Archive lectures and events

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Well, good evening.

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This put to put people in the mood for a late summer holiday.

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I have, so I hope you managed a holiday of some kind.

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This year. So this is about foreign holidays for the Victorian middle classes, and This is what i'm going to cover.

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I want to say something very, very briefly about the eighteenth century grand tour, because this is going on going abroad on a different scale together.

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But then fine focus on what made it possible for the Victorian middle classes in particular to spend their later time abroad. and I look quite, quite detailed.

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Kind of quite detailed, and look at Thomas Cook, and the development of organized travel in the nineteenth century.

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Say something briefly about Victorian travel companies are the ones and

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Someone advice to travelers going abroad some of which is i'm in the sensible some of which is rather alarming.

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I think, and quite a lot of which is quite amusing.

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So that's the that's the plan Okay, so the eighteenth century grand tour only for the rich.

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Young man from the aristocracy and gentry in particular, to finish their education after university, as you can see, especially Roman and Greek history, language, and literature, and usually chucker, owned by a paid tutor

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or guide to ensure that they did this future, only in Tamil and spending a considerable amount of time abroad 6 months to 2 or 3 years touring maybe visiting relatives friends or people

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who are regarded as mentors living for some time in various places, and the golden age of this was really from the 17 sixties to

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The outbreak of the French Revolution in 1,789

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Preceded by this period of peace and prosperity, which then came to an end, and cause very serious disruption to this sort of travel.

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So. how the Victorian middle class is able to spend more electricity time abroad?

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Well, there are several reasons. One of them is the development of steamships, which were not only faster and more reliable than sale.

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Had other advantages on the first powered crossing of the Atlantic was in 1819

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Only using steam for 80 h of the over 600 h journey.

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That was space of honor. And then the first steamship passenger service, 1838, the British and American Steamship Navigation Company.

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So this is very early into the Victorian period. and

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This was the serious from London to Cork, and then, to New York. and and these things are measured precisely as we'll see, 18 days, 4 h and 22 min, despite running out of coal on the journey, I mean instead of having to burn

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all sorts of wooden fixtures and fittings to keep the steam up.

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Just to give you an idea of how things change to really quite quickly.

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The Great Western in 1838 took over 15 days to cross the Atlantic and average speed of 8.4, one kilometers an hour, and the Britannic by 1875 virtually.

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Half that at length of time, with the speed of 14.5, Hello!

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I know, so I should say, no sorry i'm in decimal mode not far out, and then the Joyce land

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There was less dramatic development, slow but continuing development as a century war on, so that the Deutschland in 1,900 could do the journey.

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And about 5 and a half days I was some technical developments That help I don't want to bother you.

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With a lot of technicality. But this is really quite important.

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The marine compound steam engine, which it was very economical in using the steam twice in each engine cycle saving.

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Oh, anything up to 40% of fuel which is a considerable saving on the amount of call that had to be carried patented in 1854, And it did make possible longer journeys when it was not possible

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to refuel to pull into port and ratio.

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And then, very importantly, the use of steel instead of iron, from 1879 onwards.

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Larger steamships increase in size of tenfold, and the second half of the nineteenth century steel is considerably light of an iron, and that was not made the difference.

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And again in terms of transport as well. The expansion of railway networks within Britain considerable expansion.

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Easier to travel to ports, to embark on the ships and department of railways across us.

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Europe initially with British technology, I'm sure all the nations develop their own.

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Francis Bell, Jim Saxon, New Bavaria, Austria, Hungary, Italy quite late.

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Because there were no there. were separate states and it's so intimidating.

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61 meeting 71 if you count Rome. but

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There was no national network until after 1861, and that was developable with them, security in mind rather than trouble for pleasure.

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In the United States and Canada, as Well, and that's

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The Canadian Pacific Railway in particularly the queen's highway.

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The symbol of imperial pride. built in an astonishingly short period of time, and they started either side of Canada and met in the middle but 18, a She won't completed 1885 and

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that took then a week coast of coast to travel an old red route, as it was referred to from Britain to the Pacific, and also politically very important within Canada physical unification of the different

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provinces. One of the reasons that it was built so quickly is shown in this image.

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The import of Chinese labor to help build the railway with the special of railway networks.

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I love this punch cartoon. It sort of captures the

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The role of the bewildering array of choice that people came to have.

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And so here's this family at the railway station trying to decide where to go.

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The wife is saying, Well, here we are at last, children, luggage, and a whole.

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What is it to be the ryan d or ram skate and There's a wealth of detail in the cartoon which I haven't got time to but you you've got the drift of it

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here's the the the naughty boy climbing his his system probably telling on him, and all the rest of it.

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And the scene of a company bustle while people get their trains to wherever what else do people need for for a holiday as well?

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It's obvious I need you plenty of time to travel we're not talking about rapid journeys, even with improvements in transport.

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They need time to stay to make it worthwhile.

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So you know, Maybe 2 weeks is is round about the minimum, I suppose, and anything up to going all the way around the world which i'll come to later, but they need a certain level of income because they need to pay for the

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transport for the food. The accommodation the local guides which i'll seen as essential, and

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They need to safe destinations. they there's very little in the way of holiday trouble in the United States, for example, until the civil war finished in 1965, and here this image of italian troops raising the flag

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of a united easily, and Venice in 1866 for quite a few years before that. the north of Italy, was in a stage of a people.

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Well, the Italians various italian states spoke for independence.

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I'm. Not sure and That's reflected in that from Thomas Cook trouble in August.

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1866 for ticket. So what? One or 2 months to Paris, Switzerland, Italy in America?

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It sort of gives you an idea of the length of time that was necessary.

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And also advertise is this proposed trip in September of that year to emancipated Venice

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So who was Thomas Corp? and how did his trouble business come about?

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Well, you can see here. He was born in 1,890, in Derbyshire, in Melbourne.

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He was a cabinet maker by profession, so he was quite a skilled notice that.

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And He was a very devout Baptist, and he became a missionary.

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Traveling around from village to village. preachingly

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The Gospel would also be promoting the temples, cause

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He had signed up to this himself, and, in fact, his first excursion.

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You probably know, was from Nester to Lobbra to a temperance meeting in 1,841 on the meddling Counties Railway, which was opened in the previous year.

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And He hired the the trains to go there and back, and they they had a meeting in quite a large park.

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I think and that was that was the beginning that shared the potential.

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I think you recognized the potential so organized discussions Didn't Lester what his main base was the Thomas Cook building in gallatry gate and I don't know if you know last but

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It's not far from the clock tower and there are these freezes showing scenes from the development of this business.

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So the temperance chips to look for the top one with open carriages.

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You can see the Crystal Palace. for the Great Exhibition in 1,850.

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One the boats on the Nile lace in 84 helping to relieve cartoon and the opening of the fourth bridge in 1891, which made the journey to stop very much easier, and quite a lot

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quicker So to give you an idea of how the business grew. let me say I.

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I've mentioned the Yoga exhibition over 160,000 passengers carried over a period.

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It was on for a long while. over 160,000 passengers carried, you know.

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He started his tolls to H. to Scotland in 1846, and they were personally escorted by him.

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A lot of his tours were personally exported by Thomas Cook. the Paris exhibition in 1855.

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That will give you an idea of The room to Paris.

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Hey? How rich antwerp russell's, Colonel the exhibition was at the heart of the tour, But he encompassed quite a lot of other locations as well and his tools

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to front such a in Switzerland. They started in the early 18 sixties, and then he did

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Goes to the U.S.A. after the Civil War ended in 1865, and then the fast Nile cruise after the so is canal in 1869, and also to Egypt and the holy land in the

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Savior from the same year he was very keen on taking people to the holy line because of it's really just significance.

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And that sort of the *s that some idea of his is Nile flotilla with

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I wish I could leave. you took no longer, but very evocatively named ships.

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And there are quite a lot of photographs like this.

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British tourists on a cook's tour in this case at the Pyramids in the late nineteenth century.

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This is from the Thomas cook archive i'm sure you Know that the company of Thomas Cook doesn't exist any longer at but It's Archive has been deposited appropriately.

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I think, in the record office for less to share lessons and it's being cataloged and processed at the moment. and

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Some of these photographs posters, all sorts of things are part of that archive and his first round the world Tour in 1872, 73 again personally conducted by him

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So a few, just a few statistics and locations around 29,000 miles.

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222 jad so it's out about 8 months, I think roughly and for the full trip.

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It wasn't necessary to do the full trip you could join do one or 2 legs as many as you liked, and get get off again.

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But 270 Guinness for a full trip, which was a considerable amount of money at that time.

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As far as I can tell. I tried to work out the route across the Atlantic Price team ship, and then New York to San Francisco by rail steamer to Japan, then to China, but then Singapore, Salon

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and India, and then from Bombay across the Indian Ocean and the Red Sea to Cairo, from where people traveled back to London by ship.

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If they I complete it. the whole tool will last nag of the tool, and there's a brochure cova from the from 1891 with the some images of his tools.

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Around the world. The The company was starting to advertise itself in in biographic ways.

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Then, although by then Thomas Cook himself was, was not playing any part in it.

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A few other examples of fairs in 1872 for shorter trips.

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These are from Darby Dolby, Paris, about 35 shillings.

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So, although it says cheap excursion to the Continent cheapative term, because these are beyond the the reach of working class scholars, certainly.

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Or if you want to go to rotterdam around the back a little bit less. 25 shittings Brussels, and outlook 30 shittings or a secular tour. encompassing go quite a

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lot, so I won't keep reading it too i'm not sure how well you can see if you're on an iphone.

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Maybe, but so the secular tool to Robert Jam, and then returning via all doing it the other way around 79 shittings.

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So what did Thomas Cook? the Napoleon of extension even that was that was not a complementary term.

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It was we've come to the people who objective to what he did very shortly.

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But what did he offer to trouble as well? first of all, safety and security, because he did a score level personally?

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Or he sent a representative of the company. ever at hand to make easy the travelers progress and take care of any problems I've taken these new various

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I've the man from cooks I'm told Curtis a long rifle, speaking with ease every now 11 time language. I scored it us safely through parts of Asia Minor never before visited

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by English women. that was a testimonial, as you can see from the end of the nineteenth century, and unprotected females were chaperoned so well. Men who wanted to travel on their own which would be

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very difficult to know the circumstances. they'd be quite vulnerable, and not necessarily very experienced in traveling abroad.

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So Thomas Cook promised to check our own them if they were unprotected.

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Oops. Sorry i'm too far. confident convenience very important first class establishments according to the other birds and food are acceptable to the thorough roast beef and putting eating englishmen so none

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of this nasty foreign food that people dreaded going abroad.

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Hungry and polymer biscuits for afternoon tea country house, breakfast, and the company arranged for produce grown in Egypt along the river, so that it was fresh newspapers sent out from

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Britain. They were significant out of date by the time they got there, but so we're told from this description.

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Wherever you go, the top of a pyramid or a long, you will see a British are reading a newspaper, and in the Middle East chanted hotels with with the these sorts of comforts taken down and

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transported to the next venue by baggage animals.

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Push up again by sundown so that when people arrived at their next destination they would find their own good napkin from breakfast laid by their dinner place.

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Arrangements of mail to be sent to and collected from tool destiny destinations every day.

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This is such a prompted a result. to picture postcards from the 1890 S.

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Because if male could be collected and sent every day, there was an expectation back in Britain.

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But people would keep writing. So the postcard relief, the burg on the writing most not.

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My experience actually was sending a postcard i've never been able to put on it.

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But so there's a postcard from from the nineteenth century

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And there quite a lot of testimonials in various newspapers.

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Thanking him for in this case this was a tool to Italy, Switzerland!

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A high sense we entertain if you're valuable services as our conductor and you can see the

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The hotels that were selected, the telegraphing ahead.

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The accommodation all of these things found favor with the people traveling within.

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But I say some people disapproved. Charles Leva. No, I is no less 1865, that he was swamping Europe with everything that is low red Bulgar and ridiculous.

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So the less to journal, and they look a bit later in the same year, was wondering why people are inflicted with this mania for perpetual motion, and when told him to say several motives by which people were induced

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to undergo danger, to incur the team, to subject themselves to all sorts of annoyances for the sake of visiting celebrated spots and exploring regions.

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Every mile of which have already been done by tourists it said, Well, it's because they like change they like novelty.

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They want to see new sites and scenes. they want to refresh their hobby and their mind, both of which alright!

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Well works possibly and it went on to say, people who trouble just because it is fashionable.

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Are very stupid, large class, and gaze with indifference upon every beauty about all nature.

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This same vacant look, the same Don list for the same ignorant observation.

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If the British were bad. punch, said the Americans are using worse.

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I don't know if you can see the caption to that call, too, so I will read it to you.

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Overheard at the Louvre American tourist suspiciously.

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Say Guide haven't we seen this room before guide Oh, no, Mr.

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Tourists. Why, wouldn't see here. we want to see everything but we don't want to see anything twice.

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Okay, what motivated him? It was certainly not a desire for profit, because he he barely made any very modest profits.

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And This became a real bone of contention with his son, John Mason called, as we'll see, but she was motivated by a belief that the more people met each other the greater they would on understanding each other and to

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pioneer the way for the golden age when nations should learn more more.

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That's a direct quotation from him it's a very, very noble objective, I think but reflected in. say, some of the testimonials that his tours were helping to break down the

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barriers that separated nations, some nations people from people advancing civilization by teaching the universal brotherhood of man and the universal fatherhood of Good.

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Okay, Cool? Perhaps not what you might associate with the

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A sort of package tool, so that it was said that when he took tourist to Scotland, and they like 1840, or 50, so he did rather press the temples call to the extent that they got rolled the phone up with

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it but some. but that reflects, I think, his own motivation his son, John Mason, Cook.

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Had a much more business like Approach and they they really did form melt about this.

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Eventually Thomas put stop taking that too. Well, quite a long while before he died.

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In 1892 He was practically blind when he died.

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But he didn't approve of this pursuit of profit.

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But John Mason, cook as you can see here, organized Kaiser Wilhelm.

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The second 6 week, Middle East, and tour at the end of the century.

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A monumental undertaking in terms of their animals.

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The carriages and the parts for which he was awarded.

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The Order of the Golden Crown of Prussia.

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The company was taken over by his 3 sons, and it stayed in the family until 1928, when it was built by

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The French railway company that operated the Oriented Express Company, Dave Bible one only, if your excuse me. I captured French excellent

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The The company also made it easier for people to trouble independently We didn't have to sign up for the whole exported tool.

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This is How was your manufacturer in Lester writing to one of the local newspapers, and he's done with a party of other people to Palestine, and he'd taken cook short tall

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tickets there. had paid for a fortnight to include everything and as he said there, it saved all the trouble of making his own arrangements, and well, the puzzling they mess us cook kind of games one of their best

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drago men, a Protestant hungarian Jew I think he's he's referring to an ethnic Jew.

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Rather than it's it's a it's a bit of a puzzle.

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But I think That's what she's referring to but he went on to say, Jeff was the only port of any importance in Palestine.

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Lots of people would have disagree, I think as an image of it.

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And it was fatiguing, he said, traveling to Jerusalem.

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When they got there. it's really about to be paved which any hardship is endurable when troubling to the Holy City.

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And it was you know something that motivated, and lots of people to actually go to the Holy Land and to go to Jerusalem in particular.

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So we do get some glimpse of People's experiences through these kinds of letters to newspapers.

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There's also a new market, new markets for holiday goods and services for the middle classes who were traveling abroad.

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Guidebooks is it? cooks produce their own guide books.

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By because i'm laurie's guidebooks were also widely available.

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You can get some of them online. Actually, if if you wanted to have a school, a point in trusting cameras.

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The first codec camera produced in the U.S.A. by George's son in 1,988. but

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We can more widely available. That's the century progressed not that easy to operate, but some certainly a market for that.

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If you were going abroad, clothing suitable for different clients, which are actually return to in terms of our advice.

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And for souvenirs, as you see from the friends of remembrance.

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So you buy something to bring back with you. I just to give us a gift, or to show people as a reminder of your holiday, and also insurance.

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As the century went on again. This is a punch part, too.

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The The form of luggage insurance is to where everything, if they possibly can.

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And you can see that they've all got on several layers of clothing.

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Several hats and the caption if you can't read it says it's rather troublesome when traveling to carry all one's personal property about one even that is better than losing one's luggage

00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:28.000
altogether to say that it was possible to take out insurance certainly by

00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:35.000
The later nineteenth century. But using one's luggage was not an common occurrence.

00:29:35.000 --> 00:29:45.000
Hence the yeah punch picking up on it that's a popular appeal

00:29:45.000 --> 00:30:04.000
Some of other Victorian travel companies the Polytechnic Tutorial Association, Specifically, to begin with, with, the staff and students at the Regent Street, Polytechnic, in London from 1888 and this is

00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:08.000
one of an image from one of its cruises.

00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:15.000
Norway cruises, and from time time became an independent company in 1911.

00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:28.000
Later Polly Travel, and then the cooperative educational tools founded by this man, Dr.

00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:36.000
Henry Lum, former Methodist medical missionary in 1893.

00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:40.000
He organized conferences abroad, and then

00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:48.000
I guess all the potential for offering tools, particularly to the Middle East and North Africa and

00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:55.000
They merge holy travel, and no formed non poly.

00:30:55.000 --> 00:31:02.000
In *. Name that's probably very familiar to you that became part of Thompson.

00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:10.000
I mean before being absorbed by Tui

00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:16.000
Oh, Some advice to British tourists abroad. again.

00:31:16.000 --> 00:31:20.000
Punch Punch like to poke fun at the

00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:24.000
The desire of the English to stay very English when they went abroad.

00:31:24.000 --> 00:31:30.000
This is just one example from Asian 76.

00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:35.000
So everything is. Show me a room furnished in the English fashion.

00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:46.000
The English Church, the English doctor, the English papers etc. etc., and there are quite a lot of it on the zoom.

00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:53.000
Punch bye of that nature poking fun it's usually the English rather than the British ship.

00:31:53.000 --> 00:32:00.000
Also. whatever reason should you learn to speak English? sorry.

00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:03.000
Should you learn to speak foreign language is rather than English.

00:32:03.000 --> 00:32:10.000
If you went to board. Well, this is A journal from Lester Liberal Journal.

00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:13.000
From last year 1,896 said there's no need for that.

00:32:13.000 --> 00:32:25.000
Like non fair. that's a different language is spoken the Continent in general, and Switzerland in particular, swell with English people during the summer season.

00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:30.000
I suppose that's fine if you only want to speak to other English people.

00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:35.000
But there were lots of phrase books as you can imagine.

00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:41.000
And you You may have seen paradise of some of these would actually sort of real one.

00:32:41.000 --> 00:32:47.000
That starts off by saying, you know, please don't go so fast, etc., etc.

00:32:47.000 --> 00:33:00.000
And then it's like the it is thundering and lightning, and the wheel has come off the carriage, and so progresses from fairly unnerving to complete disaster.

00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:12.000
And that is actually a genuine moment. how often people needed that I wouldn't like to say but here's some more advice.

00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:18.000
So this is the answer trouble before it's almost cooks escorted tools. really so off.

00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:34.000
So this is the people it's a prices don't for people traveling to furniture remote areas on their own. and some of this advice is is very very practical, as you can see go

00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:41.000
ahead. The dentist, before you travel as you were less than you want, is raging toothache in the middle of nowhere.

00:33:41.000 --> 00:33:48.000
Justin Las with funnel next to the skin, so that you can remove layers of your clothes.

00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:54.000
So I see temperature changes make your own soap if you forget to pack it.

00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:59.000
So you have to take the ingredients with for the soap with you.

00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:03.000
Dealing with the snake bite exploding gunpowder in.

00:34:03.000 --> 00:34:10.000
It is no cost. Stick is to hand and also reminds me of Laurie's died from the *s.

00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:18.000
I think in the holy that devices people to take a pistol with them, and

00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:22.000
That is perfectly possible to buy gunpowder when you get there.

00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:28.000
But you might like to stock upon it before you go so I say that that's quite a lot later.

00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:31.000
But and this, I think, is a very, very good advice.

00:34:31.000 --> 00:34:35.000
Label the bottom of pill bottles rather than the lives.

00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:40.000
So is that so you're sure hopefully if you haven't entered the whole

00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:52.000
You're sure that you're not actually got to what it says on the awesome rather than Many kinds of creeping things are edible.

00:34:52.000 --> 00:35:01.000
It's not very specific about which and a woman will not your long journey nearly as well as a man, and certainly better than a wholesale book.

00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:09.000
I I leave you to make of that what she will.

00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:14.000
Tips full, ladies in particular there's lots and lots of advice.

00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:22.000
I've just picked out few from various sources don't assume that anything will do when you're traveling abroad.

00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:32.000
January to June. Search costume, silk stockings, and button boots, because he elastic boots, make the uncles swell good advice.

00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:41.000
Remember to pack your allivery gloves stretches quite where you're going to use them is is open to speculation.

00:35:41.000 --> 00:36:01.000
I think, but that was a serious piece of advice that you are very close and riding, because, quite a lot of these tools in the Middle East in particular, required you to ride horse a donkey. or sometimes a tumble so a lady won't require a side.

00:36:01.000 --> 00:36:14.000
Saddle if they're going to syria but the sorry will require size subtle, and also for many excursions on donkey of the Nile.

00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:19.000
But if you go with masses, cook steamers that they will provide the side struggle for you.

00:36:19.000 --> 00:36:26.000
So what Another advantage of going on an organized tool?

00:36:26.000 --> 00:36:33.000
I thought about foreign railways this little bulk actually 1862.

00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:38.000
The railway travel is funding. Book contains a lot specialized about British railways as well.

00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:46.000
Very common sense. I fly slide, not sticking ahead after the window, and not crossing the lines.

00:36:46.000 --> 00:36:53.000
When I train is due, because they were That was very often how you got from one platform to another.

00:36:53.000 --> 00:37:00.000
But specifically about forum railways i've just picked out 2 examples.

00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:04.000
In front. you had to surrender your luggage to the officials.

00:37:04.000 --> 00:37:09.000
And hey, fee to get back the location there.

00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:22.000
At your destination. so you're allowed to take £60 of knowledge, free of charge that's a lot of luggage, and it, it reflects the length of the stay.

00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:28.000
But most people were expecting when they went to Broad and in Belgium.

00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:33.000
Women anyone actually had to reach or quit their place.

00:37:33.000 --> 00:37:46.000
To climb over the seats and that's all right for males, the book said. but this is not very good for females, because I have to clumber over in the most awkward and delicate

00:37:46.000 --> 00:37:51.000
fashion on the there are you know. it goes through the

00:37:51.000 --> 00:37:57.000
The whole range really of foreign railways, just the American railways on the epidemi of comfort.

00:37:57.000 --> 00:38:05.000
But there's much more one thing you didn't require until 19.

00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:19.000
14 was a passport, and when they were introduced to clearly it was Oh, to do with the first one the lead up to the war on this particular act, and

00:38:19.000 --> 00:38:23.000
This is on a a single page folded into 8.

00:38:23.000 --> 00:38:45.000
You can see here 8 to there. with a cardboard cover it's not it for 2 years with a photograph and a personal description of your features, and say, that that was completely unnecessary until 1914

00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:57.000
just to conclude to give you just a an idea of attempts to build a Channel tunnel in the nineteenth century.

00:38:57.000 --> 00:39:04.000
Say No, nothing new at all. The first serious attempt in 1875

00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:18.000
With this Company Channel Tunnel Company authorized by up to Parliament to to start trying there's some just bullying, and that kind of thing simultaneously in

00:39:18.000 --> 00:39:22.000
From. So it was a joint enterprise, and

00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:31.000
It was intended to to meet in the middle. So it was one of the people who promoted it was the ahead of the great central Railway.

00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:37.000
So. and what can I think? a division of being able to go?

00:39:37.000 --> 00:39:41.000
You know, from the north of England right through to France.

00:39:41.000 --> 00:39:49.000
But although several shafts and tunnels were board the Government with joy support, and they are the 1880 S.

00:39:49.000 --> 00:39:54.000
Because it was concerned about the uses to which a tunnel might be put.

00:39:54.000 --> 00:40:04.000
And there's a quote from lieutenant General Saddam, it will say, no matter what fortifications and defenses were built.

00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:07.000
There would always be the peril of some Continental army.

00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:13.000
Seizing the for some Continental army.

00:40:13.000 --> 00:40:20.000
I think you can safely read the French because I was seamlessly the most likely to to do this.

00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:33.000
So to conclude that's part of an abandoned tunnel from those works in 1880 near to Dover at some Margaret's day.

00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:46.000
So that's the end of the lecture and I just want to say if you enjoyed this, and you might be interested in other things a little bit presenting a series.

00:40:46.000 --> 00:41:03.000
Excuse me. I 8 stand alone vectors in the autumn term. so or anything in between you just to enroll for the walls that you'd like to attend and that's on the theme of Victorian

00:41:03.000 --> 00:41:17.000
Britain's view from the street so everything that went on in the streets of Victoria will be covered in those lectures on there on Tuesdays at 1030, just for an hour starting on the thirteenth and

00:41:17.000 --> 00:41:21.000
September. So thank you very much for watching.

00:41:21.000 --> 00:41:26.000
I stop sharing, and then we could take some questions.

00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:42.000
Thank you very much, for since that was really interesting, and I think you know, really interesting to hear a little bit of the history of Thomas Cook, because it's a name that we're all so familiar, with yeah, to hear some of the the history of that

00:41:42.000 --> 00:41:45.000
and I have to see some quite alarming advice.

00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:52.000
There i'm entirely sure where the gunpoded idea came from doesn't sound particularly sensible doesn't it.

00:41:52.000 --> 00:41:59.000
And okay, so let's have a look at some questions Now where should we start? No.

00:41:59.000 --> 00:42:04.000
The was actually a question that came in quite early on. It was when you were talking about the compound steam engine.

00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:11.000
Actually as kind of you know, one of the big developments that meet and foreign travel at that time and possible.

00:42:11.000 --> 00:42:19.000
No. Miranda was asking what other? What was the other fuel used in the the compound steam engine so obviously call there.

00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:25.000
But I think there was another feel I don't know but I can find out.

00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:34.000
Yeah. So alright, Okay, a bit more of a technical question.

00:42:34.000 --> 00:42:37.000
That's Okay, I i'll be interested in the answer myself.

00:42:37.000 --> 00:42:42.000
So that's no problem. Okay, Okay, right so let's move on.

00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:50.000
Then. Okay. no. There was one question that has come in from Barbara when we were talking about Tom's kick.

00:42:50.000 --> 00:43:02.000
Obviously we we took Tom's cook quite love did cook wreck his tours in advance, or first, or did he rely more on local contacts in order to put his tools together?

00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:12.000
He. he certainly record records the and at the earliest stages the he would go, and you know.

00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:17.000
Take with with a little bit of an entourage.

00:43:17.000 --> 00:43:24.000
He would build the local relationship, you know, identified the suitable accommodation and that kind of thing.

00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:33.000
I think us the business grew bigger than He employed other people to do that, but in the early stages of the business

00:43:33.000 --> 00:43:40.000
He would actually go and visit and work these things out, then come back and set up the tool.

00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:44.000
Hmm: Okay. interesting. And on a question from Brian.

00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:49.000
And obviously Thomas cooks no longer longer with us these days.

00:43:49.000 --> 00:43:58.000
Is he? Would you be right in understanding that Thomas Cook actually meant bust the number of times during its existence?

00:43:58.000 --> 00:44:03.000
Yes, I think it. They went into administration again, I I can check out the dates.

00:44:03.000 --> 00:44:17.000
If you'd like me to because there is there's a sort of timeline for that it it was very close to going bankrupt before this latest time.

00:44:17.000 --> 00:44:26.000
And It was it's been in various times the midterm bank home dish at one time, and various other.

00:44:26.000 --> 00:44:36.000
So I I can find out, because we are going to there is going to be a facility isn't the Yeah, We can certainly take that and answer it afterwards.

00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:42.000
And post some and it comes so I think the

00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:45.000
The answer is, Some of the in it went into administration.

00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:49.000
I was rescued, but I'm not quite sure when so I will find out.

00:44:49.000 --> 00:44:58.000
Okay. Excellent. Okay. No, A couple of other questions about Thomas Cook did

00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:05.000
Did he have any major disasters on any of his tours that were documented in any way?

00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:21.000
Not not in terms of you know, people being injured, and this kind of thing but he did in the early stages, and he took a tour to Scotland, and that involved steamers as well as the

00:45:21.000 --> 00:45:28.000
railway they? There was a total absence of toilet facilities.

00:45:28.000 --> 00:45:36.000
Apparently, and by time. By the time the passengers dissembled their destination, it was said that they were.

00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:41.000
They were fit to bursting. and you know this was

00:45:41.000 --> 00:45:46.000
This was quite a serious oversight in terms of of that comfort of which they had known by the time they were.

00:45:46.000 --> 00:45:59.000
The journey went on. So things did go wrong sometimes and Then he he would learn the lessons of that, and make different arrangements, but i'm not aware of any actual disasters.

00:45:59.000 --> 00:46:09.000
You know any thinking about railway crashes? attacks during the holidays, or anything like that?

00:46:09.000 --> 00:46:15.000
Okay, right? What else do we have got another question. but Thompson?

00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:21.000
Wait! Are we sorry? Let me just kind of scroll up. And then the chat here.

00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:28.000
Did any. Yet did other countries have kind of like an equivalent of Thomas Cook.

00:46:28.000 --> 00:46:37.000
Tourists that we know about. Yes, they did develop particularly, I think, in the United States.

00:46:37.000 --> 00:46:49.000
But also in European countries they often they were railway companies that arranged tools at various times.

00:46:49.000 --> 00:46:54.000
So they they did use him as a vegetable model Yes, I can't.

00:46:54.000 --> 00:47:00.000
I can't give you a name at the moment many of them but I I probably can't miss the if I have a look.

00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:07.000
But yes, he's not was used you know by other people.

00:47:07.000 --> 00:47:22.000
But I say often it was really companies, because they had the, you know they had the means of transporting people, and often hotels and and resource facilities were developed as well by raw making. this.

00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:27.000
So I see if I can find any specific examples for you.

00:47:27.000 --> 00:47:35.000
Okay. This is not so much of a question, but but more of an observation actually from Norman.

00:47:35.000 --> 00:47:51.000
Talking about Donald Ju, who I believe was Scotland's first first minister, and obviously his duties, demanded that he occasionally visited other countries, and traveled, and apparently civil servants discovered that he did

00:47:51.000 --> 00:48:11.000
not possess a passport And when he was asked about this point in an interview, he said, trouble with travel is that it narrows the main completely against kind of the motivations for Thomas cook absolutely that that was his

00:48:11.000 --> 00:48:20.000
reason for not having a they didn't want to travel

00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:27.000
No, what else do we have Oh, No he's a he's a question from Francesco.

00:48:27.000 --> 00:48:31.000
How did Tom's cook help with the siege of cartoon?

00:48:31.000 --> 00:48:37.000
By evacuating helping to evacuate the British population.

00:48:37.000 --> 00:48:44.000
Basically, Yeah. and how did they actually do that? I mean, what was that?

00:48:44.000 --> 00:48:52.000
You know, Presumably Yep. So presume? Yes, yes, exactly Nile steamers were

00:48:52.000 --> 00:48:56.000
He stopped taking tourists and They were used by the

00:48:56.000 --> 00:49:07.000
Well, you know operated hunted over to the military in that sense to be used to evacuate the city interesting.

00:49:07.000 --> 00:49:16.000
Let's see what else we have Oh, no here is a question from Tomico.

00:49:16.000 --> 00:49:32.000
When did Wicks weeks start providing mass transport for industrial times to seaside resorts? I guess that's more of a kind of British holiday kind of question.

00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:42.000
Also wakes. Weeks originated in the certainly established by the eighteenth century, and then last the railway network developed.

00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:50.000
Then I it it just depended where people were. but in the north of England, for example, Manchester.

00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:56.000
Lancashire, then? really, from certainly from the 1,800 sixtys.

00:49:56.000 --> 00:50:00.000
Maybe a bit earlier, just depending how well developed the railways were.

00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:07.000
But quite a few seaside results really developed from the railway trouble.

00:50:07.000 --> 00:50:15.000
If that makes sense rather than being resource that the railway so went to, because some like a burst, for example.

00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:23.000
We're quite inaccessible without the railway so and on the you know, on the east coast.

00:50:23.000 --> 00:50:29.000
Not not wakes weeks so much, but in just real holidays people went from Nottingham.

00:50:29.000 --> 00:50:34.000
Lester to skag mass and results like that.

00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:42.000
So it. It was very much a case of how the railways developed, how accessible it these places became.

00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:50.000
And then in turn started to develop facilities. Do I encourage people to visit, or or even to

00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:57.000
Stay It it varied. but I think you know really by the 18 sixties that there were

00:50:57.000 --> 00:51:03.000
There was quite a lot of access to see side terms particular.

00:51:03.000 --> 00:51:12.000
These wakes weeks and holidays when well cause yeah, yeah, okay.

00:51:12.000 --> 00:51:22.000
No here's a He was a practical question what the travellers do about foreign currency.

00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:31.000
They could. yeah, somebody else say, this while back and I I I didn't know but you could actually buy it in Britain.

00:51:31.000 --> 00:51:40.000
I found when I started looking I found quite a lot of advert for a bureau discharge, and some banks offered the service.

00:51:40.000 --> 00:51:51.000
So you I went on by coach once, and we had to work out what the currency was, and how much we'd need for each country.

00:51:51.000 --> 00:51:57.000
We went through quite about 5. I think so you couldn't arrange it in our phones.

00:51:57.000 --> 00:52:05.000
Certainly by the early twentieth century, then organizations like Thomas, who would would arrange it for you.

00:52:05.000 --> 00:52:09.000
But it was possible to. In fact, it was important that you did that.

00:52:09.000 --> 00:52:15.000
You bought your currency And so the appropriate countries before you went.

00:52:15.000 --> 00:52:19.000
Because it was cheap about why it popped, or anything else.

00:52:19.000 --> 00:52:25.000
Okay? And now it's few people asking about the course references for your courses that you've got coming up.

00:52:25.000 --> 00:52:35.000
So what we'll do forks I'll make sure they get those course References from Cynthia, and we will push them up alongside some of the answers to the questions that we were going to come back to and and push

00:52:35.000 --> 00:52:39.000
them up, and beside the recording of the lecture as soon as we can.

00:52:39.000 --> 00:52:44.000
Yeah, after the lecture when it's ready to go

00:52:44.000 --> 00:53:01.000
No, We've got another question here from janet You talk to kind of near the start of the lecture about the grand tour, and Janet is asking when if ever did women go on the ground too not always as far as

00:53:01.000 --> 00:53:14.000
I know not the gravitational itself i've not found any references and it to that, and it would have I think it would have seen been a inappropriate in all sorts of ways.

00:53:14.000 --> 00:53:27.000
First of all they didn't have the well they couldn't go to university, so they didn't have the level of education that the grand tour was designed to to finish off and

00:53:27.000 --> 00:53:39.000
It was almost unthinkable for for women to go on these these sorts of troubling expeditions at that sort of time.

00:53:39.000 --> 00:53:43.000
Things became easier for them in the nineteenth century.

00:53:43.000 --> 00:54:00.000
On the part of you female explorers like Lady Florence Dixie, for example, who went to Patagonia amongst other places, and Lady go through Bell, and it also became easier for women to you

00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:07.000
know to to travel independently by the end of the nineteenth century, but in terms of the grand tool.

00:54:07.000 --> 00:54:21.000
Then, no there wasn't an equivalent for women seems like a bit machine doesn't it? and the sign of the time Okay, right.

00:54:21.000 --> 00:54:25.000
I think we have probably just about covered all that we can.

00:54:25.000 --> 00:54:38.000
Thanks very much for that, Cynthia. I hope everybody enjoyed that certainly I did, and a couple of eye openers there from me!
 

00:00:05.000 --> 00:00:10.000
Hello, good afternoon, evening to all of you. Can you all see and hear me?

00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:15.000
Well, okay.

00:00:15.000 --> 00:00:23.000
Excellent good as usual. I put far too much into this, because I want to tell you so much, because it is all so amazing a topic.

00:00:23.000 --> 00:00:38.000
I could talk for hours and hours, and hours. and probably shouldn't Let me start you off with a little quote from a tell of 2 cities, Charles Dickens, where the the young lad Jerry asks his dad. she's a resurrection

00:00:38.000 --> 00:00:42.000
man and his father is and doesn't really want to answer that question.

00:00:42.000 --> 00:00:48.000
He says. Oh, he's a trademark a branch of scientific goods, person's bodies ain't it?

00:00:48.000 --> 00:01:03.000
Father says little jerry believe it's something of that sort Oh, father, I should so like to be a resurrection man when I grow up so, which is just beautiful now by that point when he's writing resurrection men

00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:06.000
are fairly thin on the ground. this is something that can be joked about.

00:01:06.000 --> 00:01:21.000
But if you've gone back 20 years ago it was a far more serious topic, the period we're looking at is pretty much during the murder act, which runs 1,752 to 1,832 and before that there

00:01:21.000 --> 00:01:28.000
are very, very few corpses of available just basically 6 a year for the whole country.

00:01:28.000 --> 00:01:35.000
But very few people are doing any dissection, not have people doing surgical training to need it.

00:01:35.000 --> 00:01:40.000
After that they changed the law, so that other kinds of bodies are more reasonably available.

00:01:40.000 --> 00:01:51.000
But for that bit in between there is a growing problem is there are a certain number of corpses available, but nowhere near enough.

00:01:51.000 --> 00:02:05.000
Now this is after the 1752 murder act, which says that every murderer and a few other people like Julists, and those who kill with knives and some highway robbers, have to be either gibbeted or

00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:10.000
dissected, but actually most of them are dissected.

00:02:10.000 --> 00:02:16.000
80%. Still, not huge numbers of in the whole of the northeast of England.

00:02:16.000 --> 00:02:30.000
Over that eighty-year period it's only 9 people. So you know, if you're relying on somebody committing a murder to get a body, it could be if there's a problem for you and the demand for trained surgeons is going up

00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:43.000
and up. get the training. You can go to University, Edinburgh, for instance, or Cambridge, or you can apprentice to another surgeon, which means you need some apprenticeships, some hospital. experience.

00:02:43.000 --> 00:02:51.000
But you need to get that experience in bodies and you're not allowed to do anything with live patients until you've got your qualifications.

00:02:51.000 --> 00:02:56.000
I don't know howdy any other options in 1,993.

00:02:56.000 --> 00:03:04.000
There are 200 medical students in London 30 years later. there are over a 1,000, and they're all going to want to train on bodies.

00:03:04.000 --> 00:03:09.000
Now there's a big debate as to where these bodies should come from

00:03:09.000 --> 00:03:12.000
Should, should it be that anyone who kills themselves should be allowed?

00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:16.000
Should it be that the surgeons should volunteer their own bodies when they die?

00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:25.000
Should you just sort of snatch one from from a proper graves, and nobody will ever notice or know a thing that definitely happened.

00:03:25.000 --> 00:03:31.000
It's pretty clear that a lot of people decide the easiest method is to do it yourself.

00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:48.000
So this is the kind of a sort of parody version of the kind of place that these bodies would be ending up, because in the nineteenth century you stop having all the dissections ha happening in this kind of surroundings with a lot of

00:03:48.000 --> 00:04:01.000
people watching one expert to do it, and you get more towards this kind of thing where students would expect to be able to be actively involved, actively cutting up themselves.

00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:07.000
And that's probably a bit more chaotic than it really was, but not necessarily by that much.

00:04:07.000 --> 00:04:27.000
And if you consume a far enough in on these things here, you just about my account levels as a female there, for instance, that this is a price list for bodies, because bodies are becoming this commodity and the fair has always been there of taking

00:04:27.000 --> 00:04:33.000
bodies. Shakespeare's epitaph curses anyone who disturbs his bones.

00:04:33.000 --> 00:04:45.000
That's just because he's famous I think he thought that somebody might do the Dick Turpin's bones are found and dug up and an atomized and that's 1,739 again because he's

00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:55.000
famous, but it's growing fair and a perfectly reasonable one

00:04:55.000 --> 00:05:13.000
Switching in and out between between the pictures and initially, these rich young lads who are getting all of that training, who they have to be fairly rich, to be paying for the full qualification Initially, a lot of them are doing it themselves

00:05:13.000 --> 00:05:20.000
It's sort of expected. Bring your own corpse or what are you going to practice on and they're doing it themselves.

00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:23.000
Well you know they're rich they don't really like grave Robin.

00:05:23.000 --> 00:05:37.000
They're there is instantly a commodity and therefore, in many people who will be quite happy to fill that, and gradually, over, time it becomes less something that the students do and more something that gangs do on their behalf

00:05:37.000 --> 00:05:44.000
and those people i'll soon known as resurrectionists or resurrection men, because they are bringing bodies back up.

00:05:44.000 --> 00:05:58.000
It's not simple so in March 24 6 for instance, there's a newspaper report, the remains of more than 20 bodies were discovered in a shed in Tottenham Court, road supposed to have been deposited there

00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:09.000
by traders to the surgeons of whom there is one. it is said in the borough, who makes an open profession of dealing in bodies, and is well known by the name of the resurrectionist and that's one of

00:06:09.000 --> 00:06:21.000
the first mentions of that name coming up and over the next 20 years, that shift is completed to being a professional matter in 1,790.

00:06:21.000 --> 00:06:34.000
5. There's a gang of 15 men who are exposed to be serving 8 surgeons of public repute, and of a man who calls himself an articulator, and they're giving him bodies from lots of graveyards

00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:51.000
Now the articulator might be a gentleman who turns in the press quite a lot, as in this era, actually selling skeletons quite openly in the newspapers Business cards will sell you skeletons and nobody ever seems to try and track

00:06:51.000 --> 00:07:06.000
down where He's Got these skeletons from it's a bit weird and this's a lot of it happening both in London and in Edinburgh and in places along the route between the 2

00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:13.000
predominantly, sometimes further out but that's that's The main area of traffic in 1,828.

00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:28.000
The Select Committee tried to work out just how much of this is going on, and they say that in a year they are aware of 592 bodies have been dissected, and they know that less than a tenth of those are

00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:32.000
from legal sources, and that must be the tip of the iceberg.

00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:38.000
You know of those 592, 312 were from the same gang.

00:07:38.000 --> 00:07:42.000
But there were other gangs, low and anatomy.

00:07:42.000 --> 00:08:04.000
Schools alone had 2 rival gangs and approximately a 100 to 200 part timers the the person who's done the biggest survey on this thinks that it might have been several 1,000 a year so it's worth

00:08:04.000 --> 00:08:11.000
doing is the thing, because if you are a body snatcher the great robber, you can earn a £1,000 a year.

00:08:11.000 --> 00:08:19.000
That's 5 to 10 times what the wage of an unskilled labourer would be might be a 100 50.

00:08:19.000 --> 00:08:32.000
So, you know, and that with having all your summers off. as well, there's no point trying to do it in summer, because everybody Yeah, everybody wants to, quickly. So you're not going to get anywhere. And so you get 3 or 4 months of the year off.

00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:40.000
And earn 10 times the standard wage it's gonna be tempting. and it's all the more tempting because it's not really that illegal weirdly.

00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:48.000
This is because a corpse is not technically property and you can't steal something that isn't democracy who's a corpse belong to

00:08:48.000 --> 00:09:02.000
So there are specific laws, but nothing that big You could get into a lot more trouble if you robbed grave goods if you robbed valuable clothing because clothing has an owner and a value, a great corpse

00:09:02.000 --> 00:09:13.000
does not. So usually, if a resurrectionist is caught in the late eighteenth century, that they're going to get a whipping

00:09:13.000 --> 00:09:21.000
But unless it's really blatant the authorities top we don't have that much trouble with you, so your method.

00:09:21.000 --> 00:09:29.000
Yes, i'm going to go back now to my pictures for a moment, because what I've got here is a dark lantern.

00:09:29.000 --> 00:09:38.000
These are examples of dark lanterns, which are the kind that you use, which also give very directed light, that you can very easily close off, and they are

00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:42.000
Certainly dark lantons is a very period whether they were used for this or not.

00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:49.000
So what you would do we'll take you maybe an hour to dig somebody up.

00:09:49.000 --> 00:10:03.000
You big down at the head end, and you you have a special wooden shovel, because a wooden shovel will rejoice. there will reduce the amount of noise that it makes when it goes into the earth but will still be hard enough to do

00:10:03.000 --> 00:10:06.000
the job. So you you dig right down at the head end.

00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:13.000
Then you crowbar up the lid a little bit to snap the top section off it the top foot or so.

00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:20.000
Then you put a rope around either the neck or actually under the arms, and then you pull them out through that top bit, and then you fill it.

00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:34.000
The dirt back into space. We have good descriptions of this

00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:48.000
Joe. I don't think we can hear you

00:10:48.000 --> 00:11:02.000
Okay, better that's it thank you very much with this type of microphone that it does every now and then just randomly stop, and you just have to say, Oh, you come back on again. worry about that it's It's always done it just every few

00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:07.000
hours we'll do it. Okay, Well, you're back online I should disappear again.

00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:16.000
So what was the last thing you heard that's the important thing i'm not sure

00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:21.000
Okay, so we know that we go down to the head end and pull the body up by the head.

00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:26.000
Yes, yes, it's just the last sort of 30 s basically Okay, that's good.

00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:36.000
So yeah, you let down a rope with a grapple Corgan says, from his experience of doing it, that you call on the grapple till the coffin cracks.

00:11:36.000 --> 00:11:48.000
Put the broke around, body it up, carry it across the churchyard, and go to where, he says some 4 or 6 are gathered together, awaiting the arrival of the car to convey them straight to a dissecting

00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:59.000
theater. What added the ghastly character of the moonlit scene was that the bodies were stripped stark naked for the possession of a shroud subjects us to prosecution that's what i'm saying

00:11:59.000 --> 00:12:03.000
that you know it's it's not about the body it's about the shroud, which is really counterintuitive.

00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:09.000
But that's that's how it is so there are surprisingly few pictures of people actually doing it from the era.

00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:17.000
But this is one dissectionists at work with a nice ghost in there.

00:12:17.000 --> 00:12:21.000
Just a further scare everybody, and then, of course, they put everything neatly back into place.

00:12:21.000 --> 00:12:30.000
It seems very much a mark of a professional not to make it obvious what just happened, and they don't necessarily they don't really see themselves as bad as the bad guys.

00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:34.000
They're just you know doing what has to be done because they have to train.

00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:48.000
Someone has to get the bodies up. If you get to that stage and find that the body is actually not as fresh as you hoped, then what you would probably do is take some of the teeth, particularly the kines, and then you would sell them to

00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:58.000
the dentists, so that at least you got something out of the process, because at this point they're still putting whole teeth straight into other people's mouths.

00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:01.000
No, of course, sometimes that you are gone even for that and you wouldn't do it.

00:13:01.000 --> 00:13:06.000
If the person had clearly died a small box for instance we know so much about them.

00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:16.000
Because of a marvelous thing which is this: This is a page on the diary of Joseph Naples is gang.

00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:25.000
The Borough gang were active in London in the 18 tens Ben Crouch was their leader.

00:13:25.000 --> 00:13:38.000
He's a bully and a prize fighter then they're the heart, and Harnet brothers a former porter from the dissecting rooms and a church sexton, which is obviously helps and we can

00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:46.000
see in this both The scale of what they're doing and where they're taking the different bodies, and also how much money they're getting for them.

00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:53.000
I'm not sure if you can make out any of the thing there, so i'll show you there's a little bit of it to transcribed.

00:13:53.000 --> 00:14:19.000
I'll give you a moment just to read

00:14:19.000 --> 00:14:24.000
When he's talking about large and small there that's obviously adults and children.

00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:29.000
And there is also the mention of a features and to a certain extent.

00:14:29.000 --> 00:14:41.000
They Wouldn't know what they were digging up but not entirely you can see they're being taken to lots of different places to guys and Thomas's and also to individuals.

00:14:41.000 --> 00:14:44.000
And some are being sent up to towards Edinburgh.

00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:50.000
And it is very lucrative, as I say, he made a good part of money.

00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:53.000
Doing this

00:14:53.000 --> 00:15:03.000
He mentions over the course of the text, the various schools, and also 5 private anatomy schools.

00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:12.000
The children's bodies. It would appear are done are paid for by length, whereas the adults are a base for guinea.

00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:16.000
So. Yes, we can work out all sorts of things by looking at this at this dire.

