Archive lectures and events

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And yes, let's do the poll, right, bear with me a second. So I'm going to try and find out sort of where you think we are in terms of our balance. So here are some questions to get you thinking about where we are now in terms of our equality across politics

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in the UK. So have a look and see what you think.

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And we'll see what the general consensus is the answers will come out during the course of the lecture.

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Let's give that little minute then Ali.

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Yeah, we'll just give people a little bit more time when got through everybody yet.

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Next we have ask them for questions. So I think it's gonna

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that we will give you all a little bit of time.

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really interesting.

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Right. I think that's kind of plateaued and I was told me to enter that.

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Yeah I think so I think most people who say, It's nuts the results there for everybody. A little recap before we press on.

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Okay. Right. Shall we move on then Ali.

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That's great. Thank you. Thanks everybody.

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Let me stop sharing that, and take that off your screens. Okay.

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So do you want me to share the presentation though.

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Please, if you would.

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And we've had a few problems people sort of be me that yeah it's been it's been the reason for us lately lately, that we are with us.

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Right. Okay, Let's share.

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Okay, we'll put the poll back up at the end when we come to the question I'm going to pose the end.

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For some people, and we'll I'm going to give you the answers as we talk. So, that's something. And I just wanted to start off with this quotation from Emily Pankhurst because it reflects some of the things that I think women have to stand against when

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we are exploring politics in it with the light with the capital P.

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in the.

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If a woman steps out of place. And very often they are regarded as militant or they are regarded as staring in some kind of way. The recent debate about the, the MP that decided to

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that she wants to do something about being a mother in Parliament and breastfed her child was that she was in some way content trying to make a point, and her response is very much well actually you know I just need to feed my child.

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And it's, it is this issue about militancy, but I'm going to focus on some women to that tonight that you may or may not be aware of. And you may not have heard of but who are, who represent some firsts within the Westminster bubble, as it were, and.

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Next slide please.

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Okay. One seconds hopefully this works.

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Fingers crossed.

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Sorry. Excuse us folks.

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I can't seem to move on the slide so here we are, hold on. Let's see if that works. there we go again.

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So I Chris movie the top being in the room where it happens, which is, which is a quote from Hamilton, where Aaron Berger talks about wanting to be the person who's in the room where it happens, because if you're in the room where it happens, you can

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dictate policy. If you're not in the room where it happens, then you can only speculate on what goes on in the rooms in the corridors of power. That's why that's the reason for the title, but let's start with the first with the first of our women, and

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perhaps in some ways the one that is the most extraordinary. So next slide please.

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So this is going to be Maxwell Maxwell was the first woman to cast a vote in an election in the UK in fact in the municipal election. And it happened in 1867 astonishingly early and it was a result of a, a clerical error.

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Lily Maxwell was a widow in her late 60s she originally from Scotland she worked in domestic service and most of her life and she'd managed to collect together enough money you know we're just to buy a shop.

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And the shop so across all crockery, and she owned the shop, which meant that she was a property owner.

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And that

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accidentally meant that she was liable to be able to have a vote in the local elections.

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And she was sent a voting card to do that.

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She was somebody who owned a house in place and culture children in med med lock which is in Manchester, where it was worth more than that which would give her the franchise.

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So, she received this card, she happened to mention this to, to some of the local canvases and they went oh no we really want to tell people about this.

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And the, the local MP for the Liberal Party at that point, and said, whenever you should you should actually do this, Jake bright, who was the liberal candidates gave him gave her support and supported by his wife, and another woman called Lydia Baker.

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They arranged for me to go to cast a vote.

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So Lily turns up with her card, and she goes to children Town Hall and she says, Look, I've got the card I can vote.

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And, and she had to do openly there was no secret, honestly, this time the reforms to voting hadn't yet happened. So she had to walk into this room, you know this this woman in her 60s to cast a vote in front of everybody.

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And, and make the point that she was entitled so to do.

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There were lots of people there there was she was escorted out of the building by what the local paper describes as a large number of persons, and other people were, were cheering you know she was entitled to vote so she voted.

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It was widely reported There's a wonderful article in New York she posted in time where they actually said, a woman actually voted.

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And it took a hostile view that she should have been prevented because she was a woman.

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Because you should have ignored her demand to vote, as you would have ignored the demand of a child or 10 years old.

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But she she she went, she went to cast a vote, and then shortly after that.

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They changed the law. The second Reform Act happened in August of 1867.

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And it changed the law, that it meant that it didn't matter how much he earned, or how much she owned as a woman she couldn't vote, and that would remain the case.

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Until, of course, the first changes in women's suffrage after the First World War. So it would be another 50 years before another another woman can have another go.

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A casting a vote. And next slide keys.

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This is one of those pop quiz questions.

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Who was the first female MP. Now, the next person I'm going to talk about is usually the person who is thought of as being the first MP, but actually the first female and he was elected in 1980 was Constance Markiewicz.

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But she didn't take her seat.

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she was in jail time.

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Following the East rising of 1916.

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She was a remarkable woman, incredibly brave incredibly driven.

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And she she she was, she was a Deb she was from a very high class society group.

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And she was.

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She and her family were quite political start with her parents, the gore boots were involved in Irish politics from a very, very early age.

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And they were there in the time of a very, the beginnings of islands most turbulent part of their history, and they were, they were to kind of raised on stories of the family.

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And

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it wasn't really until Constance moved to London, and she went to the slave School of Art, and then she got married, and that she started to become interested in politics and started by being involved in women's suffrage, and she doing the women's suffrage

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society in 1892, but it was the Irish cause that really caught her attention, so that when they, their family settled back in Dublin, and at the turn of the 20th century chatter young daughter at the time as well.

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She had a young daughter at the time as well. She joined the shin. She joined us in fame, she doing the two daughters of Ireland in 1998.

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And she developed strong bonds with the whole group and she became one of the leaders, and she was once asked by somebody if if they wanted to become involved in politics if a woman wants to become involved in politics which they do.

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And she is alleged to replied, sell your jewels and buy a gun.

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And certainly, she was not against the idea of violence to get her and, and she did take an active part in the, the action.

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The military action I suppose, of the East arising in 1960, and she was arrested along with all the other leaders and taken to come in jail.

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That because she was a woman. She was imprisoned, rather than short, and she was appalled. She wants to be treated exactly the same.

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And it, they kind of left her free to fight another day. So she was one of the supporters of one of the remaining

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people who were in charge on that day of angel of era, to help him start to create the independent island that the surprising really began with, but she's in subsequently She.

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other. I believe it was 49. Other Irish Republicans who got a seat in the 19 parliament, she refused to take a seat. And she was actually in back in jail in California.

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At the time, and she should have done.

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So she never actually took us even though she was the first elected female MP.

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Next slide please.

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Now, the next lady is the one who is normally thought of as being the first female empty. This is the amazing Nancy Astor.

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Now, Nancy Astor was, she was.

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She was one of those American Debs that came over to Britain, looking for her husband.

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And she be she had she been married before, which was one of the reasons that she needed to to come to England to look for a second husband, my first husband, interestingly enough, you know, one of the side lights of history was Robert Gould Shaw the

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second, who was the son of the Robert Gould Shaw, who features in the film glory as the white commanding officer of the first black regiment in the American Civil War.

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Two there is this history of of changing society within her family.

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And they had a son.

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They had a son. Robert Gould Shaw, a third of the the marriages are happy and they divorced in 1903, so she moved to England in the hope that she might be able to to become more settled there.

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And moving in between then she starts moving in very stochastic circles, and she very quickly met and fell in love with Waldorf Astor, and they were married within six months of their first meeting.

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They became very involved in politics and we're very much part of the lead and set.

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And she became the prominent hostess, and she assisted in.

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In her husband's a lectionary for to become MP for Plymouth, however, Ward or faster was descended an aristocrat, and when his father died and he attained title he moved up to the House of Lords, leaving a vacant seat and Nancy decided that she would

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run for the post of MP for Plymouth, because she had her own views about this.

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She was allegedly at her best during the next electioneering. She had natural wit and charm she was quick off the off the mark in terms of being able to respond to hecklers.

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She.

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She always was interested in focusing on the poor and women and children, but she also had one or two other hang ups of her own. She was a very very strong campaign against alcohol.

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She thought that prohibition should be brought in, in, in England, as it had been in America.

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And she wasn't always as a cute about current political issues.

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So she wasn't always quite on top of things in terms of what the main discussions were tendency was to be very parochial and be concerned with the needs of the people within her.

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We didn't have patch, rather than to actually take on national politics in that sense.

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But she did win the election.

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and with quite a large, a large majority, and it was very interesting that at this point Plymouth had a large number of women voters.

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And the person she defeated was Michael foots father Isaac.

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And she campaigned to raise the voting age for women to 21 that was raised that was passed in 1928. She was responsible she put a private member's bill to raise the salary of alcohol for people to the age of 18 the law that still stands in place now.

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And that was passed in 1923.

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And she spent almost two years being the only woman in Parliament.

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And she.

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She admitted in later life that this was exceptionally difficult because there was no capacity for women, you know they hadn't even thought about things like female toilets.

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And this is an agent much more modest than our own.

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But she can work tirelessly during that time to include other women and P she welcomes new women and pieces they started to come into the house of commons. And she worked very hard as well to recruit women into the civil service into the police force,

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and she end also to try and balance things in the House of Lords and she was the MP for Plymouth and settle for 26 years until she decided to be 1945 election when it was advice that she shouldn't stand.

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She is of course most well known for her and her spats with Churchill who really disliked her, and she disliked him.

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And, and I'm sure that some of you have heard many of the quotes.

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And my favourite Nancy has to quote though is and I married beneath me all women do.

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Next slide please.

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So this is Margaret Bondfield she was the first women cabinet minister. She was the Minister of Labour. In 1929, so we're talking about you know really quite early on, and she would be one of those early women that would have been welcomed by Nancy

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Astor. At the beginning of her career.

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And she was born in charge in Somerset.

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And this statue that you can see in the energy is actually in charge itself celebrating her, and she grew up in a family, who were very interested in social justice, particularly motivated by the fact that her father, who would be in a nice maker, and

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a foreman was sacked from his job. Even though there was no reason for it they just they just didn't want him anymore he'd been there too long, and they were having to pay more.

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And it happened when she was a child, affected the whole family.

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There were five children in the family.

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And she, she found it very difficult.

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But she was bright student, and she was very interested in, in what was going on and she was encouraged to debate at her school and at 14. However, she was sent off to work.

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And she got a job

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in in Brighton, working at a Draper shop.

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And it would be several years that she left that she before she saw her family again she was, was the treatment she received the Draper's in Brighton there's not bad.

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She became aware of exactly how difficult this particular role was for women.

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At this point, if you were a shop assistant, then you were expected to live in that you would expect to be on call whenever there was a customer handy.

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And that you were also responsible for things like cleaning and so on. And you were given very little time off, was usually sort of one afternoon a week in the morning to go to church on a Sunday, which of course was the reason that she didn't get to

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see a family because the family being in Somerset and she being in Brighton and afternoon off was not going to be able to get her home and back in order to see her family.

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She really really began to see how the daily grind of what was going on with white was it was kind of pushing these women down, lots of women that she met with just desperate to get married.

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There's one way out of working in the shop that they had, because they couldn't work in shop when once you were married, and it you know they would have accepted anything, and they have no opportunity, no time or energy to pursue any other interests outside

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outside work. So, you know, organizations like the WPA, which would have been available to these women in order to improve their education. They couldn't take it up, they didn't have time, they didn't have the energy.

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And so she, She started to become involved with a woman called Louise Martin go, and between them. And she moved to London, and they set up what became the shop assistant union District Council, and she was subsequently asked to to investigate the conditions

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under which these women working.

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So at the age of 25 she became the expert on the position of women who working in the drapery trade.

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And by the age of 30 she was presenting her findings on parliamentary committees, she was extremely well known in that field. And eventually, somebody said, like you know if you're doing all this work you ought to be thinking about, considering becoming

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an MP, she resisted it for quite a long time because she was so very much involved in developing organizations like the willing to lay lay the league.

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And then she was also the chair of the adult suffrage society because she believed in that that everybody should have a vote.

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So eventually it she was persuaded to stand as a labour candidate for Northampton, and after three attempts, she got her got this post as MP for Northampton, in 1923, which meant that she became as I said she became one of these first female in peace

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that Welcome binance Yes, even though she was on the other side of the house, and she continued to campaign for the rights of all women

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in 1924, very shortly after she arrived in in Parliament, and she became she was appointed a Secretary to the Minister for labor by Stanley Baldwin, after following the resignation of bond in law.

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And it was very short lived because she then subsequently lost her seat in, in 1931.

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But when she regained her seat in 1929 Ramsey McDonald then made her Minister for labour, which was the first time that a woman had been made a British cabinet minister.

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And it was on the put on the back of all this experience she had turned investigating the lives and working practices of women in, in, in the draping trade, because she also found out a great deal about the way that working conditions work for an awful

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lot of other organizations in that process.

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She was unfortunate. In that the timing was bad.

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And when it came to the next election in 1931. She lost her seat, because she had been a very unpopular Minister for labour.

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Because in being Minister for labour in the period between 1921 and 1939 meant that she was trying to be a minister for labour. During the Great for the beginning of the Great Depression.

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And she was having to take some difficult decisions in order to try and keep the labour force of flight, one of which was that she had a ruling where certain married women whose husbands were any certain amounts of money.

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We're going to have

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their benefits. Cut.

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This was extremely unpopular and standard Lee and Margaret got blamed for it. And it meant that she lost her seat, and she never re entered politics, partly because she then suffered ill health.

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And while she, she lived on for a good few more years after that. She never took part in any other policy politicking again.

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And it seems a shame to have lost somebody who was so, so very involved in so very true. So very committed to the rights of the working poor and. Next slide please.

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And this is how you say to who was the first female whip and she was MP for Stoke on Trent.

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And she was MP for Stoke on Trent. She was appointed in 1953, she was, she started out as a teacher, she trained at Hanley High School, and to treat Teacher Training College.

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So those of you in the middle man since this is our Black Country representative.

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And she was a national organizer for the CO operative society and that's how she started becoming involved in in politics, and she was very involved with them to the point that to this day, they hold a hurry at slate and Memorial Lecture.

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In July, in her name and where they are consider social issues.

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And her hope political focus was very much on the idea of supporting women, because by this time by the time we get to 1953.

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Women are very much part of the workforce, but they are not equally paid. They are not equally treated there are still some issues with not being able to work after you're married.

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She was appointed in a by election that she then stayed as the MP for Stoke on Trent until 1966.

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And in the latter stages of her life 1964 she was a government with, with the formal title of Lord and Treasury, and she's the first woman to actually hold that post and to be responsible for looking after the party and making sure that everybody was

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doing exactly as they should be.

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Um. Next slide please.

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And many of you will know this lady and she's Betty Boothroyd.

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People were taken on at the gates, as it were, in the same way as the doctors were taken on for the day so it meant that things were really really unbalanced.

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So, Betty was sent out to work as soon as she ever could.

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She started out as a shop assistant she learned type. And then at the age of 1617. She famously joined the tiller girls.

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And she unfortunately has a very short period in her life, because while she was performing at the London Palladium, and she stood on a nail and got a foot infection.

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And that meant that she was active again because she will recovery time was much longer than they were willing to keep her place open.

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So she then started working for a variety of MPs as an assistant, and she worked for example for Barbara Castle, who did something to encourage her ambitions to be in politics.

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She worked for two years in America, she where she was part of the campaign to nominate and subsequently elect and JFK.

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And she served as an assistant to one of the US representatives, until she returned to India in 1962.

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She then went back to working for a number of MPs, She contested a seat on Hammersmith her Council.

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And then eventually, after various attempts to get into. into parliament. She was appointed as the labour candidate for West Bromwich in 1973.

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In 1974 she followed and preview previous ladies ambitions by becoming a wit.

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And she was appointed to a number of select committees, including the Committee on Foreign Affairs.

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She was also on the speakers panel, and she retained that position until 1987 when she was appointed to the speaker is assistant speaker of the house.

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When the weather all the vent Speaker of the House stepped down in 1992.

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Betsy Boothroyd was elected to his, his post, but it was contested by an MP, my uncle john Brooke. So it was put to the vote and Betty got an overwhelming majority of the members of parliament in the House of Commons, to become the first Female Speaker

00:29:56.000 --> 00:29:57.000
of the House.

00:29:57.000 --> 00:30:12.000
She went a long way to trying to break down some of the traditional roles as the speaker, refusing for example to wear that traditional week she was quite happy to wear the robe, that she didn't want to whether we use it for the head, and she would finish

00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:18.000
quite right and bonus question, the question time with her own inimitable styles i right times up.

00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:37.000
And she was, she was, you know, known to be a firm speaker, which was exactly what was needed that she was sometimes a little bit irreverent towards the the the pomposity that she experienced, and eventually she retired from being speaker in 2000, and

00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:41.000
it's now a member of the House of Lords.

00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:58.000
And you may remember that there was a bit of a scandal about Betty Boothroyd that they were trying to suggest that she had in some ways, been involved in some kind of sexual impropriety.

00:30:58.000 --> 00:31:07.000
It turned out that what it happened was that she'd actually missed a training session on sex on safeguarding.

00:31:07.000 --> 00:31:22.000
And it just just because she'd been too busy, and that you do kind of gone down as a black mark on her record. And at the time, people were looking for really for a reason to, to find her through, she published her autobiography into the 2001.

00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:28.000
And if you're into lively anecdote then it's not a bad read.

00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:30.000
Next slide please.

00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:35.000
Now there are a range of women that I could have talked about and I chose not to.

00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:51.000
But these are some other names that you might know, and who are all very important to the way that politics and women in politics have developed, Barbara cast and of course being one of the most significant to remarkable and probably deserves a tool called

00:31:51.000 --> 00:32:00.000
so surely Williams and be paying 10 minutes. Garrett force it of course you start you know standing Westminster square.

00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:13.000
The amazing an extraordinary Mary Washington. And of course we cannot forget our first woman Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, and not the first in the world, but our first.

00:32:13.000 --> 00:32:15.000
Next slide please.

00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:26.000
Some conscious of time. So, this is, this is where we start answering the questions that that we get from the beginning so here is the current state of affairs with the number of seats.

00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:43.000
When by women in the different in the different houses that exist within. Great Britain's politics will leave you with that for a second

00:32:43.000 --> 00:32:57.000
of the hundred and 40 MPs elected for the first time in 2019 41% were women.

00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:14.000
and the House of Lords has almost the same equivalent of a female peers, 223, but they represent a much smaller proportion. So there are 709 789.

00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:26.000
Members of the House floored with only 200 223 of them the female.

00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:38.000
The whilst, more than half our current MPs belong to the Conservative Party, and they have the lowest number of female MPs within that group.

00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:43.000
24% of their MPs,

00:33:43.000 --> 00:33:57.000
and Labour has always traditionally had the largest number.

00:33:57.000 --> 00:34:10.000
any nonsense. One of the other questions. It wasn't until 1987 that women first exceeded 5% of the MPs that was sitting in Parliament.

00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:15.000
Can I the next slide piece.

00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:24.000
So, I didn't forget local politics. So these are the numbers of women councillors across the country.

00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:35.000
And I find it particularly interesting that the elected members, and the metro Metropolitan mess so people you know like Manchester candy the.

00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:46.000
All of the men, and only four of the elective mares across England and Wales are women at the 16.

00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:54.000
So there's still a lot of work to be done, local politics level and of course that may well be the reason why things are a bit slower, the top of the tree.

00:34:54.000 --> 00:35:10.000
Because, as you've seen from some of the women that I've been talking about their first experiences were in local politics, and they've had the experience of being able to make a difference, locally and then they think about moving on to the next level.

00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:13.000
When the numbers are so low.

00:35:13.000 --> 00:35:28.000
Then, you know you can understand why that might be a challenge, and one in five council needs is being women, that's, That's disturbing statistic.

00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:32.000
We see the next slide please.

00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:40.000
So just to kind of give you a picture, across this is across the world. So at the moment.

00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:51.000
This is based on you and data, and the women in executive government decision so women is heads of state across the countries at the rate we're currently get going.

00:35:51.000 --> 00:36:03.000
It's going to be 130 years before heads of states have parity in gender politics across the world.

00:36:03.000 --> 00:36:20.000
And in terms of the women in cabinets. We have an annual increase of point five to a percentage point to get gender parity, we won't get that until 2077.

00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:24.000
Next slide please.

00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:38.000
So, one of my other questions was, which which country has the largest number of female on it sure wonder astonishing enough which has had more than half over 60% of its employees or female.

00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:41.000
And Jeff Japan likes well behind.

00:36:41.000 --> 00:36:56.000
You can see we're not doing so badly. But there are other countries that are doing better than we're.

00:36:56.000 --> 00:37:03.000
And next, and I think last slide.

00:37:03.000 --> 00:37:19.000
So, I'm going to leave you with a question for us to discuss with our remaining time together is, in your opinion, and I've got a nice big group of people to ask is What do you think is the one change that needs to happen by 2028, to really get women's

00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:27.000
representation. Up in the UK, or maybe internationally. I'm mostly interested in the UK but I'm quite happy.

00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:32.000
If anybody's got an international solutions to step forward.

00:37:32.000 --> 00:37:40.000
And that's the question I'm posing for you, and Fiona there was some people I believe who said that they wanted to have another look at their poll result what results.

00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:46.000
Yeah, to put those up can do not right this second but we've okay.

00:37:46.000 --> 00:37:52.000
There was one more thing. Yeah. Um, so those of you who are really interested.

00:37:52.000 --> 00:37:55.000
And there is.

00:37:55.000 --> 00:37:58.000
Do you want to put that slide up.

00:37:58.000 --> 00:38:01.000
Oh sorry there's my courses I forgotten about this.

00:38:01.000 --> 00:38:18.000
Thank you interested in hearing me talk about other things. As you can see I have a wide range of interests, so I just started this week, a series of talks and interviews, I try and be interactive with this on Hamlet.

00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:22.000
And so it's only the only starts this week so.

00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:26.000
And we don't have a session next week so if you want to catch up there's still time.

00:38:26.000 --> 00:38:40.000
I'm doing history of musical theatre, both in the future and on film, which starts in April. And I'm doing history of the life and times of Alexi Sawyer, who was a Victorian celebrity chef.

00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:50.000
And I'm doing some other in person courses in Salisbury and Warminster Dempster over the next few, few weeks.

00:38:50.000 --> 00:39:08.000
But if you are interested in finding out more about the situation with women in politics in the UK, and they are British Council produced a report, which was based on the position we were in 100 years after winning one the vote so it was published in

00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:17.000
1980, in 1980, in 2018, but it's still very relevant and it's an interesting read this is the link to it.

00:39:17.000 --> 00:39:27.000
If anybody is interested in finding out a little bit more about it and some of the statistics that I've got were taken from that particular document.

00:39:27.000 --> 00:39:36.000
Yeah. The link to this is posted up and alongside the recording of the lecture on the members area of the website once it's really, so.

00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:47.000
Okay, I'm going to stop shooting no alley. Brilliant. Thank you very much for helping out with that. Yeah.

00:39:47.000 --> 00:40:03.000
Right. Okay, now let me get back to my chats and get that open. And what we'll do is we'll put the best thing is to kind of have a mix of questions that people have asked, and then I can read out some of the comments that people have said, and in relation

00:40:03.000 --> 00:40:08.000
to the question that yeah that'd be lovely Thank you. I'm really interested in what people think.

00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:12.000
Right. Okay, let me go forward bear with me people.

00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:14.000
Right.

00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:18.000
Right. This is a question, and from Louisa.

00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:28.000
She thought that single female rip peers but able to vote and municipal elections from 1869 onwards.

00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:40.000
Yeah, there was a period, there was a period when they were at that loophole was closed by the format.

00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:51.000
And so that even though they were ratepayers, you had to have you had to have a man on the documents for the rate pain would be able to do that.

00:40:51.000 --> 00:41:06.000
It was one of those things that that time that tail end of the Victorian period. There was an awful lot of acts that were passed against women having control over their own destinies.

00:41:06.000 --> 00:41:19.000
And the voting was part of that, I mean things like the divorce laws were being investigated then the, the law about who was responsible for children.

00:41:19.000 --> 00:41:34.000
That was all involved in that as well. So that was, that was part of that difficult period, and Lily Maxwell story is it is it is an interesting one because what she did was she kind of slid under the wire.

00:41:34.000 --> 00:41:36.000
They actually passed the law.

00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:45.000
At the time she voted that they had said within the law that they were going to let the current situation stand until the end of the year.

00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:53.000
And she happened in she just happened to get there before the end of the year.

00:41:53.000 --> 00:41:59.000
Right, what we got. Next question from Anne Marie.

00:41:59.000 --> 00:42:17.000
What we're books is grounds for the pausing the election of, Betty Boothroyd speaker of the host, because she was a woman that we've never had a Female Speaker, and he john Brooks felt that a woman couldn't control the house of parliament, because anybody

00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:25.000
who's ever watched Parliament life will know that it's a pretty rough and ready face, and he believed that a woman wouldn't be able to do that.

00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:31.000
And one of the things he said was he thought she would cry.

00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:34.000
Which sounds absurd, particularly if you ever heard.

00:42:34.000 --> 00:42:54.000
Mrs Boothroyd in action or lady Boothroyd does she know it's, but certainly that was one of his reasons. He was she was too delicate a person to be able to, to, to stand the rough and tumble of being speaker and really turned out that we did not at all.

00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:56.000
Yeah.

00:42:56.000 --> 00:42:59.000
Another question from Ana.

00:42:59.000 --> 00:43:06.000
Why do you think that the conservatives have had to female pm.

00:43:06.000 --> 00:43:11.000
But labour hasn't even had a female leader.

00:43:11.000 --> 00:43:15.000
Well, I think.

00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:31.000
I think part of that is, is of course is that, Margaret Thatcher was remarkably politician of our own of her own right and I think one of the difficult things for those of us who are interested in this is the fact that she, she was actually not great

00:43:31.000 --> 00:43:43.000
for other women in her role she didn't bring other women own you know she had an opportunity perhaps to, to bring women into a cabinet and her cabinet were all male, she appointed men.

00:43:43.000 --> 00:44:02.000
So she didn't she didn't actually do much for improving things. And of course, Theresa May kind of got in on a technicality as it were, and subsequently lost her seed, why they have never actually managed it I'm not entirely sure I think it's, I think

00:44:02.000 --> 00:44:05.000
it may well be the collision of history.

00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:19.000
You know they they've, they've struggled in recently in recent years, to have any strong leadership, and they've not actually look to the women in their party to to do the business.

00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:28.000
I think they, they, they've, they've struggled in all kinds of ways to get the answer that they need, and then perhaps haven't looked at their female employees.

00:44:28.000 --> 00:44:31.000
I think there are women coming through.

00:44:31.000 --> 00:44:39.000
I think it won't be very long before we see our first labor female prime minister because I think they are there.

00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:48.000
And there's there's certainly some very strongly minded women coming through, and it will be very interesting to see how that develops over the next few years.

00:44:48.000 --> 00:45:06.000
And we've got quite a few comments, and answers and lovely. So on your question I'll read some of them, and Julie saying social attitudes towards women need to change first and then then she needs to be addressed by weight of society before things will

00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:07.000
And familia need to close the men on the public schools to get a change in politics parliament. That's an interesting one Parliament's more like the eastern debating society scoring points, then discussing serious issues.

00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:21.000
Yep.

00:45:21.000 --> 00:45:32.000
And from Jenny, and to get more women involved we need to change the culture, move towards grown ups, collaborating rather than play and petty point scoring.

00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:44.000
Yeah, that's true. there's there's also quite a lot of debate debate, and the parliamentary system we have the first past the post system doesn't favour and minorities of any kind.

00:45:44.000 --> 00:45:59.000
Both women, and, of course, ethnic, and ethnic minorities disabled minorities LGBT to know all of those kinds of minorities are not served by the current part first pass the new system that we have.

00:45:59.000 --> 00:46:09.000
And of course in Scotland, we have a different system with Yes, a proportional representation or system, which, yes.

00:46:09.000 --> 00:46:23.000
Well, more representative. So, okay, from Miranda. I think we need to get girls interested from a very early age that ambitions are already stifled in primary school.

00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:41.000
That's interesting. You know, I can see why, why, why that happens in it. there's, there's a socialization, I think, as well, you know, there's the there's things going on, you know, a woman who is outspoken is often referred is often regarded as aggressive,

00:46:41.000 --> 00:46:54.000
where a man might be described as assertive, and that's when you, when you when your rule is that you've got, you know, in order to make progress in in the political arena.

00:46:54.000 --> 00:47:00.000
That is that you've got to be aggressive you've got to be a bit tough, you've got to be an unspoken.

00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:10.000
And then, I think it's very difficult for women to overcome, you know for girls to overcome that, to go out and that's not how I want to be labelled.

00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:20.000
You know we have very good examples of women who are willing to do that, but they are also, you know, they feel that like they're in the minority.

00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:33.000
And it's more comments about actually you know the timing of business within the House of Commons being in issues well terms of, you know, it's not an on a nine to five basis, like another job might be.

00:47:33.000 --> 00:47:48.000
Yeah, you know, healthcare provision for women, you know, the timings of meetings, there's a lot of business that goes on evenings which might not necessarily be conducive to women who have children, that kind of thing.

00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:53.000
I mean, there has been there have been attempts to change there's no longer all night sittings.

00:47:53.000 --> 00:48:03.000
For example, which would, which, you know, made life impossible for women, but they also do need there is also a need to look at the provision of child care.

00:48:03.000 --> 00:48:13.000
I mean that was one of the issues about the MP within the breastfeeding scenario is that, you know, it's a perfectly natural thing that needed to be done.

00:48:13.000 --> 00:48:27.000
And there but there is no where there was no were provided for her to do it. And if somebody is running conferences, it's one of the things that I've always put into place that we you know we have a room designated for women who need to do that.

00:48:27.000 --> 00:48:33.000
Yeah, even if men want to quiet space they can have it too but you know you need to just think about these things.

00:48:33.000 --> 00:48:37.000
Yeah, because it's a challenge.

00:48:37.000 --> 00:48:51.000
Yeah. And this from, Angela, and we need to get more women on local councils, which was one of the. Yeah, it's you were making. And I, she is a councillor and it's only 15 councillors and just fiber women.

00:48:51.000 --> 00:48:59.000
Yeah, again, there's that childcare issue again from juice and the dinosaurs packing.

00:48:59.000 --> 00:49:02.000
Thanks, Jay.

00:49:02.000 --> 00:49:05.000
And I'm in school curriculum.

00:49:05.000 --> 00:49:07.000
From Anita.

00:49:07.000 --> 00:49:10.000
Yeah.

00:49:10.000 --> 00:49:25.000
Yeah, I mean we there's a there is discussion about citizenship in schools, but I mean, as, as somebody who works in schools, I will also tell you I'm not very sure that we've never been trained, there's nobody out there who knows how to deliver it.

00:49:25.000 --> 00:49:38.000
You know, we get packages from various organizations say well this is what you should do. But in order for us to get a good grip on it. What you need is somebody who really knows what they're doing, as opposed to somebody who's been given a book entitled

00:49:38.000 --> 00:49:53.000
to have a go at it. I know that we don't teach subjects we teach children, but things like this are quite complicated. And if there is going to be changed their needs to be more positive sport.

00:49:53.000 --> 00:49:57.000
What else do we have here.

00:49:57.000 --> 00:50:14.000
Oh, I think that must have some more comments. Okay, on an interesting one from Patrick, and the public violence is proportional electoral system but have never had a female pm.

00:50:14.000 --> 00:50:16.000
had female president so have.

00:50:16.000 --> 00:50:23.000
They have. Yeah, interesting though.

00:50:23.000 --> 00:50:35.000
This is a question actually from Jennifer. What do you think of the women's equality party and have to say that's not when they've heard of absolutely yeah it's Sandy toxics party.

00:50:35.000 --> 00:50:40.000
I think it's I think it's a.

00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:47.000
I think it's the kind of thing that we might need for a while. I think somebody.

00:50:47.000 --> 00:50:59.000
It's a little bit like thinking about suffragettes. The suffragettes came together as a stronger group of women to get things done. And I think the women's equality party has kind of a list of things that they want to get done and I suspect that once

00:50:59.000 --> 00:51:01.000
those things are done.

00:51:01.000 --> 00:51:08.000
They will disappear. They'll be separate so suddenly sublimated into another organization.

00:51:08.000 --> 00:51:12.000
And

00:51:12.000 --> 00:51:14.000
if we are in a position.

00:51:14.000 --> 00:51:20.000
And I think we are where we need to speak as great.

00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:33.000
Then, such an organization is required. What I think he's going to be challenging is getting it one more widely recognized. I mean, I noticed somebody mentioned, Caroline Lucas.

00:51:33.000 --> 00:51:37.000
And, you know.

00:51:37.000 --> 00:51:42.000
Yeah, excellent party in a party, we should be taking notice of it for all of these time.

00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:52.000
That very very small numbers, you need more people. And it's like that wonderful unison that that is land and the bear. If you've seen it.

00:51:52.000 --> 00:51:58.000
Get out of the way and the bear doesn't hear him because he's only one little tiny voice, but when everybody shows together.

00:51:58.000 --> 00:52:02.000
There has to move. And it's a bit like that.

00:52:02.000 --> 00:52:21.000
Yeah, comment from coddle in unison, and unite the unions have female general secretaries yeah that's that's that's a brilliant move because as much as anything else, and they are also the kind of kind of groups that produce entities.

00:52:21.000 --> 00:52:40.000
to the unions, and that's that's a very positive situation, and it also says something about the way that that working is being thought off now, as well, because I'm in unison must have must be pretty much more female members than males because of the

00:52:40.000 --> 00:52:44.000
nature of the work that they're supporting. Yeah.

00:52:44.000 --> 00:52:59.000
And another comment here from Miranda. She thinks that his book, which is good, and women playing football is no, and that's very true. That's true. And her girls never got to play at school, I didn't.

00:52:59.000 --> 00:53:03.000
I'm not even a play time.

00:53:03.000 --> 00:53:12.000
When I was at school, certainly the sports that we did as girls were quite different from what the boys that sometimes join, but.

00:53:12.000 --> 00:53:15.000
And, yeah, it's quite interesting.

00:53:15.000 --> 00:53:22.000
Yeah, I mean we have this situation that my school where the boys did.

00:53:22.000 --> 00:53:31.000
They had a unit number of two terms of self defence and he goes high country dancing.

00:53:31.000 --> 00:53:37.000
So if anybody attacks me I have to do I have to get them with my Miller.

00:53:37.000 --> 00:53:42.000
The boys might have liked to do the country dancing as well. Exactly, so.

00:53:42.000 --> 00:53:43.000
Okay.

00:53:43.000 --> 00:53:55.000
And right what we'll do is I'm going to attempt, I can share those poor results before I go on to Michael at the end of the lecture, let me see if I can do it.

00:53:55.000 --> 00:54:07.000
And, in fact, yes, I think I can have the appeared on the screen if they have no I think people you might need to scroll down to see all the results but I'll just leave that up on there for a little minute.

00:54:07.000 --> 00:54:25.000
And I know that was one of you in particular, to be able to see those.

00:54:25.000 --> 00:54:43.000
Well, we're looking at that actually is one final question that's come in from. I don't know whether this is, you'll be what you'll be able to answer but she's asking, What is your take on making misogyny a hate crime, or how do we make sure that happens.

00:54:43.000 --> 00:55:03.000
That might be slightly off topic but i don't know if i mean i got some that I, personally, and this is, I think this is the only way I can speak about this nice I am I am concerned about some elements of the whole idea of creating legislation against

00:55:03.000 --> 00:55:16.000
certain sorts of hate crime, because it's not because I don't agree with the idea of criminalizing some elements of this. I am concerned about how it can be used.

00:55:16.000 --> 00:55:19.000
You know, we tell we.

00:55:19.000 --> 00:55:34.000
What does it mean, how do you define it as being something that is so often image misogynistic that we are going to legislate against it.

00:55:34.000 --> 00:55:40.000
I would rather go at it from the point of view of educating against it.

00:55:40.000 --> 00:55:53.000
You know, let's let's eradicate some expressions of speech let's, let's do away with man up, let let's do away with. Yeah, take it like a man.

00:55:53.000 --> 00:55:56.000
Oh, you throw like a girl.

00:55:56.000 --> 00:56:03.000
Let's do away with those let's start with those because those are misogynistic statements, but I'm not, I don't want anybody arrested for that.

00:56:03.000 --> 00:56:08.000
What I do want is for somebody to say no, that's not the way we talk about that.

00:00:06.000 --> 00:00:12.000
Okay. All right. Good evening everybody. I hope you can all hear me. Okay.

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Wherever you are, greetings and it's still a sunny knowledge at the moment very wet this morning. And we had a tremendous hailstorm halfway through the afternoon but the moment it's quite a pleasant Sunday evening

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so welcome from me and greetings from the East of England.

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And so, I do have a particular interest in Raymond Williams which has been there for all best part of 20 years or so and so Hi I'm a founder trustee of the Raymond Williams foundation.

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And

00:00:54.000 --> 00:01:10.000
it's not simply a matter of an interest in Raymond Williams that I have. But I found him very influential in the way that I approach my teaching, and my experiences.

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And this group that does this body that I'm a trustee of the raven Williams foundation.

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Before the pandemic, we would have regular residential weekends, every year.

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maybe we've had guests speakers talking to us about.

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And we will spend the small groups and we will discuss them between us, and then report back to the main session.

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And I found after a couple of years that that this this began to influence to a very large extent, how I approach my own teaching.

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So as a web a tutor.

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What I like to do is to use a lot of discussion.

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So if I'm teaching face to face.

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If I'm in a big enough room without necessarily telling the students what I'm doing. I might split the room into different groups or put groups of chairs out so that at some point I can say what okay you're going to that group you're, and I want you to

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discuss amongst yourselves, this because I don't want people just listening to me for a whole 90 minutes so I want people to talk to each other.

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And it's been very interesting over the last you know two years using zoom.

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That of course now I'm not just talking to people in Norwich but I got people from all over the country.

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In front of me. So I can split you I'm going to do this tonight, by the way, but I could split you into breakout rooms and get you talking to each other.

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So, to me, this is a very important aspect of the way that the WVA were and indeed adult education or to work.

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And so I'm just introducing this because this is something which has very much come out of my studying of Raymond Williams and being involved with other people who actually studied or supervised by Raymond Williams himself.

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So it's all part of this ongoing process so it's actually a very important piece of my attitude to teach it.

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And I'll come back to say a bit more about this a little bit later on but I suppose, first of all, I should say.

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Why, Raymond Williams.

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And it's.

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It is sometimes slightly alarming in that the people that I am familiar with and the people I work with and so on and other members of the foundation.

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We're all very familiar with Raymond Williams.

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And when I was doing my, my first degree I hadn't have a tutor who was very interested in my moon so I've actually been familiar with him since 19 7071.

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And so we can all talk to each other about this person, Raymond Williams, and we know what we're talking about. I hope.

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But very often, you know I can mention his name to other people, and they sort of look at me a bit of scars and say, No here snooker player. And that's one of the comments I have recently.

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So, to some extent I feel as if I have to go back to basics, sometime to explain just to run with Williams walls.

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Now, the reason that I've been talking about him so much over the last year, is that he was born in July of 1921. So last year. We were celebrating his centenary, and there were lots of activities going on around it.

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Say I'm involved with the red moons Foundation, we completely revised our website for the centurion rates are celebrated.

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And it's not finished.

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There are still various activities carrying on until April of this year but that was the sort of stimulus to do a lot of extra work on him.

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So on the one hand it's been a matter of trying to explain to people who just who he was.

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But also, and of course in the sense of this evening, I haven't got that much time to tell you everything about him whatsoever. But I'm going to give a bit of a plug, at the end to a course, who was running about Robin Williams, but it's also this question

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of who he wants.

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And there are an awful lot of very interesting points about Raymond would say have an interesting life anyway.

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But he was one of the most significant figures in what became known as the new left in Britain in the 1950s 1960s and 70s that into the 1970s.

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And he came from a background which was strongly socialist he did become very briefly involved with the Communist Party in Great Britain.

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Although I would say he was always a bit of a semi detached a member of the Communist Party.

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But after the Second World War, as you get into the 50s and 60s. He was very much one of the the leading figures.

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Within this field that included people like Stuart Hall Eric Hobsbawm Edward Thompson and some.

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He was part of that and he became one of the most influential thinkers and writers within that New Left movement as it became known.

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He was a very prolific thinker, and writer, but use a huge number of works, which is quite difficult for me to deal with in, in many ways, because I even in a five week course.

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I can't cover everything that he talked about, and everything. he dealt with there's almost too much information there.

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But he was enormously influential figure.

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And he was often regarded as being the father of what became known as cultural studies.

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Now this point if you, you know, think, Oh, good. And another Disney type courses that you have. The way I first got involved with rainbow warriors was was through someone who has studied with him.

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day or of idea of cultural studies. Now, I'm going to go on a bit later on to explain a little bit of what I mean about cultural studies and what culture meant to Raymond Williams because it's a very very significant part of his thinking, and it's a very

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important part of his thinking, but I'll come back to that little bit later on. And he was also an extraordinarily prescient writer as well he could very often see what he thought would trends developing within society and within politics, especially

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he was outline, sometimes he would warn you about, and to a surprising degree, some of those things have come to pass that he was warnings about but again, I'm going to come back to that a little bit later on.

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But to begin with, I'm going to show you some illustrations shortly.

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And in many ways. Well, the most important things about Robbie Williams was that he was born in Wales in the border country.

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He was born in a small village called Pandy, which is about six, seven miles north of Abergavenny in the shadow of the black mountains, so not far away from the Welsh valance avail Murtha that area, not too far away from the Brecon Beacons either not too

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far away from Hereford on the English side, but that area of the border country was very, very important to him, and he would go on, eventually to write five novels, so he's not just a theoretician, he's not just a political philosopher, he always wanted

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to be a writer of fiction and indeed his life was based around English literature in many ways.

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But he wrote five novels, and they are all set in that area around the black mountains, very very significant to him. He always maintained during his life that his background was very important.

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And he came from a very working class background his father was signalman for Great Western our at the local station. His mother was a domestic worker, in effect, but he always said that he got his sense of community from living in this small Welsh village.

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And more importantly, he got a sense of solidarity from it.

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Now he was born in 1921, so he was only five years old when the general strike happened.

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His father, as a railway signal one, and an active trade you need to stand a moderate support of the Labour Party was very heavily involved with the general strike.

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And of course South Wales, especially the values you know it was an area.

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Very very strongly affected by the general strike of 1926 so what it was was aware of this, as he was growing up and he always took this with him.

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And he always maintained that it was his background, and that area, which actually developed, most of his adult thinking. And suddenly, His socialism came from that background.

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I would love to ask me this point if you've got any questions.

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We'll keep them for for later.

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So his backgrounds in the wash borders is hugely important to him and he sees constantly referring to him as he was growing up, he was regarded as quite a brilliant scholar, coming from that sort of backgrounds, and he won a county scholarship to go to

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the grammar school in Abergavenny while he was there, he excelled in everything you did he was, he was very keen sportsman as well and from there.

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He won a national scholarship to go to Cambridge to study English literature as he's growing up in the 1930s, and at that point he's very much a pacifist.

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And he's involved with the peace pledge union. And in the August of 1937. He is sent by the, the junior branch of the peace pleasure to attend an international conference in Geneva.

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And this was looking at you know the rise of fascism and what was happening in Europe.

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So he attended as a delegate this youth conference in Geneva on the way back returning to England he managed in Paris.

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to find enough time to get off the train.

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And to attend the International Exhibition that was being held in Paris, of that time. This is the international International Exhibition that featured Guernica the painted by Picasso, that everyone is familiar with.

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He doesn't make any reference to whether he went to the Spanish privileged to see it or not. But the one thing he did make sure he did was to visit the Soviet Pavilion.

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And when he was there, he bought himself a copy of the Communist Manifesto. And so for the first time at the age of 16. He started reading about marks and angles and getting involved in that sort of aspect.

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So, in October 1939 he wants to stay scholarship to attend Trinity College, Cambridge to study English. Now, I haven't got to that point I'm not just going to come out, briefly, and show you a few illustrations, if I may.

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Now, I have some issues with the way that I can show my presentations. So I'm using this particular format, and I hope you can all see it. Okay. That's the first slide just to remind you, who we all are.

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And we will come back to that again. Now, this is a very well known portraits of Raymond Williams taken in the 1970s.

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is to make hope possible, rather than despair convincing bear that in mind so I'm going to come back to that in just a moment. Now, I hope you can all see this nice and clear.

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There are relatively speaking, very few illustrations of whims himself. They tend to always show me to check shirt and smoking a pipe read lots of books behind him but you very quickly realized that there aren't a great many different illustrations on

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this another one from slightly later in his life so you get an idea, at least at this point of what he looked like. Now, I hope you can see this well enough because I thought it was important to show you and give you a little social of the areas in which

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he was brought up now. Handy I hope you can see my cursor moving here, handy. The village he was brought up it is here, and is just about six miles up the valley from our government.

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OK, so the English border is about 10 miles. This way to the right, to the east, with Herefords just off at Brecon and the Brecon Beacons is just off the picture up here, the values of avail mother Ted Ville are just down here to the bottom left, but

00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:23.000
here are the black mountains and he often refers to living in the shadow of the black mountains. So this is the border country that he grew up in, and was very important to him, and was enormously influential on his later think if we need to, we can always

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And if we need to, we can always come back to some of these slides at the end, I hope we've got time. I put this one in, it's just Raymond Williams in his teenage years, We are trying at Pandora station in the mid 1930s.

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This is significant, say his his father was a railway signal for the Great Western Railway, and he had a very great affection for his father nothing his father went through.

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And when he was a teenager.

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And he thought that, probably, this is what he was going to do. He had no ideas of going into academia or anything that probably he would he would follow his father into a job on the runways that was sort of what was expected and you know what he anticipated

00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:22.000
by here is 1939, ready to actually go off to Cambridge, having won this scholarship to Trinity College,

00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:41.000
he met his wife, joy, while he was an undergraduate at Cambridge, they got married in 1942. During the war, and this is them with their family Murdock, the youngest one in the middle of the melon, and a Darren in front of them.

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Very very well.

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Notice, of course. So this was actually they use this photo for a Christmas card in 1951, as you can see at the bottom. So this was his home life. That was his family.

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This is him addressing a meeting in the early 1960s. Now I'm pretty certain that this was a cnd meeting. I'm not 100% sure about it but I am pretty certain, it is.

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But yeah, he was a very well known figure on the left, he was very active in cnd amongst other things, so I think by the time you get to that periods of the 96 is this this would have been a pretty typical picture of Raymond Williams addressing a meeting.

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This is him at Cambridge. Nice Nice one, I will say a bit more about with Frank commodes literary critic commentator fellow member of the Communist Party who then left in much the same way that the Williams has.

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And so this is just to I'll just put this in just to show that this is what he was, he was doing during this period.

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Okay, Now that's a blank one I'm going to come out I've got one more leverage I'm going to show you at the end.

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So now I would love to say at this point or ask you. Have you got any comments or questions but if you have, please post them in chat. And then we'll get back to you at the end.

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Now you're going to have to excuse me for one second because I'm up in my attic here is getting dark so I've got to put the light on.

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Right. Hopefully that's the human touch that comes in to these things.

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Okay, so he's had this so very brilliant academic career as a teenager when he goes up to Cambridge.

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And he becomes a member of the Communist Party. Yeah, That was the way to go at the time as were all his friends were going.

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He has very little to say in the 1930s about for instance what he thought about the Spanish Civil War. And what was happening there.

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But by the time he is undergraduate, Cambridge. That is the way that has gotten has been very influenced by reading the Communist Manifesto.

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There's a wonderful essay that he wrote a couple of decades later called. You're a Marxist aren't you, and he answers that question.

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And he says, in that essay that well, sort of, but not fully.

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He says that the person who had the most influence upon his thinking was undoubtedly Karl Marx, but he never saw himself as a dogmatic Marxist.

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He was a member of the Communist Party.

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Briefly, but he was always something of describing as a fellow traveller but someone who was sort of a semi detached member of that community.

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Certainly as an undergraduate and then later, when he did, enter, academia himself.

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Yes, I mean, a very large number of his colleagues were Communist Party members, save his clothes for Eric Hobsbawm AP Thompson's do a whole song.

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But he was always sort of semi detached in the sense that he could be quite critical, certainly of dogmatic Marxism.

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And in this essay he wrote your Marxist, aren't you, he answers that by saying that he's not sure if he is or not, but he wants to make it quite clear that he is very happy to have been influenced by that line of thinking.

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And he is very happy to be regarded as a member of the Marxist tradition that carries on that questioning of society what it's about proposing different ideas and different approach in some.

00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:20.000
So that's the way that he sort of couches, his views. So, not a dogmatic Marxist at all, and I'm gonna come back so something a bit more about that in the moment.

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The reason I say he was never a full time member of the Communist Party was that in July of 1940, having served and done. So, one year as an undergraduate at Cambridge, he enlisted for the army, which was strictly against Communist Party guidelines, at

00:22:39.000 --> 00:22:40.000
the time.

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So he says he never left the Communist Party, he was never expelled from the Communist Party. It just sort of disappeared in that respect.

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But he did join the Armed Forces he served as a tank commander after DJ.

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And he describes in some detail moving from Normandy up into Germany.

00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:07.000
He says he was absolutely appalled.

00:23:07.000 --> 00:23:27.000
When he reached Hamburg, because everything that he has been told was that Hamburg was just attacked by bombing as a military target, and when when he arrived in haven't spoken Hamburg, he saw that clearly wasn't true that there were various, you know,

00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:39.000
very large areas of the civilian part of Hamburg, which had been destroyed by Allied bombing, so the other.

00:23:39.000 --> 00:23:47.000
Anyway, when he came back, so he's married in 1940 to start the family with his wife joy.

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And he was given an early discharge from the army so that he could complete his studies. Okay, which which he did, he completed the tripods and graduated with first class honors in English.

00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:24.000
Now at that point he was offered a senior research fellowship at Trinity College, but he refused it, and that was it would have been financially you know to his advantage but he refused it, because at that point, he did not want so he is what 21 of the

00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:25.000
time.

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And he didn't want to go into academia that.

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And, and what do you want to do instead was, was to actually meet with what he called me up real people.

00:24:39.000 --> 00:24:54.000
So he left Cambridge, and he joined what was then known as the Oxford delicacy. This was in effect the extra mural, Department of Oxford University.

00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:58.000
And at that point, 1940s.

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The Oxford delicacy actually offered education but almost the whole of Southeast England.

00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:08.000
They were in charge of it.

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And he was appointed a book, as a lecturer.

00:25:17.000 --> 00:25:20.000
for the southeast region.

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And he went to live, various, various times in seafoods in a Sussex, and in Hastings.

00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:39.000
And he was covering in the area as a tutor of most of that parts of southeast, England.

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And although he was working for what was called the Oxford delicacy effect almost all of the current classes that he was teaching were organized through the WA, because that was the existing setup.

00:25:53.000 --> 00:26:05.000
Now, I want to just give you a quote this is from a series of lectures that he gave many years later, looking back on his life lot largely autobiographical.

00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:09.000
It says about this decision.

00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:20.000
So the main reason was that I could not see the point I was quite clear now that I've got a hell of a lot of writing to do, and I really wanted to get on with it.

00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:23.000
I particularly wanted to write a novel.

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It may sound odd in relation to the sense of being deeply blocked, that I was describing but I was still attempting to maintain the productive cultural emphasis of the 30 years.

00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:46.000
Then I and my friends will thank you rich and Clifford Collins, we're going to run a journal. We were convinced we were going to be able to build up a periodical and a press.

00:26:46.000 --> 00:27:00.000
One of the other things I was going to do was to write a documentary script for Michael RM, who was by then, and the assistant director with rotter. So we were going to make a film, we were going to start a magazine, there seemed much more exciting projects,

00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:19.000
than doing a thesis, the shape of the immediate years was the one would take WVA classes to support oneself, through them interesting approach, but it's very clear for what he says that at that point, someone talking about 1946.

00:27:19.000 --> 00:27:22.000
He wanted to be a writer.

00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:29.000
That was helping out so you don't degree in English is made interest was in English teacher and he wants to be a writer.

00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:44.000
So he came up with this regime, which he followed for many years, which was that he would write in the morning, in the afternoon he would read to back up what he was writing about, and in the evening.

00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:52.000
He would teach web eight classes, and it was the classroom, which were for workers, then so that's why they were evening classes.

00:27:52.000 --> 00:28:10.000
And that was how we would support himself, but he also felt very strongly that he wanted to connect with ordinary people. And this was what adult education came very very strongly to mean to you.

00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:16.000
Now, another quote about working with the WPA.

00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:26.000
He said, when I got my job in the extra middle of delicacy at Oxford, which control the scattered region extend from Staffordshire in the north to suspect in the south.

00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:30.000
I was appointed to a Sussex and went to live in Seaford.

00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:36.000
The social character my classes, was extremely mixed.

00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:51.000
At one level. There was the class law event in Hastings, essentially with the local Trades Council, which was called public expression and simply involves specific training in public writing and public speaking.

00:28:51.000 --> 00:29:05.000
There seemed little point in teaching the writing of essays. I taught the writing of reports, minutes memoranda and committee speaking, and all reports skills relevant to their work.

00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:13.000
At the other extreme, you will get a class of commuter housewives in Hey was thief who wanted to read some literature.

00:29:13.000 --> 00:29:19.000
Perfectly serious and their interest, but an entirely different social composition.

00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:39.000
Then I had a fair number, in which there was a mixture of the two elements including of course the substantial number of wagers one discovers the third or fourth meeting produce their novel or autobiography, their short stories or poems, an enormous amount

00:29:39.000 --> 00:29:49.000
of unknown writing of this sort goes on. It was a mixture. I could live with. So this is his attitude to adult education.

00:29:49.000 --> 00:29:54.000
And it's something which is very, very important.

00:29:54.000 --> 00:30:10.000
And it's something that will stay with him really for the rest of his life and this is why he is so influential in terms of looking at the history of the Wi Fi because those of you who might be familiar with the original foundation that who nice know

00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:12.000
three.

00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:30.000
It was very much about bringing a university type education to people who had not had the chance to go to university. So it was very much based on lectures and tutorials and some and Raymond wins or what was one of the first people to really go against

00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:49.000
that and to actually say that adult education has to be a shared experience is something that the tutor must learn from. As much as the student loans from, and he is really one of the first to begin to follow this path.

00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:51.000
And then to emphasize it.

00:30:51.000 --> 00:31:06.000
Now, he was a tutor for the WVA from 1946 to 1961, so for 15 years, very significant part of his adult life.

00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:09.000
He was a wa tutor.

00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:25.000
And when he left in 1961 he was finally offered a position as a senior lecturer in English literature at Cambridge University. By that time he was ready for academia, and you saw that that was the way he wanted to go.

00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:40.000
So, 1961 his life changes, fundamentally, and in that year, he published this, which I've got a copy of it, an open letter to WVA tutors.

00:31:40.000 --> 00:32:00.000
And this is we did actually make this available on the the web a website a couple of years ago. I've got no idea if it's still there or not, but he said some very interesting things in this, this was written as a web a tutor to other web a chooses the

00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:15.000
important or most significant statement, he makes his he says within it. I've often defined my own social purpose as the creation of an educated and pass it, and participating democracy.

00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:28.000
So that's what he saw he was doing. He was involved in trying to get people through the means of adult education to take a more active role in democracy their part in society.

00:32:28.000 --> 00:32:47.000
And so, I'm having said that, I've just remembered something which is one of the things I alluded to earlier on, I meant to draw your attention but I didn't forgot I showed you that slide, saying that to be truly radical, is to make hope possible rather

00:32:47.000 --> 00:32:55.000
than to spare convincing. What I meant to share with you was, don't worry I'm like ideas.

00:32:55.000 --> 00:32:57.000
I've got the T shirt.

00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:02.000
So they are philosophy football you can buy your own copy of it but they will, so that's anyway.

00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:07.000
I wore that especially for your benefit this evening so

00:33:07.000 --> 00:33:21.000
he goes on in this essay. So, this is worth repeating in the 1960s. When many people would tell you that the WA is historic mission is over.

00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:40.000
with the coming of better opportunities in the schools, the exceptional mind in the poor family is spotted young and is given a real chance. Yes, but this was never the heart of the web is purpose, of course, the exceptional minds must get their chance.

00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:44.000
But what about everyone else.

00:33:44.000 --> 00:33:48.000
I'm towards the end of this open letter he says.

00:33:48.000 --> 00:34:09.000
This may but it's been a challenge to new and imaginative teaching is constant. This may be a new methods in an experience class, or the profoundly important work with new kinds of students who have never before made such contact with for education.

00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:27.000
In recent years, I have discussed d h Lawrence with working minors discussed methods of arguments with building workers. Discuss newspapers, with young trade unionists discuss television with apprentices in training.

00:34:27.000 --> 00:34:40.000
To me, these have been formative experiences, and I have learned as much as I have taught a whole world of work is waiting have many kinds. For all who are ready to try it.

00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:54.000
The next few years may see a transformation in trade union education, which is a vital social importance. The development of work with women's organizations and young workers is also extremely promising.

00:34:54.000 --> 00:35:09.000
All this of course, in addition to the familiar work in tutorial classes and residential courses were experiment in teaching is often just as important, but none of us can sit back and wait for this to happen.

00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:16.000
It will only happen as widely as it needs to. If we all get in and work.

00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:29.000
So that's part of this letter that he addressed to other who chooses. And I would, I mean I've I've been a web a true to myself for 25 years now.

00:35:29.000 --> 00:35:42.000
And apart from taking this idea of discussion from Raymond Williams very largely and trying to use it in my own courses.

00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:57.000
And I think much of what he has to say is, is still, you know every betters as relevant so I would argue that Raymond Williams is a very profound representative of what had our education, really ought to be like and I hope I'm seeing loads of questions

00:35:57.000 --> 00:36:09.000
coming through chats now about about that. Now when he. The other thing I just want to go through this so very quickly release, make sure we've got time for a few questions at the end.

00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:24.000
And when he returns to Cambridge in 1961. So having spent 15 years working in adult education largely through the web a.

00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:49.000
In the late 50s early 60s he begins to produce a series of what became a very very significant and important books, and I've got a couple of them down here, and 1958, a published culture is ordinary 1961 he follows it with the loan revolution.

00:36:49.000 --> 00:37:08.000
And if any of you are interested, you know the end I mean I can hope it through Fiona produce a reading list for this if you if you want to follow any of this, but he started generating this idea of culture, which is why I said that when he.

00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:15.000
Yeah, one of the things he's famous for is soon as I got my pile of books and the next thing.

00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:20.000
He is regarded as the father of cultural studies.

00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:23.000
What happened was, during the 50s.

00:37:23.000 --> 00:37:38.000
He began to have some arguments with his comrades within the Communist Party. Although, as I've said he was always a semi detached member about the insistence on cars and class conflict.

00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:57.000
Now although he says, the biggest influence on his thinking was Karl Marx, there are certain aspects of this that he disagreed with and he thought what was more important was rather than looking at this very narrow issue of class and class conflict was

00:37:57.000 --> 00:38:04.000
something that he began to describe as culture.

00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:24.000
And what he meant by this was that it is actually, it's not the class that you are born into. Or you grow up in. It's your whole life experience. This is the important aspect and this is what will form your adult views, your opinions, your politics, so

00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:46.000
he expands from just looking at class into this idea of culture, and that is what he calls it, and that is what he begins to emphasize, and I just wanted to give you a couple of quotes from culture is all know so i mean this is this is 1958.

00:38:46.000 --> 00:39:02.000
Having said that, I'm going to lost my, my quote.

00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:06.000
now I've got this disappeared somewhere.

00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:12.000
What is talking about is, it's actually your entire experience which which forms you.

00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:25.000
And that is what gives you your background, in effect, and that is actually the most important thing that acts upon you. And what he's mainly interested in.

00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:43.000
Is that what he brings to called culture is not just a single aspect is what he describes as a process. This is something that you develops what you grew up with is what you develop is what influences you in the end.

00:39:43.000 --> 00:39:48.000
And as for no sweat during the 50s while his formulating this.

00:39:48.000 --> 00:40:00.000
He, we know that he was reading a lot of Antonio Gramsci the Italian Marxist who talks about I mean he's, best known for talking about, Hey gamma.

00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:23.000
And what grams she meant by her gamma is not just how you are ruled or leadership, but it's how you maintain that a gram she was arguing that those who are in positions of ruling, a country, he's writing in Fascist Italy and 1930s.

00:40:23.000 --> 00:40:33.000
And, but it's how they maintain so how are they the ruling class convince you that what they're doing is the right way of doing things.

00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:52.000
And what Graham she argued, was that it was now up to the working class to have more sense of their own confidence, their own culture, so that they could build up their own money give themselves a position of strength to attack the state and eventually

00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:54.000
lead to revolution.

00:40:54.000 --> 00:41:13.000
This was very influential on landlines. And this is where his, his arguments really developed the what you've got to do is to recognize this this whole aspects of culture, which lies behind it, that there is a thing which is a working class culture.

00:41:13.000 --> 00:41:31.000
This is what is the basic thesis in his the long revolution, published in 1961, which you could almost say is the same as Edward Thompson was working on at the time in terms of class consciousness.

00:41:31.000 --> 00:41:41.000
They're both saying that, after the Industrial Revolution, the working class began to realize that they had more in common with each other and with their offices.

00:41:41.000 --> 00:41:54.000
That's the beginnings of class consciousness which would lead to the development of socialism and so, so, Robin Williams is looking into exactly the same thing, exactly the same process.

00:41:54.000 --> 00:42:15.000
But he's opening it up into a bigger experience of what your life, tells you, this is really what he is is all about. And you can see the connection between his ideas about culture and his ideas about adult education.

00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:28.000
Yeah, to to back each other up they reinforce each other so you can see the general sort of drift that he's moving in. Throughout this period. So he's looking at this development of working class culture.

00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:42.000
He's doing it, when he's at Cambridge is a lecturer in English literature, he will eventually become the first, Professor of drama. At Cambridge University so he's very much writing from an English literature perspective.

00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:51.000
And he wrote numerous books about English literature, Marxism and literature and you know, you name it, he wrote about it.

00:42:51.000 --> 00:43:10.000
And one of the interesting ideas that he came came up with, which I know a lot of people have found this very influential, as in the long revolution he comes up with something that he calls a structure of feeling.

00:43:10.000 --> 00:43:13.000
And this is how he describes it, he said.

00:43:13.000 --> 00:43:18.000
The term I was suggested describe it is a structure of feeling.

00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:26.000
It says as firm and definite as structure suggests. Yes, it operates in the most delicate and least tangible parts about activity.

00:43:26.000 --> 00:43:37.000
In one sense the structure of feeling is the culture of a period is just a particular living result of all the elements in the general organization.

00:43:37.000 --> 00:43:48.000
And it says in this respect to the arts of a period, taking these to include characteristic approaches and tones in arguments are of major importance for here.

00:43:48.000 --> 00:44:09.000
If anywhere. This characteristic is likely to be expressed often not consciously, but by the fact that here in the only examples we have of recorded communication that outlives its barrows, the actual living sense the deep community, that makes the communication

00:44:09.000 --> 00:44:24.000
possible is naturally drawn upon. I do not mean that the structure of feeling any more than the social character is possessed. In the same way by the many individuals in the community, but I think it is a very deep and very wide possession.

00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:43.000
In all actual communities, precisely because it is on it that communication depends what is particularly interesting is that it does not seem to be in any formal sense, learned one generation may train, its successor, with reasonable success, and the

00:44:43.000 --> 00:45:00.000
social character or the general cultural pattern. But the new generation will have his own structure of feeling, which will not appear to have come from anywhere for him most distinctly, the changing organization is enacted in the organism.

00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:14.000
The new generation responsive its own ways to the unique world, it is inherited, taking up many continuity is that can be traced and reproducing many aspects of the organization, which can be separately described yet feeling his whole life in certain

00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:22.000
ways, differently, and shaping his creative response into a new structure of feeling.

00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:38.000
And so, I've had a lot of people say to me that that is one of the most influential things that they've ever come across. And so this is why two very large extent say he is known as the father of cultural studies, because he comes up with this idea of

00:45:38.000 --> 00:45:40.000
culture.

00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:49.000
Your life experience, forming you and forming your political views and everything else about you and how you respond to everything.

00:45:49.000 --> 00:46:00.000
And this was something which he was really at the forefront of developing. And you can see that adult education is an absolutely central part of it.

00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:06.000
That point keeping an eye on the clock I think I rest my case right Fiona.

00:46:06.000 --> 00:46:14.000
Thank you very much. That was really really enlightening and a really great insight into how Williams influence teaching at the WEA.

00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:21.000
And, which we can still see to do so. And let's, we've got some questions chat. So, from the top and we'll get through as many as many as we possibly can.

00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:34.000
From the top and we'll get through as many as many as we possibly can. No question from sue you were talking about, Williams as well Fritz and was he well speaking.

00:46:34.000 --> 00:46:55.000
No, he wasn't, and he was familiar with a lot of wealth and a lot of well sayings, but no he wasn't, and he's a bit ambivalent, much later in the 1970s which is actually the, I worked in Mid Wales for five years and in the mid 19 late 1970s.

00:46:55.000 --> 00:47:04.000
And he was actually very ambivalent with the way that the Welsh language society was going at the time and the, the bombings of second homes and so on.

00:47:04.000 --> 00:47:23.000
And so he felt that that was a bit of a narrow distraction. Most of the time, but he did emphasize that the sense of historical culture that you have is something you mustn't lose, and you must hold on to it.

00:47:23.000 --> 00:47:30.000
Thank you very much. No, and questions from Barbara, no cuts kind of two sides to this.

00:47:30.000 --> 00:47:40.000
What do you think, Williams would have thought of Corbin and Starmer. And what were his views on Stalin.

00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:55.000
Right now, first thing is always keep people in their historical context and never put words into their mouth, and given I'm installing there's actually quite a live issue for me because I've been teaching courses on the Spanish Civil War.

00:47:55.000 --> 00:48:06.000
Recently, which is another one of my, my main interests, and in that essay, I refer to your a Marxist Aren't you call your mom.

00:48:06.000 --> 00:48:22.000
He's very very interesting because he has this strangely ambivalent view of the labour movement as a whole because he says that, On the one hand, you've got the revolutionaries.

00:48:22.000 --> 00:48:33.000
And on the other extreme, you've got the Fabians those who believe in the evolutionary slow growth, working you know by convincing people of your, your arguments.

00:48:33.000 --> 00:48:50.000
And he said this was in the 1970s, he was writing this. He said he's always been struck, that the labour movement has always been in the middle somewhere and it, sometimes it goes one way and somebody goes the other way and it comes back in the middle

00:48:50.000 --> 00:49:00.000
and it goes the other way and the labour movement in Britain can never seem to make his mind up, whether he wants to be revolutionary, or he wants to be evolutionary.

00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:19.000
And I think his conclusion is that he would generally be more favourable to the revolutionary side because he felt that something needed to be done and you could just spend far too much time talking about things without doing anything.

00:49:19.000 --> 00:49:26.000
And so I think in terms of the original question, I mean I don't.

00:49:26.000 --> 00:49:38.000
Don't tell anyone I said this or next I don't want to be quoted on this, but I think he would have been very much in favour of Jeremy Corbyn very anti care storm, but that's just my view.

00:49:38.000 --> 00:49:43.000
All right, but you know just that's if I leave it there

00:49:43.000 --> 00:49:53.000
is a comment here from Brian I don't know if you saw it culture in the Communist Party and Putin would seem very relevant at the present time given current events.

00:49:53.000 --> 00:49:58.000
Okay, let's move on. Here's a question from Paul.

00:49:58.000 --> 00:50:08.000
And was it Williams ever associated with the Cambridge five Donald McLean, Dave Burgess etc etc.

00:50:08.000 --> 00:50:14.000
Partly. He certainly new Anthony blunt.

00:50:14.000 --> 00:50:23.000
And I'm not sure if it was McLean that he knew, but he. Yes, he was aware of them.

00:50:23.000 --> 00:50:33.000
But I don't think he was ever aware of just how much they were involved with Soviet communism.

00:50:33.000 --> 00:50:39.000
And because say, Raymond Williams, always.

00:50:39.000 --> 00:50:47.000
It was reasonably how to describe yourself as a Marxist but I'd say it was always a rather semi detached and slightly critical member certainly of communist dogma.

00:50:47.000 --> 00:51:04.000
So, at Cambridge, that that group was very very lively was very active. He knew a number of the people involved say he was a he was a lifelong friend of Eric HubSpot as well.

00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:16.000
And so who knew what was going on within the communist circles in Cambridge, but he was never sort of actively connected with the more actively involved with him.

00:51:16.000 --> 00:51:18.000
Okay, interesting.

00:51:18.000 --> 00:51:36.000
Right. What do we got next. This is a question from Andrew said that that Williams was a pacifist in the late 70s busted in 1940, any special reason for this change was a sort of dancing conversion or more gradual.

00:51:36.000 --> 00:51:45.000
No, I think it was much more simply, a recognition that the most important thing to do was to fight fascism.

00:51:45.000 --> 00:52:01.000
So say Williams doesn't really say anything about the Spanish Civil War, which I find that as a slightly odd omission. Really. And so it's not until after that, that he makes many comments about the threat of fascism.

00:52:01.000 --> 00:52:09.000
But I think that once you know the war started about the same time that he started his first year as an undergraduate.

00:52:09.000 --> 00:52:18.000
And I think by the time he got to the end of that year he realized that actually, you know, being being an undergraduate is not as important as fighting fascism.

00:52:18.000 --> 00:52:31.000
So it was that sort of drive I think which which caused him to enlist, but he is, I mean I just refer to his comments about Hamburg, and

00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:48.000
he wrote very critically about the conduct of the Second World War, and there's this one particular incident when he's in Normandy, and he's leading. He's a tank commander and he's leading a group of six tanks, and they come up against a group of German

00:52:48.000 --> 00:52:50.000
tanks.

00:52:50.000 --> 00:53:05.000
And he said, luckily for him. These were all fair marks SS tanks. So they were commanded by, you know, people you could recognize as being Nazis.

00:53:05.000 --> 00:53:23.000
Whereas if he'd have come up against a group of regular German Army tanks which will probably being driven by German workers. He would have been very much into Myers, whether to shoot at them or not, but because this was a fascist, an openly fascist group

00:53:23.000 --> 00:53:31.000
of tanks, he was quite happy to attack them. So he comes up you know with a lot of these interesting comments about the conduct of them.

00:53:31.000 --> 00:53:36.000
I think that was just like us it was being an anti fascist which drove me into it.

00:53:36.000 --> 00:53:38.000
See, okay.

00:53:38.000 --> 00:53:47.000
Right. And this is a question from john was Williams, and connected with the Open University in any way.

00:53:47.000 --> 00:54:01.000
I'm not directly but he did do a lot of work for the Open University, and especially given that one of his closest friends was still at home, who was very active in the Open University.

00:54:01.000 --> 00:54:22.000
If you look on YouTube, I there's not it There's a wonderful clip, it's about 16 minutes long, which was produced in 1984 appropriately and it's a program about George Orwell and Raymond Williams wrote a lot about George Orwell, and the program is fronted

00:54:22.000 --> 00:54:36.000
by Stuart Hall, but the main interview is with Raymond Williams and you can find the same, you know, just go to YouTube and look for Raymond Williams on George Orwell, but, and, but it's it's a really really interesting video.

00:54:36.000 --> 00:54:47.000
And so, Williams had connections with university he did deliver quite a lot of lectures, but he wasn't involved with the foundation of it on the running of it.

00:54:47.000 --> 00:54:54.000
Okay, okay. Hope that answers your question john. And now here's an interesting question from Sue.

00:54:54.000 --> 00:55:00.000
What do you think Williams would make of social media.

00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:03.000
Go to think.

00:55:03.000 --> 00:55:24.000
I think he would probably absolutely hate most of it. And I think the interesting thing about Raymond Williams is that he can be extremely funny. Yeah, music, at times, and quite cynical, and the way he writes, he has not overly serious.

00:55:24.000 --> 00:55:29.000
Although he does take his issues very seriously.

00:55:29.000 --> 00:55:37.000
And I my first connection with with him was in 1970 when I was an undergraduate, And I had to do.

00:55:37.000 --> 00:55:45.000
General Studies, as part of my degree and my, my tutor had been a student with Raymond Williams and.

00:55:45.000 --> 00:55:49.000
And he had just published his book called communications.

00:55:49.000 --> 00:55:56.000
And we did the experiments, based on what Raymond Williams are done, which was looking at the media.

00:55:56.000 --> 00:56:14.000
And so there's the print media which all the time so does a group of us we all had one newspaper, to look at each, and we had to read it for two weeks, and we had to analyze the number of column inches between the new sport fashion, all the different

00:56:14.000 --> 00:56:29.000
categories. And then we brought it all together, which is exactly what Williams had done himself in this book, communications, and my to show got us doing it as their own experiment, which came out with some really interesting results, actually.

00:56:29.000 --> 00:56:37.000
So, he was very aware of the media as it was in his day.

00:56:37.000 --> 00:56:46.000
He was very aware and warned against the ownership of media, becoming a dominant feature.

00:56:46.000 --> 00:56:54.000
And he died nice and ICA before the advent really off, you know, the computer.

00:56:54.000 --> 00:57:13.000
And so, again, it's rather difficult. I think to try to put words in his mouth, but I think you know what I know about Raymond Williams. I don't think he'd have been very fond of social media and I think that's the most, I can say about it, especially as

00:57:13.000 --> 00:57:22.000
nastiness. Yeah, well, and Okay, question from Barbara you were talking about the structure feeling.

00:57:22.000 --> 00:57:32.000
was asking, is the structure of feeling a general thing for a whole generation, for example hippies were different from the parents, or would it be different for each individual.

00:57:32.000 --> 00:57:42.000
You know what he's saying is, he was trying to move the debate, beyond just a class basis.

00:57:42.000 --> 00:57:57.000
And he was saying there's something much bigger than that. So, what he is identifying as culture is much more a reflection on how you as an individual relate to your life experiences.

00:57:57.000 --> 00:58:06.000
And those life experiences well affects the way that you then interact with other people in the way you develop your political thinking and and all the rest of it.

00:58:06.000 --> 00:58:26.000
So, it's not rigid, when he talks about it being a structure, what he's really referring to is that it does tend to move from one generation to another, so that the experiences that you have growing up in your generation may well be different from the

00:58:26.000 --> 00:58:42.000
experiences your parents had and the expense that your children will have, but they are all the same thing, basically. So what you've got to do is be open minded about taking what you can from these experiences.

00:58:42.000 --> 00:59:01.000
And, you know, being reasonable being logical about it. Some weighing up the evidence and and that's how you come to your own conclusions. And what he was arguing was that it's this this this sense of life experience, which is actually far more important

00:59:01.000 --> 00:59:17.000
than the class that you are born into. That's where the argument comes from. So you can be born into a very working class environment but you those attitudes may not save, stay with you.

00:59:17.000 --> 00:59:33.000
And it's the attitudes that you take with you, which are the more important reflection, even though you probably would never forget the attitudes that you felt that you were brought up in and and born with and this is, I think this is a direct relation

00:59:33.000 --> 00:59:51.000
to his upbringing in the world's borders that that sense of community, and solidarity, never left him there was always an absolutely you know fundamental part of his of his life and that's really what is informing is as all views on society and the way

00:59:51.000 --> 00:59:53.000
that it functions.

01:02:28.000 --> 01:02:40.000
Right. I think that's probably us so do you want to show us that final picture that you can, yes, if I can find it again.

01:02:40.000 --> 01:02:52.000
Right. Okay, if you can see that, okay I don't make it any bigger than what is happening is that I taught a course last term.

01:02:52.000 --> 01:02:58.000
Just a free session course about Raymond Williams as part of the centenary celebrations.

01:02:58.000 --> 01:03:06.000
And we decided to run it again but what we're doing is it's now going to become a five session course because as the tutor.

01:03:06.000 --> 01:03:17.000
I found very quickly that there just wasn't enough time to cover everything because he was such a prolific such wide ranging thinker, and writer.

01:03:17.000 --> 01:03:27.000
So we've got a new course coming up which will be advertised nationally and I think on the eastern region website.

01:03:27.000 --> 01:03:39.000
And so this is it, it's called creating an educated democracy, and to do to a 656 is the course ID for it so if you want to look it up that's where to go.

01:03:39.000 --> 01:03:49.000
It's on five Wednesday evening. So starting 20th of April, 7pm, to 8:30pm.

01:03:49.000 --> 01:04:06.000
So if you would like to know a bit more about Williams and being a five session course, it allows me to expand a lot more to talk about some of these other works and some of these other ideas and some give you a much more complete picture of him.

01:04:06.000 --> 01:04:24.000
And indeed, you know what I'm interested in which is trying to explain to you what he meant by creating an educated democracy, because that's what I feel actually informs my attention with the W right that's what I'm trying to do, which is why I run so

01:04:24.000 --> 01:04:28.000
many courses ionic ism but that's another, that's another message.

01:04:28.000 --> 01:04:43.000
And, but that's it, that's the course so make a note if you're interested, see 2228656 go for that. Look for it. The, the Course Information shooting everything has been published.

01:04:43.000 --> 01:04:56.000
So enrollments are now open. And I will be working on producing the canvas to back that up shortly. So, no thank you Chad, so I can. Thanks very much for that.

00:00:06.000 --> 00:00:23.000
Welcome everyone, and thank you for having me back again that I really enjoyed the last letter again about pronouns, and there's going to be a bit of a recap on this lecture about gender and diversity, just so you get to sort by understanding of what

00:00:23.000 --> 00:00:48.000
to be talking about. So, I'm going to just share my screen and bring up the first slide. Can everyone see that Okay, that's good. Yeah, pink or blue, the socialization of gender, and it's a really interesting topic that I'm actually going to be writing

00:00:48.000 --> 00:01:01.000
a research paper on so I thought this is really good for me to be looking at it and sharing with you and sharing thoughts with you, and also for you to share your thoughts with me because we're going to be stopping so about halfway through and I'm going

00:01:01.000 --> 00:01:06.000
to ask you a question. And I'd really be interested in your thoughts on that as well.

00:01:06.000 --> 00:01:09.000
So

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it's LGBT q plus. History Month. And this lecture forms part of the history month so we'll be talking about the LGBT q pride flag, or flags. And we'll also be talking about the pink and blue socialization of gender and and the colors as well, but we see

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sort of all around us.

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regard to sort of the binary is male and female so we don't have a look at gender definition. So a quick recap on what that is. And then we're going to look at the history of incomplete clothing for young children.

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So, going back with our show you some examples of like art history, and things that you may remember as well. When you were children, or when you were bringing up your own children.

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Then you're going to have a look at the social construct and perform activity so some academic dialogue on why why this is happening, why is pink and blue what's the theory behind it.

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And then we're going to have a quick break and I'm going to be asking you some questions. And then, after that we'll have a look at the LGBTQ plus colours, and what those colours symbolize and what they mean.

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And I've also got some resources and further reading for you so if you're really interested in this subject you can reach out to and then we we have our usual q amp a section at the end.

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So it's gender. So, gender is about identity and expression of individuals so it's not necessarily about a sex or a male or female. It's actually about how people identify themselves so they can identify themselves internally as how they feel about themselves.

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So they could feel, male or I could feel female or they can feel a combination of both or neither because we're looking at this or that continuum or a spectrum of how you feel.

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And the other way, gender can be expressed as externally, so people or individuals can present themselves in a certain way. So with their clothing or hair or mannerisms so pull back the sort of external expression.

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And then a few other terms, it's like sexual orientation. So sexual orientation is how you are attracted to someone physically. I think you have the sex, which is the anatomy, the physical anatomy.

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And I've got a diagram, I'm going to show you the French person, and this is quite a sort of simple way to understand how gender is represented and there's the academic term so it on the outside here on the left, you've got expression so that's externally

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how someone expresses themselves.

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Internally, you have identity up here in terms of the brain, and how people feel. And then, orientation sexual orientation, you have the heart so it's how are you how are you attracted to someone, are you attracted to men women male female or not attracted

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to anybody. And then we have the physical, the six. So we're looking at the anatomy the biology here. So that's quite an easy way to remember it.

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So, if we look at the history of pink and blue the colours that are used throughout history when we're doing this because we are surrounded at the moment with these pink for girls and blue for boys, we have that sort of like lived experience of a certain

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amount of bias when we're looking at these images. So, although you're looking at the images you may automatically say well why is that baby wearing pink, why is it Why is that that's not right you know but you got to think about all you are seeing images

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around you that are affecting how you feel about different images that you're going to be seeing so it'd be interesting to discuss that further when we have our break.

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So, the history of pink and blue in the middle age is there a lot of images of Mary and Madonna with blue, and for this image here which is from 1390 Italian that peau de de ma Co.

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This cloak here is actually blue but his faded over time, because it was made from.

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It just check my notes, it was made from. As you're right so the pigment as your I compared to ultra Marine, as you're right faded over time so this would have been really bright blue when it was first painted so we're looking at the blue or female, and

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then we're looking at the red here. This is Christ red for Christ so it's totally the opposite of what we received today.

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And if you look at the symbolism of this blue represented purity divine virtue, and then the red represented, lots of different things but you could say that it represented martyrdom.

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And Christ blood, so we can see that the bread of the baby here.

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Another example we have of in the Middle Ages, is the virgin child here again in a red outfit, and Mary in blue and this time is a much brighter blue because it's been paid out of.

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This is the 1400, and this collection. If you're interested in looking at RP go to the National Gallery website you can actually go and search all their collections and you can see all the images of their paintings, if you're interested in doing that.

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The, the reason behind the symbolism of pink and blue, and where it originally came from it is all in the Middle Ages anyway, is related to this, or humour's, and I know that I think it was last year, we had a lecture about the four humours so that whether

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whether you can think back to that lecture and it was talking about these four elements the fire and water. And these represented and different colours and the different elements so we're looking at, air, which is at the top here, and then you're looking

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at fire, which is represented by red, which is blood. It is hot. And if you look at the inner circle here you can see manhood is on the inner circle near read.

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And if we have a look over at Blue, we have that represents, water, and it represents the area for for blue so it's cold and it's wet, whereas fire is hot and it's warm so we looked at Christ being warm, this is the fire.

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it's called medieval bodies. I don't know if anyone's come across this is by jack Hartnell. And that's really interesting read and that talks about the body and the different.

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The humans and the elements of the body as well.

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So if we're moving on to the 1600s, we come across these very elaborate clothing here that people will.

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And we have a Dutch painter called your Hannah's Cornelius best Bronk, and you can see we've got a pink outfit with a blue cloak. So we have we don't have the agenda pink and blue norms as we see today.

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And then also if we move on, we have a saint by the same artist, 1641, a young girl in a blue dress.

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And this is an interesting one. This is American folk art about 1840 and it's from the Honolulu Museum of Art, and this is a boy in a pink dress. So we're looking at pink being used in four boys and four girls this is no sort of like discrimination.

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We also looking at dresses dresses were worn by boys and girls. So a gender neutral really everyone more dresses up until the age of about six, seven, and also the majority of young children, or white.

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So this is an example of someone who would be quite wealthy because they could afford to have a color but most young white. And the reason for that is because it was easy to clean, and if it was marks on it you could just bleach it so you didn't have

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of this pink for boys pink for girls and blue for boys when the children were born, it was all sort of like very gender neutral colours and.

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Another example is the Victorian so this is a Victorian birthday card so on this card you can see that the little girl is in a blue dress and the boy is in a red sort of run proceed here.

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So, again, there's there's no discrimination between these colours being fixed in terms of squares what it's just a picture of a Victorian card. And you can see those role reversal colours there.

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And 1800 1900, we're looking at Franklin Roosevelt here so you might look at that today and think, oh, that's not Franklin Roosevelt that must be a girl.

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She's got little shoes on patent leather shoes. got a white dress on a long hair, but at that time, the girls and the boys was very similar clothes and outfits so to say it was very gender neutral but if we're looking at this now because we've had all

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the exposure to the different colours that we're seeing today in the shops and what babies aware and we look at this, it doesn't it doesn't necessarily sit by with us as well.

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1900s. So it's interesting to think about what you know why do you just suddenly change what happened.

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that that young children look on TV, they're very much role related and related to the to the binaries.

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We have a look at my eye contact it, politics, Toy Museum. I think this, we have to lecture about politics, which was last summer. And some of you may have been attended that lecture I know that people don't like looking at those then sort of look away

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but I contacted them, and I was talking about the use of gender based clothing for dolls and Debbie brown who's a creator there said that the most dollars were just dressed in the traditional long white clothes that you can see this image here so there

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was no such thing called Blue, and she said that there's a few male dolls, and there's a baby dog Doreen, and during dates from the 1930s and Doreen is dressed in a pink knitted outfit.

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Unfortunately I don't have a photograph of Dory. But it's interesting that the dolls that the children played with also replicated what the children were burying at that time.

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But we move on to the 1900s it's interesting to have a look at what's happening in America, because in 1927 and Time Magazine.

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We have a short piece about clothing for boys and girls. And they, the idea is I think for boy because pink was usually used for boys and blue was used for girls, and there's a table at the bottom here showing what type of whatever areas that are geographical

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areas in America and what colours we use so this is in 1927 so so after the First World War. So, we're looking at.

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Manhattan, you've got the different department stores here. And also, at that time in America, there were these some magazines or trade magazines that were sent out to all the houses and residents and people could order things on these in these capitals.

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So here we're saying in Manhattan, at best, think was usually used for boys and girls had blue, clothing, and it may says it was blue for boys, and pink for girls that if you're looking down here in Los Angeles.

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It was blue for boys pink for those.

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colour for boys or girls is a mixture of it, and that was 1927. So, you see that we're looking through the ages of a history and we haven't really come to any decision as to what colour was about to

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move forward to buy the 1960s and 1970s. I don't know whether you still have you here. Do you remember these sort of patterns because I remember as a child, my, my mom used to make a lot of our clothes because we didn't we couldn't really afford to buy

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clothes and also they weren't. It wasn't the availability of clothes that we find these days and in places like prime mark on next.

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And so, this is examples of some some patterns and you see these sorts of gender neutral wrong pursuits. And then again in the 1970s which is on the left here, you've got these again so gender neutral trousers suits.

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And we have the

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blue or, or, or red or yellow. But in the 1960s and 70s. Those of you that, remember, making these outfits for your own children. 60s and 70s was the introduction of the second wave feminism so you had people like Betty Friedan who wrote the feminine

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mystique, and they were talking about freedom and emancipation of women women getting out of the house and being able to work, and not being having to stay at home and behind the kitchen sink, and it was all about very much about freedom and emancipation.

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And these clothes of gender neutral clothes, sort of reflected what was happening in society at that time. And so it's interesting to associate that was what was happening in feminism, and that's what made me think well what.

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Now, and we were sort of like we're feminism has moved along further and further in terms of equality and, but we seem to have gone and started using things like nappies for example, a disposable nappies, we've got the boys nappies and the girls nappies.

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And these were introduced in the 1990s like Pampers, so you can see the poison that piece of gossip like, things like that. And the girls teddy bears and.

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So, we started to see this in the 1990s, and this wasn't related to feminism on top because of the feminism at that time, certainly wasn't restricted to trying to make women go down in certain roles, so the feminine feminine way women staying at home

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and not working.

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It was very much

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in terms of feminism.

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It was more advanced it was people wanting to be equal rather than just swimming being equally was everyone's being equal, and looking at how society can be equal as a whole.

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So, 1990s when we start looking at these colours being introduced the pink and the blue for boys and girls. And then, When we look at today so in 2022.

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There was something recently in the news I don't know whether you saw it about prime okay said prime what we're being accused of selling hugely sexist, kids clothes, and these are some examples of clothes that they had on their website.

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So, for example, you had a girl's sweatshirt in pink and it said dream. And can you have a boys sweatshirt in blue and it says fearless so you think about those words fearless is a boat.

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It's an active word, where stream is, if you think of a girl. You'll tell you telling a girl that they can dream but they can never actually do anything.

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They just got to sit there and dream about it, whereas a boy you're saying to them you're you're fearless you can do anything you want in life.

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And you look down the bottom here.

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We have never hold back this is a boys t shirt. So say two boys your fears Don't hold back, you could do anything you want to, whereas girls dream about it you can smile, bright and happy and have a lovely smile on your face, but you know, you need to

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hold back your girl you were pink.

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And that's how you are you're not like boys you can play with pink clothes, Barbie dolls, and anything that's pink. You can watch princess some frozen Disney films but remember your girl so as long as you smile everyone will like you.

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And so, this is this is 2022. And I find it.

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I find that we seem to have sort of reverted and go back to a period where women didn't have equality and it's interesting to, to find out whether this is just being accepted as normal, or whether this is something that people are going to be starting

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to talk about or discuss and, and also challenging. So, in response to this prime Mark said that there's a broad range of styles across the kids clothing and they're catering for mixed tastes.

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And they said, in recent times they've removed gender specific labels. However, I don't feel that these are gender neutral. These clothing that is here.

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And they're also saying that they're always learning so we welcome customer feedback so it's good that they welcome customer feedback but these items are still on their website.

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And I also had a look at. Next, and they have got several items on their website as well.

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And then I had to walk around Northridge the other week and took some photographs.

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Those baby clothes in pink. So it's quite striking that

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this is evident today, whereas I certainly don't remember it when I was younger or when even when I was bringing up my children.

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There's also something else that is started in the 2000s that has come across from America and they called baby gender reveal party is I don't know whether anyone's heard about these, but what the Americans do and what is coming over into this country

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as well, is that before a baby's born, the parents will have a scan done, and told what sex the babies, so they will then have a party, invite all their friends and families, before the baby's born and do a big surprise party with the colors represented.

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And the change of their baby but their, their friends and family have to guess what sex it is. And if they guess right you have these things like this is this is blue feathers here that will coming out of the box so it's a really big thing in America

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is gender reveal party is.

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When I first heard about gender and I thought, Oh, that's a nice idea I thought it was about people being able to talk about the agenda in terms of LGBT q i also love the idea to have an agenda reveal party and then I realized oh no it's not.

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It's actually people having a party before the baby's born and actually determining the colours the colours of this binary male, female, pink, blue, a fist baby before, before the babies even born.

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So, I wanted to ask you and this is where Fiona is going to pop in and awesome just pause for a moment I want to ask you, or why do you think colours of change to the pink and blue stereotypes that we see today, because it is very, it's only very recent

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this has happened. And some of you may remember back to when you have at your children or grandchildren and I said I remember as a child and having my children they didn't seem to be so extreme as it is now.

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So I'm going to show a stop sharing, Fiona.

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Yeah. Stop shooting for a little minute and if people want to put their comments, and what they think the answers to that question into the, into the chat, and we can we can talk through some of them.

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So we'll give you a little minute to do that.

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Why do you think these colors of change to the pink and blue. They used to be gender, gender neutral colors for young children and babies. So why do you think this might have changed.

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Okay, so like few comments coming in there and power of the media Barbies. It's all to do with marketing.

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And yet, a lot of the comments that are coming in, is around that the actual marketing.

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Not sure if I a girl can't buy a blue top or vice versa, surely no difference.

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Eg no buttons doing up opposite sides and shirts, because you do see that don't you address the buttons and zips and things a lot marketing is a really good point.

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Yeah.

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And I'll come on to that and the next slide.

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easier to categorize for consumer stick purposes.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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It seems to be marketing and advertising so that kind of accord with your thoughts on it Rachel.

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Yes.

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Pink Pink fairies on TV. Yes.

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And and also way, if you think about someone in the chat has talked about missing baby clothes and it was all very gender neutral colors I lemon and whites and cream.

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And also, just some of you remember making clothes for your children using those patterns that were again sort of gender neutral.

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I'm talking about.

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We got here, commercialism.

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When is it, there's just a quick question here that we could maybe answer no since we're talking about this is a very very quick question from Andrew, Alexander, you said it was quite recently that this pink and blue binary thing came along.

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It then leads over to this country so we were talking about it, mentioned about the nappies that the Pampers nappies girls nappies and boys nappies with the different colours on them.

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And I didn't I didn't use disposal on that piece I use cloth nappies and I will just like white.

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But it is again, it's about. Suppose selling selling more nappies that they said all the girls nappies are different, because they had the boys.

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When do you use cloth nappies it's always actually the same.

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So yes so I started 1990s in America and then move over here. And as we're seeing now in sort by the 2020s we're seeing these gender reveal party shark and American.