00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:25.000
It's a bit gruesome. there, you go according to Joshua Burke Brooks, who was one of the people that he was giving these bodies to.

00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:32.000
He complained that the costs had gone up, and the gangs were taking advantage of their need for more bodies, and he was winging.

00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:35.000
But when he started in the business he could get a body for as little as 2 guineas.

00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:40.000
And now it had gone up to at least 4, sometimes more.

00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:44.000
Which yeah, seems a little ungrateful. But there you go.

00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:54.000
That's Joshua brooks there it's one of the people that was taking these others would go to theatres of anatomy.

00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:57.000
Where would you be done in a very formal way like have on this side?

00:15:57.000 --> 00:16:02.000
That's the Cambridge theatre of anatomy Miss Brooks.

00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:11.000
There had a private medical school, and with all of the bodies that he had coming in, he was also able to build up anatomical museum.

00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:24.000
One visitor to this museum said it was so crowned with skeletons and other specimens that it was hardly possible to move without knocking down something with one's tail coat, which my my house, is much the same but

00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:39.000
it isn't all comprised of body parts in Jars which I suspect Joshua Brooks's was on the work of the gangs. one a group in Edinburgh who have no gang name that we

00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:42.000
know of, but their own personal names are just brilliant.

00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:48.000
We know that this gang is involved a chap called Mary Andrew.

00:16:48.000 --> 00:16:56.000
So whose real name is Andrew merrillese and he's. he's the cart driver, and he said of him that he would be happy to sell his sister's own corpse.

00:16:56.000 --> 00:17:05.000
If only she would die. The spoon! New specialism, of course, is scooping the bodies out from the coffin like a spoon.

00:17:05.000 --> 00:17:13.000
And moldy warp, which is an old name for a mole because he's the one who's faster sit than digging

00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:19.000
Add, praying, Howard. It would join morning parties in order to try to get information.

00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:36.000
About who's being buried where and when what state they're in, and another called Screw, and that was it made up a gang

00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:40.000
Obviously it's easier if you are working with a grave digger if you can get them on sides.

00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:47.000
Then, that's a very helpful thing, but and in the early days some grave diggers just do it themselves, you know.

00:17:47.000 --> 00:17:48.000
Just you know where the bodies are. They can dig him up that night.

00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:58.000
No one else is going to be in the graveyard and it doesn't look suspicious in 1777, one grave digger and his deputy are convicted.

00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:04.000
Let me get 6 months imprisonment and a whipping be a lot worse.

00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:15.000
So yeah, they that that was if they said that it was inflict. The weapon was inflicted with a severity due to so detestable an offense.

00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:20.000
So they're whipped hard. But nonetheless that's the worst that it gets.

00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:26.000
So and of course you want to have a relationship with a doctor when you're doing this.

00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:36.000
Ashley Cooper was a dissection issue to keep in touch with the doctors of everyone he'd operated on, so that he would know who was going to be an interesting case to get his own men to go and dig

00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:45.000
up after they die. Oh, I did an operation on him i'd love to see how it went bring me back his body.

00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:48.000
Very strange man. askly Cooper allegedly.

00:18:48.000 --> 00:19:01.000
He would. if he wanted to give a friend a present, he would get a piece of bone, paint the person's name on it, feed it to a dog, and then later dissect the dog, get the bone and have a beautifully.

00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:08.000
etched name on the piece of bone so etched in dog, stomach, acid, and give them as a present to people.

00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:11.000
That's the kind of gentleman we're talking about here?

00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:15.000
Did I warn you at the start this was going to be very, very odd.

00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:18.000
I don't think I did, but that hopefully the title gave it away.

00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:25.000
So yes, you would hand this body on to either the surgeon or their assistant.

00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:40.000
Some kind of minor deniability that they're also known as the sack 'em up men, because they would carry them around in sacks and sometimes pack them in sawdust, and tie them up and sometimes

00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:44.000
disfigure the face to make it less obvious that people will work out.

00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:56.000
He's like Oh, brooks you just saw once refused to pay the body snatches the amount that they were asking.

00:19:56.000 --> 00:20:05.000
So they placed some part, dissected rotting corpses at either end of the street that his premises was gone.

00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:12.000
Yeah, members of the public in the dark, stumbled upon these rotting corpses and assumed that Brooks was to blame for it.

00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:23.000
Okay, I'm, not fully paying attention to what's in the thing. but I notice you've yes, you've noticed, my little friend Ball. but there is he's sadly not real you're not allowed to just keep real ones getting

00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:29.000
around like that, but but he has got. He has got one of the little labels from the skeletons for sale.

00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:45.000
People. where do you put the remains? afterwards? Well, if you still got an intact skeleton? you can send them to the skeleton iser, and he'll send them on Sometimes they just end up lying around

00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:59.000
the Gentleman's magazine Reports a group of people who found at the dung hill of Saint George's fields the bodies of a woman and 8 children cut up the handiwork presumable of some young

00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:07.000
anatomist who deserves a rigorous punishment for this carelessness, and indiscretion, Gentlemen's magazine doesn't mind that he did it in mind that he's

00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:11.000
carelessly, had indiscreetly got rid of the bodies where anyone can find them Who?

00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:17.000
This little

00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:28.000
This little pile of goodies was found under the house of Benjamin Franklin, and date from the time when he was training as a surgeon.

00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:36.000
When this was discovered, absolutely outraged, a large number of Americans who didn't want to think that their Benjamin Franklin could possibly be involved in anything like that.

00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:48.000
But given the time in place, he was at he almost certainly was and there is a very good chance that those were people that he dissected, and they just put them under the house just an hour, and put them under the house you've

00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:55.000
got a you see what that's floor why not some people do get hungry, you know.

00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:59.000
If they think it's happened near them they can there are riots.

00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:08.000
Occasionally the biggest one is in Aberdeen in January the eighteenth, 32 so soon before the act.

00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:13.000
There's a dog digging outside the grounds of a new anatomy.

00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:23.000
School finds fragments of bones, and people break in looking for bodies, and they find them, and the police try to break it up, but they make it worse.

00:22:23.000 --> 00:22:29.000
They try to say, Oh, just take those bodies away and the people don't want the bodies taken away.

00:22:29.000 --> 00:22:44.000
The people grab these half-dissected bodies and carry them around town, stirring up anger about this new anatomy school, and a crowd of what's described as 15,000 to 20,000 people then turn

00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:50.000
up at the anatomy school and burn it down So the anger was there.

00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:56.000
3 men get tried for this. They accept the lesser crime of rioting.

00:22:56.000 --> 00:23:03.000
But there's no charge of arson possible because no one could prove who the ringleaders were in all of us.

00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:11.000
So 3 rioters out of 15 or 20,000

00:23:11.000 --> 00:23:21.000
If you're carrying short distances just stick him in a basket, or you know, put them in a cloth whistle while you're doing it. it's common enough that mistakes are made.

00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:34.000
There's one anatomist who found his that in his Crete was a very fine ham, a large cheese, a basket of eggs, and a huge ball of yarn, and what had been expected was a corpse which

00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:44.000
is all well and good until you consider that some other gentleman, who was probably expecting a ham, some cheese, and some eggs in his basket, must have opened it up to find a corpse.

00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:48.000
Yeah. No good. You You could be too nonchalant.

00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:55.000
Alexander Lyons is arrested for walking up the back steps of Sheffield, musical with a corpse over his shoulder.

00:23:55.000 --> 00:24:04.000
Just casually like Oh, no, this is just my friend he's drunk So everything because that kind of thing could happen.

00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:07.000
Mistakes could happen in 1,823 there's a London man.

00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:20.000
He's walking along similarly with a bundle over his shoulder, and an arm is seen to fall out from it, and the the crowd kind of hustle him into the nearest watchhouse before anybody seems to notice or he has to tell them that

00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:26.000
he's a tailor and he's carrying a tailor's dummy with him?

00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:29.000
What should you do you think would be a list of, perhaps?

00:24:29.000 --> 00:24:43.000
So you tried to make these packages look inconspicuous, You, you know you put things in barrels and tea chests and rope handle with care on it.

00:24:43.000 --> 00:24:51.000
You claimed it was something like pickled herring, something that would smell bad, and therefore had a lot of sawdust in.

00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:54.000
Sometimes you try and squash them into a smaller space as you can.

00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:59.000
The cut. possibly the body in there, so why would anyone check

00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:05.000
Or you just carry it with you You know there's a 1 one body of a 12 year old.

00:25:05.000 --> 00:25:10.000
2 Blakes just carry it with them on the on the roof of a coach that's going that way.

00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:25.000
It can be risky eventually. People do sometimes notice these packages There's one in Newcastle where it misses one post, and then there isn't one on Sunday and by the next day this 6 foot long once a wide

00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:33.000
package is not in a good way, and is leaking a bit, and they start so they open it and find exactly what you would expect.

00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:40.000
They would find So yeah, I think things like that do happen.

00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:57.000
Most notorious case of a transportation problem happens in Liverpool, where there are 3 casks marked bitter salts, which are awaiting being sent to Edinburgh, and that their holes in it

00:25:57.000 --> 00:26:01.000
plugged with hay, and the the workers become a little suspicious.

00:26:01.000 --> 00:26:13.000
So they they call in their supervisor, and someone pulls out a bit of this, and of course the most horrible smell comes out, and he opens it, and each barrel contained 3 or 4 bodies.

00:26:13.000 --> 00:26:20.000
And they were just sitting there waiting to be shipped, and the trail of this, which was very easy to follow.

00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:24.000
They just went to the carto, who delivered them and said, Where did you pick them up from?

00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:41.000
Sold it back to a gentleman who had been renting out the seller of a boy school and claiming that it was being used for packing fish oil. at Yeah, this this guy were sending fish oil up to

00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:50.000
Edinburgh honest. So you're gonna want to protect yourself from all of this, and there's a range of different ways that people try to do that.

00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:56.000
Some people just keep the bodies with them until they're they're all magnitude oral.

00:26:56.000 --> 00:27:00.000
Then no one's gonna want them not fool-proof People can still try and nick them out.

00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:09.000
Your window that happens sometimes. you might lock them in a building like this one.

00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:17.000
This is the only green morthouse where each body gets put down, and then it gets rotated around a bit as a rope.

00:27:17.000 --> 00:27:23.000
That platform rotates right around by the time it's got back around to the start again.

00:27:23.000 --> 00:27:28.000
The chances are it's been there long enough to be of no interest to anyone at all.

00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:36.000
And then you vary it. Oh, which is kind of unpleasant plague.

00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:41.000
You might set up a watch tower, and there quite a few of these scattered.

00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:49.000
There are more in Scotland, Edinburgh seems to have drawn a lot of this thing in the Scotland. There's a lot more precautions, certainly, that survive.

00:27:49.000 --> 00:27:54.000
But of course there are lots more that don't you could have walls.

00:27:54.000 --> 00:28:00.000
You can have watchmen. when Balas tails is opened in Newcastle.

00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:11.000
They said that they built it deliberately. We wanted a place so defended by walls or other methods of security, and it should be next impossible for the robbers of the grave to accomplish their inhuman

00:28:11.000 --> 00:28:17.000
purposes so deliberately. high walls are being built at this date, and also deliberately.

00:28:17.000 --> 00:28:25.000
These watch houses with patrol men. you might also, or to get yourself a fancy coffin.

00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:31.000
So this is the bridgeman iron coffee, which is wrought iron.

00:28:31.000 --> 00:28:46.000
He has no hinges, no moving parts. As soon as the lid is put down there, eclipse which engage in it is impossible to reopen without an awful lot of force, and you will cover it with potentially cover it

00:28:46.000 --> 00:28:50.000
with silver foil, which will avoid it rusting. It will last a very long time.

00:28:50.000 --> 00:28:57.000
This is very unpopular with clergy, because they are reusing the graveyard ground all the time.

00:28:57.000 --> 00:29:03.000
They need the bodies to be able to decompose and this kind wouldn't, or very quickly in 1,819.

00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:09.000
Mrs. Gilbert of Hoban is put in one of these, and the vicar refuses to accept it.

00:29:09.000 --> 00:29:14.000
For that reason. in the end it is left on top of the tombstone.

00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:18.000
There is a broad over it, with one lot of people trying to bury it.

00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:29.000
And the vicar, saying, no no no we can't put that in here, and it remains on top of the tombstone for 3 months, while the vicar raises legal challenges about Why, you shouldn't have to

00:29:29.000 --> 00:29:39.000
bury a bridgeman iron coffin, which was rather defeat the object of getting it in the ground and safe out the way, though nobody actually wanted Mrs. Gilbert.

00:29:39.000 --> 00:29:44.000
Anyway. But there you go

00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:52.000
Rather cheaper than your full coffin is your janker you're coffin guard like go on on the right there.

00:29:52.000 --> 00:30:06.000
That hopefully will serve the same purpose for a lot less iron, or something like the coffin collar that you see on the left, which, of course, given the method of dying around the head and pulling out is going to make that very hard without smashing

00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:11.000
the coffin a lot further. You might also have another one round your feet.

00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:13.000
They're mostly ins Scotland but they did find one in St.

00:30:13.000 --> 00:30:27.000
James's in London just a couple of years ago and obviously there might be loads more that we just don't know about, because we haven't dig up the graves because generally we don't mort safe like this one again

00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:33.000
mostly in Scotland, but there are a few few other sounds invented in 1,816.

00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:40.000
We think some of them are reusable there's some iron frames that you padlock together.

00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:49.000
You only need to put the cost in it it for a couple of months, and then you can move the more safe to another spot where someone else needs. the protection.

00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:51.000
Others are permanent, and are set into the concrete.

00:30:51.000 --> 00:31:09.000
And yeah, that's that's another way that There are also parish more safe cages, which you can pay an annual subscription for the right to be one of the better bodies that is inside it at any one

00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:26.000
time. and you join the more safe society you can just do the whole thing in brick, and that or if you're feeling really paranoid, why not invest in a coffin gun or cemetery gun now?

00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:33.000
Some of this is myth. But there clearly were some people who tried this kind of thing.

00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:41.000
There are reports in the papers of setting up percussion capers of gunpowder traps that would go in the coffin with you.

00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:46.000
It wouldn't last very long before it got too damp. but then, by then you bodies of no interest anywhere.

00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:54.000
There are some of these symmetry guns that survive, but there's very little evidence about when and where they were used.

00:31:54.000 --> 00:32:05.000
It seems they were attached to a trip wire, so if you stumbled over it in the middle of the night, it would then shoot you the the section of some martin in the fields.

00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:21.000
Went one step further, so that he had built the ultimate cemetery gun, in which he kind of jury rigged several gun barrels together, and on New Year's eve 1,817 the was heard and

00:32:21.000 --> 00:32:33.000
the Times reports this, a tremendous report heard across the graveyard, and all of these bullets come out at once from this sort of home, rigged gizmo, and When people.

00:32:33.000 --> 00:32:46.000
Arrived at the scene they found a body snatchers hat with one. a bullet hole in it, not 2, which rather implies the bullet was still lodged in the head of the the body's nature, and He was then carried

00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:54.000
a lot off by his gang and also found there were the shovels, spades, picks, and other resurrection paraphernalia.

00:32:54.000 --> 00:33:04.000
So it did do its job at least that once. and this was yes, or more spun a version of what you can see there.

00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:08.000
We know that sometimes there's at least one case where man traps are used.

00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:23.000
Similar reasons, people just walking around with guns in 1,830 in glass, and Evan there is a full gun battle between guards and sack them up men over some bodies.

00:33:23.000 --> 00:33:34.000
If you're poor Of course you can't have any of that, you might just settle for putting stones on top and shells on top of the grave, which would allow people to at least see whether someone has been been

00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:45.000
robbed and the other thing you could do was try and add layers of stones and straw into the infill which would make you would hope to make it more trouble than it was worse.

00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:52.000
Or if you're desperate add some quick line, because then the bodies are no use to anyone.

00:33:52.000 --> 00:34:07.000
No. Then finally, it goes. We come to the the alternative method You can't protect your body if it hasn't had time to die and be buried in the first place because someone's just murdered you for

00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:23.000
it there. Of course we come to the notorious cases and we come to the lovely book, and he so that's contemporary pictures of them taken from around the time the trial burks try Washington.

00:34:23.000 --> 00:34:31.000
So the chocolate right is jot, is Robert Knox, of Edinburgh, and in 1,828.

00:34:31.000 --> 00:34:39.000
These 2 young men appear at his door with a body that they said that it's been put up for sale by his relatives.

00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:52.000
So it doesn't happen on foot, but you know it does occasionally happen, and he chose to believe them, which is to say, to not ask any questions, although this was where he gave them £7 and 10 shillings, which is you

00:34:52.000 --> 00:35:02.000
know more than I in fact, this gentleman had just died in Hair's boarding house, and he owed her money.

00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:06.000
So hair. The wealth he owes me money the only thing he's got is himself.

00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:10.000
It would be perfectly reasonable to sell him to get some of that money back.

00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:16.000
That was the logic, initially, apparently, and when they found out that they could get that much money out of doing it.

00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:20.000
Well, they're going to start making their own corpses instead aren't they?

00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:35.000
So over the next 10 months, 16 times they turn up at Knox's door with a fresh corpse generally carried in a tea chest, and what they did was they looked at the boarding house, and they thought you know who is most unlikely to

00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:42.000
be missed, and then take those people get them very drunk and smother them.

00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:55.000
They're aren't any direct pictures I don't Think of them which the problem to them doing that. But this is a satirical print of the same era which uses the same method which obviously was well, known at

00:35:55.000 --> 00:36:07.000
the time to be able to do it in that way that we, one of them, sort of sits on them, and the other one puts a hand over their face.

00:36:07.000 --> 00:36:13.000
And yeah, they get £10 per per body for most of them, sometimes a bit less, depending on condition.

00:36:13.000 --> 00:36:18.000
The wife of the one and partner of the other also help

00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:31.000
Now Knox claimed that he didn't recognize or know any of these people, but I think there is not that larger city, and the shifting body was that of a lad known as poor daft Jamie.

00:36:31.000 --> 00:36:47.000
As you see on the right there, and Knox must have known who he was, because he did something he didn't normally do, which was cut the face off before giving him to the students cause he is a well-known beggar and

00:36:47.000 --> 00:37:01.000
the student still recognized him. They also looked at each other and thought, Okay, we can't really deny the fact that we also recognized a couple of those prostitutes met those before notably Mary Patterson. at the bottom There he

00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:17.000
didn't get them to dissect Mary patterson he just embarked her, and then put her out for people to draw pictures of It's all a little bit creepy, and almost worse than just dissecting her because in

00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:21.000
that picture she looks fast asleep. doesn't she she's she's long dead.

00:37:21.000 --> 00:37:26.000
She's she's just been stuck in spirits in the meantime.

00:37:26.000 --> 00:37:37.000
There's a skipping rhyme from the era up the close and down the stair in the house with broken hair books, the books your hairs, the thief knocks the boy who buys the beef so on

00:37:37.000 --> 00:37:43.000
the back of this They're they're clearly getting too ambitious to obvious in what they're doing.

00:37:43.000 --> 00:37:49.000
A lot of people knew poor death, Jamie, and this is the result.

00:37:49.000 --> 00:37:55.000
Patterns, things, evidence here, jobs in book and says it was all books idea.

00:37:55.000 --> 00:38:03.000
And he was allowed he got immunity and we don't know where he went.

00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:06.000
He, just? there are rumors from several places around the country.

00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:11.000
Oh, he ended up in in Sundland or he ended up in this other place, but nobody's come up with good evidence.

00:38:11.000 --> 00:38:14.000
He's not going to keep his original knight and is he

00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:29.000
So how would you ever know Burke? Meanwhile, his hand in front of about 25,000 people, who were all shouting,

00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:36.000
Book hair. they because they want hair to be dead as well.

00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:40.000
And at this point, but is a word meaning smother and kill.

00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:46.000
So we say, Okay, you're gonna book book but can you bookcare as well.

00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:57.000
Yeah. it's you can see you know people packed into the windows, and so on, and apparently that's That's a very good representation of that particular bit of Edinburgh which makes you think that the rest

00:38:57.000 --> 00:39:01.000
is probably quite accurate as well

00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:07.000
On the back of this that is his skeleton.

00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:20.000
The person who has provided so many for the dissectionists of course, is absolutely legally in exactly the correct place to be sent for dissection, because he's a murderer, and that's what they do with

00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:26.000
murderers, and his skin is tanned and turned into this little book.

00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:38.000
It's it's rumored that charles Dickens had another piece that he used as a bookmark. There was a hard and debate at the time as to whether knocks should also be punished he wasn't and

00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:43.000
the public mood generally thought he should have been they they said.

00:39:43.000 --> 00:39:46.000
You know some of these corpses were fresh there was still blood oozing out of them.

00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:55.000
This clearly. hadn't been taken from the ground in any way he should have known they paraded an effigy of him around town.

00:39:55.000 --> 00:40:01.000
And then and it and tore it to pieces this is a multiplicant to the real thing.

00:40:01.000 --> 00:40:07.000
So they're going to do it to the effigy instead

00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:13.000
Even after that that is not enough for government to legislate.

00:40:13.000 --> 00:40:23.000
They actually try There's a bit of a movement that may be paupers should go straight to dissection, but it fails at the House of Lords because the House of Lords say even the poor have a right to a decent

00:40:23.000 --> 00:40:32.000
funeral, and another couple of years were all over. and then, of course, if it happens in London, then Parliament is going to take notice.

00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:38.000
Edinburgh is a long way away they didn't mind that much happens in London and big care.

00:40:38.000 --> 00:40:54.000
So this is John. Bishop Thomas Williams and James May, who killed at least 2 people for sale to anatomists, and the witnesses said they they carried their victims on a cart in a wooden box with one of

00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:58.000
their wives walking next to it, holding a bound box to make it appear that they were an ordinary family.

00:40:58.000 --> 00:41:08.000
Just the moving house they are discovered when more persons does decide there are limits to what he's willing to put up with.

00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:16.000
He's probably read all about Knox so this is a surgery called Richard Partridge, who Bishop Bit brings this body to him.

00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:20.000
The body is later called nicknamed the Italian boy.

00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:27.000
Nobody's quite sure what movie is and he he looks at this body and says, you know that's that's never been in the ground.

00:41:27.000 --> 00:41:33.000
It's got a club on his forehead he says he says, oh, well,

00:41:33.000 --> 00:41:39.000
You guys just wait outside because I need to go in and get change for a fifty-pound note.

00:41:39.000 --> 00:41:48.000
So if you just wait, then i'll be with you as soon as I can rustle up the change, and of course he goes in, tells his superior, who immediately nips out round the back and gets the police, and they are captured

00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:55.000
in front of the house with this body, and that leads to these trial documents.

00:41:55.000 --> 00:42:05.000
And it is thought that this is this this poor Italian boy. There's a big scandal going on at the time about there being a lot of young Italian beggars on the streets.

00:42:05.000 --> 00:42:11.000
Who are kind of fading like gangs and They don't have a lot of same what goes on.

00:42:11.000 --> 00:42:26.000
They're all under the control of their padrones this trial. the young Charles Dickens was a cub reporter on it at the trial he gets into every story at this era.

00:42:26.000 --> 00:42:38.000
If you possibly can. So yes, this lab would sit with some white mice in a cage and try and beg money.

00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:43.000
2 of the 3 you hanged in in 1,831 apparently the hanging.

00:42:43.000 --> 00:42:50.000
Somebody shouts, You should have been hanged years ago! which kind of some of the public knew what was going on.

00:42:50.000 --> 00:42:58.000
It had been happening for a long time, and the third was transported to Australia, but died on the way.

00:42:58.000 --> 00:43:06.000
One of them, the John John Bishop, was described as one of the best specimens at the Royal College of Surgeon had ever dissected.

00:43:06.000 --> 00:43:17.000
He was a good fit, fit person. Following that, they try again in Parliament and a new act.

00:43:17.000 --> 00:43:23.000
The Anatomy Act is written in 1,832, which is a little bit more subtle.

00:43:23.000 --> 00:43:31.000
It's still basically saying we'll we'll have the bodies of all kinds, please, but it's it's written in slightly subtler terms.

00:43:31.000 --> 00:43:34.000
It says things like Well, there are safeguards if you don't want it to happen.

00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:42.000
You can write it down that You don't want it to happen because, of course, the people were talking about world completely literate, and that's going to work very well.

00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:58.000
But, one of the main reasons this was passed was because they thought it would get rid of the need for anyone having to deal with the resurrectionists. and especially the need for people like Bishop may and Williams although there.

00:43:58.000 --> 00:44:04.000
are a few resurrectionists in business until the 1,800 fortys in this country.

00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:22.000
It it nose dives after that curiously the American golden age of grave digging is actually another generation or 2 further along, and he's all tied up with race as well, because it's about taking bodies from

00:44:22.000 --> 00:44:26.000
the negro graveyards, but that's a whole other story.

00:44:26.000 --> 00:44:31.000
So whiz through that in order to finish with a few minutes to spare for questions.

00:44:31.000 --> 00:44:35.000
So I hope you have some goodness. Thank you very much for that, Joe.

00:44:35.000 --> 00:44:51.000
That was a little bit macabre wasn't that everybody but absolutely I have to say, and I particularly enjoyed hearing a bit more about Burke and Hare in Edinburgh. I should add about The exhibition you can

00:44:51.000 --> 00:45:06.000
do. Yes, if anyone is in the Edinburgh area, there is this exhibition on the National Museum, Scotland, which is on till the end of October. I haven't been yet but It looks like It's going to be

00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:21.000
really good, and it has at it that skeleton and little pocketbook that you've just seen along with lots of other things about the history of anatomy and things people haven't haven't gone away with over the

00:45:21.000 --> 00:45:32.000
years while I remember. Right we've got quite a few questions, Joe. I'm just gonna launch straight and no let's where should we start?

00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:43.000
No, I think we'll start at the top actually because it sounds like the best place to start

00:45:43.000 --> 00:45:54.000
Sorry about this folks right from Miranda, and you talked about kind of near the start start about, you know, bodies being unusable after a period of time.

00:45:54.000 --> 00:45:59.000
How fresh did they have to be it's a tipping point!

00:45:59.000 --> 00:46:06.000
I see where it depends on the temperature. like I say this is why you don't do it in summer.

00:46:06.000 --> 00:46:22.000
If the ground is frozen, then then you might have you know a couple of weeks. if it's a very hot sunny day, you might have a couple of days window where possible they would actually go within I think people said that after 3 days

00:46:22.000 --> 00:46:29.000
it was a lot less likely, and after a week, unless it was frozen, you were probably safe.

00:46:29.000 --> 00:46:44.000
Alright. Okay, interesting. that answer your question Miranda similarly, we'll just might lead in as well James saying in a tail to cities snatchers worked at night and presumably that's when the old did it

00:46:44.000 --> 00:46:53.000
Yes, yes, if you look at Naples's diary he often describes, you know, we met in the pub in the evening, and then went out to do our work.

00:46:53.000 --> 00:46:56.000
You do wonder what that these people's families thought They were up to sometimes.

00:46:56.000 --> 00:47:03.000
Oh, yes, I have. I have a night shift job, darling, just not in the summer.

00:47:03.000 --> 00:47:11.000
Hmm! So some of them, some of them, sneakily got jobs as watchmen over corpses, because being a watchman is not a job.

00:47:11.000 --> 00:47:16.000
Many people want so you can say Oh, yes, i'll guard your corpse for you.

00:47:16.000 --> 00:47:23.000
No problem. Pay pay me to stand over it for the first 3 days, and then, of course, when nobody's watching you, just i'll steal it.

00:47:23.000 --> 00:47:32.000
Yeah. okay. I hope that answers your question, Gene question from Karen and Andrew about this idea of bodies.

00:47:32.000 --> 00:47:38.000
But being transported quite long distances London to Edinburgh.

00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:52.000
I over the cent. and how did they actually keep them fresh, or or they didn't didn't they Well, you you either pack them in something absorbent like straw or you put them in a barrel of oil of some

00:47:52.000 --> 00:47:58.000
description, or you can even go down in the Nelson where you can put them in a barrel of spirits.

00:47:58.000 --> 00:48:03.000
But that's quite expensive. So you're only going to do that if you've got a body that's worth quite a lot.

00:48:03.000 --> 00:48:09.000
But yeah, more commonly, you just packed and with straw and with

00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:17.000
Yeah. and and it's the best absorbent and percentage things you can think of put them in a box and put them on a royal mail coach.

00:48:17.000 --> 00:48:31.000
So, which are known to be quite fast, and you know it will be maybe 2 days up, 3 days up to Edinburgh, and that is within your window of possibility again.

00:48:31.000 --> 00:48:42.000
Not all of the cases of ones that are found in Newcastle because there's there's a pub in Newcastle That's a kind of stopping off point for the royal male coaches on the way and

00:48:42.000 --> 00:48:50.000
It binds, I think, at the news for over a fairly small period of time, and all of them in winter.

00:48:50.000 --> 00:49:03.000
Right. And now i've got a question from Stewart you had to list near the start of the lecture, which was basically the kind of shopping lists that they had in this one particular night.

00:49:03.000 --> 00:49:08.000
And all the bodies that they got there was a name mentioned.

00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:16.000
A woman, Miss Kay I don't think we do I it's it's one that I have pondered myself.

00:49:16.000 --> 00:49:21.000
I'm gonna go back and look at the most yeah pay Hollis.

00:49:21.000 --> 00:49:31.000
$11 are the order of Miss K. usual Doesn't say yes, I I don't think anything is known about her.

00:49:31.000 --> 00:49:42.000
Women are really generally not involved in this kind of thing, except, as I say, within gangs, as distractions, and the people who talk to the widow terribly, sympathetically, and so on.

00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:46.000
But that rather implies that there's a woman involved in the surgical practice.

00:49:46.000 --> 00:49:50.000
Now, at this date it is not illegal for a woman to be a surgeon.

00:49:50.000 --> 00:50:07.000
It's just getting increasingly difficult for them to get qualifications. But if you, if you'll say that the daughter of a surgeon, he has been brought up amongst surgeoning you could call yourself legally a

00:50:07.000 --> 00:50:12.000
surgeon and do the job, and no one can stop him.

00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:18.000
Until 1854. You can legally call yourself a doctor or a surgeon, with no particular qualifications at all.

00:50:18.000 --> 00:50:27.000
It's all right. them but in the case Miss kay i'm afraid I don't know. right Okay, and a question of the room.

00:50:27.000 --> 00:50:35.000
Diana, where the skeletons being sold kind of almost as a byproduct.

00:50:35.000 --> 00:50:39.000
Of the dissected bodies against what once they've done that move.

00:50:39.000 --> 00:50:44.000
Yeah, I mean sometimes the process of dissection is going to damage your skeleton too much.

00:50:44.000 --> 00:50:49.000
If you know, depending weak beats of it, you wanting to look at on that particular occasion.

00:50:49.000 --> 00:50:55.000
But if the particular dissection you're doing ends up without doing any damage to the bones, then yes, absolutely.

00:50:55.000 --> 00:51:00.000
You would then give that over to some

00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:08.000
So this is a replica of a trade card.

00:51:08.000 --> 00:51:22.000
Somebody who is selling these skeletons. and actually says you know, of both both sexes and good color accurately articulated, and must have been coming from somewhere.

00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:30.000
So. yeah, there must be some kind of deal going on because the skeleton isn't of much used to the surgeon once they've done a few.

00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:37.000
You know, learn how to cut an arm off, or whatever there are some that have been found around.

00:51:37.000 --> 00:51:47.000
What's the work house houses where the bodies are not all where they should be, and some of the bodies have sort of several experimental cut marks in them.

00:51:47.000 --> 00:51:55.000
Like somebody's learning how to saw through bone but you don't need that niece .

00:51:55.000 --> 00:52:03.000
Interesting. Okay. Question from Sue could put her.

00:52:03.000 --> 00:52:08.000
People sailed their body to the resurrectionists before they died.

00:52:08.000 --> 00:52:18.000
Yes, they very rarely do because it is considered, would be considered for most people to be very shameful.

00:52:18.000 --> 00:52:22.000
Having a decent funeral is very, very important to almost everybody.

00:52:22.000 --> 00:52:33.000
Even very poorest people spend money they don't have putting it into it into a savings fund in order to get a decent funeral, which is part of the way.

00:52:33.000 --> 00:52:43.000
Respectability works. But it does happen there is a satirical poem from this era, or about a chapel that sold his body to, because he knows he's dying.

00:52:43.000 --> 00:52:52.000
He sold his body to 10 different dissectionists. 10 different surgeons, and they're all fighting over him because they realize what he dies.

00:52:52.000 --> 00:52:58.000
They realize that they can't all have him and they end up getting him in bits and taking bits. each. There is

00:52:58.000 --> 00:53:04.000
There's a chat in newcastle who We know sold his body, and he is a deformed man.

00:53:04.000 --> 00:53:11.000
He's a hunched back and he says because he spent his life making surgical implements.

00:53:11.000 --> 00:53:18.000
He had made his living from them, and if they could you know he.

00:53:18.000 --> 00:53:29.000
He then sells himself. What he does is say, Okay, you dissect me, and then enough money comes back to my family to give the bits that are left a decent funeral.

00:53:29.000 --> 00:53:36.000
One way of doing it mutually beneficial but it's not common, because there is this belief.

00:53:36.000 --> 00:53:47.000
It's not orthodox catholic church dogma by this point. but there is still a strong belief amongst the poor that on the day last Judgment, when you raise up you need all your bits to be there or i'll

00:53:47.000 --> 00:53:59.000
still be problem right? Okay? No. Another question just to me. What about the belief that on the final day judgment corpses would be released from their grades?

00:53:59.000 --> 00:54:05.000
If your body had been dissected, or stolen you could not be judged. And thus your chances are going to happen.

00:54:05.000 --> 00:54:10.000
We're? No, Yeah, that's i'm talking about that.

00:54:10.000 --> 00:54:22.000
This is why I said one of the reasons on top of demand why dissection? and Gibbon are so set up in the 1,700 fiftys as a punishment because it's worse than just being

00:54:22.000 --> 00:54:28.000
murdered. And what can you do to someone? to make the more phrase than they would be of just being executed?

00:54:28.000 --> 00:54:35.000
You execute them, and you mess with their body and that's worse a part of that to do with other things.

00:54:35.000 --> 00:54:48.000
But a big aspect of that is because people might well believe even though the Church says this isn't true anymore. you might well believe that it means that your your body won't be brought up properly.

00:54:48.000 --> 00:54:58.000
There's a a satirical cartoon of from the time of a bunch of people getting up in a pauper graveyard after the last, where, after the last trumpet sounds all kind of saying Well, this isn't my ankle has anyone

00:54:58.000 --> 00:55:05.000
got my hand because they've been put together. in the wrong graves, and all kind of mixed up

00:55:05.000 --> 00:55:14.000
Therefore, on the day of last judgment they can't find all their pieces, all. and there are people who genuinely believe that that would be an issue.

00:55:14.000 --> 00:55:18.000
Right question from Andrew. i've got quite a lot questions here.

00:55:18.000 --> 00:55:26.000
Presumably and hopefully not covered this already, but presumably the term Burke, meaning to kill a dish, was adopted after bax antics were revealed.

00:55:26.000 --> 00:55:32.000
It wasn't just a goodly coincidence nominative determinant.

00:55:32.000 --> 00:55:38.000
No, no, it comes afterwards. it's a rare example of a person's name being turned into an into a verb.

00:55:38.000 --> 00:55:42.000
Hmm! A lot of words named after people, but the vast majority of them are nouns.

00:55:42.000 --> 00:55:45.000
Book is is what he did so it's a Verb: Yeah.

00:55:45.000 --> 00:55:52.000
Well, there you go, Andrew. Okay. no A question from another Andrew.

00:55:52.000 --> 00:55:56.000
Is the time the graveyard shift connected to grave Robin.

00:55:56.000 --> 00:56:00.000
Don't but believe so I can't tell you off the top of my head.

00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:06.000
But I don't I don't think so i've never seen it kind of written in the same in the same place.

00:56:06.000 --> 00:56:13.000
I think it's just doing shifts that are quiet as the grave doc, is the grave.

00:56:13.000 --> 00:56:23.000
A question for man, and so obviously resurrection the resurrection men, would I blood.

00:56:23.000 --> 00:56:26.000
So how? How did the surgeons learn to dissect?

00:56:26.000 --> 00:56:40.000
After that, what happens? What happened next? Okay, I mean after that it isn't that dissectioned that the rosary projectionists are outlawed as that they become unnecessary because with the anatomy act there are easier

00:56:40.000 --> 00:56:54.000
ways of getting hold of bodies. The Anatomy Act says that any any person that dies and is unclaimed it within 48 h becomes the property of the surgeons.

00:56:54.000 --> 00:56:58.000
Now this mostly applies to people in workhouses you don't have any relatives.

00:56:58.000 --> 00:57:03.000
No, he turns up to say, we will take this person away and bury them.

00:57:03.000 --> 00:57:07.000
But it could just apply to people from clown dead on the street.

00:57:07.000 --> 00:57:19.000
If nobody claims you within 48 h then you belong to the resurrectionists and that there are right. It's about that. There are, you know, a lot of poor people who don't like that especially since it coincides with the first

00:57:19.000 --> 00:57:24.000
cholera outbreak. So a lot of people are not in a position to go collecting bodies.

00:57:24.000 --> 00:57:37.000
So there are riots across the country and sort of fuss when Oh, but you've only waited 40 h, and that was our grandma, and you've taken them illegally, and things like that but in general it make

00:57:37.000 --> 00:57:43.000
means that there are sufficient corpses to go round to, unless the anatomists want something very specific.

00:57:43.000 --> 00:57:48.000
So that person has an interesting medical complaint. I want to dissect them.

00:57:48.000 --> 00:57:55.000
Then there's not really any money in it anymore right Okay, So got a few questions here.

00:57:55.000 --> 00:58:03.000
So Okay, we've done that one and Yes, and You're talking about the surgeons hall. Museum and Edinburgh.

00:58:03.000 --> 00:58:09.000
I can highly recommend it. Yes, the the book can. The skeleton of Buck are usually housed there.

00:58:09.000 --> 00:58:15.000
I actually went there last year, and had a good look at own, not for the squeamish.

00:58:15.000 --> 00:58:18.000
I have to say that some is well worth a look if you're interested.

00:58:18.000 --> 00:58:24.000
Right? Okay. But some questions from Jennifer.

00:58:24.000 --> 00:58:31.000
Did some bodies have a premium price, and was there a demand at all for children and babies?

00:58:31.000 --> 00:58:38.000
There isn't particular interest in children, and babies again unless they have some other particularly interesting quality.

00:58:38.000 --> 00:58:42.000
Bear in mind that this is an era where you know the number of people that die below the 80.

00:58:42.000 --> 00:58:49.000
5, anyway, is quite staggering so it's easier to get over the body of a four-year-old.

00:58:49.000 --> 00:58:54.000
As it happens, there are premiums on unusual specimens.

00:58:54.000 --> 00:59:04.000
The body of was his name, Charles Burn, the the Irish giant, who is 7 foot tall or so.

00:59:04.000 --> 00:59:13.000
His his family and friends go to great lengths to try and keep him away from the dissectionists, because they know that he is worth a lot of money.

00:59:13.000 --> 00:59:17.000
They attempt to take him out and dump him at sea to avoid it.

00:59:17.000 --> 00:59:27.000
And Unfortunately, the people along the way braver sexton and he doesn't that doesn't happen and again his body was on display.

00:59:27.000 --> 00:59:29.000
His dissected and his skeleton L on display.

00:59:29.000 --> 00:59:37.000
Until really quite recently. So something like that there is enough money available. Yeah, that was willing.

00:59:37.000 --> 00:59:46.000
And John Hunton. I managed to not mention throughout the whole of this, despite them being some spiders in the middle of the whole web of anatomy.

00:59:46.000 --> 00:59:52.000
At this era, wanted his skeleton for their collection, and wanted to dissect him so.

00:59:52.000 --> 00:59:55.000
Yes, anything really unusual like that and those extra money team.

00:59:55.000 --> 01:00:04.000
Yeah, okay, we've got bits here. for more questions. So I think we'll try and get through them all and Joe. if that's okay and okay with everybody else. after that.

01:00:04.000 --> 01:00:07.000
Then we're just yeah again and then then we're done.

01:00:07.000 --> 01:00:14.000
Okay, So from Elizabeth she recently took her old medical student skeleton to the Oxford Andatom School.

01:00:14.000 --> 01:00:21.000
Apparently it came from India. we're apparently dead bodies we're fished out of the ganges.

01:00:21.000 --> 01:00:24.000
Does this still happen. I don't know if that's something that you would know.

01:00:24.000 --> 01:00:29.000
I think generally they don't use real ones anymore in lenses like that.

01:00:29.000 --> 01:00:33.000
They you can make very good fakes these days. so I think there isn't really the need for it.

01:00:33.000 --> 01:00:37.000
Hmm. Okay. from Sylvia. What did the doctors do?

01:00:37.000 --> 01:00:40.000
The corpses after they had been studied and dissected.

01:00:40.000 --> 01:00:47.000
Well, suppose we saw that pale of bones under the house didn't I bury them sometimes?

01:00:47.000 --> 01:00:53.000
Yeah, if there's enough bits, then you can sell a bits to someone, put them in your little glass jars for your museum.

01:00:53.000 --> 01:00:57.000
If you found some particularly nice bits and bury what's left where you hope no one will find it.

01:00:57.000 --> 01:01:03.000
Okay. Now, this is actually a an interesting question. actually, in a quite an important one.

01:01:03.000 --> 01:01:11.000
Actually, and from Sue. what was the risk of disease for the robbers?

01:01:11.000 --> 01:01:25.000
Hi. Well, I think this is one of the reasons why you taught why you are part of the funeral procession, and you you listen to the the grieving relatives, and you find out whether or not that person seems to have died of an

01:01:25.000 --> 01:01:33.000
infectious disease. You don't go digging them up if you think they do a smallpox which is going to reduce the risk.

01:01:33.000 --> 01:01:50.000
Someone graves were so overflowing in urban areas at this point, anyway, that just just walking through them, we were quite likely to catch something, so to that extent it would just be an occupational risk this is still an area where

01:01:50.000 --> 01:01:55.000
the are pulling teeth and putting them straight into other humans, and the teeth can cause disease.

01:01:55.000 --> 01:02:01.000
If you end up with a as a civilis can survive inside a tooth, and then get put into another person's mouth.

01:02:01.000 --> 01:02:10.000
But yeah, you would tend to try and take the bodies of people who are died from things that would contagious if you had the choice.

01:02:10.000 --> 01:02:17.000
Yeah, okay, right? One more question, and then and then We'll we'll start to wrap things up everybody and from David's.

01:02:17.000 --> 01:02:26.000
Why would they call the resurrectionists, when the body is still dead? That's a good point, isn't it.

01:02:26.000 --> 01:02:31.000
It's just one of those things the body is still dead but it is being raised up.

01:02:31.000 --> 01:02:37.000
They bring them up back up into the living world, I suppose, even though they are still dead.

01:02:37.000 --> 01:02:40.000
And yeah there's never any thought that there's any life left in them.

01:02:40.000 --> 01:02:57.000
It's just now. Do you know what else would you call them just one of those slang things that happens Okay, Well, I think that's us for tonight.
 

00:00:06.000 --> 00:00:13.000
Bob. Okay, Thank you. Good evening. Everyone.

00:00:13.000 --> 00:00:22.000
Last time I was on it was, Bring that book as a story.

00:00:22.000 --> 00:00:39.000
Wojtek the bear was a true story which adapted into a graphic novel with my wife, and it seemed to go down very well, so I thought i'll tell you a few more animal stories over the past 5

00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:59.000
6, 7 years I've ended up doing not one but 3 books based on true stories about animals of war, one of which was this: one Gustav Debris hold that up a bit higher. Bob I don't think we could

00:00:59.000 --> 00:01:02.000
quite see that and hold it in front of you our back.

00:01:02.000 --> 00:01:19.000
Get items is a exciting that which is like everybody is. We'll make sure you've got the names of those books afterwards alongside the recording right?

00:01:19.000 --> 00:01:32.000
So. Yes, this is true story about a pigeon on d-day, and it was commissioned by the d-day Story Museum reports, and I was working on that in 2,019.

00:01:32.000 --> 00:01:38.000
And there was even, I think. Can you see that they even just a cuddly to to go with the book?

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So it was a book for children, that one, and going slightly further back was another book.

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Did about a cat that was found by a soldier from the Manchester regiment on the very first day of the battle of the Somme.

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And as it's international cat week we all cat day was it the other day we thought we'd make cats the headline act today.

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So we're not third with you I will go into screen share

00:02:16.000 --> 00:02:30.000
So okay. So that was the book I talked about last time the story of we checked about these 2 have done subsequently.

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I thought, that started with just a general look at how animals have been involved.

00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:40.000
It was down the center. it's going all the way back if you go to Hyde Park today.

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There is a monument in one corner of the park to animals who have served and died in the 2 world wars.

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Large numbers of them, and the seals so there's camels and all sorts of things.

00:02:52.000 --> 00:03:11.000
Lamas, I think even in there. so I suppose the animal we most associate with war is, has always been the horse going back way back into antiquity, into the times of all the way back to ancient Egypt, where the battle of

00:03:11.000 --> 00:03:15.000
Kadesh. The Egyptians used cause this to draw their chariots.

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Coming forward a bit further. You know the battle of the Hastings, which was one by the Norman cavalry.

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Defeating the Saxons at the battle of hastings and I suppose that's always been one of the issues about horses.

00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:36.000
Is this? it's infantry against cavalry and that was always dominated.

00:03:36.000 --> 00:03:42.000
Warfare which one is that has the more impact on the battlefield.

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Cavalry tend is always to be rather more glamorous looking.

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You know the regiments or whatever. but the infantry could often come out on top more often than not.

00:03:52.000 --> 00:03:58.000
So the battle of Cressy, the English Bowman defeated the French Knights and the cat.

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Their charges and that I suppose it's been the issue coming forward.

00:04:03.000 --> 00:04:15.000
I mean i've got picture of oliver Cromwell here, with his iron side to played a key role in the defeat of the King in the left, in the battles of Master Moore and Nasby and so

00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:24.000
forth It's always been accepted the infantry if they are well drilled, and can keep their formation can always repel cavalry.

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Coverry could seldom win battles on their own.

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But nevertheless, there have been ages where the cavalry have played a key role in in in in this, even a victory, and I suppose the napoleonic wars were the last really of the period where

00:04:41.000 --> 00:04:49.000
cavalry challenges could turn. a battle could actually make a difference on the battlefield.

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No, that the Royal Scott's Grays achieved anything like that of the battle of Waterloo.

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They managed to overcome some French artillery, and then almost entirely wiped out by a countercharge by the French cavalry.

00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:14.000
But I think there was a realization that infantry, increasingly with a more important element of any army, and the proportion of infantry to cavalry, the tends to sort of move more in effect favor of

00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:19.000
infantry coming forward a little bit nearer to the back.

00:05:19.000 --> 00:05:25.000
Say the charge at Bala Clava. The charge of the Light Brigade just shows how increasingly cavalry were playing.

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A more peripheral role in the battle, their role increasingly one of reconnoitering.

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And so for scouting

00:05:43.000 --> 00:05:49.000
So coming back to the napoleonic world i've always been fascinated by this portrait.

00:05:49.000 --> 00:05:54.000
By Jacques livid, showing the Napoleon crossing the same, burnt some Bernoulli past.

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Napoleon had recently come back from Egypt.

00:05:57.000 --> 00:06:06.000
His failed campaign there the time when France was losing a lot of the Territories that they've blown during the Revolutionary

00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:15.000
He leads a coup to become first console, and it immediately goes to war to try to restore some of the territories that have been lost in Northern.

00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:21.000
Italy, and he does this by crossing the outs to come down behind the Austrian armies.

00:06:21.000 --> 00:06:29.000
And ultimately wins the battle of Marango and restore some French control of Northern Italy.

00:06:29.000 --> 00:06:38.000
So Jack Louie Devi painted this fine acquaintance, questioning portrait of him, apparently crossing the Alps.

00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:50.000
I always found it interesting that a laser painter Paul della Rosh, who was very much a disciple of Jacqueline David, and if you're not familiar with him as an artist, if you've

00:06:50.000 --> 00:07:01.000
been to the National Gallery. There's that painting of the execution of Lady Jane Grey that is Della Rosh and Della Rosh takes a slightly different approach.

00:07:01.000 --> 00:07:07.000
To Napoleon. He shows him instead, mounted on a mule, which is what he would have been to cross.