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Bear in mind that we are talking about Western culture. We only talking about Western culture with these colous, and in terms of the babies and the young, young children, it's Western culture alone yeah there's a few people saying about you know the reason

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I was asking that is there's a few people saying about kind of remembering the pink and blue thing from a bit earlier than that. And in the 50s and 60s perhaps.

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It may have been a bit earlier but the the research I've done said it was mostly in the 1990s because in the 50s 60s, there were more gender neutral colors and the babies lot babies were just fess up like white or black fitted clothes but it should be

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why to let them.

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And also, in the 1970s, when there was that push back against what's been happening in the in the 50s with women told to stay at home and not work then we have this pretty much sort of like gender neutral posing as well.

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And the, The young girls and children wearing trousers seats.

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Yeah. And just sits in the other interesting comments we've got lots of comments which obviously I'll pass on to you afterwards and Mitchell.

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I just thought there's a comment there by Jill Arnold about there's no evidence that children naturally favour one colour. Well when when babies are born, then they don't favorite color because they don't have any choice what they've been in today.

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And so, the same with young, young babies and young children, the clothes are bought by their parents and their parents or grandparents will dress them in certain clothing so they don't really have a choice but if they they favor one color or the answer

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will because they're surrounded by these colors and now I'll go into that now. So if I just share my screen here, of course, thanks, thanks very much for all your comments folks we will certainly be taking these away afterwards.

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Just

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share my screen, and hopefully everyone can see that. So, when we talking about will children naturally favour, different colours that the theory behind this is all about gender social construction so when a baby is born.

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They don't have any have any favourite colours, so they put in colours by their parents by their clothing, and just the way that parents will treat the children as well in terms of the words that they're using and the descriptions and the toys that they

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buy. So, I think.

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Lots of people mentioned that consumerism and the pink and blue consumerism is in fact reinforcing and imposing this binary plan it seems to be going backwards rather than being progressive and looking forward, and it's normalizing gender as a binary

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construction so we are talking about gender roles, being created or constructed by a society. So when you're born you don't have any preference over your gender role but you see everything a young baby sees what's happening around it and he absorbs everything.

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And then so it sees young children will see their peers, wearing pink girls and the boys will see a boy is wearing blue with the slogans on their t shirts saying fearless and things like that so it's about what happened in society, and it's about this

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performative city and this construction of what people can see. And so, we have a well known academic Judith Butler who wrote in 1990, that we act in ways that consolidate the impression of building a man or a woman so when you're born.

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You can be born male or female, but you don't start to

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express yourself as male or female, what is this all about what happens around you, what the environments like as to how you express yourself.

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And then we have Iris, Marion young in 1980 wrote a book about throwing like a girl, and she said that girls are physically inhibited can find positions and objectified.

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So we're looking at when babies are born, they and they start going through their to their preschool they see what they watch TV.

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They bought clothes that they're wearing. And there they are, they automatically assume that they can dream and they can smile and they can look pretty because that's what they should be doing that's what's acceptable by society.

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I'm not saying this happens to all parents do this but it's what we see around us all the time.

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And Joe paralytic in 2012 that was written a book about this pink, blue, and she said that it could have gone the other way so I'm really looking at so like the 1990s it could have gone the other way so there's no, there's no logical rationale for why

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there was this color shift and why children are continuing to use white but then why it isn't of these days it's not a very practical color for for young children and babies to wear so that's probably why why it wasn't continued to be used, but there

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other colors you like green, yellow, but yet, Joe has written. Another academic has written articles and books about it there's no logical reason for this to happen, which is why I sort of like pose that question to you, to see what do you think about

00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:30.000
why you think that might have been a reason for it.

00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:36.000
And I can see that most of you are saying that there's a lot about consumerism because

00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:48.000
if things are selling as a pink bicycle for will be sold for young girls.

00:33:48.000 --> 00:34:03.000
Then there's more pink bicycles as soon as a young girl sees a pink bicycle they'll say oh I want that because they're being used to wearing pink their clothes are pink the same smile be happy they want to thank you Bobby bicycle.

00:34:03.000 --> 00:34:14.000
And then the same with the boys, if they're saying, if you're looking at a toy shop and you have a look at the Lego. Most of the Lego is. Although go, obviously.

00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:25.000
Any child complaint with yet Lego but when you look at the Lego in the on the shelf you have, as soon as it gets just like girls like pink.

00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:39.000
And you've got houses and houses and there shouldn't I don't feel there should be any reason why should it be pink me let me look outside and we don't see pink houses three houses have brown.

00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:54.000
They've got fast moves or they're white, we don't see that that we don't see pink houses, whereas when you look at the Lego for Star Wars, for example, it's the actual colours that are in the film which is like the grays and the browns.

00:34:54.000 --> 00:35:15.000
So, these academics are talking about how the agenda roles are constructed so being constructed by society by us by consumers. And so we're all up to blame really for for what what is this happening at the moment.

00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:28.000
I'm going to move on to the LGBT q pride colours, that's represented here so the LGBT Q

00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:31.000
pride as being LGBT Q.

00:35:31.000 --> 00:35:53.000
History Month at the moment. Each of these colors represents a certain element, and the pride rainbow flag was again designed in the US came over from the US by Gilbert Baker, in 1978, and there's a symbol for the LGBT community.

00:35:53.000 --> 00:35:57.000
So, we have the rainbow colour starting with the red.

00:35:57.000 --> 00:36:04.000
That represents life. And then you have the orange healing. You have the sunlight of the yellow.

00:36:04.000 --> 00:36:18.000
And then you have nature, which is green. You got peace, blue and spirit, which is the violence or purple so I'm thinking about these colors if you go back to what I was talking about earlier.

00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:32.000
In this lecture we were talking about the child and Madonna was nearly always represented with Blue.

00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:39.000
And then, we're talking about the red which in some cases which Christ was wearing red we're talking about life.

00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:56.000
So, if we're looking at these colours here in the rainbow is also we can go back in time to the history of civilization civilization of colours and right back to those for humans to see how these colours are now use a sort of present day.

00:36:56.000 --> 00:37:02.000
So, the rainbow in history has symbolized harmony.

00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:12.000
It's hope. So when you have Noah's Ark Noah's Ark. I see this rainbow and as a sign of hope that there's going to be land on the rise and so it's like dreams hope.

00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:26.000
It's a promise of a better future and new beginnings as well, but it's also meant to represent solidarity and equality. So, this flag

00:37:26.000 --> 00:37:45.000
from America in 1978 But since then, there were some of you aware but we have a new flag, and which first started in 2018. And then in 2021 it was, it was altered slightly so we have this new flag and it's called the pride progress flag.

00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:49.000
And this has additional

00:37:49.000 --> 00:38:08.000
symbolism, added to the first LGBT q plus flag so we have the colours on the right hand side here which are the same as the previous slide, but also we have the black and the brown colours here and an arrow which represent people of colour.

00:38:08.000 --> 00:38:23.000
Then we have the blue and the pink and the white here, which represent trans. And then we also have this yellow triangle with the purple oval shape here which represents intersex.

00:38:23.000 --> 00:38:40.000
So those of you who are not familiar with intersects intersected intersex is neither male or female is all fits in in the in the middle there. So, in terms of biology someone who's intersex can have female and male biological organs.

00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:58.000
So, the flag that most people might see now is this new flag which you've got you've got an arrow here which, as you can see that the point of the, the black and the brown arrow pointing to the right and this represents progression and moving forward.

00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:04.000
And in 2021 this was designed this new fad here with the.

00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:23.000
the intersects section was designed by Valentino machete, and the pride progress flag was Daniel Quasar. So, I'm going to give you some quotes from Daniel just for the reasons why flag change.

00:39:23.000 --> 00:39:34.000
So, what he was saying is that they the arrow points to the right to show sort of like a forward movement, and to illustrate progress, and more progress still needs to be made.

00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:52.000
And he also says that this new design forces the viewer to reflect on their own feelings towards the original pride flag so a lot of us are used to seeing this rainbow colors of the original pride flag but LGBT q plus community and looking more outwards

00:39:52.000 --> 00:40:04.000
and being more inclusive by adding people of color and trans people and then intersects as well. So, the original pride flag has been developed further.

00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:18.000
So Daniel saying that there's different opinions on what the flag really means. But it needs to be bringing it into clear focus about the current needs within our community so we're talking about currently is.

00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:33.000
22 about what society, it is, this is, again, is in Western culture society in Western culture, and what it represents.

00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:46.000
Got some slides here with some resources on for you so there's a really good website called the LGBT q history month so if you want to find out more about LGBT q plus his website, go to.

00:40:46.000 --> 00:40:51.000
And there's the article there about the prime mark.

00:40:51.000 --> 00:41:00.000
And the sexist kids clothes. And there's also Stonewall that you can go to and find some information about LGBT Q.

00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:17.000
There's some further reading so I've got books here, and I know that Fiona is going to make the presentation available so there's some further reading there some books I was talking about but then Hartnell and young as well throwing like a girl so if

00:41:17.000 --> 00:41:23.000
you're interested in reading more about the theories behind this. Then there's there's some further reading to do.

00:41:23.000 --> 00:41:36.000
And there are also some courses that I'm doing coming up for the weekend. So on Saturday we have started the conversation using gender neutral pronouns which some of you might have been attended for the lectures.

00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:50.000
And then on the Sunday, we've got the pink or blue, and it's in a, although I'll be including some of the material from this lecture be more discussion based there'd be lots of opportunities.

00:41:50.000 --> 00:42:06.000
And then, please see the woman's body subjugation oppression which will be an interesting topic so I've got those ones coming up. And as moving on to q amp a open question time.

00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:19.000
I'm going to pass over to Fiona, and that's let's say thank you very much for listening to me and I'm having a look at the the chat here to answer some of your questions.

00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:32.000
So I'm just going to stop sharing so right Fiona. Yeah, that's absolutely fine. Thanks very much for that Rachel that was, that was really interesting right I'm going to just launch into some questions I need to scroll up so we've had lots and lots of

00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:34.000
comments which is fantastic.

00:42:34.000 --> 00:42:49.000
And no, let me see. I'm just going to sort of start from the top, basically, am right there with me, everybody.

00:42:49.000 --> 00:43:05.000
Right. It was a question from make and it's when you were sort of talking about that the history of of the sort of colours, and he's asking why is all about pink and blue did people never were other colours.

00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:13.000
Um, people wore other colours. If you look at, look, I'm talking about sort of like babies and young children.

00:43:13.000 --> 00:43:17.000
Prior to the 1990s.

00:43:17.000 --> 00:43:20.000
General lots of different colours were used.

00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:38.000
So more gender neutral colours but it's not until recently, this pink, blue, has been more dominant as colours for male and female young children, and it's just interesting to find out why this is the case that considering where we think that we're more

00:43:38.000 --> 00:43:47.000
more progressive we look at the price flag and we are we're, we're really progressive we've, we've added extra colours to the pride flag to show how inclusive we are.

00:43:47.000 --> 00:43:53.000
Whereas, we're going backwards a step backwards in terms of how we're addressing children.

00:43:53.000 --> 00:44:00.000
And what how we're talking to our children and what toys they're playing with and what they're watching on TV.

00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:07.000
Okay. And, okay. A question from gene.

00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:17.000
And it's when you were talking about those patterns that you got you know those sort of kids, and the patterns, and you could still see the girls and blue.

00:44:17.000 --> 00:44:20.000
I think it was going back into the 50s and 60s.

00:44:20.000 --> 00:44:22.000
Could the blue have been denim.

00:44:22.000 --> 00:44:26.000
which I guess is unisex.

00:44:26.000 --> 00:44:32.000
Yeah, denim is a unisex Yeah.

00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:37.000
And there's also damage, it can be other colours content can be black and.

00:44:37.000 --> 00:44:38.000
Yeah.

00:44:38.000 --> 00:44:39.000
Okay.

00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:51.000
Um, a question from Sue, actually this is a really interesting one. What is the norm, and other cultures and Diana Harvey was also asking, you know, a similar question.

00:44:51.000 --> 00:45:12.000
What about in the Far East, for example, how do we see these kinds of this kind of binary kind of pink and blue thing happening and other cultures, we don't we don't tend to see this as much which is why as I emphasize this is a Western culture, because

00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:23.000
we're talking about consumerism as well, and the western capitalist culture of consumerism and if you look at the Far East, if you look at.

00:45:23.000 --> 00:45:26.000
If you look at Afghanistan as an example.

00:45:26.000 --> 00:45:30.000
The women in Afghanistan, often wear.

00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:50.000
What is most popular colour is black, and then you can also see the dark blue. And it's totally different culture to the Western culture in terms of what is available to buy in the shops and what is available for clothing what's available for books, and

00:45:50.000 --> 00:46:07.000
what's available for for toys, we, we think we have a choice, we haven't big choice but if you go to your local JoJo, my mom, baby I think that's who they are, and I'm going there want to buy something for a grandchild.

00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:17.000
You just got in front of you, you just got the pink and blue there well I don't think I would just buy something, gender neutral you don't have a lot of choice so we think we've got choice when we haven't actually.

00:46:17.000 --> 00:46:24.000
I think that's something that we need to do we need to change that we need to challenge that.

00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:25.000
Okay.

00:46:25.000 --> 00:46:35.000
And a question from Sylvia. Now this is talking about the pride flag and the change the recent change to the flag.

00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:47.000
And so he's asking quite that the flag needs to be amended the words life healing, except a couple of people of every color and religion surely does it need to be explained and expanded.

00:46:47.000 --> 00:47:08.000
That's an interesting question because the the pride flag was created in the 1970s. And if you think back about feminism feminism, and in the 1970s 60s and 70s was presumably predominantly white women.

00:47:08.000 --> 00:47:26.000
If you look at Greenham common there was white women. So, what the the pride movement has looked at and reflected on is that we don't, they don't want to be represented as white Western pride in got to include everybody regardless of who they are.

00:47:26.000 --> 00:47:38.000
So, which is why we have those additional colours, and it's reflected in what we what we do in society today as well in Western society.

00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:39.000
Yeah.

00:47:39.000 --> 00:47:41.000
Interesting.

00:47:41.000 --> 00:47:58.000
Okay. No, we've got a little bit of time here, and noting was actually asking whether you could maybe say a little bit about gender neutral pronouns, just know because we've probably got some people on the lecture today that weren't around, and on the

00:47:58.000 --> 00:48:14.000
previous one, that you did on this. And I don't know whether you can maybe talk a little bit about the gender neutral pronouns that we have no gender, inclusive pronouns, as they and them.

00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:35.000
So, if you are me not for my, my name and zoom for example I've put my pronouns which is she in her, which are the pronouns that I use. And so some people may not use those pronouns, they may use the and them, and if you see someone, especially if you're

00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:48.000
in a zoom session and you see someone who's got the them pronouns, it means they want to be identified as gender neutral and they don't want to be referred to as he or she they want to refer to as they.

00:48:48.000 --> 00:49:10.000
So it's about respecting someone's identity and and being so respectful unkind to everybody. And you might find that them you come across more people now in the media, who refer to their identity as they are them so it's something that a lot of young

00:49:10.000 --> 00:49:30.000
people are questioning at the moment as well so the figures also one in 10, young people identify as gender neutral in terms of the them pronouns, so that's something that you would be, could come across perhaps with your, your children or grandchildren,

00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:44.000
that you can have a discussion with without feeling that you aren't you don't have the knowledge or you're not aware or haven't heard of these that you know the pronouns before.

00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:53.000
Yeah. Okay, now I'm just trying to find another wasn't so much question it was more comment that I thought was really interesting. Hold on one second.

00:49:53.000 --> 00:50:03.000
And, yeah, this was a comment from Linda what ends up that you don't mind me mentioning this one. And it's coming back to sort of coming back to sort of gender stereotypes.

00:50:03.000 --> 00:50:15.000
And that is the CD that the freeze Boys Don't Cry have led to many issues with mental well being and the higher levels of suicide and men, especially young man, this man way to express emotions.

00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:19.000
I don't know if you've got any thoughts around that.

00:50:19.000 --> 00:50:34.000
No, I remember when my oldest was at school and, and I had, there was something happened to the primary school, I had to go in and add a discussion with the head teacher, and he just said to me Oh boys will be boys.

00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:49.000
And so I looked at him and I thought, What are you talking about boys will be boys. And I just thought it was such an awful thing to say, Oh, it's an excuse boys can go fight and bully each other because they're Boys, boys, girls can be girl so that they

00:50:49.000 --> 00:51:06.000
wouldn't be allowed to do that type of thing in the playground. So, isn't it is excusing their behaviour. So yes it is there's a lot of people still think like that so if people think that you to if you show kindness, or you should have feelings that's

00:51:06.000 --> 00:51:06.000
a sign of weakness.

00:51:06.000 --> 00:51:26.000
of weakness. And that's where I was coach coming to when I was talking about the prime up, clothing, and the the male and female stereotypes on there and the wording wordings that are used on that clothing for boys, for example, be brave and fearless

00:51:26.000 --> 00:51:41.000
girls smile and be kind. So, I mean I hopefully that the people that are here now when you're thinking, next time you thinking about buying clothes for your children or your grandchildren you look at these look online at by Marco and when you go into

00:51:41.000 --> 00:51:46.000
the IP coming up and and probably aren't going to buy something new.

00:51:46.000 --> 00:52:01.000
There's not going to have all these words on it but the pink smile. Are you gonna have a look at for a really good t shirt, it's got a track to order and it's green and you're going to give it to your granddaughter, you know, so you do something, you

00:52:01.000 --> 00:52:09.000
can challenge this as well. And I think you might be I mean I'm going to that situation life where I've got grandchildren, but I'm just thinking.

00:52:09.000 --> 00:52:20.000
When I have grandchildren and daughter in law and dresses the child in baby pink over time, I would probably find it quite difficult. So why would intervene.

00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:34.000
But then, I probably be told that I'm interfering so it's quite difficult isn't it because you can buy when the grandchildren come to you, you can dress them in what you think is is appropriate, but when they go home then.

00:52:34.000 --> 00:52:49.000
It's quite a different story and then it could, you could end up in a few arguments with family, but I think you do have to challenge. These, these binaries and you have to think about the welfare of the children as well and the girls need to be brave

00:52:49.000 --> 00:53:00.000
and they need to be fearless just as much as, boys, was like my little niece, and my two year old niece she wears her big brother's hand me downs. So yes, yeah.

00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:06.000
And now we've got another comment here so got a few minutes, and this is from Louisa.

00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:18.000
And there's a huge gender stereotyping in ways that restrict people have both sexes. When the trans conflicts with so much less if we went to binary in first place.

00:53:18.000 --> 00:53:21.000
Chase then comment.

00:53:21.000 --> 00:53:24.000
I'm

00:53:24.000 --> 00:53:27.000
sorry I was looking at the chat Can you repeat that please.

00:53:27.000 --> 00:53:43.000
Yeah, so, and Louisa was saying there is a huge, gender, there's huge gender stereotyping in ways that restrict people both sexes. And when the trans conflict, be so much less if we weren't so binary in the first place.

00:53:43.000 --> 00:54:00.000
Yeah, that is true that and that's what we're trying to work towards in terms of our Western culture and society, especially with the example of that pride flag, but you got to think about if we're very fortunate in this country and in the Western society.

00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:12.000
And there's other countries across the world that don't have that freedom. And for example, we've got the Winter Olympics at the moment in China, and our athletes have been told.

00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:28.000
Do not talk about anything regarding net gender or anything contentious, and the same if any sports are happening in Russia. Then again, they have to be have to be really careful athletes have to be really careful about what they say and how they act

00:54:28.000 --> 00:54:38.000
which you shouldn't have to be like that but that's, that's how it is globally so we have to think about we're really fortunate to be in society where we do have that freedom, but we don't.

00:54:38.000 --> 00:54:59.000
On the other hand, we don't want to fall into that consumerism trap of saying that our young girls are got to be kind and touchy feely whereas our young boys aren't allowed to do that they aren't allowed to cry because it's, it's not, it's not manly.

00:54:59.000 --> 00:55:06.000
So, we need to be thinking about what we're doing as well in a Western society not to fall into that trap.

00:55:06.000 --> 00:55:19.000
Okay. Now let me see if there's anything else that's coming a little bit later. No, I think we've got through most things. We've got lots and lots of comments for you.

00:55:19.000 --> 00:55:38.000
And not just with our family bakers or I'd love to do research on family bakers because I'd have to try all the cakes as well you see. Yeah, I did a PhD for seven years, eating a lot of cases to taste them also with the pink cake tastes different to blue

00:55:38.000 --> 00:55:44.000
cake. Yeah that's quite it's quite an interesting point that Norman's making there listen to it. Yeah.

00:55:44.000 --> 00:55:53.000
Yeah, they are they are gender but wouldn't that be the case of, if you are asking a baker to create a cake for your daughter's birthday you would tell them what colors you want.

00:55:53.000 --> 00:56:05.000
And when you go to the supermarket you wouldn't buy one that's got pink on me by something that's not clear chocolate covered so so it's up to you in that sense of what you asked the baker to create for you.

00:56:05.000 --> 00:56:10.000
Yeah, might be useful for it for research though.

00:56:10.000 --> 00:56:11.000
Yeah.

00:56:11.000 --> 00:56:17.000
And. Okay, let's have a look just to see.

00:56:17.000 --> 00:56:20.000
Yeah, this is an interesting comment from.

00:56:20.000 --> 00:56:30.000
And when children are in school the opinions of siblings affect children and probably feel comfortable with an interesting point.

00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:38.000
I think that I suppose their peers as well. Yes, that's a good point about schools because a school uniform.

00:56:38.000 --> 00:56:45.000
It has changed a bit over the last few years but it's still very much in terms of that binary.

00:56:45.000 --> 00:57:01.000
The boys for example won't be encouraged to wear skirts to school, and the young girls can wear skirts and, and they can wear trousers, but the boys aren't allowed to wear skirts, and there was a case I think it was last year, the year before, where some

00:57:01.000 --> 00:57:12.000
of the boys in the high school came into school and in dresses and skirts Didn't they, they were told to go home and change

00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:19.000
schools is a p kids. If you notice that the P kids, boys and girls that don't wear the same.

00:57:19.000 --> 00:57:30.000
And also, in terms of what activities they do in PE, you'll notice in in high schools in primary schools are basically the same activities in high school.

00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:39.000
It's still the fact that girls will be doing that ball trampolining, and then boys will be doing football rugby.

00:57:39.000 --> 00:57:44.000
And then if girls want to do football they can be as an extra curricular activity.

00:57:44.000 --> 00:58:02.000
Yeah. And another interesting point here actually. And obviously quite relevant to myself, and Scotland we have men and kilts. So, yeah, So that's another reason why because we have Scott says no reason why men can't wear skirts,

00:58:02.000 --> 00:58:15.000
but they don't, you don't see many men wearing skirts because it's not accepted so socially it's not accepted if you wear a kilt but when you go to wedding so that's accepted.

00:58:15.000 --> 00:58:17.000
But otherwise it wouldn't be.

00:00:02.000 --> 00:00:12.000
There we go. So recording. So, Jackie, I think, the floor is yours. Thank you very much. Let's do the famous screen share or being well.

00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:25.000
It's lovely to watch spot one or two familiar faces in our audience this afternoon and thank you very much indeed to the WA for many, many things, not only just the opportunity to talk to you to members this afternoon.

00:00:25.000 --> 00:00:32.000
So we have got a poet film is going to share with you, and any second now

00:00:32.000 --> 00:00:38.000
appears I'll just talk a little bit about myself. In terms of family history.

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And

00:00:41.000 --> 00:00:58.000
there you go. So if you, some of you can manage to fill that in while you're listening I'm just going to chatter on about the fellas mentioned the second career so I was put on the scrap heap from a very pressured administrative career, and the WA gate

00:00:58.000 --> 00:01:16.000
with the chance to teach and train as an adult education tutor and without the confidence that the family history students in the who have given me, I would have never done all these different events such as teaching on a cruise, not at all what I anticipated

00:01:16.000 --> 00:01:21.000
when I first lost my job.

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So, I'm just looking at the number of poles going in. So what we're going to do this afternoon to talk a little bit about the theory.

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And then we're also going to look at the results, what you can achieve and very briefly how, because it is terrific fun.

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And on the polls are still coming in so we have a voluntary element. When I started, I was a member of a family history society, and now it's huge so roots tech you can see on screen is run by the church of Latter Day Saints.

00:01:56.000 --> 00:02:17.000
And last year when they did it they had 3.4 million delegates worldwide enter right i think Fiona we've got the most people that are going to answer have answered me, are you able to see the results Jackie, I am yes indeed so the TV series of course,

00:02:17.000 --> 00:02:37.000
like most TV series catapulted, the hobby, if we can call it that into a wider exposure and also encourage people to have a little investigation and those that had already done it suddenly began to realize the potential out there, house through time has

00:02:37.000 --> 00:02:50.000
done a similar thing for House District, which again was something that happened before. None of this is new. It's just a revamp. And then we have the major website so ancestry.

00:02:50.000 --> 00:03:05.000
Find my passengers to the huge American site by Matt pasties British Scottish, I'll just give that a plug seat knowing where Filner is, and I'm sure we've got some people from Scotland where this family search Church of Latter Day Saints and some of you

00:03:05.000 --> 00:03:11.000
don't know anything at all. And so that's super will take you through that.

00:03:11.000 --> 00:03:16.000
So the theory of doing family history is extremely easy.

00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:37.000
We start with one document, and that's your own birth certificate, this is not mine. Please note, I hope I don't look as if I was born in 1980, but the fat Mozart's 1918 should trigger signpost to you that there will be first world war records to investigate.

00:03:37.000 --> 00:03:45.000
So that's what you do you start with your own family knowledge we work from the known to the unknown is the strategy.

00:03:45.000 --> 00:03:54.000
And we then can build it going one way or the other. By that I mean, the male and the female line.

00:03:54.000 --> 00:04:11.000
And we want to chart it so you can do something colorful like this, which is more attractive and perhaps encouraging to people when nice stylized colorful tree, or if you were in one of my beginners classes for the WEA.

00:04:11.000 --> 00:04:22.000
This is the type of document, I'd be giving you. So I'd want you to put yourself there. And I'd want to slay this to put your name, when you were born with.

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Because your that your husband is part of your backwards tree from your birth certificate we get the name of your parents so they would go in there and again your mother in her maiden name, the name she's born with.

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And the evidence for that has come from your birth certificate.

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If you get your parents marriage certificate then, Up until recently we only got father's on it.

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And we could then get from the two fathers, going back a generation. And then when we get your parents birth certificates we get my dad again. And so we roll back through various records.

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So this birth brief as we call it, is there to keep you focused and also to show you, gaps and encourage you to work chronologically.

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So this chart graph of sauces would actually designed by one of my very first students 20 odd years ago, and it's still going strong with a few tweaks.

00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:38.000
And of course, none of this was created for the family historian, they were created for other reasons.

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So, let's go at the strategy we build a skeleton tree from your own, and family knowledge, don't forget to ask family and neighbors, you might get the juicy truth from neighbors.

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Think about this if the system in of civil registration which we have now birth marriage and death certificates. We which that England and Wales started in 1837, and we have indexes to those to see a certificate, you have to buy it.

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Alongside that in government records we have the census and we've had all the excitement to the 1921 sensors coming out.

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And because the 1931 census was destroyed in a fire by accident, and the 1940 census wasn't taken because of the war.

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So we're going to have a massive gap between 1921 and 1951 which is when the next one comes out. If we are here to know about it, then to go further back what we call a magic date of 1837, then we use church records and these are called parish registers.

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The system was set up in 1538, and it's designed to record a baptism, not a birth, a marriage, per se, and burial, as opposed to a death.

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And if everybody's where they should be under the names that we expect them to be in this really easy, you just to Colombo, like that.

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But of course, there for some people for the younger people doing family history from me from them to the 1921 sensors can be quite a gap.

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We now have the 1939 register which filters in there, and also gives cross referencing evidence and we'll look at that in a minute.

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We need to recording system has shown you that very basic birth brief, but also we need something a little more, prompting such as names occupations birth, death, marriage date and place.

00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:12.000
We need to build the life of the person, because that's what's interesting what did they do what was their place in history, what was going on around them.

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And these are some very basic forms yet again, that will go to one of my beginners classes.

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But of course nowadays we do things on computer we combine it with paper there's nothing like having a piece of paper, but with a computer program we can put photographs in easily as you can see here, we can alter it is a link.

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We can tell our sources easily because we must know where we got the information from if we want to double check it. And of course we want to print it out we might want to share it family, friends, And this is a basic timeline the computer prints out

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whatever you've chosen to put in sources, etc.

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you've chosen to put in sources, etc. And it can reference it and create a bibliography, as well.

00:09:01.000 --> 00:09:11.000
And we want the tree, because that's attractive, but those of you have never done any family history might look at this and think, Okay, that looks fine.

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And if you've done it will know what a lot of hard work could have gone into this. And we also want to survive beyond us. So maybe putting in a background image like this, of the church that was key to this family.

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You can print this out on color printers these days are have it printed for you and get it framed and it can hang on the wall as a significant anniversary present maybe.

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But not everything wants to be done by computer so some of you might rather like embroidery, as this lady on the left it, these squares, which is illustrate pieces of her family history, and they're in wall hangings, you might like scrapbooking done my

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house history in the middle there, because we don't want this to be thrown away.

00:10:01.000 --> 00:10:17.000
And if you're a creative writer, then get on with it right but up and tell us why you want to do it, and record the story, and hopefully that will live on, and be an heirloom of the future.

00:10:17.000 --> 00:10:29.000
So, our basic documents then I've already suggested, your own birth certificate from that we are specifically looking for the former name of the mother.

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In this case, case why clock or Whitlock spelling variants or something we need to get used to. For a said this is first of all daughter certificate. I actually bought off eBay, as I did this one.

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And so the marriage certificate as we've said, gives you the fathers of the bride and groom. In this case, it says they're deceased. Now, first of all I will question whether they were ever alive because people do, it's an official document that they're

00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:08.000
not forced to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:25.000
So we've got the next generation back on the maternal paternal side, we also want to get the birth certificates for the bride and groom. And we're going to look at their ages and take that away from the year of marriage, but in this case this lady appears

00:11:25.000 --> 00:11:41.000
to be marrying somebody who's a little bit younger than her. That is that true. No, ladies and gentlemen, it isn't. She is fudging the truth, she's a little bit older than she says, So we never believe.

00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:48.000
Don't take it at face value of, initially, but check and check and check.

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Now we need to what we call kill people off. We can't build a tree from somebody that dies at five. So again, you've got to buy these things but pinpoint them in the indexes.

00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:18.000
And if you don't get the certificate, you might miss something interesting that has happened to this part chap. He came to a sticky and why I use this certificate is because this is an industrial accident as you might call it.

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So we've got the coroner involved in the potential of coroner's records, but they'll also be reports in newspapers, of the x and the inquest, and we gain more information.

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I mentioned the 39 register.

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This is a one off. On the night of the 29th of sep tember 1939 designed to issue, Russian cards to include everybody in theory, but not military because they would be on camps and they are separately.

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This was used to set up the NHS, and was used as a regular document until 1921 show you an image next but you'll see there's lots of blood clients on it.

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And that's because those people are not known to be deceased, or 100, years. And one day, old, the websites differ. I haven't got time to go into that today, but I've just mentioned some update monthly or annually.

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And this is what the 39 register looks like. So similar to a census but not the same.

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And you've got these black lines that change so it's not static document, couple of the things that are really useful and infamous informative from this is when a lady marriage because it was used by the NHS as I said her name change will be recorded.

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Because she could be married previously as well. And we also get some indication of voluntary activities in the Second World War. So this is an auxiliary fire brigade person.

00:14:02.000 --> 00:14:07.000
Again, a signpost to something to follow up.

00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:22.000
And then our big and most rewarding document set is the census, where we get people together in a household. So I'm going to start at the other end at the beginning, where we get a very simple form.

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We have to analyze the records we're looking at you may spot with to john Dawson's will appear to live next door to each other but that's not true.

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And they're not dissimilar in ages. But we may be able to identify them by their occupations, or by family names because we have this thing called naming patterns.

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And every 10 years we have had the census as I've said, and its people in a household but not necessarily a house. It could be a ship, a barracks of prison school.

00:14:56.000 --> 00:15:09.000
We're always getting the relationship to the head. And we're looking for names ages were born, and other information to to get to fun providers with knowledge to work more.

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And we must check every single thing because people didn't tell the truth, and maybe didn't know, they weren't filling forms in left, right and center.

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So they genuinely might not know.

00:15:23.000 --> 00:15:42.000
This is what a census form looks like it's not the primary document. The primary ones were destroyed, but it's those people in the household in a place page after page copy to these forms, you're getting a household in this case so far.

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You get, we can see that it's one occupied property, and we get the relationships of people so grandson whereas his parents, their status that ages. The other side of the farm shows us that occupations, and what's it really important for going backwards,

00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:18.000
is where they were born, so that we can go back to find them as children as babies are your reason was, think about the context of records, why are they taking census is of course for civil provision.

00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:31.000
But in the 1911 census there was the suffragette movement, and some people as this one didn't actually fill the form in, they saying there's no persons here only women.

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The other thing about the 1911 census which is different is the anxiety about infant mortality. So they are taking a poll of the number of how long people have been married, the number of children that were born alive, still living and have died, and

00:16:51.000 --> 00:17:03.000
that enables you to pinpoint, all those children, they don't always find dias children, of course, they could dies and no adult before this.

00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:22.000
And the 1921 well what's all the fuss been about well, I couldn't wait to see my parents in it, and well only half because my mother chose to come in later in the year but she sort of their, in a way, and there was an industrial and arrest, there was

00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:37.000
the threat of strike the coal miners were on strike. And so they move the date as you can see on here, and you might recognize the names on this sentence census return that's been Beatrix Potter.

00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:48.000
So we get, and we have of course the effects of the First World War, and we've always had more me women than men but particularly in 1921.

00:17:48.000 --> 00:18:01.000
So what did he do for me well I enhance the childhood memory of going on holiday with my grandparents, and to Lincolnshire, and I couldn't remember them, what the hotel was.

00:18:01.000 --> 00:18:18.000
But in the 1911 sent 21 census based upon, we get the addresses we do in the others. I was then able to look it up in Google, as you can see here, we get this time the first time we get the companies that our ancestors are working for.

00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:25.000
We've got a lot more women working because they've been working in the First World War, they don't want to give it up.

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And I was thrilled to say, one of my working for Rotary's, the village trust this is the movement for better housing which is also underway in 1921.

00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:56.000
And of course for a lot of people, their pets are part of the family. And in this case we haven't got the name of the king, but some that people do, but we have It's Paul prunes indelibly recorded for the future.

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We also get the route the census, and then we can sort of chart the areas of done with this one round Hastings.

00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:17.000
And we're going to share with you in the members room, this website list, which is broken down into the three sections, and I'm not going to talk about it here.

00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:21.000
Let's get on with some results.

00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:24.000
So our final section of records.

00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:29.000
Main three, the records of the church.

00:19:29.000 --> 00:19:38.000
And for the first time, you may well not find them online. And you may be faced with reading them, the scale of Palio Griffey.

00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:56.000
Here is an example of a certain time period where we get no father's, no indication of parents, we still get some signatures which I'm very keen on, but this is a single entity, we have a baptism, we have a marriage, we have a burial.

00:19:56.000 --> 00:20:02.000
We do not have anything tying them together, other than our skills.

00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:21.000
They are the Church of England records them. And we have to remember that between 1754 and 1837 missing lots of key dates in my history, and everybody is marrying the Church of England, apart from Quakers, and Jews.

00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:33.000
So if you have a Catholic ancestry, and Methodist Moravia Sweden bulk. They are not married, in the Church of England, they have no choice to have a legal marriage.

00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:49.000
These records will not be in the church, other than the current book, they will be in what we call a diocesan record office and protective care, but a lot of them are coming online, more

00:20:49.000 --> 00:21:04.000
and talked about mentioned, geography, and this is a bit dire. We grumble about transcriptions, but look at that. Imagine trying to read that forward with the commercial companies matching try to read it for your family names.

00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:14.000
Nobody thought these records were going to be worth millions of pounds quite literally, and they weren't all kept, they weren't all cat very well.

00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:28.000
And sometimes you do find extra information, even though it might be a bit tricky to read. So we various versions. And this one does give you causes of death which you don't always see.

00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:42.000
So we have a couple of ladies dying of consumption, which of course was prolific, and my ancestor who was a London retry proprietor. Unfortunately was an alcoholic.

00:21:42.000 --> 00:22:01.000
Now another source that is very important for us, year after year is electoral registered we've already referred to the suffragette movement. But if you watch gentlemen jack and next week's talk will enhance this topic.

00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:25.000
In 19 8032, the last specific specified males only an unlisted was not too pleased about that, and it stays that way until 1928, when we get universal suffrage for men and women over 21, and I've just shown you an example here, where you can pick up a

00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:47.000
couple because they are there in 1928, and then you can work out backwards and forwards maps are another super source. And we have a wonderful facility provided by the National Library of Scotland, all free Ordnance Survey maps for the whole country.

00:22:47.000 --> 00:22:58.000
There are some international maps on there too, but we have what we call the geo referenced ones where you can slide and time travel by this little bar at the bottom.

00:22:58.000 --> 00:23:06.000
So I've taken you to Norfolk here. Look at the church. If we then Google or other maps are available.

00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:19.000
There is the church at the bottom, and we can place our ancestors on the ground, might be a car park, it may still be a house that stands.

00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:21.000
We've other sources to.

00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:41.000
So top left is deeds property records, bottom, left is newspapers, with gravestones obviously very useful if you get a family together. The lady in the middle we can data by the actual composition of the material of the photograph but also her costume.

00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:54.000
And the one to the right is a will. Once a will go through probate, it becomes a public document, and is invaluable for family history research.

00:23:54.000 --> 00:24:07.000
We have digital newspapers in the is often add color as this one where to speak and personally would baptize married a burial buried a lot of my family in Yorkshire.

00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:26.000
He also liked the typical, he tended to drink the community of wine. And then he fell asleep in its own service, and he eventually was taken to the church courts and lost his living, very interesting to read about military records of course we have a

00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:44.000
lot on the first 1212, they are public documents. Second World War is beginning to become available, there's a lot happening on that front. At the moment, so we've war memorials diaries and specific church ones in the middle, middle cards and pictures

00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:48.000
just illustrated here,

00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:55.000
and things that we can do office at archives and what I'm just going to show you there is the results of some of these searches.

00:24:55.000 --> 00:25:08.000
This is the National Archives at CUNY the gardens, which is full of treasures, one for our family. Some is digitized, but not all by any means.

00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:21.000
And this we do more and more research, it's harder to find people, it's really easy I'll be well when you start, but those peaks of success and excitement, increase.

00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:40.000
So, these two little bits of paper behind here, prove that my great grandfather went to school in that iconic building there so Paul lad from Portsmouth went to school at Greenwich a bit like a workout in many respects.

00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:58.000
The thing that was most useful was his father had to prove his Royal Navy career, every ship he was on, and the day to join the date he left that he was pensioned out in 1830 which will be unusual for anybody to have a pension.

00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:04.000
And then I could track work through log books, crew less and find the ship.

00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:09.000
So he was on the ship on the left cruising the Caribbean.

00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:21.000
In 1810, I am 2014 cruise the British Isles, not ship, so it was all in my jeans, very exciting.

00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:39.000
Perhaps your family were agricultural one so it's great depression in agriculture, not so bad in the north of England where I am because it was great competition for employment, but maybe around sisters emigrated move to the coal mines in the north, or

00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:45.000
perhaps went into service. And this is my husband's great grandfather.

00:26:45.000 --> 00:27:00.000
He was in service, he's the bass player in the middle there very posh very rich house so look at the livery on those footman, and he will eventually pinnacle of his career was to be a butler in America.

00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:12.000
In this mansion you see here, which was a wedding present for the owners rather posh nothing whatsoever survives of it today.

00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:32.000
And what's the biggest collection of paper and ephemera in the world. Well, e Bay, and it cost me bits about over the years, a nice pair of distressed chairs I think would be fair to say they were in Portsmouth and that but they were made my my family.

00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:52.000
They still in Portsmouth I think the nice received the bottom left so that signed by one of my ancestors again made its way online, and I was able to buy that back for not very much tall and nice postcard sent to one of family member, made census.

00:27:52.000 --> 00:28:07.000
So, again, interesting. It was a household of director, and something pops a little more interesting was this case, watch that one of my family firms had made that turned up on eBay.

00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:11.000
Again, I've got all sorts from eBay.

00:28:11.000 --> 00:28:20.000
We have the opportunity to travel a picture on the left is actually of the settle Carlisle railway.

00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:30.000
you'll know about interface and all that sort of thing. And but I was interested specifically because my family lived in a village underneath the ripple had fired up.

00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:41.000
And I wonder, do they think this is going to be an iconic industrial relic for the future, or do they think, Well, I saw that building in this beautiful countryside.

00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:58.000
We were actually going up to call our record office which you can see at the bottom left, where they've built a full all singing all dancing archive that's the modern building, but they've built it in the grounds of an old Hall, which was renovated and

00:28:58.000 --> 00:29:01.000
now is where you can get married.

00:29:01.000 --> 00:29:19.000
I've mentioned Polly or Griffey earlier. And this looks perhaps like a spider's been across it, but it is a will, and it's a will have a lady who might be my ancestor, and to have him 1593 she's uncomfortable lady.

00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:34.000
She is either a spinster, or a widow, because otherwise she doesn't have anything to leave. When you think about the married women's property act anything was that was hers, as a married lady is her husband's till we get to see in this locality, what

00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:54.000
So we get to see in this locality, what a lady of sorts of social strata has in her possessions, and she's leaving them all to her daughters who are named in this there are 11, family members, listed tying them together in 1592.

00:29:54.000 --> 00:29:59.000
And I'm don't expect. I know some of you will be able to read it.

00:29:59.000 --> 00:30:10.000
And, but one of the things she is leaving here is a candlestick, which is the second word candles.

00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:24.000
And what it's made of is pewter, and she goes through talking about cloth and other family, and other household items that she's leaving.

00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:37.000
And this is going much further back and I talked about how the media catapults interested in about new archaeology anything like that. This is Elizabeth Woodville.

00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:51.000
The White Queen, and she is there saying, I Queen Elizabeth late wife to be excellent Prince Edward, the 5678, I think

00:30:51.000 --> 00:31:06.000
technology plays a big part in family history, which is good it's motivation to learn these skills, and you can still go to libraries, you don't have to buy these things that you can do it economically.

00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:25.000
This is the national newspaper building which happens to be in Yorkshire, where all the Beano down the down your way magazines as well as the times and any English news, speaking newspaper is kept in atmospheric conditions here with the cranes that move

00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:37.000
at 35 miles an hour and I've kept in 19% oxygen in the dark. And this lady is scanning for the 1921 census.

00:31:37.000 --> 00:31:54.000
Now DNA is something I'm sure if you've done any family history with turn your TV on ancestry particularly will be advertising DNA. Now that's not a thing for me I don't, not very keen on it, but I have done my DNA mail letter prove I was my mother's

00:31:54.000 --> 00:32:06.000
child which I most definitely. Um, but you can see if you watch the long lost families born without trace the meaningful work in DNA, Richard the third there.

00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:19.000
And it may be something but I would just say, bear in mind, it can be exciting, but it can also open up a can of worms.

00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:41.000
So newspapers, and maybe you can use this to illustrate, and put flesh on the bones, as we call it. So here you have a Yorkshire railway station. down at the bottom you have the exact right images of the train that railway historian provided for me that

00:32:41.000 --> 00:32:52.000
my ancestors went on their honeymoon. As you can see the 18th of February 1880 so just in a few days days or two that we're getting ready for the marriage just now.

00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:58.000
They wouldn't have gone down there and six, they've got all this railway which would have been pretty salty.

00:32:58.000 --> 00:33:10.000
The Underground has opened but I don't think they'd have gone there in their meal. They really nice clothes. And I know this information from the digital from the local newspapers.

00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:19.000
But of course, a lot on now. Did you saw, and we can do it from the comfort of our own home.

00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:37.000
Just to remind you to be careful with your possessions to think about conservation. So here are my children's christening outfits wrapped up in acid free paper and labeled accordingly, because they have done the archaeology bit with the ruler was my son,

00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:41.000
it was now 35 ever that tiny.

00:33:41.000 --> 00:34:03.000
You can see there we don't want bugs, eating it loss and things like that, textiles I'm illustrating but also we've got paper and other ephemera, and this is a Valentine, that has survived from 1836, and it says affectionately your lover, 1234, and he

00:34:03.000 --> 00:34:09.000
did get his lady bug is kept father preserved for the future.

00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:27.000
So why do we do it well it's tremendous fun, it's tremendously frustrating. We have the thrill of the chase the sense of satisfaction where we find it and we nailed the person I will find the next step to build a tree.

00:34:27.000 --> 00:34:39.000
And we're also putting our families in historical context they may not be rich and famous, they may be just the salt of the earth. They all have their place.

00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:49.000
And in many ways, that's what the WA stands for isn't it, you're all members you know this builds your confidence keeps your brain active which is very important.

00:34:49.000 --> 00:35:02.000
We can share it be part of the community can have said the sense of achievement and practical skills look as old zoom link to a half years ago we know about such things.

00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:13.000
And the skills we need. Well, we need to be that detective, we need to think where do we go now what what proof of we got put yourself in the witness stand.

00:35:13.000 --> 00:35:16.000
Is this true is false with their blight.

00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:31.000
And if a lady's in a delicate position, what would she have done, be that creative writer and try and think, what would have happened to how did she get out of this situation, or whatever.

00:35:31.000 --> 00:35:49.000
I keep building that tree, going from yourself backwards, working through all the different records and adding more people in maybe keeping your main line going, but sometimes you need to go around to round the stumbling block some people call it a brick

00:35:49.000 --> 00:35:55.000
wall, but you've got to be nearly always a way to work.

00:35:55.000 --> 00:36:13.000
And that really in a nutshell, is what family history is all about a lot more to it than I have time for. If you'd like to do some family history courses, please look at the web website and Tobago so you need to be creative to work it but it's out there.

00:36:13.000 --> 00:36:27.000
And if not, if you'd like to know more about what I'm doing. You can look at my website which was created during a wa course for creating websites. So thank you very much for listening.

00:36:27.000 --> 00:36:37.000
Thank you to the Wi Fi for this, which unity to share and sing about all that. All that they do. Thank you very much.