00:07:07.000 --> 00:07:12.000
See out something That Delaware has shown some cavalry behind. But in fact, the French army couldn't take horses.

00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:23.000
They had to drag their cannons, and no none of the cavalry could come. and so it's a it's a rather different, more truthful portrait, and it shows how horses are not the only equines

00:07:23.000 --> 00:07:30.000
that have served in war and mules had an importance out of all significance in things like that.

00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:44.000
The Peninsula one in particular. So if we come into the twentieth century yes, you still had the occasional cavalry charge in the early days of the first World War.

00:07:44.000 --> 00:08:02.000
But this soon changed as trench welfare, and very much a stalemate changed. The battlefield, and cavalry were constantly just in reserve for this great breakthrough that would occur but never did until 21,009

00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:06.000
118, and even then cavalry played only a minor role.

00:08:06.000 --> 00:08:21.000
And so suppose it's, horses still had an incredible role to play, as she could see. the British army alone used well over a 1 million horses as well, are other acquaint animals.

00:08:21.000 --> 00:08:26.000
Mules and donkeys all sorts it's interesting.

00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:33.000
That picture on the left. There you can see some motorized transport in the in the background, but it's the mules struggling through them.

00:08:33.000 --> 00:08:42.000
The the the mud of passion down. so horses retained an incredible importance in the world.

00:08:42.000 --> 00:08:55.000
Wars, even though we were moving into a mechanized day, and of course, being British, we have sympathized with these these poor animals.

00:08:55.000 --> 00:09:02.000
The Blue Cross at the been set up in 1,900, and really came into its own during the war.

00:09:02.000 --> 00:09:06.000
Where, you see, there are various appeals to save animals.

00:09:06.000 --> 00:09:17.000
Horses in particular, suffered in the war i'm not sure about the countries, but quite so dedicated to the care of their animals.

00:09:17.000 --> 00:09:25.000
So as we come towards the Second World war mechanization has become ever greater, and I finally, it is old to that.

00:09:25.000 --> 00:09:43.000
The army that we consider the who created mechanized warfare the German Vermont actually largely use horses they just simply couldn't equip all their infantry divisions with motorized

00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:50.000
vehicles, and so they They remained committed to using horses.

00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:57.000
The Panzer divisions, which were fully motorized, accounted for only maybe 25% of the total wemark.

00:09:57.000 --> 00:10:10.000
So the information divisions relied heavily on losses, and you can see throughout the war, even rising up to 1 point, 1 million total of 2 point, 7 5 million horses.

00:10:10.000 --> 00:10:23.000
Even in the final stages, I mean, you can see how the German army must have struggled fighting against the the the allied powers that were by now entirely recognized.

00:10:23.000 --> 00:10:31.000
Their infantry divisions were often left struggling

00:10:31.000 --> 00:10:40.000
So the 2 world was also increasing use of other animals in the first world.

00:10:40.000 --> 00:10:48.000
Why, certainly. yeah, that was the camel call came to be in fighting in Egypt and Palestine against the text.

00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:57.000
I don't know how successful they were and dogs have always had a role in war.

00:10:57.000 --> 00:11:10.000
You could have found this. This is a Belgian machine gun team, and their machine guns will hold a lot by dogs

00:11:10.000 --> 00:11:14.000
And dogs. We used to carry messages let's see a brave dog.

00:11:14.000 --> 00:11:20.000
There pounding back, deliver a message to bring down our artillery.

00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:27.000
They are also used to find wounded soldiers and you can See, they're carry medical aid and .

00:11:27.000 --> 00:11:40.000
We won't even we're in a gas mask so they had multiple roles, huge numbers of dogs with work brought into the army slightly darker use of dogs by the red army.

00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:53.000
They would use dogs. You could see the dog on the left, so they the dog, would be carrying a a amount of explosives, and that lever on the top.

00:11:53.000 --> 00:12:02.000
They were trained to run underneath tanks, and the moment the the lever was knocked down the dog would blow up and hopefully blow the tang up

00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:09.000
And this they use quite a lot of dogs to do this training them up.

00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:14.000
Okay, I don't think I couldn't see the British army ever doing anything like this?

00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:21.000
It's something curiously Russian about this these poor dogs

00:12:21.000 --> 00:12:25.000
And a cool pigeon. Now pigeons really came into their own.

00:12:25.000 --> 00:12:33.000
In in both world wars, particularly the first World war. basically carry a pigeons message.

00:12:33.000 --> 00:12:41.000
Messenger pigeons that could be trained to bring that messages so units front will have pigeons with them.

00:12:41.000 --> 00:12:49.000
That would be brought later. it would release them. They fly back to their base, and then messages could be telephoned on.

00:12:49.000 --> 00:13:06.000
From there. I never even used to do a real photography There's a fine pigeon there with his camera popl up with that one over the thoughts trying to get a decent phone photographs, but they were used

00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:12.000
and of course, as pigeons became more more used, much more widespread.

00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:18.000
It meant the opposition will increasingly start to use falcons and hawks to bring them down.

00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:28.000
So you've got this curious aerial warfare going on quite separate to planes, and so forth. Both sides tries to bring down the other sides.

00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:35.000
Pigeons. how you tell which is a friend or or a foe pigeon I don't know.

00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:43.000
So. Yes, this is how I came to produce this particular. As I say, this was the commissioned by the

00:13:43.000 --> 00:13:47.000
The d-day Story Museum in Portsmouth.

00:13:47.000 --> 00:13:52.000
Very, very fine museum. I was very impressed by it when I got finally to visit it.

00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:59.000
I think it. it compares very well to the d-day museums you find dotted all over Normandy.

00:13:59.000 --> 00:14:04.000
I thought it was far better the way the story it told so it's a children's book.

00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:14.000
So the Wide Age range and the words were written by a poet and writer steep to say, working with a number of local children.

00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:22.000
So it's a curious poem that runs through the story, and I I was given sort of can't blanche to illustrate the poem.

00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:34.000
I feel best so. Gustav was one of a quarter of 1 million pigeons in listed by Britain in World War 2.

00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:39.000
In his case. he went into the Raf. he was on raf Pigeon done the.

00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:46.000
They gave him Raf roundles, and you can see I mean, this is our created the same where he comes into the Raf.

00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:53.000
And so on to his. His leg is a little name tag and a little canister.

00:14:53.000 --> 00:15:07.000
I would have that for the duration of the war, and in that kind of St. little messages could be could be placed, and he saw quite a bit of active service in 1,943.

00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:13.000
He was actually parachuted into Belgium, where he was then used by Belgium resistance.

00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:22.000
I don't know how they coordinated this but yeah, you see his little parachute bringing him down, and he brought back messages from it.

00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:30.000
Belgian resistance to London, says Quo, quite extensively used, I mean, you know.

00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:49.000
Suppose a lot safer. Again the Germans were aware that this was going on, and they are corks, and so forth stationed, and they would be looking out for pigeons crossing, trying attempting to cross the Channel very really came into his own was on d-day. He was allocated to a

00:15:49.000 --> 00:16:02.000
royalist journalist not to give Taylor and so he was on board one of the ships that form part of the Armada, crossing over 2 to France.

00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:12.000
The There was a radio throughout, and in particular with the press they couldn't be sort of telephone in or sending messages back to London.

00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:17.000
And so this is where they begin. carrier pigeons and they're there quite a few.

00:16:17.000 --> 00:16:23.000
They about 20, I think, in total to to send messages back, and the first one to be released.

00:16:23.000 --> 00:16:29.000
Once. the press has been told that the the landings have begun and the initial land in seem to be okay.

00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:34.000
And then they said anything about the problems on Omaha Beach necessarily.

00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:41.000
But So Montcue Taylor took out good stuff and put a message inside.

00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:46.000
Yes, Dede has begun. We have landed troops in Northern France.

00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:54.000
He was then released, and he made his way back to his home. Raf.

00:16:54.000 --> 00:17:02.000
On the island, which is no far from Portsmouth, just outside Portsmouth, and Harry F.

00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:09.000
Base various sort of fighters, typhones, and spitfires are taken off from sort of round or around the clock.

00:17:09.000 --> 00:17:16.000
So he did the 150 miles in just 5 h and 16 min, and it's it's sort of you know.

00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:23.000
You have to recall. I mean pigeons, I mean, I get lots of wood pigeons in my garden, and they just need to be fat things waddling around.

00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:42.000
But they have an incredible endurance to get a fly huge distances. i'm sorry he brought word back and within by the evening the message was in the newspapers the evening newspapers

00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:53.000
So as a result they decided to present him, and another pitching called Paddy, who had also been released with the Dick in medal.

00:17:53.000 --> 00:18:02.000
This had come into being in 1943 it was a medal specifically for animals who had served in the war, and you could.

00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:09.000
There's this is a still from a piece of film showing the award ceremony, where Mrs.

00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:14.000
Alexander worked for the First Lord of the Admiralty, presented the pigeons with their medals.

00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:22.000
I can recommend this. I mean, you can Google if you Google good stuff to pigeon you, this will come up.

00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:25.000
You know, recommend it. it's like something out of monty python.

00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:30.000
It is so bizarre, and you can see on the left, is it was Sergeant Harry Hol season.

00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:35.000
You got Corporal Stripes on there. But he was a Gustav minder.

00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:40.000
Some confusion over what happened to to Gustav.

00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:47.000
Eventually there was one story that he was troubled on and died, but I didn't know if that was true. that seems to be some to bad date.

00:18:47.000 --> 00:18:58.000
Debate over that. So this thing the the dickin medal yeah. it's been warded retrospectively.

00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:03.000
It was decided to reward it to an animal from the First World War, just to mark that.

00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:11.000
And so this horse was the one given that i'm not quite sure what he did.

00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:22.000
But yeah, so it's it's been awarded ever since, to various animals

00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:30.000
It brings us to our main act. Cats which you might not think would be animals.

00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:47.000
You would associate with war. But I suppose in particular, in the First World War they came into their own here, actually, half a 1 million cats were conscripted it just into the British army alone, and sent out to the trenches

00:19:47.000 --> 00:20:01.000
to try to keep down vice and rats, which, obviously with static warfare and been in the trenches, were a constant plague.

00:20:01.000 --> 00:20:07.000
So cats, and to some extent dogs as Well, were also used extensively to try and keep the rodents at bay.

00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:15.000
And there's one such cat looking very preamed and yeah sorry sure of himself.

00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:21.000
I'm i'm would imagine the am that they were not just seen as working animals.

00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:31.000
That the soldiers would have that's quite a lot of affection for these these creatures that were living with next one.

00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:39.000
Certainly is being stroked and looked after, and certainly cats turn up in.

00:20:39.000 --> 00:20:52.000
Gar garris love, Hassex, the good soldier Spike, where at 1 point he starts talking about how the the Austro-hungarian army also reintroduced the rank of cat into the into the army, and

00:20:52.000 --> 00:21:18.000
like himself, has some some dealings with cats during the book. So i'm just gonna stop the share for a second

00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:25.000
Yeah, just talk about how this particular book some cat came into being.

00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:35.000
It goes back I I. Several years earlier I had been traveling in France, and I was in the town of Alva.

00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:50.000
See this, but It's disappearing but it's a it's a German helmet, which I found in a shop in the town of Albert Albert is by the song and It must have been the most fault over

00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:59.000
town in France. It changed down several times across the war before eventually being captured.

00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:05.000
Recaptured in 1980 by by the British, actually Australians at recaptured.

00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:13.000
It, and I thought this helmet and I was I wanted to try and do a story based around it, and I just just put it one side.

00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:26.000
I thought, Yeah, it'd be nice try and use that as a sort of inspiration for a story to illustrate, and couple years went by, and as we approached 2,014, I was became aware that a lot of primary schools in

00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:31.000
particular, were getting very interested in the centenary of the First World War.

00:22:31.000 --> 00:22:37.000
So with a friend. Andy, Messer, we decided to put together an activity day.

00:22:37.000 --> 00:22:40.000
Just so really bring home what the First World War was all about.

00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:44.000
And so yeah, we acquired uniforms. I became the officer.

00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:48.000
He was my sergeant Major, and we used to go into primary schools and all over the place.

00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:53.000
Actually and recruit the children into a Powers battalion.

00:22:53.000 --> 00:23:04.000
We do all sorts of training with them. and then we used to build this trench out of boxes and all sorts of things with fo barb wire and get them to go over the top basically

00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:10.000
But across the dead we needed to sort of vary it the bit, and I decided to try to tell them a story.

00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:25.000
While I was giving some extra research on the battle, of the song i'd come across this story about a kitten that was found by a Soldier in the Museum regiment, So will that be ideal that little will interest the

00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:36.000
children. And so I basically did a load of sketches to Service Powerpoint as a background to the story, and it went down very well.

00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:41.000
It was about 1015 min story we do just before lunchtime, and the children seem to really like it.

00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:48.000
About this the story about this kitten. So it was based on true story.

00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:58.000
Based on the account by Paddy kennedy and soldier in the Manchester regiment, and the only thing I changed was the name of the cat, which wasn't really appropriate.

00:23:58.000 --> 00:24:03.000
It was a black capped kitten that he found and had a name begin with end.

00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:06.000
So I decided to change that, and instead we made our cap.

00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:09.000
The ginger, Tom, and he was going to be called Tommy.

00:24:09.000 --> 00:24:22.000
Aside from that, the story of what Patty Kennedy went through with this kitten that became a cat grew up to be a cat is truthful. But I decided to take the story backwards.

00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:26.000
How did this kitten end up in the German frontline trenches?

00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:32.000
And so had to invent this tree story of it German soldier that finds him.

00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:40.000
So that's the background to it. It It was never published It's never been published.

00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:52.000
This book I just printed a load of copies and I used to just leave a copy with the school with when we were in a particular school, so it's not a book that's been published, and the drawer the the illustrations are quite rough

00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:59.000
and ready. They are really a lot. Most of them is just penciled, or I did very quickly.

00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:09.000
So

00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:12.000
It is so. Yeah, it was created round about 2,015.

00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:20.000
I think this 2,014

00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:26.000
And I will. Yeah, just very briefly tell you the story.

00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:36.000
So the story starts. We see a German regiment moving towards the front line.

00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:46.000
Adjacent to the the song area now, the Germans at this point. We're now 2 years into the war.

00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:58.000
It's been a war of stalemates since the autumn of 1,914, and the Germans are aware that the British army has been building up in strength in northern the northern part of the front line

00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:03.000
in France and Belgium, and that a major offensive is about is due.

00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:15.000
So they were bringing in reserves. The Germans themselves had largely decided to concentrate their efforts at trying to win the war in the East, and so they were fighting much more of a defensive war on the western front.

00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:35.000
Apart from the battle of done so as part of this unit moving up to the front, I decided to create this character Auto, who made the carpenter, and he came from Silesia and like all Germans Germany young man

00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:43.000
did his national service, and so, when the war broke out, he was recorded to his regiment the 20 Third Infantry Regiment,

00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:50.000
Shortly after the outbreak of war, Now this then became part of the German twelfth Division, and was serving.

00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:59.000
It's an actual unit serving on the southernmost part of where the British offensive on the song was going to be launched. I'm.

00:26:59.000 --> 00:27:11.000
Not sort of quite reasonable. the ability to somewhere in the French village, this, or basically sleeping in the barn and at the back of the barn he suddenly finds, comes across the cat that's just had a litter of kittens

00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:18.000
and he decides to adopt one so we've seen how cats we could see in is quite useful at the front line.

00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:23.000
So if they're going to be going into the frontline trenches, why don't they take their own cat with them?

00:27:23.000 --> 00:27:29.000
And so they adopt this kitten, and he goes into the front line.

00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:38.000
But he is still just a kitten and you could maybe see that he's some kind of company, mascot as well a unit mascot.

00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:43.000
Yeah, So for the few weeks while they're there before the offensive starts.

00:27:43.000 --> 00:27:55.000
They live a fairly normal life and there's a sort of fairly typical German trench that German trends were much more sophisticated than the British and French trenches.

00:27:55.000 --> 00:28:00.000
They decided that we're on the defensive and so they went to great lengths to make them as strong as possible.

00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:20.000
Something the British weren't aware of so certainly when the British begin with this enormous bomb bombardment nearly over a week before the actual attack, and the Germans head towards their bunkers.

00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:32.000
Now these bunkers, as I say, the British weren't aware of how deep the Germans have built these bunkers, and it also built, and with reinforced concrete, the British are pounding away with their

00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:41.000
artillery for day upon day thinking. Oh, we'd have blown the German frontline to bits. in fact, they had comparatively little impact.

00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:46.000
Most of these German bunkers survived in time. A few finally gave out.

00:28:46.000 --> 00:29:06.000
Mostly they they survived, Nevertheless, it probably was quite a traumatic time spent under this incredible bombardment that was coming down where they couldn't really get out very easily to go and get fresh provisions, and then finally on the

00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:14.000
first of July. The bombardment ends and the Germans now know that the British are going to be coming.

00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:17.000
They're going to be leaving their trenches to come into the attack.

00:29:17.000 --> 00:29:21.000
And so the Germans, and immediately head up to their trenches.

00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:28.000
And so our little kitten is named rudy in my story.

00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:41.000
It's just left behind to nuttle down in this Bunker and the gentleman's head up into what's left of their trenches, which would have been battered to pieces and take up their position and

00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:48.000
make it immediately see the British infantry advancing towards them.

00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:55.000
So this is where my story now switches to become a real real story.

00:29:55.000 --> 00:29:59.000
I mean it's the story of paddy Kennedy, essentially born, 1,890.

00:29:59.000 --> 00:30:14.000
3 his father. They were an Irish family. His father had served in the role in skill in fusel ears, and when he finished service there, the family which moved around quite a lot because they were in barracks that settled in

00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:20.000
Manchester, and he got a clerical Officer's job and a cotton exporter in Manchester.

00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:27.000
Now he He seems about a little bit of a dalliance with the Ira traveling back to Ireland to see from members of his family.

00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:31.000
He seems to have got involved in sort of Republican politics a bit.

00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:47.000
But back in Manchester, when the war breaks out of his friends and colleagues in in these warehouses in Manchester, all flock to the recruiting stations and to to join what become

00:30:47.000 --> 00:30:55.000
the Manchester powers that's free but full 4 battalions were raised in total from the warehousement.

00:30:55.000 --> 00:31:01.000
These these powers were Italians, people for them, a common workplaces, and so forth.

00:31:01.000 --> 00:31:13.000
And they, as they are officially the eighteenth service. battalion, and in the integrated into the Manchester regiment, and become part of this British thirtieth division.

00:31:13.000 --> 00:31:18.000
And so Tidy Kennedy this period of time training.

00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:25.000
And eventually they transfer over to France to go into the front line.

00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:38.000
And so yeah, on the first of July the 20 sixth, 1,916 had Kennedy finds himself going over the top in one of the first waves to go into the attack.

00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:42.000
You the full of account of this he actually shouldn't have been there.

00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:47.000
He actually belonged. Well, he was with was a completely different battalion.

00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:59.000
His battalion was actually in reserve, but a number of them have been designated to bring up mortar shells to the front line to sort of help support the attack.

00:31:59.000 --> 00:32:08.000
So this party that we're bringing up these shells Suddenly one of these shells went off by mistake, and half the party were were killed out or wounded by by the explosion.

00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:18.000
Including the commanding officer. So Patty Kennedy now finds himself in a front-line trench which is rapidly filling up the troops on another unit.

00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:27.000
And here in the surviving mates thing but what do we do if we don't go over the top Now we're going to be assumed by the military police that we're deserted.

00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:35.000
So they decide what the better thing to do is to actually go over the top with the this other unit, and so that's what they did.

00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:45.000
He goes into the attack when he shouldn't have been there, and very soon he finds himself crossing no man's, lad.

00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:51.000
Now I don't know how much you know about the first one world but the overriding thing it the first day of the battle.

00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:58.000
The sum was an absolute total disaster. The darkest day imaginable in the British Army's history.

00:32:58.000 --> 00:33:03.000
And along most of this front line these units stepped out.

00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:09.000
Think in the German trenches have been a obliterated and there would be no opposition to be machine done down.

00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:15.000
And and units were basically, you know, decimated destroyed you know, before they even got anywhere.

00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:28.000
Sometimes they didn't even got beyond their own frontline trench. But Patty Kennedy wouldn't have been aware of this, but because actually, on his part of the front, the attack actually went very well.

00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:39.000
This particular car, the the thirteenth, call the commander there decided he didn't like a lot of the instructions that had been sent about just walking, and not waiting till the guns had finished.

00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:46.000
He had act. They had actually decided to send out troops quickly before the bombardment finished.

00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:59.000
When they did attack they would run they wouldn't just walk. So what happens is the thirtieth division actually has quite a bit success, and then very quickly overrun the German trenches.

00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:02.000
And so this is where I decide. I have to kill off Otto.

00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:08.000
My my German soldier the hand grenade does for him, and he and his helmet.

00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:15.000
Now there's some debate over where the germans had the the metal helmet at this stage.

00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:25.000
Certainly it's introduced around about now and replaced the the pickle harb that the the hat with the the smike on the top.

00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:28.000
But it's thought that the German units on the first day of battle.

00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:33.000
Some probably didn't have either they were wearing basically just that forage caps.

00:34:33.000 --> 00:34:38.000
But anyway, I decided I wanted to get my helmet is one way or the other.

00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:44.000
So Paddy Kennedy with a lot of these other British soldiers. They take possession of the German trenches and he's.

00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:50.000
Looking around, and suddenly he finds a dugout, one of these deep, deep dugouts.

00:34:50.000 --> 00:35:01.000
The British Army Didn't know anything about and you can imagine he peers down into this darkness, and you can think well what's going through his mind.

00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:05.000
Now all British soldiers are going to be aware could it be booby trapped.

00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:15.000
Oh, there's some Germans still down there that that haven't been dealt with yet, but British soldiers are also on the lookout for souvenirs.

00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:23.000
In particular, these pitle harps, these spiked hacks, that the Germans were in the first stages of the war.

00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:27.000
This was the ultimate trophy. If you go, come back with a pitle harb.

00:35:27.000 --> 00:35:30.000
But there might also be something like some snaps down there as well.

00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:44.000
So eventually his curiosity and desire to find the suitable souvenir overcomes any kind of fears he has, and leave anxious down, and in the darkness he has a sound.

00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:53.000
Let me out, and he looks around and you can see there's some kind of table, and he sees a bottle glimpse, and then he sees this little kitten moving around.

00:35:53.000 --> 00:36:01.000
So he grabs both with little kitten and this bottle, and makes his way back up to the surface.

00:36:01.000 --> 00:36:17.000
Define. Yes, he's got a kitten but he's also got a bottle of perfume, which is really useful for frontline soldiers, but they lock about with it. till the office comes along and says, well actually come on we should

00:36:17.000 --> 00:36:29.000
be kind of getting getting ready. So it's a counter-attack, as was so often the case with the British army in both world was any initial success.

00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:42.000
Usually went by the but, by the way, because the British army, the once they achieve something, would stop for a cup of tea rather than pressing, on which the Germans would inevitably do. and so.

00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:46.000
This opportunity really to have broken right through the gentleman lines was lost.

00:36:46.000 --> 00:37:01.000
They just dug in and waited, and the Germans so thank you very much, and soon brought up reinforcements, and were indeed counterattacking the British

00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:07.000
So there we are! paddy kennedy is with a unit that's not his own.

00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:11.000
He's now got a kitten she decides to keep with him feeding.

00:37:11.000 --> 00:37:22.000
It is first meal of bully beef, and so little Rudy that had started life in the German, I mean, was now part of the British army, and more over.

00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:28.000
The net was now facing counterattacks a little, little Tommy.

00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:43.000
Now gets shoved into a knapsack. Well, Patty Kennedy, I think for the first time, actually uses his rifle as a shot in anger.

00:37:43.000 --> 00:37:57.000
Eventually the unit t's in is taken out of the front line he's able to make his way back to where he's own unit is still held in reserve, together with little Tommy Anything's right well i've got to

00:37:57.000 --> 00:38:04.000
find a more of a home for him. So he takes him to the cooks and they say, Well, okay, yeah, we'll keep him here.

00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:07.000
He might be useful when he grows up keeping the mice, and so forth.

00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:15.000
Down away from the food, but he this bond is there he's still very much his little cat.

00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:26.000
But he identifies with the battle of The song drags on for several weeks. Paddy Kennedy's unit suffers a appallingly.

00:38:26.000 --> 00:38:33.000
In a later episode they suffer a huge numbers of casualties in one of the subsequent attacks.

00:38:33.000 --> 00:38:42.000
Whether his own is nearly wiped out, and by March 1719, 17.

00:38:42.000 --> 00:39:01.000
Paddy Kennedy is one of only 3 of his original company to be left still serving, whereas have been killed or taken prisoner or invalid it out of the army 3 out of probably 80 to 100 or so Tommy

00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:12.000
is now grown up into a into a proper cat, and the 3 of them get together sometime in March of 1,917, and they come to a decision.

00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:19.000
Well, particularly Paddy I think there's an air of fatalism. They they, they think Well, we're not gonna we're not gonna see Manchester.

00:39:19.000 --> 00:39:24.000
Well, we might go and believe and that's about it but we're not gonna survive this war.

00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:35.000
We eventually Something's gonna do for us and They're determined that some think should go back to Manchester, and so they decide that Tommy, we'll go to Manchester.

00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:42.000
One of them. rich lord has got some leave coming up and so that's basically what happens.

00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:50.000
Tommy is, is housed in a in a box, and leaves the front line and comes back.

00:39:50.000 --> 00:40:07.000
Comes to Manchester. This French farm Cat that that served in the German army, and then been in the first day of the Battle of the Sun, finally ends up in in Rochdale, where he's looked after I by Mr.

00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:20.000
Mrs. Lord Regg Lords mom, and Dad regulate himself dies, and later on in the war doesn't survive.

00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:27.000
Howdy, Kennedy does. He has a pretty traumatic remainder of the war.

00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:36.000
Part. The latter part of the battle of the song is compelled to be part of a firing squad, and I think this just tips in me.

00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:45.000
Just he can't cope with this you know the he says I I refuse to sort of serve him with a rifle anymore.

00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:57.000
I don't want to kill anyone else. so it becomes a straight up bearer, and he actually wins a medal in one of the subsequent battles and the battle of our era for rescuing

00:40:57.000 --> 00:41:08.000
wounded soldiers that were in low man's land but It It took a huge toll, I mean the way. it's described by the time is demolished in 1,980.

00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:12.000
These are is a wreck. you know it's a physical wreck, and he's a mental wreck.

00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:24.000
By that time, but he's a survivor he came back in one piece, where virtually all of his original company, where are the dead or invalidated?

00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:31.000
But back in Manchester He doesn't forget his Trustee Cat, and he would frequently go out to see Mr.

00:41:31.000 --> 00:41:45.000
And Mrs. Lord, and pay visits so tommy hello I didn't know hopefully would remember him

00:41:45.000 --> 00:42:00.000
That's my final page from the book where he goes out, and he sees Tommy out playing with the young children

00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:08.000
So that's that is the story. Oh, Yeah, a cat that served in the German and the bridge army.

00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:17.000
And I think it shows that, you know. Okay, we animals are basically there, full for a job.

00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:23.000
Delivery messages, killing rats, but clearly you know the soldiers themselves.

00:42:23.000 --> 00:42:26.000
They had an affinity. They they like these animals.

00:42:26.000 --> 00:42:37.000
I think it gave them something some kind of humanity, maybe, that was in danger of being lost in the war.

00:42:37.000 --> 00:42:47.000
So finish with able c cat. Simon The fee line awarded the dicky medal.

00:42:47.000 --> 00:42:53.000
His this on Hms. Amethyst. This was after the Second World War.

00:42:53.000 --> 00:42:59.000
He was a ship's cat, and the amassist got trapped in the Yanksi River.

00:42:59.000 --> 00:43:05.000
When the mouse, the chip during, was overcoming

00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:11.000
The Chinese Government and they've managed to sort of block for time.

00:43:11.000 --> 00:43:24.000
Yeah, the Hms. amethyst it managed to get out in the end. But it was under quite a lot of relentless attack, and I don't know quite what so able seek at Simon did, but he he seems to have

00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:27.000
kept up morale, and on the basis of that day decided to award him.

00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:42.000
The Dick in medal. I could say he was the only one

00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:48.000
So that concludes my run through of of animals that were from pigeons to cats.

00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:56.000
The dogs to horses and mules and also i'll probably finish slightly earlier by

00:43:56.000 --> 00:44:10.000
No, you're fine thank you very much for that ball look it's fascinating story, and I guess there's a real paradox there isn't there you know as a person being a a nation of animal lovers that said

00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:15.000
that so many of these animals into war. the numbers are quite staggering isn't it?

00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:25.000
And yeah, yeah, we're, gonna give metals. I think there was a sentimentality behind it as well, yeah, but they were being ruthlessly exploited, I suppose.

00:44:25.000 --> 00:44:33.000
But yeah, okay, Great? No, let's have a look at what everybody's been saying Got a few comments in here, and I do have a question for you.

00:44:33.000 --> 00:44:43.000
So everybody extends on your questions. no we've got one from Carl, and she was very aware about you know.

00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:56.000
Then numbers of horses and pigeons and dogs, and that were enlisted, but not cats, and she's, asking, presumably the the cuts must have been absolutely deafened.

00:44:56.000 --> 00:45:05.000
By the carnage that was going on around them. and also the presumably the cats, were allowed to breed to you.

00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:14.000
Know. so that was a constant supply. Yeah, I I well yeah I mean I don't think they would have been muted by it muted by that.

00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:19.000
In terms of on the in my cap freaks out.

00:45:19.000 --> 00:45:28.000
If I put the vacuum cleaner on so I don't know what all a couple of rounds from a mortar or a machine going, I just, I assume they just adapted to the life.

00:45:28.000 --> 00:45:36.000
That they found that. Yeah, I suppose most trench life was quiet, you know.

00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:41.000
They's it's like a major offensive was was a was a rarity, really.

00:45:41.000 --> 00:45:46.000
Probably you would find most of the time them, so there would be trend trades.

00:45:46.000 --> 00:45:56.000
Maybe there might be the occasional sort of stunk of mortars, but by a large, I think the frontline trenches would have been quiet if anything.

00:45:56.000 --> 00:46:05.000
But So they would have adapted. But yeah, once a major offensive was going on, yeah, it would get noisy, I suppose.

00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:14.000
Okay, and another good question here from June, loving the illustrations and have to agree.

00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:20.000
She's asking, Have you ever thought about making an animated film with them because they they do have that sort of quality about them.

00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:35.000
I think I do. right. I I had to come to digital technology late in my career, and I don't I've managed to mastur what I need.

00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:41.000
I the to go further into animation I don't know I think I've got too many other little projects.

00:46:41.000 --> 00:46:45.000
I want to do It's a more conventional illustration.

00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:55.000
But yeah, I would have thought in terms of whether any of these stories, funnily enough, Petty Kennedy did appear.

00:46:55.000 --> 00:46:59.000
They did when we were commemorating the First World War.

00:46:59.000 --> 00:47:07.000
There were a series, I think the Bbc. did them focusing on particular soldiers upset, and Paddy Kennedy was one.

00:47:07.000 --> 00:47:13.000
But the but I don't think he when they did that they they didn't include about the kitten.

00:47:13.000 --> 00:47:20.000
They left that bit out. but he was used but otherwise yeah I mean I don't know.

00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:25.000
So I think that there was an animated film done of Gustav.

00:47:25.000 --> 00:47:35.000
The d-day. Yeah. So again, if you if you Google gust up the pigeon there is an animated film.

00:47:35.000 --> 00:47:44.000
It's sort of quite well, it's designified but not in a nice way, and the the d-day museum.

00:47:44.000 --> 00:47:51.000
They hated it. They really hated it, they said they because they obviously they've taken good stuff to their hearts.

00:47:51.000 --> 00:47:56.000
So. But yeah, So if that one has been done with voice, check the bear.

00:47:56.000 --> 00:48:04.000
I would endless rooms there's a feature film in the in the making about boy check, but yet to see anything.

00:48:04.000 --> 00:48:14.000
Hmm: Okay, and question from Margaret. Obviously we we we know what happens, Tommy, he ended up in Manchester.

00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:18.000
Do we know, in a more general sense what happened to the surviving cats at the end of the war?

00:48:18.000 --> 00:48:25.000
All these good good Oh, dear, me I it's like all these animals!

00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:34.000
Once you start scaling back, what do you do with the the artillery courses, the the dogs, the cats, even the pigeons.

00:48:34.000 --> 00:48:41.000
I suppose the pigeons could go back to the handlers that they had, but I actually don't know.

00:48:41.000 --> 00:48:55.000
I don't know what happened to all of them maybe They were brought back, but it's a lot of cats isn't it breeding they're probably all sorts of feral colonies of cats all over the

00:48:55.000 --> 00:49:05.000
place. So that's that's an interesting one to find out that one. Yeah, we're good enough. Okay, right like to look here, we've got quite a few comments from.

00:49:05.000 --> 00:49:24.000
People, so we can never take a look at some of these That's similar like just horses with shot Yeah, I think in war horse. That was what was gonna happen when they were gonna put them shoot them

00:49:24.000 --> 00:49:32.000
Yeah, seem to remember Now, Okay, let's have a Look here, what would we go?

00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:41.000
We've got a few more minutes now let's see what we have Amanda, you've asked about putting the titles in the chat box. work.

00:49:41.000 --> 00:49:54.000
What we will do is actually push up. the details of bob's work and alongside the lecture recording on the members of the website, and probably sometime next week, and once we've heard a chance to put everything together so when Bob i'll

00:49:54.000 --> 00:50:01.000
be in touch with you a bit that tomorrow. no! lots of people saying that you should.

00:50:01.000 --> 00:50:07.000
You should you should publish, publish the book? Yeah. it would be possible.

00:50:07.000 --> 00:50:11.000
I mean, cause I used self-publishing on online site.

00:50:11.000 --> 00:50:22.000
But I didn't bother take you know I mean I just uploaded it so I could just print some copies. but it would be possible, I suppose, to do it that way.

00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:25.000
I could, that then it would be accessible by our Amazon.

00:50:25.000 --> 00:50:31.000
I think, but I don't know I I I need I need to rework it a bit.

00:50:31.000 --> 00:50:42.000
I think it's not really so proper. standard. Yeah, I mean I like I like the pencil drawings. I mean that that's okay, but it's not laid out very well.

00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:46.000
It's they're supposed to be bleeds and they're not.

00:50:46.000 --> 00:50:55.000
You got little white lines or you shouldn't have them so So all part of my learning process Oh, being design these days.

00:50:55.000 --> 00:51:01.000
Yeah, something for the future, then maybe What else we got here?

00:51:01.000 --> 00:51:03.000
Oh, this from Amanda! Did you notice that able C cat?

00:51:03.000 --> 00:51:09.000
Simon seems to have 6 tours seen as lucky by some interesting right.

00:51:09.000 --> 00:51:17.000
That is that is fine, finally observed. You know. what else do we have here?

00:51:17.000 --> 00:51:21.000
Oh, now we have a comment about voice which we took actually.

00:51:21.000 --> 00:51:32.000
No, look at me. Try and find it now. yeah it, said Jillian, saying, There, there is an optional written about him.

00:51:32.000 --> 00:51:38.000
I'm not sure if you would wake up didn't buy a monkunian composer a few years ago, Donald.

00:51:38.000 --> 00:51:48.000
Judge I pointed out when I did the tool you know he's become he's become very much a cult figure.

00:51:48.000 --> 00:51:54.000
So that doesn't surprise me absolutely as I say I walk past that statue of him and Edinburgh.

00:51:54.000 --> 00:52:02.000
Quite a lot. Okay. Oh, no, you're sending questions from Carol.

00:52:02.000 --> 00:52:14.000
Where are elephants? You probably would have had elephants serving with the British army in the Far East.

00:52:14.000 --> 00:52:27.000
In the Second World War, the forgotten Army, the Fourteenth Army, that one of my all served in, I would imagine, because they they used to by the Indians.

00:52:27.000 --> 00:52:31.000
Well, certainly in the past, you know. they can carry, you know, trunks currently and things.

00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:35.000
I would imagine I would have thought they would be used in in the rear areas.

00:52:35.000 --> 00:52:46.000
I don't think I think I think animals, going into war probably i'm sorry. elephants going into a battle probably ended with Hannibal, but maybe not.

00:52:46.000 --> 00:53:04.000
Maybe later was but yeah, so it would be used yeah, we've got a comment from Jane saying elephants were used to replace 3 horses that wasn't interesting and no amanda you're asking

00:53:04.000 --> 00:53:07.000
we are. The statue of Voicemail is an admiral.

00:53:07.000 --> 00:53:17.000
I can tell you that one if you are ever in Princeton Street Gardens west, so that's to the west side of the National Gallery.

00:53:17.000 --> 00:53:23.000
You will find voicemail on the the sort of highest top path closest to Princess Street.

00:53:23.000 --> 00:53:28.000
So that's where you'll find pain vo tech

00:53:28.000 --> 00:53:33.000
Oh, and another comment here from Andrew Circus. elephants were used by the first State Commission in the war.

00:53:33.000 --> 00:53:43.000
Oh, right yeah. there's a I didn't think of elephants camels I knew.

00:53:43.000 --> 00:53:51.000
But interesting that's another one for the research what else do we have here.

00:53:51.000 --> 00:53:57.000
I think that's well, hopefully just about us but here in fact, here's the final one.

00:53:57.000 --> 00:54:12.000
Final comment from Christine. her great grandfather had Liberty Stables in Newcastle that was set up to help officers horses from the Board War be helped back into good health.

00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:23.000
That's popular christine and we have a question here from with when you did activities and schools?

00:54:23.000 --> 00:54:32.000
Did you ever have any conscientious objectors any children that didn't want to role play Now that's a really interesting question.

00:54:32.000 --> 00:54:44.000
Don't recall I know the girls that they pull like a baby wall, like How did the boys you know?

00:54:44.000 --> 00:55:02.000
I mean we were yeah i've never I didn't have any problems with this, because obviously we were we so we're putting like really Enfield rifles in the hands of these children.

00:55:02.000 --> 00:55:05.000
There was never any sense. I think they saw it as his.

00:55:05.000 --> 00:55:16.000
You know the history it's living trying to bring history to life and there wasn't any sense, or we shouldn't be given children guns, play guns, anything like that was it was wasn't done like that at all although

00:55:16.000 --> 00:55:22.000
we would, you know it was. It could be quite a daunting experience.

00:55:22.000 --> 00:55:34.000
We would often, when we sent them over the top it would be dark, and we'd have one machine guns going off and flashing lights, and I think they really they got a little out of it.

00:55:34.000 --> 00:55:38.000
I mean, teachers were constantly saying the writing they got out of the children.

00:55:38.000 --> 00:55:44.000
Subsequently. that was really good. But but it was yeah, it was a no hold bar.

00:55:44.000 --> 00:55:47.000
And what we would do we would give them at the start of the day.

00:55:47.000 --> 00:55:51.000
We were given them an identity, a real living soldiers identity.

00:55:51.000 --> 00:56:02.000
So when they enlisted they had soldier, and we would always put them into a pals battalion associated with the area where the school was.

00:56:02.000 --> 00:56:16.000
So if it was i'll see the show with foresters there there would be an actual powers battalion and at the end of the day we we basically we sent them over the top of the first day of the start

00:56:16.000 --> 00:56:23.000
so, and at the end of the day we would have a scene where they would find out what happened to that.

00:56:23.000 --> 00:56:27.000
Their identity, their soldier that they've been playing what happened to that.

00:56:27.000 --> 00:56:33.000
So did they die, and not really was quite awesome the impact it had on them.

00:56:33.000 --> 00:56:44.000
Then we would do the last post, and so forth. we remember them so we It was a bit of a coming down experience at the end of the day, you know.

00:56:44.000 --> 00:56:56.000
They could get very excited by all. But at the end of the day it really really drove home the level of sacrifice that the young men of their area made, you know, in this in the first world.

00:56:56.000 --> 00:57:03.000
War so, and i'm still looking so i've got another booking.

00:57:03.000 --> 00:57:06.000
This is 's me and I need to go back and do it again.

00:57:06.000 --> 00:57:11.000
We did it last the november and we're going back again.

00:57:11.000 --> 00:57:16.000
It seems that we've become part of the fabric you know. Yeah, Oh, it's november.

00:57:16.000 --> 00:57:18.000
It's honest to stay up we get Bob and andy in again.

00:57:18.000 --> 00:57:34.000
Yeah, Yeah. a little comment that's come in from Shavan, just as you're talking there, and very powerful rule play for kids. absolutely reminds sort of the black outer scene.

00:57:34.000 --> 00:57:42.000
I think everybody remembers that

00:57:42.000 --> 00:57:51.000
That's what we we we have that in mind always that it's like, Okay, we can have a good We can have a fun day, but the end of the day, boy we got up sort of end it.

00:57:51.000 --> 00:57:59.000
With a large dose of reality. Yeah. Okay, Well, Bob, thank you very much for that.

00:57:59.000 --> 00:58:02.000
So really, really interesting story, And I think everybody has enjoyed that.

00:00:07.000 --> 00:00:10.000
Thank you very much. Thank you for having me nice to see so many people here.

00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:13.000
Good afternoon. Good evening. this bye, I feel like 5 is evening.

00:00:13.000 --> 00:00:19.000
But here we are in the between the afternoon and the evening yeah, i'm going to speak to you today.

00:00:19.000 --> 00:00:26.000
About fashion designers in film. and this is a bit of research that I did a bit of a thing I put together as part of some wider research.

00:00:26.000 --> 00:00:30.000
I was doing that on clothes in film, and how clothes in film work.

00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:47.000
And I started thinking, there's quite a few occasions, when fashion designers have got involved in filmmaking for for whatever reason, normally to clothe a particular actor or for a particular project and I started, to think is this is

00:00:47.000 --> 00:01:01.000
this a good method? Does it? Does a does a fashion designer bring what we want as film colors and as film lovers do. They have the skills? or do we need someone that's actually trained in in in the language of cinema, And how

00:01:01.000 --> 00:01:12.000
to how to costume a character, and how you can do things with the characters costume, to tell you things about their their character, about the plot, to tell you things about the about the movie.

00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:17.000
So I thought it would be nice to look at a few sort of a few examples, and you can kind of make your own minds up.

00:01:17.000 --> 00:01:33.000
I can guess as to as to whether these are effective or not, whether they whether they work and whether this whole idea of fashion design, is kind of crossing the road and coming in to work on films is actually a kind of a productive and

00:01:33.000 --> 00:01:41.000
useful thing when we think of fashion. Design is getting involved in film to dress particular particular actors.

00:01:41.000 --> 00:01:52.000
The very first one we normally think of is Audrey Hepburn, and all the dresses that she wore that were designed by Hubert Giovanni in the fiftys and sixtys.

00:01:52.000 --> 00:02:01.000
So as much some non-conformist that's where we're going to start today as well I thought it'd be nice to look at a bit of background of that because it's something that we kind of take for granted

00:02:01.000 --> 00:02:06.000
you see, Hepburn on film and you think that's that burn wearing a gyvanchi dress?

00:02:06.000 --> 00:02:10.000
But how did that come about? Well, it goes back to the first, the first film that she made where she was dressed by Shevant.

00:02:10.000 --> 00:02:15.000
She is a film called Sabrina, which will take a little look at in a second in the Uk.

00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:21.000
It played as Sabrina Fair that was called it's a Billy Wilder movie, and it's from 1,954.

00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:27.000
Now in the film. Her character is a young lady who's just come back to the Us.

00:02:27.000 --> 00:02:38.000
From Paris, and has has a number of fancy Parisian frocks that she wears, and the idea is that she's a no, not a fish out of water.

00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:51.000
But it's a kind of a walker some near more glamorous character than than in this in the world of America that she's brought back this Parisian style when with her so portrait ben said Well, why don't

00:02:51.000 --> 00:02:55.000
I get some, you know, a real fancy Parisian dress that I can wear.

00:02:55.000 --> 00:02:59.000
I will make it realistic so very well, they said, go for it.

00:02:59.000 --> 00:03:07.000
She went off. First of all she went to Balanceyaga. he said he was too busy, and he sent her to Hubert Giovanni. He said he was too busy.

00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:09.000
He said, but you can buy them. you can just buy something from the shop.

00:03:09.000 --> 00:03:21.000
I haven't got times making something but buy something off the peg, and she said, Okay, and she bought at least a couple of dresses that she wears in the in the movie and it's kind of the beginning of a of a of

00:03:21.000 --> 00:03:34.000
a beautiful collaboration Now, officially, and the movie Sabrina, the costumes are by a custom designer called Edith Head, who, if you know 1 one costume designer, is probably the one, you know, probably I think the most

00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:38.000
prolific Oscar, whenever by costume sign it either thread.

00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:46.000
Officially. she she built on the the Chevans, she clothes, and was inspired by them and built other things. and

00:03:46.000 --> 00:03:54.000
That argument, and that disagreement about whose clothes we're actually looking at on the screen. Is it Is Are they actually on cheese, or are they?

00:03:54.000 --> 00:04:00.000
Or are they edit heads reenter obsessions of those you aren't sheet designs and that's gone back and forth?

00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:06.000
No one seems a 100% sure. Both Shimanshi and Edith Head are now long dead, so we'll never know for sure.

00:04:06.000 --> 00:04:12.000
So we'll just say that both deeply involved in clothing this character.

00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:27.000
What I think is really interesting is There's a really useful quote from the time for that from Audrey hebang, she says, and this is after She'd made a number of a number of pictures wearing shepherd she

00:04:27.000 --> 00:04:31.000
she said, Javashi's clothes are the only ones I feel myself in.

00:04:31.000 --> 00:04:45.000
He is more than a designer. He is a creator of personality, and I think this idea that she feels herself in the clothes is really interesting, because and it asks us the question: Do we go to the cinema to see actors? or Do we go to Cinema?

00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:50.000
To see characters. Do we want her to feel herself or Do we want her to feel like the character she's playing in the film?

00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:59.000
And I think this sort of speaks to the time so when you when stars were big stars were bigger than the characters they they played.

00:04:59.000 --> 00:05:03.000
But I think it's it's crucial that the he's dressing.

00:05:03.000 --> 00:05:07.000
He's not necessarily dressing the characters he's dressing Audrey Hatburn.

00:05:07.000 --> 00:05:11.000
Why don't we have a little look at a bit of Sabrina?

00:05:11.000 --> 00:05:15.000
Then better than me better than me, just talking about it that she makes an entrance here.

00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:22.000
I think, which is worth seeing in a Gyvonchi dress, which I did.

00:05:22.000 --> 00:05:24.000
I apparently has been altered to make her look less bony.

00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:30.000
She was very Hepburns, apparently very concerned with how bony she looks, and how how thin she looked.

00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:42.000
And so one of the things that Gibon she did is he cut the clothes around that to to flatter flatter figure.

00:05:42.000 --> 00:05:48.000
So. let me share my screen I don't know what that was, and we'll have a look at this little picture.

00:05:48.000 --> 00:06:18.000
This is slightly quiet. this dvd i'm afraid but you'll you'll get the idea

00:06:21.000 --> 00:06:24.000
What is it, David? Oh, would you like to go and get something gate?

00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:36.000
No, thank you, darling. A drink

00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:39.000
I'm terribly sorry no no it's it's my fault.

00:06:39.000 --> 00:06:42.000
I didn't see you will it wash out Elizabeth. Yes, it isn't bad.

00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:44.000
Well, you'd better go and do it right now, huh?

00:06:44.000 --> 00:06:53.000
Come on, Miss

00:06:53.000 --> 00:07:02.000
Oh, Sabrina!

00:07:02.000 --> 00:07:08.000
You look wonderful. Thank you on a bit late I worry were you afraid i'd forgotten the address.

00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:29.000
It was was my mind. Here we dance right here

00:07:29.000 --> 00:07:35.000
We're leaving there dancing for a minute I mean she's, you know. she's obviously a scene steeler, and she and she yeah, the camera loves her.

00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:40.000
She's one of those people that that that the camera just absolutely loves.

00:07:40.000 --> 00:07:49.000
And that seems works I think it's you know it's important to point out, because she is supposed to be she is supposed to be turning everyone's heads.

00:07:49.000 --> 00:07:58.000
She's supposed to look completely different she's supposed to have that Parisian, a Parisian style that she's that she's brought with her. and she's supposed to radically different to everyone else on screen when we look

00:07:58.000 --> 00:08:05.000
at it now. Looks like Audrey Hatbone, looking like Audrey Hepburn, because we, over the over the following years, get so used to that.

00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:19.000
Look that it that it becomes like watching that watching Hepburn on screen rather than rather than her playing that that particular character, I guess, is there? I guess, as the is the the crucial point we can we've probably got time to

00:08:19.000 --> 00:08:24.000
look at another very quick click from this, because I think this is an interesting

00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:32.000
If we jump to about hair. we look at this scene here that she plays with the with Humphrey Bogart.

00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:37.000
Yes, well have a look at this and we'll talk better afterwards.

00:08:37.000 --> 00:08:51.000
Come to order of the boat, I would like to say at the outset, Chairman is so busy meeting adjourned.

00:08:51.000 --> 00:08:57.000
Have a frozen dachary. I saw an office like this in an old copy of Fortune Magazine.

00:08:57.000 --> 00:09:02.000
At my dentist. I, David, got an office like this, something like this, only larger, larger.

00:09:02.000 --> 00:09:15.000
Oh, yes, instead of a desk, he has a pudding green, please, Sabrina, before my fingers get frostbitten

00:09:15.000 --> 00:09:21.000
Is this the ledge? What ledge? You know the ledge?

00:09:21.000 --> 00:09:31.000
That woman when you almost the ledge Yes, Yes, that's the ledge.

00:09:31.000 --> 00:09:35.000
All right, Humphrey Bogart suddenly looks old doesn't it by comparison.

00:09:35.000 --> 00:09:39.000
It suddenly suddenly send him out. Looks like a young person's game

00:09:39.000 --> 00:09:42.000
I showed you that clip, because I think it might be nice to look at.

00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:50.000
Could this image here an Edith Head drawing? Let me going in and out of the share? Let me share.

00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:59.000
This. This is a small image, but you'll get the idea this is a native head drawing from the time.

00:09:59.000 --> 00:10:10.000
Saying what to have been clearly the dress they had the whole output that she's wearing in that in that scene so part of the story of whether it was as you have on she dress or or something that the Edith had worked up based

00:10:10.000 --> 00:10:17.000
on giovanni's design but it's it's clearly come from you know from from from the man himself.

00:10:17.000 --> 00:10:22.000
Whether she's interpreted or not in fact i've got a whole bunch of other images which I think will be crucial to have a look at.

00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:26.000
Now so we've we've looked at we know where it began.

00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:34.000
Now really we know we know where whether whether they're how their working relationship started.

00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:40.000
If I add a bunch of images here, and share screen you'll get the idea.

00:10:40.000 --> 00:10:48.000
So they went on There he went on to clothe her in 6 more movies through from from 54 to 66.

00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:55.000
So so we've got We've got images from funny face not a particularly good one.

00:10:55.000 --> 00:11:04.000
I hit that's funny face. you can see exactly the same kind of style, exactly the same style as she was she was wearing in the in at the garden party.

00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:10.000
It's you know almost exactly the same look that's love in the afternoon.

00:11:10.000 --> 00:11:16.000
Not a not particularly good. I can find a still from that. That's just that. that's just a frame capture from that.

00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:28.000
The iconic, of course, is brexit stephanie's a little bit of an outlier an outlier in the in the in the in the in the the Heburn Giovanni

00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:35.000
cannon charade getting a little bit more sixties.

00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:40.000
But still kind of very much cut to to fit Audrey herself.

00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:45.000
Paris, when it sizes 64 very similar.

00:11:45.000 --> 00:11:49.000
Look to charade and finishing with how to deal a 1 million Peter at all.

00:11:49.000 --> 00:11:57.000
That's 66. That was the last the last movie that cubbert costumed her in much that love all those films much sell.

00:11:57.000 --> 00:12:04.000
I've order to happen. she is in every single one of those stills. and really, in every single one of those movies she is Audrey.

00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:13.000
Happen we're looking at the the collaboration is a collaboration between actor and costumer rather than someone costuming particular characters.

00:12:13.000 --> 00:12:26.000
I think. There's also. he also designed I mean she must have absolutely loved him, because he also designed her dress that she wore when she collected her Oscar.

00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:30.000
That's a small picture. but there you go and the dress that she got married in as well.

00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:34.000
So. He was a massive, a massive part of that.

00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:46.000
He was costuming her on and off screen I think that's a really crucial crucial part of it, because it shows that what he was doing is providing clothes for her rather than providing clothes.

00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:49.000
It sounds what it means, say it, but rather paranoes for the characters in the film.

00:12:49.000 --> 00:13:01.000
I'm not saying he didn't necessarily read every script. but I think he's working with the the raw material of Audrey happen rather than rather than rather than doing something specifically to the to what

00:13:01.000 --> 00:13:11.000
motor requires so let's leave audio for a bit. that's one example of of a relationship in the way the way these things work.

00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:25.000
I want to compare this to the relationship between Catherine Denver and Eve San Lorraine, which comes around a little few years a few years later on.

00:13:25.000 --> 00:13:32.000
So story with these 2 is Okayatherine Denov was due to meet the Queen in 1,966.

00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:38.000
She was married to David Bailey at the time and David Bailey said, What are you going to wear to meet the Queen?

00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:50.000
He said, Why don't you Why don't you ask Eve salaron to make you something to wear to meet the Queen, which is not a conversation that many married couples need to have But it came up between them so and that

00:13:50.000 --> 00:14:00.000
was her first introduction. Introduction These bits over the word to to Eve Santa Ron, and and what he did.

00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:12.000
So I've got an image of what she wore the queen's not in this image, but some other famous faces are that this is what Eve santa Ron designed for her to meet to make the Queen there

00:14:12.000 --> 00:14:17.000
Julie, Christie, and Sarah address as well, of course all looking great.

00:14:17.000 --> 00:14:25.000
But Catherine Denner of really going I think quite a quite a standout. I've got a bold look there for for for meeting the Queens.

00:14:25.000 --> 00:14:33.000
That was the first thing he designed for and the first thing in example, was for it wasn't for a film like I say it was, for it was for real life.

00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:46.000
It was for ram it's amazing the queen in 66. So then became the start of a kind of professional friendship and a collaboration between the 2, and then the in 67.

00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:52.000
She makes belle dejor with Louis Bunnell and

00:14:52.000 --> 00:15:00.000
She herself suggested Eve Santa Ron to Bunnell, to to call the character she plays in the film Severine.

00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:13.000
Now what he did if santa rosy went away and created an entire sort of wardrobe for her, so that so that in every in every scene she's wearing, she's wearing something designed by him but what I

00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:19.000
think he does that jean-monchi doesn't Doesn't really do?

00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:34.000
Is, I think he. He knows exactly what the character in the film needs and what and what he needs to what he needs to portray, and how he needs to, how he needs to clothe the character to tell us something as as film governors.

00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:41.000
who are Yeah, as literate film goes. But we we look at, we look at what characters wearing.

00:15:41.000 --> 00:15:52.000
We infer things from it. We read certain things. we read things about color, about carts, about opulence or not, about fabrics, about texture, and we read things, and we start to.

00:15:52.000 --> 00:16:04.000
We learn things about character. If a costume designer is clever well, we'll learn something about why they're wearing that particular thing, and then there can be symbolic things as well about buttoned upness or things not fitting property or

00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:10.000
things not quite worn properly. That might tell you something else about that about the character as well.

00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:16.000
And I think he really he really works that really well in in in in Belgium.

00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:21.000
So why don't we start i've got I can show you a couple of clips in this which I think will be quite useful.

00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:28.000
Second. This is the very opening scene of bell to shore.

00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:34.000
It starts with Belgium. The film is about young woman, a young Parisian woman.

00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:46.000
With a husband in in Paris who is bored and decides that her life might be more interesting if if she became a prostitute in the afternoons and sort of does it for thrills, and then gets mixed up in a whole

00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:50.000
world of gangsters and difficulty and it all goes a little bit wrong.

00:16:50.000 --> 00:16:58.000
So it's. got this element of the double life in it, Of course, that gives you all sorts of opportunities to play with costume, and to play with.

00:16:58.000 --> 00:17:10.000
How costume can you know which which severine are we seeing, and maybe suggest moral things about what might be going on, but can also tell us something about who Severine is right from right from the off.

00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:21.000
So we're going to start with this very opening scene the film starts the very long shot through the park in Paris, with nothing modern on display at all. at the very beginning.

00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:27.000
You could think you're looking at a at a period drama, and they're in a horse strong carriage, but we'll start.

00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:40.000
We'll jump in just before we just before we we we we cut to them to them in the in the carriage, having a conversation, and have a look at what? obviously they have a look at what what severines wearing and what the

00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:52.000
film what the film tells you immediately about severine and who she is in the dialogue, and how that's reflected in what she's wearing, because I think it's I think there's there's interesting stuff

00:17:52.000 --> 00:18:13.000
going on, so did I open the click as I did let's go from

00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:26.000
The Dictator disasters Is it them sexual that all that moisture click 12 more, Please me quick.

00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:30.000
It's more seems like to saber effect could afford the other spies.

00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:39.000
Limbaugh put such to pay really that fashion can't you see? about 20 most on earth copper 10.

00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:53.000
The Savior at the last. Could you bit Miss Shelter

00:18:53.000 --> 00:19:06.000
I take, so that's a very short scene in which I think we learn a lot about the character of Severine, and we learn immediately that she's capable of being warm, but also being very cold.

00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:20.000
We learn there's. Probably some sort of marital discord happening there, and it may be to do with her coldness, and what we see is her in a well, she's wearing red for a start which is has been used in countless times in

00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:26.000
cinema as a symbol of both passion and of danger so it's kind of used ironically in that there's passion.

00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:38.000
There's passion that isn't being put to good use at the moment, but it is in there that in itself is dangerous. So the use of red is a cinematic code that I expect in costume that I think is really is really

00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:47.000
important, and eve as he's latched onto that immediately. but this idea of this quite sort of military cut of coat that's all buttoned up.

00:19:47.000 --> 00:19:52.000
Except there's. one or 2 kind of loose buttons, which, of course, none of this happens by by accident.

00:19:52.000 --> 00:20:04.000
I it's kind of symbolic it's symbolic of her closed off Nessa, buttoned upness. But there is a way in There's a there's a psychological way into to her buttoned upness as

00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:10.000
well, and that's all I think in the in the clothes are sort of the sort of quite hard austerity of it.

00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:16.000
But this this this sort of bright and also the bright red in the context of the outdoor, the sort of muted outdoor colors as well.

00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:18.000
I think it's really important. she's like a sort of a beacon.

00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:23.000
We know she's going to be the focus of the film and we know there's going to be passion and danger.

00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:30.000
It's going to be focused around her and like I say we have what's had this element of repression and buttoned up nests, which is kind of key to key to her. character.

00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:35.000
So I think he's doing he's already doing a really good job He's already kind of figuring out What do we?

00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:40.000
What do I need to do? What do we need to to say about this character? What do I need to?

00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:48.000
How ready to present this character on film and that's only you know we're not even 3 min into the into the movie yet.

00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:53.000
I'm. not at a slightly longer clip of this later on. This is the the sort of tipping point for severing.

00:20:53.000 --> 00:21:00.000
This is when she starts to think another way of life might be possible, and we're going to start with this little scene here.

00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:07.000
At a at the tennis club. Look at 2 scenes sort of adjacent to each other here.

00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:31.000
And and look you'll notice it anyway, but look out for the kind of the juxtaposition of what she wears in in each

00:21:31.000 --> 00:21:50.000
Didn't do, Spain barriers on the hotel boulevard, where you're a man of what we're doing. See?

00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:59.000
No, Sam, I that was the layer

00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:09.000
Let me still use all yet stuff the pharmaceutical, the dubious!

00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:16.000
He comes set at myself, honey, was that musical we, Porilosha.

00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:23.000
To Bethmo. Lymos measurated the funki. Savon, Lafoylas, Puddarajo.

00:22:23.000 --> 00:22:35.000
Something crazy at Google. Rodby severe should put back upon it I'm concerned, who survey so look you may see the moon. the Roduisa's pasture to parallel firmly from humanonymous also to

00:22:35.000 --> 00:22:53.000
them the misoccupied with Via kanet. who is your daughter? first in BukU.S.A.? a buffet? I particularly if i'm complete myself, he said, to a year she, an ice the city is all the sooners on the guarded excellence

00:22:53.000 --> 00:22:59.000
of it focus. Give a park, miss. Now yeah cute compulsion.

00:22:59.000 --> 00:23:07.000
It's exactly She wants any shot solve it to nothing that you animal, Jimmy Abukuk pierre fashion.

00:23:07.000 --> 00:23:17.000
I was talking this repellent

00:23:17.000 --> 00:23:47.000
She met him Andis all the city Jonasumi

00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:44.000
So let's leave her there. I don't think i'd need to explain the the costuming choices made there in those 2 scenes, but I like the way they sit in the film up against each other, we have the the the

00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:50.000
innocent almost at a virginal looking submarine at the tennis club that looks like butter would mount their mouth.

00:24:50.000 --> 00:25:00.000
I'm actually has this decision that maybe she's gonna go and see what's what's going on at all through to somewhere, and is back in the sort of military style buttoned up so it's almost in

00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:12.000
disguise almost like a really bad spy and you know into the black and buttoned up and the black hat and the and I was gonna say in glasses, but she's not wearing glasses, but she feels like she should be wearing

00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:21.000
glasses. it's a and it's very much presenting this idea, like the 2, the 2 submarines that the double life and so much of that obviously is going on in the costume. it's a bit blunt But

00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:26.000
it. Really, I think it it really works, and the film is full of little things like that.

00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:38.000
Ideas of you know these these contrasting things that are severing and black as ever in and white this idea of the buttoned upness. it's all there and it's and so it's all coming from

00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:44.000
from from eve santa cruz he did have 4 leaps an Iran in in designing some costumes for film.

00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:48.000
He'd decide some costumes for the 1,963.

00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:58.000
The pink pant at the first paint panther movie Claudia Cardinali's character is wearing Eve Sandra one, and that bade never I don't think dressed the character for the duration.

00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:03.000
Of a of a of of a movie. And he went on.

00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:07.000
After this day, one and the next year, they make it they made a film together, called Lashamard, in which he dresses her again.

00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:16.000
But it's not it's, not as interesting and then she wore his clothes in 4 or 5 other movies kind of going through the seventys and into the eightys, but normally just one item I don't think he dresses her

00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:21.000
for a whole film again. So It's a less enduring relationship.

00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:33.000
Then the Hepburn giovanni relationship but it's, I think it's more so successful in the in the kind of in the the the smaller window in which in which it exists.

00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:43.000
Got some interesting pictures to go alongside this they're they're together slightly later.

00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:46.000
Eve, Santa Ron, and and

00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:57.000
Catherine did have i'm just realize i've accidentally dressed this eve salad on today. it must have been decided to channel him in the velvet jacket quite hard to find pitched them together from this

00:26:57.000 --> 00:27:14.000
era actually. But there's one and a couple of pictures from the Eve Santa Ron Museum, which I think are worth looking at of the of the designs which are put to rather nice actually the interesting thing about the designs

00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:22.000
and we're just you know we'll just look through, and these are just a few of their sketches of a few of the different things she wears in the movie.

00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:25.000
They look slightly younger, I think, on on the page the money dresses for real.

00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:29.000
The interesting thing is, of course, what happened was the next year.

00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:34.000
All these clothes were in workshops in paris because he was a designer.

00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:42.000
They're they're also sold stuff. you could get you know you could go and buy some efsan around in Paris, and and and indeed people did.

00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:46.000
And so the next year everybody was wearing trench coats.

00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:48.000
Everyone was kind of dressing, like like Catherine Denver had A.

00:27:48.000 --> 00:28:00.000
Had a had a massive kind of knock on effect under the contemporary fashion, and to his own to his own safety as well to his own success; and he didn't make shoes at the time.

00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:05.000
So the shoes are by Roger Roger Vivier.

00:28:05.000 --> 00:28:07.000
There in the in the East Animal Museum as well.

00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:12.000
And those are apparently I didn't know but these are on enduring women's.

00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:19.000
Shoe classic and much copied, and and they were designed specifically for this, for this movie.

00:28:19.000 --> 00:28:33.000
So it's a it's a really successful little little moment a collaboration between the between between the 2, and maybe if it doesn't last as long as the like, I say as the as the Mr. Gibonchi and

00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:36.000
and Hepburn collaboration I do I do feel like It's more it's more cinematic.

00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:46.000
There's more going on where you can that you can kind of read, and you can infer things you can understand things, and from what the character is wearing on on the screen.

00:28:46.000 --> 00:28:50.000
So that's a really good successful one we've had we've been in America.

00:28:50.000 --> 00:29:00.000
We've been in France. let's have a look at what's going on in Uk at roughly the same time, because, we had fashions as well.

00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:08.000
Someone in the chat just said Very Mary. quant very interesting that you might say that it's a merry quant that we're about to about to turn right now.

00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:24.000
So well done you've read me like a book so Mary quant young designer of Clouds, that people can actually buy and that in the early sixties, and successful all the way through the sixties.

00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:32.000
She had also been involved in the early sixtys in costuming some individual characters in films.

00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:35.000
Some filmmakers have gone to and said, Can you can you dress?

00:29:35.000 --> 00:29:39.000
Can you dress this one particular character, or can we dress this character in inquant?

00:29:39.000 --> 00:29:48.000
So, of course, some images here. I won't share that one because we're going to look at the one bump. let's look at these. so we've got pictures here.

00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:53.000
Of

00:29:53.000 --> 00:30:05.000
Picture of a Nancy Quan in a song called The Wild Affair, the one of the first 1,963. a movie called The Haunting from the same year, Yeah.

00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:12.000
Same year. 63 very early sixties. look very similar in in in both films, you know.

00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:15.000
Sort of quite, very, very sort of early mod sort of late.

00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:21.000
Beatenk kind of look black tailored very smart.

00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:27.000
And then this image here is a publicity shop for the film, Elfie.

00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:30.000
1,966 in case you didn't notice by looking at it.

00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:33.000
Marc came up, looking very smug as as Alpha.

00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:40.000
The interesting thing about this this publicity show is I saw this publicity shop, and there's Jane Asher on the on the left.

00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:45.000
And wearing a very obvious bit of Mary Guant. That Mary Quant Baton is is is really familiar.

00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:51.000
I thought, Okay, So So jennifer scouted where's quantum? This film?

00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:59.000
How interesting the interesting thing is. She never wears that in the film, although this is a this photo goal. Is that obviously the sort of in character? I think.

00:30:59.000 --> 00:31:02.000
But Jane actually never wears that in the film.

00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:04.000
So she wore it just for the just for the photo.

00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:10.000
Call that in the Mary Gomp was so cool that you that you might wear our clothes just for the publicity shots.

00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:19.000
If not in the actual movie. but I still thought that was worth sharing, because it kind of shows a quant is kind of moving with the moving with the times.

00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:27.000
The really nice bit of mercant we can have A look at is from film Georgie Gal, which is 1966.

00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:32.000
Now, I really like the film Georgia Girl. It seems to be on Tv quite a lot. at the moment.

00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:42.000
One of the one of the free channels seems to be showing it quite often. so you'll probably stumble on it if you watch a lot of daytime Tv movies like I do it's 66 it's almost a

00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:49.000
swing London film, but it's a bit too, early and it's almost a kitchen sink drama, because it and it's sort of black and white and gritty but it's a bit too late.

00:31:49.000 --> 00:31:56.000
It kind of falls it's. a falls into the camp between those 2, those 2 sort of movie genres which is which I think is quite interesting in it of itself.

00:31:56.000 --> 00:32:07.000
So it's about Georgie who is George you would like to be a kind of girl about town. but she's not confident she's not particularly physically beautiful.

00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:13.000
She's a bit clumsy things don't really go her way.

00:32:13.000 --> 00:32:20.000
She's got a flat mate. her flatmate Meredith is is a played by the young charlotte.

00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:31.000
Rambling is beautiful, stylish, tiny, compared to compared to Georgia, and so fits into all the all the sort of mid sixtys factions, much were sort of effortlessly stylish.

00:32:31.000 --> 00:32:36.000
But she's an absolute nightmare and she's a really nasty piece of work, and she never gets her come up.

00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:42.000
It's in the film which really upsets me but Meredith is like the flat mate from hell.

00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:54.000
We side with with Georgie all the way and what's interesting is quant dresses meredith, so it's she's dressing essentially that the bady but she's dressing her to kind of look

00:32:54.000 --> 00:33:04.000
modish. so 66 modish, so that she looks very much sort of of the time. let's have a look at this still clip here, which I think is a really good illustration of how you can use costume to mark

00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:22.000
2 characters about on screen that Meredith is obviously covered in in Mary Quant This scene, and and Georgie very much isn't

00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:30.000
I don't know dust now this

00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:39.000
Okay. yeah. praying Mantis elephant, bloody, marvelous.

00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:46.000
Well, thank you, miss. some hockey parking. Yes, however, just at the moment our book seem to be full of annual imitators.

00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:51.000
But would you be prepared to strip, my dear? Got one or 2 operations?

00:33:51.000 --> 00:33:58.000
Got so much the better. The customers, like them within reason, of course, have to ask money on a number will be in touch. I'll bet you Willie.

00:33:58.000 --> 00:34:09.000
Dirty old slob

00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:13.000
Are you going out? Why, aren't you going with Joshua anyone.

00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:23.000
No, let's go and eat then, but at the first order of dust and all that nonsense i'm leaving you

00:34:23.000 --> 00:34:29.000
Forkins, Residents

00:34:29.000 --> 00:34:40.000
Hello! Oh, hi! I might be

00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:51.000
Okay, I'm not doing anything where then you'll have to Pick me up, Have the tube in about 5 min.

00:34:51.000 --> 00:35:07.000
See you

00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:15.000
Where are you going now? Party nicks for god's sake, Georgie? You don't expect me to have a meal with you. if I can go to a party.

00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:19.000
Do you I didn't mean it like that if you've been the one invited.

00:35:19.000 --> 00:35:22.000
I'd naturally I never am let's go into that again.

00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:27.000
Georgie.

00:35:27.000 --> 00:35:34.000
Okay, if you're gonna be suicidal i'll stay no go, sure sure have a lovely time.

00:35:34.000 --> 00:35:48.000
I think about you and I don't buy cocoa

00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:52.000
To leave Georgia there, washing up socks in the sink.

00:35:52.000 --> 00:35:56.000
But i'm really interesting clothes on film moment that I think because obviously Meredith looks great.

00:35:56.000 --> 00:35:59.000
But she's very contemporary she's very 66.

00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:05.000
The clothes will fit her perfectly, and the choice this juxtaposition to have Georgie dressed in what are essentially man's clothes.

00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:09.000
Sort of decentralizes her makes a film much less much less clamorous.

00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:15.000
But it's It's it's important that what that what merit it's wearing is actually Mary Quant Americans come in and and dress her.

00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:21.000
And there's a nice little coder to this scene actually, if I can find it for you.

00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:34.000
It's just here later on. later on Meredith is let me just get it bang on

00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:36.000
Meredith is pregnant, and has morning sickness.

00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:57.000
Have a look at this scene here. See what you See what you notice

00:36:57.000 --> 00:37:07.000
Not, was again

00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:18.000
Well, no use. you ask me to lend you the money this time because I won't. I don't care if it's old hat, and it's just a middle class taboo and the law needs changing and the population of

00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:22.000
these islands will be doubled by the year 2,000 I won't do it.

00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:26.000
So did you notice hanging up in the background very realistic approach to close our farm?

00:37:26.000 --> 00:37:40.000
There's the spotty meritant dress that she was wearing earlier on. and now she's pregnant she can't wear it, and it's kind of hanging up as a sort of reminder of things things lost but I think it's a very realistic approach

00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:45.000
to clone some that sometimes you will just like leave them places and it's It's you know that that's what should do with it.

00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:47.000
But I like that. I like that as a little little cinematic touch.

00:37:47.000 --> 00:38:01.000
It's kind of slightly out of reach so that's Quant and there's another bit of quant I can show you and it'll lead us back it'll lead us back to Audrey Hepburn if

00:38:01.000 --> 00:38:11.000
you bear with me a second while I honor that a really interesting outlier in the in the body of work of Audrey Hepburn.

00:38:11.000 --> 00:38:20.000
Is this movie? 2 for the road? which is from 2 thirds from 1,967.

00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:25.000
It's Stanley Donan film. i've only got a very small copy of this.

00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:31.000
Unfortunately, it's Dvds not anomorphics that comes out quite small thoughts.

00:38:31.000 --> 00:38:37.000
This is a really interesting film, too, for the road it's a Oj.

00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:43.000
Have been an Albert Finney are married and their marriages on the rocks, and it's it's 1,967.

00:38:43.000 --> 00:38:52.000
When the film is set and it's set in 67. but the whole film is shown through a series of flashbacks, and we very rarely come back to 1,967.

00:38:52.000 --> 00:39:06.000
It's a kind of kind of nested flashback structure, where sometimes a flashback will lead on to us, and only and only marginally. let more recent flashback, and so Scott quite hard to keep track of where you are But

00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:08.000
What Dona does is he uses fashions.

00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:19.000
To kind of illustrate to illustrate where where we are chronologically and it's a really useful way of of breaking breaking the film up.

00:39:19.000 --> 00:39:26.000
It's really nice to see happen of this of this era not wearing chip on, she and wearing something more more contemporary.

00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:34.000
So in this we have Mary, Quant she's one of different points packa Raban, she wears towards the end.

00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:43.000
Hardy amy's there's loads of like mid sixtys kind of what I always think of as like Sunday supplement designers like the kind of stuff that you would see in like the Then new color.

00:39:43.000 --> 00:39:53.000
Sunday supplements about like fashions of the future and it's slightly unwarrable, but you know, within a couple of years there'll be there'll be high street versions.

00:39:53.000 --> 00:39:59.000
All that, and but it's it's right on on this point here, and it's it's fun.

00:39:59.000 --> 00:40:10.000
It makes the film fun. but it also kind of it also kind of reminds you of of where you are chronologically, but it says a couple of other things as well.

00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:12.000
So there's so many clips I could show you the whole film.

00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:16.000
If I felt if we had, because we had like a day to do this.

00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:26.000
But have a look at this this is this is a rare moment in the film where we're back in 1,967, and they're They're sort of bemoaning everything that's that's gone wrong in their life so just look

00:40:26.000 --> 00:40:32.000
at what Audrey have done is wearing in the scene you'd be far better off on your own wouldn't.

00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:38.000
You not again, Joanna. You want to get on. I know Maurice is. wait.

00:40:38.000 --> 00:40:42.000
Let him wait. he's got you on a line only he has to do. Start reeling you in.

00:40:42.000 --> 00:40:48.000
You shut the hell up about Maurice if he won't for the reason you know what would be happy broke broken, happy.

00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:51.000
You want to go back to living in Sally? You hated it.

00:40:51.000 --> 00:41:03.000
I loved you hated it. I hated it I hate being at other people's back and cold as soon as someone back so calls that just resented That's all okay, you run the show you handle it.

00:41:03.000 --> 00:41:07.000
You worry about the house and the flat nanny and Mrs. Rathbone?

00:41:07.000 --> 00:41:13.000
I don't want any of them do I am I the one that wants the mammal sports watches.

00:41:13.000 --> 00:41:16.000
Take your watch? I don't want it I don't want anything?

00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:28.000
Why is it? Whenever you give a woman everything she wants you get so floody minded you don't give me everything I want. You give me everything you want to give me Joanna, your watch. Joanna.

00:41:28.000 --> 00:41:35.000
I love you

00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:38.000
I just think how hot, how hot's that pb so Bbc.

00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:46.000
Suit must be under what substances can you wear a Pbc. So it kind of says something about the characters. it doesn't it, and the scene is about what we've arrived. and we've got all the trappings of everything

00:41:46.000 --> 00:41:51.000
we want but they're but they're not very we don't really want them anymore.

00:41:51.000 --> 00:42:00.000
And I think there's, probably something about a pvc suit that also ticks that box as well, it's that it's sort of desirable and its own weird way.

00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:08.000
But then also sort of completely useless and horrible there's loads of loads of sort of great looks.

00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:11.000
Those are just sort of great clips i'll have to show you some of that.

00:42:11.000 --> 00:42:18.000
Let me show you a slightly longer one. where we get to see

00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:25.000
A bit of packer rabbin now pakistan at the time, and this is what I mean by slightly unwearable.

00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:30.000
I'm wearable fashions what he was doing was he was making

00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:41.000
He wasn't the only one but he was making clothes out of metal clothes, out of bits of metal little metal disks, and the things that you kind of see on on on models in the in in Sunday supplements and at

00:42:41.000 --> 00:42:44.000
fashion shows and things that you kind of think that's amazing.

00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:48.000
But when in reality but anyone ever wear it completely impractical.

00:42:48.000 --> 00:43:00.000
And of course, you know, in a movie is the answer and and to you know, to say something about characters in a in a film. So there's a lovely scene at the end, where, towards the end where kind of things are back to sort

00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:04.000
of going going right for them again. Have a look at this, and you can.

00:43:04.000 --> 00:43:12.000
A a rare moment of audiohabburn in in in Pakistan

00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:19.000
We're doing. I want you to meet my fiance since the Obino Joanna Wallace David's been telling me about you.

00:43:19.000 --> 00:43:24.000
Congratulations. Thank you. Had a phone call from Hal Familyius on.

00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:35.000
I got the job. Good! good going to the States only for 2 years.

00:43:35.000 --> 00:43:42.000
Then you must pay me 10 min I need your advice mark we're gonna see him in Rome on pride on his way through 10 min.

00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:56.000
Huh! Say, i've heard the wonderful news about you and this beautiful girl here, and I only want to say that if you 2 can be as happy as those 2 wonderful people over there and have a marriage like theirs you have to stay to worry

00:43:56.000 --> 00:44:05.000
about. You see, Mark, my problem is very simple. of course, no one else in the scene is wearing address made out bits of metal.

00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:17.000
It's a way of marking her out on screen everyone else suddenly looks very ordinary, whereas another film they're the glamorous. But it's a way of kind of saying we're slightly a cut above the

00:44:17.000 --> 00:44:29.000
film has this lovely kind of scene towards the very end there's a few flashbacks kind of pile in on each other very quickly, and wait, and then we're led back to the sort of have a look at this little moment

00:44:29.000 --> 00:44:35.000
here. It is probably the most kind of contemporary Audrey Button ever gets, and this is

00:44:35.000 --> 00:44:38.000
This is all Mary Conk, which is wearing the glasses up on other people's glasses.

00:44:38.000 --> 00:44:41.000
I've seen i'd love a pair of these losses myself.

00:44:41.000 --> 00:44:51.000
I've seen. Oh, the oliver people still make them they're several £100 seen images from the time of the rolling stones or wearing them, so they all had a bear but they were designed for rogering at them for this

00:44:51.000 --> 00:44:55.000
film bar to peoples, and a bit of quant that she's wearing, I think, in the quant.

00:44:55.000 --> 00:45:01.000
So slightly channel channeling the kind of M. appeal. look of the avengers have a look.

00:45:01.000 --> 00:45:10.000
You have to admit it. we've changed I admit we've changed. It's sad but that it is life.

00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:16.000
At least you're not a bad temper disorganized conceited failure anymore.

00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:31.000
You're a bad temper disorganized conceited success that's possible.

00:45:31.000 --> 00:45:36.000
Wait a minute. it's you know if bad basketball will put a parasite not here.

00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:38.000
Were you No, my passports in here must be in here somewhere.

00:45:38.000 --> 00:45:52.000
I've got a very important meeting in rome i've got to get through

00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:56.000
There you go. probably the most contemporary you ever see.

00:45:56.000 --> 00:46:02.000
Audrey had done. I think that and that's all Mary Quant thinking about those metal dresses.

00:46:02.000 --> 00:46:08.000
Let's finish with something a little bit silly that kind of pokes fun at that.

00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:12.000
I want to show you this because this isn't you probably well, you may not have seen this.

00:46:12.000 --> 00:46:16.000
You might have done It's not a film that's that's rightily available.

00:46:16.000 --> 00:46:23.000
So again I've Got quite a small copy, of it I thought it would be quite fun to look at a little bit of a film called, Who are you, Polly Magu?

00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:29.000
From 1,966 strengths by William Klein, which is a kind of it's a satire about fashion.

00:46:29.000 --> 00:46:35.000
This, but this whole first scene is kind of taking the Mickey out of

00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:48.000
This, This idea of clothes made of metal I think it's really interesting to to think that even at the time people knew that that was Bonkers people knew that it was silly, and it was really unwearable.

00:46:48.000 --> 00:46:51.000
and even cinema audiences would have known that.

00:46:51.000 --> 00:46:56.000
So we get this kind of this kind of fun poking poking at it. have a look at this.

00:46:56.000 --> 00:47:14.000
You'll see exactly what I mean this is the first time

00:47:14.000 --> 00:47:24.000
Thank you.

00:47:24.000 --> 00:47:45.000
That's what is you done just

00:47:45.000 --> 00:48:15.000
I hope you're well, I Miss maxwell can't you know she's lucky that i'd like people shift to live your time

00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:48.000
Don't plan for punching good

00:48:48.000 --> 00:48:56.000
Wasn't good enough

00:48:56.000 --> 00:49:05.000
Number One: Okay.

00:49:05.000 --> 00:49:09.000
Was I sit up surly more than you i'll give him a pipeline make a fail.

00:49:09.000 --> 00:49:16.000
Oh, she did! She moves up on the session booty before.

00:49:16.000 --> 00:49:27.000
We don't know I need

00:49:27.000 --> 00:49:30.000
We'll have to leave next I promise i'd stop at 10 to the hour.

00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:40.000
Questions, and it's a very silly film who are you probably, Mago, but it makes a serious point, and the serious point is that fashion is essentially a kind of stupid and frivolous business.

00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:48.000
And I I end with that as a bit of fun, but I hope it's the session has made you think a little bit about clothes and what they can say about characters on screen.

00:49:48.000 --> 00:50:00.000
And and whether we need designers to understand the kind of the the nuts and bots of filmmaking, or whether you can just drop a design or end, who just makes a certain answer look good.

00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:03.000
And and there's room for both isn't it in some ways.

00:50:03.000 --> 00:50:06.000
But i'll be interested as to which you which you prefer, and which you really liked.

00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:11.000
But there we go, happy to have to stay questions over to you if you don't thank you very much, Christopher.

00:50:11.000 --> 00:50:23.000
That was all. Rather fabulous folks wasn't it and and as a rosemary said, You seem to have picked some of her favorite films, so that's good glad to be a service who's meeting no i'm

00:50:23.000 --> 00:50:28.000
waiting to see if we get some questions in because I think you've stunned everybody in silence.

00:50:28.000 --> 00:50:38.000
Just for Oh, here we go here's one this is this one's from Miranda wasn't the court at the very beginning more orange than red.

00:50:38.000 --> 00:50:45.000
Oh, interesting! Well, I find it again again. Now bear with me a second.

00:50:45.000 --> 00:50:58.000
It may just be the way the film looks. I I I read this as maybe we can take a quick vote on it.

00:50:58.000 --> 00:51:03.000
Let's share this

00:51:03.000 --> 00:51:17.000
What do we think looks red to me you know what i've I've realized actually myself personally, that I have real trouble with things that are at the very end of our engine at the very Our Agenda fred and curiously

00:51:17.000 --> 00:51:20.000
this decide. This is an interesting scientific fact that you can use.

00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:35.000
Women have better vision. Women can discern more shades of red and orange than men, because of the way, because you there's a possibility that women can have 2 different types of of cone in that in the in your dna you can

00:51:35.000 --> 00:51:41.000
women's, acuity for red can be twice as good as men's, because of the way dna works, and only women can be tetrachromats.

00:51:41.000 --> 00:51:46.000
Some women can see more colors entirely than than all men. Men can never be touched, Chromat.

00:51:46.000 --> 00:51:53.000
But I definitely sometimes struggle with like. Sometimes I look at tomatoes, and I think is that red or orange things that are on that cusp.

00:51:53.000 --> 00:51:58.000
But I I do read that as red. Yeah. and I think things like color blame.

00:51:58.000 --> 00:52:03.000
This is a bit more prevalent in men than women as well, which is probably part of it as well.

00:52:03.000 --> 00:52:06.000
Sexualcrimacy is really interesting that's about for another day.

00:52:06.000 --> 00:52:11.000
The general consensus seems to be read i'm not here.

00:52:11.000 --> 00:52:23.000
So, even if it was a very red orange, a very, very bright orange bed, I think it would still be doing the same cinematic job, which is kind of drawing our attention to her, and suggesting These, ideas of danger

00:52:23.000 --> 00:52:31.000
and and passion particularly. I think red red is used as a sort of cinematic code for for those things.

00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:34.000
All that all the time, and and you're very very often in costume. Yeah.

00:52:34.000 --> 00:52:43.000
Okay, but let me have a look through here, and cause even There's some, maybe some comments in here that might be interesting to have a little more over

00:52:43.000 --> 00:52:56.000
So let's say that right Okay, so from Regina she thinks fashion has freed us culturally, and I guess that's probably right.

00:52:56.000 --> 00:53:08.000
Hmm an interesting angle I mean that's that does. that goes a bit beyond what we're looking at

00:53:08.000 --> 00:53:10.000
And it would be interesting to look at maybe at movies.

00:53:10.000 --> 00:53:21.000
That sort of reflect reflect that idea. I think I need more detail on that statement, really Okay, is that interesting, interesting?

00:53:21.000 --> 00:53:25.000
And questions from Sue and this is a personal opinion.

00:53:25.000 --> 00:53:33.000
When I think. do you think Audrey Hepburn is a good actor, because it's quite different to see how that starts.

00:53:33.000 --> 00:53:44.000
And Gibbons, she, and looking like almost like the same character all the time, and then seeing her later, and some of the other designers, I think I think Audrey Hepburn is a good actor.

00:53:44.000 --> 00:53:49.000
I like crm screen I suspect, like a lot of film stars.

00:53:49.000 --> 00:53:55.000
At the time she was probably never quite given material. That was a long way out of her range.

00:53:55.000 --> 00:54:00.000
She came up through the fifties and early sixtys and into the late sixtys at a time.

00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:05.000
Really when the studio instead in Hollywood is kind of is kind of on the Wayne.

00:54:05.000 --> 00:54:08.000
But actors are very much put in boxes. You were, you know you were.

00:54:08.000 --> 00:54:26.000
You were a time, and you and you would get the roles that fit your as like a like a gang land leader in an early seventys gritty thriller.

00:54:26.000 --> 00:54:36.000
I mean, could she do it? Did she would you have the range of something like that? I don't know I would love to see Audrey Hepburn cast against Hype more because she is always the you know the the the

00:54:36.000 --> 00:54:41.000
casting agent. Is it's sort of in collaboration with the studio of just that.

00:54:41.000 --> 00:54:45.000
Well, we want to. Yeah, we want Audrey help and there's that old that on Hollywood adage that you start with.

00:54:45.000 --> 00:54:48.000
Like get me you start with like who's audrey he burned.

00:54:48.000 --> 00:54:53.000
Then It's get me, Audrey Hair burn and it's get me a young Audrey hat burn, and then it's Who's Audrey Hepburn?

00:54:53.000 --> 00:55:02.000
And you go through that cycle, but you know when you're when you're hot, your hot and definitely these days act act more are allowed to stretch their range more.

00:55:02.000 --> 00:55:11.000
But coming through in the fiftys, and sixtys I don't think she ever would have the opportunity to prove she was, if she really was a versatile actor.

00:55:11.000 --> 00:55:21.000
But she's always good on screen you always feel that she's You always feel that she's safe so even though she doesn't exhibit the range you might want I would definitely put her in the box of good actors that's

00:55:21.000 --> 00:55:36.000
a long martial question. Okay, So a bit more of a comment from an isn't isn't the job of the designer to contribute to informing a subcatic trouble that's true isn't it what they're there

00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:43.000
for so I mean these these moments where like an actor has a sort of favorite designer that come in and design stuff for them.

00:55:43.000 --> 00:55:54.000
So that's that that they're relatively rare and that's kind of what I was you know what I was hoping to to hide and say how how they can work or or not work so eve santa

00:55:54.000 --> 00:56:00.000
Ron seem to understand what you you know if it'd been if it'd been a a cinematic costume designer. he would.

00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:06.000
He would have been good at it, would humor Chiwan. She had been good at it. Could he address someone else in the same way?

00:56:06.000 --> 00:56:21.000
What's that? Okay, we've got a comment from Lyndon as well, and in the in the film, the timidance seat and the red that do Your address Julie Andrews to timeless but the clothes dated

00:56:21.000 --> 00:56:25.000
very quickly. That would have been a good one to include today.

00:56:25.000 --> 00:56:30.000
Actually you're right yes, and you know that's that is the thing about very fashionable clothes.

00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:40.000
They do they do date, they do date very quickly I mean That's even, you know, if Santa Ros designs are a bit more time, especially you know you look at you look at Belgium, and it doesn't mean it didn't

00:56:40.000 --> 00:56:47.000
Stop! screams late sixties not quite as much as the as the 2 for the road clips, but it does it.

00:56:47.000 --> 00:56:50.000
Yeah, there's no way you can you can not things that you just take to be completely normal in their time.

00:56:50.000 --> 00:56:56.000
They try. and you look back and go well people wore that even if it's even if it seems completely ordinary at the time.

00:56:56.000 --> 00:57:02.000
So yeah, you're right to be to bring in a you know to have like contemporary fashions in a film.

00:57:02.000 --> 00:57:05.000
You're immediately saying, this one will look dated in 51050 years.

00:57:05.000 --> 00:57:10.000
Yeah, Yeah. So a couple of people have asked the same question.

00:57:10.000 --> 00:57:23.000
Basically Sue and Susan and the current film director still work with specific designers and included in that you know some of the big famous designers that we we know about in the fashion world.

00:57:23.000 --> 00:57:41.000
They do and they don't it would it depends and interestingly, probably the last really big one of those I can think of is look best on and doing the the fifth element that's late ninetys I think of that

00:57:41.000 --> 00:57:48.000
as a recent film, because I know the feeling so.

00:57:48.000 --> 00:57:54.000
Those were the the fifth element stuff is all done by

00:57:54.000 --> 00:58:01.000
Assign his name won't come to me someone put it in the chat, or i'll look it up for you.

00:58:01.000 --> 00:58:09.000
But no, the the designing clothes specifically for for film and for Tv is a bit more of a closed shop.

00:58:09.000 --> 00:58:16.000
When you see stuff that's made clothes that are made specifically for film

00:58:16.000 --> 00:58:23.000
A lot of them are rubbish unless they're designed to be shot in real close-up, and and designed to look a particular way.

00:58:23.000 --> 00:58:37.000
They are, you know, a lot of the banks banged together, so it's not the same it's not the same discipline as making as as making you know sort of cure clothes, or even sort of off the bag

00:58:37.000 --> 00:58:41.000
of the bag clothes. Hmm: Okay, right well we've got some more questions.

00:58:41.000 --> 00:58:46.000
So we'll just run on for a little bit to to look at these

00:58:46.000 --> 00:59:00.000
Now let me just look hold on 1 s we've got lots and lots of cool, which I will make sure you get a copy of later, and from Rosemary, who, who who has seen a lot of her favorite films to do and she's

00:59:00.000 --> 00:59:15.000
asking about maybe some other iconic 60 phones. darling servant, for example, how important is fashion in those I think we need to make a distinction between fashion and and clothes.

00:59:15.000 --> 00:59:25.000
You know clothes per se, because how you know clothes are incredibly important, and from whenever I watch films with my wife, and there's something on screen that it's that kind of seems meaningful.

00:59:25.000 --> 00:59:28.000
She quite often goes. Do you think that's meant to be that?

00:59:28.000 --> 00:59:35.000
And I always say, yeah, every everything is meant to be there, every little nuance of whatever you see, is meant to be there.

00:59:35.000 --> 00:59:42.000
So. every sort of detail of how someone dresses and what they wear can be, can be really utilized.

00:59:42.000 --> 00:59:48.000
To tell you something about that character. Does this Does something button up in a certain way, you know. Does it? does it fit them?

00:59:48.000 --> 00:59:53.000
That's always a really interesting one. you can put characters in clothes that are slightly too big to make them.

00:59:53.000 --> 01:00:00.000
Look to sort of make the to sort of shrink them down on screen, or you can put them in things that are too small to make them look to the bigger and and more powerful.

01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:06.000
That there's you know it's it you can do so much with it.

01:00:06.000 --> 01:00:14.000
And then you have this kind of error as Well, that's sort of slightly prior to this, and a lot of film you are what in love of their thirties and forties movies,

01:00:14.000 --> 01:00:20.000
Men quite often wore their own clothes. so humphrey Bogar in a lot of those kind of Warner brothers movies.

01:00:20.000 --> 01:00:29.000
It's quite often just barring the sits that he turned up in which I find bizarre that he would just turn up, and they'd just be like yeah what what you're wearing is good i'm free put the script down and we'll start and we'll

01:00:29.000 --> 01:00:36.000
start filming you think Wow! that's completely the complete the other end of the spectrum, like we've sweated over every detail of what this character is wearing.

01:00:36.000 --> 01:00:40.000
But you know great, but your good stuff, maybe he just you know didn't it?

01:00:40.000 --> 01:00:48.000
It's part of that thing isn't it of casting Humphrey Bogart in the way that you would comest order a Hepburn because you want because you want bogart you want you want

01:00:48.000 --> 01:00:56.000
headburn and they mean more to the audience than the count as they're playing and like I say fashion.

01:00:56.000 --> 01:01:11.000
It itself can sometimes data picture can sometimes data film. It can sometimes pin a film too too closely to its era whereas the kind of things you can do with costume in telling you something about a character are a bit more a bit more

01:01:11.000 --> 01:01:17.000
timeless. Okay, right we've got time for another couple of questions.

01:01:17.000 --> 01:01:25.000
We still got quite a few questions, but I don't think We're gonna have time for them All everybody But what we will do is Take the other ones a week, and we'll try and answer them afterwards.

01:01:25.000 --> 01:01:28.000
So let me just it's far any far any right?

01:01:28.000 --> 01:01:35.000
Okay, Well, let's look here. question from deborah Do you know who designed M.

01:01:35.000 --> 01:01:44.000
Appeals wardrobe now, I do and the Emma. I can't think of the guy's name for a while.

01:01:44.000 --> 01:01:50.000
You could buy the you could buy em at peel's water, but it was designed to be

01:01:50.000 --> 01:01:58.000
I want to say Sinclair something, Dave Sinclair I can find out for sure.

01:01:58.000 --> 01:02:01.000
But you could buy. you could buy the Mpr water.

01:02:01.000 --> 01:02:05.000
So in that in that sort of fifth series of the avengers where Mml.

01:02:05.000 --> 01:02:13.000
Starts wearing those kind of the sort of track suit onety kind of suits that she wears for doing kung fu and and things You could buy those those for sale in the in the High Street.

01:02:13.000 --> 01:02:22.000
So you could. You could get your very own your very own one and So that's like a I don't know how many people did.

01:02:22.000 --> 01:02:37.000
I've certainly haven't haven't seen any surviving I don't think but it's really interesting that the the makers of the event just thought well this is you know this is a potential this the potential

01:02:37.000 --> 01:02:45.000
tie in that something that people would spend would spend the money it's such an iconic look that Look! That's why I sort of referred to it at the end of 2 for the road.

01:02:45.000 --> 01:02:50.000
Because the the bit of Mary quant that she's wearing looks, I think it looks very much out of the same So the stable as those are.

01:02:50.000 --> 01:02:54.000
It's sort of in up it Looks out of action it looks like you can do action in it.

01:02:54.000 --> 01:03:03.000
But but yes, no. The name of the actual designer escaped me, but I have. I have. We can we can get that afterwards.

01:03:03.000 --> 01:03:10.000
Can't we we're right okay no question from Madeline.

01:03:10.000 --> 01:03:12.000
Now you talked a little bit when you were talking about.

01:03:12.000 --> 01:03:17.000
I think it was Eastern wrong about, you know, designing the clothes for the film for the characters.

01:03:17.000 --> 01:03:23.000
And then some of those clothes ended up, back out into the fashion routes and for people to buy.

01:03:23.000 --> 01:03:27.000
And Madeline is asking has been responsible for the questions ever made.

01:03:27.000 --> 01:03:33.000
The designer a commercial success. So and I think I think what Madeline's meaning is a costume designer.