00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:47.000
Thanks very much Jackie. That was really quite fascinating I hope everybody enjoyed that and a great insight, I think into how it all works and the different sources that we can look to.

00:36:47.000 --> 00:37:02.000
And if we want to trace it on family history. So we've got some questions Jackie so folks keep them coming in, and we'll we'll get through as many of them as we can start from the top.

00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:08.000
No, I guess this is a really fundamental question, and this is a question from loading.

00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:21.000
Are there any sites where you don't have to pay to access records. Absolutely. Certainly, again we will give you the website list in the members room afterwards but they're not everything has to be paid for, but certain things have because to bring it

00:37:21.000 --> 00:37:33.000
They're not everything has to be paid for, but certain things have because to bring it to the public is very expensive. The 1921 Well of course millions it's a multi million pound project.

00:37:33.000 --> 00:37:51.000
So, the birth marriage is death. We've got something called Phoebe MD we've got a website called GQK mentioned briefly you could go to like your local library, and you and use ancestry some libraries have found out past family search all is free.

00:37:51.000 --> 00:37:53.000
So the answer is yes.

00:37:53.000 --> 00:38:10.000
Yeah, okay. And we'll post all these sources up beside the recording of the lecture. And once we've got everything together and ready. And so thanks for that M, Jackie, and no few questions around the 1921 senses so one from Colin, and which countries

00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:26.000
of the British Isles that actually covered by the census is all of them or some of them, or 1921 the only one that's out at the moment is England and Wales, Scotland will be out probably June, when was the last we've said that Scotland's people everything

00:38:26.000 --> 00:38:42.000
of course Scotland has its own laws and etc so that made year, we anticipate that because of the troubles in Ireland that 1921 census wasn't taken the 1926 centers which was appears to have got me sick.

00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:57.000
So we're going to have a gap with Ireland which you already have if you're doing any Irish research so it's a problem that most countries around the world will have some system of keeping tabs of the increase and decrease of that population.

00:38:57.000 --> 00:38:58.000
Okay, interesting.

00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:10.000
And I'm still on the census. Who was it that actually showed us some images of the census forums. who is it that actually filled those in.

00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:14.000
Initially, in the early stages, it was the Paula.

00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:29.000
Paula officials. But, and church wardens, but then you get us as modern times, people who are whose job it is to deliver Forbes collect them a copy out the information.

00:39:29.000 --> 00:39:37.000
And, and then it goes to the government for statistics and eventually after 100 years, make public.

00:39:37.000 --> 00:39:40.000
Okay.

00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:56.000
And the question, and there's been a little bit of chat going on about again about the 1921 census. Is it only available on find my past, or is some of that information is available on in in other places, just for the moment it's only on fine bypassed

00:39:56.000 --> 00:40:05.000
by the National Archives on the record, and they have been paid to digitize it under license.

00:40:05.000 --> 00:40:16.000
So they have to recoup their funds. So, if certainly for the rest of this year, it will be on fire my past earlier can see some of these asking will it be on ancestry.

00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:25.000
The answer is yes, but they were nice the question. So they will also have to pay for it, it's under license it's all copyright.

00:40:25.000 --> 00:40:36.000
You know, it took them three years to conserve the documents taking the books out staples out, and then digitize it and transcribe it if you've done it yourself.

00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:40.000
Think how hard it is to read a page.

00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:55.000
So, yes, eventually to ancestry, but the minute you take it or leave it. Basically, okay, and a question from Eunice This is an interesting one. I don't know whether you'll know the answer to this or not but I'm going to ask anyway.

00:40:55.000 --> 00:41:02.000
And how expensive are professional researchers and what qualifications, would you look out for.

00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:22.000
So, that they roughly charging about 25 pounds an hour, you would get a quote. First, they ought to give you half an hour's free to assess your case. And then you will get a quote and an estimate sign an agreement for both your benefits.

00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:33.000
Yes. Some people there are qualified genealogists there's a, there's an organization called Agra Agra.

00:41:33.000 --> 00:41:37.000
And there's also the register of qualified genealogists.

00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:44.000
So they have to. You can do a degree in genealogy now.

00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:57.000
There are qualified or just help helpful people, and you would pay accordingly. But if you get a quote, get a contract, you know they'll say what we'll do so much, and then you will tell you if we need some more money.

00:41:57.000 --> 00:42:01.000
Right. Okay, interesting, hope that helps you units.

00:42:01.000 --> 00:42:04.000
Okay, let's see what else we've got.

00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:18.000
And how do you get information from parish registers have physically, would you do that you have to physically go to the church or other other ways of accessing that information.

00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:32.000
The other than the book in us at the present time in the church, they will should have been deposited with what we call the diocesan record office to be kept on the atmospheric conditions so they are preserved.

00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:38.000
And if somebody comes to steal the safe in the church they don't get thrown away.

00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:49.000
And so, if they are not digitized again a lot, or transcripts are online on many sites and independent sites to.

00:42:49.000 --> 00:42:56.000
Then you go to the record office in the nearest the nearest record office to that church.

00:42:56.000 --> 00:42:58.000
They've got websites they've got online guy.

00:42:58.000 --> 00:43:06.000
Have a look ring them up and have a word, and then make an appointment and go if necessary.

00:43:06.000 --> 00:43:14.000
As soon as we get to parish registers the websites differ. And it's not all online.

00:43:14.000 --> 00:43:15.000
Okay.

00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:18.000
Um, right.

00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:25.000
A lot of things. Some of the websites are free to us find our personnel tissue in the archives as well.

00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:36.000
Okay.

00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:51.000
What software do you use to do that is a particular software. Yes, my software is something called family historian, it's a standalone pay a one off fee sits on my computer and I add bits to it all the time.

00:43:51.000 --> 00:43:53.000
So, that answers your question. good.

00:43:53.000 --> 00:44:14.000
And another questions practical question again. And do you need a person's up to date of death to get a death certificate, know the massive indexes we have our quarters, so you would need an approximate and these indexes are available freely.

00:44:14.000 --> 00:44:24.000
So you would go through you use your skills to narrow it down and you look at the indexes and then you order that you can sometimes order the wrong one.

00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:35.000
So you may look for a birth announcement in the news, or a death announcement in the newspaper. But no, you don't need the accurate you need an approximation.

00:44:35.000 --> 00:44:36.000
Okay.

00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:53.000
Right, Let's see what else do we have for you.

00:44:53.000 --> 00:44:57.000
interesting quicker. Here's one.

00:44:57.000 --> 00:45:02.000
What's the favorite record, you've studied and some of the research that you've been done.

00:45:02.000 --> 00:45:10.000
I did on from me. What is the most interesting fact that you've ever been able to find out about somebody.

00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:28.000
Well it was the fact that they those poor children were educated, that Greenwich Mean to know that they were in those wonderful wonderful buildings yes they were Paul st very similar to the workhouse but I wanted to prove that.

00:45:28.000 --> 00:45:44.000
And that was magic seeing that piece of paper, holding it knowing that your ancestors have touched it written on it and yet that was the most exciting, and most informative that was the biggest high

00:45:44.000 --> 00:45:54.000
wealth and things. Yeah, yeah so anywhere you can go to find out about the ancestors from the Commonwealth, say for example sofa, because that's Philip that's asking that.

00:45:54.000 --> 00:46:05.000
Yes. And so, Commonwealth and there's a lot of records on fine my past it's much more a Commonwealth record was a lot of Commonwealth countries Canada, etc.

00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:21.000
And by Mark past as ancestry is much more American, so you need to just do a bit of research, and South Africa well they've just had a little bit of an echo because they've had a fire in their archives, and they've now found out that government records

00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:37.000
were digitized accurate play. So they've now got to be calling their government records. So, again, church of Latter Day Saints is very good, use their website, have a look at that what they call our wiki, put in South Africa, put it into Google How do

00:46:37.000 --> 00:46:46.000
I research family history in South Africa. You, there'll be somebody that's asked the question, somewhere.

00:46:46.000 --> 00:46:48.000
Interesting. Thank you.

00:46:48.000 --> 00:46:53.000
Just remove that. I think somebody was sharing the screen by mistake there.

00:46:53.000 --> 00:47:03.000
And okay we've got some more questions for you. And let's have a look, this is from me, and she just asked him for a little bit of clarification on something that I think you've covered earlier.

00:47:03.000 --> 00:47:17.000
Can you clarify how you trace marriage records, when the ancestors were a nonconformist nonconformist or Roman Catholics, right depends on your dates between 1754 and 1837.

00:47:17.000 --> 00:47:33.000
They will be marrying in the Anglican Church, because that's the legal place, and the only place. Other times, if the church has had its building authorized, you know like, hotels and that sort of thing.

00:47:33.000 --> 00:47:46.000
Today, then they'll be able to marry and nonconformists churches will also could eventually have one of their congregation approved to be a registrar.

00:47:46.000 --> 00:47:54.000
So, Church of England something 54 1837 their own otherwise.

00:47:54.000 --> 00:47:55.000
Okay.

00:47:55.000 --> 00:47:58.000
And this is a question from Maria.

00:47:58.000 --> 00:48:13.000
She said, many years ago I tried to find my family via the church of Latter Day Saints records, but they did not include Roman Catholics, and my family details from a 200 year old Bible other records are they are records know complete.

00:48:13.000 --> 00:48:16.000
No, no records are complete.

00:48:16.000 --> 00:48:34.000
Roman Catholics I didn't win the call was made by the National Archives to deposit records with them, a lot of the Catholic bishops, and suggested that their churches should decline that to find my past has a growing collection of Roman Catholic records

00:48:34.000 --> 00:48:48.000
that you may need to go to the church to the priest. At the end of the day the incumbents or own, the parish records or whatever so it's all being released with that missions.

00:48:48.000 --> 00:48:49.000
Okay.

00:48:49.000 --> 00:49:04.000
And question from mo Garnham, and is the general record office happy to take orders for certificates for family history purposes. No, they were asking people not to place non urgent orders for a long time due to the pandemic so has been.

00:49:04.000 --> 00:49:20.000
They are. Yeah, you might just have to wait a long bit longer, but yes, place your orders would just emphasize I can't go into so much detail today but if you're ordering a marriage certificate please get it from the local registrar, not the Gro.

00:49:20.000 --> 00:49:31.000
It does make a difference if you want handwriting and signatures for checking the grr are secondary copies for marriages for births and deaths, it doesn't matter so much.

00:49:31.000 --> 00:49:33.000
Okay, thank you.

00:49:33.000 --> 00:49:54.000
And okay we've got another two or three questions, I think. Let's roll through them so we've got plenty of time, and Patricia is asking, Is it possible to correct mistaken information, placed on your family tree by persons unknown hasn't panels where

00:49:54.000 --> 00:49:59.000
the tree is so if it's family search is world street by know.

00:49:59.000 --> 00:50:11.000
That's the plus or minus of the World Tree on family sir, anybody can alter anybody's tree. Even the church members themselves, if it's on ancestry which I suspect you might mean.

00:50:11.000 --> 00:50:26.000
And then you can write to them nicely and ask them query their evidence How did they know that your grandfather's grandfather, and but you will often find they will totally know you.

00:50:26.000 --> 00:50:27.000
They may try.

00:50:27.000 --> 00:50:29.000
Okay.

00:50:29.000 --> 00:50:49.000
Okay. Question about military records from Deanna do military records, only contain professional soldiers, or does they also include volunteers and construction scripts to the First World War, anybody that says, however they got in there, and will be

00:50:49.000 --> 00:51:00.000
in them. So not all first world war record service records survive because some again were lost in Bombay, this time in the Blitz so the warehouse was bombed.

00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:21.000
They got so about 40% survive. One of the things that are very good for military records are medals. Because nearly everybody that went abroad got a medal nurses postman, all that sort of thing that can often start the ball rolling, if that answers.

00:51:21.000 --> 00:51:44.000
Okay. And another question here. The question is not in Philly so I'm going to try and sort of make a little bit, I guess the question.

00:51:44.000 --> 00:51:35.000
Well obviously there's a lot of work again I google Lyft, and I would also look at the National Archives, they have a lot of research guides. Yes of course there's a lot of work got gone on to that it's very topical.

00:51:35.000 --> 00:51:57.000
Oh yeah, yeah, you might be able to, to find out about people that fall into that category I don't know if there's anything you can see around that.

00:51:57.000 --> 00:52:06.000
And the short answer is yes but you'll have to do a little bit of research, read upon a contact the archives, etc.

00:52:06.000 --> 00:52:22.000
Yeah, okay. So, um, the questions keep coming in this is great, and a question from Elizabeth, and I would you go about finding people, if they change their name by digital, what would be a good guess at what was the London because that tree online goes

00:52:22.000 --> 00:52:39.000
back to 1665. And it legally, it will be in the Gazette, or if they anglicised say a German name or something like that. Totally free very visible, it has to be you saying that you're going to be known by something else.

00:52:39.000 --> 00:52:53.000
We don't be just be England without cover. No, no, it's a bug because it wait now in cloud include to, I want you to say the London with the was the Belfast because at the Edinburgh because that now it's just one.

00:52:53.000 --> 00:52:55.000
Right. Interesting, okay.

00:52:55.000 --> 00:53:14.000
I'm okay record some India, interesting, where they returned to India hosts after independence, I don't know the answer to that, but a lot of riches you there's a huge website which is absolutely excellent called families in British India for this, but

00:53:14.000 --> 00:53:17.000
are there, lots of the records with the British Library.

00:53:17.000 --> 00:53:28.000
And a lot of that has been digitized and what you'll find that on find my past so look for Phyllis fob is that site is absolutely brilliant.

00:53:28.000 --> 00:53:32.000
That will, that's your starting point. Well I hope that's helpful to you in it.

00:53:32.000 --> 00:53:43.000
And Chris is asking, Are there any records for women that worked alongside alongside the land, land army girls doubtful again go to the locality.

00:53:43.000 --> 00:54:00.000
Find somebody that there are you know first world war websites. There are experts or forums that specialize in knowing all this sort of thing. So, anything that's got a big industry lots and lots of people not everything was cat, some things were weeded

00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:07.000
out. And so you might, and I'd start with the locality, where they were.

00:54:07.000 --> 00:54:17.000
Okay, I hope that helps you close and question from Sylvia, how might you find a suffragettes family, friends, no one deceased told us that our great grandma was a suffragette.

00:54:17.000 --> 00:54:35.000
It's interesting. Again not often Google it, because people have made studies of these things, there is a book by Jill lady, who is a lady, very keen on women's history done a lot with our listeners stuff.

00:54:35.000 --> 00:54:48.000
And she has listed all known suffragettes because although they said I'm not going to be counted hidden cupboards in the Houses of Parliament. They weren't trying to break the law that we're trying to change it.

00:54:48.000 --> 00:55:02.000
So it may be that you pick them up in newspapers and things like that. So, possible you'll find out for sure. Okay, now we've had a couple of our participants that are asking about records of adoption so Carol and Gordon.

00:55:02.000 --> 00:55:20.000
And how would you go about finding finding those records where would you go to, and not not like you see on them long lost families, you'll need a third party potentially but before 1927 there is no such thing as legal adoption, it will just be families

00:55:20.000 --> 00:55:22.000
being taken then.

00:55:22.000 --> 00:55:44.000
So, you can google it look at the National Archives Research Guides. No no public records of adoption. They, you have to birth certificates one that's the birth names, one that's the adoptive names, the adoptive met names, will the original say adopted,

00:55:44.000 --> 00:55:54.000
but no cross referencing, so you will need some pipe to get in touch with somebody that does that. Yeah, okay. I hope that helps both of you out there.

00:55:54.000 --> 00:55:59.000
And, okay. A question from, maybe.

00:55:59.000 --> 00:56:11.000
How would you find a man who doesn't appear anywhere in the 1921 sensor so I'm assuming this is somebody that you know was around at that time. So,

00:56:11.000 --> 00:56:27.000
the 1920 was very interesting because it was taken in June, a lot of people are on holiday, like I mentioned, so they're not where you think, and it's also a very mobile population at that time so people were in the air, they were on cruise ships, so

00:56:27.000 --> 00:56:31.000
that not everybody will be in that document.

00:56:31.000 --> 00:56:35.000
Some people chose to hide their we've got a lot of trouble with the Irish.

00:56:35.000 --> 00:56:39.000
This Krista protesting that they shouldn't.

00:56:39.000 --> 00:56:57.000
Fill the forms in it's the British government don't feel your farming to carry Liverpool's places like that, so hang on. And also, they were very strict to be listened to any of the roadshow talks about very very strict controls, under the way the 1921

00:56:57.000 --> 00:57:27.000
with digitized and indexed. So for the next three months there are weekly alterations to the data that's out on by my past, So I'd hang on, but also be creative, because one of my students, for example, found his grandmother who was actually married,

00:00:09.000 --> 00:00:33.000
Well, good evening everybody, and welcome to this anniversary talk on Chinese communism from 1922 through to the President, there's little doubt, I would suggest that China is one of the major nations on the globe, and whose history and future has determined

00:00:33.000 --> 00:00:37.000
and will determine matter what happens, internationally.

00:00:37.000 --> 00:00:43.000
So there's no doubt that China is a critical pivotal part of international relations.

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And to put it in perspective.

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If I can put up one or two slides to show the background before we launch in, as it were, into 1922.

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If I can share this with you.

00:01:01.000 --> 00:01:07.000
You should be able to see the heading.

00:01:07.000 --> 00:01:11.000
There we go. So, that's our theme.

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That is that is me.

00:01:13.000 --> 00:01:31.000
If we could just for a moment or two because the geography of China is so significant in its history. That is a truism Of course of any nation is geography helps shape it as a country, as a nation, but in a particular sense, China needs attention geographically.

00:01:31.000 --> 00:01:34.000
It shares size.

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It's the size of the United States, you could argue a little bit less with a bit more, depending on how you measure the land mass is a huge continent really not million nation, and from its earliest day, the great problem for the Chinese authority, the

00:01:49.000 --> 00:02:08.000
Chinese Emperor. And then, the imperial system goes back some 3000 years, the great problem was how do you control the country. So luggage. With such a limited resources in the pre mechanized Age Of course, extremely difficult to move around China, and

00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:14.000
with its mountains and rivers and its marshes, very difficult.

00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:21.000
Purely in terms of navigating the territory plan you left alone those new air. So that's always been a problem.

00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:35.000
And I think the reason why that's so important is that when we come to look, the Chinese structure from 1922 on one of the key things is authority. How does the authority of the day, impose itself.

00:02:35.000 --> 00:02:37.000
But I walked reference. Does it maintain its authority.

00:02:37.000 --> 00:02:54.000
Does it maintain its authority. And I'd suggest that that's a key factor in all aspects of Chinese history, the attempt of the authorities whether communist authorities under Mao of the present system or going back to the Imperial era of the Emperor's,

00:02:54.000 --> 00:03:11.000
how do those authorities impose themselves. And in the sense that dictates the nature of politics. And we'll see that I think as we go through. And I thought, just a word on China in relation to it surrounding it has not sure of course to the north, the

00:03:11.000 --> 00:03:19.000
greatest rival neighbor. Going back many centuries, and to the west.

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I think areas, usually ending in the word stuff hasn't done, Kyrgyzstan, Pakistan, and as you well know, the word Stan attached to the national title refers to it, Muslim identity.

00:03:36.000 --> 00:03:44.000
So the states to the west of China are strongly, Muslim, in terms of population. and in terms of attitude.

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And that's created problems for modern China which we can touch on as we go through.

00:03:49.000 --> 00:03:59.000
If we go to the north, we have Russia disputed Eric Mongolia, we go to the east, we have the seas, and we have the greatest rival rival of neighbor Japan.

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And then of course Southeast Asia.

00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:18.000
And then this, this large area of see across the Pacific, to what becomes the United States. And so, China normally felt that it was required to look inward rather than outward.

00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:31.000
That does change over time, but I think it's an inward looking society. I think one could claim that for, it's three millennia, that existed in form, we think of it.

00:04:31.000 --> 00:04:40.000
Just to retro appetite here is the flag of the People's Republic today, the People's Republic of China.

00:04:40.000 --> 00:04:43.000
Character just to mention before we go on.

00:04:43.000 --> 00:04:46.000
Kai Shek.

00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:52.000
the great rival about to Tom, and the first create one could say, of modern China.

00:04:52.000 --> 00:05:10.000
One's political views I think most would agree that Chiang Kai Shek is a vital figure in the whole China story, even though in most texts now, you read Chinese texts, you get a very low rating, often very little upset about it.

00:05:10.000 --> 00:05:19.000
But trying to be detached from the political argument, one would say he is a former to figure. And I see that I hope, as we go through.

00:05:19.000 --> 00:05:21.000
And we have this great rival.

00:05:21.000 --> 00:05:29.000
And the great founder of modern communism, about to come, an idealized or stylized picture.

00:05:29.000 --> 00:05:41.000
It can I offer here, what I would call our defining factors that help us understand, China and white became communist in the way that it did and why it continues in that vein.

00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:50.000
The first one I've mentioned, is not Confucius sometimes is confused with a religious thinker.

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He wasn't religious in the sense that we'd understand. He didn't believe in god or gods. He didn't deny the existence.

00:05:56.000 --> 00:06:10.000
He said, they are so ineffable so detached from humanity. We can't know them. So why waste our time considering what we must do instead is great, philosophical viewpoint.

00:06:10.000 --> 00:06:12.000
we must look at the world as it is.

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We must essentially be realists look at the world as you do.

00:06:17.000 --> 00:06:25.000
Because if we don't, we will misunderstand nature, and we will misunderstand our place in the natural order of things.

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So Confucianism, a vital factor in creating a mindset of of Chinese thought, which I would argue goes right through to today.

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Officially, Confucianism was banned rejected

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regulated out of existence communist tried.

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They nonetheless recognize that it was an underlining separate theories that could not be ignored.

00:06:51.000 --> 00:07:08.000
And what happens in practice is that modern Chinese communist build Confucianism into their system, but I think we can touch on that it goes through a second key factor as China's view of itself, historically, as the center of the earth.

00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:24.000
If you know your Mandarin, you know, that is ignore the Chinese China means the center of the Middle Kingdom sometimes. In other words, we Chinese are the center of the world, and everyone else radio radiate out from us.

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We are set to sun and all other nations there like satellites, around.

00:07:37.000 --> 00:07:43.000
There's a deep sense in Chinese history of a self centeredness and off supremacy.

00:07:43.000 --> 00:07:52.000
We are supreme culture, and all other cultures are inferior to us, which is why we don't need to deal with them.

00:07:52.000 --> 00:07:58.000
This is one of the fascinating aspects of nearly 2000 years of Chinese history. We don't need relations with foreigners.

00:07:58.000 --> 00:08:03.000
Now of course they did in terms of trade and exchange and vital goods.

00:08:03.000 --> 00:08:19.000
But there was put it in the sense that these goods coming into China with tribute from the inferior peoples to the superior ones, the Chinese. And I stress that because it goes deep into Chinese thought and help to shape Chinese communist.

00:08:19.000 --> 00:08:30.000
Why does China have a long running ideological battle with the Soviet Union, because it's over the ideology of Marxism coming.

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Right.

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And the Russians.

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The Russians the bug fix the Soviet target problem.

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And of course there's attack, because the Soviet Union claimed during the first have had the great Marxist revolution, therefore had priority and interpretation of what revolution actually meant.

00:08:48.000 --> 00:08:54.000
And that's a long running dispute that goes down into site no Russian relations today.

00:08:54.000 --> 00:09:07.000
Although Russia, of course, is no longer communist formerly the legacy of that sino Soviet rivalry still has an impact on the current relations between the two countries.

00:09:07.000 --> 00:09:13.000
A third key factor in the 19th century.

00:09:13.000 --> 00:09:32.000
China fell under the sway of what they called the foreign foreign nations, led by the United Kingdom by Britain and the main soon joined by France in Germany later, Portugal, you could name various European countries to impose themselves on China.

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In the 19th century, beginning, you can date at 34 sites to 1839.

00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:54.000
When Britain launched the first Super Opium Wars, which applies the Chinese to take in large, open, or else be bombarded else have their thoughts and their body by English warships, which will be happening.

00:09:54.000 --> 00:10:10.000
Now this was deeply humiliating imagine the reaction, you are thinking of yourself as a supreme culture, and you're suddenly brought face to face with the reality that you're not sure, at least, logically, and really truly that you can't you can't match

00:10:10.000 --> 00:10:11.000
the West.

00:10:11.000 --> 00:10:13.000
In firepower.

00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:19.000
And that went very deep to Chinese sense of humiliation.

00:10:19.000 --> 00:10:24.000
And the resolve came, we must end this humiliation. But how do we do it.

00:10:24.000 --> 00:10:38.000
The only way to do it ironic is by copying the West in its best aspects commercially and economically and militarily, and that is what begins to happen, but you can, you can send the tension in China with no to believe that are the way forward.

00:10:38.000 --> 00:10:43.000
And those are clung to the path to take note. We have nothing to do with the outside world.

00:10:43.000 --> 00:10:48.000
Well the reality was the outside world had impose itself on China.

00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:51.000
In the 19th into the 20th century.

00:10:51.000 --> 00:11:09.000
Coming to a false critical factor I'd offer in 1919. And again, we could say, we take this precisely the fourth of May, so called. It was on that day that the Chinese were informed that the best Treaty Negotiations in Paris, which settled.

00:11:09.000 --> 00:11:14.000
The First World War, the geographical settlement after the war.

00:11:14.000 --> 00:11:28.000
The Chinese were told, you have no place in these negotiations. You're not invited into the not invited in, and you will simply have to accept the conclusions and recommendations and settlements that we arrived at.

00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:45.000
And the big humiliation one that went deepest was the German territories that obviously being lost by Germany, as a result of its defeated war, and the Chinese as they had been promised by the expected to get them back to make your profits.

00:11:45.000 --> 00:11:53.000
It must come back to us as Chinese, but the Allies at their side, said no, it goes to Japan.

00:11:53.000 --> 00:11:55.000
Japan the old enemy.

00:11:55.000 --> 00:12:12.000
That really hurt. And so there. There's an outbreak, led by the students in Beijing. Fourth of may 1990 when they came out in, in protest against this deep humiliation and the dramatic story they got that you can read in Chinese textbooks now is that

00:12:12.000 --> 00:12:28.000
one student was painting on a plaque on denouncing Western devil foreign devils, and he ran out of pate. So you bet his arm, the wrist stripped the skin back to the elbow, the blood flow dipped his brush in the flowing blood and finished.

00:12:28.000 --> 00:12:46.000
finished his slogan, whether that's an apocryphal story doesn't really matter, it's one that's gone into Chinese textbooks, lot of Chinese children, introduced to this as foreign domination and beat as a sign of resistance of the young against foreign

00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:48.000
domination.

00:12:48.000 --> 00:13:00.000
And the fifth one I've mentioned as a critical factor. I touched on, already in the sense sinus topic relation. It conditions so much of what happens to Chinese communism.

00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:05.000
Let's come to that, more precisely.

00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:09.000
I mentioned Confucius. I just before you leave here.

00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:24.000
I just quote, a couple of things there that give you the flavor of the impact that he still had right through to today saying of his its responsibility of each individual to accept the words they find it and turn late harmoniously to it.

00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:36.000
Now why does that matter, because it creates the notion, the concept of hierarchy that everyone has his or her place in society, but didn't order structured hierarchy.

00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:40.000
That is how life is. That's how nature.

00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:43.000
And you can't kick against without creating disharmony.

00:13:43.000 --> 00:13:47.000
And the great word confusion theory is hard.

00:13:47.000 --> 00:14:00.000
Happiness can only be achieved by harmony. And that means you relate to your fellow be in as understanding your way as you can. So selfishness, is a great challenge.

00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:05.000
So the collective principle you act harmoniously in the collective.

00:14:05.000 --> 00:14:10.000
And I think, see how that lends itself very easily into communist theory later.

00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:29.000
But you you selected as the great engine of history, the great dynamic history is connectivity in the Marxist sense of course is class solidarity against the upper class with exploiting, but it marries very, very smoothly with the confusion concept.

00:14:29.000 --> 00:14:36.000
And just on confusions hierarchy, what was called the song gang, which simplified.

00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:47.000
Is this these are the three, three elements, loyalty of the people to the Emperor was absent. It cannot be fired it cannot be denied has to be obeyed.

00:14:47.000 --> 00:14:48.000
The second one.

00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:56.000
Why is must obey husband's why you might ask. Today, well because in confusion thinking.

00:14:56.000 --> 00:15:07.000
The male was superior in natural terms to the female lead you to challenge that but that's that's a confusion principle. And the third one.

00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:19.000
In the sun going principal respective children towards parents, children did not have minds of their own. They had to conform to the parents. That is why they were told to marry.

00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:22.000
They are falling in love and choosing your part.

00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:26.000
No, no, that's that's that's Western sentimental.

00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:46.000
Marriage is good and worthy is arranged by the parents of both parties, you don't let young people fall for each other because they will create disharmony with your taste but I just offer it as the three basic principles in confusion, and also that come

00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:50.000
this notion of hierarchy. Everybody has a place.

00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:54.000
And again to translate that into communist me later.

00:15:54.000 --> 00:16:14.000
The idea of class conflict. The idea of leadership. For those who are informed the class leaders, and the followers. That's basic to Maoism to communism, that not everybody knows the mechanics of the laws of society, the Marxist claim they did they still

00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:25.000
do those boxes. They understood the social relationships that based upon exploitation class against class, and Chinese communism took that out.

00:16:25.000 --> 00:16:29.000
And ladies over it's already existing hierarchical motion.

00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:34.000
That's why it fits very very philosophically.

00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:41.000
Well, let me sprint through McDonald's but it just to set it up for us, our own centuries.

00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:47.000
These are the key elements in the development of Chinese history.

00:16:47.000 --> 00:16:56.000
Over two millennia of imperial rule of various houses, based in the states climax, with the Ching Dynasty.

00:16:56.000 --> 00:16:59.000
In the early 20th century when it collapses.

00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:11.000
We mentioned Western exploitation critical factor in the 19th century. We have the revolution of 1911, called the Chinese up numbers, the double 10th 10th of October, where the changes.

00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:27.000
After the industry is going back 2000 years class, it fell in the face of rebellion, its own army rebels against it collapsed. What took its place with the Republic, and many revolutions are the great day has gone, we cannot have a truly revolutionary

00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:32.000
progressive China, because we've got rid of the old Imperial handicaps.

00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:45.000
It didn't follow that way because what sets in his warlord is, which is to say that because central authority had broken down with the removal of the Empire advocates, the Imperial house up not overthrown abdicate.

00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:51.000
But what's left is a republic, but the Republic has no real power.

00:17:51.000 --> 00:17:58.000
And what happened is the local magnets local, local official setup government, and their own terms in their own area.

00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:04.000
So you have China split up into a whole series of pockets of individual rule.

00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:15.000
If I cook the walls of the roses in England, that's, that's not too good to reference it give us the idea. Central Have you broke down and local magnate, a circuit.

00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:23.000
Now for many revolutionaries this well as bad as the system that had been overthrown or they're just collecting it.

00:18:23.000 --> 00:18:38.000
There couldn't be national unity, if you have warlords. And so what happens is that the two major revolutionary parties have grown up in the late 19th early 20th century come together to fight against the warlords.

00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:46.000
And that's how we have the birth of communism in a formal sense, because in 1951 52, the Communist Party is for.

00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:56.000
And it allies with the Gatling gun. The People's Party, or the nationalists. The biggest.

00:18:56.000 --> 00:19:12.000
But those are both revenue parties. They both believe in destroying the warlords, and they believe in getting rid of the foreigner, then the twin. And they, they share their for basic view of the policy that should follow that lasts for about five years

00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:22.000
They ally in the so called northern expedition. And they, they bring down they break up most of the powerful warlords not all of them, but most of all odds are broken.

00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:27.000
And it's a leader of the Nationalist Party can Kai Shek.

00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:37.000
He then turned on his allies the communists and endeavors to destroy the Janka big to Moscow to train as a revolution.

00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:40.000
And what he saw with communism in Moscow.

00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:42.000
He came to the test.

00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:52.000
It was totally unscripted to the Chinese context. And he believed that if communism was allowed to flourish in China, it would destroy any chance of Chinese progress.

00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:55.000
Any chance of China restoring software, it's great.

00:19:55.000 --> 00:19:59.000
They've been broken and damaged by the foreign in positions.

00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:07.000
So, can turn 1927, he turns on his former communist allies in the so called White Terror.

00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:20.000
In the major cities like Shanghai, and he tempted strike physically all the comments are rounded up and shot in public, most of them very nearly wiped out comments, but not entirely.

00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:26.000
Because the group of communists, led by melted don't

00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:39.000
flee from the areas of persecution and execution and set up bases in the mountains in southern China under pressure under threat but they survive.

00:20:39.000 --> 00:20:42.000
They have some Russia systems.

00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:48.000
This is a fascinating point, Russia, the Soviet Union, never believed in Chinese communist.

00:20:48.000 --> 00:21:01.000
I mean by that. It never believed the Chinese Communist of themselves could create a communist society as they had done in Russia, what they must do their Stalin preach this to them.

00:21:01.000 --> 00:21:19.000
Don't say what you must do in China you communists. Give yourselves up to be martyrs for the call die for the cause of a bullish on revolution first or the middle class before that can be a truly pregnant tab and workers workers in China.

00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:27.000
There were a few but the Marxist said, 85% of Chinese peasant

00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:43.000
contribution to communism. He said yes, we are essentially a peasant community, and therefore our revolution, must be a peasant revolution. It will be Marxist, it will conform to the great demands of class warfare, but it won't be a workers revolution

00:21:43.000 --> 00:21:46.000
in the sense that Russia.

00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:58.000
You'll be a peasant revolution. And that was heresy to Moscow to start a company, and that's why you have that long running battle ideological battle between China and the Soviet Union.

00:21:58.000 --> 00:22:02.000
I think running right through to the end of congressman China, and soon in a sense.

00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:07.000
Today given, sino Russian possibility.

00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:18.000
But having nearly destroyed the communists Chiang Kai Shek then sets up a Nationalist government, which obtained which last right through to 1949.

00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:28.000
So for over two decades, Chiang Kai Shek is the face of of China, and he wasn't admiration and support by the Western world.

00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:44.000
They didn't know communism, and maybe some of them might have heard these, these bands the rural bandits as they were called out to the mountains, but nobody, nobody have nobody understanding or a parent on standards for the gross but China was about

00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:49.000
extraordinary story when you go back, 1920s 30s, very few Western understood.

00:22:49.000 --> 00:23:00.000
China in the sense of internal politics and they accepted Chiang Kai Shek as the true representative China and the future of China lady with his Nationalist Party.

00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:02.000
He pushed that idea.

00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:08.000
And his financial dealings he got lots of foreign money by presenting that

00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:17.000
was because it was based upon a falsity, but one which would believe by by most of the rest of the world until the Second World War, let's come to that.

00:23:17.000 --> 00:23:25.000
The other another huge factor in shaping Chinese company is the Japanese occupation, which is there from 1931 to 45.

00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:36.000
Technically the war. The Pacific war starts in 1937, but from 31, Japan occupied parts of China Manchuria in the north particular.

00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:41.000
And they've been very brutal the Chinese, the Japanese I think about in their treatment of China.

00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:45.000
The idea of the being Asian, just to cut any ice.

00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:59.000
And so the bitterness that China felt towards a foreigner is intensified bitterness towards the company. There's always been rivalry and tension between those two countries, Japan and China, but this is intensified by Japan's attempt to take China.

00:23:59.000 --> 00:24:05.000
One might say why was Japan so hostile to China, and it's really a matter of belief in survival.

00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:15.000
The Japanese believe if they didn't take areas of Asia, talking with China, they would run shorter central supplies the key ones being rapper, and oil.

00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:20.000
If they couldn't have left Japan would die.

00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:30.000
And that needs stressing because one, because sometimes things just get people simply aggressive, but they were bad style, but there was a logic to it might be.

00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:39.000
I thought you wouldn't accept, but they believe that only by taking over parts of Asia, could they survive as a Japanese people.

00:24:39.000 --> 00:24:45.000
Thanks their attack upon China and occupation to 31 or no attempt to cooperate.

00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:49.000
They did call it a cooperation.

00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:53.000
But it was the imposition of Japanese or authority done very brutally.

00:24:53.000 --> 00:24:56.000
That's the tragedy.

00:24:56.000 --> 00:25:01.000
I mean, it's unpleasant have to say this good I think it's true.

00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:11.000
The treatment by the Japanese of the Chinese was as bad if not worse matric by the Nazis of the Jews in Europe.

00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:17.000
The savagery exposed towards the camps was set up in such a great deal.

00:25:17.000 --> 00:25:27.000
But it's worth, stressing because it does again intensify China's concept, we could only say that so

00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:35.000
how do we get rid of the Japanese, how do we get rid of the foreigner, how do we stand up to the to be the Soviet Union, have you stand up to capitalism and United States.

00:25:35.000 --> 00:25:37.000
We do have a cell.

00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:44.000
And that's a deep conviction developed throughout the communist era story to today, and then go back on the key points.

00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:48.000
Today, and then go back on the key points.

00:25:48.000 --> 00:26:06.000
When the war ends. Second World War ended 945, where they can go check believed that the Americans would come in and help him, push all the components, out of China, just as they were pushing the Japanese out.

00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:12.000
That's how you believe what happened, didn't need to happen because the bombs were dropped and Japan surrendered.

00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:16.000
So there's no need for major American Allied invasion of time.

00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:25.000
So tank effect, three of the Americans rolling up the communists and push him into the sea. That never materialized to challenge great disappointment.

00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:39.000
What happens instead is that when the Japanese surrender, they surrender to the nearest Chinese authority. And in many cases those authorities were communists, particularly in the north in The Manchurian region.

00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:54.000
And so, there's a great list for the Chinese comments, they are now recognized by Japan as legitimate accept as absurd in the form of Great Britain this of the national Sunday.

00:26:54.000 --> 00:27:07.000
This leads to a major Civil War. In fact they've been fighting each other right through the Japanese war anyway, but a major war breaks out night 546, and last two to 1949.

00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:15.000
And the nationals are defeated communist and about when, when very effectively.

00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:20.000
Chiang Kai Shek fleas to Taiwan.

00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:33.000
Taiwan, very much tied in with this of course, and in Taiwan, Chiang Kai Shek and that to set up a new China's I called it like to be the true China Mainland China is now communist and October the first 1949.

00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:49.000
Now, broadcast from the Forbidden City from the balcony of the Southern Gate City, and he says, famous words. We have stood up and he meant by that. We have arrived, as a separate independent people.

00:27:49.000 --> 00:28:03.000
We may struggled to prove that. But we now know that we have the means to be a truly independent restored, China, and will restore China by our communist methods.

00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:06.000
And I would stress that aspect.

00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:08.000
I think when you're looking at Mount to Tom and China.

00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:14.000
It's worth remembering what for him came first, was China.

00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:27.000
Communism came second for him communism Marxism was a means philosophically politically to the end of Chinese regeneration, the restoration of Chinese great.

00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:38.000
That's the critical factor on all revolutionaries I would suggest in China are carried along, look that we want to restore trying to do great.

00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:45.000
It's a great nation, Sally and humiliated by the western by Japan, but we now have arrived we stood up again.

00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:57.000
That's the power, and that justifies for him, but for all the policies. He then follow again taking this food. He lost right to see that at the moment.

00:28:57.000 --> 00:29:01.000
Don't shopping for for a level of energy.

00:29:01.000 --> 00:29:11.000
It takes over from Mount mount dies in 76, and two years later, dung Xiaoping emergence from the party

00:29:11.000 --> 00:29:27.000
with the Communist Party power struggle, we still don't know the full details, but he emergence as he says we have to change tack on rates. We can't find a mouse policies, economically, because they will not create Chinese great.

00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:34.000
And you ever see an equation because he said, Now, great man, great figure.

00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:39.000
It will 70% right and 40% wrong.

00:29:39.000 --> 00:29:50.000
Very clever that when Stalin was denounced by Chris Johnson 1956. He was denounced totally led to the breakdown of the Soviet Union.

00:29:50.000 --> 00:30:00.000
Now, Doug. That wasn't the way to do it. So he didn't condemn, he still revered him as it's great social present revolution, but he said he got certain things wrong.

00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:06.000
And those are the things we can modify and what he meant was, Malcolm economics.

00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:19.000
He thought you could build a modern economy, purely on roughed up purely on Chinese effort that you didn't need Trey commerce, you could do it simply by my sheer willpower.

00:30:19.000 --> 00:30:34.000
Marvelous concept, but very unrealistic economics. And so you can get the second revolution in his last night.

00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:37.000
Society remarkable, remarkable.

00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:43.000
It says, commerce and trade production commerce, other means to Chinese advancement.

00:30:43.000 --> 00:30:50.000
That's the party bus for that we make ourselves rich, and that includes making ourselves rich individually.

00:30:50.000 --> 00:31:05.000
Now how can that fit into a Marxist communist message. How can fit into the confusion measured message of collective endeavor. And that's a fascinating achievement, shopping, that he turns Chinese in a different direction.

00:31:05.000 --> 00:31:18.000
But, and this is the big but he still maintain the political control of the party can change the economics but it makes no ground gives no ground on politics.

00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:24.000
The party must rule. The people must obey the party, the hierarchy must be mentioning.

00:31:24.000 --> 00:31:27.000
I know she'll follow him.

00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:36.000
People like GM in fact very much done champions policy, we come now to our president leader Xi Jinping.

00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:40.000
Some say because the governance of the party. He's been there since 212.

00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:43.000
And, but

00:31:43.000 --> 00:31:51.000
almost absolute. Now, China watches say he can't last forever.

00:31:51.000 --> 00:32:04.000
Not in terms of longevity, but he can't last forever politically. So watch this space. At the moment he seems to print. But, but, but, in total Chinese politics, which are very difficult a feather.

00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:13.000
They don't give the, the public releases that we would like we never quite know who's up and who's now in Chinese tradition, certainly Chinese communist.

00:32:13.000 --> 00:32:15.000
So we'll have to wait on that, but the new mouse is not a bad way of suggesting.

00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:29.000
But the new mo is not a bad way of suggesting. Well, let's take the stage further in terms of 22 months, I've mentioned the shock to the Chinese in 1919.

00:32:29.000 --> 00:32:33.000
When their lands were taken.

00:32:33.000 --> 00:32:44.000
Japanese. This leads to an outburst of anger, we call the 19th of May the Fourth Movement, and it intensify the idea of nationalism and revolution.

00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:49.000
We've mentioned wallet wallet is, why not get rid of a trick here.

00:32:49.000 --> 00:32:53.000
Actually the Communist Party of China was founded in 1921.

00:32:53.000 --> 00:32:56.000
Now wasn't attendance.

00:32:56.000 --> 00:33:01.000
So in the keep the legends of now being the great inspiration from the beginning.

00:33:01.000 --> 00:33:06.000
They said, it really began in 1922. And if you go to Shanghai.

00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:15.000
There's a room above a restaurant in Shanghai, which is said to be the meeting place of the handful 12 or so of the early comments to form the party. And my name is there.

00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:25.000
And now the name is there. But technically would be purely accurate. The party is formed the year earlier. Well wasn't there is a detail.

00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:28.000
significant but you might think that each other.

00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:40.000
So from 22 and we have a Communist Party. I mentioned, it begins in alliance with the Nationalist Party, you have the great revolution. And it begins under the sway of Moscow, under the sway of Soviet communism.

00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:46.000
Why, because the communists in, in Russia said look we know the story of revolution we've done it.

00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:55.000
We've done it, five years we've had a revolution, we know how it works. You must listen to us. We will come to you with our advisors, and we will tell you the path to follow.

00:33:55.000 --> 00:34:05.000
And of course at first because had no power and so the Chinese Communist followed that. Now, with all this angered by it but he knew that you could reject out of hand.

00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:16.000
You didn't need socket support with it, but he always believed that when the moment came Chinese come into a set itself as a separate distinct form of communism.

00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:18.000
From a Marxist.

00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:21.000
So they were the two parties.

00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:28.000
Good night, coming down GMT for short means the Nationalist Party CCP Chinese Communist Party.

00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:28.000
Okay.

00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:36.000
So the aim of those parties when they come to go get rid of all ism Warlordism and end the foreign precedence.

00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:47.000
That's why they come by. However, I mentioned that you had, I think, in 1927, Chiang Kai Shek turned on his comments on those tries to destroy them.

00:34:47.000 --> 00:35:00.000
Almost does, they survive, but it's gonna be, we might say, and he governs China effectively not wholly with China's too big to government, but effectively in the eyes of the Western world.

00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:03.000
He governs Chinese the face of China.

00:35:03.000 --> 00:35:07.000
From 1927 right through to 49 that carries him for the war.

00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:22.000
And he's seen in the Western world, as the great hero resisting the Japanese, that's an exaggeration, because very often he wasn't resisting comments we're doing it in the north, certainly, but the the western concept was Chiang Kai Shek is leading this

00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:24.000
great anti Japanese war effort.

00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:40.000
Well, that ends in 45 the war, and suddenly chat, doesn't get his way, you believe in the comments we pushed out by the Allied invasion of China that doesn't happen, and instead we have the competency began to assert themselves as a distinct party separate

00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:46.000
from the nationalists and able to foresee a future where they might well be in control.

00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:50.000
Now, first conceived off in terms of partition.

00:35:50.000 --> 00:36:06.000
The early comments on the mobile phone.

00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:14.000
let the Nationals have the south, and indeed that was what started said, Don't try and when you're not strong enough.

00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:18.000
You've got to cooperate with other revolutionaries. Don't go too low.

00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:24.000
And now it didn't like being told what to do. He had to, for the sake of the party survival.

00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:33.000
But he was embittered by Stalin's dismissal of Chinese communism, as not being really the work of the force of the future.

00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:37.000
So that's what rankles in all this.

00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:52.000
Well, that's come from now himself, he wins a civil war, takes over as leader in 1949. And the next quarter century, he governs China, it becomes absolutely.

00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:58.000
And the cultural now becomes the outstanding feature of China, in that period.

00:36:58.000 --> 00:37:01.000
And then, the three critical

00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:05.000
chosen the three critical element in mouths governance of China.

00:37:05.000 --> 00:37:07.000
The Great Leap Forward.

00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:08.000
Four years 58.

00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:18.000
That's what I would suggest it was mouse belief that Tony by their own efforts and sometimes literally by the work of their own hand.

00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:24.000
The mass Chinese people present community could build a modern economy.

00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:35.000
They have bigger than Jcv they would do the sheer numbers of the Chinese and the shared willpower they could bring to bear would create a new modern industrialized China.

00:37:35.000 --> 00:37:45.000
It was a mistake of course on his part, but he argued it with such conviction, it became. It became the decree that people had to confirmed.

00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:57.000
And this great leap leap leap over the topic, and they bleed over the Western world, and they match United States. That was the great dream for four years.

00:37:57.000 --> 00:38:06.000
This massively forward is followed. And it's because it's based on the idea of collect devising the peasant.

00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:17.000
Don't let private and continue, make everybody work individually, collectively, but not for their own sake. They work as individuals for the greater good.

00:38:17.000 --> 00:38:20.000
And if they don't do that there must be punished and in prison.

00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:24.000
And the great belief was established to education.

00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:36.000
Younger talk this China survived so it's of, and therefore we must act collectively we must have our back sliders are critics of the party, a party knows best.

00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:39.000
We must follow. Because mouse is the party.

00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:43.000
So the cultural mouth develops

00:38:43.000 --> 00:38:45.000
from the little red book.

00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:48.000
Can I just stop share for a moment.

00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:54.000
You may have this if you've been to China. You've been picked up your copy. I hope so. Cuz it's great historical documents.

00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:59.000
Are they going to collect them. When I went to China first. I've got quite a few numbers languages.

00:38:59.000 --> 00:39:13.000
I was in China once that's before a great demonstration and outside my hotel, the young people waving their, their books. So I went to the window.

00:39:13.000 --> 00:39:25.000
But actually read him.

00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:35.000
really not by agree with their policies but but what is in touch with to bend the rules occasionally. Well, moms domination of China is extraordinary.

00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:47.000
And it's so deep and profound. Back to my things it so they prefer, but it marks, China from that point on

00:39:47.000 --> 00:39:54.000
the top of the idea that this Supreme Being this picture me of virtue.

00:39:54.000 --> 00:40:10.000
This product of 2000 years of Chinese culture. Now is the end product of that extraordinary notion, particularly when you think this is a Marxist philosophy that he's teaching, which speaks of the collective will of the people.

00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:18.000
But the people's will express to now, as it had been Of course,

00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:27.000
it's making sure to help great communist leaders, speak folder parties speak to go to Cuba. Think upon part.

00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:36.000
I can think of no communist system that hasn't produced a great leader who claim to speak for the people who is the party, and is the people's representative.

00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:54.000
And now's a great example of what the culture of my book and all that. And then we have another extraordinary development in human history.

00:40:54.000 --> 00:41:09.000
but his revolution might be betrayed once he died, he says, I must leave my mark on China. So I must create a Chinese culture, as a sexually malice and communist, and we do it through control from the top we do it through us.

00:41:09.000 --> 00:41:12.000
It has to be absolute.

00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:24.000
It's a very bitter time, very bitter time. Millions die in the course of justice millions died in the great need for. I mean some 35 million died during the Great Leap Forward.

00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:28.000
These are man made famous diabetics.

00:41:28.000 --> 00:41:42.000
And the Cultural Revolution no less is a suppression of any attempt at challenge or criticism, and the party designs up amazing piece of domination.

00:41:42.000 --> 00:41:47.000
And I would suggest it could be understood in terms of confusion notions of hierarchy.

00:41:47.000 --> 00:41:50.000
That's where the blend becomes.

00:41:50.000 --> 00:41:53.000
Well,

00:41:53.000 --> 00:41:55.000
illustration.

00:41:55.000 --> 00:42:05.000
I mentioned rivalries here not time to deal with it individually, but now has a long running dispute with the Soviet Union. Now in style and melon Christian bound Regiment, in which he says China's got it right.

00:42:05.000 --> 00:42:08.000
and you people back in Europe got it wrong.

00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:15.000
So the peoples of the world you want to follow Mark has must follow the Chinese, not the subject line.

00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:16.000
A bit of cash at 19 59,000,069.

00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:23.000
At 1959 men in 69, the Soviet Union, and now almost came to war with.

00:42:23.000 --> 00:42:32.000
They turn their rockets across Asia towards the top, not fully known in the West, we have been terrified have we know what was going on, but that subject.

00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:35.000
Chinese rivalry.

00:42:35.000 --> 00:42:37.000
There's the great man.

00:42:37.000 --> 00:42:44.000
It just overlooks tenement square, and it's still on the back notes that you

00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:59.000
just read horrible figures the great leak for those that are comfortable figures in the great in the major provinces, through commercial through click ization.

00:42:59.000 --> 00:43:03.000
And so the idea there was such a thing as socialist or communist science.

00:43:03.000 --> 00:43:12.000
And they felt for fraud, like cinco said, oh, I've discovered ways of reducing 16 years of corn

00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:19.000
and mountain leave him and put his program at operation. So the crops with it in the field, or diamond.

00:43:19.000 --> 00:43:27.000
It's an amazing piece. Now, why great revolution of 1966. This is to establish a permanent mark on China.

00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:35.000
So you're attacking the old culture or thoughts or custom old habits. And how do you do you call on the young.

00:43:35.000 --> 00:43:40.000
The young still young school children in their early teens, calling on there.

00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:53.000
And it's remarkable how the young rally to an aging meltdown, as they become so extreme and bitter, as the young often can be.

00:43:53.000 --> 00:43:57.000
That's the terrifying aspect. But for 10 years.

00:43:57.000 --> 00:44:04.000
China is convulsed with its cultural revolution against which no criticism can be made, until it's over.

00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:19.000
And then of course, I think we mentioned again, those are just list those methods of the revolution idealism terror coercion, in some regards beyond the pale a the People's Liberation Army would impose it.

00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:22.000
And these are the enemies. The victim.

00:44:22.000 --> 00:44:36.000
Landlords rich peasants reactionaries you can anybody mount disapproved of suspicious was listed under this sort of categorization results genocide.

00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:54.000
And the outcome of this which we still are wounded by the great spread of concentration camps across China between 49 and 76, which far out match anything in Europe, that's been developed in the days of the Nazis.

00:44:54.000 --> 00:45:05.000
And just to quote the last figure, but Mao's death. There was some thousand labor camps, still operating across China, and 25 million prisons its record died in the course of mouse.

00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:07.000
Cultural Revolution.

00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:15.000
Terrifying figures. Well, let's just touch on this before we we close out the second revolution and shopping I've mentioned.

00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:19.000
He didn't attack openly he just said there was something wrong.

00:45:19.000 --> 00:45:22.000
And he said, what we can have is modern communism.

00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:32.000
One country to system, and that was to cover the idea. It could be capitalist while still being politically communist its applied then you may remember to Hong Kong.

00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:45.000
Subsequently, but that's the idea that dung Xiaoping introduces. It's a reinterpretation of communism in economics, brilliant piece of analysis. There's the great little man.

00:45:45.000 --> 00:45:53.000
And then we come finally to Xi Jinping China's new Meb.

00:45:53.000 --> 00:46:04.000
This is the figure that people be quoting recently. But what was it in the 1990s the size of Netherlands in terms of economies GDP.

00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:13.000
Under dung Xiaoping took the CG didn't think it would be opposite the largest economy in the works, amazing transformation.

00:46:13.000 --> 00:46:30.000
Yeah, I'll close with these here are the major characteristics, I think of China today and the sheet, Chicken human industrial growth obviously nuclear superpower, allegedly communist Deepika lesson.

00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:39.000
said you couldn't do. You couldn't have a capital economy, and a communist system, it would work. But China's disproved it.

00:46:39.000 --> 00:46:49.000
In the last 30 years, the colonial this this is fascinating to be the Belt, One Road initiative to speak Chinese influence commercially across the whole world.

00:46:49.000 --> 00:46:54.000
And the takeover of many parts of Africa by

00:46:54.000 --> 00:46:59.000
major loans and grants to, to African governments.

00:46:59.000 --> 00:47:13.000
Lot of corruption in this but that's, that's one of the moves that China's would make it such power we sometimes call it in China itself censorship and massive a box, China, but it's in keeping with our hierarchical notion.

00:47:13.000 --> 00:47:27.000
So what would what struck you and me if it would have been deeply unacceptable to many most Chinese I'd say censorship a massive requirement of a healthy communist society.

00:47:27.000 --> 00:47:41.000
And the rebels are the exceptions, rather than all miss I'll close with, and it's the most significant of all the sino centric suspicion of the outside world, China doesn't trust the outside world.

00:47:41.000 --> 00:47:44.000
One particular example that you can think of climate change in the green.

00:47:44.000 --> 00:47:49.000
In the West, it's very biggest and most nations the western have bought into that.

00:47:49.000 --> 00:47:55.000
The Chinese don't why don't know because they don't trust the West.

00:47:55.000 --> 00:48:05.000
Chinese believe that this green movement this push for emissions control is the way of standing start to fight, preventing Chinese industrial growth.

00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:12.000
We've ruined the world for two centuries. So the Chinese you have, and you tell us now we will stop.

00:48:12.000 --> 00:48:19.000
I think it lies at the base of so much disagreement. And of course we have military possibilities.

00:48:19.000 --> 00:48:36.000
Think of Taiwan, Hong Kong, whether that will come to open conflict that we don't know. But that was that was a major concern with this now, but he, but he pressing issue.

00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:38.000
I put a pause there.

00:48:38.000 --> 00:48:43.000
Because I've just gotten tend to

00:48:43.000 --> 00:48:58.000
Michael that was absolutely fascinating. And I was particularly, particularly found the five defining factors that you talked about right at the start, particularly interesting and for, for everything that was to come after.

00:48:58.000 --> 00:49:06.000
Right, not shooting no makeup, and we're going questions. Okay.

00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:16.000
Okay. Right. Let me just get my chat open here. Now we've got a few questions here. I'm just going to start from the beginning.

00:49:16.000 --> 00:49:20.000
So, let me see.

00:49:20.000 --> 00:49:27.000
Yeah, we've got a question here from an we worry about us, Chinese relations.

00:49:27.000 --> 00:49:37.000
And indeed, us and our relations with Russia at the moment that could be said, and but do you think Russia and China could ever have a war.

00:49:37.000 --> 00:49:42.000
Yes, that's always a possibility,

00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:44.000
how it would come about.

00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:47.000
Neighbors always round up.

00:49:47.000 --> 00:49:50.000
But if your neighbors across the border, the tensions even greater.

00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:59.000
And if you both have aspirations to greatness and leadership and Putin appears to. Certainly, she did. Big in America today, traditional.

00:49:59.000 --> 00:50:11.000
It's very conceivable frightening Lee conceivable, they would crash on a critical issue like border disputes, which may seem minor to us, but they've been there.

00:50:11.000 --> 00:50:17.000
If there's a serious collapse of economies in the world economy.

00:50:17.000 --> 00:50:32.000
The Chinese, the motor possibilities. There's no saying that they both to make a nation might not come to conflict come to blows in order to survive. And that's what helped me was to look at historical record of economic collapse or decline.

00:50:32.000 --> 00:50:35.000
And you lash out in order to survive.

00:50:35.000 --> 00:50:37.000
I could conceivably.

00:50:37.000 --> 00:50:40.000
the idea of peaceful developed between the two.

00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:48.000
And they talk about Xi Jinping and couldn't have met a couple of times and a very courteous and polite to each other. But underneath there was a deep suspicion.

00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:54.000
I repeat, the point, China does not trust the outside world, starting with Russia.

00:50:54.000 --> 00:51:00.000
It doesn't believe any other nation has Chinese interest at heart.

00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:02.000
So it will sign up to protocols and.

00:51:02.000 --> 00:51:11.000
But it's always concerned that these are a form of foreign intervention of foreign control.

00:51:11.000 --> 00:51:17.000
More detail, but it is conceivable unfortunately sadly tragically Yes.

00:51:17.000 --> 00:51:31.000
Okay. Thank you, Michael. Okay, we've had a couple of people actually title and and I've asked a very similar question actually. And that is, if you could possibly talk a little bit about the difference between a workers revolution and a peasant revolution,

00:51:31.000 --> 00:51:44.000
a good point, they caught in pure communist theory the dialectic revolution has to follow a given path, scientific, it must follow that pattern. What has to boil 100 degrees.

00:51:44.000 --> 00:51:54.000
And just as I think the natural world so in the political, social world, the pattern of nature, class war has to follow a pattern that can't be broken.

00:51:54.000 --> 00:51:59.000
And the pattern is as marks taught them and then picked up the Workers of the World.

00:51:59.000 --> 00:52:02.000
The Industrial Workers the factory work.

00:52:02.000 --> 00:52:09.000
They are the proletariat because they can take on capitalism at its heart, hasn't come.

00:52:09.000 --> 00:52:24.000
So when Mao said in China, a communist revolution will be a present revolution. This was pure heresy. In the eyes of Kremlin ideologues now use the word heresy strictly, the belief that there are certain truths, you cannot chatter.

00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:42.000
So Maoism communism in China does a from the ideologues in the Kremlin, who believe that they have understood the science of revolution, and it has to be a prototype and workers revolution, industrial was it cannot come from the peasants, they could get

00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:54.000
joined in a rapidly.

00:52:54.000 --> 00:53:04.000
You can load them within to beat them direction, but they don't have initiative. You can't build a revolution on President Mao said, We are present, our nation as a present community.

00:53:04.000 --> 00:53:08.000
It has to be a present evolution. That's the great divide.

00:53:08.000 --> 00:53:12.000
And I think it would undermine

00:53:12.000 --> 00:53:28.000
Russian tension, the different stages of stages of develop look down on the Chinese to their cost of course eventually, but they believe that China couldn't develop couldn't have a revolution.

00:53:28.000 --> 00:53:38.000
That's extraordinary, but it's a it's an interpretation of basic marks. Basic Marx's marxism-leninism, which is scientifically claim.

00:53:38.000 --> 00:53:40.000
You can't break the rules.

00:53:40.000 --> 00:53:57.000
Just as you can't break the rules aside follows a certain pattern has to be followed in communism. To achieve the end of the perfect classless society, not time to go to all that, but the dialectic the driving force the dynamic of social change its class

00:53:57.000 --> 00:54:09.000
struggle, based upon the ultimate victory of the proletariat the industrial workers overthrow the capitalist bosses. The peasants can't do that to the Soviet Union.

00:54:09.000 --> 00:54:21.000
And now said, Yes, we can and will have to be different. Interesting. Thank you very much. I hope that answers your question cattle, and and no another question here from Gil.

00:54:21.000 --> 00:54:27.000
Where did the Long March fit in. Oh, thank you. Yes. fascinating point.

00:54:27.000 --> 00:54:44.000
I mentioned I think earlier, that just after Chiang Kai Shek to tip to crush the communists in 97, a number of very clever, thoughtful communists broke away, including went to the hills of the Southern south of China, and set up little subjects, they

00:54:44.000 --> 00:54:51.000
call them in to the nationalist and challenging, of course, the Soviet Union.

00:54:51.000 --> 00:55:01.000
The mattress under have a citizen recorded subsequent campaign to squeeze those pockets of comments resistance, squeeze them to destruction.

00:55:01.000 --> 00:55:14.000
And now, in 1934 say, we gotta go. We can't stay where we are, will be crushed. So we must go con raids, to some haven in the north, we might find. So let's just take the journey, which becomes.

00:55:14.000 --> 00:55:28.000
It lasts about a year. Couple of 6000 miles. These figures battery. But, and they're under attack the whole time, but the Japanese and by the National, but they serve 100,000 plus set up

00:55:28.000 --> 00:55:50.000
in the North Sea. And it's there that now builds that submit Chinese submit that nice right to to 1949, which breaks out to mainland China, and Wednesday, civil war, but the, the Soviet between 35 and 49 is the great base of Chinese communism, which eventually

00:55:50.000 --> 00:55:52.000
takes over the whole of China.

00:55:52.000 --> 00:55:59.000
So the March is the beginning of that breakaway that leads to the survival and the dominance of the Chinese Communist.

00:55:59.000 --> 00:56:03.000
It's a fascinating story in itself, lot of myths attached to it.

00:56:03.000 --> 00:56:05.000
But the basic story is told that they survived.

00:56:05.000 --> 00:56:18.000
Just about this long march, most of the women died on the march on it now becomes diamond in the party during that, because he he follows the path that takes them to salvation.

00:56:18.000 --> 00:56:26.000
Today, let's go to, let's go to the Soviet Union. Let's go west he said no we go north. And that, that's our survival, and he was right.

00:56:26.000 --> 00:56:32.000
And I give you, huge kudos to Chief prestige and his domination of the party dates from there.

00:56:32.000 --> 00:56:48.000
I'd add to the last book now is savagely.

00:56:48.000 --> 00:57:02.000
It wasn't mostly Chrome for its own sake, but he believes, unless you crush you will never completely wipe out the cancer, it will come back to us that sort of medical image grim story, faster, same time.

00:57:02.000 --> 00:57:05.000
Excellent. Okay.

00:57:05.000 --> 00:57:24.000
Question from did did mother mo play a significant part in shipping Chinese communism. She believes mo had committed her to an asylum for a time, so that's, that's a, that's another wonderful line with enough to take now and john Chen his wife, extraordinary

00:57:24.000 --> 00:57:26.000
woman

00:57:26.000 --> 00:57:28.000
and her beliefs.

00:57:28.000 --> 00:57:30.000
He said she was more balanced than I am.

00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:50.000
Because he meant by that she was so extreme she'd never get word on a, on a point of philosophy or policy political theory, but he used. She wants said he was his attack dog. she was arrested off his death in prison for life.

00:57:50.000 --> 00:58:01.000
He died in prison subset committed suicide. He was dumped off of importance during his time was that she laid the Cultural Revolution on it strictly cultural side.

00:58:01.000 --> 00:58:23.000
She was the one he commissioned to end on Communist or non mouse culture. So music painting opera, books, you know, many aspects of culture. It had to be memorized it had to be made to conform to mouse concept of proletarian peasant misplaced revolution.

00:58:23.000 --> 00:58:37.000
could be at stake. Now say the cheat sheet, put this into practice. You can't have you can't have culture as a distinct aspect of life. It's part of the cultural pattern, it must reflect the nature of our communist society.

00:58:37.000 --> 00:58:41.000
It's not, It's not a nice thing to do the weekend.

00:58:41.000 --> 00:58:44.000
comes in built into the political system.

00:58:44.000 --> 00:58:51.000
That's why the revolution, so sweeping it had to be absent. Get rid of all aspects of reaction.

00:58:51.000 --> 00:59:13.000
And she led the way that she had these special offers, written and performed. They were very very tedious went on forever, but you couldn't say that of course he loves.

00:59:13.000 --> 00:59:10.000
That's why it's such a great time will be poets who was in prison say it, what happened during the Cultural Revolution. We have no culture was as destructive as that.

00:59:10.000 --> 00:59:25.000
music was decorated with Porsche.

00:59:25.000 --> 00:59:29.000
It took some time to rebuild. Some say hasn't yet been rebuilt.

00:59:29.000 --> 00:59:35.000
China still suffers from the depth of the Cultural Revolution parent.

00:59:35.000 --> 00:59:38.000
Amazing phenomenal in human history.

00:59:38.000 --> 00:59:52.000
Okay, I think we've probably got time we're going to run over very slightly but I think we've got time for another couple of questions and then we'll need to call it a D and interesting one here from Elizabeth, can you compare the creation of Communist

00:59:52.000 --> 00:59:56.000
leaders with the president development of populist leaders.

00:59:56.000 --> 01:00:16.000
Ah. Ah, yes, that's a nice one isn't it populism, which we associate with the idea of leaders, going above politics appealing to the people directly. Some say feel about this, but Margaret Thatcher, was the first major populist in recent British history.

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But that notion that certain leaders certain politicians, understand the people in a way the ordinary politicians don't that indeed is the reason why comments leaders could emerge like like stone and like Lenny like punk punk like Castro.

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They claim a special a special understanding of the circumstances of revolution and wanted to establish that then they become accepted, very hard to challenge them is an absolute is in a sense it goes back to the brother like divine right monarchy, or

01:00:50.000 --> 01:01:04.000
or absolute monarchy in the days of the Chinese Emperor's, there are right in some way they are, God given didn't mean go to the personal set, but nature in some way as as granted these leaders insight and understanding denied to the, to the ordinary

01:01:04.000 --> 01:01:21.000
person. So what the boardroom revolution was to is to follow the leader for the great figures, they know that the high priests of the movement. He was a religious analogy, and it does, it does work in the political sense in those countries, eventually

01:01:21.000 --> 01:01:35.000
breaks down, but it works from all the way to progress in public life is to accept that concept of almost divine leadership and smile If read book, but Stalin's Federation.

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It is remarkable.

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Whether it's populist in the sense we stand is a tricky one I like the question, but I think there must be a connection Yes, the idea of leaders being necessary.

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Do we need leaders in politics, do we need Boris, do we need keep you name your favorite. Are they need. Yes, we'd say, because party structures need for more information required there I say it again hierarchy.

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So populism isn't the same as communism, but I can see where the question would arise. The idea of the leaders of major movements within the democratic whether their capacity, but they come together.

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Something that's a dangerous.

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Some would point to to right wing movements in Nazi Nazi Germany, or the Trump phenomenon in United States. Someone say that that's popular go wrong word.

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But the idea of leaders being necessary to give definition to movements, that's critical.

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You think of the suffragettes, they need leaders didn't like to define the policy.

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Think of the trade unions, you need major figures to define trade union policy.

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I think it goes with political organization.

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But tonight's question is, what we can't resolve. But yes populism.

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Thank you.

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One more and then we really will need to call it a day I know that there are some other questions but we will be taking them away afterwards so don't worry about that.

01:03:14.000 --> 01:03:17.000
So we've got a question from Sue here.

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And you were talking about difference between our workers revolution peasant revolution.

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She's asking know, China has a working proletariat, could they know have a puter Marxist revolution, or the surveillance prevent that.

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Another nice question.

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I tell you what comes in here which is fascinating. China is developing quite a powerful middle class.

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Those who are doing well. The growth of industry and comments have become very rich and wealthy brings influence just natural phenomenon.

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The problem for China is how do they satisfy the middle class and still remain comics.

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The other related question. how do you satisfy work aspiration and still remain comments. We know that in the history of feminism. In Europe, United States.

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What's up, workers get more and more influence, because they become more and more important.

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And they have to be taken on as part of the established.

01:04:19.000 --> 01:04:23.000
You have to recognize the strength of training.

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Now, is that going to happen in China was gonna work grossly underpaid. One of the reasons why China could undersell most other countries, is because it's work because they're so caught up.

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What happened, and it's likely to happen, almost has happened in other cultures. When the workers begin to realize that they're missing out there being exploited.

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Will they not appeal to communist Marxist Leninist malice theory and say we want a larger share of the world's this great nation is creating, We are, we are the means of that creation.

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So you take that threat. Because you take the middle class aspiration. We want more and more. We want society structure so that we middle class can have more, and the workers want.

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You have a recipe for difficulties.

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And whether the party can adapt itself in such a way to take all those demand acceptable. That's a big question.

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Very hard, and that's where I think that's why communism has to be

01:05:32.000 --> 01:05:36.000
you. It has to impose

01:05:36.000 --> 01:05:54.000
divergent. It can't allow dissensions, because they would challenge, and the worry for Chinese communists. Is it the growth of their economy has created this powerful industrial worker class, along with a powerful mental, and they will undermine, but

01:05:54.000 --> 01:06:06.000
but he likely to undermine the concept of the workers state that's created under mouth, and since that that's the big problem for the future. China may come in for great problem.

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What I could mention this, go any further.

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One of China is the rest of the world is so indebted.

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And so dependent upon China for goods, all your Christmas decorations come from China, I bet a lot of other things in your homes. Now, that's fine, that's fine for China, so long guys that demand for goods its continued, what happens.

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And it's a strong possible, especially thought West goes into serious decline recession spoke stroke depression possibility, then the demand for Chinese goods would fall away, and China wouldn't have sufficient domestic uptake to make up for the loss

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of international demand. That's another Chinese themselves point to the other thought on this. Another part to me in China last week to Chinese and confidence on this one.

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And they said, we've lost our soul that we've become rich, becoming richer, but what do we represented.

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We don't have abundant element within Chinese society, communism is a matter for the party only 12% during the party anyway. So what did we as a people get from the system.

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Where is the soul where is the, the element the buying. Where's the confusion notion of solidarity and harmony. If that is seriously undermined or damaged, it could lead to serious social unrest and distress in China.

01:07:31.000 --> 01:07:51.000
Those are some of the possibilities of the China watches point.

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Thank you so much Fiona and thank you everyone for coming. It's wonderful to be invited to give a talk for the WA today on a topic that is very close to my heart because as Fiona mentioned it's the subject of an upcoming book, my upcoming book centered

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visions smelling Art 1852 1914.

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So I'll just share my slides.

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And so my talk today. Discover the center of visions of pre-raphaelite painting.

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And that's again the title of my book which is coming out with Penn State University Press this September.

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So this is the first book, dedicated to the role of smell in 19th century painting, and it considers how and why 19th century artists gave visual form to smell, and how ideas about the sense of smell.

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In general, but also have individual odors. How about this smells can inform the meanings of paintings in ways that might seem quite surprising to us today because we just simply don't share those ideas anymore, or at least we don't hold them so deeply.

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And my book covers 19th century Western art quite body, and for the 19th century, but it has pre-raphaelite ism and Victorian aesthetic painting very much as it's hard.

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three things. And how fear of stench. A miasma in the 1850s allowed artists back was that he and his friend Spencer Stan hope to explore themes of moral pollution and in imagery of prostitution.

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And, and then I'm going to think about how the intensity of fragrance lens or kind of me as MC thrill and to reset his asceticism in the 1860s 1870s. And then, by that point will be gasping for some fresh air.

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So, that we will then focus on the idea of. I think an intriguing idea of the owner of the rainbow.

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And the sense of fresh wet grass after the sun has come out in a painting by Millie and but firstly who were the pre-raphaelite.

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And now, If I had time. I would pull from your, and what you know about the three red lights and I imagine it would be quite a lot, actually, that many of you get to tell me that they were a group of very useful artists who formed in 1848, and which was,

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of course, the year of chart ism of revolutions and Europe and Irish potato famine.

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And that john Everett Millie done taking up realities se and William home and hunt.

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I believe the three best known pre-raphaelite painters today, and they had the most substantial contribution to the movement. But there are other surrounding them, such as Rosetta's friend Spencer Stan hoop.

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His friend and teacher mentor for metrics Brown and his fellow artists and music later wife Elizabeth Siddle, as well as artists who became friends with these young men a little bit later.

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And he associated themselves with pre-raphaelite work like it was but James Morrison really moved to a new house.

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So, the pre wrath lights were the kind of yb as the young British artists of the mid Victorian period. They were the rebels of their day who took issue with the way that art was taught the world Academy schools.

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They wanted to paint works that were more truthful to nature. That didn't idealize in that manner that had become sanctified in art post rafaelle in the centuries post Rafale.

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They said they wanted to show life as it really is warts and all.

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And so for example, in lilies. Christ in house and his parents which shows Christ in the carpentry shop.

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He doesn't show us a kind of idealized Holy Family like Rafa L Word, and rather when Charles Dickens lifted this painting. He commented that Mary was a kind of red haired alcoholic, and the Christ was away next blubbering redhead boy in bed gown look

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like you've been playing in the gutter.

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This early purest form of pre wrath lighters and way you can see every detail of to try to us on the floor the death and Detroit is on the floor the grains and every word shaving.

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And others had turned away from these really heightened level of realism towards a lot of beauty of art for its own sake.

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That doesn't have to tell a story or have a moral purpose, it's not trying to teach us something. His purpose is simply to be beautiful.

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And we call the second phase of pre-raphaelite ism asceticism, and I just put it was actually the vision of fear meta Zam, or.

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Perfect.

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But what I want to suggest is the representation of smell was important in both the pre rapidly, and this latest statuses stage or phase three references.

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Now, you when you think of smell and the Victorian period. I'm sure you're thinking about the fact that Victorian cities stank cities across Europe stank me me UW London the Venice of drains during the 1850s the River Thames was tricked by the 400,000

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tons of sewage flushed into each day.

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Many open sewers drain directly into the river sludge festered festered on the door at a time.

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Lord Palmerston, and Prime Minister likened it to a staging pool leaking with inevitable and intolerable Horace in the 1840s 1850s those stench was not just unpleasant.

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It was frightening. Smells believed to be the cause of disease, and the supposed effects of stench was linked with the violent symptoms of cholera.

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You might have heard of the miasma theory, which originated in the Middle Ages and injured until the development of germ theory in the 1860s 1870s. So, the miasma theory maintain that color, another contagions and such as malaria which literally means

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bad air.

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And these were caused by inhaling noxious odors and thought to contain poisonous particles from decomposing organic organic matter so the idea that organic rotting matter particles floating in the air and a kind of vapor, we breathe in and and corruptors

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to the Thames was absolutely fear to give off a me as Nick stench spreading a disease mix the colors over London.

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I'm surprising a really then give him this smell paid a low profile in the visual arts in the early 1840s and early 1850s.

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Edwin Chadwick he was the public health officer had said that all smell is diseased and not just bad smell awful smell is diseased.

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It was not therefore considered good form to engage artistically with smell.

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At a time when the Royal Academy was teaching artists to create high art with ideal bt foul odor in deficit.

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me as Nick. Nick smells, that this would corrupt your body and your health but also your kind of moral purity as well.

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If the pre rationalized young rebels I mean they were really only in their early 20s.

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And with that unflinching realism and scrutiny of contemporary social moral issues themes like immigration and prostitution and the double gender double standards around sexuality.

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They were not afraid to bring stench. And these kind of issues of urban morality into the hallowed realms of high art, and the two words that I'm showing on the screen now is that he's found and Spencer Stuart hopes for to the past.

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And I was that he believed, and worked in the studio and his house. Flat at 14 Chatham place, which overlooked Blackfriars bridge, one of the most polluted structures of the Thames, so strange absolutely played him in the 1850s.

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For example, on August, the 14th 1854 he writes a letter to his arm, saying, hot insufferable these two days, very favorable FA to the spread of cholera.

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Yesterday the smell from the river was so bad I was obliged to go out and sometimes he had to leave his home all together.

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In 1858 escaped the worst of the reverse think by staying at William Morris his house in Red Lion squares are just a little bit more so away from the Thames, and in 1860, when he married Lizzie said all he took temporary lodgings in Hampstead, while searching

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unsuccessfully for a permanent house there, because he feared that the 10 side apartment was exacerbating her ailing health in this painting girl at a lattice from 1862.

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We're seeing this flush even feverish women, leaning out of the casement towards a vase of flowers, as if gasping for fresh fragrant air. And so this might work and reflect his experience of miasma of the 1850s, and the recent death of his wife Elizabeth

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Siddle by this point.

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It is a painting that fits within a tradition of Italian Renaissance paintings that depict women at windows.

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But, in the context of Victorian life. It also makes us think of the fragrant flowers that were grown or placed on window boxes and alleges to help sweeten Yeah.

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In found a flame head prostitute, with a sickly green color drops the heads against the wall, yards from attempts bridge at dawn drover.

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You can see who's wearing the shepherd smoke, bringing a calf to market recognizes her as his former fiance from the countryside. He's moved to the city, but she rejects his health, saying in the words of the perm that was that he wrote to accompany the

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painting. Believe me, I do not know you go away.

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Yeah, in the painting, industrial pollution is conveyed by the violet blue blur of the Thames. It's Wharf some warehouses and by dirty brown and yellow smudges here.

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The factory smoke. Meanwhile, the destitute woman's proximity links her to the putrid smelling River.

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So, like gf Watts's painting found drowned, and her corpse might yet be added to the rivers me hazmat cargo of watching to try to so this was a real kind of real theme of the 19th century the idea that prostitutes we may end up in the Thames.

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In a pen and ink study for found, which was begun by resetting around September at 53 rooms in the form of this tombstone visible just over the graveyard wall.

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So that's connecting her not only to the miasma of the Thames beyond, but also within miasma thought to arise from London's overcrowded cemeteries, which was another great problem to have victory hundred

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with Rosetti suffering from fruit horses, and with ill health plaguing the pre-raphaelite Circle it's not surprising really that he evoked ideas of dirt and infection and his works, or that Spencer stand who, who rented the apartment, just blow it was

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Betty's did say to instant hopes for to the past from 1859, the open window looking out onto the river suggest the infiltration of sent into the prostitutes chamber, no coincidence that this painting with paint them.

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It was shown to the world Kadam in 1859 but began in 1858, the year of the great stink.

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So, by 1858, the Thames in central London had become a cementing sewer, to quote, Michael Faraday.

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And this had been exacerbated by Chadwick's.

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The public helpful for this as well intention project to clear the city streets and cesspools and courtyard Marriott courtyard cesspools by redirecting the sewerage into the river.

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Cheering the great stink of July 1858 that's summer, fear of miasma escalated to fever pitch at the newly built houses of parliament, their windows with draped with sheets soaked in chloride.

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For a deadline to keep the smell at bay. And when this failed the house that she had to reset early.

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So if we look closely at this painting we see dirty clouds hanging over the water, indicating the pollution generated by the paper mills tanneries died works.

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I think I might have to leave that there.

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And, as well as the same ships that operated on the Thames chases of smart and stand near the window pane, creating a visual cannon work women's mismatched moral character can you see that, and smart on the window pane here.

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How long loose red hair, and the coal necklace on the table here, and symbolic of Medusa. And more broadly have found for towels. And the fact that she appears to be wearing a nice dress under a man's dressing gown during the daytime all identify her

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as a foreign woman.

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And given the amount of commentary on both prostitution and miasma in the month following the greats think us would have been well equipped to recognize the female figures being asked painted ass, as well as painted by 10s of that she breathes like the

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like the prostitute in Rosetta's found her for we can deduce has resulted from her move from country to city life, because here the violence in primroses littering the floor suggest and more innocent upbringing in the countryside, perhaps with their scent

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triggering the suggestion of nostalgia remorse and an awakening conscience if you know home and hunts painting of that title.

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And so her thoughts of the past. Maybe her kind of awakening conscious. They have no qualms me yet because the thump the flowers trampled underfoot.

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At the juxtaposition of the river stench, and the fragrant flowers, creates a kind of dichotomy of pure impure smell to reinforce the Victorian idea of the foreign woman.

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It was only after that long, hot summer of 1858, that when parliament was forced to close early that major sanitation reforms were lost implemented.

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And they they took a number of years.

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Following this release 10s active August 1858 Joseph paddle jets and chief engineer of the Metropolitan boards of works, led the gigantic project to transform the sewerage of London with 82 miles of tunnels and pumping stations, shifting the filth upstream

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and away from the capital.

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In the decades that followed the stench of the Thames abated in central London, and we've hit the motive force of Chadwick's claim it all smells disease waned.

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After decades of public health campaigns and public health facts, the river stench was no longer the cause of cultural anxiety there had once been an interestingly, artistic enjoyment of scented Lance last becomes more prevalent in our.

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Following the construction of basil Jesu is an over reforms. The last caller epidemic in the city occurred in 1866, the time had come, you might suggest we might suggest that, as it were to remove the metaphorical handkerchief for the mask.

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Press to the public knows, and to set the sense of smell free to pursue artistic goals.

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But perhaps even more important influence than sanitation on the representation of scent and smell in Victorian painting the discovery of germ theory.

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So, in 1876, well but Kosh discovered that bacillus, and praxis was the cause of anthrax. And in doing so, he proved that germs spread disease that it wasn't smell at all.

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Was that his paintings of seductress and femme fatales he stunners authentic were made Read between the 1860s and his death in 1882. In other words, they were created during those years of beating Pharaoh stench and a kind of gradual increased understanding

00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:27.000
of germ theory, but really the tenacity of these long centuries held established anxieties about the sense of smell as a hobby harbinger of disease of physical and moral corruption, cannot be underestimated.

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because it addressed the theme of Pandora. Several times between 1869 and 18 1718. In drawings and pastors and oil painting.

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And in these works, the evils of the world, take on the visual form of a few or a few adopting this kind of visual vernacular we're smelling miasma in Rosetta's past or Pandora that we're looking at here, fumes below from the casket forming a kind of

00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:16.000
perverse halo around the girl's head writing about it the pre-raphaelite poet and reset his friend Swinburne described Windham flesh lyst passions swirling in the smoke and fiery vapor.

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Do you see these kind of winged minsters here.

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It's kind of angelic sort of our devilish kind of forums.

00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:59.000
Yeah, on the fumes of incense. So the idea that early days were airborne carriers for germs persisted for several decades after the discovery of germ theory germ theory had proved that Colombo was a waterborne disease.

00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:11.000
But for a short time sanitarium even referred to microbes microbiota and miasma so there's been a collapsing of of germ theory and miasma theory together.

00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:27.000
Well germ theory proved that microbes rather than miasma cause disease odors continue to be seen as markers of this of conditions necessary for sickness, Because they indicated the presence of dirt and decay.

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So if you think of products like some like soap. And with the many images of laundry drying in the in the sunshine and fresh air and sunlight so piece is referencing older sanitary beliefs about the importance of sunshine and fresh air for exposing and

00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:57.000
dirt from Nixon crannies. Yeah, the products tonight so also claim to be antibacterial, they can you have that all the new knowledge intertwined in the public imagination.

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So something that you might ponder on after this lecture is whether you think that anything of the old miasma theory, still persists in the public consciousness today.

00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:30.000
And we all, I think, leaving germs. And, but all the old ideas of smell into what intertwined in our understanding, and to what extent for example do advertisers still promote the idea that German Germans are harbored or in smells or transmitted by file

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smells will be so the idea that fresh air sunlight impressions are the antidote to disease so, and what examples, come to mind is that

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certainly in the 1870s to the early 1900s, the representation of intense fragrance and to freeze on two paintings, such as Rosetta's lady Lilith from 1868, even as the miasma theory gradually seeded to germ theory in popular understanding as germ theory

00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:24.000
filtered into the public consciousness artists with some seemingly liberated to to pursue depictions of smelling smelling here at the same time the suggestion of heavy perfume remain deeply perturbing was perfect for kind of sensationalist conjuring of

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deadly so doctor says femme fatales and witches.

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In was actually stunners of the 1860s 1870s, the positioning of the female figures so close to the picture plane, creates a sense of aliveness in lady Lilith, the perfume bottles and dense roses evoke the idea of a heavily sweet and suffocating sense

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signifying her beauty and overwhelming attraction

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in Venus 30 Cordier, we see a bare breasted Venus luscious red lips cascades of Orban hair in buried in a profusion of full blown roses and honeysuckle.

00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:30.000
The sheer density and opulence of which brings to mind, a strong floor sent.

00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:38.000
of clean fragrance. This goddess of love this Enos, is an Eve like temptress.

00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:53.000
Indeed.

00:24:53.000 --> 00:25:08.000
And we might think about how the curling tons of the honey circle and like almost like fragrance trails the new arena and even sucking the viewer like insects, and your historian Gazelle the Pollock has described the honeysuckle flowers is this almost

00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:18.000
being too reminiscent of female genitalia or even hearing sense instance, you might imagine, is more intense adoptive, even the flowers that envelop her.

00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:33.000
Certainly, she's far more potent than the light simple floral toilet waters. Violet water lambda water, the etiquette favorite for English ladies in the 1860s.

00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:51.000
Like is sent to us painting resent his poems, after the period was saturated with sent imagery. And in fact what actually first got me into this subject of exploring century 19th century art was discovering that critics.

00:25:51.000 --> 00:26:16.000
curfew emanating from his works and corrupting the male viewer and particularly when I'm reading these poems now but one critic condemned the central ism rep per my last confession, finding it to be flushed with an unhealthy race, color, stifling the

00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:25.000
Another claim that the poem, and my sister sleep affects us like some pungent and pervasive perfume.

00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:40.000
And while yet another in 1894 likened Rosetta's poetry to the overpowering sweetness of high essence, so that amid all the old with deliciousness with gasping for breath of fresh air to air again.

00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:45.000
Likewise one critic observed that the frequency of the cross your path.

00:26:45.000 --> 00:27:03.000
And when presented with a resetting per evasive musk and incense, rather than have Heather and mounting time, suggesting that visit his work seemed to me imbue the stale air of enclosed feminized or even to follow size interiors.

00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:26.000
So I think that this suggestion of incense links resetting to the notion of a brotherhood so they call themselves the pre wrath like brotherhood.

00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:33.000
At a time when it was lifted and prejudice against Catholicism and high church which Elizabeth is country.

00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:54.000
So there's some kind of idea of of incense and ritual but also of stale air, and that's of tallies with the perception of Rosetta in later life as a recluse you processes himself with he's dark and townhouse on changing walk by the police attempts at

00:27:54.000 --> 00:27:55.000
Chelsea.

00:27:55.000 --> 00:27:59.000
Meanwhile, these references to must consider it.

00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:17.000
In the interview suggest that Anna Malik sexual femininity of the female figures in his works. So, so, in contrast to the delicate sense of violet and lavender worn by one, and between women

00:28:17.000 --> 00:28:20.000
will have swimming.

00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:24.000
So I said we might be gasping for some fresh air.

00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:41.000
For the third part of this talk. And so from the overpowering booed was of reset his femme fatales I want to turn now to one of Millie's paintings of the 1850s melees Brian girl which speaks, instead of freshness and outdoors and in fact, you know, I

00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:57.000
mentioned that it was those critical reviews of resetting the metaphors of smell that we use for his to describe his poems that really got me into this subject in the first place, but amongst that I also found the suggestion that while Miller's paintings

00:28:57.000 --> 00:29:11.000
were all kind of throwing perfume and it's kind of me as Nikola powering smell melees paintings before refresher and have it all of paintings of Scotland.

00:29:11.000 --> 00:29:26.000
For example, so I just became interested in metaphors of scent and it kind of grew from there. I think it's also interesting to think about the kind of light, breezy on kinetic and canvases of the pre wrath lies in the 1850s.

00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:35.000
So going back a bit from the Victorian asceticism that we've just been looking at to the 1850s again.

00:29:35.000 --> 00:29:54.000
And to think about these in the context of sanitation. So, Chadwick the public health officer was stipulating sunshine fresh air and cleanliness, and it really does seem that this imperative for sanitation informs the brightness of paintings.

00:29:54.000 --> 00:30:11.000
And that's partly because sanitation is also, prompting a dryer to clean up old master paintings. And so if you imagine old an old master painting hanging in a stately home over a smoky fireplace with the gentleman smoking cigars for centuries.

00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:16.000
And many of these paintings were so brown and tarnish.

00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:24.000
And in fact, it was commonly thought that they had been painted him he's kind of brown tones.

00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:33.000
And many Victorian painters were an 18th century painters were had been copying those kind of brown tones in their own contemporary work.

00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:51.000
But when sanitation campaigns occur. And there is a kind of parallel drive to clean up old master paintings many old paintings master paintings in stately homes are actually scrubbed with wire brushes and so the master gallery where I work was he did

00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:57.000
a lot of conservation work at that time I got to be not with with why my brushes.

00:30:57.000 --> 00:31:07.000
And so, and, but when the speeches were were were concerned, it was a complete revelation for the afterlife.

00:31:07.000 --> 00:31:21.000
The young artist actually had studied at the Royal Academy school which was in the same building as the National Gallery. And so they were seeing paintings, like Titian's backpackers and Ariadne for example.

00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:29.000
Before it was cleaned room home and hunted it was as dirty as an old te Granny's old TT tray.

00:31:29.000 --> 00:31:36.000
But then again sorry to get off duty that was completely blown away by the brightness of the colors.

00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:54.000
And so this is really important in shirts and maze, the blind go is a painting about site blindness and spiritual vision, and the painting to pick their blind girl and a younger able cited child resting by the wayside.

00:31:54.000 --> 00:32:02.000
The focus point of the paintings the brain goes face of her brilliant red lips and closed eyes lit up by the sunlight.

00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:18.000
Here the quiet. Girls quiet stillness suggests a heightened alertness to the sensors and sounds that we imagine coming from the meadow, as well as some rapt attention to spiritual inward vision.

00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:26.000
In contrast, the younger girl has twisted around and appears to gaze up and across to the double rainbow arching across the sky.

00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:45.000
Let's nestling back into the blind girl for refuge. As if amazed by an apprehensive of this blind spectacle was a clear contrast in between the blind girl, and the ABLE sighted girl who usually interpreted as sisters, as well as a contrast between the

00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:59.000
blind girl and ask the viewer. When they first exhibited the painting at the Academy in 1856, critics were startled by the minute observation of nature and the luminosity of the painting.

00:32:59.000 --> 00:33:10.000
So they were unaccustomed to the jewel like radiance of pre-raphaelite paintings, one critic for the afternoon remarked on the sweet meat rainbow of lollipop colors.

00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:21.000
And, indeed, released, son described describe how, and later describe how sunlight seems the issue from the picture.

00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:28.000
So we were reminded that, in contrast to the blind girl, he's unable to see the colors of the rainbow.

00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:37.000
And we as viewers are privileged to enjoy the bright colors and laborious details of the painting and to appreciate police skill as a painter.

00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:45.000
And we're invited to feel empathy for the girl, but at the same time appreciating our own 14 and having site.

00:33:45.000 --> 00:34:03.000
It's a painting that can be seen to be about the visualization of the senses to touch is implied by the gentleness of the blind girls fingers that she draws them along the fragile stem of a hair Bell, as well as by the contrast of the dump on which they're

00:34:03.000 --> 00:34:14.000
sitting and the woman for the sunlight in which the butterfly box on her sure sense is suggested by the flowers and the country air.

00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:20.000
Well, sound is signal by the rooks, which we might imagine coring.

00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:33.000
Yet the concertina, which is a prominent symbol of sound in the painting is silent and played on the girl's lap so perhaps hinting at the redundancy of the visual provoking them in multi sensory world.

00:34:33.000 --> 00:34:40.000
In other words, we have viewers after all, cannot smell or hear the sounds in the painting.

00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:53.000
Melee focuses on me enriching influence of the brain God's remaining senses, the goodness that she seems to radiate is the beauty of God's landscape channeled through her senses.

00:34:53.000 --> 00:35:07.000
The sense and sounds of the posture streaming to her shaping of thoughts and emotions in the painting nature is depicted as bountiful. The grass is lush and on the bank if you have else flower.

00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:11.000
Emily also suggest an element of harshness in nature.