01:03:33.000 --> 01:03:37.000
That then has gone on to commercial success off the back of Hmm.

01:03:37.000 --> 01:03:49.000
I can't think of a cinematic costume designer that's ever kind of stepped out of that box and kind of sold sole versions of the clothes that people wanted that that Mmm i'm assuming

01:03:49.000 --> 01:03:56.000
you ever saw. The wrong was very well known before. He then went on to the name for Catherine to know.

01:03:56.000 --> 01:04:00.000
Been doing that, for you know the best part of a decade by the time you did that.

01:04:00.000 --> 01:04:04.000
So yeah, you you could you? You would definitely sort of walk into Eve, son, or on the next year and go.

01:04:04.000 --> 01:04:08.000
Look, there are those trench coats, and there are those Rosa Vva.

01:04:08.000 --> 01:04:12.000
Shoes, and you know, and and so the look kind of trickled down to the High Street.

01:04:12.000 --> 01:04:15.000
I think often the look of things like that in films.

01:04:15.000 --> 01:04:26.000
Film fashion does trickle down to the high street but not always at the hands of the person that's done the designing, because the person person that's doing cinematic costume design is probably just onto

01:04:26.000 --> 01:04:35.000
the next bit of cinema designing unless they've got a particular specialty in doing historical things, or you know, unless they're an expert in certain fields. they'll be dressed just dressing other characters and moving on

01:04:35.000 --> 01:04:47.000
it's only where you need to have the connections to kind of bring it to the High Street, and make money, which is why I think only really people that start as that start us as fashion designers by saying I've been able

01:04:47.000 --> 01:04:55.000
to to do that right? Okay, we're going to take one more question. and then I promise you, after the any other questions, that will take these away.

01:04:55.000 --> 01:05:00.000
Somebody just says, jump will go to a fifth adam and that's the name i'll start going with.

01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:13.000
Yeah, Jean Bogotier designed not just the not just the costumes for for Bruce, Willis and Millieovovitch, but he designed and hand crafted himself a 100 extras costumes so every extra in

01:05:13.000 --> 01:05:18.000
that film is wearing an original piece of John Paul Goier, which he made with his own hand.

01:05:18.000 --> 01:05:29.000
So it must have been incredibly busy to. But the fifth element was at the time the most expensive movie made outside of Hollywood, and still is the second most expensive movie man outside of Hollywood.

01:05:29.000 --> 01:05:38.000
Whatever and he was quite big at roamed about that point as well wasn't he on pole too, it's very late ninetys It it all fits, but to make all those costumes I mean that's a lot of work and to do them

01:05:38.000 --> 01:05:41.000
all himself not just delegate them to a to a lackeys.

01:05:41.000 --> 01:05:50.000
It's that is that really of something. yeah okay right we've got what we're gonna take one more question, and then we'll take the rest of the way. Everybody and we'll do what we can to get those answered afterwards.

01:05:50.000 --> 01:05:52.000
And we will push them up beside the recording of the lecture.

01:05:52.000 --> 01:05:59.000
Once we we get that, get that upon the members sites. So this is a question from Jenny.

01:05:59.000 --> 01:06:07.000
Why do? you think Hollywood is dominated in contrast to French cinema, which seems much more fashion conscious?

01:06:07.000 --> 01:06:20.000
Interesting question isn't it it is an interesting question I what I really love about French cinema, And this may be a partial answer to this question: I love how, when you go to France you're see posters for

01:06:20.000 --> 01:06:26.000
films that look amazing. They look like Hollywood movies, or they look like sort of big wrongcoms or dramas, or things like that.

01:06:26.000 --> 01:06:30.000
And you think Oh, I wonder if i'll see that coming to the Uk.

01:06:30.000 --> 01:06:37.000
And they never do. They have got. The French are fantastic sort of insularizing their culture.

01:06:37.000 --> 01:06:43.000
They have the so many fantastic French movies never make it outside France, and in some ways they don't care.

01:06:43.000 --> 01:06:46.000
It's a bit like French music it's a little like French pop stars!

01:06:46.000 --> 01:06:56.000
A lot of them, you think. Oh, whatever happens to sound so it's like there's still an enormous star in France setting platinum records in France, but just never going outside the borders of France and I think the film

01:06:56.000 --> 01:07:01.000
industry works there in to a degree in quite in in the same sort of way.

01:07:01.000 --> 01:07:08.000
They're very happy to just be enormous in France and not necessarily break overseas.

01:07:08.000 --> 01:07:12.000
It's just a cultural thing more than any other nation's cinema.

01:07:12.000 --> 01:07:17.000
I think they're a bit like that so that might be partially responsible for it.

01:07:17.000 --> 01:07:31.000
Bottom line. they're just they don't really care that much they're they're happy to to make a a load of money, and and it's inside the French the French film industry. But of course people do watch French films they

01:07:31.000 --> 01:07:35.000
do, and and I don't know I mean in terms of influence Do they influence the way?

01:07:35.000 --> 01:07:37.000
The way Hollywood films look at French films.

01:07:37.000 --> 01:07:42.000
Do have a really certain look them the way they and I love seeing France on screen.

01:07:42.000 --> 01:07:52.000
I love seeing Paris on screen. I love it How when you go to Paris. it looks like it still looks like it does in in Belgium. like we're just walking around you kind of think Oh, Yeah, Paris. Still, looks exactly.

01:07:52.000 --> 01:08:00.000
Like that. london's changed so much. and New York has changed if you look at films shot in New York in the sixtys and seventys it looks completely different.

01:08:00.000 --> 01:08:10.000
But Paris is kind of as a slightly more sort of permanent look about it, but it's and i'm and yeah, no, Actually, I I love that about it.

01:08:10.000 --> 01:08:26.000
But yeah, in terms of an influence. And the the that influence on other on other films. That, I mean, that is really interesting is that I I suppose that must to some degree be the answer that they're not really interested in influence out what would that influence look like I

01:08:26.000 --> 01:08:35.000
mean are the British? Is the British film industry going to make thumbs that are that look particularly sort of stylish and Gallic? Have we got it in us?

01:08:35.000 --> 01:08:39.000
Good that could. Could Hollywood do that I don't think anyone even really tries?

01:08:39.000 --> 01:08:53.000
I think we just, I think, visually the rest of the world is quite happy to let France be France, and have that certain, that very sort of specific and just and and sort of unique way, that they, the they they portray their own country, and

01:08:53.000 --> 01:08:57.000
that. and and the people in it I can't think of anyone that does that that does that as well.

01:08:57.000 --> 01:09:10.000
So I guess. Yeah. again, a long answer short. question. I guess the answer is that possibly they're just not that interested in being influential in in quite that way. Okay, Well, folks, I think we need to wrap it up There It's 10

01:09:10.000 --> 01:09:15.000
past 6. No, and that was absolutely fabulous. I hope everybody enjoyed that.

00:00:16.000 --> 00:00:26.000
Welcome to everybody, and thank you very much for coming to that to my lecture.

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I hope you will enjoy it. so we're going to be talking about these, so I shall get going with the

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I've got to share my screen with you other than to do on Google slide show.

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Okay, we did. That is completely up. then, okay? so so what we're doing today.

00:00:48.000 --> 00:01:00.000
Is, we are looking at saving to be and we're looking at the impact of food of modern food productions on in population.

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And we're going to see? Why, why do we like things so much?

00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:12.000
What is it about these I think it's so interesting also why are they so important?

00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:21.000
Okay, So we're going to be discovering the variety of species. Of these we're going to look at license and habitats.

00:01:21.000 --> 00:01:25.000
Things we can do to encourage them into our own outside spaces.

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Okay, we're going to look at the importance of these within farming, and can get practices within farming that that actually affects in populations.

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I'm going to talk a little bit at home production? and look at. Is it really part of farming?

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Is it something that we didn't just dominate or is it actually an industry in its own month?

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So we have a variety of Ccs in the Uk.

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We actually have about 230 varieties of things in the Uk.

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They do look different. but sometimes we just say So we have 4 main types of varieties.

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We have Mason bes. We have mining these.

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Unfortunately, but not yeah. We saw the 2 things in but we also have We've got to be and a cop into these.

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But, Mason, these are mining. These are the most likely solid treaties that you've noticed in your outside space, and then we have one billing, and of course honeybee and both of those are social beings so they

00:02:35.000 --> 00:02:42.000
live in large groups. So first of all, Oh, these are all pictures of them.

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Hi, Samuel, we're going to just have a little quick look at mixing these

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These are very common. they nest in hollow spaces and I don't know if you've seen the little bandwidth houses.

00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:07.000
You can get them in the garden centers and things and they're, like lots and lots of victims, and all put together, and those are designed for mason bees, mason.

00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:11.000
These like a hollow, so they all solitary base.

00:03:11.000 --> 00:03:18.000
Very nice in Hello, Tweaks Hollow trees .

00:03:18.000 --> 00:03:23.000
Little little areas, but also Okay, which is why they got the name.

00:03:23.000 --> 00:03:30.000
They like soft crumbly makes me so and they will make little tons.

00:03:30.000 --> 00:03:41.000
So they actually make tools about 4 inches long, out sort of 10 cm long, and what they do is, and that shows you a bit in the bottom picture.

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Here we have little spaces, so they they go into the far end of the tunnel.

00:03:47.000 --> 00:03:55.000
They will put some some pollen in that and they'll lay an egg, and then they will stop right up with some.

00:03:55.000 --> 00:04:03.000
But and then the next one along that puts another egg more fallen, and stop right up with mud, and can see that yellow bits in the picture a problem.

00:04:03.000 --> 00:04:12.000
And then the mud stop. bring it up to keep doing that until they fill up the whole office 4 inch little tune

00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:18.000
And they fill them up on end of these will actually hatch in order on their come out.

00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:26.000
So this and one never see actually come out first. So the lava will hatch, and they actually could paint in autumn.

00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:31.000
Okay be like all insects. if you think about Dr.

00:04:31.000 --> 00:04:34.000
Slides. We all know about they go into a queue.

00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:42.000
But i'mended to come up to fly with the same thing happens in effect of the and you have an egg a little little group.

00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:55.000
If the then they pipe and then they've come on the pupilating rather can survive them to in that sense.

00:04:55.000 --> 00:05:01.000
Okay, we're not into it didn't work okay so We're going.

00:05:01.000 --> 00:05:07.000
That's how they look at my now, these things are lucky They're not little ginger footballs.

00:05:07.000 --> 00:05:10.000
Does that be very healthy, and they tend to be quite ginger.

00:05:10.000 --> 00:05:17.000
There are various sorts of our most common. One is the little ginger on and I bye.

00:05:17.000 --> 00:05:28.000
They make sense in us, and then like very very light soils, and they will borrow into soils, and there's a picture at the bottom of the screen.

00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:40.000
Sounds like a volcano of this i've got to actually wear a mining being the dog out a little tunnel, so it can lay a day at the bottom. Okay, So it's like a little volcano of

00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:54.000
soft. so on the top of the of the graphs I mean Sometimes I think hasn't been in my garden, and thought it was a a a worm test, but some if it looks like a volcano it's

00:05:54.000 --> 00:06:00.000
not to work. you got into your goal in the world.

00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:07.000
Okay, I actually don't have my need to mind online I have I was too heavy for them.

00:06:07.000 --> 00:06:13.000
Alright, Yeah, Now it's just this is exciting phone buildings.

00:06:13.000 --> 00:06:22.000
We all have a bumblebee and if they you know the Sunday, the larger the social insects.

00:06:22.000 --> 00:06:31.000
They live in commonly up to about 200 workers and queens built next of dried masses.

00:06:31.000 --> 00:06:47.000
And like all these, the work has gathered pollen and nectar, and they feed on Problem the new queens and the the nails drones at the end of the scenes, so sort of coming up just at the

00:06:47.000 --> 00:06:57.000
end of summer new Qu Queens hatched nail these hatch, and they will make the drones, you know they're all trying to make the wrong queen.

00:06:57.000 --> 00:07:03.000
But as soon as they related Yup, the males will die.

00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:10.000
Unfortunately, okay, and also the workers at the end of the season will die as well as old queens will die.

00:07:10.000 --> 00:07:21.000
So the only ones hibernate with b will be only these that hi the name of the new meetings ready for next year, and they're able to hide the motor.

00:07:21.000 --> 00:07:28.000
One of these is quite interesting, because they are the only things that can actually generate their own body.

00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:42.000
So all of these are able to, within the muscles that to their wing muscles the muscles that make the wings flat, they are able to produce actual heat.

00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:47.000
So all insects are cold blooded. What will be? because of this?

00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:59.000
They can actually make a little bit of heat for themselves so That's the very, very first thing that you will usually see out in the garden in the spring, and they're very often then very last ones.

00:07:59.000 --> 00:08:04.000
That you see in the old term, because they are able to produce this little bit of heat.

00:08:04.000 --> 00:08:21.000
It gives them that advantage. you can build you can make little nests feel free in your garden. If you've got a garden or an outside space, you can have an upturned pot you fill it up with you know drive graphs then it's upside down to the hot

00:08:21.000 --> 00:08:27.000
and you can make people if you go from movies in your area.

00:08:27.000 --> 00:08:39.000
Correct. Okay, honey beans honey bees are there the bees that we all love?

00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:43.000
We all have a honey bee because they nice to me.

00:08:43.000 --> 00:08:49.000
How many days are interesting because we domesticated some thousands and thousands of years.

00:08:49.000 --> 00:08:53.000
We as humans are, we like honey. we like sweet things.

00:08:53.000 --> 00:09:02.000
And so we have actually exploit honeybees for thousands of years, and pretty much.

00:09:02.000 --> 00:09:09.000
Now all, how do these are domesticated? You find very few wild populations can be.

00:09:09.000 --> 00:09:23.000
Now, if you do find wild populations they will be in woods, so their natural habits would be But it's quite rare to find them like that.

00:09:23.000 --> 00:09:32.000
These days, especially somewhere like 15, and we know that honey been used for thousands of years by humans.

00:09:32.000 --> 00:09:39.000
And because their jobs are planning have been found actually in tools, you know, in Egypt.

00:09:39.000 --> 00:09:50.000
And in pyramids and old tunes around the world you sometimes find jars of honey which have been left with the with the person that died to help them in the afterlife.

00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:58.000
Usually some of that honey has actually been tested and it's still being okay.

00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:04.000
I mean, i'm not sure I want to eat it got to catch you been surprising how because it's basically pure sugar.

00:10:04.000 --> 00:10:12.000
It. it goes to buy, or ridiculous length of time it gets from poppy sealed.

00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:30.000
So every year a new queen because the clean is the only thing in the honeymoon, that will actually make. So the queens there to just lay it and she's very very big and she doesn't do much

00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:38.000
she's looked after completely by the work of these and all she does is and have to be end of.

00:10:38.000 --> 00:10:51.000
Yeah, you know So and in the ultimate she will either completely replace her mother.

00:10:51.000 --> 00:10:54.000
You know the old queen, she might be taken out of the hive.

00:10:54.000 --> 00:11:07.000
All you know, for the new group to start a new colony, and that's why sometimes you get sworn into fees in the autumn. that's when a new queen is second somebody workers with that just got her own

00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:13.000
colony. So what we're going to look at now is those are just the baby.

00:11:13.000 --> 00:11:17.000
So we've got the social we've got the yeah solitudes.

00:11:17.000 --> 00:11:27.000
And now we're going to have a little look at well making we can do to help the health encourage fees and to increase in populations.

00:11:27.000 --> 00:11:33.000
So obviously honey bees are completely domesticated, and so they are managed.

00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:43.000
But all of the other bees being bumblebees and assembly, and the the mining.

00:11:43.000 --> 00:11:55.000
These all of them are be, which are completely wild, and they do rely on flowers to to get pollen unactive to me, to survive.

00:11:55.000 --> 00:12:08.000
So our like outside spaces i'm provide food for them the way we manage our own outside space can really help and really make a difference.

00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:13.000
So this here is a picture of a very, very lovely room to Denver.

00:12:13.000 --> 00:12:22.000
I have to admit it is in my garden. but that that was very early in the spring.

00:12:22.000 --> 00:12:28.000
18 full of these, these love are votedndrome.

00:12:28.000 --> 00:12:39.000
So what we can do? add to attract these into our outside spaces.

00:12:39.000 --> 00:12:46.000
Really. we only need to 3 things they just need something to do.

00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:58.000
Some 2 flowers. They need so much to drink So we need to provide some water that they can kind of drink from. and this is done today.

00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:15.000
That's all it's quite straightforward and actually, even if you only have a small little balcony, you can still grow something that will attract these or you can provide a little source of water.

00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:24.000
From these, so we can all do something to attract people

00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:32.000
So we'll start off with zoom. so food. thanks thank you. Thank you.

00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:42.000
They feed on home. And next, okay, the pollen is very important to provide a lot of proteins or to protein and open problem which you need for growth.

00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:47.000
Next to contains a lot of sugar and she'll go as what the be used for energy.

00:13:47.000 --> 00:13:53.000
So they need both. So what do you really want within your garden?

00:13:53.000 --> 00:14:04.000
If you can, is to make sure that there's something in your garden, that flowers very, very right through to the end of the autumn.

00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:18.000
So if you have a big garden that's not so difficult to do It's a smaller darwin's not so easy. but you might want to think I've only got to do about today, but this big park, nearby so i'm

00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:22.000
going to grow something that's how it's savior in India.

00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:30.000
So the very first piece can have some next to stop more or you might want to sound like ultimate flowers.

00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:40.000
I'll bring something that flows into the autumn so if you've got the opportunity to run something clouds you know the flowers throughout the year.

00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:59.000
Then that's great. if you can have that you can So these really like, single type of flowers. So you know, you can get those waiting pretty pretty flowers, you know that some very very commonly double chicken type of

00:14:59.000 --> 00:15:10.000
flowers, things like Well, roses, or a good example, because, you know, the wild roses are just a single actual flower and things.

00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:25.000
Yeah, hold on the neck to home. But then some of the very, very fancy roses have multiple apples, and that makes it a little more difficult for me to get

00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:34.000
No, the nectar and the column so they're not a single pack of flower, and some of the most successful flowers.

00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:43.000
For these are things like tying flowers mink flowers herbs are very good.

00:15:43.000 --> 00:15:46.000
I love you'll see a picture I think like toronto raspberries.

00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:51.000
I've got that phase at all and i'm really very lucky to have them.

00:15:51.000 --> 00:16:12.000
But because they flower very early and I had lots of flowers, and the very simple flowers, maybe so single flowers. it is the pictures, I've got in here we've got

00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:22.000
a box club of these love a box stuff. They can just pop, crawl up into the middle, and the other dollar is, is it working on the end like flower chai?

00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:29.000
Something like that for the bees to get pollen, unnecessary phone.

00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:34.000
And so I need to wild flowers. I think this thing a lot, you know.

00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:40.000
If you look at a lot of things in India they'll say oh, you've got to have wild flowers in You've got them.

00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:46.000
But actually, these are not fussing and they don't have to have wild flowers.

00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:53.000
If you grow flowers that you like something like snap dragons or your herbs, if you like them.

00:16:53.000 --> 00:16:59.000
The bees are going to like some too those are simple flowers. so it doesn't have to be wild flowers.

00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:08.000
Okay, you know, especially if you've only got a small area you love them to want really to grow a pot of buttercups.

00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:17.000
But you might like to throw a these fees would prefer and use might enjoy looking at as well.

00:17:17.000 --> 00:17:28.000
Okay, So don't feed for go miles. the other thing you can do is if you have a lawn, you can know it unless often.

00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:37.000
You can not I don't know if any of you have done this, and some of you might have done this this year.

00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:46.000
There was no May, and people were encouraged not to load them all the way to that thing.

00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:54.000
Daisies and the bucket crops, and whatever well to do you all the damned alliance is love the dandelion

00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:58.000
So that goes through our So you might want to do that.

00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:02.000
You might want to just leave a touch of your law that you never know

00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:10.000
So you that flowers, the wild flowers flourishing will catch a role that's not to make a difference.

00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:21.000
You can grow fruits and vegetables, so lots of boots and plants things like black apples.

00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:29.000
It plums all of those flowers we like, and they do tend to flow very in spring.

00:18:29.000 --> 00:18:34.000
So those are flowering before you know the backing phones.

00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:40.000
Rooms, and so on. and if you've got room and you like from that that can be good.

00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:50.000
People are vegetables, and if you leave a few of them to just go to flower, you know I I do see purple scratching.

00:18:50.000 --> 00:19:05.000
This year I cut purple sprouting, but towards the end no books pronouncing the Survey and I just let them flower, and is really like those 2.

00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:10.000
And the courting interesting actually because they're part of what's called bracket.

00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:17.000
Her family habage family. that that's Why, I was actually just yellow on the very simple flowers.

00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:32.000
These really enjoy visiting those I don't know if any of you actually seeing you know what i'm sure everybody's seeing fields and yellow. the rake fields that farmers are growing now and then I walked

00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:36.000
through a field recently that had well in the spring that had rape in it.

00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:40.000
I haven't realized that rape is actually part of the Brassica family.

00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:47.000
It's. It is another type of cabbage hi for family.

00:19:47.000 --> 00:19:53.000
So these were really like visiting right sales as well.

00:19:53.000 --> 00:19:57.000
And then flowering her you Know as i've just mentioned time?

00:19:57.000 --> 00:20:02.000
Where is really linked all of those chimes, all of those things seem to relax.

00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:09.000
They like to happen as well, having there is sort of it's almost it's almost her isn't it.

00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:19.000
So Microsoft teams. Yeah. Well, I grew it last year.

00:20:19.000 --> 00:20:30.000
This year on that So once it flowers, it can be flowering fully in the next couple of weeks, and the beings will visit that as well and hopefully.

00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:38.000
I might get some seeds. So the next year, bye

00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:43.000
The other thing that we need is water, so these they need to drink.

00:20:43.000 --> 00:20:55.000
I we don't really think of insectspring, but actually they do each thing so they quite like to they need shallow, so they don't want to drown.

00:20:55.000 --> 00:21:06.000
So if you've got a little dish that you can put out in the garb or a small bird that the picture is showing bees on the edge of a bird, back.

00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:13.000
Actually something like a shadow dish. Have a bird path.

00:21:13.000 --> 00:21:18.000
I have used one of those and the things that you can put a pop on.

00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:23.000
Just filled up with water, just a plastic one, and not to work really well.

00:21:23.000 --> 00:21:26.000
And that's like it, too. the hedgehogs.

00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:32.000
Thank you to teaching tonight. Then you got phones.

00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:37.000
If you put upon that great, but if you have deep water, you just need to add something to that.

00:21:37.000 --> 00:21:42.000
The base can land on it. because they can't run the water, and then take off again.

00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:53.000
Yeah, not so i'm not like to see you right so they do need something, so you might want to just put some stones, and in so that they just put on the water.

00:21:53.000 --> 00:22:03.000
All cooks will do as well you know they don't make it look as good

00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:09.000
And there we go. Oh, sorry we're going straight on speed why, these are important.

00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:13.000
Houses for these. I should have said that before. Let me just go back a bit.

00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:19.000
Hey? to provide someone to what you want to, You might.

00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:27.000
You might want to buy the little to the houses. You can buy all sorts of things that you can make from yourself.

00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:33.000
So little little sort of shouted Spots for your beans to there.

00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:42.000
My neighbor has Mason be actually in his in his house, or in the world of his house.

00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:57.000
He thinks it's possible to so it's just so in your own house outside space. it's someone something to eat, something's drinking the way to live. Well, that's all we all need hi next Okay.

00:22:57.000 --> 00:23:07.000
so these are really important. We need the pollination, and this is one that this is the raspberry phones.

00:23:07.000 --> 00:23:15.000
Okay, don't look too closely at least I know there's something on them that's great plan to go if they they need pollinating.

00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:20.000
All that soft groups need culminating all of our vegetables.

00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:27.000
We we need combination problem

00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:43.000
Buzzing things going around. Okay, not just we eat needs policy pollinated by these I mean all of the serial crops holiday to find wind no things.

00:23:43.000 --> 00:23:50.000
But anything that's fruit will need to have been called

00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:59.000
I think last piece and Deans they need This is quite interesting.

00:23:59.000 --> 00:24:07.000
This is just a graph, really, and i'm not gonna go in with the details of the numbers, because it doesn't really matter too much.

00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:19.000
But but the dark blue is this is the daily calories of per person, or my types of food that people have eaten in the past.

00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:28.000
And what is predicting for them to be in the future and I think what's quite interesting, because across the top this bit across the top.

00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:37.000
This thing is the number of calories provided by each different type of food, and in 1970 the total number of calories.

00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:56.000
This is from man that was eaten was about 2,400 calories a day, and if you look at 2,010, it's the middle mom we have gone up to simple Dane calories.

00:24:56.000 --> 00:25:02.000
All I, an average mom, is about 2,800 calories.

00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:18.000
So we are eating more now than we're in 1972, and I think that's interesting in excel because we know that there is a problem either with people weighing more than they used to because of each more than they

00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:21.000
used to, but of course we're also taller than we used to be so.

00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:27.000
We need a bit tweet to bit more. so there is more to it than just calories that you need to.

00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:32.000
But what's interesting is the dark blue is serial through 2 pulses.

00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:38.000
So serials are winged. but

00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:42.000
And roots are things like Kara. How nice potatoes!

00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:53.000
You know that sort of thing, so they will grow and we tend to pick those before they flower that we do need some to flour.

00:25:53.000 --> 00:25:57.000
So we've got seeds with 2 to the next year.

00:25:57.000 --> 00:26:06.000
Okay, and the ones that we are growing proceed to next year need to be polluted by these health phase.

00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:18.000
All things like peas and beans. they need to be implemented by these, because pulses are actually the seed of phones.

00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:25.000
So they all the If you, If you regard me, you will know that the pulses are the actually see.

00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:36.000
So all of those need to be pollinated by E shook up. Most of the sugar that we have in Britain is produced in Britain, and it is made from sugar.

00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:44.000
Beat, so that works in the same way as harrison things they don't need to flower just to get before we harvest them.

00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:50.000
But we need to have some as a flowering ready for the next year.

00:26:50.000 --> 00:27:05.000
Vegetable oils. this is interesting and we're reading more and more vegetable loads than we used to, and I don't know some of you might remember if you're old enough to remember the 1976 but people

00:27:05.000 --> 00:27:17.000
in 1970 would use less oil than they do now. so people in 90 70 were far more likely to use Flood to cook with.

00:27:17.000 --> 00:27:21.000
Say that if you were frying bacon or something Chips, you would use lab.

00:27:21.000 --> 00:27:28.000
Whereas these things we use a lot more oil, because we we proceeded to be more healthy.

00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:35.000
So if we, if we're using more vegetable oil farmers, have to grow more crops to make vegetable loans.

00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:43.000
So those yellow fields of rank talking about the the rape flowers.

00:27:43.000 --> 00:27:57.000
It's set seed and the oil comes from the seed, and I you might have also seen the blue fields and that's been again the same past. the flower the oil comes from the seed.

00:27:57.000 --> 00:28:03.000
So those needs to be pollinated bye. ids.

00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:09.000
These are not the only pollinator, but they are the name one neat.

00:28:09.000 --> 00:28:14.000
Now that obviously meet is neat, correct in Britain at least.

00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:24.000
Most of our livestock is crazy on on sales.

00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:34.000
On the past year round. Actually, farmers want some flowers on because the seeds from flowers.

00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:57.000
Yeah more, because seeds provide protein and Also, if you've got a an industry where you're coming, and they often need to be back in winter with signage away on the back side of your hey?

00:28:57.000 --> 00:29:09.000
Does contain combatational graph wild flowers on their seat, and it gives them more balance diet for the livestock over the winter.

00:29:09.000 --> 00:29:13.000
So again, you need all that dairy house the same.

00:29:13.000 --> 00:29:22.000
Is that? hey, signage of the winter, and supplemented by other things sometimes as well.

00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:26.000
I just thought it was quite interesting now. and I think it's very interesting.

00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:33.000
How the calorie intake is going up. and it looks like the predictions are that by 2,050.

00:29:33.000 --> 00:29:43.000
We're going to yeah which actually is quite a very full topic.

00:29:43.000 --> 00:29:52.000
So now we're looking at actual falling under gardening as well, and practices that can affect that the population.

00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:58.000
So we all know, and i'm sure we called on it we spring things.

00:29:58.000 --> 00:30:03.000
So we've seen we find we get spray out we've seen we do more.

00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:10.000
We get that spray out enough? Yeah, something follows have to do with time.

00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:19.000
So herbicide, pesticide use will affect in populations, and the actual set back her.

00:30:19.000 --> 00:30:33.000
Besides the things that kill me pesticides are the things that kill But i'm lots of herbicide do effect insect populations as well.

00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:43.000
Okay, they don't just kill the bomb so all herbicides on pesticides are known as a corrective term is as well.

00:30:43.000 --> 00:31:04.000
Chemicals. Okay, and they certainly do affect people, because when you think about it. If you are spraying your fields because you've got an intestation of some sort of so fly, which keeps all these then a

00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:13.000
pesticide that's kills a solid because we are insects just like software.

00:31:13.000 --> 00:31:22.000
So that's why they they one of the other things we're farming, particularly hobbies.

00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:30.000
Monoculture is just falling i'm lost of n resting sites.

00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:35.000
If just phone. So my picture here is just showing a farmer.

00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:40.000
This is a rice field actually in vice is pollinated by wind.

00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:47.000
But this is a monoculture. So can you see that, as far as you can see, the office is free in the background.

00:31:47.000 --> 00:32:01.000
But this is a very valid rice field and the man is spring, and he sprang something quite noxious because he's got a hat on a mask and some goggles i'm protected.

00:32:01.000 --> 00:32:07.000
Here. So that shows you how dangerous the chemical is the T screen.

00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:21.000
Monica chat is, and actually where 1 one okay, but we're gonna just start off with insect tests.

00:32:21.000 --> 00:32:29.000
Alright. So in fact, in fact, insects that damage crops. actually.

00:32:29.000 --> 00:32:40.000
Are about 80% of the world. say damage about 18% of the world's agricultural production.

00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:53.000
Okay, But actually all the effects that we know only about not 25% actually per damage props.

00:32:53.000 --> 00:33:05.000
So all the information that we know of in the world only about half of the saint actually damage crops, not 18% of the world.

00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:12.000
Agricultural production is damaged by her vigorous insect.

00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:18.000
So it's a big problem you know that that's a you're a farmer, and you lose 18% of your crop.

00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:32.000
That's a significant amount of money but also in areas where maybe this is much food that's a significant amount of food that is lost to the human population as well.

00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:39.000
I'm not is why phone is right and you can understand that I mean stand up.

00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:45.000
So the impact of chemicals actually is more than we fault originally.

00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:52.000
So when chemicals, the herbicides are actually passage.

00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:59.000
So how they affect B populations. In particular, they are tested individually.

00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:07.000
But there have been studies recently that have shown. Most farmers do not use one chemical on its own.

00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:20.000
They use 2 or 3 chemicals or a little cocktail, because they might spray for the the microscope field for insect and weeds at same time same time.

00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:22.000
Doesn't make you do it all long ago I recently.

00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:32.000
Well, I think last year I bought a spray for my roses, and it was a fungus side, and an insect decide all in one.

00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:36.000
I very rarely use it. and farmers will do the same.

00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:54.000
They will use more than one kind of at one time. Recent studies have shown that when you do this, when you mix and chemicals, the effect on these is, if actually much much more from each single chemical on its own.

00:34:54.000 --> 00:35:01.000
The more unloaded will will be will die cause often chemicals in the next.

00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:12.000
I'm not quite an interesting thing. and I think in the future that's going to be one of the areas. that farmers are going to be able to be looking out.

00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:17.000
Oh, okay, if they want to try and reduce the number of things at the beginning.

00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:23.000
Now this is an interesting I don't want you to be worried about all the different numbers and things.

00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:29.000
But i'm showing you this because I think it's a very interesting

00:35:29.000 --> 00:35:34.000
So that is just statistics. what's it showing is difference in

00:35:34.000 --> 00:35:43.000
The types of chemicals which are allowed to be used in different countries in the world.

00:35:43.000 --> 00:35:55.000
So we have got here the first time. The first column is the so the telling you which chemical town, or call the use.

00:35:55.000 --> 00:35:59.000
So if it's got a green it's a green one we use it.

00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:04.000
If it's a red color you don't or it's being phased out.

00:36:04.000 --> 00:36:09.000
Okay, if it's orange it is on its way to being phased out.

00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:24.000
But I think what's very, very interesting is when you look at the difference, particularly here between the Eu most of these chemicals down the side are not allowed, and are not used.

00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:30.000
But in the U.S.A. every single one of them can be.

00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:38.000
And then, when you look at Brazil this is a big export of of food products. In Brazil.

00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:43.000
A significant number are not allowed, or it be phased out.

00:36:43.000 --> 00:36:51.000
And China is interesting, too, although to be that the result the data in China is tricky.

00:36:51.000 --> 00:37:01.000
Wherever this is 0. It means that we actually don't have the data and the Chinese are quite careful as to what information they they share.

00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:13.000
So we Don't have full information about what's allowed or not allowed in China, and I think the difference between the U.S.A. and Europe is quite difficult.

00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:18.000
And this this is just a small number of cameras.

00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:22.000
I am aware that a couple of these things are actually antibiotics.

00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:29.000
Okay, these are not all exercise, and her the side and from the side there's one or 2 there that are

00:37:29.000 --> 00:37:47.000
Okay, but it was just to show you but in different parts of the world. There are different rules about which chemicals can't be used, and that's all I wanted to show you there

00:37:47.000 --> 00:38:06.000
Okay, so, Mona, culture, mono means one. So what it means is one crop grown in a very big area, and there are many parts of the world where there are acres and acres are exactly The same.

00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:16.000
Cost. you see a lot of it in America. because they've got Pennsylvania of land. So they have very, very large mono cultures.

00:38:16.000 --> 00:38:34.000
Cultures of one thing. the picture actually shows problems the veto element trees in blossom, which is why they look back into but they also, if you were out there in the area's group where on grounds.

00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:52.000
Not just in America, the world and the parts of the world, and they, if they were just feeling and the downside of this is, you need need to be to pollinate elements, because almonds are see of the tree.

00:38:52.000 --> 00:39:08.000
But when these feed only on the pollen are next to one single phantom, they end up being a bit deficient in certain nutrients, and because they're a bit deficient in certain nutrients they almost

00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:27.000
susceptible to disease and parasites and disease and Parsex will kill So when these are feeding from lots, lots of different sources of nectar on column, then they have it they have a more balanced

00:39:27.000 --> 00:39:30.000
diet. it's just like us you need a variety of things.

00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:35.000
You have a balance diet. Your your immune system is much stronger.

00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:46.000
So that's one of the problems in other cultures yeah, The other thing is is that when you have a a culture like .

00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:50.000
Fields of the same thing like this all in the rows is the bees.

00:39:50.000 --> 00:40:06.000
Don't have any any way mark and so when they go after the high and forage they'll call in the nectar and they go back to the High to find it very difficult to tell the other bees right sure where the the

00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:12.000
solid was because normally, the bees that provide only dance, which you may be aware of.

00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:20.000
They do a little widely done. So it basically says you could go this way and you turn left by the big tree, and then you turn right by the big find.

00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:33.000
A big rock you'll bend by some nice flowers but when it's monoculture around any big trees there aren't any different rocks, so it's very difficult for these to tell the other beat in the high where they call them the next it

00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:50.000
is, they can't navigate so well and then the other thing is is that in these sort of monocultures, what happens is these are actually transported to the field when the things are in former and because they're

00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:54.000
transported to the field. When things are in power they are.

00:40:54.000 --> 00:41:06.000
The transport is on Lois and they go from one place to the other following flowers. but transporting being on Laurie's they can't put them in high so they just pick the hive up and pop it on

00:41:06.000 --> 00:41:11.000
the lorry. but acting itself is very, very stressful for me.

00:41:11.000 --> 00:41:22.000
So, and because it's stressful it reduces the remaining system the more seasons

00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:28.000
Now for me. So, honey, is it a bad product to call crop pollination?

00:41:28.000 --> 00:41:47.000
Or is it actually an industry? Well, I would say it both excessive, because we do need honeybees, and there is a an industry in actually providing under these 4 crops, and that happens all over the world the honeybees

00:41:47.000 --> 00:41:51.000
are actually moved around the country to to actually call them.

00:41:51.000 --> 00:42:01.000
They call it, happens all over the world and that in itself is an industry, but it's a byproduct of agriculture.

00:42:01.000 --> 00:42:07.000
But then you have actual honey production, and how many production is important.

00:42:07.000 --> 00:42:12.000
It Project provides a lot of of income. So here we go a new production.

00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:18.000
So this this picture is just showing you very simple, funny story of funny.

00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:32.000
So basically the story of hunting age we start off where's the beans. They collect pollen and nectar nectar is a sugar resistance on the bees.

00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:46.000
Actually when they take it back to the the high they convert that they evacuate off a lot of the water from the nectar, and it becomes more concentrated and then turns into the need.

00:42:46.000 --> 00:42:56.000
Okay, So we're in the beehive it's turned into honey, and it's stored okay stored in in in the honeycomb.

00:42:56.000 --> 00:43:01.000
And then the bt becomes and take something.

00:43:01.000 --> 00:43:07.000
Come out, strips off the top of it, pops the honey. the honeycomb into a centrifuges.

00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:17.000
It's been dick and actually of a small scale. It is actually a handpack spinning it's like a spin.

00:43:17.000 --> 00:43:24.000
It's like a like a spin via but if you're looking at me very, very large honey production.

00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:37.000
Factory then. obviously it's done by machine the same thing just some, and because it spins out the honey just comes out and goes against 5, and it's collected, and then it's pure 8 football so

00:43:37.000 --> 00:43:53.000
if you bind on you from somewhere local from where you live and it's being and that's what will happen if you buy honey from the supermarket, it's usually to a certain temperature

00:43:53.000 --> 00:44:11.000
for short time to care off any microbial. but to be fair honey, it has such a high concentration of sugar, that that high concentration of sugar actually inhibits microbial growth, our mount

00:44:11.000 --> 00:44:19.000
has been used in the past and he's still used an anti-sectic.

00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:23.000
So if you were out in the middle of nowhere, cut yourself with you back.

00:44:23.000 --> 00:44:29.000
With that you saw some wild honey you could correct.

00:44:29.000 --> 00:44:40.000
You want, honey, put it on your cotton, and it was help it does have a nonprofit.

00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:48.000
Okay, I thought. My train is not. It is anti-croding.

00:44:48.000 --> 00:45:07.000
Okay, no worldwide honey is a major industry, and we we produce any 2 million tons of China is the largest largest producer in the world, on most of the money, that you buy in the same market.

00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:16.000
Especially if you go into the more budget. price 20 Most of that will come from China, and those budget price ties are mixed homes.

00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:37.000
So There's not a 100 various places. are extended turkey interested in the second time. and the Uk is about 13. so we do produce a legal amount in Uk honey.

00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:43.000
Call me a add in small scale, you know very, very small.

00:45:43.000 --> 00:45:48.000
You could have got couple of hides bottom of the garden, or in a space.

00:45:48.000 --> 00:45:57.000
What are they? we've got to honey bee society, and they have some lives in the grade yard and they they they could use a small amount.

00:45:57.000 --> 00:46:03.000
They've got 2 or 3 high to number so you can have those small scale produces.

00:46:03.000 --> 00:46:08.000
But then you have the and the very large scale of it as well. Okay.

00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:14.000
So there's quite a variety they call so honey beans.

00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:31.000
We need to be kept in an optimum condition they need to be healthy, and it's and in order to do this you need to keep you need to make sure that the hides are they need to make sure that these are healthy and they

00:46:31.000 --> 00:46:35.000
they. We are feeding on the variety of flowers.

00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:40.000
And you need to keep an eye on them and make sure that they are healthy.

00:46:40.000 --> 00:46:47.000
A good husband. Dream is very, very important, and you'll have all heard about this very old.

00:46:47.000 --> 00:46:52.000
Might this but got into Australia. i'm has been a huge problem in in the Uk.

00:46:52.000 --> 00:47:00.000
And all around the world, because 8,200 anything behind and it.

00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:11.000
Okay, but you kill very if you keep your bees. well, then, they are stronger and more able to fight off.

00:47:11.000 --> 00:47:25.000
And you can. You can stop the lights very, very early, and then a good fee keeper will then do the appropriate things to to get me.

00:47:25.000 --> 00:47:43.000
The months from their time. Okay, it's more of a management thing Australia was really trying now to not let it come in and not let it spread. But i'm sure you've all seen on the news. they've got quarantine

00:47:43.000 --> 00:47:48.000
destroying highs, and so on and I know that in the Uk when the first came here.

00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:54.000
But we don't need to stop It completely so income is generated obviously from the same body.

00:47:54.000 --> 00:48:09.000
But also from sale of these wax you know the polish or candles and that sort of thing, and also and people who are in effect falling honey.

00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:24.000
Bees, they're able to also either hire out with any use the pollination or to provide training keepers in the future. You need to go on a training course. if you want to keep these, you need to know how to do it

00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:35.000
properly. So the Uk actually is quite interesting. It produces about 14% of the honey that's confused in the domestic mark.

00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:44.000
But the European average is about 60%. So I was a lot of the honey we eat from abroad.

00:48:44.000 --> 00:48:49.000
That's happy to do the cost yeah the honey from abroad is cheaper.

00:48:49.000 --> 00:48:59.000
January, you do, however. X. full 20, so we do export.

00:48:59.000 --> 00:49:13.000
How, and, in fact, we actually the income generated from exporting country in 2021 was about 12 million pounds, which is quite a lot.

00:49:13.000 --> 00:49:16.000
I'm I think part of fact is that British honey is a premium product.

00:49:16.000 --> 00:49:34.000
When people bought from a rule of by which honey they know it is is a a product where don't use quite so many pesticides, and it is premium product in in much the way that our

00:49:34.000 --> 00:49:41.000
so you can charge more for it, and we do export.

00:49:41.000 --> 00:49:50.000
A significant amount of money, obviously in 2020, 2029, 2020 honey experts went down.

00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:54.000
But we all know why that was We're not going into that.

00:49:54.000 --> 00:50:10.000
But interestingly, and since Brexit went through our honey exports, voltage gone down as well. That used to do with us coming out of the single market So that has effectively excellent.

00:50:10.000 --> 00:50:19.000
Okay. So in conclusion, in the Britain we have about 270

00:50:19.000 --> 00:50:26.000
But species Of these about 260 of those are solitary.

00:50:26.000 --> 00:50:44.000
These so only about 20 species of all of these actually then, social beings, living columns, and those are only We can make changes to attract fees to our gardens.

00:50:44.000 --> 00:50:55.000
We can have water we can have, Thank you. flowers, and we can have Them They can look and crannies for them to make. next.

00:50:55.000 --> 00:51:02.000
Calming practices can decrease the population if we're using a lot of agriculture chemicals.

00:51:02.000 --> 00:51:13.000
If we're only growing one type of crop and also when you do that, you'll often lose habitat's gonna be to nest in as well.

00:51:13.000 --> 00:51:24.000
These polynomials of crops, and that is why they are so important, and that is worldwide, that every country in the world relies on the and of a pollinators.

00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:32.000
That because we found these because we domesticated these, we we can control.

00:51:32.000 --> 00:51:39.000
Honey is made by these, and enjoyed by most of us.

00:51:39.000 --> 00:51:42.000
Oh, that's just the end of my presentation today.

00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:53.000
I hope you found it very interesting and I hope that you have learned something new, and I've not given you far too much information.

00:51:53.000 --> 00:51:57.000
In a very short space of time. Okay, thank you very much I'm.

00:51:57.000 --> 00:52:05.000
Good to have this to the Okay, Thanks very much for that, Catherine. That was that was really quite interesting.

00:52:05.000 --> 00:52:12.000
Certainly eye opening for me, and as somebody that doesn't particularly like bees much in terms of them buzzing round me.

00:52:12.000 --> 00:52:17.000
It's a quite frightening for me to know there's 270 different species of them.

00:52:17.000 --> 00:52:23.000
However. right. Let's have a look at some questions because we do have a few here now.

00:52:23.000 --> 00:52:33.000
Let's start from the talk no actually this is a question what's question from Jan or mood of a comments.

00:52:33.000 --> 00:52:36.000
But she's saying, my b hotel is not attracting any bees.

00:52:36.000 --> 00:52:41.000
It's positioned on a fence but nothing is happening so she's wondering what she's doing wrong.

00:52:41.000 --> 00:52:51.000
What, what would be the the the sort of common mistakes that you might meet with something like that, or the common reasons why bees might not be attracted?

00:52:51.000 --> 00:52:57.000
Well, I also have a big hotel. and I don't have any reason to type them.

00:52:57.000 --> 00:53:07.000
I Sometimes it's predict the positioning of it if if it's positioned in the wrong place, you know it might be too windy.

00:53:07.000 --> 00:53:18.000
It might be at the wrong time of the day. you may just not have nice to meet you in your garden. you you just like leaving an annual where at the month so many meetings.

00:53:18.000 --> 00:53:23.000
But it's probably worth trying to position it in a slightly different place.

00:53:23.000 --> 00:53:30.000
Maybe somewhere more sheltered how's it maybe out of the wind.

00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:45.000
Maybe, so that it doesn't get rained on so much Sorry it's worth just trying 18 different places in your garden. but maybe just moving once in this, you know, in in the winter see if something come Well, maybe this

00:53:45.000 --> 00:53:55.000
time we go actually see? see? just maybe once then give it a whole year, and if it still doesn't attract any, then try somewhat different.

00:53:55.000 --> 00:53:58.000
Okay, Okay, So location seems to be quite an important thing.

00:53:58.000 --> 00:54:05.000
So I hope that helps you, Jen. And okay, this is from Barbara.

00:54:05.000 --> 00:54:13.000
Is it right? The flowers from garden sensors aren't grown organically, and so please don't like them.

00:54:13.000 --> 00:54:27.000
Well, I would say we've gotten sent to flowers, and they probably most of them won't be good from organically unless it said it on the on on the actual ticket.

00:54:27.000 --> 00:54:35.000
Then they're not going to being grown organically but to be fair once they've been in your garden, for you know, 2 or 3 weeks.

00:54:35.000 --> 00:54:48.000
Any chemicals that will have been used during their propagation and growing on those chemicals will have and would have reduced in the in strength, in the in the actual hours.

00:54:48.000 --> 00:54:56.000
So no garden sent to flowers should be absolutely fine and then, shouldn't affect your being populations at all right.

00:54:56.000 --> 00:55:06.000
What else do we have? Let's see no this is in connection with that really interesting graphic that you showed us about the different sort of crops?

00:55:06.000 --> 00:55:17.000
And sort of food stuffs, and the sort of calories and that kind of thing, so is asking what sort of food stuff are in the other category.

00:55:17.000 --> 00:55:31.000
Oh, I have no idea. Okay. ready there. Sorry to ask you a really awkward question.

00:55:31.000 --> 00:55:45.000
Well, it will certainly be fish. fish. showfish that that will be another, because that's not easier to zoom meet, and a a search, so it will be another.

00:55:45.000 --> 00:55:53.000
Do you know what I really don't know That's something that we can look at afterwards.

00:55:53.000 --> 00:55:58.000
Maybe I think so. I think so. Yeah, I can't think of anything, just off the top of my head.

00:55:58.000 --> 00:56:09.000
What it could be. but there will i'm sure I mean there will be other things I just yeah, and we've got Well, it's a comment here from Caroline.

00:56:09.000 --> 00:56:15.000
Actually that I thought was really interesting, and the use be harmful pesticides to protect sugar kin.

00:56:15.000 --> 00:56:20.000
And we have an obesity problem fairly obvious solution there.

00:56:20.000 --> 00:56:31.000
Yeah, cool. I think you're absolutely right. I mean you know we we, we all know this problem within within the whole world.

00:56:31.000 --> 00:56:38.000
Actually, and it it. It comes down when it comes down to it. You know it.

00:56:38.000 --> 00:56:41.000
It is to do how much you need the caloric value of the zoom.

00:56:41.000 --> 00:56:51.000
Do you eat So yes, you're absolutely right but you know as humans, we like sweet things.

00:56:51.000 --> 00:57:00.000
The demand things is very, very high and you can't say to it to a pharmaceutical.

00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:14.000
We've got to stop grown shoulder beat because of these 2 problem, because when it comes down to it that farmer is going to make living for himself or herself and their families, and it's up to our as individuals to choose whether

00:57:14.000 --> 00:57:19.000
we sugar or high calorie, food or not you know it's our choice.