00:35:11.000 --> 00:35:25.000
The grounds upon which the two figures. It appears damp. The track is muddy and on the posture rooks scavenge and cows and donkeys beasts of burden Grey's.

00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:45.000
The rainbow that shines against dark clouds accentuates this conjunction of the radiant and bleak. As the Bryan girl he would have glowing skin and glossy hair appears to radiate health and in a purity, to spite her tattered Lindsay was he work house

00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:59.000
clothes and rough knuckle two hands.

00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:15.000
The rich showings shame scavenging for work, echo that toil with her nose pressed against the folds of the bangles Henschel, the young girl is sharing experiencing at once the extraordinary vision of the rainbow.

00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:31.000
The symbol of the covenant, and the ordinary even comforting smell of old worn fabric, the disparity between the sublime illusion of the distant ephemeral rainbow, and the tangible proximity of the shore which he holds on to her face, cause their face

00:36:31.000 --> 00:36:38.000
makes the distance between the divine covenant, this promise of salvation realities.

00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:44.000
And the realities of everyday hardship or the most poignant.

00:36:44.000 --> 00:37:02.000
I think that really may have conceived of the read headlines go as a victim of the 1848 Irish potato famine, during which blindness from epidemic found there was rife and 1 million Irish emigrated many of them coming to England.

00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:21.000
Certainly the blind go responds to the severity of the poor Laura 1834, which made no provision for vagrants one outcome of that was a dramatic rise in the number of blind children who were moved into the care of voluntary institutions for the blind set,

00:37:21.000 --> 00:37:35.000
and the 19th centuries or a groundswell of charities for support for the blind Association for promoting the general welfare of the blind was founded in 1854, for example.

00:37:35.000 --> 00:37:50.000
And so, in this climate Millie's painting played to a growing sentimentality and pity empathy for the blind. He shows Blanco wearing a simple headdress forming a dominant pyramid structure in the painting.

00:37:50.000 --> 00:38:02.000
So he's drawing on the iconography of the Virgin from from Renaissance altarpieces. He showing the blind Gallus is one of the deserving poor.

00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:20.000
Now, my big discovery, with this painting is that Millay may have had in mind a poem entitled The blind girl from 1845 by a very little known poets and the Cambridge educated banker writer and Robert snow.

00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:39.000
And in this poem, and the blind girl addresses, her sister.

00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:53.000
and explains. I stranger to weeping evermore awake was sleeping flows the current of my joy, and she goes on to rejoice in her rich sensorial experience of God's bounty.

00:38:53.000 --> 00:39:01.000
It is she says by the sense of blindness smelling, I know the fields, the Lord has blessed.

00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:06.000
And we can see the Broncos wearing a label that says pity the blind.

00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:22.000
Yet relays creating a sense of pathos, not only by urging our pity, and our gratitude for our own senses, but also for the recognition that the blind girl doesn't deem herself to be dispossessed, but as which with the blessings of the Lord.

00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:45.000
She enjoys for example the concertina Music The birdsong the meadow sense, the warmth of the sun, and snows perm concludes with the copper. God he made a kind beauty for one and all gay fragrance for the blind in both the painting and the poem far from

00:39:45.000 --> 00:40:05.000
pitting the blind girl invited to commend her serenity and faith in the Lord, which makes her worthy of Victoria and charity makes her one of the deserving poor in snows, his sister reads, and then what blind girl he says.

00:40:05.000 --> 00:40:28.000
Sister, I make new being pretenses waiting that's my gifts with mine for I have this now have senses to comprehend that word to shine.

00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:46.000
So, next some queries was a kind of journal where people would write inquisitive questions, and the replies would follow in the following issues, so kind of forum really, and over several issues readers exchange and literary references to the center of

00:40:46.000 --> 00:40:58.000
the rainbow the age of the rainbow the sense of wet grass and flowers center Meadow when the sun comes out after a rainstorm and a rainbow is to be seen.

00:40:58.000 --> 00:41:16.000
So, it's actually very rumor that we now know as Patrick or, and the passage that was cited from the poem in nursing queries and Jon Snow's Pam, and needs.

00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:21.000
You said you saw the rainbow cresting the heavens with colors based on earth.

00:41:21.000 --> 00:41:36.000
And I believe it fills the showers with music. And when sweet and common breezed and Briar Rose Bowers. I think the rainbow has touch their viewers of the painting rainbows held deep Christian significance.

00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:44.000
As a reminder of the Divine covenant and the promise of redemption. The rainbow suggest the Better World to Come in fact.

00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:47.000
Later, in one part of her.

00:41:47.000 --> 00:42:08.000
She says that she looks forward to, to salvation and that in heaven, Christ her maker will give her new, new and better vision, so she'll be able to see, again, by the 19th century, the rainbow was also a symbol of Christ.

00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:24.000
For example in 1865 across the Atlantic. The Reverend James Manning show it he was a Presbyterian minister in North Carolina rites of passage new American gentleman hours at home that captures this theme so he wrote.

00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:34.000
Christ is the token of a tempest ended, darkness past, even as the bow only comes forth when the rain is over and gone.

00:42:34.000 --> 00:42:42.000
The Sun of Righteousness beans out sweetly and clearly in the souls purify their builds the clouds of sorrow and sin.

00:42:42.000 --> 00:43:00.000
The heart is all fresh and fragrant with new spiritual life. That's when the grass and trees sparkle with drops left by a departed shower, peace and stillness rain widened high in the sky is really the jeweled arch of hope.

00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:16.000
Millie's read him pastoral see might then be considered a scene of redemption and so allegorical sacramental landscape in which community rest achieve through a sentence or a prison appreciation of the natural world.

00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:29.000
The rainbow signifies God's omnipresent, the sewing de de sent, and if sense offered a bridge between Earth and Heaven, the rainbow gives that bridge of visible sign.

00:43:29.000 --> 00:43:38.000
So, there are many more pre-raphaelite and ascetic movement paintings that I could have discussed with you today.

00:43:38.000 --> 00:43:55.000
For example, Millie's autumn leaves and ideas of memory center memory taking back to memories of childhood, and the style to in a sense of grief is painting with me, just at the very end of the Crimean War.

00:43:55.000 --> 00:44:14.000
I could have talked about Simeon Solomon's and homoerotic paintings of Catholic ritual ism an incentive, a time when homosexuality was of course a legal, but also high church ritual was to be in England, and the legalities of incense was being explored

00:44:14.000 --> 00:44:16.000
in church courts.

00:44:16.000 --> 00:44:30.000
And I could have talked for example about burn James's paintings Briar Rose series for example I'm the kind of ideas of the soporific effects of scent of centers are kind of drug.

00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:47.000
And I could have talked about water houses the soul of the race, which one of my favorite pre-raphaelite paintings, in which centers imagine just the essence of the rose centers and kind of magical portal to the soul of the road.

00:44:47.000 --> 00:44:58.000
And if you want to know more about me, you'll have to wait for my book coming out in September. And so I'll leave it there and see if we have any questions.

00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:09.000
Thank you very much for that. Christina, that was absolutely fascinating and a great insight to a kind of aspect of it which I've certainly never thought of it.

00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:21.000
And so hope everybody enjoyed that. And particularly like to comment that one of our participants made reality, who said, life would be so much easier to have corporate 19 had a smell.

00:45:21.000 --> 00:45:23.000
With.

00:45:23.000 --> 00:45:41.000
Anyway, wait, wait school on to some questions. No, let me just do a little bit school don't know we did have one question from em bleak Sonia do your first name, just scrolling up here.

00:45:41.000 --> 00:45:43.000
It was about.

00:45:43.000 --> 00:45:52.000
So many images of prostitutes, was that acceptable to visitors to exhibitions or even buyers paintings.

00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:54.000
What you bought you think about that.

00:45:54.000 --> 00:46:05.000
No, it's very controversial very shocking and the Royal Academy show to see paintings of

00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:21.000
prostitutes that alone kind of working class women, I mean, as I said earlier at the Royal Academy teaching some teachings that come from. So Joshua Reynolds you actually found that the Royal Academy and me and late 18th century, and the prerequisites.

00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:41.000
Ms circle, two peoples were still following the same kind of teachings in the very early days of the word Academy, it was very much to idealize beauty to not show real women but goddesses or kind of perfect mother's very sentimental paintings, and certainly

00:46:41.000 --> 00:46:54.000
completely shocking to see kind of them working class physiognomy let alone to be confronted with themes that were quite tricky.

00:46:54.000 --> 00:47:06.000
Yeah, and sort of moving on from that started it and just to say the reviews were so bad that mean was it barely

00:47:06.000 --> 00:47:20.000
exhibited in public again after this early is the pre wrath lights and he just sold to his, his patrons, because it was just so

00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:23.000
interesting. Yeah, what was going to move on to was.

00:47:23.000 --> 00:47:26.000
Why was painter so preoccupied with red hair.

00:47:26.000 --> 00:47:45.000
Is it the same model, or is that the more significance than that, do you think, and why I mean they chose their models because they red hair. And so yes there are some recurring models but there was, there was a real kind of taste for pop for red hair.

00:47:45.000 --> 00:48:01.000
And I mean for in terms of Victorian kind of morality pictures, it makes a good link back to Mary Magdalene he's, he's traditionally represented with red hair so he has a way of kind of suggesting the fall and women, and.

00:48:01.000 --> 00:48:04.000
And then I suppose in those kind of.

00:48:04.000 --> 00:48:14.000
So doctor says some Patel paintings again it kind of links that so sexuality, through

00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:15.000
much later.

00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:30.000
So more like 1900 1984 and Victorian sexologist and we have even Brock who was Victorian sexologist, and he was writing about smell and, and, and sexuality, and he.

00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:35.000
I'm sorry if there's anyone with red hair watching.

00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:51.000
But he made he kind of says that Victorian of the women with red hair have a more kind of pungent more sexual odor themselves so this was a kind of idea that was possibly in the kind of sight guys even earlier than 1900 maybe mid, mid from the mid 19th

00:48:51.000 --> 00:49:08.000
century shocking and interesting. And no, there's a, there's an interesting comment here from living lips when we were looking at the painting thoughts of the past, by expensive stunt woman has quite a masculine face.

00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:13.000
Is that a significant stare.

00:49:13.000 --> 00:49:21.000
And I can't think of the top of my head here the model is for that but it was certainly a woman.

00:49:21.000 --> 00:49:27.000
There are pre-raphaelite paintings, where

00:49:27.000 --> 00:49:41.000
for example I'm thinking of was Betty's Annunciation where he uses his brother to form the, the body of the angel, I think, and

00:49:41.000 --> 00:49:49.000
I'm sorry I don't, I don't think there is, I don't think there's a reason why she would look in a matter.

00:49:49.000 --> 00:50:00.000
I mean, possibly that's a way of sort of showing her as a, as a prostitute actually that she saw lost something of her kind of natural pure femininity.

00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:02.000
Okay.

00:50:02.000 --> 00:50:17.000
Okay. And we've got another one this is all about significance here we've got a question from Elizabeth rowland's, it's when we were talking about flowers and different flowers have different significance of symbolism and the flowers portrayed seem to

00:50:17.000 --> 00:50:21.000
have Betty heady pair of jeans.

00:50:21.000 --> 00:50:26.000
Yes it is the Victorian language of flowers, you could.

00:50:26.000 --> 00:50:35.000
You can still if you want by by just a leaf a little gift set out all the different flowers and the different meanings.

00:50:35.000 --> 00:50:46.000
And so, violence, for example, I didn't show you what's his painting she is painting choosing which is the National Portrait Gallery, which shows, Ellen Terry.

00:50:46.000 --> 00:51:07.000
Terry, the actress who was what's his wife for a short while when she was 17 and choosing between chameleons and violence. So it's the sort of show me unscented flower, or the very humble modest violence and violence was a symbol of modesty and humility,

00:51:07.000 --> 00:51:20.000
and she going to be an actress or she going to be a good wife to elderly artists and their flaws in the paintings that I've shown me.

00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:36.000
I don't know you have to look them up in the him of English or between language of flowers, but I'm kind of less obvious choices I think honeysuckle is not one that would be so kind of quite so cool readily read and raises have an awful.

00:51:36.000 --> 00:51:42.000
Simply symbolism and

00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:48.000
white roses can be a symbol of innocence purity Virgin Mary.

00:51:48.000 --> 00:52:10.000
Yellow roses I think traditionally associated with poor last morning pink raises, and I think more with love and sensuality, which is what you obviously haven't in the city, and Venus paintings have lots to explore there but also the kind of sense of

00:52:10.000 --> 00:52:29.000
those paintings the sense of these flowers as well. And so the Victorian language of flowers doesn't discuss the smell of these flowers, and certainly if you kind of get into that meeting lots of Victorian sources that you have to kind of go on and Victorian

00:52:29.000 --> 00:52:34.000
ideas about smell wherever you can find them in gardening books, etiquette books perfect guides wherever.

00:52:34.000 --> 00:52:58.000
But you'll start to kind of pick up ideas about and attitudes, different smells including floral sense, and particularly some flowers like jasmine has a very kind of sweet but also something a bit dark and kind of Malachi, about this a little bit so hopefully

00:52:58.000 --> 00:53:11.000
that's very interesting when that appears in in sort of seductress kind of paintings has them a chemical called end all in it which gives you that kind of sorcery sweetness.

00:53:11.000 --> 00:53:12.000
Okay.

00:53:12.000 --> 00:53:25.000
Right. Okay, let's look at butterflies now what's, what's the system gene what's the significance of the butterfly, because it does seem to appear and, you know, some of these paintings, what what's the significance of that.

00:53:25.000 --> 00:53:32.000
Yeah, so the butterfly is a symbol of the soul, and it can also be symbol of resurrection.

00:53:32.000 --> 00:53:47.000
And, but I think it's also a kind of symbol of center as well so and butterflies rematching to be drawn to the center of flowers, but also to give a try to imagine to kind of give off the center of their own at the same time it's been drawn to the center

00:53:47.000 --> 00:54:07.000
of flowers and the scent and butterflies are both kind of airborne ephemeral phenomena so is the butterfly can be a kind of way of giving a visual form to send if you like, but I think he likes painting is specifically thinking about centers are kind

00:54:07.000 --> 00:54:11.000
of emblematic of soul.

00:54:11.000 --> 00:54:13.000
Okay.

00:54:13.000 --> 00:54:19.000
And a question from an IT and talking about the painting the blind girl.

00:54:19.000 --> 00:54:29.000
How big is it. She's saying it needs to be really large to be able to see all the details that you were telling us about when you were talking about the painting.

00:54:29.000 --> 00:54:34.000
And when I saw somebody put the dimensions in

00:54:34.000 --> 00:54:42.000
my, in my memory it's sort of compare it to

00:54:42.000 --> 00:54:44.000
my fault.

00:54:44.000 --> 00:54:48.000
In some

00:54:48.000 --> 00:54:53.000
painting, but it's not a massive library. So what did you say, the size of a person.

00:54:53.000 --> 00:55:00.000
No no space, what would be more like a smartwatch seven year old.

00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:09.000
Interesting. Okay, I'm just scrolling down to see what other questions that we may have.

00:55:09.000 --> 00:55:15.000
You do have to getting close to see all those details and my slide didn't really do it justice.

00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:30.000
And when you get out in front of the painting, you really can see like every blade of grass, but actually even by that point really starting to move away from that really intense realism that he'd done so he's earlier to kind of transition work early,

00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:32.000
and towards this more kind of aesthetic stage of their work.

00:55:32.000 --> 00:55:47.000
towards this more kind of aesthetic stage of their work. Yeah. Okay. And I'm just going to scroll down just to see if we've got any last questions before we start to wrap up.

00:55:47.000 --> 00:55:56.000
But lots and lots of comments, which I will forward it on to you tomorrow, shuttle quite interesting.

00:55:56.000 --> 00:56:07.000
No, I think we've got to all of the questions I think. Thanks very much for sending your questions and everybody and thanks to you, Christina, and for providing the answers for us.

00:56:07.000 --> 00:56:10.000
And okay, what I'll do is I'll launch our pool as usual.

00:56:10.000 --> 00:56:16.000
And it would be much appreciated. If you could fill that in for me that would be fantastic.

00:56:16.000 --> 00:56:18.000
And so, next week.

00:56:18.000 --> 00:56:20.000
It's Chinese New Year.

00:56:20.000 --> 00:56:38.000
So we are going to be taking a look at China, and it's 100 years of under communism and promotes beginnings in the 1920s, and through to its present formulation under vision thing, which should be really interesting and eye opening quite current, maybe

00:56:38.000 --> 00:56:49.000
not quite as cut into Russia, at the moment, but it will certainly be a really interesting Listen, I think. So that's it really from myself and Christina, I think so.

00:56:49.000 --> 00:57:19.000
I hope you all have a lovely evening, and we shall see you next week. Thanks very much. Thank you.

0:00

that should be us recording now and um i think claire without further

0:05

ado um i shall hand over to you thank you very much fiona and thank you

0:11

everyone for coming today and having me along i'm going to move straight into screen

0:17

sharing for our consideration of the virtuous sidekick so moving in

0:22

and we'll get ourselves on to slide show on the current slide so hopefully

0:29

everyone can see that are we okay excellent all right the virtuous psychic

0:36

a figure i have always found fascinating and much underestimated

0:41

when i first got interested in stories and literature and hence this lecture

0:48

it makes sense for us to start with getting a definition for the purposes of

0:53

this talk of what a virtuous psychic might be what i'm proposing today

1:01

is that the virtuous sidekick is a secondary character in terms of the

1:07

text but usually the protagonist's roughly social equal

1:13

servants are not really under discussion here there's an enormous body of work on

1:18

servants and at the analysis observance but today we're focusing on the protagonists

1:24

broadly social equal this is of course problematized if our

1:29

protagonist is royalty then the sidekick is likely to be

1:34

a high-status courtier or a scholar such as horatio and hamlet and or a blood

1:40

relative they have a secure position in society

1:47

they're middle class or they're gentry or they're educated or they're a

1:52

combination of these and they have a secure reputation within

1:57

that society and this secure position and reputation

2:02

often helps set up by contrast the protagonists uneasy relationship with

2:09

their society the fact that they are in some way set at odds to it

2:14

banquo in macbeth for example is a faithful and trusted warrior within the warriors

2:20

society who warns macbeth against disloyalty to their king duncan and

2:26

consorting the dark forces unlike macbeth banquo remains within the moral

2:32

frameworks of his society what else can we say by defining our

2:39

sidekick well they are also essentially virtuous they are loyal

2:45

usually regarded as prudent dependable the wise counsellor figure

2:53

these steady qualities are built into the advice they frequently offer

2:59

they often advocate the values of stoicism rationalism

3:04

moderation and often the concrete rather than the imaginative and again we've got a

3:11

contrast going on there with the more extreme stances taken by

3:16

the protagonist in pride and prejudice as we will see jane bennett's tranquil acceptance of

3:22

the society around her contrasts with elizabeth bennett's shrewd eye for the hypocrisies and

3:29

harshnesses near its surface the concrete

3:36

the concrete suggestions offered by the side kick are full of good worth

3:42

and often lack emotional weight we will see that benvolio in romeo and juliet advises romeo to examine other

3:50

beauties when romeo is madly in love with a girl who'll have nothing to do with him now this is full of common sense there

3:56

are other pebbles on beach fishes in the sea and potentially thoroughly annoying to

4:02

someone in love more of this later so who might some sample sidekicks be

4:09

well from tragedy we can draw on [Music] which we're going to we're going to look

4:15

at in further detail bancro i've mentioned macbeth horatio in hamlet in comedy you might consider senior as

4:22

you like and as you like it jane bennett will be one of our key focuses today

4:27

from pride and prejudice herbert pocket from great expectations is another

4:33

and the sidekick has been part of literature since literature

4:38

began in the endeared virgil's great epic poem which we think's composed 29 to 19

4:45

before common era the great psyche there is a cartese and the term always used of him is fides

4:53

akatos faithful her cases john watson who we will be

4:58

having time on later from sherlock holmes stories is another classic sidekick

5:04

helen burns from jane eyre and moving into 20th century authors those of you who are fans of rose

5:10

tremaine may remember from her glorious novel restoration there is the psychic john pierce

5:18

children's literature has an abundance of psychics from eagle of the ninth and we're going

5:25

back in time and diana from anne of green gables and the modern ron and hermione a dual

5:32

side kick in the harry potter series i have chosen three particularly

5:37

familiar figures benfolio jane bennis and john watson not um i hasten to add

5:43

because i worship the literary canon but simply for speed and ease of reference

5:48

their figures would likely be familiar with so

5:54

what are the authorial challenges and questions the virtuous psychic offers

6:00

they are as we've said usually more conventional and socially conservative than the protagonists

6:06

and of course virtue is notoriously hard to make interesting

6:13

it's a truism that most actors would so much rather play the villainous character because they're much more

6:20

inherently satisfying to work on so this raises these questions for the

6:27

virtuous sidekick what is their literary function or purpose these perhaps rather dull

6:34

figures how is the author to make the sidekick dramatic

6:40

and why does the sidekick so often disappear

6:45

they so frequently vanish from the text sometimes never to be seen again as in

6:51

the case of benvolio sometimes they return for reasons we'll go into

6:56

but they vanish and that raises the question why

7:02

so let's begin with our first psychic benvolio from romeo and juliet

7:09

if we're to consider an elizabethan text we need to first of all consider some

7:15

context and what the ideals of friendship were across the renaissance and early

7:21

jacobean period to do this we have to consider of course classical

7:29

authors from roman from greece given the enormous weight the period gave to

7:34

classical learning and we start with day amikitiya by cicero

7:42

as a text which had such weight at the time of shakespeare and just before and just after

7:50

tom look for in his 2007 study male friendship in shakespeare at his

7:55

contemporaries suggests a key text from this time is the translation of dave

8:01

mcday and mckissie by john tiptop that was intense published by paxton

8:08

it was hugely influential as a guide on friendships it influenced the great scholar erasmus

8:15

writings and its ideals were popularized by sir thomas elliot's enormously influential

8:22

treaties on education and statecraft called the book named the governor

8:28

and here's the key idea that similitude likeness

8:34

creates friendships joins them and dissimilitude de severus them i

8:40

couldn't resist keeping the original spelling the emphasis here is on likeness

8:49

and this is carried through by another key classical author to the renaissance

8:55

that paul identifies who is of course aristotle

9:00

and aristotle maintained that pairs of friends and the renaissance brought into this idea of friendship should be seen

9:07

as one soul in two bodies this amateur amity consists in equality and similarity

9:15

as the aristotle said in the mathian ethics

9:20

and finally one of the great essays of the period shakespeare's contemporary francis bacon offered the following

9:27

thoughts on friendship a little later in the period but very much echoing the sentiments we've seen

9:34

bacon says in his essay on friendship a principle fruit of friendship is the

9:40

ease and discharge of the fullness and swellings of the heart

9:46

it maketh daylight in the understanding a beautiful metaphor

9:51

and then baking goes on to emphasize the vital importance of faithful counsel from a friend

9:58

it's about confiding it's about getting coming to a new understanding

10:04

it's about faithful advice

10:10

so romeo and juliet written we think somewhere between 1591-5

10:15

i'm sure benvolio is a very familiar figure to us here but let's have a quick

10:21

reminder of him he's a member of the noble family the montagues who hold a fatal and

10:27

long-standing feud with other the other aristocratic family in verona the capulets

10:33

he's a relative he's referred to as cousin by romeo lord montague's son our

10:39

protagonist alongside juliet he is by implication

10:45

contemporary age with romeo and he's a close friend of romeo's as

10:50

we'll see he listens to romeo's languishings over rosaline the girl

10:55

romeo is in love with the mutant opening of the play and he disappears

11:01

then valeo vanishes after act 3 c1 in a five hack play

11:12

let's move on to some key quotations then from this character this sidekick

11:20

is opening speech parts fools put up your swords you know not what you do

11:26

is full of significance the first time we see benvolio he is

11:31

demonstrating the typical sidekick's virtues romeo and juliet begins with a fight

11:38

between the two feeding houses benfolia tries to break it up

11:44

he seeks the rational the peaceable it should be emphasized though

11:50

that this is an intensely dramatic entrance provided by this character

11:56

benvolio's rational response is coupled with dynamic action bursting in on the

12:02

scene there's also an important point here about sidekicks advice and intervention

12:11

as we will see a psychic's advice or intervention frequently generates drama

12:17

either through being ignored which is what happens here or flawed

12:23

here benvolio's wise rebruke he's trying to beat down the swords of the captains

12:28

and montague servants actually intensifies the drama in drawing his sword to settle the fight

12:36

he unintentionally provokes tibald who immediately follows him and thinks

12:42

behold here is the montague up for a fight tibbles as a capulet is only too happy

12:48

to join him later in that same scene

12:55

we have another important quotation concerning benfolio as sidekick

13:00

i would now work so happy by thy stay to hear true shift lord montague says

13:08

when later on in the same scene and lords and lady montagues speak of their sons romeo's unhappiness to benvolio

13:16

he tells them that he will try and find out what is wrong

13:21

here we see two standard roles for the sidekick firstly they're frequently bridging

13:28

figures benvolio offers to bridge the gap between old and young parents and child

13:36

secondly he creates a bridge between character and audience

13:43

and in doing so reveals narrative through his role as confidence

13:49

we find out romeo's difficulties and so does the audience

13:55

benvolio is placed in a counsellor role that with bacon's comments on friendship

14:01

almost a confession but montague uses the phrase we can see their true shrift

14:08

shrift being the word for confession a mesophore for confidence confidence

14:15

through benfolio's questioning romeo as a supportive friend we the audience begin to find out about

14:22

radio's character we're into this sensible and rather

14:28

unimaginative advice later in the same scene benvolio listens with admirable patience

14:36

to romeo's rather inane wallowings about how much he loves rosaline the

14:41

girl he thinks he is in love with and who rejects romeo's advances

14:47

there is an element of comedy here that the psychic helps to generate

14:52

romeo comes out with lines such as in sadness cousin i do love

14:58

a woman and benvolio has to patiently hear him out

15:03

a thankless task for the sidekick and one we can all recognize we have i'm

15:09

sure all been in the position of listening to a friend who is very deeply in love and just won't stop going on

15:19

a further dramatic role emerges here also that of the foil

15:25

a character whom the author presents as a deliberate contrast to another figure

15:31

in order to reinforce the latter's characteristics

15:36

benvolio's rationalism is deliberately and sharply contrasted by shakespeare

15:43

against romeo's sentimentality benvolio's advice is one again that is

15:50

highly recognizable to anyone who is trying to help the love smitten

15:56

it is wise examine other beauties prudent and thoroughly unimaginative

16:04

it's also rich in drama ironic foreshadowing

16:10

is really evident in this i feel romeo will indeed go to a capulet ball

16:16

that evening and he will see other beauty and it will be juliet

16:23

benvolio's advice here is impeccable and actually ironically

16:29

adds to the sense of ill-fated love that permeates the plane

16:37

we move on to act three scene one and benvolio comments early early in

16:42

this scene the day is hot in act three scene one and act three is

16:49

so often the turning points that the action initiates displays and despite benvolio's efforts to avoid trouble and

16:56

keep the peace once again trying to bridge and keep calm two opposing sides or

17:03

differing signs a fatal brawl takes place between the two families

17:08

in which two young men micuccio romeo's friends and tybalt from the capulet side

17:14

both die this quotation is from benvolio's opening speech to an already thoroughly

17:21

temperamental and brought up mercutio it's worth pointing out here that

17:28

shakespeare uses the sidekick as a means to establish in this phrase that in this

17:34

sentence the day is hot both atmosphere and pathetic fallacy

17:40

and hence drama this opening to act 3

17:45

immediately sets the tone of tension the heat of the day reflecting the hot

17:50

tempered exchanges which lead to disaster once more we see the psychic attempting

17:58

to offer excellent advice he says let's just get back inside

18:03

only to have this ignored it's a potent and dramatic effect

18:10

mikushio to whom benvolio offers these remarks the day is hot the capulets abroad let's retire

18:16

is going their way there is so often a poignancy to the sidekick's advice

18:23

which heightens the drama especially in tragedy if only they had been listened to

18:34

benfolio is left with a dead friend on his hands

18:40

and a dead capulet and he is asked by the prince who has

18:45

come on too late to the stage benvolio who began this bloody fray

18:53

we last see benfolio in the unutterably unenviable position

18:58

of having to explain to the prince of verona what happened many of us will have been in this rotten

19:05

position of having to explain a fight to a senior person whilst both sides of the

19:10

fight are standing there glaring at you it is a classic sidekick's burden

19:17

yes again the bridging role of the sidekick is in evidence and it's one which puts an already

19:23

distressed character under yet more strain and gains our sympathy

19:31

so what can we say of benvolio as a significant trigger

19:36

as an important figure he is dynamic

19:41

his very virtues create drama he's a bridging figure

19:48

between old and young audience plot and character he helps to supply narrative

19:54

he asks romeo questions and we find out important points to the story and the

19:59

character his confidante role supports the renaissance models of

20:06

friendship disburden yourself talk to me get a daylight in your understanding

20:14

he generates comedy and his role as a foil the rational against

20:21

romeo's sentimentality he also generates irony

20:28

through the foreshadowing i've mentioned and the failure of his advice heightens

20:33

drama he generates sympathy caught between

20:39

warring factions and establishes atmosphere the day is hard

20:46

he disappears and this i would suggest answer the

20:52

drama surrounding romeo because after act three scene one after

20:57

benvogio has given an explanation of what has happened to the prince we don't see that character again

21:06

and this i would suggest emphasizes the fact that romeo has to

21:11

work things out for himself or not that he is isolated

21:16

and that of course is part of his tragedy benvolio's rational solutions

21:23

have no place as tragedy works its way through

21:30

i would suggest also that in benvolio's disappearance we have the renaissance ideal of

21:37

friendship tragically unfulfilled these were two young men who you could

21:42

argue had similitude of an age shared family backgrounds

21:48

they were one was offering himself as confident to the other

21:54

but part of the tragedy of this is that the renaissance idea of friendship is unfulfilled

22:00

because when polio disappears there can be no understanding there is no faithful council faithfully

22:07

attended to from a sympathetic contemporary shakespeare i would argue

22:13

removes penfolia and the renaissance ideal of friendship

22:18

cannot be left out it's part of what makes the play so tragic

22:25

perhaps time for some comedy

22:32

and let's move on to jane bennett from pride and prejudice

22:38

it's worth before we move into this character considering

22:43

whether what the female psychic has also sadly working against her

22:52

the conventional expectations of women actually may lead to a more conventional

22:59

and possibly problematized character if you're female

23:05

and a psychic the female psychic has all the male cyclic problems to do with

23:11

conventionality only more so the additional constraints on the female

23:17

behavior and agency due to traditional expectations of women out of these

23:22

problems the plot for women is a much more predictable narrative arc it's usually

23:29

driving towards marriage as robert miles points out in the cambridge companions of pride and

23:36

prejudice women are expected to find their realization in marriage and household

23:43

historically they have a lack of agency that could reduce their capacity to

23:50

generate drama again let's briefly remind ourselves

23:56

about jane bellet's character pride and prejudice the novel she features in support was an 1813 text jane is the

24:04

daughter of a gentleman but due to her father's lack of responsibility

24:09

is not possessed of much money so she's part of the leisured classes

24:15

but she does not stand to achieve much by wear for dowry once again we see a confidant

24:22

she is the confidant of the novel's protagonist lizzie bennet the second oldest daughter of the family her sister

24:30

again here we see similitude elizabeth and jane not only share family

24:37

circumstances as romeo and benvolio did but are also the two most intelligent

24:43

thoughtful and principled of the bennett sisters their younger sister mary being alas

24:48

aprig and kitty and lydia the two younger sisters after that being flighty and immature

24:55

in lydia's case to a dangerous degree

25:01

jane loves and is loved by a prosperous gentleman mr bingley

25:06

despite the opposition of his sisters and his friend mr darcy

25:11

darcy's sisters particularly due to jane's lack of money and for other personal reasons

25:18

darcy also objects to this but furthermore to the poor behavior of jane's parents

25:25

and the foolishness of the younger three bennett sisters and once again our sidekick nj

25:33

disappears from the text during critical chapters when elizabeth is visiting derbyshire away from them

25:41

though jane does commute communicate still via vitally important messages to lizzy

25:48

as we shall see key quotations then

25:54

for jane bennett early on she's talking with elizabeth

26:00

and reflecting on her first meeting with bingley and she says i do not wish to be hasty in censuring

26:06

anyone in this quotation we see how much jane

26:13

reflects the values of her times the rational the moderate the measured

26:19

so valued by austin she of course directly contrasts to

26:25

elizabeth in this foils again in that the novel is plotted around

26:30

failed snap judgments elizabeth and darcy's being foremost

26:36

again jane's sidekick is presented as concrete rather than imaginative

26:42

she is gently teased in this conversation by elizabeth because jane simply cannot think badly of people she

26:49

can't make that leap in our next quotation we're a lot

26:56

further along in the book and it's darcy writing to elizabeth about

27:02

why he chose to discourage

27:08

he says her looks okay her looks and manners were open cheerful and engaging

27:13

as ever but without any symptom of peculiar regard particular affection

27:20

he has made a fatal misreading of jane's feelings for beaming

27:25

and here we can see how the sidekick's seemingly undramatic qualities once again in fact generate

27:32

drama jane's very serenity her temperate manner

27:37

mean that her feelings are utterly misinterpreted to her own very great pain and some

27:44

degree of public humiliation and as an additional source of conflict

27:49

between elizabeth and darcy one of elizabeth's central approaches to darcy in the first stormy proposal scene

27:58

is that he has ruined her sister's chances of happiness

28:05

later in the book jane decides to offer and support lizzie in an act of

28:13

advice surely there can be no occasion for exposing him so dreadfully she says on

28:20

being told of mr wickham's vicious character she agrees with elizabeth to that to

28:27

reveal wicked's disreputable past would be cruel

28:32

once again we see the sidekick advising and supporting the protagonist in a way

28:37

that backfires terribly later once again we see the psychic as a

28:44

bridging figure here between the private and the public this is a disastrous decision as wicken

28:51

continues to be seen as a respectable man in the eyes of society lydia jane's younger sister

28:58

may not have have eloped with him were the truth more widely known

29:04

and the family's reputation would not have been risked the sidekick's advice generates once

29:10

again action drama and conflict

29:18

we turn now to jane as a letter writer elizabeth goes on holiday with her aunt

29:24

and uncle to derbyshire leaving jane at the family home jane then writes to elizabeth with the

29:31

dreadful news of the lydia's elopement to wicken and as we discovered

29:36

the letter was miss sent elsewhere as jane have written the direction remarkably ill

29:42

presuming the distress of the circumstances there are two key points here

29:49

firstly jane's letter to elizabeth does not reach derbyshire because of this badly written address

29:55

which allows for a vital time lapse in which elizabeth and darcy can get to

30:02

know one another better and elizabeth can become attached to him

30:08

the side click here is being used to generate plot this late letter

30:13

allows for that hiatus secondly jane like benvolio enables

30:20

narrative her letters tell the story of lydia's elopement

30:26

driving the plot forward her function is effectively that of the author

30:37

we can argue that jane bennett also is to be celebrated as a significant sidekick

30:43

she reflects the contemporary values or austin's values of rationality and

30:48

moderation she shares the protagonist's confidence role

30:54

with the reader she has both similitude to the protagonist in character and

31:01

circumstances and is also elizabeth's foil

31:06

her virtues create drama just as benvolio's rational peacemaking

31:12

responses generated drama james tranquil serene calm manner

31:20

means darcy misreads her hopelessness and her advice generates action and

31:26

conflict within the text she supplies narrative and pace through

31:32

her letters and drives the plot along in her mistake over protecting wiccan and

31:37

the lateness of the letters to derbyshire and she disappears

31:42

and this is essential to darcy and elizabeth's relationship

31:48

because this is comedy rather than tragedy she returns the happy ending

31:55

but also like mongolia she must vanish in order to create space

32:01

for protagonists to work out their own destiny independently elizabeth has to come to a new place of

32:08

understanding with darcy unlike james at times all-too-public

32:14

relationship with bingley elizabeth and darcy's is a much more private one

32:19

shared with the reader and largely privately worked out

32:26

on to our final psychic john watson and it's worth perhaps um

32:33

just noting here that i think and these images of watson are

32:39

quite revealing in showing just some of the many interpretations of his character

32:44

also have a look at how much weaponry he's carrying we'll go on to that in a minute

32:51

the comment i propose to offer about john watson must of its nature be more generalized

32:58

benvolio and jane bennett belong to single texts john watson belongs to a massive body of

33:05

work spanning 50 years i know there is always at least one conan doyle scholar in any large

33:12

gatherings so all suggestions about him are very welcome

33:19

let's have a think first of all though again about context

33:25

and the late 19th century early 20th century male sidekick

33:31

can i first of all draw your attention to an interesting theory put forward by joseph kestner in his 1997 study

33:40

sherlock's men masculinity conan doyle and cultural history

33:46

in this kessner outlines the various models of masculinity being scrutinized and

33:52

validated during this long period carlisle on great men the rise of muscular christianity

34:00

and in the early 20th century the qualities outlined by bathing power

34:07

suggests that holmes and watson embody two masculine types

34:13

that homes is an all emergent masculinity this is very much focused on

34:18

an all-male social circle is bohemian is narcissistic

34:24

egotistical heroic and rationalist

34:29

watson kessner suggests embodies a much more heterosexual domesticity as part of his masculinity

34:37

his conscientious earnest and emblematic british campaigner remember watson has fought as

34:44

medical offered service as a medical doctor and empire he's a much more recognizable victorian

34:51

male to our stereotype view if you like douglas carr

34:57

and to this representation of the much more sturdily victorian watson

35:04

in also making the point that holmes represents a type a new type of figure

35:10

in the being a specialist rather than a generalist

35:15

who has gone beyond the ordinary and can't suggest that conan doyle

35:22

associates the virtues of the ordinary with the traditions and institutions of

35:27

the nation's culture more of this as we get

35:33

so john watson a very familiar character um

35:39

but let's very quickly remind ourselves

35:44

he's a medical doctor he's a veteran of military service who has been rooted in action and he has no immediate family in

35:51

england he's introduced to sherlock holmes as we

35:56

all know with whom he shares a flat in baker street and becomes holmes's supporter and closest friend

36:04

angered by the public lack of acknowledgement of holmes's skills and service watson begins

36:10

writing accounts of holmes's cases

36:16

notice again that in his decision to start writing the home stories

36:21

watson is once more a provider of narrative in the authorial role just like jane

36:28

bennett and is a bridging figure between the public and the private the protagonist

36:34

and society homes and watson then

36:40

they are both modern and traditional figures and they are seemingly foils

36:45

but is it that straightforward let's consider some key quotations

36:54

watson is described as the one fixed point in a changing age

36:59

by homes he represents his times stability

37:05

tradition he seems in this almost a longed for past ideal

37:10

the date of the story this quotation was taken from 1917

37:15

is significant in the middle of international trauma we could argue that watson could be seen to

37:22

offer the reassurance of continuity and times past

37:28

of himself watson says describing his relationship with holmes i was a whetstone for his mind i

37:36

stimulated him here we see the classic sidekick in

37:41

action the foil the stimulus the advisor watson helps homes in his deductions

37:49

and therefore aids plot as we know frequently watson's advice or

37:55

interpretation of cases is as is so often the way with the psychic flawed

38:01

he reads the concrete rather than making the great feats of deduction at home

38:06

surprise he's effectively there to offer misdirection

38:12

as the real term of events and therefore interest and drama

38:19

home says to watson though and i think this is immensely important you share my love of all that is bizarre

38:27

and outside the conventions and hundred room routine of everyday life

38:33

i think this is an immensely important quotation because it suggests that watson

38:38

whilst to foil to homes is actually a great deal more interesting

38:44

if watson is merely the traditional moderate why does he have such a fascination with

38:50

with crime with the bizarre and the frankly gothic element of a number of these tales

38:57

why is he so drawn to homes watts and seeks adventure and we hear all about it

39:04

how many of the sherlock holmes stories after all are entitled the adventure of

39:12

we actually have more of cicero's similitude here that meets the eye

39:18

and this leads us on to another quotation home says to watson you were born to be

39:24

a man of action when i was seeking out stills of watson

39:29

on the internet i was struck by on just how many of them what is wrestling with

39:34

weaponry guns canes you name it part of that may be a reflection of our

39:40

violent times grand size but the bottom line is that watson is just as we saw

39:46

with benvolio in the opening scene of radio julius a man who can take part and

39:52

does in dynamic action driving thoughts forward and heightening drama

40:00

holmes says rather patching beats watson and looking at our last quotation here

40:05

if i claim full justice for my art it is because it is an impersonal thing a

40:12

thing beyond myself you have degraded what should have been a course of lectures into a series of

40:19

tales here holmes is accusing watson of

40:25

embellishing it's a word he uses a lot and dramatizing his cases

40:31

i would like to suggest it adds an additional literary function to

40:36

watson once again we have the sidekick in an authorial role

40:42

he's the storyteller through this sidekick i would like to suggest conan doyle is able to make

40:49

amused remarks about his own storytelling style his drama his flourishes of style

40:56

overall conan doyle as possible postmodernist i leave it with you

41:03

the key thing here is that we are actually also back with similitude

41:08

for all homes as reproaches you don't have to go far in the text to find homes

41:14

behaving thoroughly dramatically and self-dramatizing

41:21

so let's celebrate watson also as a significant scientist

41:28

he reflects wikidaddy the traditional masculine values of his times he's a bridging figure between the

41:35

public conventional world and homes he takes on an authorial role he

41:41

provides narrative along with the reader he is the protagonist's confidante

41:48

we have both a foil to our protagonist in watson and the ciceronian idea of

41:53

similitude far more than might initially meet the eye and he's a partner in the action of the

41:59

text a dynamic figure

42:04

he's an aide to holmes's powers of deduction often through flawed interpretation or

42:10

advice and therefore moves plot forward i would suggest he's a means to conan

42:16

doyle offering amused knowing and ironic comments on his own storytelling style

42:24

he does not ultimately disappear though there are opportunities to make him do so in heaven those conan doyle tribe

42:33

conan doyle had holmes and watson disappear as you know until they were brought back by public demand

42:41

here watson as a surviving psychic proved useful

42:47

the necessary point of continuity prior to that he had another opportunity

42:53

to disappear he got married that could have been the end of the homes watson stories

43:00

but if watson does not disappear someone else had to and it is of course his wife

43:06

mary mustang dies we have all seen countless cop series or

43:12

buddy series when it is all too horribly apparent that the sidekick's love interest or the protagonist's love

43:18

interest simply cannot be a long-term pass for long-running narrative

43:23

three here is a crowd the domestic will clog the dramatic

43:29

it's the loyalty and dynamics of the central partnership which are paramount and the spousal love interest has to go

43:38

in summary then considering the authorial challenges and questions we asked ourselves at the beginning of this

43:44

lecture what can we say of the psychics purpose

43:50

we can identify that they have a powerful narrator role and they drive the plot

43:57

that they are both the foils of the protagonist and offer similitude providing tension and comedy

44:04

each function foil and similitude reinforcing the other that they are a bridging figure between

44:11

young and old as benvolio was public and private audience and character

44:19

in terms of their drama the dramatic qualities that they seem so much to lack

44:26

i have argued that their very qualities of moderation and restraint

44:31

generate drama whether it is jane bennett's serene countenance that means that she

44:37

is so utterly misinterpreted by darcy whether it's benvolio arguing for a straight between battling capulets or

44:44

montagues they are advisor figures and they create conflict and dramatic

44:50

irony through advice being flawed or ignored and they are sympathetic figures

44:56

both in their sympathies the protagonist and also to the audience or the readers

45:04

the contemporary audience they reflect their times and society to all of us

45:10

they can reflect our

45:16

dilemmas and about the disappearance i would suggest that a disappearance has

45:24

to happen because a protagonist has to be isolated at some point they have to work out

45:30

their own realization a sidekick cannot provide solutions to

45:36

plot central problems otherwise that's the end of the story in tragedy they must not provide

45:43

solutions they must give the protagonist scope

45:49

for greater agency and to do that they have to disappear

45:57

thank you very much everyone for your kind attention i'll stop sharing now

46:07

thanks very much for that claire you want to take your screen off that's great um

46:12

that was a reliable opener i think um and a great insight into into some of

46:17

the characters which are often overlooked really aren't they um so what i'll do is we've got a few

46:24

questions here now i'm just going to scroll through them so everybody keep popping your questions in

46:30

um now we have one question this is from this is when this is about benvolio

46:36

um when you were talking about um the disappear his disappearance

46:44

and christine woodard is asking shirley benvolio's role is replaced by

46:49

father lawrence in the latter part of the play what are your thoughts on that

46:54

i agree but i think i would add to that i think that's absolutely right father lawrence does take over as as the bad

47:01

advisor if you like or the sidekick figure but we need to remember that romeo and juliet is about

47:07

the young being let down by the old that is one of the key themes in the text

47:13

and i think with the disappearance of benvolio romeo's tragedy is heightened because he

47:19

is thrown onto a group of people who are already

47:24

um failing the young in the play and so yes benvolio has taken over

47:31

but i think there is a suggestion there i would suggest if you like that

47:37

father lauren fry lawrence is an older counsellor figure

47:44

who does not have the similitude that benvolio has there isn't the similarity of a birth

47:51

there isn't similarity of age and age is a driving factor

47:56

and the failure of youth by age in this story okay thanks claire i hope that answers

48:02

your question christine now we've had quite a bit of chat going on um in the chat about the disappearance of psychics

48:10

and why that why that happens um i'll just read out a couple of comments

48:16

to you and then maybe you can give us your thoughts um this is one from patrick and he's

48:21

saying maybe making the sidekick disappear is a bit like taking the stabilizer wheels from a child's bicycle

48:26

something new might happen um and also from um allison warren

48:32

interesting one here actually and she's saying the disappear disappearance is often to allow the

48:38

central figure to make new connections and the growth of the character is done so the writer can dispose of them but

48:45

what she then goes on to say is watson doesn't follow this pattern as homes has a series of adventures rather

48:51

than a developmental journey yeah absolutely no i think that's absolutely

48:56

right um it's interesting i think that that conan conundor did really want to get rid of

49:02

these characters all together he really wanted to sign them all off and i think your dad writes that um

49:09

you've got a different narrative arc going on here you've got an art that actually lasted 50 years um these

49:16

stories overall so yeah there is a very very different um developmental face

49:22

it's actually interesting um plotting how watson

49:28

and holmes holmes's descriptions of watson shift um it's it's the subject matter for no

49:35

doubt countless phds but we start with homes rebuking watson

49:40

for um embellishing and not being objective enough and by the

49:46

end of that great narrative arc holmes is saying to watson you are my trusted biographer

49:53

um you know so there is a definite shift in ground in terms of the narrative and in terms

49:59

of how holmes reacts to the narrative um and perhaps how conan doyle is

50:05

commenting on his own narrative okay brilliant i hope that that helps um

50:11

all of you that we're we're talking there about the uh disappearance of characters now there's another one here

50:17

now let me just find i'm scrolling up and down here and this is from em blake sorry i don't

50:24

know what your first name is um do you regard these psychics

50:29

are entirely deliberately crafted by the authors or they are they at least partly

50:34

crafted by the story as it unfolds perhaps almost by itself in the author's mind

50:40

there are authors that seem to say that the stories come rather than being thought up

50:47

it's really hard to know how self-consciously any author writes

50:52

um it that that's never an easy one to pin down unless you've got the author firmly in an interview and they're

50:58

sitting there saying tell us everything about how this move we can't forget that um

51:04

there will be very practical issues as to why a character is put into play and removed from it

51:11

benvolio is in there as i said to generate narrative there will be a very practical reason

51:16

why he will have been taken out of that play that i can guess up with shakespeare was that we need the actor

51:22

for later shakespeare will have only had so many actors frankly ben voglio might have

51:28

been needed to be the apothecary later on so there's often very um practical

51:33

reasons why a character's put in and taken out from a story

51:38

um i do think a lot of it also there's also i think a very strong

51:44

driving narrative across literature from classical times which is the balance of the moderate versus the

51:52

passionate in a way what we're talking about with the psychics is the moderate man or woman

51:58

versus the passionate man or woman and because passion in the end is

52:03

excitingly uncontrolled um that's who we're going to stick with and our protagonist is going to be the

52:09

much more emotionally driven figure overall on that but there's practicalities in there

52:14

and there's there's certain just great themes that you will see coming through and reason and passion is one of them

52:22

great okay we're coming back to benvolio again and it's a question from eileen watts

52:28

she's saying regarding benvolio would a true confidant report back to the parents

52:33

well there's a question here's a question yeah and that's possibly why he has to disappear

52:39

because in the end he can't keep on reporting back to um thought

52:46

lord and lady montague about the state of romeo's mind um absolutely right

52:52

um i think i guess i would like i would not like i'm sure

52:57

our questioner is not presenting ben polio as a telltale he's one of those most unfortunate

53:02

figures his maturity means he's a go-between and therefore he has a rough time of it um he's even actually killed off in one

53:09

of the bad quarters um you know benvolio gets killed too because they

53:14

they feel they've got to get rid of it um but yeah i i think

53:22

he that the confidance in the end can only go so far the ultimate confidence the

53:28

protagonist has got to be the regional of the audience we've got to be the one most intimately in on it that's what's

53:34

going to make the drama and keep the interest so at some point the confidant has to fail or move or fall back

53:41

interesting um got a question here from jane liddell do you think that cassandra austin was a

53:48

significant sidekick for her sister and perhaps a good model for jane bennett

53:55

quite possibly so um the whole question of sisterhood

54:00

is is absolutely up for grabs here that it's highly possible i mean because

54:06

sandra has been very much represented but of course haha so many of the austin letters were

54:12

destroyed they disappeared which is another yeah the disappearing source is another interesting one in this it's

54:19

entirely possible it's interesting that what you get with chamber venice elizabeth bennett it's a

54:25

forerunner really it's the great victorian novel's emphasis on sisterhood

54:31

and sisterhood standing in his friendship and you see this in a lot of victorian literature and i i turn over

54:36

in my mind whether austin's actually offering us a forerunner of that in jane bennett

54:42

one of the interesting things that's made about points that's made about victorian sisterhood

54:47

is that it's so often a replacement for family inadequacy now that is emphatically the

54:53

case with jane bennett and with elizabeth bennett their parents are hopeless

55:00

they're just hopeless and it's interesting how many hopeless parents we've got running alongside these sidekicks um in that

55:07

you know mr bennett's for all he's all very witty and he makes his last is is totally irresponsible and mrs bennis

55:15

though financially much more on the ball about her daughters is

55:20

nervous and foolish and jane and elizabeth are therefore throwing back on each other

55:27

i don't think that bennett the um austin household was anything like as drastic as that i get the impression that the

55:33

austin parents were an intelligence and an interested marriage but it it's just

55:38

an interesting point and it may well be it may well be that cassandra might have been the model

55:44

for um the two sisters there yeah okay

55:49

and i hope that answers your question jen um another question here from sylvia chubbs this is an interesting one is it

55:56

unusual to have a dual sidekick so the example she gives is ron and hermione

56:04

i mean i have yet to really come across a solid dual sidekick outside ron and

56:09

hermione i'm delighted to receive suggestions on this and i have been starting to toy with that one a bit um

56:17

it offers both another's transfer narrative let's stick with ron and hermione for a minute

56:23

you've got two strands of narrative which is exciting and interesting what's going on with ron what's going on with

56:28

hermione that enriches the text you've got two opportunities for harry to confide that enriches the text

56:36

um it got the tensions between the two sidekicks of course um

56:43

and to the narrative and the story how much ron and hermione are of course

56:49

um [Music] not very similar people themselves how much we've got ciceronian similitude

56:56

here is an interesting one because how similar are they to harry how similar

57:01

are they to each other not particularly i'm now going to outrage all here and so

57:07

i never know what hermione sees in wrong but you know that you know you can all throw rocks at me later about this if

57:12

you like i i'm willing to be challenged um so i'm that's the best i can do with

57:18

that answer i'm afraid is fascinating all sorts of opportunities emerging from

57:23

the dual side click but in the end our protagonist i suspect still always has

57:28

to go to life there comes a point where he's just got certain himself

57:34

excellent okay i hope that answers your question sylvia now we're at six o'clock now but i think

57:39

we've probably got time for another couple of quick ones um now we've got a question here from

57:45

andrew cole he says do you think sidekicks operate throughout literature or are they more

57:50

prevalent at certain points in time i would i would need to research that

57:56

one is the very unhelpful answer i'm sorry um

58:02

they do seem quite constant the sidekicks seem to be the readers the reading public sidekick as well but i i

58:08

would really want to have a look at that before i answer that okay okay right

58:15

let's have a look and we got another one here

58:22

right here is an interesting one again this is from allison warren interesting questions allison um

58:28

she's saying is the psychic and drama sometimes the playwright's opportunity to allow the central character express

58:35

his or her thoughts feelings out loud like horatio yes absolutely emphatically

58:41

so someone has a critic has said of horatio he is basically the audience on

58:47

stage you know we absolutely have to have that confidence

58:52

um for the protagonists to make their feelings

58:59

the protagonists cannot do soliloquies the whole time they just can't not even in shakespeare we have to have a human

59:06

interaction we have to have um

59:11

a human response we need to see ourselves mirrored on stage

59:16

part of art and artifacts is an act of recognition and i think that's part of what sidekick

59:22

is doing some of us will have an actual recognition going on more for the protagonists others will have it more

59:27

going on to the sidekick i always line up with the psychic i very much feel that's my role in life um i'm not full

59:34

of heroic greatness at all um but i think yes they are they are us

59:40

in so many ways and they enable they're an enormously enabling figure

59:47

um i think and that's part of what makes him so fascinating and so enormously

59:52

important i think overall one of the interesting things about horatio is of course he's another

59:58

surviving psychic i would love to have spent time on surviving sidekicks but it's outside the remit of this

1:00:05

this lecture but um [Music] one of the interesting points it's made about surviving sidekicks is that they

1:00:11

they have to bear witness they are the person left on stage in the

1:00:17

case of horatio who had to bear testimony when people are saying what happened afterwards and bearing witness

1:00:24

we've seen going on throughout our text you know poor old benvolio who

1:00:29

began this bloody prey you know come on you you're the spokesperson

1:00:35

and that's true surviving sidekicks too they are flame bearers they're they are they carry forward the narrative they

1:00:41

offered the explanations afterwards brilliant well i think we'll need to

1:00:47

leave it there um claire and i think we got through most of our questions i think but we'll double check that afterwards

1:00:54

any that we have missed folks we will look at them afterwards um so thank you very much for that that was

1:01:00

really really fascinating and i think everybody else feels too with some of the comments that are coming through so

1:01:05

thanks very much for that now i'm just going to stop recording now thank you very much for having me

1:01:11

you're very welcome

0:00

button now so we're recording now and i think karen without any further

0:05

ado it's over to you for some nice festive crafts thanks fiona thank you i can't believe

0:11

it was august it seems like it was just a couple of weeks ago when i was here so thank you for inviting me back it's

0:17

lovely to see everybody um yeah and i still get comments on people saying the

0:22

recipe was really good for the scone so hopefully you know i've inspired some some bakers out there to have it to have

0:28

a go and equally today as well getting into the to the christmas spirit if you

0:34

haven't already and we'll we'll have a go at making some little decorations

0:39

either for the tree for you know the house or if you want to gift them they're really nice as little presents

0:46

as well so hopefully we'll we'll we'll get some get some nice makes made today um nice a

0:52

nice evening for the dark nights are setting in and it's getting a bit chilly out there so get the christmas lights on

0:58

and the fire on and and get the wool out and have a have a bit of a crafty hour with it so lovely i'm gonna flip my

1:06

camera over now so you can see what i'm doing and as you understand if you've got any questions pop them in the chat

1:13

and we'll try and answer them the best i can um so let's flip it over

1:19

so shout if you can't see anything um that's how i just reposition the light

1:24

and just so that it can say so this is what we're going to make today hang on i'm just going to change my screen

1:32

um that's better hang on two minutes

1:39

yep that's better just so that everyone can see

1:44

right there we go so if you've seen those um in the little

1:49

handouts that fiona had sent through so we're making little pom-pom hats and you

1:55

can hang you can attach a little bit of thread or a cord and can hang those so

2:00

little bobble hats and also a little bit more technical but not too

2:06

not too difficult um is the macrame christmas tree so this is this is the

2:12

plan you don't have to use green um i've done one in the creamy color

2:17

which is like your typical macrame wool like you get for your um like your plant hangers and

2:24

keychains and things like that so you can do it in any color you want and obviously you can match it to your cut

2:30

your color scheme in the house as well so that would be quite nice so yeah so that's the plan today

2:37

and shift those over out the way and i'll bring in the supply so this is

2:45

my box of tricks so this is all my little scraps of wool and cord and thread and

2:52

bits and pieces that i accumulate over over the years which i'm sure all of you will have

2:57

um it'll either be handed down which is lovely handed down from from the ages you know your mom and your grandma might

3:04

have might have been accumulating lots of lots of scrappy bits of wool and you never check anything out if you're

3:10

like me i always keep even just the small little bits of scraps i'll always keep them because you never know when

3:16

they're going to come in handy so this one is obviously going festive with

3:21

the red um but you can use quite chunky fluffy wool so if you've got anything left over from any projects that you've

3:28

been knitting with and that's perfect obviously the thicker the wool

3:33

the less you'll need because it's a little bit chunkier than something like this which is um which is quite thin

3:41

but equally the work both as well as each other so there's no

3:46

there's no right and there's no wrong you can kind of choose whatever you want to to use and it'll be absolutely

3:52

perfect so i'm going to do another red one just to show you so i'm going to shift all all the wool out the way get

3:58

that out of the way and i'll show you what you're going to need for the start of the session so this is

4:04

going to be our bubble hats

4:09

as well so we need our wool so choose your wool we need a pair of scissors

4:15

we need something to measure so we need a ruler or a tape measure

4:22

um i've got a little measuring board as well so i can use that we also need

4:28

something to work on so our um my preferred one is um a blue roll a

4:35

toilet roll um so you know it's perfect because you're you know you're recycling you know you don't have

4:41

to chuck them away anymore you can you can make your little hats out of them you know so you know it's it's really

4:47

good if you don't if you're not keen on using a toilet roll the inside of a toilet roll then you can use a kitchen

4:54

roll so that's the kitchen roll which is slightly bigger so it'll just give you a little bit of a bigger hat

5:00

um or you can just use a bit of card pop it into a circle

5:06

a little bit of tape or a little bit of glue on just to secure it and it's good to go but it's really good to use up

5:13

anything you're going to took away so really really good to to get that used up

5:20

so we've got a little bit of our um toilet roll holder we've got our

5:26

scissors and we've got our wall this bait is really simple and really

5:32

straightforward and we're just going to cut strips

5:37

so we're just going to take our our piece of yarn and we're going to cut it

5:42

into about 10 inches or 25 centimeters whichever you whichever you work in uh

5:50

whichever whichever whichever measurement you work in so we're just going to cut them

5:56

into ten now i don't think i said how many because it's like how long is a piece of string

6:04

it depends how big your toilet roll is or your kitchen roll holder is um or if

6:10

you're using a bit of card it's totally it's very very different and it also

6:16

depends on how chunky you want it to be if you want it to be quite tight or if you want it to be a little bit looser um

6:23

that's why i didn't put how many so what i tend to do is i tend to cut one for it for my guide

6:30

and then the easiest way to do it for me is to kind of loop them over

6:36

back and forwards along that that example so i'm just going back and

6:42

forwards back and forwards until i get to about 10 or so

6:47

and i'm just going to go all the way back and forwards

6:53

and then i'm going to cut them one more for look

7:00

so we're just going to cut them and then all of these loops i'm going to cut them

7:07

just on that loop so just take your scissors go through

7:13

give them a cut so they're all separate strips

7:20

and in true blue fashion i've done a few earlier as well

7:27

and i've also made a little bit of a start on one so you don't have to see me

7:32

making lots and lots of loops so we've got our

7:38

our piece of of tubing we're going to take each individual strip and we're going to fold it in half

7:45

i'll move these out the way so you can see exactly what i'm doing so we're going to fold it in half like that

7:52

we're going to grab the loopy end so this end and we're going to feed it through

7:58

the middle of our tube so it's like that so you've got a loop on one side you've got

8:05

your ends on another and those two ends are going to go through

8:11

and you're going to pull it tight push them in pull it tight and that's called the

8:17

locks head knot that's what you're aiming for so i'll just so this is it's

8:22

quite a repetitive process this one so once you get the hang of it you can kind of just switch off and keep

8:29

going and going and going so you want through

8:34

so you're working the same way every time so just make sure that your your knots are going to the to the same

8:41

the same edge of your card we've got a quick question here karen go

8:47

for it from annette she's asking i have card how much do i need for my circle oh

8:54

good question um it depends how big you want to go you know i think you know it's it's very

9:00

personal choice um so i'll measure mine and then you can see

9:05

how how you want to how you want to judge it so mine's about four centimeters

9:11

or about an inch and a half and that's the diameter across the circle so

9:17

if that helps what about the depths of the chip what the measurement is that

9:23

the depth of the tube is about an inch or

9:28

two yeah two centimeters yeah so i hope that helps you in it

9:34

but it's you know go just go go for it embrace it [Laughter]

9:41

it's um it's you know once you get once you get one going um you can kind of then you know on a

9:48

roll and you can go a little bit bigger a little bit smaller use up the card that you've got you know it's um it's

9:54

it's very much your personal choice and don't worry if one goes a bit longer

9:59

than the other one so that one's gonna gone long and short if they're even

10:04

brilliant you've got it spot on if they're a little bit long or a little bit short honestly don't worry about it

10:11

it all comes it all comes together so don't stress too much you say so that

10:16

one i haven't quite cut that loop so i'm just going to cut that one and then go around

10:24

so i can see a few crafting along with us tonight so that's lovely hopefully

10:29

and everyone's watching and getting some ideas and getting some inspiration to have a

10:35

goal later because everyone everyone learns a bit differently don't they though you know everyone's got you know

10:41

the preferred way of doing it some people like to to do it as the goal and some people like to watch and then go

10:46

back to it and and do it a little bit later so it's lovely and it's lovely to see so many people i

10:52

think we've got 94 people so that's great we certainly do you know i guess there's a little bit of a kind of trial

10:57

and error with this as well it it totally it really is it really is it's

11:02

you know there's no right and there's no wrong way as long as you get your loops through and you get your get you

11:09

get all of you your nuts at the same point then that's that's the aim of the game on this one

11:16

it definitely is so you just keep going around and around and what i'll do once i've started this

11:22

one up i'll i'll continue on my other one so that you're not sitting watching me

11:28

doing doing all of these all night you'll lose the winter live [Laughter]

11:34

so i've gone about um just over halfway on that one so i'll continue on this one so you can see how

11:40

thick it's starting to build up so you've got you've got quite a quite a chunky kind of niche going on

11:47

so i'll just keep going on this one and then if anyone has any questions and just fire them away

11:53

um and i did want to ask fiona um who has their christmas decorations uh

12:01

well you can see my lights shine my kitchen units here very pretty

12:07

so the lights are on already in fact i never took mine down from last so i just switched them on and off when

12:13

i feel like it when i need to cheer myself up so oh that's cool what about everyone else

12:20

we usually have um we've got a neighbor that lives two doors down and he normally has his annual christmas

12:28

light switch on about the first of december it's the first or second of december but all of

12:34

his all of his children have grown up and all of these grandkids are pretty much grown up they're about 18 or 14 and

12:41

then when they get to that age it's like oh you know they don't really want to know they want to be out with the

12:47

friends and they're not following each other they just want the presents so the christmas switch-on hasn't happened this

12:52

year so it's really sad but we we live um if you if you can't

12:57

tell from my accent i'm from newcastle um and we live um directly on the newcastle airport

13:04

flight path and i always joke that you know it's like the landing lights coming into newcastle airport like they'd get

13:10

confused well it seems to have a kindred spirit

13:15

in sylvia mae who who keeps her lights on all the oh brilliant

13:21

so that's nice i'm not the i'm not the only one you can you can be there together oh

13:26

that's lovely it is it's really nice but it is it's good

13:32

so yeah so keep going all the way around it's really it's it's

13:37

this is a really lovely thing to do um if you're sitting in front of the tv watching a bit of choreo you've got a

13:44

christmas film on and you can just sit there and chill out you don't have to think too much about

13:51

this one it's like a it's you know once you've got the hang of getting those knots in

13:56

you can just go round and round and round until you fill up um your your

14:02

little tube it's it's really lovely the only the only thing i would say if you are doing

14:08

um a pattern so if you wanted to to follow

14:13

see if you wanted to put two or three colors in and you've got a pattern to follow um then some people do get hung

14:19

up that the pattern isn't going quite right so you've got to be careful so you've got that that's probably where

14:24

you've got to pay attention a little bit more so yeah so if you've got like something

14:29

like this one so i've done this one in can you see that one in in in two and three colors

14:36

i like that yeah so you know you've got it you've got to get all of your colors matching up so that's that's the problem

14:42

that's the only downside with that one yeah just another couple of comments coming in current um

14:48

sunday ever since covet mine go up slowly every day from the first of december i used to

14:53

until the 12th i think kofi's done that to everybody hasn't it i think we felt that we need

14:59

you know a little bit of a little bit of choice

15:04

and also from jackie and she had her final wa class today and everyone got their christmas jumpers

15:10

out oh yeah oh that's fab that's really lovely

15:17

i know wait i should have put mine on today shouldn't i well i was thinking that yeah and i've got i've got about two but the

15:25

right at the bottom of the of the jumper pile then i just couldn't have i've kind of

15:31

got my naughty jumper on today so that's that that's close it's close enough for me

15:40

but these are really good to do with the kids as well the kids would love to do these um you know and you know even if they've

15:47

got little dolls um as well you know you can you can make little bubble hats for the dolls and you

15:54

know make them little scarves for the winter so you know the kids can do a little bit of dressing up with the dolls

15:59

so these are lovely they come in useful for quite a few little projects if you're crafty

16:06

so keep going until you get right to the end you can keep it a little bit loose if you want

16:13

or if you're quite happy with how it's looking just give them all a bit of a pull all the way around

16:21

tighten them all up so just give them a bit of a tug until you get to that point there

16:29

so i've got a few scraps left over but we do need we do need a spare one

16:34

so once you get to that point just give it a give it a tug see if it's nice and even and then what we're going to do

16:41

we're going to push all of these through

16:47

so just like that all the way through so they come out the other end and this is what's just going to neaten

16:53

it up and make it look more hat like so it's not straight it's got a bit of

17:00

a bit of something about it so it gives them a good old tug get all of them through

17:07

i did make a fluffy one as well um which is that one like a cream colored one

17:14

and some of the wool is can you say that it's just coming off those little bits just coming off so some of the wool that

17:21

the fluffier wool um you've got to be a little bit more delicate with it so just be careful if it's quite fine and fluffy

17:29

wool and some of it may drop off so just be careful you might want to go a little bit longer with your

17:36

fluffy wall just so that you've got a bit of extra in case you took it a bit too firmly as i have noticed

17:44

the trials and error errors of bubble hat making so took it all through get

17:50

your fingers right in the middle get all of that through make sure all of

17:55

your strands have come out the other end and just

18:00

tease it out get them all straight you want them you want them all kind of even because we're going to gather them

18:07

all up and tie them together so you can see some of them are short some of them are

18:12

really long it really really doesn't matter at all we're going to trim them

18:17

down and neaten them all up some of them don't quite catch either

18:23

don't worry about it it really really doesn't matter so straighten them all up

18:28

play them down if you haven't got a spare one just cut another spare

18:34

piece of wool and then we're going to tie them

18:40

together to bring it in so just catch them bring it in

18:46

flip it over and then do it again give it another knot

18:52

tie it i usually do it three times

18:59

and you know you've got it all secure just like that and it looking very

19:05

scraggly at the minute so we just need to give it a bit of a trim

19:10

and even it all up down

19:20

it's just like giving my husband a haircut when the barbers was closed [Laughter]

19:27

i don't think he's ever forgiven us

19:34

and here's another quick question and karen mm-hmm again from annette and the the will it

19:41

was 10 inches did you say 10 yes 10 inches yeah 10 inches long yeah

19:52

hopefully keeping up with this it's it's quite it's quite a nice thing to do so don't worry if you're not you know

19:57

you're keeping up as long as you you've got the hang of getting those knots in then that's that's that's the starting

20:03

point yeah now we're recording all of this so people can yeah again

20:08

yeah so you can always catch up on a later date but yeah so there we go you know not even half an hour and we've got

20:14

our little bobble hats and how lovely you know just a little bit of another loop through with your

20:20

wool and you can tie a knot in and then you can hang those from the tree in all different colors

20:27

you could add you know a little bit of a light on there as well um you know you can you can you can add them to pretty

20:34

much anything can't you you know you can add them to any any little creations that you're making and little robins and

20:40

things like that you know you've got you've got a perfect little hat to go on um i'll show you

20:47

um i made it i made a smaller one um for him if you can see him so he's

20:52

got his little bobble hat on yeah

20:58

he's needle felters so he just had a little tiny bubble hat on and i just you know you just make that out with a

21:04

smaller bit of card yeah that would be perfect yeah and another comment here annette and it

21:12

and she has little bells which should be just right at the top of the hat

21:17

that would be absolutely perfect and i was looking for my bells um

21:24

last week and i couldn't find them and then i found them and i think i've lost them again

21:30

it does happen though so yeah so yeah perfect a couple of little jingle bells on there that would be really really

21:35

sweet so yeah perfect really simple isn't it really simple honestly you

21:40

can't you just can't get any simpler a little bit of wool a bit of card and it's you know you're

21:46

good to go absolutely yeah get them made definitely right so our next challenge is our trees

21:55

i was going to see a little bit trickier not that much trickier to be fair it's just a different technique so you know

22:01

these are you know these are a little bit bigger as well so you could you know it depends on what size stick you use

22:08

then you could you know you could go to town and make a huge um big display of one um

22:14

the wolves some it depends on what one you use some of the wool is quite flimsy the greens quite flimsy the cream is a

22:22

little bit stronger you can spray it with hairspray and that'll just make it stay pushed as well um or you can coat

22:29

it with a little bit of glue or something like that just to to to make it stand so if you wanted to put that

22:35

somewhere you know proudly in a in a plant pot or you know in some sort of decoration then then you certainly could

22:42

do that um yeah so we'll start with our stick

22:48

so you know cheap as anything free out the woods today perfect

22:55

what else could you use you know other than a sticker of the garden you could use um

23:00

a dowel so if you've got anything like a plastic dowel or something like that you could use a straw

23:06

um you could use um a kebab skewer something like that

23:15

what about lollipop stick with that stick that would work as well yes definitely yes that would be really good

23:22

um you know i've got my um i've got my um cake making head on

23:27

that's why i'm thinking of all of them kebab skewers and wooden dowels

23:35

so yeah definitely but you know like you know especially after the story if anyone's

23:40

been you know affected by the storms over this past week or so you know you've got lots of trees coming down so

23:46

you know you've got you've got lots of branches falling so get it get foraging and you can you can

23:52

definitely get a few little sticks sticks that have fallen down

23:57

all right so we're using oh i'll just show you someone's on the floor so um

24:03

i'm using green macrame cord but you can use string you can use the creamer

24:08

corona code you can get red you can get um or you can get a variety of colors grays blacks everything um something

24:16

that's quite thick but that's got a lot of um threads on it so something that

24:22

you can kind of tease out to make it a bit fluffier that would be perfect if you're using string

24:28

it would definitely work but you just have to do a lot more of the tie-in that's the only downside to this one so

24:35

the thicker the material the better the better it is can you give people a little bit of an

24:41

idea of kind of what what size that stickers that you're using yeah sure um

24:46

so we have um that one is uh what we've got we've got about

24:53

five and a half inches for that one and this one's a little bit longer

24:59

um so this one is about um seven that's seven so yeah so so a

25:06

little bit longer for that one but you can just do little dinky ones give it a trial first see how it goes and then you

25:12

can kind of move on and go for a little bit bit of a bigger one or a longer one

25:18

and so we've got our sticks we've got our cords obviously we need our scissors

25:24

again and i did mention a pencil so a pencil is an option the one thing that i forgot

25:31

so fiona will tell us off for this one i forgot to say i know cello tape so if you have that

25:38

wasn't on the list was it no i know i'm really sorry i just thought about it this afternoon

25:44

and i was like oh it's too late i guess it is something that most people generally have though anyway isn't it

25:49

that's what i thought so i thought it would be you know something that that you would you better rummage in your in your little craft box or your cupboard

25:56

that you wish that that would be easily easily the hand so i apologies for that one so sorry

26:02

um so what we're gonna do we're going to um measure our our cord out again so

26:07

exactly the same as what we did um for the bubble hats and we're going to use

26:13

about so 18 to 20 centimeters or about

26:20

one away so 18 20 centimeters um so about eight inches something like that

26:26

um really roughly like you know i'm saying something like that don't get hung up on you know if it's if it's a

26:32

little bit shorter or a little bit longer um it really really doesn't make

26:37

too much of a difference it'll just it'll just affect kind of the the the way your tree works out so don't get

26:44

hung up too much on it how's everybody doing as anyone

26:50

is everyone okay any bubble hats made yet i was still a work in progress

26:57

i have had one comment from this is getting back to getting into the festive spirit this comment you laugh a little

27:03

bit judith um she has more christmas jumpers than any sane woman needs

27:10

that made me chuckle a little bit judah oh i love it

27:18

i know i am never too many no never ever too many i am a volunteer in a local

27:24

charity shop and the amount of women that come in with their husbands or partners uh who

27:31

who try on a court or a pair of shoes or look at a jump and the husband will go

27:37

have you not got enough jumpers have you not got enough coats and you're like oh you don't even you know you don't say

27:43

that to women you know that's that's that's terrible

27:49

you can never have too many embraces

27:56

right so we're cutting some of our chords you can do a few shorter ones if

28:01

you want because we're going to cut them down so you can do you know go a little bit shorter for the first ones because

28:07

we want it to be that kind of christmas tree shape so we're going for a diagonal so that's the

28:14

that's the aim of this one so let's cut a few more and then we will

28:20

start to build it up just before we start getting to the crux of this one we've got a nice comment

28:26

from carol vincent or idea for the bubble hats yes

28:31

decorate a ping pong ball and attach the hat bit perhaps color it brown make a

28:37

red nose and pipe clean our antlers little reindeer oh that would be fab and

28:43

you know when when she said um ping pong ball those little gnomes you

28:48

know there were the beards the tummy nose oh that would be perfect a little gnome

28:54

with a little hat on that would be brilliant we were um on saturday we were making um

29:02

felted baubles so we're making needle felt with baubles on saturdays so we were making a few different ones we were

29:07

making robins and christmas trees and things like that and we were using um

29:14

indoor snowballs i didn't know there was such a thing

29:19

it's a revelation fiona who knew could you imagine you know like just

29:25

just that that would be your snowman wouldn't it you know a couple of little googly eyes

29:30

on a little bit of something orange for a carrot nose that would be perfect

29:36

wouldn't it yeah oh yep indoor snowballs it's the it's

29:42

the best thing to be fair i don't think you might you might not get any because the class was so busy and everyone had

29:48

them so they're probably sold out everywhere oh

29:54

right so we're doing exactly the same with this one we're starting with our loops so this is

30:00

our starting point for our um akrami christmas tree so we want our our chords

30:06

in loops and we're going to do two together this time so you want two of your chords together and we're going to

30:13

put one underneath like that

30:19

and one over the top on the opposite direction so i'll just put them side by side so you can see what we're going to

30:26

overlap them so one underneath pop your twig on the top one over the top and we're going to

30:33

thread these two through and through that one bring them together

30:42

and pull tight so i'll do that again

30:48

so you're going to start with your loop and we're going to go underneath

30:54

and the other one's going to go over the top you're going to pull those two cords

31:00

through the other two cords are going to go through the other loop

31:05

and it's going to catch that twig right in the center and you're going to pull them up and

31:11

give them a tug together so can you see the knots there

31:16

and they've got both sides so that's that's the plan for this one so i'll keep i'll i'll keep repeating this one i

31:23

thought i'd do all of this one just so that you've got a bit of time to catch up

31:28

and you can see how it comes together because if they are quite quick you don't really need too much

31:33

um if you're using a small a small twig so just keep going and go once you get

31:39

the hang of it just like the bobble hats you can just you can just go on

31:45

autopilot and it comes together so i don't know whether anyone knows

31:51

about mcramie um it's not well it's not christmasy um but

31:57

it's it came everyone kind of thinks mikrami is like a french wish

32:02

so everyone kind of thinks oh it's come from from france but it actually originated in china

32:08

oh mm-hmm so the yeah the chinese started the the kind of

32:13

fashion for for notting things and tying things this way um it came over here

32:19

um and it was really over here was kind of the

32:24

70s when it was very um fashionable for plant hangers and and you know and wall

32:30

hangings and things like that um but it was like the sailors that kind of brought

32:36

some of the techniques over obviously you know they're they're not in there you know their ropes and things on the

32:41

on the boats um and that's where the techniques come from but yeah it's um it was very 70s

32:47

but then it's it's really really fashionable now it's it's really had a revival

32:53

so it's very very on trend at the moment why do you think that is

32:59

you know i think you know it's it's a lovely it's a lovely time now for for people to

33:06

craft and repurpose things and and you know and do things homemade and

33:12

you know and i think that's that's one of the things that's that's kind of

33:17

not not just corvid i think it's just it brought people together hasn't it and

33:22

crafting and making something is quite satisfying as well yeah to say that you've made that is

33:30

really really lovely so yeah so there we go it's coming together yep so all all the nuts are down one side you can mix

33:37

it up if you want and do you know alternative but if it keeps it a bit more secure

33:44

and a bit more uniform if you do it that way but it's you know if it if it goes a bit you know if you if you kind of you

33:51

know go a little bit wrong or you know it doesn't it doesn't matter it's absolutely fine

33:56

so we'll just cut a few more and then we'll do maybe

34:03

another i'll do another one two three four we'll

34:09

do another six and then we'll see where we're at

34:14

i was also um for the christmas bauble course i was

34:19

also researching baubles and where they came from and i don't know whether

34:26

i don't know whether it's a northern thing but um i don't know whether anyone can remember woolworths

34:32

oh yes yeah can you remember woolworth well i mean in you know

34:38

the the memories i've got is going in with me grandma getting the pick and mix

34:43

well you could buy just about anything in there really let's face it it was it was it was one of those shops

34:49

wasn't it that if you needed it then it was there wasn't it yeah yeah um but mr woolworth he

34:57

he was the instigator of baubles

35:02

yeah so he he was the one that and brought them to the masses um and made them you know made them

35:09

widely um you know common and well yeah yeah and

35:14

to everybody so they weren't you know too expensive they weren't you know they were they were relatively cheap he

35:19

brought them over and i don't know how true this is but you know the internet's um you always

35:26

believe everything you read on the internet don't you um he you used to make 25 million

35:34

pounds a year just selling christmas baubles wow i know and and that was like in the you

35:42

know like you know going back you know many many years so that's not like 25 million pound like nowadays so he must

35:48

have been a very very rich man how did it all go strong

35:53

[Laughter] yeah so i was quite surprised

36:00

yeah look interesting facts no

36:05

so right we've got a wee question here from

36:11

karen this is from jane um she's asking where's the best place to source macrame wool from or cord from

36:19

for the best value prices oh yep everyone loves a bargain don't they

36:24

um my my preferred um

36:30

shop but i don't know whether as i say like wool was i don't know whether it's a a local shop or whether it's something

36:36

that everyone has is boys um i don't know whether everyone has a

36:42

boys b-o-y-e-s um that's a that's a really good shop to

36:47

to buy from um they're like like kind of well worth they do lots of different things they've got you know

36:53

haberdashery and um and clothes and you know paint and

36:59

everything and anything um so they're a really good one to buy from if you've if you've got a local one

37:04

hobbycraft usually have a little bit of a selection um that they're quite good

37:10

um but do you know online if you if you if if you you know if you if you if

37:15

you're all right to to buy and sell online then then online this is your way forward um you'll get

37:22

much more choice much more selection you might pay a little bit more for postage and things like that but um

37:29

i i did buy to be fair this green and did come from amazon so because i couldn't find a nice green anywhere so

37:35

this one is from amazon um and obviously if you go if you if you if

37:40

you go through amazon smile and you can you can donate to the wa that way as well so you can choose the wwe magic

37:47

charity so yeah so amazon is a really good good option for you um

37:53

but yeah if you've got a boys boyz is a boys is a lovely shop and don't blame me if you spend a lot of money

37:58

[Laughter] certainly not a name i'm familiar with

38:03

in scotland i don't think we have them up here no do you know um there's a there's there's a few yeah

38:09

there's a there's quite a few up here um but yeah i i can't remember if the if they do kind

38:16

of go all over the uk so yeah right so i'm quite happy with how this

38:21

is looking it's not looking tree like at all so we need to we need to focus and get that

38:28

get that trim down so as i said if you've got a pencil you can use it just as if it's a

38:34

template and just kind of get that line going so we're looking to taper it from the top

38:41

down to the bottom on an angle so it's got that that tree kind of shape so a

38:46

little bit further to the top and then and then spread it out to the bottom would you want to do the same at the

38:52

other side the easiest way to do it so just block your ears for two seconds when i pull a

38:57

little bit of facility off is to just grab a piece of salary

39:02

and to do exactly the same and just go down

39:07

so it's stuck together so if you can see the reflection of the the sellotape there

39:13

just a quick thing here from anne marie able to do just one more of the knots at

39:19

the bottom therefore yeah no problem yep hang on i'll just put another another cord yeah thanks

39:29

right so we've got i'll move that one up and then we're going to do so one loop

39:35

that way and one loop that way so you've got your ends on one side and that side

39:43

so your one of them is going to come under your

39:48

twig or whatever you're using and one of them is going to go over the top

39:54

and we're going to loop those two pieces through that one

40:00

and you're going to loop the two pieces from that one pull them together

40:08

and give them a good tug perfect oh yeah but um

40:14

does that help it's just getting the hang of it it really is it's just getting

40:20

getting used to it yeah it just takes a little bit of time so don't worry if you don't get it

40:25

straight away honestly it does take a little bit of time to to just get the hang of of doing those knots

40:31

yeah once i say in and midi we're recording this if you want to to revisit the recording

40:37

afterwards to refresh your memory you'll be able to do that and you know if you've gotten if you if you want to ask

40:42

any questions or you know if you want to to come back then few and i'll pass them on to us and i can always i can always

40:49

give you a call or guide you through step by step so don't worry

40:55

all right so tapes on and we're just going to go and cut down

41:00

that tape edge so all the way down just follow the tape

41:06

don't worry if you catch it it's totally fine

41:12

on that one so can you see we've just cut that off so it's got that nice angle now

41:19

and now the first bit fine you've now got to do the second

41:25

and let's just straighten that back out again and then we'll put it down

41:35

and then we're going to cut it i always find doing one side is much easier than doing the other side

41:42

so if you're left-handed or right-handed it's easier to do one side and not the

41:48

other side

41:56

sometimes they don't quite catch oh i've got more and sometimes the bubble up as well so just make sure

42:02

you get them all fanned out again and if you've gone a bit wonky give it a bit of a trim

42:11

so we've got our our christmas tree you can leave it like that it looks quite neat or

42:18

if you've got a dog brush so if you if you've got it if you've got pets in the house or a cat um like this is just one

42:25

of the grooming brushes you can buy um that you can you can buy like the

42:31

macrame brushes but they are about three or three or four times the price of a dog

42:36

grooming brush so um if you if you want to and that's fine

42:42

you can just tease it out but they look quite sweet as they are just hold hold them in place

42:50

and just brush them out and as i say if you wanted to put some um glue on or

42:56

hairspray just make them a bit more rigid and then we'll stand up you can do

43:02

it that way as well you've got your tree

43:07

coming out and sometimes when you when you do brush it you've just got to revisit it and just give it a bit more

43:13

of a trim because you're pulling all those stray hairs out

43:18

so you've got your tree oh my god

43:23

i've got a few scraps and then you finish in touch if you have

43:31

got some um because i'm a cake decorator i have um

43:36

some wire so this is just florist wire

43:42

and 24 gauge it comes in loads and loads of different colors this is metallic gold but you can get silvers purples

43:49

blacks greens or reds there's loads and loads of different colors

43:54

um so you can get some metallic wire and we're going to just fashion it into

44:00

a star kind of shape if you can see that it's like a bit of a star just to add a

44:07

little bit more decoration and also it just gives it that opportunity to hang so if you wanted to hang it from

44:14

something then you can just pop a little little hook through it and you can hang it from the star if you wanted to hang it up on the on display on the wall

44:24

let's move all these scraps out of the way not too many downsides with crafting you've got lots of lots of bits i get

44:31

wrong for having too many too many crafts on the ground bits on the floor

44:37

so you just it's really easy to bend the wire and we're just going to shape it

44:43

and it was in a rough start so just back and forwards making v shapes back and forwards i'm not worried about kind of

44:49

you know roughly like where it's going to go um can you say that well enough i'll just see if i've got something

44:56

it's not better so you've got a bit of a contrast so i'm just going to do five kind of v

45:02

shapes one two three four one more

45:08

and then we can start pressing them in so just give them a pinch with your fingers

45:15

into those point pointed bits for your star shape

45:20

all the way around any more questions how is everyone getting on are we all right anyone

45:26

struggling i do have another little question for you sorry i was in mute there um

45:34

elementary mistake um a question from jillian it's kind of taking us back a little stage um

45:41

she's was asking about the width of the cord that you get you can get it in

45:48

three millimeter and four millimeter what is it you're using that one yeah that yeah you can you can

45:53

get it in quite a few different um different sizes that one's a three millimeter that one um i do have some

46:00

thicker this one which is four millimeter let's just grab this one so that one's a

46:07

bit thicker that one's a four millimeter so you can see the difference in thickness

46:12

yeah yeah so one's a bit one's a bit thicker than than the other one um but yeah anything will work so you

46:20

know you can you can use you know pretty much anything um obviously the thinner one any you know if you're using string

46:27

or anything or you can even use the wool that we've used from from the hats you

46:32

can use wool to do it um obviously you're just gonna need a lot more so you know you're just gonna

46:37

you're just gonna notice you know a few more times and use a little bit more cord or a wall um but it will work it'll

46:43

work exactly the same it'll just you know you just take a little bit more more work to do a few more

46:49

few more and another quick question here as well um from jan how do you stop the cord from slipping

46:57

off the top and the bottom of the stick i guess it depends on on what materials you're using doesn't

47:03

it in terms of whether it might slip off or not yeah it does if you're using a stick i try and i try and get the sticks

47:10

with those knots right so they've got those you know the the naturally they've got like a bit of

47:16

a knot on the top and the bottom so i try and get something that's got some sort of stopper on the on the top of the bottom

47:22

but if you've got um if you want them to put like a star on the top then the stars and wrap it around the wire then

47:29

that's gonna um make that make that the stop or if you're wanting to put something on

47:37

the bottom if it's if it's not staying put because they can they can be a bit slippery if they don't if they don't

47:43

want to stay pushed if you just grab another piece of your cord and just tie it into a knot

47:51

and then just make a little ball on the bottom

47:57

and that just acts as a little bit of a barrier to stop it from from from slipping down so you could always just

48:03

add a little bit of a ball um on the bottom and that will just and you could knot it twice or not as you

48:09

know front and back and that will just kind of keep it from from slipping off the bottom

48:15

thanks i know you've got that that's the only problem some of the some of the wool is

48:21

quite is quite slippery so yeah it does it does help to to just give it a little bit of an extra support just in

48:27

case and jillian's saying you could perhaps glue a bead onto the bottom

48:33

you could you really could obviously you could you could you could pop some beads on your cords as well so if you wanted

48:40

to to kind of weave them in um to your center as well you could pop a little bead down down the middle you know just

48:46

dot them in um or if you're using glue to kind of harden up the the wool or the cord you could just pop

48:54

a little bit of that on or you could use edible glitter you know though i'm not edible you know the um

48:59

the the oh what's it called i've got some here um cosmic shimmer glitter glue so

49:07

you just you can glue it and it gives it like a bit of a shimmer so you could do that as well

49:13

um and candle was talking about you could even sort of glue little sequins on oh yes

49:19

definitely i'm loving all these suggestions

49:27

[Music] i can see some some lovely trees happening very very

49:33

soon but these are nice as little gifts as well so if you wanted to add that you

49:39

know if you've got a quite a big present you know you could you could pop that on the the present and you know it's it's

49:46

like a little extra present for them and it just you know fills a bit of a gap book as well so

49:51

and i think you know especially when it's handmade i do i honestly think people really appreciate it when you

49:57

know when it's being handmade and the thoughts gone into it and you've taken your time over it it is it's lovely

50:07

all right so i'm just pinching my star getting in a rough shape four years before we finish

50:14

these hours go so quick fiona don't they i know i know oh years gone quickly

50:21

that's true it really has i know if the time just flies by you know we just need

50:26

to press pause just just just before christmas just to get let everyone get a breath before yeah full of madness

50:33

starts believe it or not everybody this is lecture number 86 by the way wow

50:41

not this year since we started but the start is yeah

50:46

that's that's a lot we've gone through a lot i know you do such a variety of topics

50:53

it's really lovely keep everyone everyone happy

50:59

right we're just going to attach it so i've just left a bit of an end to the wire and we're just going to attach it

51:06

to the end of the stars on the top

51:13

you've got a bit of a star and you've got your tree there you've got your other tree we've got that one

51:20

and then we've got our selection of bubble hats going on as well

51:25

so this one's a little bit bigger so i use the the kitchen roll center for that one

51:31

he's a bit smaller and that's the that's the toilet roll one and then we've got our

51:37

stripy patterned one so just a couple of different colors of wool and that's a really good way to use up any scraps if

51:44

you've got really you know little bits that you're not too sure what to do with make a you know psychedelic one with

51:49

loads and loads of different colors you can you can go to town on that one and then the little fluffy one and just

51:56

as i said with the fluffy wall just make sure you go a little bit longer and just

52:01

in case you've got allow for breakages in case the fluff starts to starts to come away but

52:07

yeah give it give them a go it would be really lovely to see some of the results

52:12

well i think um our annette she now has a little bubble hat so that's for the

52:18

net well done excellent well done i know i know it's a

52:24

it's a lot of pressure i think to do it in an hour so [Laughter]

52:29

when you're not too sure what what's happening or how it's going to work out it's uh it's a lot of pressure so i'm

52:34

pleased you're following along okay so i don't know if anyone has i mean

52:42

we've got about five minutes or so i don't know if anybody else has any other questions

52:48

um well this is from jackie can we see the example in the glass display again please

52:54

snowman snowman yeah yeah that's him so he's needle felted

53:01

um and then he's just got his little bobble hat on there so he is he's not an indoor snowball no

53:07

no he's not no he's he he's just made up a world but yeah you could just use those definitely two of those

53:14

[Laughter] i know they are good fun but yeah have it you

53:20

know lots of lots of inspiration you can you can definitely i could definitely see you know lots of lots of different

53:26

characters getting hats this christmas we're getting a few com few more confirmations in that people now have

53:33

hats so that's one excellent excellent not bad going in

53:38

such a short time so it really isn't you've done absolutely brilliantly i know you're really really good the

53:43

pressure was on tonight so well done [Laughter]

53:50

um what sort of wire was it you were using again for the star and the

53:58

this is this is cake decorating wire so this is the one i use it's just called florist wire

54:03

um it's 24 gauge but you can buy um you can buy it in reels

54:09

as well so you don't have to just buy it in little individual strips but this is what i use just for for cake decorating

54:14

so i don't use a lot and but jewelry wire is really good as well so if you've got any jewelry wire lying around that

54:20

comes in all different colors um so you know just something something quite fine that you can manipulate and bend

54:27

and shape into into your star shape and but you could also weave it into you

54:33

to your christmas trees yeah you could you could you know do a few little weaves in just to give it a bit of a

54:38

glisten so yeah looks like beverly's knocking it out the park she has a hat and a tree oh

54:44

really oh well done not bad at all impressed

54:51

really good i know okay i don't know if anybody else has any last questions before we we start to to

54:58

wrap things up um that was great karen um really love him

55:05

and a really nice thing to do at this time of year isn't it um something great to share with the family

55:10

as well and sustainable exactly lots about sustainability over the last couple of months so

55:17

in particular so um yeah it's fantastic and i hope everybody's feeling feeling

55:22

festive now not too long to go before christmas so no not too long is there a person