00:57:19.000 --> 00:57:30.000
So you know it is a it's a it's a it's a it's a balance thing Okay, here's a question from Pat.

00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:34.000
She's asking well, She's talking about monica holy honey from New Zealand.

00:57:34.000 --> 00:57:39.000
Very expensive. and is it worth the money in terms of health benefits?

00:57:39.000 --> 00:57:43.000
Well interesting. They went to new company class, came in the market.

00:57:43.000 --> 00:57:54.000
We were all told it was absolutely fantastic and it's very, very good for things like well to to eat the health, and it's also, you know, to put on saw bits on your skin, and really really good.

00:57:54.000 --> 00:58:11.000
And it does certainly help with the healing of skin and it is anticipated, but it when it first came on the market, we were all told it was like super honey Well, that's recently, which say actually it's.

00:58:11.000 --> 00:58:20.000
Not so much different from normal pure honey that you might buy from a local producer.

00:58:20.000 --> 00:58:35.000
So i've i've seen some some sluggish recently, which seem to indicate that maybe it's not quite the super honey that we were told it was when it first came on the market on any Tv is extremely expensive so

00:58:35.000 --> 00:58:41.000
possibly, if you're using it thank you notice the difference that's right.

00:58:41.000 --> 00:58:49.000
But if you might, you might want to try using you know a natural honey from from no local

00:58:49.000 --> 00:58:55.000
The local producer. and see if there's any difference yourself.

00:58:55.000 --> 00:58:59.000
So if it's a yeah it was originally called a super honey.

00:58:59.000 --> 00:59:07.000
But but the studies are showing that maybe it's not quite so different from Hmm.

00:59:07.000 --> 00:59:11.000
And I have. and Helene asking, could you repeat you were talking?

00:59:11.000 --> 00:59:17.000
I think it was fairly early on in the lecture about blue flowers, and you just repeat what they wear.

00:59:17.000 --> 00:59:23.000
They were Lindsey Lindsey Yeah.

00:59:23.000 --> 00:59:29.000
Yeah, interesting, Well, that helps you. Okay, I am going to finish up.

00:59:29.000 --> 00:59:42.000
Let me just have a look right in fact we've got a couple of other questions, and then I think we'll we'll wrap up. Now, a question here from amal I don't know if you'll know the answer to

00:59:42.000 --> 00:59:46.000
this one actually does honey help with eczema and inflamed skin.

00:59:46.000 --> 00:59:58.000
So you know, kind of like, you know, skin meditation and that kind of thing right Well, excellent a that every single person, the maximum, the chances are something different.

00:59:58.000 --> 01:00:04.000
Will work. Okay, it's one of those conditions. that what works one person doesn't necessarily work for another.

01:00:04.000 --> 01:00:13.000
But some people do find that honey will help it's always worth trying.

01:00:13.000 --> 01:00:21.000
If it helps you that's good if you don't see any difference after a week, then it may be not really going to work for you.

01:00:21.000 --> 01:00:32.000
But eczema itself is so variable you know we all know that there are certain queens that work for one person, and they just don't touch another person's eczema, and the same with any

01:00:32.000 --> 01:00:46.000
irritant, sort of skin condition so it's so variable. it. it won't do any harm it's most definitely worth a try, and if it works for you that's great, but if it doesn't then, then, just

01:00:46.000 --> 01:00:52.000
continue. Okay, right. We'll finish up on this question this is a bit of a 1 million dollar question.

01:00:52.000 --> 01:01:04.000
Actually This is from elizabeth he's asking well, leaving the Eu and true our own farming standards improve the lots of our b populations.

01:01:04.000 --> 01:01:09.000
Well, it depends on what we do with our own standards.

01:01:09.000 --> 01:01:13.000
If we improve them and set the Eu standards off.

01:01:13.000 --> 01:01:16.000
Very strict anyway, and the British standards of this stand.

01:01:16.000 --> 01:01:25.000
Some of our standards are stricter than the one the Eu dictate.

01:01:25.000 --> 01:01:36.000
Anyway, it depends really on how the governments go if they start relaxing some of our our methods of farming, or what's allowed here.

01:01:36.000 --> 01:01:41.000
And obviously you can get worse. it's a typing things up.

01:01:41.000 --> 01:01:46.000
Then the populations may well and Yeah. So I think it.

01:01:46.000 --> 01:01:55.000
It will depend very, very much on what the policies that the Government puts forward, and the rules that they have.

01:01:55.000 --> 01:02:02.000
Oh, and of course some of that I mean I i'd like to say that we, as the public, should be able to influence that

01:02:02.000 --> 01:02:09.000
But how much influence we have on government, you know. it can be a little bit limited.

01:02:09.000 --> 01:02:23.000
Yeah, Okay, Well, thank you, very much, Catherine and I hope everybody enjoyed that.

00:00:06.000 --> 00:00:13.000
Okay, great, great, great to see you you all. I thank you very much for coming today to hear a lecture about a writer.

00:00:13.000 --> 00:00:22.000
You probably never heard of which I'm amazed the the so many of you want to hear about a writer. you probably haven't heard of will be interesting to hear at the end.

00:00:22.000 --> 00:00:28.000
If there is anyone who's heard of him and it's great.

00:00:28.000 --> 00:00:41.000
He's a his name's mark Rutherford he's a late nineteenth century writer, and he's been a been a part of my life for for many years now, and i'm going to be talking today,

00:00:41.000 --> 00:00:56.000
eventually about the relationship between his writing and depression I guess mental health, although in those days it wasn't really called mental health or depression, it was usually called hypochondria, or melancholia.

00:00:56.000 --> 00:01:06.000
For many people it didn't exist at all It was something that you just simply had to pull yourself together out of

00:01:06.000 --> 00:01:10.000
But for other food. It was something that played him all his life, and he there's reached a stage in his life.

00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:16.000
We started to write about his own depression, amongst many other things.

00:01:16.000 --> 00:01:21.000
I guess so. so i'll be introducing him again.

00:01:21.000 --> 00:01:26.000
The great thing about it is very easy to be on authority about Mark R.

00:01:26.000 --> 00:01:30.000
Because because really not many people have read him not many people have heard of him.

00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:34.000
So if you've like read more than one book you're already on authority.

00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:46.000
So, and that there's not that many books to read in fact. but so it's it's quite pleasant to have him, as it were, as you as a niche sphere of expertise, because one you know one instantly

00:01:46.000 --> 00:01:51.000
you're not in If you if I'd been If my research interested in Dickens or George Elliot.

00:01:51.000 --> 00:02:02.000
You know you're in competition with so many many great names, Mark Rutherford, you know there is a couple of people I know who have read him which is kind of nice, really.

00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:09.000
I came upon him. Who is he? First of all I came upon him.

00:02:09.000 --> 00:02:15.000
Bike complete accident. and and i've i'll i'll show you.

00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:29.000
It was just I was in a I was in a junk show in Brighton one day 20 years ago, and I always found this old wooden trunk, and there are loads of junk.

00:02:29.000 --> 00:02:37.000
There was some brass animals, some seaside postcards of people in caps and very heavy jackets.

00:02:37.000 --> 00:02:44.000
Walking along, walking along the seafront. Why did the Victorians always wear ties and jackets and hats on the beach on hot summer days?

00:02:44.000 --> 00:02:56.000
But they did, and you could tell by all photos. and then there was a very shabby old coat, and I pulled out the coat and

00:02:56.000 --> 00:03:07.000
A book fell out. this one i've got it in a kind of a plastic wrapper, because it's it's quite rare

00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:14.000
In fact, I now know there are only 200 copies of this printed, So there's probably only about 10 of these which actually exist anymore.

00:03:14.000 --> 00:03:19.000
So this is one of them. it's extremely rare but one of the rarest Victorian books.

00:03:19.000 --> 00:03:29.000
It's. this have been produced I Didn't know that then, and it was called the Autobiography of Mark Rutherford.

00:03:29.000 --> 00:03:33.000
So I pick this up and depressingly it's called the autopilot.

00:03:33.000 --> 00:03:44.000
I turn the title page. It says the Autobiography of Mark Rutherford, Dissenting Minister, edited by his friend and I felt well.

00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:49.000
You know there are few kind of autobiographies that Vickers and priests have made of their lives.

00:03:49.000 --> 00:03:59.000
Not the kind of thing that's really going to interest me Really, it already looks a bit boring, although there was something about this title page that that kind of got to me.

00:03:59.000 --> 00:04:08.000
The autobiography of Mark Brotherford dissenting Minister, edited by his friend Reuben Chat Cop.

00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:15.000
I've got a picture of the title page here

00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:21.000
And hopefully, you can see that so there's my book

00:04:21.000 --> 00:04:26.000
And there's a title page I guess what was interesting.

00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:32.000
First of all is the fact that i'd never heard of him so?

00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:39.000
Why was he publishing an autobiography? usually, you know, when you know my parents have got on their bookshelves, like, you know.

00:04:39.000 --> 00:04:45.000
Want to talk for you, David Jason, or you know or the autobiography of Beckham, or whatever they're people that you heard of.

00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:49.000
But why would someone who is Mark Rutherford?

00:04:49.000 --> 00:04:58.000
Sometimes people write autobiographies when they're not famous words with, for example, wrote his autobiography before anybody knew who.

00:04:58.000 --> 00:05:14.000
But he didn't want to publish it he wrote it for himself, and there's also that little inscription there on the title page, edited by his friend Ruben Chapcott underneath of course it says dissenting

00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:23.000
minister. What is it dissenting Minister and then it says, edited by his friend Ruben Chapcott, and I was that's intriguing.

00:05:23.000 --> 00:05:36.000
Why would a friend edit and autobiography so There's enough there for me at least, to to not fling the thing back into the trunk from whence I had plucked it?

00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:40.000
It was published. This is on the title page by Tribna and Co.

00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:52.000
Whoever they were in 1881 and there's that inscription A nice name, I mean an unusual name.

00:05:52.000 --> 00:06:02.000
When you think about it, we've been chapcot Reuben perhaps quite a Jewish name at that time, and today, Chapcott, it's a nice feel to it.

00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:15.000
There's a pilot at the start which I might come back to. but when I first picked up the book I didn't, I didn't look at the time I just wanted to find out kind of who this guy was there's

00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:22.000
a Contents Page Childhood Preparation. Waterlane. Ed.

00:06:22.000 --> 00:06:34.000
Would give a Martin never heard of him. Miss Arbor who she, Ellen and Mary Emancipation Progress in Emancipation and Oxford Street.

00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:44.000
So we're ready. there's a sense to someone who's he's not very free, and who's got to free himself from whatever it is.

00:06:44.000 --> 00:06:58.000
That's plaguing him and there's a sense of someone who's come from a provincial background Water Lane, but ends up in London, and then there's most intriguing of all the first

00:06:58.000 --> 00:07:13.000
page which goes like this. Now that i've completed my autobiography up to the present year, I sometimes doubt whether it's right to publish it.

00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:23.000
Of what use is it, many persons will say, to present to the world what is mainly a record of weaknesses and failures?

00:07:23.000 --> 00:07:37.000
If I had any Triumphs to tell if I could show how i'd risen superior to poverty and suffering, if, in short, I were a hero of any kind whatever, I might perhaps be justified in communicating my success to

00:07:37.000 --> 00:07:42.000
mankind, and stimulating them to do as I have done.

00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:47.000
The mine is the tale of a commonplace life perplexed by many problems.

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I've never solved disturbed by many difficulties i've never just amounted, and blotted by ignoble concessions, which were constant regret.

00:08:00.000 --> 00:08:12.000
I've decided, however, to let the manuscript remain I will not destroy it, although I will not take the responsibility of printing it.

00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:17.000
Somebody may think it's worth preserving and there are 2 reasons why they may think so.

00:08:17.000 --> 00:08:34.000
If they're on their others in the first place it has some little historical value, for I feel increasingly every day that the race to which I belonged is fast passing away, and the dissenting minister of the present day is

00:08:34.000 --> 00:08:41.000
a different being altogether from the dissenting minister of 40 years ago.

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In the next place, I have observed that the man, knowing that other people have been tried as we have been tried, is a consolation to us, and that we are relieved by insurance, that our sufferings are not special and

00:09:00.000 --> 00:09:10.000
peculiar, but common to us. with many others I love that introduction. it's very strange, of course, first of all.

00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:16.000
When you look at the opening sentence here it's a great Swift, one of my favorite opening sentences to any books.

00:09:16.000 --> 00:09:32.000
Now that i've completed my Autobiography up to the present year, I sometimes doubt whether it's right to publish it like, Why would you start a book like that for start off with you know obviously raise a question why

00:09:32.000 --> 00:09:36.000
Mr. Rutherford, are you not sure whether to publish this book?

00:09:36.000 --> 00:09:40.000
Okay. Well, obviously, I guess if it's north bog face will be really personal, and he's a bit embarrassed about it.

00:09:40.000 --> 00:09:47.000
I can understand that I mean I guess a lot of us don't write our autobiographies because it's just too embarrassed about ourselves.

00:09:47.000 --> 00:09:58.000
Or we think we're just far, too boring which are probably, very good reasons not to publish an autobiography, but so for other foot has these doubts, but also what's weird about this one is that the

00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:05.000
autobiography is published so like Why, does he tell us at the start. but he wasn't sure whether we should do because it's too late now.

00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:19.000
It's already out there, but for some reason he does begin by saying, Well, I know you know you've got my autobiography, but a part of me which is you kind of didn't you know what I mean but then I

00:10:19.000 --> 00:10:25.000
also like that word. Sometimes I sometimes doubt whether it's like to publish it so.

00:10:25.000 --> 00:10:31.000
In other words, sometimes we feels okay about publishing it and other times when he's not sure.

00:10:31.000 --> 00:10:40.000
So he introduced himself by telling us in other words He's always torn by this whole writing.

00:10:40.000 --> 00:10:45.000
Rick Morrow really and it's value and it's worth which I like

00:10:45.000 --> 00:10:51.000
This isn't going to be a success story this isn't gonna be someone's rise to fame and wealth and riches.

00:10:51.000 --> 00:10:59.000
So if you've not got a success story I think there must be other deeper reasons for wanted to write an autobiography.

00:10:59.000 --> 00:11:07.000
And of course, also at the start. it's says Now I have completed my October for bug feet up up to the present year hang on a minute.

00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:11.000
So is this quarter biography finished or not? or not?

00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:17.000
Because what does the present year mean? Does that mean he's finished it up to the point in which he's publishing the book?

00:11:17.000 --> 00:11:34.000
Or is he gonna write any more and if it's completed. It means that this sentence was written right at the very end of yours, Bog Fee, and then tagged on the beginning, which is interesting very intriguing, and

00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:48.000
sets up all kinds of questions about the person who's written this, and he's he's bittering mind, as it were, but, as he said, there were 2 reasons why he wanted to publish it number one, he says it has some little

00:11:48.000 --> 00:12:01.000
as he said, it has some little historic value Okay, If you want to find about dissenting ministers. This is a good place for perhaps to start because they're passing away and dissenting ministers are different these

00:12:01.000 --> 00:12:06.000
days than they were in those days, so there's a very Well, i'd say a very niche is historical interest.

00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:11.000
Any dissenting ministers curiously in my research to Rutford.

00:12:11.000 --> 00:12:15.000
I have found that there's there's a few people who are interested in dissenting ministers, and in the history of them.

00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:21.000
And there are lots of history books about dissenting ministers, and i'll tell you what i'm not gonna read any of them again.

00:12:21.000 --> 00:12:27.000
And I was boring pieces of work i've ever i've ever come across. and I think kind of rather for partly feels that, too.

00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:47.000
It's of his little historic value. but then there's these other second reason in the next place I have observed the the man, knowing that other people have been tried as we have been tried, is a consolation to us I really

00:12:47.000 --> 00:13:01.000
warm to this kind of relationship towards reading, writing, and in fact, I would do as far as say, what better reasons are there for writing a book than to hope that it might help someone else?

00:13:01.000 --> 00:13:09.000
And I guess the hope that in writing about your own troubles it might be help you solve them out.

00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:21.000
But this is the core for this book. really reading on it obviously soon becomes clear that this man did not at any time enjoy being a dissenting minister.

00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:24.000
In fact, when they get by the time you get to the end of the book, he jacked it in.

00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:33.000
Very soon. as a young man there was a huge occupational hazard in being a dissenting minister in the middle of the nineteenth century, and that was basically he lost.

00:13:33.000 --> 00:13:43.000
He lost his solid belief in God and if you've got that what once that's happened I guess he found it very hard to go up into the pulpit and and preach.

00:13:43.000 --> 00:13:53.000
But then that raises another question If you've been trained to be a minister, and you've lost that sort of core faith, and you feel a bit of a phony in the pulpit.

00:13:53.000 --> 00:14:00.000
Well, then, what do you do?

00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:06.000
And he, his faith changed in in very gradually, and he found that he was.

00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:13.000
He felt a bit of a fraud in the in the pulpit, so that raises a whole problem in his life.

00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:18.000
What do I do now? In fact, that's also a problem with the title page of the book?

00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:26.000
Because it says the the title page the old bug might of you the odds bug, if you have not, rather than dissenting minister.

00:14:26.000 --> 00:14:30.000
But actually it should be X. X. Dissenting V.

00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:40.000
Minister. So there were, I love also. you know, this lovely sentence, the worst in the worst of maladies.

00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:47.000
Worse to me at least, those which are hypochondriacal, related to depression.

00:14:47.000 --> 00:14:50.000
The healing effect which is produced by the visit of a friend.

00:14:50.000 --> 00:15:02.000
You can simply say, I have been cured all that is most marked, and this becomes very important in in Rutherford's work.

00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:14.000
This need to try to work out how he can dodge his depression, how he can heal it, how he can, how he can talk about it in an open way.

00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:23.000
How to get through life when it's really really difficult and you've you're stuck in a career that you really don't want to do.

00:15:23.000 --> 00:15:29.000
There were a number of core sort of problems that he encounters in the book.

00:15:29.000 --> 00:15:34.000
And I just try to list a few, I mean. Where do I fit in in life? Who am I?

00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:39.000
Does God exist? If not, what should I do with myself? Do I matter?

00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:46.000
What can I do about loneliness? How do I know what I really want in life?

00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:53.000
Does anybody love me? Can I love anyone? Can I find a job?

00:15:53.000 --> 00:15:58.000
Which does not make me feel so depressed and useless.

00:15:58.000 --> 00:16:03.000
Okay, I mean, I guess we might be used to hearing these questions.

00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:08.000
Now in an age where well-being and mental health they're almost words.

00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:12.000
I think that sometimes need more to the the part of management.

00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:20.000
Speak as as as you know, that there's so much common currency on this has been so much about mental health and well-being, I mean in a really positive way.

00:16:20.000 --> 00:16:27.000
I think we think of nineteenth century men as quite robust, determined, positive, successful, striving people.

00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:31.000
I think a Brunel standing before that fantastic photograph of those change.

00:16:31.000 --> 00:16:46.000
You know men who change the world so it's quite courageous in many ways to find that in the heart of the nineteenth century a book came out by someone who really didn't know what to do with himself and who who suffered from

00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:54.000
depression and a feeling of failure. so they're all

00:16:54.000 --> 00:17:04.000
So I was building pre first of all he's very honest about himself. and this is a very honest story.

00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:14.000
What'sography at the same time. it can be very he will often skirt around problems, especially to do with love that he finds quite difficult to write about.

00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:19.000
I imagine it's a kind of book that was written quite late at night.

00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:22.000
I imagine, in Latin, is studied by a lamp it's dark.

00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:31.000
The rest of the family will sleep upstairs and he'd obviously reached a kind of a crisis in his life, and wrote this book.

00:17:31.000 --> 00:17:38.000
And of course, once you do start reading him it's it's very you become quite hooked because his voice is very direct.

00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:47.000
There's nothing to mediate. there's no there's no mediation between him and and our C. spay honest about the things that went wrong in his life.

00:17:47.000 --> 00:17:59.000
Oh, my God, it's a relief isn't it a relief to read a book with we're we're where life keeps going wrong which which invariably it often does but it those are the things that often

00:17:59.000 --> 00:18:04.000
don't end up in nineteenth century autobiographies.

00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:16.000
Okay, So there's several aspects to the way that he writes about depression

00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:29.000
He will often, as he recounts his life as a dissenting minister, he will tell stories of moment when he had moments when he had a nervous breakdown, and there were certain triggers to this usually

00:18:29.000 --> 00:18:45.000
sparked off by failures at work. having felt that he could no longer, He could no longer, with any integrity, carry on as a chapel preacher, and having realized to be honest with you that he wasn't that good good is

00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:56.000
it, he he thought. What else can I do and and I think perhaps a lot of people who don't know what they're going to do and if they're intellectual and they've had some degree of training, and they

00:18:56.000 --> 00:19:00.000
like reading. Well, you know, you become a school teacher and that's what he did.

00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:06.000
Fortunately he only lasted a day because he had a quite a bad nervous breakdown.

00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:17.000
After only one day as a school teacher. but there this awful trigger this moment of huge loneliness that he describes.

00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:25.000
I'll read you a little passage from his school teacher experiences is quite typical of him.

00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:34.000
Where are we? here? We go. I think nope I need to go back to my slide, because I've got some page numbers written there.

00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:43.000
Page 1, 1, 2, that's good

00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:51.000
He's a very eloquent writer on the subject of failure and loneliness.

00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:56.000
So he got a job as a school teacher he's he's already had a career crash.

00:19:56.000 --> 00:20:04.000
He's young he doesn't know where to fit in He's got himself in a little private school in Stoke Newton.

00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:22.000
It's windy it's dark he's been given He's been shown to a really shoddy little single bedset, and suddenly opening the window, looking out across London wave of depression hits him

00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:29.000
We passed through the school room into a kind of court, where there was a ladder standing against a trap door.

00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:39.000
He told me that my bedroom was up there and what I and that when I got up I could leave the ladder down or pull it up after me just as I pleased.

00:20:39.000 --> 00:20:48.000
I ascended, and found a little chamber, Julie furnished with a chest of drawers, bed, and washand stand.

00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:55.000
It was tolerably clean and decent. But who shall describe what I felt?

00:20:55.000 --> 00:21:08.000
I went to the window and looked out they were scattered lights here in that mocking roads, but if they cross one another and now and then stopped.

00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:13.000
We're building. It ceased. The effect they produced was that of bewilderment.

00:21:13.000 --> 00:21:27.000
No clut to it. Further off was the great light of London, like some unnatural dawn, or the illumination from a fire which could not itself be seen.

00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:32.000
I was overcome with the most dreadful sense of loneliness.

00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:41.000
I suppose it's the very essence of passion using the word in its literal sense, but no account can be given of it by the reason.

00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:54.000
Reflecting on what I suffered then I cannot find any solid ground for it. and yet there are not half a dozen days of my life which remain with me like that one.

00:21:54.000 --> 00:22:00.000
I was beside myself with a kind of terror which I cannot further explain.

00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:05.000
It's possible for another person to understand grief for the death of a friend.

00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:10.000
Bodily suffering, or any emotion which had a distinct cause.

00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:15.000
But how should he understand the worst of all calamities?

00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:25.000
The nameless dread. the influx of all vitality the ghostly, haunting horror which is so nearly akin to madness.

00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:36.000
It's many years ago since that evening, but while I write I am at that window still, and the yellow flare of the city is still in my eyes.

00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:48.000
I remember the thought of all the happy homes which lay around me, in which dwelt men who had found a position and occupation, and, above all things, affection.

00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:53.000
I know the causelessness of a good deal of all those panic fears and all that suffering.

00:22:53.000 --> 00:23:03.000
But I tremble to think how thin is the floor. on which we stand, which separates us from the bottomless abyss.

00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:08.000
I guess we've all had moments like that where where we where we think.

00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:12.000
Oh, my God, is this It What do I do now? it's just awful.

00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:18.000
Where's my family? Why, am I what am I doing here, and and Rutherford writes about those very, very well.

00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:28.000
I think perhaps a lesser writer. would have skirted I wouldn't have even bother to write about the whole school room incident, and would have said I I had a job as a school teacher, but it didn't last very

00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:45.000
long, but no, the moment still disturbs, Rutherford while he writes about it, and so he feels compelled to describe it, and I guess to try to understand it, even though that's very hard for him to work out how that

00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:56.000
became such a trigger for his depression. So there are these trigger moments in his in his books, these moments where he falls into the abyss, as it were.

00:23:56.000 --> 00:24:10.000
School teacher is one of them. there's something else I like about his work is that he's often told in 2 directions as a writer.

00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:22.000
He wants to write about his his problems and at the same time there's a big part of him the kind of wants to skirt over it, and I think that's very human, too.

00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:26.000
I mean, as I, as I mentioned in the first opening line.

00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:38.000
Now that i've completed my autobiography I sometimes doubt whether it is right to publish it right right to publish it, as if kind of what does the world want with a story of depression?

00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:51.000
What good is that gonna do? And he he feels that pull the the need to get it down, and the the counter need to be quiet, to not not say anything at all.

00:24:51.000 --> 00:25:01.000
There are moments in the book when he has dreadful times and he does meet people, and he cannot help but unburden himself and tell what he's feeling.

00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:11.000
So there's sentences like how it came about I do not know, but my whole story rushed to my lips, and I told her all of it with quivering voice.

00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:17.000
Then there's there's another there's a other that counter voice.

00:25:17.000 --> 00:25:24.000
I doubt i'm dude with you he'll talk about the scene.

00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:31.000
In fact, the the moment of the the schoolroom scene he finishes this chapter, and he says, some i'm constrained.

00:25:31.000 --> 00:25:41.000
Now, however, to admit that my trouble was but a bubble blown of air, and I dealt whether I've done any good but by dwelling upon it I doubt whether I really should have written it in my

00:25:41.000 --> 00:25:56.000
autobiography and I think that's very human too, isn't it that the whole worry about talking about our troubles, and knowing when to talk about them when to write them about them and we're not to and that

00:25:56.000 --> 00:26:00.000
tension is very much a part of Rutherford writing.

00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:19.000
He is at heart a very shy rather reserved gentleman but the book itself is like a pressure valve, and it cannot help but tell his story despite lines like you know, i'm constrained Now, however, to admit my trouble.

00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:24.000
Was but a bubble of blown air and I doubt whether I've done any good by dwelling upon it.

00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:29.000
But actually I think he has done a bit of good by dwelling upon it.

00:26:29.000 --> 00:26:35.000
He's made it a little bit easier for himself to understand that moment.

00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:45.000
I hope another important aspect, I guess in his writing is is, and another important way.

00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:53.000
He has no complete peers for depression in his book, man who is struggling with it.

00:26:53.000 --> 00:27:04.000
There is no single total cure for it but he's a man who's struggling with it, and but one of the things that's really important that it is a kind of a saving grace for other food is that he has

00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:10.000
friends, and these people pop up in the book at certain moments, and this is a very important theme of his writing.

00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:18.000
The need for a special friend, the hope that there is somebody out there who might understand us.

00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:26.000
Then, of course, You've got the extra trouble if do you tell how much can you share with that friend of your of your own problems?

00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:31.000
Of your depression the fear that you're going perhaps a little bit mad.

00:27:31.000 --> 00:27:47.000
But this is very important. The need to cultivate friends and the this very special role that friends can play with people who do suffer from from huge mental health problems, and there's one moment in the book in fact, where Rutherford is

00:27:47.000 --> 00:27:52.000
in worse things happen to him. As a story goes, he tumbles down into a dreadful abyss.

00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:55.000
He ends up as a he gets a job in a publishing house.

00:27:55.000 --> 00:28:01.000
He makes a mistake at work. it it triggers another crisis.

00:28:01.000 --> 00:28:05.000
He has no breakdown, he says, until I hardly.

00:28:05.000 --> 00:28:19.000
He decides to leave another job. His third job he leaves in this book, and he says, until i'd actually left, I hardly knew I was going, but at last I made up my mind I would go to Reuben Chapcott He advised me to

00:28:19.000 --> 00:28:26.000
take a bed in the house where he was staying and to consider what could be done, whether it has a friend called.

00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:40.000
We've been Chapcot and if you notice now that was the name that appeared on the title page of the book edited by his friend Lubin Chapcot, and at a terrible moment in the book Rutherford goes

00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:48.000
to Chapcott and I think that's really important that he's. He realizes that he cannot cope any more on his own, goes to his friends.

00:28:48.000 --> 00:29:00.000
Someone he knows will be be able to put him up for a few nights, and that, let those sentences are the only mentions we get on Ruben Chapcott in the book. don't know who he does who he is what he does Oh, actually we do know

00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:03.000
that he was a student friend of brotherhoods. We know that.

00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:06.000
So they were old friends. We just no description of him.

00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:14.000
All we know is someone who took Rutherford in the moment of crisis, and we also know but he's edited the book.

00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:21.000
This autobiography. Why would someone edit, I know, spoke Fee. well.

00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:32.000
The obvious reason that I could think of is if that person who wrote it is dead, and that's a kind of shadow that hovers while you read this book.

00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:47.000
This is a book that's written by someone who was not alive. when it was published that this is a manuscript that was left for the friend Rubin Chapcott to subsequently get into shape and give to a publishing

00:29:47.000 --> 00:29:53.000
house, and I think the more you read the book, the more you that that that sort of question hovers.

00:29:53.000 --> 00:30:00.000
What happened to Rutherford? Why, and how did it eventually get published?

00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:10.000
The book itself is an active friendship. The fact that Shapco must have found the manuscript, and subsequently published it for his friend.

00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:19.000
And you notice, I love that on the title page not edited by Google Chat, called edited by his friend.

00:30:19.000 --> 00:30:28.000
But that's really important isn't it that the I love the idea that a book has come about as an act of friendship.

00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:33.000
I guess Another important aspect, 1 one where he does sort of help and get get around.

00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:48.000
Depression in all moments is by allow finding moments for reflection and little moments where he can dip out at the dreadful story of dashing between jobs and and making mistakes, and falling in and out of love but actually finding

00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:54.000
moments where he can sit and try to sit out the deployment.

00:30:54.000 --> 00:31:04.000
It seems that it, that there is it's a it's a real illness, that you suffers from, and I think that was something that was not really fully recognized in the nineteenth century depression as an actual mental illness

00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:09.000
something that can come and go in sometimes some a bit of advice.

00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:22.000
If he gives, which he writes about in the book, going back to hypochondria and it's countless forms of agony, let it be born in mind. But the first thing to be aimed at is patience not to

00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:33.000
get excited with fears not to dread the evil which most probably will never arrive but to sit down quietly and wait.

00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:44.000
That's time wears on 2 muturation will be relief, for it familiarizes with what at first was strange and unsupportable.

00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:55.000
It shows the groundlessness of fears. and It enables us to say with each new peroxym that we've surrounded one like it before, and probably worse.

00:31:55.000 --> 00:32:13.000
This is something often you will often talk about in his book. but perhaps one of the most startling things that happens in terms of the things that do give you relief from depression is actually the what I call the unforseen kindness of

00:32:13.000 --> 00:32:21.000
strangers, people who never. And this happens, there are more rather for books, actually more rather for the books.

00:32:21.000 --> 00:32:35.000
With this experience off to his death, i'll tell you about that later on. but throughout his books strangers pop up people that you meet by the side of the road, or sitting down in the library.

00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:46.000
The people who know there's something wrong when you help him that's one of the most heartening aspects of the reading of reading weather food is that there's always the kind of hope that a belief in the kindness of

00:32:46.000 --> 00:33:00.000
strangers. He wrote a novel about somebody else that also appeared after his death, and the novel is called Clara Hopkood.

00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:05.000
I'll read you a bit where will they this is rather for the behind me here.

00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:12.000
Let me got to make it my God page number i've put it somewhere.

00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:19.000
This Clara Hopk. good so and again very unusual for a nineteenth century novel.

00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:23.000
There's a young woman, Madge, who becomes pregnant out of marriage.

00:33:23.000 --> 00:33:28.000
In. in. In fact, this book was nearly banned when it was first published.

00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:39.000
For that reason, and people advised you know obviously advised him not to write getting a book that nearly didn't get written interesting in it.

00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:44.000
The books that nearly don't get written they're the ones we most most most need to read.

00:33:44.000 --> 00:33:53.000
Much is becomes pregnant a fling outside of marriage.

00:33:53.000 --> 00:34:02.000
She runs away from how she's in a really really dreadful state.

00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:08.000
In fact, she finds herself sitting alone in the porch of a church.

00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:11.000
In fact, I found this is probably based on a real place.

00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:26.000
This porch in leatherhead in sorry i've sat in that porch on a rainy day, Much sits there, and suddenly an old woman comes along on a way to market.

00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:40.000
I believe i'll read it to you one auto morning she found herself at Leatherhead, the longest trip she'd undertaken, for there was scarcely any railways.

00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:51.000
Then she wondered about. So she discovered a footpath which took it to a mill pond which spread itself out into a little lake.

00:34:51.000 --> 00:34:55.000
It was fed by springs which burst up through the ground.

00:34:55.000 --> 00:35:02.000
She watched at one particular point, and saw the water boil up with such force that it cleared a space of a dozen yards in diameter.

00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:18.000
From every weed, and form the transparent pool just tinted with the pale as you, which is peculiar to the living fountains which break out the bottom of the chalk in about 3 quarters of an hour she

00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:29.000
found herself near a church larger than an ordinary village church. As she was tired, and the gate of the church porch was open, she entered and sat down.

00:35:29.000 --> 00:35:40.000
The sun streamed in upon her, and some sheep which had strayed into the churchyard from the adjoining open field came almost close to her unalarmed, and looked in.

00:35:40.000 --> 00:36:03.000
Her face. The quiet was complete. The air was so still that a yellow leaf, dropping here and there, just beginning to turn, fell quiveringly in a straight path to to the earth, sick at heart, and despairing she could not help being

00:36:03.000 --> 00:36:05.000
touched, and she thought to herself, How strange the world is!

00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:23.000
So transcendent both in glory and horror, a world capable of such scenes as those before her, a world in which, suffering as hers could be a world infinite ways She broke down on, wept.

00:36:23.000 --> 00:36:29.000
But there was something new in a sorrow, and it seems as if a certain pity overshadowed her.

00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:37.000
He barely recovered herself when she saw the woman, apparently about 50, coming towards her with a wicker basket on her arm.

00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:44.000
She sat down beside Madge, put up basket on the ground, and wipe her face with her apron.

00:36:44.000 --> 00:36:48.000
Morning, Miss , rather rot walk in and it i've come all way from Dorking.

00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:52.000
I'm going to great o coast there's a longest step there and back again.

00:36:52.000 --> 00:37:05.000
Not that this is the nearest way, but I don't like climbing them else. and then, when I get to leather Ed, I shall have a lift in a cart much felt bound to say something as the sun burnt face looked

00:37:05.000 --> 00:37:11.000
kind and motherly. I suppose you live in great focus. Yeah, I do. My husband.

00:37:11.000 --> 00:37:20.000
God bless him! He was a kind of foreman at the Towers, and when he died I was left alone, and didn't know what to be at, as both my daughters route and one married.

00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:28.000
So I took the general shop a great o coast, as Longwood used to add, but it don't pay, for I ain't used to it.

00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:35.000
The house is too big for me and there ain't nobody proper to mind it when I goes to docking for anything.

00:37:35.000 --> 00:37:40.000
Are you gonna leave. Well, I don't know yet. misses but I think I should live with my daughter in London.

00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:42.000
She's married a cabinet maker in great orange Street.

00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:48.000
They let lodgings, too. Maybe you know that part no I don't. You don't live in London.

00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:55.000
Then. Yeah, I do. I came from London this morning. The Lord have mercy on this, did you?

00:37:55.000 --> 00:38:00.000
Though I suppose that you are visiting here. I know most of the folks hereabouts.

00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:10.000
No, I'm going back this afternoon. how integrate interrogator was puzzled, and a curiosity stimulated.

00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:22.000
Presently she looked in magic's face my poor dear you'll excuse me. I don't mean to be forward, but I see you've been crying.

00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:32.000
There's somebody buried here. No, that was all she could say the walk from Leatherhead, and the excitement had been too much for her.

00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:37.000
She fainted. Mrs. Kaffin, for that was her name, was used to fainting fits.

00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:44.000
She was often a bit faint to herself, and she instantly loosened magic gown.

00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:49.000
What's from smelling salts and all through a little bottle of brandy and water.

00:38:49.000 --> 00:38:56.000
Something suddenly struck a She took up much his hand there's no waying ring on it.

00:38:56.000 --> 00:39:01.000
Look you now, my dear, you want no ways fit to go back to London today.

00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:04.000
If you was my child, you wouldn't do it for all the gold in the Indies.

00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:15.000
No, no, you shot now. I should have a week asleep this night, if I let you go, and if anything would have happened to you would be me as I've had to answer for it.

00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:21.000
And so one it's a license counter and of course, this woman, Mrs.

00:39:21.000 --> 00:39:26.000
Cafin becomes really important and helps match out. gives us someone to stay.

00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:31.000
Looks after. Well, the baby is born becomes a kind of groundmother to the baby.

00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:40.000
It's extraordinary and the kindness of of someone match just met by chance in the doorway of a of a church.

00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:44.000
And there are these moments in rather foods where somebody just does.

00:39:44.000 --> 00:39:52.000
Just I like that moment where Mrs. Katherine almost is is very careful, very sensitive, in talking to Matt.

00:39:52.000 --> 00:40:05.000
If you don't mind my noticing I I notice you've been crying Rutherford always thought it's really important that people take that first to inquire if they see someone who's in distress it's

00:40:05.000 --> 00:40:12.000
really really important, and that's something there are meetings in his in his books.

00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:34.000
Okay, the big reveal So the ot box fee was a very moving book, and one of the most moving sort of books I I read, and I guess that's another important strain to It is that you realize that writing about his

00:40:34.000 --> 00:40:48.000
troubles is itself been a huge relief for him and it's very much a book about writing because you notice that sometimes he doesn't want to write about his troubles, but that's one huge thing that the the the

00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:58.000
book, I think, Press. The most important aspect is the fact that writing this book has, it never see, been some huge relief to Rutherford.

00:40:58.000 --> 00:41:02.000
So I finished the autobiography. It was really moving.

00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:07.000
Never read any nineteenth century. not a autobiography like it before.

00:41:07.000 --> 00:41:20.000
And it's really the following week I was in a second-hand book shop in Tumbridge Wells, such as the excitement of my life, and I found this book on the shelf again.

00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:24.000
I think it was the title friends that caught my eye.

00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:32.000
Let us to 3 friends. This is absolutely true let us to 3 friends, and there's a faded name on the spine.

00:41:32.000 --> 00:41:40.000
I took it down, opened it, and this is what I saw.

00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:45.000
Let us to 3 friends by William Hale, White Brackets.

00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:57.000
Mark Brotherford, that's weird I thought Motherford was dead and here he is, supposedly as an old man.

00:41:57.000 --> 00:42:11.000
He looked a very interesting old man, slightly Reserves slightly the kind of expression, I would imagine Mark Rutherford might have had looks like a man who doesn't want to be photographed.

00:42:11.000 --> 00:42:19.000
But it's clear that what i'd encountered in the autobiography was a kind of hoax.

00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:27.000
It was not strictly an autography. it was an autobiographical novel, Rubin Chapcott.

00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:38.000
Was. Well, it was a kind of an invention that this book where it's a nord bike with a novel. That's that, Willie.

00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:45.000
A man called William Hell. Wright wrote, but then he wrote it in total secrecy.

00:42:45.000 --> 00:43:00.000
He invented a new name, Mark Rutherford. He invented an editor, so that to give some read, some to a Mecca mechanism by which this book could be published, and then the then this book appeared on the odds Bog if you

00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:05.000
have rather good, and people many people just had no idea who whether it was, and that actually we have hell.

00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:21.000
White was a a civil servant, but of course a civil servant did suffer all his life from the depression, and he wrote about it, and he could only write about it in secrecy by using a different name.

00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:29.000
Now that i've completed my autobiography up to the present year, I sometimes doubt whether it's right to publish it.

00:43:29.000 --> 00:43:39.000
He he looks when looking at his photograph. he really very much Looks like the man who who who almost doesn't want to be photographed or published.

00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:48.000
But is a kindly face. this is what he looked like about the time when the odds bog feet of Mark Wolf was written.

00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:59.000
He was born in Bedford in 1831 Ridge, Kent, in 1913.

00:43:59.000 --> 00:44:10.000
In fact, there's his grave which I visited many times he what's interesting, of course, about him, and the Mark Rutherford story Is that so?

00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:21.000
The Autobiography appeared in 1881 in this addition, only 200 of them, because the publisher thought he was gonna want to read that only 200 them. appeared.

00:44:21.000 --> 00:44:29.000
But then, the following year a sequel appeared. mark Rutherford's deliverance, and then a novel appeared.

00:44:29.000 --> 00:44:36.000
The Revolution in tanner's Lane also by Mark Rutherford, all of them edited by Ruben Chapcott.

00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:40.000
So he contrived, as it were, his own posthumous rebirth.

00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:46.000
As a writer, he made it seem as if he was with the books by a dead person already in secret.

00:44:46.000 --> 00:44:49.000
And the novel I read out for you just then by imagine Mrs.

00:44:49.000 --> 00:45:02.000
Caffeine was called clara hopk which was his last novel, and they're great and they're really moving, and they're very unusual, very experimental.

00:45:02.000 --> 00:45:09.000
And no one had ever been no One's really heard of him. So it you have read like Dickens and George Eliot and Mrs.

00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:19.000
Gaskell, and you want to find really really great, really emotional and moving, and actually really a really good writer.

00:45:19.000 --> 00:45:28.000
He's a good one to embark upon I know enough about Mark Rutherford to ramble on for at least another day.

00:45:28.000 --> 00:45:31.000
But I I've got to leave it there and I kind of want more than anything else.

00:45:31.000 --> 00:45:39.000
I I always think Alan de botan once said that criticism should be incitement to reading, and not a complete covering of a book.

00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:42.000
So i'm not going to pretend to cover all of my Rutherford.

00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:47.000
There's a lot more too much actually than a writing which is written about mental health.

00:45:47.000 --> 00:45:59.000
But if you're interested the autobiography is a good place to start, but don't tell anyone that it's a hoax, because it's much more interesting if you have to read it as if he's a

00:45:59.000 --> 00:46:05.000
real person which he was. There we go. Thank you. Thanks very much, Mark.

00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:18.000
Well, that was rather intriguing wasn't it everybody and yeah, your passion for brother Rutherford's work i'm standing through Mark I'll see but yet his books do feel very relevant today do

00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:21.000
don't, they you know, get a , the last couple of years.

00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:33.000
We all had ? particularly No. And Harvey asked a question, which is not really a question anymore.

00:46:33.000 --> 00:46:39.000
Because you answered it with a big deal. but in Harvey you hit the nail on the head.

00:46:39.000 --> 00:46:44.000
I think what Ian said was is the clear evidence that it is truly autobiographical.

00:46:44.000 --> 00:46:51.000
Is that any possibility that it's a form of fictionalized autobiography?

00:46:51.000 --> 00:46:52.000
Yeah, Obviously, yes, it's a fictionalized autobiography.

00:46:52.000 --> 00:47:00.000
But actually many of the elements are because i've researched William held White's life that it's based on truth.

00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:09.000
One of the characters in the Autobiography is a young woman actually called Teresa, and she's someone who does help Rutherford in a particularly difficult crisis.

00:47:09.000 --> 00:47:21.000
And actually she's in real life. George eliot so George Eliot, as a character, as a person is someone who is a character in rather for to autography.

00:47:21.000 --> 00:47:23.000
Elliot meant a heck of a lot to William.

00:47:23.000 --> 00:47:25.000
Hell white, and I think he kind of fell in love with it as a young man.

00:47:25.000 --> 00:47:30.000
It didn't come to anything but she's a character in the autobiography.

00:47:30.000 --> 00:47:40.000
So actually it's more truth than than fiction he's he's fudged a few bits and changed a few bits, but i'm it's it's it's you know it's it's

00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:52.000
it's so very clearly based upon his own life yeah and we, you know, in first part of the late show we just have a little bit speculation going on in the the chat about the intrigue of that first page in

00:47:52.000 --> 00:47:57.000
the book and i'll just read a couple of them out actually

00:47:57.000 --> 00:48:02.000
This from Carl. She said. maybe he was clever and knew that people would be intrigued.

00:48:02.000 --> 00:48:08.000
Published, the publishers would need to be drawn, and thus they'd see the others would want to know more.

00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:14.000
Yeah, I think the best way to start a book is to tell your readers that you're really not sure whether you want them to read it.

00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:18.000
And any actually it's a device he's a very clever writer.

00:48:18.000 --> 00:48:28.000
It's a fictional device so what would more I mean if if I started by this lecture by saying, Do you know what I really don't think I should talk about this you you really wouldn't want me to stop I

00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:36.000
already imagine. What is it? he doesn't want to talk about that So yeah, it's a very clever way but I think it's also true.

00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:40.000
I think you honestly wrote it, not not knowing if you should publish it.

00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:44.000
But most writers would have edited that thought out of the book. What's great about him?

00:48:44.000 --> 00:48:49.000
Is he kept it in he His doubts about writing a part of the story.

00:48:49.000 --> 00:48:55.000
And another little spec that speculation from an the book was edited by friends.

00:48:55.000 --> 00:49:01.000
I wonder if he was gay, which would have been a problem for him at that time?

00:49:01.000 --> 00:49:14.000
Yeah, I don't I don't I don't think Well, if it was gay I do think whether it was gay, cause you know he he but you know I but the same kind of spectaculation about say dh lawrence

00:49:14.000 --> 00:49:28.000
isn't there. there's not really any any humor autism in the in the book rated is not really it's not There's no This there's no sense of desire or sensuality within any of the male relationships They

00:49:28.000 --> 00:49:34.000
are friends. as far you know they they really are. and he you know he he was married twice.

00:49:34.000 --> 00:49:47.000
He had a, but his marriage was his real life. Marriage was very unhappy because his wife had multiple stroosis, and by the when she was 30 she was completely paralyzed.

00:49:47.000 --> 00:49:51.000
And so that was a very, very, and he was actually yet to look after her.

00:49:51.000 --> 00:49:57.000
There was a very, very tough marriage, really, and when she died he married again. Okay, interesting.

00:49:57.000 --> 00:50:10.000
And we've got another question here. from ron Did William Hale White publish anything under his own name?

00:50:10.000 --> 00:50:18.000
Yes, he did. We saw one. Yes, he did Well, Well, no, I mean the he didn't write any any of his fiction, or more personal stuff under his own name.

00:50:18.000 --> 00:50:33.000
But what he did do he was at the time the world's leading expert on the philosopher Spinoza, and his very first book, His very first book actually was not the autobiography He published It under his own name It

00:50:33.000 --> 00:50:39.000
was a translation of his favorite Philosopher He's a very philosophical writer, as you probably heard in the in some of the readings.

00:50:39.000 --> 00:50:57.000
His favorite philosopher was spinoza it's kind of a you know someone who's trying to establish morality without without God, without the got, without the man in the clouds is human morality possible without the God in

00:50:57.000 --> 00:51:01.000
the clouds. Yes, it is specific, Spinoza, and this is how it works.

00:51:01.000 --> 00:51:05.000
Spinoza was hugely important to Rutherford, and his first thing he published was

00:51:05.000 --> 00:51:10.000
A translation. He also wrote books about words with who was another hero.

00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:20.000
He had lots of intellectual heroes. Okay, an interesting, right which I'm gonna look through here in the chat, see?

00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:31.000
Oh, actually can I ask? That is one other on that question he's very, actually another book he wrote He wrote a pamphlet in which he argued for the working class to be given the vote in the 1860 S. So he was a political He was a

00:51:31.000 --> 00:51:36.000
Radical. He was a politically a radical writer as well, so sorry about.

00:51:36.000 --> 00:51:41.000
That was another one he did. then. Yeah, okay, right let's see if we get any other questions.

00:51:41.000 --> 00:51:46.000
I think, yeah, everybody completely intrigued. so I never digitally enjoyed it.

00:51:46.000 --> 00:51:51.000
Hmm! I think that's all the questions and i'm gonna send him to.

00:51:51.000 --> 00:51:54.000
He's got any late ones they want to to throw in there.

00:51:54.000 --> 00:52:05.000
Hmm, no, I think , i guess he's not the only writer who's dealt with you know depression and melancholia and all that in novels they crop up in dickens and George

00:52:05.000 --> 00:52:20.000
edit all the time, you know. but you yeah good, a question pop in here and from Amal would you be able to say a little bit more about the Mark Brotherford society, because obviously you're the chair and very heavily

00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:31.000
involved a little bit. about that Well, first of all there's there's not many people in it because cause this is really not you know that I think there's about you know there's about 30 of us because he's

00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:36.000
just people just don't know him to be honest with you I although i'm the chair of the weather for society.

00:52:36.000 --> 00:52:47.000
I didn't want I didn't want it to exist in the first place, because I kind of liked to keep it a see a bit of a I like to keep it to myself, and and I and rather than says literally societies can be very

00:52:47.000 --> 00:52:51.000
irritating things really with the because they once you've got a literary society.

00:52:51.000 --> 00:52:54.000
Oh, my God! the next thing is, you have a conference.

00:52:54.000 --> 00:52:58.000
You have a conference, and it becomes academic and dull.

00:52:58.000 --> 00:53:02.000
And then people write conference papers which i'm afraid is what happened.

00:53:02.000 --> 00:53:05.000
We've had conferences we've had conference papers.

00:53:05.000 --> 00:53:18.000
I'm not hugely into that but what we also do is we try to find, and if we try to find anything any bits of stuff that that that important that's quite like we we found a 100 letters of his recently popped up in a

00:53:18.000 --> 00:53:24.000
bookshop. we raise the money to buy them we've got an archive in the University of Bedford.

00:53:24.000 --> 00:53:28.000
We're trying to as it will look after him and that's what I feel.

00:53:28.000 --> 00:53:39.000
Principally, i'm trying to do is look after him because you know he's not like dickens. There's not a not a you know. It's not he's not as well, known so he needs looking after but actually we

00:53:39.000 --> 00:53:43.000
have had. We have had a couple of good a couple of good conferences.

00:53:43.000 --> 00:53:49.000
I've got a link i'll i'll first we can arrange in some way to give you.

00:53:49.000 --> 00:53:56.000
There's a link. if you look up Mark relevant society you'll, you'll see it, and it'll tell you much more about him.

00:53:56.000 --> 00:54:11.000
Yeah, What we can do is once we get the recording of the lecture up onto the members area of the website. We can maybe Mark post up a document that's maybe got some useful links makes me Wonder what you wouldn't have

00:54:11.000 --> 00:54:19.000
done if you had it stumbled across I Oh, I think i'd be a lot, I mean, I think I don't. I don't know.

00:54:19.000 --> 00:54:22.000
I think i'd be it's been such a pain to me over the years.

00:54:22.000 --> 00:54:35.000
It's been such a pain to me because if you've got if you've got if dickens is your expertise, you've got instant status in the world of Victorian literature, or if if George Eliot

00:54:35.000 --> 00:54:38.000
gives you so much intellectual status mark Ratherford you know a failure.

00:54:38.000 --> 00:54:48.000
Who worries, the worries about depression it's it's It's been a really hard one I could get in the academic world, too, to get people really interested sometimes.

00:54:48.000 --> 00:54:54.000
I I i've what was your question again what would you have done with your life.

00:54:54.000 --> 00:55:00.000
If you hadn't stumbled across the box I think I would not have that's important.

00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:09.000
I think I don't know I have a thought about it I mean he's he's been a pain in so many ways.

00:55:09.000 --> 00:55:20.000
But it's like asking you it's like the sort of quit to me has been a kind of a friend to be honest with you, so it's like asking yourself what would it be like if I had not met this person life would not have been so

00:55:20.000 --> 00:55:24.000
good because he's become a he's become a friend do you know what I mean?

00:55:24.000 --> 00:55:44.000
He has, although he's dead but he's still a presence in my life that I really greatly value almost like a kind of a a relative a grandfather I figure so yeah, Okay, do you want to just take

00:55:44.000 --> 00:55:57.000
that down off , i'm just wanting to just double check the chat again quickly, just in case we've got anything else.

00:55:57.000 --> 00:56:06.000
I don't think we do actually I think I think that's us for today.

00:56:06.000 --> 00:56:08.000
Everybody, and what an intriguing story that was!

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Thank you, Fiona, and hopefully, you will not if you can hear what I'm saying.

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I think she can Okay, Okay, it's a delight for me to be here today to give you the what I think are the amazing art works on the London underground, and clearly we'll only have a chance to have a little bit of a

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taster today, within the hour that we have but we'll try and pick out some of the best

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The crucial thing about the arts of the underground is that anybody should be able to see it.

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In general it's behind you Unfortunately, as you wait for the train. it's on the platform wall behind, you so a lot of people can travel for a whole career.

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Never turn around and never appreciate all of the investment that's gone in to make it a more interesting place.

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But here I will explain to you as we go through it what the art works that we're covering mean, and it's usually about history or major events.

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Major personalities. So without more ado, I will just share my screen.

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So you can actually see some of the great artworks

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Right. and as you can see hopefully we're gonna start at latent stone station, not the premier station of the whole of the underground. I'm just moving a few things around while so that.

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I can make sure. I can see all of the screen.

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And just a little bit more. Okay, So let's ask see?

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See exactly what we're going to talk about walking to Isolation Stone Station.

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One fine sunny day you may think that you're seeing advertising posters on the size of the of the walls of the entrance, which is the normal expectation.

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But latent stone is celebrating the great works of film.

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Director, Alfred Hitchcock, on his sanctuary in 1999 clearly are well.

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After he died they decided to mark their local hero by putting a gallery of mosaics of his life, and works all over the station much better there than in some little visited gallery or museum.

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So this is what you can see on the left hand side a screen, a shot of Henry Fonder.

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You may recognize him with Alfred Hitchcock in the back on the right hand side.

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You can see if I still, from rebecca potentially his most famous film of all, i'm enlarging the mosaic of Rebecca, you see a lot of works gone into this from a local

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workshop, and this scene has Judith Anderson on the right hand side, as the housekeeper of Mandela, the mansion in which the to winter family lives.

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She is trying to persuade the second Mrs. de Winter to jump out of the window, because she in no way way compares with the first. Mrs.

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De winter. These mosaics have a bit of a local touch route for Hitchcock as well.

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So, instead of seeing Mandela the home of the winters in Cornwall, in the background, we see a chart. St.

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John's church in Latin stone so the designers here. have had a bit of fun which is the case in many of the artworks.

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Let's move on to another scene. probably the most famous of all the stills from all of his films psycho.

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And here we have poor Janet Lee in the shower, with

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Anthony Perkins behind, just ready to strike, and despite that, the courageous Alfred Hitchcock is standing there in the shower with the naked Janet.

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Lee so a scene note Nobody see who's seen the film will ever forget.

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So this is the 17 of those mosaics cover the walls of the Tube station.

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3 of them relate to scenes in Hitchcock to life.

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The other 14 are his most famous films. jump across London to West London, to South Kensington, and here, rather subliminally, I went past these artworks many times on the train.

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Never noticed them, because it's the the yellow or the sandy color almost disappears.

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But here at South Kensington, we have an exhibition of pictures of the way and extinct animals celebrated in the Natural History Museum, just up the road.

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Yeah, you've no doubt recognized the dodo last seen in 1662, and apart from the picture of the dodo, we have some patterning which reflects the terracotta patterning on the outside of the

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Museum, so a few elements from the institution altogether on the platform.

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And how did Mary Wooden, a young Rca. student, who won the design competition run by transport for London at the time?

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How did she select her animals? Well, this is the main entrance on the Cromwell road to the Natural History Museum, and you can see above the 2 arches of the entrance and exit.

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You can see the animals in sculpture a row of 5 of them.

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In this case. Well, if you look wider than that so the 2 wings of the buildings, you'll see sculptures of animals all over the building, especially on every pinnacle, on this classical Come, gothic structure, and

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so she's taken them. the if you look at the animals in the left wing that those are all in rare animals on the right wing, looking here you they're all extinct.

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So this is possibly a amazing design of the building here by Alfred Waterhouse, the famous architect for Nice to Town Hall, City Hall.

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Amongst other things, and probably the other random example i've chosen is because most people will point to it.

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If you've asked them about art on the Underground Byeker Street, famous for Sherlock Holmes.

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Yeah, we have 2 profiles of homes who are almost guarding the beat.

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The London underground round, or with baker Street. So everywhere on the platforms on the backend line that there's a roundable you will see those 2 profiles of Sherlock Holmes and the typical of the

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kind of innovation and interest that the artists took in all of these artworks.

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If you look very carefully at the profiles you'll see they're made up of pixels like in a good old fashioned newspaper.

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What are those pixels? Well, let's look at the pipes here?

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The pixels are themselves the same profile of show up code, and you'll see these profiles in both black and red, scattered around the platform and in the tunnels leading to it so typical adopt a

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theme for a station, and then use that theme to decorate many parts of it.

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So those are 3 random examples. i've given you but what I want to do now is get a bit more orderly.

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I want to take a take a trip with you up the northern line from Waterloo.

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At the bottom of the screen up to Mornington Crescent, just the other side of Houston.

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At the top of the screen. i've used that kind of Harry Beck style that is on the famous London underground.

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Mac. Yeah, to show our progress and we're going from south to North from this famous line there's many people refer to this as the misery line.

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It's the oldest steep on the ground line in the world.

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It's showing is age in many respects but perhaps to compensate for that and the crowding on this particular line.

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It has been well population with ours, and every every one of these stations that we see here apart from Goose Street, has amazing art instructions.

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So starting, and Waterloo above the escalators you may know. just certainly the passengers going down.

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The escalators Don't change you have noticed you will see an elephant seems to have wrapped its body round its body through through the brick work.

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That very thick wall. with the pillar coming down between the 2 arches.

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What on earth is that elephant doing standing there? Could it run a mock at any stage?

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This is the big question. Well, let's take a closer look at it.

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It is made of a metal grid it's not alive.

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It is a mobile pretty much life size. and basically this model was created around about 2,000 by an artist called Kendra Haste check to celebrate the previous role of the Tower of London as the Keeper of

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the animals of London Zoo, when it was the royal zoom, and it was called the Town Managerie.

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Eventually in 1832, The crown gave these the the rights for the Zoom and these live animals to to the city of London and Regents Park.

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Zoom was created but In the year 2,000, they decided.

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The authorities decided to set up a replica of the zoom in the Moach of the Tower of London.

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Composed of models of all sorts of animals, and when that exhibition finished they put the models up for sale and Waterloo.

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Grant the elephants. Why? Because in Lambda, right next to Waterloo there was in the 18 hundreds the first circus ring in the world with performing elephants and other animals, and so elephants have a particular resonance for the

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history of Waterloo, and the history of the Lambus

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Then we will take one stop at a time We'll go north from Waterloo, underneath the river Thames, and come to Embankment Tube Station, which, by definition, it lies on the Embankment built in

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Victorian times, and when the train pulls into Embankments station on one of the deep platforms we are but almost blinded by the bright white of the victories and animal panels that close the the platform and the running

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lines. So here the northern line has this bright white covering on all of the walls.

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But isn't just playing right it's red blue and black and you wonder I wonder what this is all about?

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It. Certainly a lot of a lot of the stations seem to be very dark underground.

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This is absolutely not the case for the embankment, but this design is is carried across all of the platforms of this station, so it clearly has some key reference, and if you go to a passageway halfway between the deep platforms and

00:12:41.000 --> 00:12:57.000
the subsurface platforms. you will find yeah a display which brings together a whole set of other colors as well. green and yellow, just being added to the colors we've already seen.

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Here you can see how some of the work A. of the underground, The arch of the underground is signed and dated bottom.

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Right of this slide, Robin Denny in 1985, not 1,988.

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So I got in the past in the panel at the top.

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So this is a work of art by a very reputable artist, one of the young British artists of the time.

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But what is it about? What is it embankment about?

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Well, it was built to provide a roadway going east west through London.

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London was 2 over built to provide any kind of boole of all East West.

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The embankment was put in place for that purpose and it's also put in place to create a sewer that would intersect all of the sewage that comes from North London, and was hitherto dumped in

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the tents. So let's have a look from a v view a map from above.

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What is the situation of the Embankment? And here you see the river chams weeping around in that big arc.

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The big red blob top left is in Bankman Tube station that we're studying, and just to the north of it is Charing Cross and 4 underground lines going through in Bank Link.

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2 of them, which are going east, west, and 2 roughly north south, and that dotted gray line going around the north bank of the Thames, is the track of the intersect sewer, which mainly cured the

00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:41.000
horrific conditions and smell of the Thames in early Victorian times.

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So would Robin Denny create an artwork that was depicting sewage.

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Well, no, you may know the colors here, that turk or other correlate with the colors on the pattern that he's created on the walls.

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The range. not the red it's a ready brown the black the yellow, and the green.

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So if we go back to the platform in particular to that passageway with all of the colors, the black represents a northern line, the brown, the bakeroo, the green the district line, the yellow the circle line so add to that to add a bit more pizza he's added

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red for the trains for the cars. Originally it was mandated that all underground trains should be read clearly.

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Silver has prompted in a number of cases in the blue.

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The excuse for the blue is the river flowing by just outside these walls, so that's the clue Robin Denny's playing again with the colors of the underground lines as in Harry That's famous map and

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Then we come to Charing Cross and Charing Cross Vise, with Top and Court Road, as being the most exceptional for arts, with 2 major art installations, and the first, one if anybody says the walls of the underground are just

00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:20.000
full of adverts, point them at Charing Cross and the northern line.

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Here we have something which is. It was like a bayer tapestry.

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Feverish activity, creating something, and you may not be surprised to know we're creating here the cross but charing 1294.

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So it's over 200 years after the battle of Hastings celebrated in with via tapestry.

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But still a very ancient scene, and this is a woodcut prints that is being blown up to the size to fit the platform.

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All is one of the images on that scroll. scroll.

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They're all painted by David gentlemen one of the leading illustrators of London.

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For the past. Well, probably 70 years now. So on the right we see King Edward the First, with the one male of his surviving children, and who became a king of the second.

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Yeah, he's a chain and on the left hand side. We see a carver, a sculptor, who is chipping away at the stone to create a statue of King of the first wife.

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It was dyed tragically on a passage that she was taking through England, and he decided to have a crosses installed at every place where her body rested on its way back from Lincoln.

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Where she died. Just imagine how this carver, who we understand, is either Alexander Rabbit or John with cough.

00:18:01.000 --> 00:18:07.000
This being painted this this scene taking place just after she died, hey?

00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:13.000
That's the challenge of actually making this sculpture into the most beautiful woman in the world.

00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:18.000
But of reasonable likeness of Queen. And so this is an Ln.

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Across. And now, clearly, the location of this last of the crosses is charing across the cross in the district of Chari, in London,

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They're all want 3 others of the involved There are 3 original crosses still standing here on the left.

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We have Gettington cross, which is a third of the way home from Lincoln.

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All of those other crosses with the red dots have gone.

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But as we get towards London, Wolf and cross, that is an Ellen across, and that is essentially as created in 1294, well worth visiting when he when they got to London with the with the coffin they

00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:12.000
stopped to cheat side overnight, and then came through to the west.

00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:29.000
So the palace of Whitehall charing and they I don't know whether it's true, but they're supposed to stop just outside the Palace at channeling Now the Charing cross you may say it's still

00:19:29.000 --> 00:19:41.000
there. Well, no, it was destroyed, and then, rebuilt by the railway company in, wanted to use across as a symbol of the respectability of their station on their line.

00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:50.000
So here the old fated cross of Charing. This is an illustration with one of the passages of Charing Cross now sadly closed.

00:19:50.000 --> 00:20:03.000
But you can see the Puritans tearing down the cross after an ordinance of being passed, that the Parliamentary Committee for the demolition of monuments, a superstition on a dollar.

00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:11.000
3 it. they. They determined that this should be taken down

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This aerial view of the area at the bottom the photo shows to found the swear.

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You may make out nelson's column with Nelson on top, and then above that heading heading south.

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We've got the white hole going down to the top right towards Guards Parade.

00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:36.000
Now at the bottom the yellow arrow points to where the original Charing Cross stood.

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Replaced after the restitution of the monarchy, by Charles the Second, with an equestrian statue of his father.

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Sadly on that course. He is looking down White Hall to the Banqueting House.

00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:59.000
The top arrows, pointing to the bank. quitting house which was, where just outside.

00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:12.000
Charles the First had his head cut off so for the rest of time. Charles the First is having to look at where he was quite ironic.

00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:27.000
We've seen one major art installation and charing cross, the other is on the Baker blue line platforms, and reflects the fact that these platforms are underneath to how the spare itself and the national gallery and we

00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:40.000
take copies of the great works of the gallery to decorate the platforms, so you can enjoy the art without even having to go up the surface and into the gap.

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I just really on the platform they show you the facade of the 2 museums, in case you're in any confusion as to where you are, and imagine stepping out of a car on the underground on the

00:21:56.000 --> 00:22:00.000
Bakeroo line to be confronted by this picture.

00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:06.000
This is Venus on the left. This is Mars, the god of war.

00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:23.000
On the right, and between them you see some phones who are carrying away the lance of the god of war with Mars, the picture being depicted here by Sandra Boticelli is Venus, who offered her Favors

00:22:23.000 --> 00:22:27.000
too many gentlemen of mythical in mythical times.

00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:36.000
She spent a lot of time with Mars, and not so much time with her husband, and here they spend a wonderful night together.

00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:44.000
Unfortunately, Mars has fallen asleep from his labors, and Venus is distinctly unimpressed.

00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:50.000
So quite a comic scene, really, from the days of mess.

00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:58.000
By this famous artist, who's other work includes works on the on the Sistine Chapel in Rome.

00:22:58.000 --> 00:23:07.000
One of the early office of the Renaissance, even though it was pounding ricello.

00:23:07.000 --> 00:23:16.000
And here, in a rather simplified version of the painting above, we have the battle of San Romano as ever Florence was fighting.

00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:26.000
Wars constantly with Sienna it's main local rival neighbors always seem to fall

00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:38.000
We have to ventures in the National Gallery. This cartoon, which Da Vinci never actually translated, transferred into a full scale oil painting buttons.

00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:46.000
This was still was just under a 1 million pounds when we acquired it in 1962.

00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:49.000
So something a work of which the gallery is very proud.

00:23:49.000 --> 00:23:59.000
Quite rightly, and then we've seen a renaissance gallery, as part of the platform.

00:23:59.000 --> 00:24:11.000
Now we also see some later works and let's go here a section of his work, the upper Reaches of the Grand Canal, and quite interestingly, these aren't tourist John Dollars.

00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:18.000
These are working, gone through in the middle

00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:36.000
On here what should be a fierce tiger, but actually looks like a rather playful tiger in a tropical steam storm by the post Impressionist French artist on re research this when you see the full painting on the walls of

00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:51.000
the gallery is is somewhat more vital and vibrant, but still this is a shocking site to greet you as you step onto the platform

00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:55.000
And then we take some work from the National Portrait Gallery.

00:24:55.000 --> 00:25:03.000
In particular, we focus on the Tutor Gallery, which is on, I think, the second floor of the national portrait.

00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:17.000
Okay. So here in the Tuba Gallery, they have collected the best contemporary works of art which, by definition, give the best idea of what these figures actually look like.

00:25:17.000 --> 00:25:30.000
Here on on the wall. we've taken what were various sizes of paintings, many of them much smaller, and change them, resize them into this standard presentation.

00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:37.000
So it does give a much more coherent picture of the great personities of the Tudor era.

00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:45.000
And in particular, you look yeah, on the right here from the middle of the right, Henry the Seventh, and Richard the Third.

00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:52.000
These 2 great rivals, and the battle of Boswell Field really determined the outcome.

00:25:52.000 --> 00:26:03.000
For many centuries afterwards, of the monarchy, Richard the Third killed in the battle, and Henry the Seventh triumphant, and starting the Tudor rain.

00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:08.000
This: Yeah,

00:26:08.000 --> 00:26:14.000
Another example from the platform wall. a good comparison, really.

00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:20.000
And Berlin on the left, Lady Mary on the right, and

00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:25.000
It was one of the typical pictures really of a daughter a stepdaughter and a stepmother.

00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:36.000
We didn't exactly get on Lady Mary became Queen Mary the first seems to have that set resolve expression on her face.

00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:46.000
A very determined lady, so very much representative of her role in history. I'm.

00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:49.000
Getting away from the Tudors and the monarchs a little bit clearly.

00:26:49.000 --> 00:26:54.000
Here we have the gunpowder plaus of 16 o 5.

00:26:54.000 --> 00:27:02.000
Wishing to get rid of the particular monet James the first It wasn't doing enough to receive the Catholic faith.

00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:07.000
This picture is taken from a 4 inches by 6 inches.

00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:24.000
Yeah, which is on display in the gallery itself. So a very small display from a news sheet that was produced at the time, and I think this is a game one of the best representations of the real life characters that You see

00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:40.000
here. One of the delights, unfortunately, of the 2 of the arts is that it is sitting on working platforms and at one stage London underground put bitter baskets along the walls.

00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:45.000
And then, because of the terrorists right, decided to take them away.

00:27:45.000 --> 00:28:03.000
So on the right here you can see a white plaque covering the holes and not quite covering the words from litter, or maybe is a reflection of the people

00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:08.000
So moving on less to square centre of the entertainment world.

00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:20.000
In particular the film world. and here, on the piccadilly line, we pop across that for now travel on the northern, you'll see a plane bit of wall as a platform wall.

00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:25.000
But it is set out like part of a film strip, with pocket holes at the top.

00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:41.000
On the bottom either side of the film I'm being the biggest any line. the blue line on the Mac this procket holes are in blue scripts by the side of the real engines and by the ancients and

00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:52.000
the exits from the platform. we have This kind of arch which, gives you an insight into what you'll see above coming to see a film or walk around the West End.

00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:57.000
The bright knee on lights and the dark blue sky above.

00:28:57.000 --> 00:29:06.000
Of this great world of entertainment above so that's the picaddy line the northern line.

00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:11.000
Now we're traversing we have the same sprocket whole arrangement chop and bottom.

00:29:11.000 --> 00:29:26.000
But here in black to the normal line, and appropriately, we have adverts for films in within the zoom the budget of the film strip and the entrance is an exit.

00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:34.000
Here have a deco procedure marches, as you would find in the local cinemas, especially the Odion.

00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:43.000
So a very garish they kind of projection here

00:29:43.000 --> 00:29:57.000
On call road. Advise with charing crosses the start of this show this evening, and let's have a look at the kind of thing that we will see if you go down to the bottom of the escalators towards the central line

00:29:57.000 --> 00:30:08.000
you'll be confronted by this predominantly white wall with mosaic tiles all over it, and mosaic patterns in parts of it.

00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:21.000
So we have a butterfly that we have some fairly abstract pattern, and as we look through, we look through what looks like a round room to the passageway to the platform beyond.

00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:32.000
What's this all about? These are the works of Eduardo, pal? not see the foremost sculpture in England after the war, and very much.

00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:41.000
His his major work, I think, in London is in the 4 course of British Library, and it is a statue of eyes of Newton.

00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:47.000
But here another famous of his many works, not a famous one.

00:30:47.000 --> 00:30:57.000
And if we go into that circular room which is referred to as the rotunda, it happens to be just an old lift shaft, not used anymore.

00:30:57.000 --> 00:31:14.000
But we see this platform of mosaic pictures and here representative of some of the things you'd see on this site over the past centuries, like the cow on the farm that was here more recently a nineteen-six is style

00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:24.000
young man striding along and towards Carniv. Street potentially on the other side of the road.

00:31:24.000 --> 00:31:29.000
Chamber. we'll see some even more interesting images on the left hand side.

00:31:29.000 --> 00:31:36.000
We'll see the sputnik the Russian satellite, the first series of Russian Satellites on the right.

00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:44.000
We'll see the chicken from the farm We mentioned earlier, and how lots he has signed his work there on the bottom right of the image.

00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:50.000
I'm showing 1984

00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:56.000
The Sputnik 2 satellite, 1957 that we just seen in the rotunda.

00:31:56.000 --> 00:32:00.000
Yeah, I just blowing up the painting together closer.

00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:07.000
Look at it, with sun shields. His power shields either side, but perhaps more romantically.

00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:12.000
We see like a you know, that yellow circle, the box to higher it.

00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:18.000
Unlike it was the dog that the Russians put up there to see whether or not life could be sustained.

00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:23.000
At the time the story was, and it did survive for 7 days.

00:32:23.000 --> 00:32:33.000
There was no plan to get it back sadly now. we think that was a bit of Russian propaganda, and he died within 4 h.

00:32:33.000 --> 00:32:42.000
I'll take off. So here is that one of the bright chicken, which seems to have some mechanical innards to it.

00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:53.000
So now let's see playing with the structure this creature but now let's look at the platforms and cells on the central line.

00:32:53.000 --> 00:33:06.000
The platforms are this a part of the platforms. A central plants are covered in normal zones, very bright on the central line side. less so on the northern line, and

00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:15.000
It is quite an amazing display. in particular. some of the objects are quite easy to diagnose.

00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:27.000
Here we have saxophones, and they represent Tin Pan Alley, which is the music district of London, just above

00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:34.000
Yeah. Another view of the same platform showing how the mosaics go right up to the top of the vault.

00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:43.000
The top of the tunnel, so it's an amazing scale of work that was done here.

00:33:43.000 --> 00:33:49.000
Other pictures I tend to see. This is an an image which would be saved from the beetles.

00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:58.000
A yellow submarine, and the kind of Monty part python style of representation, intention.

00:33:58.000 --> 00:34:02.000
And here parallel, she has chosen a design of an African mask.

00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:12.000
Again as an excuse for a brightly colored display on the platform wall.

00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:16.000
Yeah, in Chopin Court Road, all in line.

00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:22.000
We see, as I say, rather muted colors from this rather vicious a lime green.

00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:30.000
But this is all totally abstract. so maybe not as interesting assessing detail.

00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:48.000
And when we look down the platform in this particular point, we can also see passageway between the 2 platforms of the northern line, which has a pure black and white display in it, with my zones

00:34:48.000 --> 00:35:03.000
Absolute shot wave went through the world of London culture and i'm not i'm, not over emphasizing the situation when with the building of cross rail going through very close to the within inches of these platform tunnels

00:35:03.000 --> 00:35:14.000
let's see that these particular platforms would have to be straight back to their to their core, and all of these mosaics would be lost.

00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:21.000
Huge protests from the literatureology, the culture of the country of the London.

00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:32.000
But in particular, and in the end transfer for them, then spent 1.3 million, taking all of these off tile by tile, Tester Ii.

00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:38.000
And then cleaning them up and putting them back again

00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:45.000
And then we've looked at the middle level of the passageways and the rotten, the platforms and cells.

00:35:45.000 --> 00:36:01.000
But coming back up to the surface with Crosswell, we have a complete expanded station, with entrances like this on top and court load, all to a daycore defined by Daniel Buren, one of the chop

00:36:01.000 --> 00:36:09.000
artists from France. for doing this kind of style. Work is kind of decor, so very simple. Black and white.

00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:16.000
Stripes and circles, and damonds, or other geometric shapes?

00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:20.000
Is this: Would you recognize? This is Daniel Bureau If you knew his work?

00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:35.000
You absolutely would. This is Daniel buren's work at the Paneling Royal in Paris, right next to the Louvre, you see, is installed even more columns, so I add to the columns of this

00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:42.000
ancient building, and you've covered these columns with the black and white strip stones.

00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:48.000
These are not chunks of Black Ball Rock. These are meant to be a respectful but additional feature.

00:36:48.000 --> 00:37:08.000
So this hold the area of colonies. Here, on the central line and crossroad rails side of the station, we have a rather more colorful set of geometric shapes, so which I think really brings alive.

00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:23.000
What would previously being very confined, and dark spaces and under Charing crossroad between those 2 entrances, there's now a vast concourse where they even have a little display case on the right it's not

00:37:23.000 --> 00:37:31.000
a display case from the crucial salts. This is a display case for the designs of Daniel Buren.

00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:39.000
You must be laughing all the way to the bank with the with the money he would adopt from this commission.

00:37:39.000 --> 00:37:45.000
Or in street, is now next stop. Warren was the name of a famous lady who lived there.

00:37:45.000 --> 00:38:00.000
But when we come to art we don't necessarily have to have pictures depicting the figure not very famous, why don't we have a play on loads, as we often do on the Victoria line?

00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:16.000
Yeah, Victoria on platforms. And basically, apart from having a rabbit warrant, we have amazed the traditional maze in 3 seat recess on the platforms, and more cunningness on the part of the

00:38:16.000 --> 00:38:20.000
artist design to be a 4 min puzzle.

00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:26.000
Thanks for me just to solve your way to find your way from the to the center.

00:38:26.000 --> 00:38:32.000
Trains come in every 2 min, so unless you want to let trains go by.

00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:38.000
You'll never be able to solve this puzzle

00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:49.000
Strangely give them. The London underground spain an enormous amount of money and advertising on convincing is all enabling.

00:38:49.000 --> 00:38:54.000
It's also navigate easily around the underground the map to the signage, and so forth.

00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:58.000
They love art, which shows mazes and labyrinth.

00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:06.000
So in 2,000 1,350 years of the London underground, they decide to get, not volunteer.

00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:15.000
Another famous young British artist to produce 270 different labyrinths, only 2 foot by 2 feet panel.

00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:33.000
And so there's one of these on every station, in the network The number one station here is in chess, and they're all numbered, as you see bottom right on the tablet, one out of 270 thanks the obvious

00:39:33.000 --> 00:39:43.000
question with what the last one, and it is on the last one built. he's throw terminal 5 before we get into the new generation.

00:39:43.000 --> 00:39:48.000
Now further stations, and I don't think they're going to carry the labyrinth forward.

00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:56.000
And all these numbers just chronological. No, these are numbered in the sequence.

00:39:56.000 --> 00:40:00.000
That is the optimum sequence to trying to break the record.

00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:08.000
The Guinness World record, traveling through every station of the Underground in the minimum time, something like 16 h.

00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:17.000
So be guided by the numbers, if you're going to take tackle that particular record, and you can share with the picture of all the platform.

00:40:17.000 --> 00:40:23.000
And the access points to the platform that's the typical quite difficult to find.

00:40:23.000 --> 00:40:39.000
Sometimes scale and location of the labyrinth, and then we come to Houston, the main line station, and a very busy underground station beneath.

00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:48.000
And here, going down to we on the Northern line platforms, and we have this rather spectacular set of colors.

00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:52.000
Any authentic. Yes, yes, I think this is.

00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:59.000
This is using the Pete Mondrian styling of blocks of color as modern arts.

00:40:59.000 --> 00:41:13.000
You may have been but the colors and these blue and white battles, diagonals the meaning of them is I'm absolutely important to the reason for that being here.

00:41:13.000 --> 00:41:17.000
These are the colors of a coach of arms, a royal coat of arms.

00:41:17.000 --> 00:41:27.000
Henry Charles Fitz Roy. he became the Earl of Houston, and hence the naming of the station.

00:41:27.000 --> 00:41:35.000
Here. he's not the only name fitz roy He was given land around the station, but before the station existed.

00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:40.000
Clearly. This is the time of Charles the Second, which is now called Fitzerovia.

00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:48.000
So you see how these names all tie together. This blue and white bachelor was interesting.

00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:58.000
The bill. My baton basically says this may be a royal coat of arms, but this is an illegitimate successor and illuminate member of the family.

00:41:58.000 --> 00:42:10.000
Charles a Second had no legitimate children. and therefore, all of his many children from many mistresses. We're given this styling on their arms.

00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:17.000
No something to be not a slur on the character of the gentleman in the days of Charles the Second.

00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:25.000
Anything goes in those days, and here it's interesting just to follow that theme through a little bit.

00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:29.000
So, Charles a Second. on the left we have his favorite mysteries.

00:42:29.000 --> 00:42:39.000
Barbara Villiers on the right, who was herself given various titles, and then in the picture in the middle we have Henry Charles F.

00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:48.000
Roy was given lines in the estate of Houston, in the village of Houston, just south of Cambridge.

00:42:48.000 --> 00:42:54.000
That's where the name Houston comes from Bob Ravilius is interesting.

00:42:54.000 --> 00:43:03.000
She was given the title Duchess of Cleveland, and as part of Marriages, but she was also called Baroness Non.

00:43:03.000 --> 00:43:21.000
Such, which is quite interesting, because later in their relationship, when the gambling debts of Barbara Villas were getting beyond countenance, Charles the Second gave her non such palace a great palace in yep some which he had

00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:28.000
to get had built by Henry the Eighth. so

00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:41.000
This palace was given to to bob rebellious i've heard by a gambling dance, and then she couldn't sell the palace, so she knocked it down and sold the contents and cold fairness, non

00:43:41.000 --> 00:43:54.000
such because of that time. So this area you could call a baroness hard out very much a coloration to the figure in Cinderella.

00:43:54.000 --> 00:44:04.000
So. from all of that story we do at least have a very beautifully and brightly licked and colored platform.

00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:15.000
After our long journeys from the North into Houston, and traveling almost the other great art work at Houston Bridge on work in my terms.

00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:22.000
Is that very simple diagram you can see of the Houston Arch, a great arch.

00:44:22.000 --> 00:44:30.000
We used to form the entrance to Houston station, but was cruelly, and in my terms criminally destroyed.

00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:39.000
In a modernization program when they rebuilt the Houston station in the 19 sixtys.

00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:45.000
Why is that so horrible a thing to happen i'm sure many of you know the story?

00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:52.000
But first of all, why why have this kind of arch at the entrance to Houston?

00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:58.000
Well, they decided to copy the entrance to the Acropolis in ancient Greece.

00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:04.000
In these days. The entrance you can see at the bottom here, called the propellant

00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:07.000
These days it's lost in ruth and various other parts of it.

00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:14.000
But basically it looked like the Houston arch. rather more complicated and rather deeper set.

00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:22.000
But this is the design of a Purple am but it's the entrance from the Egyptian, sorry from the Greek origin.

00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:30.000
Original version to a sacred place, and why would you still be called a sacred place?

00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:36.000
Well, it's the first main line station in the capital city in the world.

00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:51.000
So if that isn't worth celebrating mornings and here was a rather sign on up cleared view. all they used to Arch when it was first built.

00:45:51.000 --> 00:46:03.000
1839. These are very early days and the door account she's in the middle as you see it doesn't actually have arches.

00:46:03.000 --> 00:46:08.000
It has that flat so top to it, with then a pediment above.

00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:15.000
Pavilions on the side for doing various functional tasks, and between the columns the arms.

00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:30.000
You can see the railway building and both beyond so I absolutely grand entrance to this famous innovative a bit of modern industry.

00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:40.000
I'm when it was deemed that the rebuilding of Houston would not need for it to be pulled down, because now it'd be halfway down platform.

00:46:40.000 --> 00:46:46.000
6. they move the whole station when they modernized it the protests that we weren't saving it.

00:46:46.000 --> 00:46:53.000
If, if by moving it fine. Benjamin was saying that the British Constitution collapsed.

00:46:53.000 --> 00:46:59.000
If we were so careless and salute, lose such a great asset?

00:46:59.000 --> 00:47:07.000
Have No; The great architectural critic after the war of England is word sublime.

00:47:07.000 --> 00:47:10.000
Proud as grandiose. Is anything the Greeks the company?

00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:17.000
Yeah. but clearly the competitors of the line out of Houston.

00:47:17.000 --> 00:47:30.000
Were pretty scathing the great Western Row I costly offensive, full of pretension, and who's done all of that Gothic work in the House of Parliament and elsewhere.

00:47:30.000 --> 00:47:37.000
Hey, look to go of this travels and swift, and and saw it as a scene from Rob Digg. thing.

00:47:37.000 --> 00:47:47.000
Nag uproar, making people feel like ants.

00:47:47.000 --> 00:47:57.000
Anyway. the yeah, the arch was destroyed a other countries. don't seem to get rid of their great monuments.

00:47:57.000 --> 00:48:03.000
Yeah, but Berlin is in particular treasure the propellant.

00:48:03.000 --> 00:48:08.000
You see the similarities here to the proper am of the Eternal.

00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:19.000
And despite everything that happens in Berlin over the past 200 plus years that is still revered, and everywhere it is the iconic gamble of both.

00:48:19.000 --> 00:48:25.000
In. we conclude our trip up the northern line at Mornington.

00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:33.000
Present, which, for many a reason, is somewhere my treasure

00:48:33.000 --> 00:48:38.000
We'll see a couple of the reasons why when we look at the the surrounds.

00:48:38.000 --> 00:48:48.000
The station, because here we have a big Bjou little station, one of the smallest stations in Central London on the left hand side.

00:48:48.000 --> 00:48:56.000
One of those 7 bunch look across the road.

00:48:56.000 --> 00:49:12.000
The Hampshire road. From there, on the right hand side, you see a very strange building, which looks a bit like like an Egyptian art decade temple, and is absolutely models on that type of building.

00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:22.000
It is a cigarette factory, the career as factory as built, and that factory replaced a set of gardens.

00:49:22.000 --> 00:49:34.000
That tree is one of one of the few salutations to the original, peaceful scene here, with a beautiful set of gardens on the right hand side.

00:49:34.000 --> 00:49:41.000
So what is the story? Well, morning, to increase this is part of Mornington.

00:49:41.000 --> 00:49:50.000
Presence. it's behind what is now the career as factory which is now called Greater London House, is an office building, a very sumptuous one.

00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:55.000
But Mornington Crescent is still there, the present of Georgian houses.

00:49:55.000 --> 00:50:04.000
In 4 h which go around the great be making one great arch around the back of that factory building.

00:50:04.000 --> 00:50:17.000
Bills in the 18 twenties i'm facing onto this beautiful garden, with its trees and its grass

00:50:17.000 --> 00:50:28.000
It wasn't quite a high profile presence of georgetown houses, a very, very smart place to live, and you can see some of the decoration here.

00:50:28.000 --> 00:50:33.000
The rustication of this ground floor with the stuck of

00:50:33.000 --> 00:50:39.000
The railings in front of it. go up to the first floor, the piano noble A.

00:50:39.000 --> 00:50:48.000
And we have some beautiful roles, iron, a standard pattern that goes right around all 4 sections of the crescent.

00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:53.000
So this was a very fine place to live through the Victorian period.

00:50:53.000 --> 00:51:02.000
Until we comes to the twentieth century, when suddenly, bang!

00:51:02.000 --> 00:51:14.000
On top of the gardens we find this huge factory, which completely dwarfs and obliterates the view of the crescent of Georgian houses.

00:51:14.000 --> 00:51:20.000
With this yellow line, and, as you can see, they are looking at the back of a factory building.

00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:23.000
No, no, Egypt should not deco styling.

00:51:23.000 --> 00:51:32.000
Here we leave that to the main facade where we're proclaiming, Oh, hello! Artistic and culture!

00:51:32.000 --> 00:51:42.000
We are as a cigarette company so what happens let's have a look at the sequence of events.

00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:49.000
Yeah, what I call stages of blind of this area. So if you look on the right hand side in yellow.

00:51:49.000 --> 00:52:05.000
I've got a little block with 1 1822, which is when the present started to be built in sections, and then it sits there looking across these gardens and the gardens beyond with that number 5 on them

00:52:05.000 --> 00:52:11.000
living there quite happily. Well, actually, only for 15 years, because bottom right?

00:52:11.000 --> 00:52:31.000
Event Number 2, 1837, the building of Houston, and the lines coming out of Houston, solving some of the back gardens of the Creation, and we have state engines belching spoke smoke across the back gardens

00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:37.000
of the buildings. Here the questions, Linda, and item, 3 top left hand corner.

00:52:37.000 --> 00:52:46.000
We have the arrival of that little Oxford Ring Tube station which no doubt was one of the attractions for building a factory.

00:52:46.000 --> 00:52:54.000
Here. people will be able to come here to work. And they did from all across London, using the tube network.

00:52:54.000 --> 00:53:00.000
I should number 4 event number 4 in 1928.

00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:06.000
The owner of the free hold of the gardens, fed up with the residents of the present.

00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:11.000
Not the Jews for the lease and the use of the gardens.

00:53:11.000 --> 00:53:27.000
And he said, right i'm gonna sell them thank you Anyway, with the money, and this building was constructed huge out pouring of anger across London a bit like the destruction of the power.

00:53:27.000 --> 00:53:30.000
See new mosaics and such an outcry.

00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:44.000
Questions in the house. in 1931 up, an act was passed which protected 100 other squares and presence in London.

00:53:44.000 --> 00:53:52.000
So mornings and crescent died, such that all of those other green spaces in London could survive flourish.

00:53:52.000 --> 00:54:02.000
Launching the Shangaan. Possibly, but the owners, no doubt many of them would have been looking to sell them for a nice profit.

00:54:02.000 --> 00:54:18.000
So a side story. But Let's just as we come towards the end of this, sure from Waterloo up to mornings and present that at least celebrate the finest art deco building in London.

00:54:18.000 --> 00:54:24.000
Even finer to me than on the Western Avenue or the Hoover.

00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:32.000
The old Hoover factory. This is such a beautiful rendition, and well care for rendition of Egyptian or deco.

00:54:32.000 --> 00:54:38.000
From that curves concave con corners at the top through to the black cat.

00:54:38.000 --> 00:54:54.000
It's a symbol of the Careers company it's the image taking through into one of its major brands the columns decorated in Egyptian plants with papyrus, and so forth, and various

00:54:54.000 --> 00:55:04.000
pipe colors of patterns of typing on the entrance on the left hand side, and to the Egyptian feline goddesses guarding the entrance.

00:55:04.000 --> 00:55:12.000
You may just be able to see that

00:55:12.000 --> 00:55:15.000
So we come to the end of our session today.

00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:18.000
This is a chip of the iceberg.

00:55:18.000 --> 00:55:32.000
It does. take me 20 h on my main course on The art of the London underground, and we cover many many parts of London's history, and the famous people that are passed through this great city.

00:55:32.000 --> 00:55:36.000
You may well be able to guess. This is heathron terminals.

00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:42.000
1, 2, 3, which was the home of Concord, and these are Concord tail things.

00:55:42.000 --> 00:56:01.000
But so with that with that I will conclude and so my sharing the screen such that we can feel any questions may have arisen, and I hope you aren't giddy from that very rapid tour Thank

00:56:01.000 --> 00:56:09.000
you very much, Mike. That was brilliant okay, i'm just gonna launch into some questions. So now people want to keep them coming in for the time being. That's great.

00:56:09.000 --> 00:56:22.000
No, i'm gonna start from the top no there was one question we back when you were talking about the Eleanor crosses, and we have a a question from Helen.

00:56:22.000 --> 00:56:27.000
She had always thought that Queen Elena died in Harvey, which is a small village in Nottinghamshire.

00:56:27.000 --> 00:56:33.000
There is a chantry chapel that was built there and a primary school called the Eleanor School.

00:56:33.000 --> 00:56:37.000
I don't know whether that's something that you know anything about

00:56:37.000 --> 00:56:44.000
No, it's not. Perhaps I haven't gone back enough in in terms of my researches.

00:56:44.000 --> 00:56:47.000
But I will certainly look at that, and thank you very much for that.

00:56:47.000 --> 00:57:00.000
. good, interesting, Okay, great. Now let's have a look. No, he was quite an important question, and this couple of comments to sort of supplement it as well.

00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:07.000
And questions from Francesca are there any art works by female artists on the line or elsewhere in the network.

00:57:07.000 --> 00:57:15.000
And We've got a couple of comments, and I think Lisa saying, hold on seconds. No, elizabeth.

00:57:15.000 --> 00:57:22.000
Nope, Nope, Lisa. She thinks this one, and by have a Phillipson somewhere on the network.

00:57:22.000 --> 00:57:30.000
And Chris suggesting that there is some tracy eman aren't work at some pointress.

00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:35.000
Yes, let me go through that there's a there's a large number.

00:57:35.000 --> 00:57:43.000
Okay. works by women. Why, women artists. We saw Kensington with the animals there when

00:57:43.000 --> 00:58:01.000
Mary Wooden was a young Rca student but one artist i'm just starting for a name has done 3 or 4, including Finsbury Park balloons floating down the platform which is

00:58:01.000 --> 00:58:19.000
an amazing creation. and to me represents reflects the fact that the first manned flight took place from Finsbury, and by balloon, by how hydrogen balloon in in 1794 so

00:58:19.000 --> 00:58:24.000
There are a number of other ladies, especially in the 1980 S.

00:58:24.000 --> 00:58:32.000
And ninetys. There was some quite large programs of work done on art, and a lot of the artists were women.

00:58:32.000 --> 00:58:40.000
So yeah, they are well represented in this work. Okay, Tracy, I mean.

00:58:40.000 --> 00:58:47.000
Yes, she's done some have a her neon writing all over the the main engine sheet.

00:58:47.000 --> 00:58:53.000
Oh, by the clock at the end of some bank was station I don't think she's done anything on the underground.

00:58:53.000 --> 00:59:02.000
Okay, right. no, we've got no question this is maybe quite a difficult one for you.

00:59:02.000 --> 00:59:09.000
Which is your favorite station You've got quite a lot to choose from

00:59:09.000 --> 00:59:17.000
That is, from Catalan. she's asking my favorite station is probably Tom and Court Road.

00:59:17.000 --> 00:59:26.000
Because we have one of england's greatest artists on on the platform levels.

00:59:26.000 --> 00:59:39.000
We have one of France's greatest awesome design designers now in the new cross rail, and and clearly it's been expanded vastly. so.

00:59:39.000 --> 00:59:49.000
Now it is a fabulous station to use, whereas in the old days you know, it was pretty pretty tough, and the getting very, very tired.

00:59:49.000 --> 00:59:55.000
But but I think Sharon Cross runs it a close second.

00:59:55.000 --> 01:00:09.000
Okay, Alright, let me have a little look see if we have any other questions, cause I think I think everybody's been so fascinated by what you've been showing them today that we don't have huge numbers. of questions.

01:00:09.000 --> 01:00:20.000
But let me have a little look. Lots of those comments that i'm going to pass on to tomorrow, mike and interesting comments.

01:00:20.000 --> 01:00:26.000
Oh, this is quite an interesting one. Comment actually rather than the question that's just come in.

01:00:26.000 --> 01:00:40.000
But maybe something that you're able to maybe talk a little bit about in terms of cocktail and Court Roads and Jacqueline saying that this story a theater was demolished to make way for the expansion of the station

01:00:40.000 --> 01:00:46.000
there I don't know if that's something that you you have some knowledge about.

01:00:46.000 --> 01:01:04.000
Yes, totally, and the whole city block was destroyed on the corner of Oxford Street and Charing Cross Road, and right down to the Astoria, which had become a very popular mainstream music Venue and Club, and could seat and I think

01:01:04.000 --> 01:01:10.000
it's up to 2,000 people. so it was quite a lost to the London entertainment world.

01:01:10.000 --> 01:01:22.000
But we also lost Charing Crossroad for about 3 years, while we built that big concourse underneath it, and it was pretty chaotic trying to get around that that area of London.

01:01:22.000 --> 01:01:33.000
But now now we will have the benefit of that I could I could make a little comments about how we compare with other countries in this respect.

01:01:33.000 --> 01:01:38.000
If there aren't any yeah that would be really interesting, actually. Yes, go ahead. Okay.

01:01:38.000 --> 01:01:56.000
Well, My one of my most popular courses is the art of the Paris Metro, and they not only to have great art on their platforms, which is very much part of the tourist offering, and they're never very to aggrandize the wonderful

01:01:56.000 --> 01:02:05.000
city of Paris. and they publicize it with publications by the Metro, by the Sncf.

01:02:05.000 --> 01:02:09.000
Whereas we tend not to we're still waiting for me to write the book.

01:02:09.000 --> 01:02:18.000
I think one of my also very populous course, used to be on the art of the Moscow metro metro.

01:02:18.000 --> 01:02:24.000
But for some strange reason nobody wants to celebrate the Moscow, Metro and the St.

01:02:24.000 --> 01:02:30.000
Petersburg, Metro at the moment, for reasons I can totally understand

01:02:30.000 --> 01:02:36.000
But also you look around the world, every city with a Metro.

01:02:36.000 --> 01:02:44.000
Apart from one or 2 exceptions, uses all of that blank wall space to create art and to create decoration.

01:02:44.000 --> 01:02:49.000
And I could show you great work from such places as as

01:02:49.000 --> 01:03:00.000
Wine as aries. is a particular fantastic one rio de Janeiro, and also pyongyang wonderful underground, which I haven't.

01:03:00.000 --> 01:03:07.000
I've been to myself, but you can actually I have actually got pictures of propaganda all over.