55:27

that they can share them fiona can they put them on yeah i don't know if anybody's got got

55:33

some finished articles that we could have a look at um let's see if we can get them on the screen i know it would

55:39

be lovely scroll through i know that's it there's so many people it's like

55:44

right there's k k well done who else have we got

55:52

we've got the heart and the tree that beverly managed fantastic i can see a sue who's got it who's holding his up

55:59

that looks really good soon brilliant

56:04

well it's been a rather productive hour hasn't it it has i know i know it's been really good fun so thank you and

56:10

christina as well i can see a nice little red bubble hat there oh yes i can't hurt yet christina oh fab

56:18

fabulous okay well i think that's probably us for today i am going to stop recording now

56:24

because i think we've got all the important stuff so let me just stop recording

0:00

recording i think so anne i think without further ado um

0:05

it's over to yourself

0:12

i think you're on mutant

0:31

sorry about the spokes we'll be with you shortly

0:47

and i think you've you're on mute i can see that your microphone is muted

0:53

there we go oh yeah that's all right now thanks um i was trying yes sorry about that

0:59

everyone i was trying desperately hard to unmute myself and it didn't seem to want to respond but uh there we go

1:05

anyway we're in business now so um thank you very much for the invitation to uh

1:10

speak to you um i'm going to start sharing my slides now

1:15

um and move that out the way here we are okay right hopefully everyone uh can see

1:22

that okay so as fiona said in the introduction um i'm going to talk to you about some

1:28

perhaps the early ideas people had about the planet mars and about some of the exploration that's

1:35

going on on the red planet at the moment now there's an awful lot going on on

1:40

mars and a lot of um um you know since spacecraft have been

1:45

sent to mars in the 1960s an awful lot has been learned so i'm afraid this is going to be a sort of very cursory uh

1:52

look at this because um i'm trying to condense about 4.6 billion years of mars

1:58

into 15 minutes but i'm going to have a go i always like to challenge me okay

2:04

right so um right okay so um yes the red planet has

2:10

long intrigued observers and there are an awful lot of spacecraft orbiting mars

2:16

at the moment and a number of rovers on the surface of it and there's even a little helicopter which i'll uh tell you

2:24

about later on okay so we've got a nice picture of the the red planet there um and it was really in i suppose the

2:32

once the telescope came along that um interest in mars trying to probe it look

2:37

look uh took off um but um you know i'm sure a lot of people have heard about the canals on

2:42

mars but i'm going to mention those and also mention that um the view we've got

2:48

of mars today is of a completely different world than the ideas that people had in the 19th century

2:56

but let's just have a bit of information about the planet itself okay so you i always like these uh pictures

3:02

of the planets in comparison with the earth so you can clearly see that mars is about half the size of the earth

3:09

um yes it's called the red planet because there's a lot of iron compounds on the um the surface that gives it the

3:15

the ruddy color and on mars we now know that there are giant extinct volcanoes including the

3:22

largest volcano in the solar system the craters dried up seas lakes river beds

3:28

etc there's water ice there as well but is there life well that is the big question and that is the big focus for

3:34

all of the spacecraft exploration that has taken place

3:40

and there's a global view of the um the planet um there

3:45

um you know taken through um a telescope um you've got polar regions um

3:54

there one there and one there and there's some of these other features on mars i will be talking about in due

4:00

course sorry slightly just stuck

4:05

right okay so what about mars well it is one of the planets in our solar system that's visible to the unaided eye so

4:12

it's long been observed by ancient astronomers people look back in the babylonian records the sumerian records

4:18

egyptian records people have been observing mars and of course its red color led to it being named after the

4:24

roman god of war um but following the invention of the telescope um and the telescope uh was

4:32

invented at the beginning of the 17th century um mars was then an obvious

4:37

target but there's a problem and um the problem is that it is only

4:43

about half the size of the earth and it doesn't have any um sort of standout features in a small telescope

4:50

um like you know something like jupiter does with its bands and its moons and saturn does with its rings

4:56

and um you know this is a nice uh image here taken from um either an orbiting

5:02

spacecraft or um a large telescope um but with the rather crude instruments

5:09

that they had at the beginning of the 17th century um they weren't able to pick up on that

5:16

anyway just a bit more information to compare this because i was like facts

5:21

like this we've already said that mars is about half the diameter of the earth but its

5:27

diameter uh just to put this more into context is about the width of the continent of africa

5:32

and its entire surface area is similar to that of all the earth's continents

5:37

combined and another earth moon sorry earth mars and our moon there okay in comparison

5:46

so you can see mars is intermediate really between the earth and our moon

5:52

so again this is what i've just said the land area of the earth is approximately equal to the total surface area of mars

5:59

so continents crushed uh together there um you know perhaps earth

6:04

as it was uh um you know quite a long time ago before the continent started drifting apart but no that's the diagram

6:10

that's been done especially for this and then um again just another fact if you like this sort of thing the land area of

6:17

africa is about the same as the total surface area of the moon

6:23

um the orbit of mars well mars is the fourth planet from the sun so we've got

6:28

the sun in the middle there then mercury venus earth and mars

6:34

and mars on average is about 230

6:40

say million kilometers from the sun about 142 million miles or 1.5

6:46

astronomical units away um i'll say what an astronomical unit is in a minute if you're not uh familiar

6:52

with that unit and it takes like it takes light about 13 minutes to reach mars from the sun

7:01

to get to the earth uh from the sun light takes about eight minutes

7:07

and the astronomical unit that is the mean earth sun distance okay

7:13

so that's approximately 150 million kilometers or 93 million miles so when

7:20

we say something's 1.5 astronomical units away from the sun it means it's 1.5 times the distance of the earth from

7:28

the sun so the astronomical unit is a very convenient unit to measure uh the

7:33

distance of the planets uh right okay so that's the orbit um oh

7:39

missed that one out um the orbit of mars is far more eccentric so less circular

7:46

than that of the earth and when astronomers are talking about the orbit of a planet around the sun

7:52

there are two points in the orbits that they refer to by special names now one when the planet is closest to

7:59

the sun that's perihelion okay and in the case of mars um this is when um at its closest it's

8:06

260 sorry sorry 206 million kilometers

8:12

and so that would be that distance there there's the sun in the middle a very exaggerated diagram i must add

8:18

and then at the far point in its orbit which is called aphelion then um mars is um

8:26

249 million kilometers and mars takes 687 days to complete one orbit of the

8:34

sun now the most favorable time to view what

8:40

we call a superior planet which is a planet which is further from the sun than the earth is

8:46

is when that planet is at opposition okay and opposition is

8:53

is this diagram here there's the sun there's the earth and there's the planet

8:59

so um if you like the sun the earth and the planet are in a straight line

9:04

or another way of thinking about this is that the sun and the planet are opposite each other in the sky as viewed

9:12

from the earth so it's the best time to view that planet because it means the planet will be rising as the sun is

9:18

setting the planet will then um continue its journey across the sky

9:24

over the course of the night and then it will um the planet will set as the sun rises

9:31

again the next morning and these oppositions occur um every 780 days

9:38

and but with mars because its orbit is so eccentric there are some oppositions are far more

9:44

favorable than others if opposition occurs when mars is a perihelion then the earth

9:52

miles distance is roughly about 56 million kilometers but when opposition occurs when mars is

9:59

at this far point in its orbit at aphelion then the distance is nearly doubled so you can see that some

10:06

oppositions are a lot more favorable than others the one in 1877 which i'm going to

10:12

mention again that was very favorable and in more recent years we've had 2003

10:18

and last year in october of last year mars was opposition and it was this

10:23

incredible you know bright red light in the sky it was absolutely amazing and

10:29

i'm sure a lot of people would have seen that and there's some um a photograph that

10:34

was taken of mars with uh in the sky and i got this off a website it's not a

10:39

photograph that i was taken but mars is bright okay

10:44

now i mentioned that um once the telescope had been invented people started to look

10:51

at it look at mars through the telescope but these instruments were very crude

10:59

a case in point is um i think he was an italian astronomer fontana he made a crude

11:05

drawing through his telescope that showed mars with a black spot on it which he called a black pill but

11:10

unfortunately his drawings of venus also showed the same black pill so i think we

11:15

must put that down to a telescope defect but um other observers started seeing

11:22

patches on mars and in 1659 the eminent astronomer and

11:28

physicist dutchman christian huygens are shown here by he was able to measure the rotation

11:35

period of mars as just over 24 hours and this was because he'd seen a feature on

11:41

mars and he got it on these sort of meridian and he measured the time it took for that

11:48

feature to appear in the same place again as view

11:54

that his figure of 24 hours is is pretty good actually um the french italian astronomer

12:00

giovanni cassini some years later also measured the rotation period as 24 hours

12:06

and 40 minutes and that's pretty close to what we recognize today so progress

12:11

was being made and there were others who were involved in this um too long to mention but um one in particular was sir william

12:18

herschel who was born in hanover um that did most of his astronomy in this country

12:24

and um this comes from herschel's uh notebook in 1781 which was actually a very good

12:32

year for herschel because earlier on that year he's actually discovered the planet uranus

12:37

but he was making these drawings of mars and you know this is a hundred years on

12:44

from some of the other observers and his instruments were much better so he was able to make out better um you know

12:51

higher resolution features and he was able to see these dark patches on mars and also white caps at the poles i think

12:57

you can see one in the drawing there and one in the drawing there and you know white caps at the poles that immediately

13:03

led people to the conclusion that these were polar ice caps

13:08

now we're going to sort of jump forward a bit to the 19th century to this man an italian astronomer called giovano

13:15

chaparrelli and um chaparrali was born in 1835 and

13:21

he was an engineering graduate who taught astronomy and maths and um his um

13:28

government in italy they were able to they could afford to send him a ball abroad for training so he went to

13:34

observatories in berlin and russia to learn his craft

13:40

and when he came back to um italy he was appointed the director of the

13:46

milan observatory and he set about kitting this out and he got himself a nice uh telescope there it was the

13:54

breira observatory in milan well this was in the 1870s

13:59

and you may remember that i said a few minutes ago there was a very favorable opposition of mars in that year in 1877

14:07

and so chaparrally decided that he would use this telescope here to view mars

14:13

okay so he um observed mars he was able to map it

14:18

and excuse me he even started to name some of the features after terrestrial lands and

14:25

seas and others were from mythology um now i don't know if how many of you

14:31

have ever looked through a telescope um but you know sometimes you you set it up but the atmosphere is so unsteady you

14:38

just can't get a clear view but then all of a sudden a clear image

14:44

you know just you know just jumps out out at you and that's because you know some unsteadiness in the atmosphere

14:52

has been removed and chaparrally found that with his observations of mars because he said um

14:59

there were moments of absolute atmospheric calm it seemed as if a veil were removed from the surface of the

15:04

planet which appeared like a complex embroidery of many colours and this enabled him to see what he

15:11

thought was fine detail linear features across the surface of mars which he called a canali i'm not

15:18

sure if that's the correct italian pronunciation but that's what i'm going to stick with okay now i'll show you

15:24

some pictures of these in a minute but um canali in italian means channels

15:30

or canals it can mean but chaparelli was referring to natural features on the surface of mars

15:38

and um but when um his work uh was translated into english when news of

15:43

this came into english um the word canal was adopted in english and of course

15:48

that's got you know different connotations hasn't it a canal is necessarily an artificial um

15:55

construction so this was one of his

16:02

okay um you can see he got the mahrez australia the southern sea and the

16:08

various other bays and things like that so he mapped um these

16:13

um you know which looks you know quite a good map but as we'll see in a minute it um very few of his features actually

16:19

bear any relation to features that we know are on mars today so that was his opposition map

16:25

and um that's more like a globe map and i think you can see on these in

16:31

particular these linear features that um

16:37

you know stretched for well what seems to be quite um you know substantial distances across the uh that

16:44

the planet on both sides so what were these well as i said chaparrali thought they

16:50

were some sort of natural feature and there's another page of from his

16:57

observing uh notebook so you know his drawings there and his

17:04

uh his notes now this is where another very famous

17:09

person in the history of mars um comes in and this is percival lowell

17:14

and uh there's a picture of him there he was born in to a family in boston in

17:20

massachusetts and his family were extremely wealthy and influential

17:26

his um grandfather on his mother's side had been um a sort of ambassador to this

17:33

country um his father went on to become president of harvard university his sister was a very famous uh poet

17:41

um but percival lowell himself was actually a highly intelligent man and

17:46

you know if he wanted to do something he'd got the money to be able to do this and he'd got a very strong personality

17:53

someone wrote to him once it was if one had suddenly been deposited in a powerful magnetic field

18:01

now the lowells lived in a house called seven elves in boston seven elves because there were seven of them uh

18:07

living in the house and um young percival had a telescope on the roof because he was interested in

18:14

astronomy from a very early age he graduated from harvard in mathematics

18:21

i believe in 1876 and then went on a grand tour of europe

18:26

he worked in the family business for a while um but as well as interesting his interest in astronomy he suddenly became

18:32

interested in the far east and between 1893 and 1903 he did spend

18:38

quite a bit of time there and in japan and korea and he wanted to

18:44

try and preserve japanese culture in the face of what he regarded as the sort of rapid modernization that was going on

18:51

and it was during one of his this hymn there with them uh in

18:56

uh one of his journeys to the uh the far east okay now it was while he was in the far east

19:04

that his astronomy um his interest in astronomy was rekindled

19:09

because he started to read about the work of chaparrali and by the time he'd got sort of wind of

19:16

all this um the 1895 opposition was approaching and this is mentioned in a

19:21

book of his uh 1895 opposition and he wrote hurry in the margin because he

19:26

knew he had to get back to the states and try and observe this he was in correspondence with um an

19:33

astronomer called william pickering um in boston and pickering sent one of his

19:39

assistants called andrew ellicott douglas to arizona with one of lowell's

19:45

telescopes the idea being that um douglas would try and find a good observing spot on which lowell may

19:52

perhaps you know build an observatory and view mars so he wanted to test what astronomers called the seeing of various locations

20:01

and andrew ellicott douglas himself is interesting because he um is actually

20:06

credited with founding the science of dendrochronology tree rings okay

20:12

now eventually um douglas chose a site near flagstaff

20:18

and staff were hired buildings were put up some of the finest telescopes um

20:24

uh were built there there was a an american telescope maker called alvin clark and his son they built really fine

20:31

telescopes and lowell could afford them and um they actually called the hill

20:37

that they set the observatory up on uh the mars hill and nowadays it is the

20:42

site of the lowell observatory okay now lowell's aims were he wanted to

20:50

study the solar system he said there's strong reason to believe that we are on the eve of pretty definite discovery in

20:56

the matter and he was of course referring to mars because with the canali on mars

21:04

lowell built up a whole industry around this

21:10

because he said speculation has been singularly fruitful as to what these markings on our next to nearest neighbor

21:16

in space may mean each astronomer holds a different pet theory on the subject and poo poos those of all the others

21:23

which is very true nevertheless the most sick the most self-evident

21:28

explanation from the markings themselves is probably the true one namely that in them we are looking upon

21:34

the result of the work of some sort of intelligent beings the amazing blue network on mars hints

21:41

that one planet besides our own is actively inhabited now

21:46

so what lowell thought was that these um lines that

21:52

appeared to crisscross the planet was actually a system of canals and he

21:58

said that they were built by an intelligent civilization maybe a dying intelligence civilization

22:07

because they bring water from the polar ice caps which he believed to

22:14

be frozen water to the arid central regions of mars so you can see these

22:19

were crossing there are places on this uh maybe perhaps here where you know lots of canals meet

22:25

and you know he regarded that as being some sort of oasis um now if you know when when you start

22:32

to sort of consider this and um we know they're not canals of course but um some of these would have to be

22:38

incredibly uh long but um anyway that's what his idea was

22:43

and lowell went round giving lots and lots of lectures about this he wrote books about this

22:49

um these are some of his drawings okay so these look like little oasis

22:56

there and in some places he could um he saw what he described as gemination

23:01

where you had um two canals going between two of these um oases i suppose

23:07

an up and a down or something like that i don't know but they were the sort of drawings that he was uh coming up with

23:13

and there's a lowell again himself very you know dedicated man very driven

23:19

man and in fact with the round of um lectures that he was doing and the books

23:25

he was writing his very punishing um schedule um he did actually have a nervous uh breakdown

23:31

there's a color drawing that he did so you can see there the ready color of the background and these are so-called dark

23:37

areas on mars you know to him they took on a sort of greenish tinge

23:42

and there's one of his famous books mars as the abode of life if ever you see one of those in a

23:48

secondhand bookshop pick it up okay and um excuse me even produced a mars globe

23:54

where you can see the canals there so um

24:00

and now the only trouble was that not everyone could see these canals

24:05

now while chiaparelli had thought he could see the canals he thought lowell had gone a bit

24:11

overboard excuse me he said it is certain that lowell commands superior means to any other

24:19

hitherto employed on mars i.e the quality and the science the telescopes

24:24

he was using but if his perseverance and enthusiasm do not desert him he will make considerable contributions on the

24:31

other hand he needs more experience and must reign in his imagination

24:37

and lowell had other detractors including probably two of the finest observers of the day

24:43

edward emerson barnard um was um you know probably the best american observer of the 19th

24:50

century he was looking at mars with you know some of the best telescopes around he

24:56

couldn't see any canals and this man here um antonia d um a

25:01

french greek astronomer um using again some of the best equipment around of the day and one of the finest observers of

25:08

all time he couldn't see the canals so what was it then well

25:16

um this might not be the best illustration of this but it you know it turns out that it was really some sort

25:22

of optical illusion because i mean if you're looking at that screen at the moment um those um

25:28

you appear to see um some sort of turning going on in those um images

25:34

there but they're not they're perfectly stationary it's your eye playing tricks on you and um some people have even

25:40

suggested that what was happening with lowell's um instrument was that um

25:47

he um he was somehow um seeing the blood vessels at the back of

25:53

his own eye that's one theory um and you can see some parallels there there's some

25:58

someone's eye and these are these are some of the canals that he drew

26:03

but your eye does have um a tendency to it likes to join things together in

26:09

straight lines if you know you're observing on mars you

26:14

can see little faint patches your eye will join them up and you know he was using telescopes with quite high a

26:19

magnification that had been a lot of eye strain so you know it's now recognized that you

26:24

know the canals were an optical illusion but um he certainly had a sense of humor

26:32

because the observatory had a cow named venus so this was venus on mars hill

26:40

um there seemed to be a bit of a breakthrough um in the uh canals

26:45

in the early 20th century excuse me when um

26:51

again caught this man carl lampland who worked for lowell so perhaps he was a bit biased but he thought he'd taken a

26:58

photograph that had shown the canals on mars because previously people had just

27:03

been drawing what they could see and you know drawings can be quite subjective

27:08

um whereas a photograph surely that's far more objective but the general consensus was that these photos did not

27:15

show any canals on mars and thereafter apart from you know people like lowell the canal theory

27:22

seemed to die so there was no civilization on mars and there's uh lowell himself after he

27:30

died is buried at the observatory in um flagstaff this is mausoleum and there's

27:37

a rather nice picture of a comet from some years ago comic hail bop over the observatory but the lowell observatory

27:44

um lower left the money in his will for the upkeep of the observatory

27:50

um and it's still in existence today although i think it gets public funding

27:55

and then there he is there okay so he did have these rather what we would regard nowadays as sort of

28:01

strange ideas about mars but he was genuinely genuinely convinced in what he

28:06

saw and i think his real monument must be the lowell observatory where some

28:13

very spectacular discoveries have been made over the years including in 1930 the planet pluto

28:20

and just so that um this 1893 u.s soap ad

28:26

kirk's american family so mars is peopled and they want the soap so there

28:32

you are you see little trains of soap um setting off from the earth to deliver

28:37

it to the inhabitants of mars okay no doubt they could wash themselves in their canals or something like that

28:45

um oh okay i will just say something about the moons of mars because mars does have two

28:52

uh very small moons only a few miles across and they were also discovered at this very favorable

29:01

1877 opposition by this man asaph hall who was the director of the u.s naval

29:08

observatory so there's hall there now um hall had been using um a

29:14

telescope probably akin to the quality and the size that lowell had been um using

29:20

and um that he he was um he'd been out looking for these you know possible moons

29:27

but night after night it seemed to be cloudy and then he thought he spotted something and then it was cloudy again

29:32

long run of cloudy nights and it got to the stage where he couldn't be bothered to go out and look

29:38

anymore but the next clear night when he decided he wasn't going out his wife

29:43

angeline stickney she said him no no asap get out there and look for those

29:50

moons and he did and he saw them again so you know a bit of uh nagging that she

29:56

did um led to asaph hall discovering the moons of mars and her part in this

30:02

is on one of these moons there's a very large crater called stickney which is named after her

30:09

but what about in more recent times what happened between lowell and space age well observations

30:15

continued people weren't you know perhaps seeing the canals now or at least admitting to

30:21

seeing them um but you know it's well known that mars had these dark patches on that changed over time

30:28

and there was a genuine you know belief perhaps in the um early to mid part of the 20th century

30:36

that these the changes in these dark patterns could in fact perhaps be due to

30:41

seasonal changes in vegetation spreading across the surface of mars

30:47

um and as i said up until about the 1950s i would say that you know that theory was given some sort

30:54

of a credence but we now know that that's not the case um the modern view is based upon

31:01

information gathered by the many spacecraft that have orbited mars now i don't mean you to read this slide at all

31:08

i just put it on for effect so um you can see um that there have been a very large

31:16

number of spacecraft that have orbited mars and some have landed as well so

31:22

mars has been visited many times by us humans and i'll just click through that one and what we found out well we now

31:29

have good information about the atmospheres of the two planets

31:34

we know the earth's atmosphere is mainly nitrogen with oxygen you know about 20 oxygen and then

31:42

trace gases here okay small amounts of these other gases

31:47

um but um including um you know including carbon dioxide is a trace gas

31:54

in the earth's atmosphere um but on mars it is the main gas okay so carbon dioxide makes up about 96

32:03

of the martian atmosphere but the martian atmosphere is a lot thinner than the earth's atmosphere maybe only about

32:10

one percent of the thickness with various other gases which we won't bother with

32:16

and again this is perhaps a more readable um view of the spacecraft that have

32:22

recently been around mars okay or still in operation and in particular

32:31

this one here the exomars trace gas orbiter

32:36

that's detecting um gases in particular methane in the

32:42

martian atmosphere because if we could you know methane in an atmosphere

32:47

might be an indication of biological activity as i said um you know the aim of these

32:54

space missions is to find out if conditions are right now or have ever been right in

32:59

the past for some sort of life to exist on mars so the exomars trace gas orbiter

33:07

is detecting gases including methane in the martian atmosphere and

33:13

the interesting thing is it certainly is you know detecting quantities of it and it does seem to be some sort of seasonal

33:19

variation now it's not necessarily due to biological activity but it could be

33:25

some sort of geochemical release of the gas um

33:30

and the um i mean some of these other is the the mars odyssey the mars express been

33:35

taking some incredible photographs of the martian atmosphere um a little curiosity down here that's

33:43

an american um rover the mars science laboratory um

33:49

you know which is just still trumping across the martian surface so that's just some of them okay

33:55

now one of the features of one of the early features on mars that was identified

34:02

by um all missions that were sent there was um

34:07

this thing here which is a volcano um now the the vertical um

34:13

scale there's a bit exaggerated for various reasons but this is something called olympus mons and this is the

34:19

largest volcano in the solar system you can see the caldera at the top there and it's so large because they've been

34:25

repeated um eruptions over many years there are no plate tectonics on mars

34:31

that's the now olympus moms as i said that previous picture is a bit

34:36

misleading because it makes it look like um there's a big jump up but there's not um the slope of it is extremely shallow

34:44

and you know you could go for a gentle stroll really up to the top of olympus mons and it's so large that from where

34:50

it starts rising above the um the ground so to speak um if you laid it there it would cover most of france

34:58

okay you see the caldera there um how high is it compared with everest

35:04

well olympus mons from the sort of base level on mars is um over um over 21 kilometers high as

35:12

opposed to everest which is um only um it's not even nine kilometers high is it

35:18

from the um i suppose sea level okay and there's another picture of some other martian

35:24

volcanoes where again you can see there have been repeated eruptions all this lovely layering there

35:32

um this feature on mars which again we require space

35:40

this is something called the valleys the valleys marinaris the valley of the

35:45

um the mariners the some of the early spacecraft to um investigate mars

35:50

um it's big sorry that picture there should have been a bit bigger sorry um but you can see that that would fit

35:56

across the continental u.s it's that big um and

36:02

there's a close-up of it now um what's happened this is thought to be some sort of great rift in the martian trust

36:09

that's been caused by um upwelling of magma by some fairly nearby volcanoes

36:17

but once this tear appeared in the martian crust then there are lots of features there that suggest there's been

36:23

running water on mars in the past um the valley's marinara is about 150

36:29

miles wide four miles deep um as opposed to the grand canyon okay

36:35

um that is widest it says 18 and only one mile deep the grand canyon would be

36:41

lost in the valley's marinara you get sand dunes on mars as well

36:46

because although there's only a thin atmosphere um the top of the soil there is is very

36:51

fine um you do get these global um dust storms that cover mars

36:58

uh more than one spacecraft has arrived at mars when the planet has been covered

37:04

with one of these dust storms and they've had to wait for the dust to settle out to see some of the features

37:09

um i've mentioned some of the rovers um that we've been on mars well here were a couple of the sort of fairly early ones

37:16

spirit and opportunity in the um early 2000s

37:21

these rovers equipped with um you know various cameras controlled from earth

37:28

they've got solar panels and initially it was thought that well these might last about three months because all the

37:34

dust that settles out on mars but the thing is on mars you get um dust

37:40

devils if you like little whirling um storms um dust storms wind

37:46

and every so often they come along and they um sweep all the dust away off the

37:52

solar panels so these rovers lasted for many many years as opposed to a few

37:57

months and this is obviously an artist's impression because you can see a meteorite in front of this thing

38:04

um but there one of these rovers did actually find a meteorite on the martian

38:10

surface so it looks like a nicer metal meter right there

38:16

um now the um there's another rover on there at the moment um the mars science laboratory

38:23

curiosity and that is still um um you know sending back a lot of information

38:29

um so where have we landed on mars um

38:35

opportunity was there spirit was there and curiosity is there these sites are

38:41

very carefully chosen because um we're looking at sites where maybe there's evidence for the big water in the past

38:48

because if we're looking for maybe signs of previous life then we need water

38:54

and this particular area jezzaro i'm going to mention that in a moment the

39:00

jezreel crater and this one here oxia planum i'll just say a bit more about

39:05

that towards the end okay um i'll go sorry i'll just go through this because i'm

39:11

just running out of time okay um now um this jezero crater here this is of

39:19

great interest at the moment because the latest in the american or nasa family of

39:25

rovers is currently traveling around jezreel crater

39:30

jezreel crater is about um i think it's about 45 kilometers across in total

39:37

and in the past there's six

39:43

that this crater was filled with water and this is obviously an artist's impression of the crater being filled

39:49

with water and it was filled with water that they believe for quite some um some length of time because if life were to

39:56

arise um it can't just uh arise in a puddle that evaporates overnight you've got to

40:02

have quite substantial quantities of water and it's believed that this crater was fed by

40:08

two rivers which i believe they've given names to and there was also an overflow from the

40:15

crater that might be on another slide okay yeah

40:20

um it's slightly different um but yeah there's the crater

40:26

and can you see here these blue lines here these that one there and that one there were the rivers and they've called

40:32

it the naretta and the sava they've um fed the crater and then there

40:38

was a breach in the uh the wall there um and you've got overflow flooding

40:44

there okay so all the geologists have had a look at this and put this together now the rover

40:51

that's investigating this is called perseverance and again it's got all these uh cameras

40:57

on it that can um um you know take pictures of the the

41:02

surroundings um it's got various um analysis analytical equipment and x-ray

41:08

spectrometer uv spectrometer there's a weather station if you go onto the nasa

41:14

perseverance um website um it'll tell you what the temperature is doing on mars at the moment so it's jam-packed with um

41:21

equipment and this was the first picture that it sent back from mars because it landed on

41:28

mars in february of this year so this is in jezreel uh crater

41:35

now what perseverances also took to mars with it is this little helicopter called

41:40

ingenuity now this is really a prototype to see if the technology will work

41:47

but it's had a number of successful flights and you know the idea well being

41:52

that um if this helicopter can launch

41:57

then um it can you know just fly ahead and see what's ahead of the perseverance

42:02

rover um and you know more if there's a big boulder or something in the way so that's been quite successful and again

42:09

this is an actual picture taken from jezreel crater seemed to be a lot of rocky boulders there

42:15

and you know it's believed there are a lot of clays here as well the clay's water um

42:21

other nations are also investigating mars at the moment and february of this year um

42:28

not only did the nasa's perseverance arrive but um the uae sent an orbiting probe

42:35

called amal or hope there and that's investigating the martian atmosphere

42:41

the chinese also um sent um a

42:46

a probe there uh tan when one and that's orbiting but

42:51

it's also got a rover and the rover landed in may i haven't really heard too much about that but maybe that's because

42:57

i've looked too much okay um and these are pictures of the the moons um phobos and demos the two

43:04

little moons and there's the stickney crater on them phobos there

43:10

now what about future missions sorry and i'm skipping over this now the european

43:15

space agency next year is sending um the exomars rover which has been called

43:22

rosalind franklin that's due to be launched next year and that's going to go to that oxyoxia plarnum site

43:30

but the really one that i'm really looking forward to is the perseverance rover on mars at the moment it's going

43:37

along and it's analyzing um the rocks etcetera in situ but it's also

43:44

putting some rocks in some special canisters and the idea is that in the future there

43:50

will be a sample recovery mission and this is planned and

43:55

if all goes well then the samples from perseverance should be returned to earth in

44:04

the 2013 or 31 like that so in about 10 years time we

44:09

should actually have martian samples here on earth obviously you know they'll take great care over you know

44:16

contamination well they have to do that when they send probes to planets anyway but you know it's all very well having these

44:22

robotic probes but if we could actually get some of the samples ourselves like people did with the apollo samples then

44:28

that should tell us an awful lot but what about mars today well one of the slides i skipped over was um about

44:36

underground lakes in the polar regions because some months ago um there was um

44:43

you know paper that was published to say that underground lakes have been detected and i think you know the

44:48

similar size to some lake windermere but then back in august no

44:54

um you know someone said look you're not finding underground lakes of liquid water in the polar regions someone said

45:01

it was one of the clays that you know this was being detected mars quakes are being detected so that's

45:08

interesting the geologist but we still don't know the ultimate question about whether there's life on

45:13

mars and that of course is to be um continued and that's going to be the subject of all of these probes

45:21

and as for manned missions to mars um well i'm not quite sure what the date is for that now i think the americans are

45:27

concentrating on the moon because they want to get people to the moon in 2024

45:32

2025 now i think it's been put back a year but going to mars is a whole different kettle of fish you can get

45:39

people to the moon and back within a week but to mars you're talking about two or three years um the people would

45:45

be subjected to the sort of radiation and when you get there they'd have to take all their food and fuel and oxygen

45:52

uh with them and water so um it's not going to be an easy

45:59

it um extremely expensive one all right so i've said a bit about mars

46:04

but when can you see mars in the sky well the next opposition remember that's the really favorable time is in a year's

46:11

time actually it's on um december the 8th 2022. now

46:17

don't worry if it's cloudy on the night of december the 8th that's the actual point of opposition when you get this

46:22

exact line up mars is going to be very prominent in your skies for sort of weeks before that date and weeks after

46:30

and round about the opposition time well it's going to be in quite a spectacular

46:36

part of the sky because if you know anything about the um the constellations

46:43

it's going to be um there's the constellation of orion which dominates the winter sky

46:48

and mars will be just above it and interestingly this star here aldebaran also has a ready hue

46:55

so it'd be interesting to compare the colors of mars and aldebaran now unfortunately on the night of opposition

47:02

itself this little blob here means we've got a full moon and that's never the best time to go out and view the planets

47:08

and stars however of course the moon you know not gonna have a full moon every night the moon will still move out of

47:14

the way and you will be able to enjoy mars against this background of uh bright stars

47:21

and i think that's going to be something to look forward

47:27

in next year um so i think that's my last slide um you

47:33

can't see mars very well at the moment and the only planets that are on view at the moment in the evening sky are venus

47:40

and i saw venus tonight and just as i was getting in and jupiter and saturn jupiter is the really bright planet

47:46

that's out there at the moment so and if it does um continue um being clear get

47:52

out there and look at jupiter because i think by the way you might catch venus but it'll be very low

47:58

down okay anyway um i know this is a very quick uh review but i hope i've given you some

48:06

indication of um you know some of the things that have gone on in mars in the past and you might want to go away and

48:12

find out about someone like percival lowell who's a really fascinating person um and also some of these the missions

48:18

that are going on now and um you know perhaps look back at the

48:24

um um you know some of the other early missions to to mars because the

48:29

americans first landed something on mars back in 1976 and um there were hints then that they

48:37

thought they may have detected life but that's always been um refuted

48:42

anyway i think i'll stop there so um thank you very much for your um attention thanks

48:48

thanks very much and that was absolutely fascinating and i can't believe how big olympus man is that's that's mad isn't

48:54

it yeah but uh for a planet that's half the size of ours

48:59

right okay well that was fantastic what we'll do is we have got a couple of questions and i'll keep monitoring the chat so if anybody has any other

49:06

questions keep popping them into the chat and we'll hopefully get to them and you talked quite a lot about um the

49:12

rover perseverance just towards the end of the lecture there obviously i know it's going to be another 10 years or so

49:18

before we might see some samples actually coming back physical samples but do we know if the

49:24

the the rover has actually sent back anything you know any information or data back um that would give us a bit of

49:32

an idea as to whether there might have been any traces of life there well it certainly has been sending quite

49:37

a few spectacular uh images um uh back and um it has got on board

49:44

equipment where bike can analyze the um the rocks um

49:49

i think it's still um you know because jezreel crater is is

49:54

quite large and perseverance um i'm not quite sure how many um you know what sort of distance it can cover in a day

50:01

um um you know it's quite sort of slow uh that it goes around there um you know

50:08

when initially something lands then they're testing out all the systems just to make sure everything works okay and

50:14

as they've been doing with the the helicopter um i'm not quite sure exactly how they've um

50:20

you know how they've got on with them um interpret you know what sort of

50:26

results they're getting back i think if they'd found anything sort of exciting i think we would have heard about it but

50:32

um you know you know as i said i think the excitement will be in in ten years time when um we actually get the samples

50:39

back and the good thing of what nasa does with its samples and it did this with the apollo samples it doesn't sort of

50:46

just distribute all of them um it will hang back with some of the samples because um you know particularly

50:52

in the case of the moon rocks um i know a year or so ago they um

50:58

um they did distribute some more of those samples because people's ideas have changed about um

51:04

um you know the um you know various theories and it may well be that um

51:11

initially you analyze the samples for one element or one compound but 10 or 20 years down the line and

51:18

there's another compound of interest that might prove another theory or disprove another one and if you've

51:23

already handled you know distributed all the samples then tough but they keep it back just um in the um

51:31

light of uh you know further information and further developments okay thanks very much for that and

51:38

another question i hope by the way marina i hope that answered your your question now that was a question from marina burrow

51:44

another question here from elizabeth rollins um she's asking why do you think there has

51:50

been no tectonic activity on mars because you did refer to that a little bit earlier i wonder if elizabeth was on

51:55

our lecture a couple of weeks ago where we were talking about uh plate tectonics on earth um

52:01

but um yeah why do you think there hasn't been any right well um as someone who is um

52:08

um well my background really is in in chemistry with an astronomy as a sort of great interest i realize i might be

52:15

treading on the toes of the geologists here um but um yes so um

52:21

um i think well i mean as i understand it and i may be completely wrong so please um you

52:27

know correct me but um with the sort of plate tectonics you need some sort of like lubricant don't is that right to

52:33

keep the plates moving and on earth we've got water now on mars they did have water at one time um but i think

52:41

that um the water on mars did disappear quite a long time ago

52:47

and um why that happened well there are theories about that as well because um

52:52

at one time mars had a global magnetic field um you know due to its iron core but the

53:00

iron core on mars is a lot smaller than that on the earth and when um the magnetic field

53:06

disappeared the atmosphere um disappeared as well because the sun is

53:11

continually sending out um a stream of ionizing radiation

53:17

and our magnetic field protects us from that and protects our atmosphere but on mars the atmosphere was you know a lot

53:23

of it was just destroyed and once that went then the water that was there and

53:28

the liquid water um would have you know disappeared into space or indeed there is a lot of it

53:34

buried underground but as ice though so my guess is that maybe the water wasn't

53:39

round uh long enough to but again um i'm i stand to be um

53:46

you know corrected on that okay thank you and and another question here this is from

53:53

margaret parsons and um it's a bit of an environmental question here because obviously there's been a lot of talk

53:58

about the environment over the last few weeks with dixon everything else what margaret is asking and i guess it's

54:05

really just asking you your take on this um when there are so many people starving and without anywhere to live not to

54:11

mention carbon footprints should we really be letting people travel to the moon because they can

54:17

afford to well that's quite a big question isn't it well it is yes i know and it's a very you

54:24

know difficult one and i think since um um you know certainly since you know space travel people have been asking

54:30

those questions anyway haven't they about you know when people went to the moon um was it um what was it worth it um

54:39

i i i don't know i suppose that as human beings we are naturally curious

54:45

individuals and um um you know people have always explored so i suppose it is just um

54:52

you know an advancement of that um but i suppose it is you know perhaps um more

54:58

you know perhaps a bit more difficult to um you know maybe justify these days

55:04

because we're more aware of what goes on around us you know when say columbus set off across you know to the uh the

55:11

americas um you know he probably wasn't too aware of um all the things that were going on in

55:17

the uh um the world so um i i don't know i think it's a sort of personal view i suppose

55:23

because i'm i'm interested in it but um um you know certainly any any mission to

55:28

mars is going to be extremely expensive and um i don't know some people say oh you know

55:34

the first person on mars has already been born or there at school but i i do wonder that actually

55:42

i don't know is the answer i'm not i'm not sure it's a bit of a cop-out i'm afraid

55:47

okay um another question here is this from karen and andrew um why do we

55:52

assume that life needs water could martian life forms have evolved without it

55:58

that's a real question that one well yes um i think that you know water is wherever

56:05

we look in um in in the solar system uh we look out in space we can we can see water there i

56:12

mean it is a small molecule it's got in a particularly uh distinctive properties it is a good solvent for um a lot of

56:21

compounds um and you know i think that um

56:26

with some of the other molecules you might be uh talking about um you know small molecules you wouldn't

56:32

quite get those um um all those properties i mean um um

56:38

i don't know yes we we do assume that but as i said i think it is because we do know that um it is everywhere and

56:46

as i said it is such a good um you know solvent so many sort of reactions can take place in the in in

56:52

water and it's um i suppose it is liquid over quite a wide range of temperature as

56:57

well yeah okay right i think we've probably got time for one more question we've got one here

57:04

from sharon um she's asking is there a lot of space tech and debris left behind

57:10

you know we're always sending up all of these these probes and rovers and all sorts of other things satellites all

57:16

over the place well there is a lot of um

57:21

um a lot of them you know satellites have been launched around around the earth and uh you can look up on the

57:28

internet and see um um you know data and images of this and um

57:34

there was something that happened a couple of weeks ago wasn't there where the russians actually you know fired um

57:40

something they tried to um it blew one up down yes that's right and um what happened was um it went into sort of

57:47

quite a few pieces which is probably more dangerous than having uh one big piece

57:52

um when it comes to the other planets themselves um i think i said that everything that's

57:58

sent up into space um you know to go on mars or or wherever yes they do carry out very thorough

58:05

decontamination of it um so um all these you know previous

58:11

rovers on mars um they are just you know essentially there

58:16

um but some of the um probes that have investigated jupiter and saturn

58:24

now them the moons of jupiter and saturn are of great interest because there's a number of them under which it's believed

58:31

that there are liquid water oceans and of course impact goes back to water

58:36

and life doesn't it okay and when these um missions have finished

58:41

around these planets instead of letting them just sort of carry on um

58:47

um orbiting and then the um orbit might decay or something and there might be

58:53

the danger it might crash into one of these moons then they have forced these uh probes to um plunge down into the

59:00

atmosphere of jupiter and the atmosphere of saturn as well so that we're not um

59:05

there's no danger of them contaminating the moons um but you know the equipment that was

59:11

sent to um equipment and the probes that were sent to um the moon and they will still be

59:19

there but it's interesting i believe that on one of the um manned apollo missions

59:24

um they were actually able to walk to a previous american unmanned probe that

59:30

had landed on um the moon and i think they took some samples and they

59:35

discovered that um there were some um i don't find this i find it a bit um

59:42

seems a bit unlikely but i think they actually found that there was still some microbial life on there when they

59:47

brought this back to earth and had to look at it but um no that's a good question because

59:53

um you know wherever we go as humans we seem to litter the place and

59:58

um you know space and um a lot of them you know well say a lot some of the probes up there

1:00:04

like the hubble space telescope probably in about 10 years time that's going to

1:00:10

have to what we call deorbit but that would be a controlled re-entry into the earth's atmosphere

1:00:16

because the success of the hubble space telescope is due to be launched in a couple of weeks time um and then um

1:00:23

hubble will um well i think that they'll just let it carry on until more bits of it break

1:00:28

but yeah there's some big chunks of um um metal up there and you don't just want

1:00:34

them sort of coming down um randomly and quite what they're going to do with

1:00:39

the international space station when that's uh decommissioned um that would be quite a major

1:00:46

exercise in um a controlled re-entry i would have thought um

1:00:52

yeah good for a thought um okay well thanks very much for that i think we'll we'll wrap it up there folks i'm just

1:00:58

going to stop recording um now

0:00

an experiment this evening uh for those of you who've been to our lectures before you you'll know what the sort of traditional

0:06

format is you know people usually talking to slides today we've got a live demonstration uh

0:12

mark mark breen will be cooking a delicious meal for you not for you literally obviously

0:20

but for you to enjoy visually over the next hour or so let me

0:25

introduce mark mark is a creative

0:30

partner at a charity called hubbub uh hubbub are an environmental charity

0:36

uh creative campaigns for greener living is their strap line so that already

0:41

gives you a flavor no pun intended of the kinds of themes that we're going to be dealing with today

0:48

mark has previously worked for for other charities an eco community kitchen called made in

0:55

hackney and a cookery school called at 52 which again is a community cookery school

1:02

and as i say mark now specializes in uh food waste and sustainable diets

1:08

at the charity hubbub and he's a classically trained chef and also a private chef um so very

1:15

experienced uh very very able guy as i know because i've eaten his food um

1:21

so um we're gonna talk for about five or ten minutes just to set the scene a little bit and then we're going

1:27

to let mark loose in his kitchen to give you a practical demonstration and i think the best way of doing this would

1:33

be mark will sort of give you a bit of a commentary as he cooks but feel free to pop

1:39

questions up on the chat and we'll obviously mark will be focusing on the food but i'll try and relay those to

1:44

mark and he can respond as he goes along and then if there's a little bit of time at the end we'll we'll pick up some some

1:50

other questions at the end um so we also thought just to kind of

1:56

set the scene a bit fiona are you okay with the the poll we thought we just want to get a measure of

2:03

your interests and uh you know where you stand on some of the issues around food which will help guide

2:11

uh mark's commentary later on so you're able to pop that up fiona there we go so so if

2:17

you're able to just interact with this poll it's just a quick thing really asking about um how you know and we're

2:24

assuming because you've joined us that you're interested in seasonal food um but do you do you feel you know

2:31

enough about seasonal food and do you know enough about sort of tips for reducing food waste

2:36

hopefully by the end of the hour you will have a few more tips um and mark while the poll is running

2:43

there let's let's go over to you know why is eating seasonal food important

2:48

um well there's there's a few different reasons and if um if i've got my kind of big chef hat on

2:55

i've never worn one of those um i think flavor is is kind of the

3:00

the prime reason um for chefs um i think if we all think back to um

3:08

uh august july august september and we will probably well maybe not all of us

3:13

but most of us probably had a strawberry then um and we think of how that looked um

3:18

and how it tasted um um and

3:23

you know it's absolutely delicious it probably hasn't come that far from where wherever we're living or where

3:29

we're eating and then you go to a strawberry now

3:34

it's a completely different prospect and relatively flavorless um

3:41

it's travelled halfway mark so it's cut across you there's one or two people having a bit trouble hearing i think

3:47

if you could lean into your uh mic that would be good and uh other people if you're able to

3:53

people are viewing if i i've whacked my sound up as high as it would go if you you might want to adjust your sound levels at your end as well

3:59

and we might meet in the middle if we do that but yeah mark if you could linkedin exactly even louder yeah that's

4:06

right that's better already thank you i'm sorry if you know probably a lot of people on the zoom so

4:12

we'll do our absolute best i hope that's okay that's much better than that lovely um and i was just gonna i was

4:19

just saying if you think um to eating a strawberry now or kind of through the winter that's a completely different

4:24

prospect um much less flavor the color is probably not

4:30

quite as ripe looking it's not as red um the strawberries probably traveled from

4:35

halfway across the world um and you know that's just that's just one fruit

4:41

and we can talk about the whole the whole gamut of different fruits and vegetables um so flavors flavors are really really

4:47

important one for us chefs um but then i suppose if i put my environmentalist hat on

4:54

i start to think about where that where that strawberry might have come from um so you know if i went and looked

5:01

in in the supermarket i would definitely be able to buy strawberries at the moment they they grow all year round across the

5:08

world but it will have traveled a long long way and then you start to think of the

5:13

things that have happened to that strawberry to make it possible that you could well here we go anastasia says why would

5:19

you have a buy strawberry in november but people do people do we have ultimate choice to do that um

5:25

and you think of the kind of energy that goes into growing um that strawberry or any other kind of

5:31

seasonal vegetable the um the transport to get it here uh the pesticides that are used to grow

5:37

it at times when it shouldn't be grown it will have to be have to be grown in glass

5:42

um and then you start to extrapolate that across all the different vegetables that we

5:48

and fruits that we now eat as you i'm i'm just gonna minimize the chat a little bit for myself because otherwise

5:54

i'm just gonna end up reading that one which isn't gonna be very helpful for everybody um and we start to think about

5:59

all of those things um and just extrapolate that across the whole range of uh

6:04

you know fruit and vegetables that are nicely packaged up on the supermarket shelves um there's not just the um

6:13