01:03:07.000 --> 01:03:12.000
The Metro that's missing i've actually got another question here for you and Mike.

01:03:12.000 --> 01:03:19.000
This is from david's he's asking is the program of art on the underground continuing will there be more works to see.

01:03:19.000 --> 01:03:23.000
And is that a source to help us identify the arts as we go round the tube?

01:03:23.000 --> 01:03:42.000
Right. The Underground arts has developed in fits and star 7 ever since the 19 sixties, when the Victoria Line, which was built in such a cheap, commercially driven way, they felt they had to live in it up a bit so every

01:03:42.000 --> 01:03:48.000
station on the Victoria line has a work of our an appropriate work of art.

01:03:48.000 --> 01:03:51.000
But then there was some in the eighties, some in the nineties, and so forth.

01:03:51.000 --> 01:04:03.000
But every time we have any difficulty with the economy or with the finances of transport for London, we tend to stop whatever program is ongoing.

01:04:03.000 --> 01:04:07.000
As an example, the London over overground, as great works of art.

01:04:07.000 --> 01:04:15.000
And there was a concerted program at the beginning to put on a whole range of stations on London overground.

01:04:15.000 --> 01:04:24.000
And the guy that was running it from a well, very much from a management point of view at the time.

01:04:24.000 --> 01:04:38.000
The early 2 thousands with somebody you May not have heard of Then i'll send something called Boris Johnson, and when he went to Hamststead Station to open the art of the overground he committed to a program of

01:04:38.000 --> 01:04:48.000
art going right across the overground. And after that time another 2 art installations were created and no more.

01:04:48.000 --> 01:04:52.000
Okay because of the usual problems of inadequate finance.

01:04:52.000 --> 01:05:00.000
And are there other priorities? Okay? Well, I think that's about it for for us today?

01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:02.000
Thanks very much for that bike that was really fascinating.

01:05:02.000 --> 01:05:21.000
Some fabulous images as well, and I'm sure and we've all at some time, or another rushed through the underground, and just never taken the time to look around us I'm guilty of that I have to say!

00:00:08.000 --> 00:00:13.000
Michael is an honorary fellow of the University of Lester.

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He has written over 30 books and articles on a range of themes within the area of modern history, his special fields being European and Chinese history.

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In addition to university teaching in the Uk. he has lectured in France, Germany, Russia, and Australia, and a regular participant at international conferences.

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He has also frequently appeared on television as a talking head in a series of history documentaries.

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So welcome to you, Michael, and I think without any further ado.

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I shall just hand straight over to you. Thank you very much. if I just take this off.

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Got it. well welcome everyone. as fiona said we're dealing today with the most extraordinary woman. One of the outstanding features of the twentieth century.

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Indeed factorism. The ideology to which she gave her name is still highly relevant to modern politics.

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So today, I thought I'm trying to give some of the the essence of Mrs.

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Thatcher as an individual in government. there are so many aspects of the her career.

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We could concentrate on but i'll i'll select some specifics which I think give I hope will give a rounded picture of her.

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I think the first thing point i'd make about her is that she was very much an outsider in the political world to which he contributed.

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Indeed, before she became leader of the Conservative party.

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If you would, said, This is the type of leader who will emerge in the late seventies I don't think many people would have believed you a woman.

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It. A woman who led a would come to leave a traditional party.

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Some would even say a reactionary party and that she would hold office as Prime Minister for over a decade.

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So 15 years leading a party and over a decade leading a government That is extraordinary.

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And I stress that because one of the things that about her was that she didn't advance the cause of feminism, some of the sisters in the movement said she, wasn't a good feminist well, that's their point of view

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I just suggest that it is extraordinary that a woman could have done what she did in that period because she did it.

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We now take it for granted we look back. and Oh, yes, or not became a woman who led government at a party led government.

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But that is so unlikely before it actually happened so that's the first point i'd stress she is remarkable as a woman in dominating a party that was traditionally wholly male dominant orientated and then

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leading a government which no woman had ever done before. Certainly in Britain there are individual ladies around the world.

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This is Bandra Nayaka for example in old Salon, but the idea of a woman leading a government in England, Britain.

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It's truly remarkable, and I think that's the point I i'd stress at the very beginning.

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She is a very unusual person, and a Betty on a very unusual performing some very unusual activities.

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Well, let me share some slides with you. We can make our points in regard to this as we go through the that should now show you Mrs.

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Thatcher tb w I was going to ask what you think those letters stand for, but I won't because it's slightly rude.

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But I better tell you that bloody woman, and that was the 3 letter reference that her own colleagues gave her when she was in government.

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She was so so much a presence, even she wasn't there Physically they felt her presence, and they referred to her, I mean, half disparagingly and half an admiringly.

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Has that Bloody woman you couldn't ignore her whether she was there or not, and I've subtitled the the talk Britain's most successful revolutionary, which may seem a strange claim given that she was a

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conservative. I think most commentators now do agree that she did revolutionize British politics.

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We try to make that point as we go through there's a picture of receptionary, not the everyone based on the keg of our concept isn't it, but it makes this point, Margaret Thatcher a very revolutionary

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and then this statement, which I read in the great biography that Charles moore's written 3 volume biography, and he said, and I think it's a very good line to pick up on her true

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significance lies in. not what she did but in what she was, and I think that's very powerfully put and very pertinently put It goes back to a book he said just now about her being a woman in a

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man's world, and what she represented culturally internationally politically, is so significant.

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Leader party Prime Minister. Extraordinary period with as we said I don't think anybody could have foreseen that least of all herself.

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This is one of the remarkable things she was interviewed on children's television, I think, in the middle seventys one of the one of the children asked her.

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Would she ever be a prime minister? she'd all know I don't think we'll ever see a lady as Prime Minister in my time.

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Now. she may have been self-facing but I think she meant it, and it made perfect sense at the time that she said it.

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One couldn't foresee this why did it happen then Well, you'd have to say from the negative there wasn't anybody that could match her within the Conservative party that when Ted heath had gone having failed in his

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period of government. there really was no body that could match her potential, and I think most of the old guard in the conservative party saw her as an interim. A stop gap will let her run for a bit.

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And then we'll get back to the realize that once she was in.

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She would stay in for 15 years as a leader, and then extraordinarily, of course, becoming a Prime Minister.

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Now I put this Cartoon in I think it's brilliant cartoons, say so much you could write the history of so much of of Britain.

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Indeed of the world through cartoons. and this shows

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A police put at the door of Mrs. thatcher's house? she's he's asking did you get a good look at the man who stole your clothes and round the corner is Tony Blair dressed as Mrs.

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T I, while that's amusing It also makes a very profound point, that what followed Mrs.

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Thatcher was Blairism. it's a John made interlude, of course, but Blairism is essentially a restatement of so many of the thatcherite principles that she had laid down and that's not just an

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observation from outside Tony Blair himself, and then Gordon Brown the other.

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Later late they believed they both acknowledged their debt to her that she had changed the face of politics in in ways which we we can example as we go.

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Through. but I think it it is well worth stressing that that the 2 labour leaders who followed acknowledge that she had prepared the way for them in an extraordinary way.

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Politics are never the same. Indeed, Blairism some would say is factorism.

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It's a second phase of thatcherism which is remarkable point of view, which is to say that the labor party modified itself in the light of what she had done in her years in office just a few pictures here to give us

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an impression of the young lady that she was rather prim on the right hand side.

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Quite a nice smile. On our left there there's a sweet picture of her.

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I I did a book on British history. a textbook for schools. actually, and I wanted to put on the cover a rather nice picture of her, and the publisher said, No, no, no, no, they won't do you've got to show her

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looking grim because that's that's the public memory of her.

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So I did exceed to that in the end we didn't put on at all, and we put a picture of her after scarle on the front, which may be something to climb down.

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But to see where we are going from there. she had a scientific background and a number of writers, including, say, our main biographer, say she's unusual in that sense, most party leaders most Prime Ministers excuse

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me in Britain. came from a legal or an artistic background.

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Very few scientists and she is exceptional in that regard and it's more than just an oddity.

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Some would say that her understanding of the world as It was came from a practical interpretation that came from her scientific training, which is mentoring thought to to dwell upon

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I've listed them and down all of these now i've just listed there.

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The main features of her Korea as she rose from quite humble origins in Lincoln cheer. In Grantham a father was a grocer.

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She lived over the shop. and she rose through our own efforts to get to Oxford. and you got a scholarship to go to opposite, read chemistry and law there.

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Very good background, really, for someone's gonna live in the world in the way that she did so.

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She trains as a lawyer after her training as a scientist, a chemist Stand Conservative candidate.

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I remember that from my very youthful days I remember standing and losing a in in our local constituency.

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In darted. she marries into a rich inheritance, as it were, and to become the wife of a millionaire, which gave her a great boost, of course, in financial terms.

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And it was said that, the husband, or she said the husband was her great support in a way that Churchill's wife had been a great support to him.

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Interesting idea that the fella, the man could be supported in the way that Clementine Churchill had been to Churchill.

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Interesting notion that isn't it in 53 just for detail here that might interest you.

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She gave birth to twins by Cesarean section.

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If one is interested in that regard. It wasn't that she was just too posh to push it was that she was advised.

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It was the best method of the safest method of her giving birth.

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Just a detail becomes Mp. potentially right it up under the heat. Administration becomes a Minister State secret state for educate and science.

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It was then that she gained me sobri Kate of Milk Snatcher, Margaret Thatcher, milk snatcher.

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The opposition forces used to chant because she she took away fee milk from the over 11.

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I think it was something which he didn't ever quite get over, although she said she was simply put into into into action.

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The policy had already been prepared. She was simply implementing what what the Civil Service was already prepared for her.

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Well becomes leader in 75 after heates defeat in the symptoms for election.

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And it's as much dissatisfaction with him as as her popularity at that point that gives her the the promotion to leader.

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It's not that she's welcomed and embraced in that sense.

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It's simply there isn't anybody else around at the time is there?

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And she went with that for long will She that that's a sort of thinking in the Conservative party in 75.

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But once she was in, she was such a dumb personality that she made it very difficult for others to challenge her.

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So her forceful character came through now it's often said about her that she had no sense of humor, and that, and that it's a part of her doerness and her a deep sense of resolution, and purpose.

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And there may be something in that. I did meet her briefly.

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And she seemed very charming and very easy to amuse.

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I thought, anyway, that's that's got to not go down that road, and it becomes a very powerful force within the party.

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I to what you're still party lead it's what you became Prime Minister.

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She toured parts of Europe, and she knew something about the Soviet Union already.

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And she made a famous What? What became an infamous speech in 1978

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When she attacked Soviet Communism and said that they tant the policy that the West had been following really since the days of Khrushchev and Kennedy that Dayton was dangerous because the Soviet Union was still

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a force for evil in the world, and it's at that point that the Red Star, the newspaper in the Soviet Union, gave her the the title, The and Lady, which was meant to be very damaging to her But in fact as

00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:45.000
her adviser, said: Market, This is a marvelous moment for you to embrace that title because it can define you.

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It can define your policies. if I can show you a little clip of this.

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Only a few seconds of it, just to give you the flavor of her arrival.

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Yeah, I hope this will come alive Zoom van from

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I stand before you tonight in my red star shift on evening down

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Face softly made up on my hair. gently wave the Iron Lady of the Western world.

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Well that's just a little clip whoops.

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I need to switch that off. Excuse me the principles of Dayton, and said that we were ignoring the danger.

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Sorry about that. that's a clip by the way if you wish to follow.

00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:13.000
Leave this up There's a very good Youtube conversation between Charles Moore, the great biographer, and an interlocutor.

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From the United States and and it's about 50 min, but it does touch on some very interesting aspects of her career as seen by her.

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But her chief biographer. so I would recommend that.

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But let me go back to slides we were looking at to take it through.

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Yes, the Iron Lady notion she becomes Prime Minister.

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After her first election victory and she has 4 election victories. i'll come to those in a moment which is in itself extraordinary isn't.

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It. it's a woman leading a party leading a government and winning 4 elections in a row. dwell upon that that is truly remarkable.

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Truly remarkable. However, in the first few years of the administration, 79, through to 82.

00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:20.000
She didn't do very well in the popularity stakes and the opinion polls show that she was slipping dangerously near the point where there might be a reaction within her party against her, or indeed, that she might lose the Prime

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ministerial office. However, she was saved. Can I put it that way by by the Falklands event?

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I'll come to that again as we go through a little bit later.

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She was very lucky in the circumstances that came her way, and very lucky in those who opposed her up again.

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I'll come to that in a moment but she has luck on her side, and remember what Napoleon said about generals.

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I don't want good generals I want lucky ones and That's a very powerful notion, isn't it.

00:16:50.000 --> 00:17:05.000
You do need to be fortunate to be lucky in public life to survive because you can never control. the circumstances are going to come along as Howard Wilson said, A week in politics is a long time, and so to survive

00:17:05.000 --> 00:17:10.000
as she did. She needed luck, which she got to use the Laps Got a ride the luck which she did mind the strike.

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I'll come to that. one of the great formative events in her, in her administration nearly wiped out in 1994 ra bombing of the grand hotel in Brighton.

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I mean 5 people died in it. She was She avoided injury, even although she was close to the explosion.

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She wins a second election. Riding on the popularity she gained from the Falklands in 83 Windsor, 30 election in 87.

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And then in 90, is brought down by what she called i've used her word that the treachery of her colleagues, so she resigned as party leader and

00:17:53.000 --> 00:17:59.000
Prime Minister retires to the House of Lords, becomes Lady Thatcher of Casteven.

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And has a 20 year rather dull existence by her own, a definition that she was a woman of action.

00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:14.000
She said she she wasn't happy, unless she was doing things so she did decline quite markedly.

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Once she was out of politics. and some said her

00:18:19.000 --> 00:18:24.000
She becomes quite unworld mentally it doesn't check towards the end.

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Parkinson's that possibly but whatever the cause Some observer, some of her colleagues said it was in part a consequence of her feeling of hopelessness, or or pointlessness after she left politics that

00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:53.000
she. But what made her what she was was action, the actions as she got, and there was no follow up. That can be no fall up, can there? to be Prime Minister in terms of excitement and an action that he was involved in so

00:18:53.000 --> 00:19:05.000
aside a sad ending I said any well there's some applauded. If our opponents applauded again, we might come to that if if time permits.

00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:09.000
I think this is worth mentioning I don't if you know Cracker Poland.

00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:23.000
If You've ever been there, do go in love lovely city of this city, and in the cathedral there slender cathedral, there is a side chapel dedicated to Margaret Thatcher and it says in

00:19:23.000 --> 00:19:33.000
Polish bacon of liberty. Now imagine if you were trade unionist in written, you would find that deeply ironic.

00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:47.000
But what he refers to, of course, was her support. The East European resistance to the Soviet Union, which begins to take flower from *, 88 on before the Soviet Union actually collapses in 91 and we

00:19:47.000 --> 00:19:57.000
can certain quite legitimately, that she and her friend Lonnie Reagan, in part responsible for that collapse in 91.

00:19:57.000 --> 00:20:02.000
The collapse of the Soviet Union again. an unthinkable event a few years before it happened.

00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:08.000
You couldn't think this way, monolith the soviet Union could collapse but it did.

00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:18.000
And why collapsed? Of course we could go to great detail. but certainly we we can say, I think, with justice that she played her part in the cold war being won by the West.

00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:27.000
If that's how we interpret that period so along with Ronnie Reagan staunch anti-communist, and helps bring about the collapse.

00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:37.000
The Soviet Union. so it's a major aspect of her career, obviously, how we actually measure it in terms of detail, of course, is another matter.

00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:52.000
But her approach to politics, international politics, the well, essentially one again, of strong opinions, as with her domestic policies, because she believed that you got nowhere through weakness, you had to be committed, and you had to express your commitment powerfully and

00:20:52.000 --> 00:21:10.000
people would then respect you you can't do it by soft, gentle means, and I think that might come from the realization that she was in a very tough man's world, and she had to be tough, assault in order to survive so I

00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:15.000
think there's obviously a strong connection between a personal position and Her international one.

00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:21.000
The one carries over into the other. Here it just recorded the 4 election victories that she has.

00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:31.000
I went delay on them, but you can see at a glance that she wins in 97 in 83, 87.

00:21:31.000 --> 00:21:40.000
Now she's not in office of course. in 92, but it's still a conservative victory under John Major, which you can put down to her legacy.

00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:44.000
So you could claim that she is one for election in a row.

00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:50.000
An extraordinary success. Extraordinary success! I mentioned that she was fortunate in her enemies.

00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:57.000
And i've just listed there the one that we can say she overcame during her time in office.

00:21:57.000 --> 00:22:07.000
Harry Wilson, Kim Callahan, Michael Foot, Neil Kinnock, General Galgieri, in Argentina, after Scargill, the Ira, and the Soviet Union.

00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:11.000
Not a bad bag, that, is it? Not a bad bad

00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:16.000
The trouble of we're mentioning the fortune that she has at her luck.

00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:20.000
One of her great bits of luck was the labor party structure. At that point.

00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:25.000
It was led. I heard Wilson, who was declining force by the time.

00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:28.000
She meets him as an as an opponent.

00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:38.000
Jim can, of course, inherits that terrible business of the decline of the economy that the crisis which which he had to deal with, and and couldn't because it was so profound.

00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:55.000
And so that is 2 leaders at the point became leader herself, really couldn't offer her much in in by way of equal opposition, and Michael Foot, brilliant writer, really essays but not a good public figure.

00:22:55.000 --> 00:23:02.000
A powerful orator, but but couldn't put his void he couldn't put his ideas across to the electorate in a successful way, could he?

00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:09.000
And of course he hits the party to unilaterally at a time when that was was not a good move.

00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:21.000
Certainly not in terms of the overall electorate. So those I just mentioned, those 4 Wilson Calhoun Foot, and then Neil Kinnick, who takes over in 83, and he was never able to match Margaret

00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:28.000
Thatcher in terms of delivery of ideas, and a powerful speaker in his way.

00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:35.000
But he did acknowledge subsequently that she was a very hard opponent to deal with, and he was never quite sure what to make of her.

00:23:35.000 --> 00:23:40.000
As a woman did he attack her in a way that might be thought to be sexist.

00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:49.000
For example, it's careful not to do that but it meant they had to hold back in his challenge to her very often galchieri.

00:23:49.000 --> 00:24:01.000
Obviously that the leader of the hunter in Argentina, that she takes on in the Falkland War in 82 drunk on a daily basis.

00:24:01.000 --> 00:24:05.000
We now know Galgia. He was never sober.

00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:09.000
One way of getting through life, I suppose. but he she she!

00:24:09.000 --> 00:24:17.000
She wins, she wins he takes her on in a sense, and he loses scar goes. similarly.

00:24:17.000 --> 00:24:20.000
Now Arthur Scarg was a fascinating character.

00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:28.000
He defeated Edward Teeth. I think we can say that on 2 occasions during Heath's administration lead leading the miners strike.

00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:38.000
He tries it under Margaret thatcher and she digs in, and that's that very grim battle over in the orgreave.

00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:51.000
And the the demonstrations, and the strike and it's a close-run. thing and she worried at 1 point in during the strike that scarlet might, in fact, of popular support to push it in his favor.

00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:55.000
But he never did. he never did again. We can touch on that in a moment.

00:24:55.000 --> 00:25:06.000
The Ahra tried to blower up to the 84 didn't succeed and she took a very hard line with the Ira as well.

00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:17.000
She wasn't against discussion and negotiation that she always said you can't negotiate with people who are concerned to be collaborative and violent and brutal they've got to come down before I can

00:25:17.000 --> 00:25:22.000
debate with them and hit tough line now some say didn't work.

00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:35.000
Some say that she made the position worse and that's a matter of opinion, I think; but the Ira knew where they were with so much he wasn't going to give ground to them, and the violence and the terrorism they were concerned with would not

00:25:35.000 --> 00:25:43.000
shift her fascinating period, of course, in in in Anglo-irish relations in and the Soviet Union.

00:25:43.000 --> 00:25:48.000
We mentioned in that her hard line, the iron lady notion.

00:25:48.000 --> 00:26:05.000
She believed the Soviet Union was a force for evil in the world, but she had sufficient understanding of individuals to recognize that that in Gorbachev, who emerges as a man of dignity, and integrity, and she said

00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:17.000
you's a man I can trust I mean I can work with, although she detested the background from which it came. she was very willing to treat with him on equal terms, and he was he was very impressed with her.

00:26:17.000 --> 00:26:32.000
I mean when they first met at checkers they arranged for an hour's discussion, and it went on for nearly 6 h, because, although they argued very strongly against each other, a developing mutual respect came through what you

00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:41.000
couldn't see stalin or khrushchev or lenin ever being in that position. that's again a fascinating development within the Soviet Union.

00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:47.000
But it adds to her have esteem as a strong public figure.

00:26:47.000 --> 00:26:53.000
It's just a picture of the blow the explosion there's a picture figure there, and somebody said me.

00:26:53.000 --> 00:26:58.000
Oh, that's Margaret thatcher I don't think it is. I can't prove it's not

00:26:58.000 --> 00:27:09.000
It would be too, too lucky. wouldn't it there just have captured her there. But that figure it's a lady isn't it? so it could be her but I don't I think the lux run out at that point I don't think it

00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:12.000
is a lot for the for dogs, for I mean. but but you can see how near she was.

00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:16.000
I think this is her apartment that she was in. how near it was.

00:27:16.000 --> 00:27:32.000
Keep coming to a fatal end, cause he added to her standing in the party, she became a great heroic figure, because the very next day she carried on with the conference, saying, We we do not give into terrorism, which was very impressive

00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:42.000
very press, whatever your politics, you could but be impressed by this woman doing a boat a seer like or a creative, is with the first like defiance of the enemy.

00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:47.000
Cartoon here, which I thought was amusing, and said something quite profound.

00:27:47.000 --> 00:27:52.000
If you want something said, ask a man if you want something done, ask a woman.

00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:57.000
And that was said A cartoon relates to a death obviously in 2 13.

00:27:57.000 --> 00:28:01.000
It makes a nice point doesn't it another one which makes a good point.

00:28:01.000 --> 00:28:12.000
I think again, from that period. one of the conservative loyalists looking up to heaven to where she's gone, and you've got to train newness looking down wrong direction.

00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:16.000
So that's good good expression of the division of opinion over Margaret Thatcher.

00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:25.000
You either loved her or hated her, admired her, or heated very hard to feel indifferent about it pretty hard, and people still divide over it, don't they?

00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:33.000
Fascinating me his perhaps the most famous word she ever uttered in terms of her political viewpoint.

00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:51.000
I'm afraid I can't remove that easily but it says there's no such thing as society, and that became albatross around her neck, because the Guardian picked up that statement that she made in 87, and said

00:28:51.000 --> 00:29:07.000
Oh, that defines her, defines her lack of feeling for for people that no thing of society but what they didn't stress. Of course, much, she adds to it is no government can do anything except through people and people must look to themselves

00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:12.000
it's an appeal for individual responsibility isn't It it's not a rejection of welfare as such.

00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:26.000
It's a way of saying that people must be accountable because their true character, the true worth comes out in their acceptance, and they're they're dealing with the condition they're in which of course offended others who said, no

00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:30.000
she was being short-sighted, and she was being uncaring.

00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:34.000
And then this is last sentence which people are attacked over.

00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:40.000
People have got the entitlements too much in mind without the obligations, and then her line.

00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:50.000
There's no such thing as entitlement and there's someone as first met an obligation was said to define her policy.

00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:58.000
Her attitude here's the picture I mentioned I wanted to put on the front of my book, and they said no it's too triumphal.

00:29:58.000 --> 00:30:13.000
So, but I I climbed down that's her looking at her sternest, and that's her her declining period as a peer of the realm in the House of Lords, which he didn't really enjoy very much she I

00:30:13.000 --> 00:30:17.000
think she made one of 2 contributions but it wasn't her Metia.

00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:22.000
It wasn't wasn't her natural region for action house of Lords.

00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:26.000
Yeah, Well, let me quickly run through. I think some key factors in her.

00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:33.000
Approach to politics a conviction politician. She believed in what she did.

00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:43.000
She wasn't she wasn't moved by circumstance beyond the need to meet that circumstance in relation to a basic principles.

00:30:43.000 --> 00:30:46.000
She didn't bend with the wind I think we could put it that way.

00:30:46.000 --> 00:30:58.000
That that defines now some say it's a strength some say no. it's a weakness, she's 2 committed that can can often lead to hardness, and a lack of understanding.

00:30:58.000 --> 00:31:01.000
So you can. I argue either way, influence it on her.

00:31:01.000 --> 00:31:06.000
Keith, Joseph, and the new rights is it sometimes called belief in the free market?

00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:11.000
Van Hiak could famous Austrian.

00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:24.000
Economist of this period. he he pressed the idea of the free market in opposition to government and activity, because most of the nation post 45 adopted State centralized policies didn't.

00:31:24.000 --> 00:31:36.000
They? No, the Keith Joseph, as disciple of on hike, said No, it the way forward is free enterprise, an open market, and Milton Friedman not the interesting character there.

00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:43.000
He believed, that the great enemy Oh, okay, freedom, true liberty politically was inflation.

00:31:43.000 --> 00:31:47.000
Therefore, Government, who were responsible for inflation. That was his argument.

00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:59.000
That was his thesis government spending must be controlled. so that inflation is controlled and that hit those ideas market Thatcher picks up on just on a personal detail. there. Gordon Reese was her Guru and

00:31:59.000 --> 00:32:05.000
he's the man who suggested that she modify her voice and modify her appearance.

00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:11.000
Give her a softer look. He got hair dresses to style her hair differently, and he taught her how to drop lower.

00:32:11.000 --> 00:32:24.000
Her voice in such a way it wasn't shrill Now the female voice, as you know, is naturally higher pitch than most male voices and actresses are taught in drama. school.

00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:30.000
To bring down the voice. Bring it down a register if you can because it's more powerful, more effective.

00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:45.000
If you go, hi you you can become true and she she she sat and and and studied under, and recent that regard and and did device exercises, so her later voice, which is much modified from her earlier tones.

00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:51.000
Is interesting, and that that's due to gordon Reese interesting, interesting man.

00:32:51.000 --> 00:33:00.000
And influence is there her aims tried to sum up here a key approach the aims to end what she called the postwar consensus.

00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:13.000
She believed that the common acceptance by both major parties, conservatives, and labor of common policies, particularly in regard to economics, was damaging to British interests.

00:33:13.000 --> 00:33:15.000
The idea of Keynesianism. You know Knesianism.

00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:23.000
The notion that is the i'm in a healthy economy.

00:33:23.000 --> 00:33:32.000
John made our claims, wrote to the 1,900 thirtys during the depression, and is aim was to try and find an answer to economic depression, and he found the answer.

00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:37.000
He put it forward in that in terms of demand. the demand creates jobs that can.

00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:54.000
Creativity creates productivity and everybody benefits, and therefore, if demand drops off and you have recession, have to do is artificially to stimulate economy by creating jobs by by initiatives that that soak up the

00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:59.000
unemployed. For example. at most all the parties accepted Kingsanism as a basic policy.

00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:13.000
Unemployment was a great enemy, and you cured unemployment, or you limited to it by Keynesian methods that she found restrictive and damaging, and her interpretation Post-war Britain was that change inism

00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:17.000
had been too powerful in its influence, and it held Britain back.

00:34:17.000 --> 00:34:28.000
So her aim is to reverse Kenzianism, to cut government, spending to cut taxes along with that to restrict bureaucracy.

00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:31.000
Because if you cut government activity, you can cut bureaucracy.

00:34:31.000 --> 00:34:38.000
And this famous phrase of hers to take government off the backs of the people, so that's a summary of her aims.

00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:42.000
But in simplified form. How how would you go about that monitorism?

00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:50.000
Money control. Pick this up for Milton Friedman. Of course, the idea governments on the are the source of inflation, because they spend heavily.

00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:56.000
So if you can cut back on government expenditure, you can reduce inflation.

00:34:56.000 --> 00:35:02.000
You can cut inflation. A second factor. Second method, Trade Union Reform.

00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:13.000
Her interpretation of ted heed's time was he'd been too weak in the face of Union pressure, and therefore so get written back on an even keel.

00:35:13.000 --> 00:35:19.000
The train unions must be brought into line, so they serve the community rather than dominating it.

00:35:19.000 --> 00:35:22.000
And then we add that she was never anti-trade union in.

00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:28.000
She claimed she believed in bargaining. You believed in the free market in that video, and you need to trade unions.

00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:36.000
What she objected to was the dominance of leaders of trade unions who didn't consult members, but simply followed a political agenda.

00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:44.000
That's why she said, the trade unions need reform. they need control in because they're not democratic in their function.

00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:49.000
Again. You could respond to that as a trade reading this, but that was her line also believed in accountability.

00:35:49.000 --> 00:35:54.000
Margaret Thatcher that local government should account to the people.

00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:59.000
It should be responsible to the people, and therefore it should be reformed to make it much more accountable.

00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:02.000
It ties in with her notion of personal responsibility.

00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:14.000
People must be responsible for themselves, and therefore government at the local government which are responsible for handling public money must account for that money, and must account for the activities on the broader basis to the people.

00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:34.000
They meant to serve so strong. and she does follow that idea of reforming at local level, which, of course, caused great consternation and bitter response at local level, by many, at many councils and labor council of course back form really strong groups against

00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:39.000
saturism, as they called it. short term consequences for policies.

00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:46.000
Recession, rising unemployment, and social unrest.

00:36:46.000 --> 00:36:52.000
Yes, that there are disturbing scenes in the early eighties, riots in in some of the cities.

00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:56.000
Bristol, London. of course nottingham loom large there.

00:36:56.000 --> 00:37:02.000
So those what I say in shorthand were the consequences of her immediate policy.

00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:16.000
In the early eighties monitorism, and there are other reforms that went with it, and that the of the freeing of the market her oppositions, political opposition, and trade.

00:37:16.000 --> 00:37:20.000
You know this. This was a reason for for recession that she was.

00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:28.000
She was distorting things by her hard line Well, let's come to one of the those policies I mentioned.

00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:39.000
Saw her popularity dip in the in the early eightys, but pick up very, very rapidly after her great success over the Falklands again.

00:37:39.000 --> 00:37:50.000
Not time to go to the details here, but she stood out again bowed a seal like against the galaxy area threat to take over the fortune's, and it's said by those who around at the time.

00:37:50.000 --> 00:38:02.000
That she was so individual in what she did she wouldn't listen to those who doubted the possibility of winning, and when she got the first sea Lord!

00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:06.000
On her side. she said. that's it if he says we can do this.

00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:11.000
We can. So the the launching, you know of that campaign?

00:38:11.000 --> 00:38:18.000
That that that you know, part naval and part are landed.

00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:29.000
Campaign in the Falklands, which proves highly successful again. we'd love to go into detail if we can't but she wins, and she wins because she is committed to the idea we have to win she said there's

00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:36.000
no alternative to defeating Galieri. Because if we lose on this one, what else could we preserve of British values?

00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:43.000
If we give up on protecting the falcon islanders, 98% of whom wish to stay under the British flag.

00:38:43.000 --> 00:38:50.000
If we don't honor that we're not prepared to fight for that we might as well give up huge risk.

00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:56.000
She took, Of course, that had failed if that's campaign had failed.

00:38:56.000 --> 00:39:01.000
She would be lost. she could have carried on she'd committed herself to victory.

00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:08.000
There again. I won't go into the details of how the campaign was was run, and people did object to some of her moves.

00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:15.000
That would be thinking of the belgrano but She comes out of it, hugely popular, particularly among the service class element.

00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:23.000
I'm i'm being in portsmouth at the time when the fleet came back and the rejoicing, and the chairs for her extraordinary extraordinary.

00:39:23.000 --> 00:39:38.000
Now you might say that's an isolated area but I think the general public picked up that mood. and she was seen as oh, really figured that it's that a defeated fascism in the object canyon full of

00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:45.000
it. Well, let's press on the outcome as I say on the political outcomes a key one upsurge in her popularity.

00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:59.000
Wrong for the opposition. Yes, Michael foot and then neil connects. didn't really know how to handle this They couldn't attack her too strongly, because that would appear to be labor not supporting the lads out there fighting big

00:39:59.000 --> 00:40:03.000
problem for for labor. How did they handle the forbidden question?

00:40:03.000 --> 00:40:06.000
And they were caught out on it really, and they lost popularity.

00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:11.000
And she gained from this again part of her her luck in in that regard.

00:40:11.000 --> 00:40:16.000
Let's come to the the other very biggest suit in her time.

00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:23.000
The minus strike call was in decline. British cold could not be mind at a profit.

00:40:23.000 --> 00:40:26.000
So who it was was in town would have to accept.

00:40:26.000 --> 00:40:29.000
The mining was in decline, could it be sustained?

00:40:29.000 --> 00:40:34.000
But through subsidy. that was a big question and of course the social issue came up there.

00:40:34.000 --> 00:40:44.000
If you if if you allow minds to close mind is a phone out of jobs, and they're not many workers, they're part of a community that depends upon the mind.

00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:51.000
The pit, and the mind was central to saying, the South Wales area parts of the northeast parts of Scotland.

00:40:51.000 --> 00:40:59.000
If the minds closed, the community died and it's argued that she never quite grasped that.

00:40:59.000 --> 00:41:04.000
So when she pushed forward for logic. But minds are losing money.

00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:09.000
Therefore you allow them to close because it suicide the economic to leave them open.

00:41:09.000 --> 00:41:23.000
She was saying in effect those victims i've got to face the consequences of an economic decision, and that she led her to being accused of being uncaring the idea that she didn't really care enough about people.

00:41:23.000 --> 00:41:35.000
She cared too much about ideas, and about economics not about community. That's one of the charges that you still here, of course, by by those who don't accept her record the there to cartoon.

00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:41.000
Which I think is amusing, but make again makes a very powerful point.

00:41:41.000 --> 00:41:49.000
So do tell me, do you keep all of these magnificent 5 men with calls, anyway, and there's it even sorry about this.

00:41:49.000 --> 00:41:58.000
But it should say under there, Why, is this pit still open that's rather good isn't it she's going down into the debts.

00:41:58.000 --> 00:42:04.000
And she's she's worried that it's a pit not been closed.

00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:19.000
Very bitter that, but he makes his point doesn't it and hit here aspects of it closure the minds would distrust whole communities, and then the mining dispute was led by 2 very hard men hard

00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:24.000
line me after Scargill, a committed Marxist who actually took money from the Soviet Union.

00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:30.000
This time, and from Libya we now know face by Ian Mcgregor, a Canadian.

00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:35.000
But with a record of being very unfinching and very unsentimental.

00:42:35.000 --> 00:42:43.000
If I think didn't work close it if a plant doesn't work, close it, and he took that line over the mining industry in Britain.

00:42:43.000 --> 00:42:55.000
Mine closure was, was his his priority, and of course you could see why the 2 met, and of course the Government backed Mcgregor not openly.

00:42:55.000 --> 00:43:03.000
The Government claimed to be Neutral in this but of course it wasn't, and what Margaret thatcher had done she'd learn from a Ted.

00:43:03.000 --> 00:43:15.000
He's mistakes. she had ordered the stockpiling of coal. when she learned that a strike was looming, so when Scarle called out the miners in 84. the government had prepared the way.

00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:19.000
There were enough stocks to keep fuel supplies.

00:43:19.000 --> 00:43:24.000
I of course. Also that strike never became a full strike in terms of all the miners.

00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:34.000
A. at its strongest. It was 2 thirds of the miners, and it was only half within 8 or 9 months of the strike, and he never gone backing through a poll.

00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:40.000
He never pulled his members, and and she was able to say he's not followed democratic path.

00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:44.000
He's he's taken a decision at the top of the Nu M.

00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:48.000
But it's he has no he has no remit from the miners themselves.

00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:53.000
There's no mandate from them because he's not tested their view on that.

00:43:53.000 --> 00:44:01.000
And that was his weakness. not not being prepared to call a ballot on the strike.

00:44:01.000 --> 00:44:06.000
Well, after that first failure we can save her policy down to 82, 83.

00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:19.000
We then have a second stage. Most scholars most books talk about this, where you turns to what's called supply side economics, and I've just listed there the key elements of it, reducing taxation to increase incentives

00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:24.000
encouraging competition to lower prices, limiting the powers of the trade unions.

00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:35.000
So they couldn't block productivity, and then cutting what wasteful welfare payments This is the one that got her charge with being uncaring that she said.

00:44:35.000 --> 00:44:43.000
Dependency deprives people of their sense of of self worth and the first rule of government shouldn't be to bail up people.

00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:52.000
Haven't got jobs. It should be to provide them with jobs to give them some sense of worth back in a community of work.

00:44:52.000 --> 00:45:03.000
That's her life. but as you can see could be easily interpreted as being anti welfare, which he claims she never was, but he wanted welfare properly adjusted. probably allocated.

00:45:03.000 --> 00:45:07.000
So it served the interest of the nation, and not just all particular groups.

00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:12.000
Deregulation. Another aspect of a policy i've just listed there again.

00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:18.000
The big changes in finance, transport, education, hospitals, housing, local government.

00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:26.000
They are all brought under this notion of we don't need organization.

00:45:26.000 --> 00:45:35.000
And Reg. If you can break down the degree of red tape, for example, you can get much more efficient public services.

00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:43.000
That's her notion. So all through her line is my policies aim to serve the public.

00:45:43.000 --> 00:45:49.000
Now, of course, that was challenged by those who found it to be not a balanced approach, but that's her line.

00:45:49.000 --> 00:45:56.000
So all these deregulatory measures are meant to make the services more accountable to the people.

00:45:56.000 --> 00:46:10.000
They're meant to serve as in education for example as in housing, and this idea of Council House tenants being allowed to buy their property, which would add to this number of a property owning democracy, which had been the great conservative

00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:16.000
principle, even before her time privatization not the big isn't it.

00:46:16.000 --> 00:46:22.000
And then we've listed some of the 50 entries is sold off, enjoying her time.

00:46:22.000 --> 00:46:24.000
British airways, pretty steel British cold cable, and miles.

00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:29.000
But what what a what a challenge of of key areas they are aren't they?

00:46:29.000 --> 00:46:35.000
And there's a revenue derived from privatization building up over her.

00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:42.000
He is very impressive that isn't in terms surely of amount running into the billions in the end.

00:46:42.000 --> 00:46:56.000
These are figures that people use, of course, in terms of attacking the policies because they claim policies led to Al employment, and the number of industrial workers declined significantly.

00:46:56.000 --> 00:47:07.000
In those 20 years, however, that's entirely a result of political policy. Margaret, that's policies There was a natural decline in Britain as an industrial power.

00:47:07.000 --> 00:47:17.000
Britain was moving from an industrial base to a service economy, and so that would have happened regardless of the governments in power at any particular time.

00:47:17.000 --> 00:47:25.000
It was a process it's attached of course to the industrial sorry to the to the international setting as well.

00:47:25.000 --> 00:47:33.000
Companies weren't buying from britain in the way they had previously, and that was a reality that had to be you responded to.

00:47:33.000 --> 00:47:40.000
So those figures don't suggest unemployment but they do indicate the shift in the industrial shape of Britain.

00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:46.000
The move away from heavy industry. Now this is remarkable.

00:47:46.000 --> 00:47:50.000
Comparison of Gdp rates, which is the only way you can measure.

00:47:50.000 --> 00:47:59.000
Really an economy through Gdp measurement and you'll see there that Britain does rather well in the thatcher years compared with Europe.

00:47:59.000 --> 00:48:09.000
Which shouldn't have been if you think joining Europe would be the way ahead, because it would free Britain to become more prosperous.

00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:17.000
In fact, it no. Europe declines at a time in Britain in terms of Gdp output increases.

00:48:17.000 --> 00:48:24.000
These are the number of firms created in her time, or all other developing her time.

00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:35.000
And the number of self-employed and you'll see that very significantly it's a self-employed that she was very keen to help because she believed the self employed who didn't depend on

00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:40.000
stay handouts or state subsidies, that they were the real source of economic strength.

00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:54.000
So those figures are interesting. They follow in part, anyway, from her emphasis upon self-employment, self-employed activity as being one of the great sources of rich recovery.

00:48:54.000 --> 00:49:02.000
This might strike you as odd because you wouldn't think it was gonna happen real real wages in her time.

00:49:02.000 --> 00:49:08.000
France, West Germany, U.S.A.: very low. increase even a minus figure. U.S.A.

00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:21.000
But if in Britain real wages, that's that's capacity to buy real wage earnings that can be realized in in purchase or goods, real wages, not not just a figure itself, but they increase by 26

00:49:21.000 --> 00:49:32.000
percent. No small thing that is it. Inflation rate 20 over 20% in her early years, and it's dropped by the middle years to to in half around there.

00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:37.000
And then this great principle of hers of a shareholding society.

00:49:37.000 --> 00:49:42.000
But each people holding shares increased by 25%.

00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:49.000
Over. a 1 million people bought their council houses again that's controversial because some said it took council housing out of the reach of those who would rent it.

00:49:49.000 --> 00:49:55.000
But people have got to live somewhere, she said so i'm not I'm, not I'm not decreasing the availability of property.

00:49:55.000 --> 00:50:00.000
I'm just giving freedom. People who are already in that property to purchase

00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:11.000
Those are the unemployment figures. under her for 1983 to 90, and you'll see how grim they are. By the middle years 3 and a half are approaching 3 and a half 1 million.

00:50:11.000 --> 00:50:22.000
They dip significantly in her later years, but that those middle years were very troubled times, and she was accused of deliberately creating unemployment.

00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:31.000
These are figures showing the tax rates that develop under her.

00:50:31.000 --> 00:50:35.000
One of her promises while she would cut tax on, did she?

00:50:35.000 --> 00:50:51.000
Well, yes, but you would say marginally in 79, a single person's total tax bill was 45 in 1990; that if her term is down to nearly 43, and married with 2 children the

00:50:51.000 --> 00:50:54.000
tax rates. There they dropped again. So there is a marginal shift.

00:50:54.000 --> 00:50:58.000
So in a sense she kept the promise it's not a huge sweeping change.

00:50:58.000 --> 00:51:04.000
But it's going in the right direction. one might say her collapse, of course, is over.

00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:18.000
2 major features of her time, the poll tax, which she very badly handled in 89, 90, and then her approach to Europe which upset her own party colleagues picked those at the top.

00:51:18.000 --> 00:51:24.000
A nice like plot it, if we can use that word against her and bring her down over poll tax over Europe.

00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:38.000
Some say she's already passed her best by then she'd been in office for too long, and therefore she'd run out of that sense of political judgment that had seen her through earlier, and that is an interesting point so when it.

00:51:38.000 --> 00:51:47.000
Comes to the challenge to her. Michael Hazelton, who was strongly backed by many in the bookies back back, Tim, would you believe

00:51:47.000 --> 00:52:02.000
But when it came to the vote a cheat she wins but she doesn't win by a big enough majority to prevent a second, a a valid being, called, and that was enough for her to say i'm not prepared to stand for second

00:52:02.000 --> 00:52:07.000
ballot if I can't win on the first it shows the direction of the party, and she announced her withdrawal.

00:52:07.000 --> 00:52:15.000
Just to finish the story there. Little time think he could now breeze in was then opposed by John.

00:52:15.000 --> 00:52:21.000
Major and Douglas heard and they'd end Major defeated him, and Hazel.

00:52:21.000 --> 00:52:23.000
I never forgave Margaret Thatcher or nature.

00:52:23.000 --> 00:52:31.000
So he and Heath have this long sunk again in the way they were.

00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:40.000
Well, let me end on this run on about. take a couple of minutes.

00:52:40.000 --> 00:52:45.000
The beta. With thatrism the case for supportors would push this point.

00:52:45.000 --> 00:53:02.000
Made Britain face economic reality, encourage initiative, created conditions of growth, creating new jobs, advance popular capitalism, and develops the notion of accountability against that opponents would say writers for still emphasize these points.

00:53:02.000 --> 00:53:09.000
Encourage individuals and agreed, ignored the needs of the vulnerable in society, cause unemployment in particular areas.

00:53:09.000 --> 00:53:13.000
Of course, at her policies, led to recession

00:53:13.000 --> 00:53:20.000
And then i'll end on this I promise these are what i've called the Paradoxes of tattooism.

00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:29.000
Despite her determination to cut Government spending when she went out of office in 1990 public expenditure was at record levels.

00:53:29.000 --> 00:53:42.000
She didn't cut public expenditure overall there were times when it did drop, but overall there's an expansion in in government spending central government was meant to be cut and limited, but in fact, there were more departments doing

00:53:42.000 --> 00:53:52.000
more activity under her by 1990 and to European I haven't time to go into this. it's fascinating theme, and here European, but she takes Britain deep into Europe. anybody else.

00:53:52.000 --> 00:54:05.000
Up to that time 1,986 the single European act, which which commits Britain in a way that she then later regretted such had been bad badly advised. but was her work her acceptance and then this last point

00:54:05.000 --> 00:54:14.000
i've made I don't have the ladies think about this, but feminists still say that she didn't serve feminine interests.

00:54:14.000 --> 00:54:23.000
And have comment here. she wished to promote she didn't wish to promote women merely because they were women. that would be to patronize them.

00:54:23.000 --> 00:54:33.000
And you can argue for and against that my view and i'll close on this is that looking at it from an objective coupon as I can.

00:54:33.000 --> 00:54:41.000
What she did proved what women could do at that highest level of political action, and nothing called close on that point.

00:54:41.000 --> 00:54:46.000
So I drive around a bit. But there we are. Okay. Can I stop the share there?

00:54:46.000 --> 00:54:53.000
Yes, thank you, Michael. thanks very much for that, and I think we shall just dive straight into some questions.

00:54:53.000 --> 00:54:58.000
Michael no, let me just scroll back up to the top.

00:54:58.000 --> 00:55:07.000
No! this is a question from sorry focus. This is taking a minute.

00:55:07.000 --> 00:55:17.000
At that time when she saw it first broke through. She was the only woman so presumably men help to get there.

00:55:17.000 --> 00:55:20.000
What would you? What would you say to that? That was from Lisa?

00:55:20.000 --> 00:55:26.000
Well, they did not, with the intention of her being there as long as she was she was a stop gap.

00:55:26.000 --> 00:55:30.000
She was she filled in caretak, if you like, until they found some of it.

00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:42.000
But she then dominates the men but I don't think they were on her side to begin with and the tory party wasn't Pro-market Thatcher in that sense, until she proved her worth as a leader

00:55:42.000 --> 00:55:53.000
as a Prime Minister, but but as a party leader. it's because there was nobody they could put up against her in 75, and they were so upset with what heath the the done.

00:55:53.000 --> 00:55:58.000
His failures that anybody would do in the sense rather than Heath.

00:55:58.000 --> 00:56:06.000
And I think they were lulled into thinking Well, she'll do as a stop gap a fill in. But yes, you're right in the sense that it was man who chose her.

00:56:06.000 --> 00:56:12.000
But I don't think they chose her with the motive of of promoting her in the way that she did rise.

00:56:12.000 --> 00:56:26.000
Okay, interesting, right? Let me find the next question. yes, this is about the the I re. when you were talking about , and standing standing up to the ie.

00:56:26.000 --> 00:56:30.000
This is from Patrick. Did she really beat the Ira?

00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:38.000
History, and the forward trained of irish unification which you're starting to do some of that coming through.

00:56:38.000 --> 00:56:40.000
Yeah, good question. I wouldn't put it as a as victory and defeat.

00:56:40.000 --> 00:56:43.000
No, that would be too strong, because obviously the problem goes on and goes on.

00:56:43.000 --> 00:56:57.000
Now. but what I had in mind was that she wouldn't make any concession. There were there were voices in politics the time saying, Look, although the Ira are terrorists, they do have a point politically.

00:56:57.000 --> 00:57:06.000
You've got to recognize that before you can reach any resolution and she refused to accept that line of reasoning on the grounds that it was giving into terrorism.

00:57:06.000 --> 00:57:17.000
So, whatever the Ira case might be in political terms whatever value it had, or credit she wouldn't accept because it was presented in a way that was that was blanched over by terrorism.

00:57:17.000 --> 00:57:28.000
Now that doesn't mean she wins the battle Obviously and they already become even more entrenched in some ways in their bitterness and and dislike of her and and her her government.

00:57:28.000 --> 00:57:33.000
But it by standing up to terrorism I think I put it that way.

00:57:33.000 --> 00:57:44.000
She showed that she wasn't going to be a soft touch and she wasn't going down the road of concessions that some had put to her as the logical way to reach a settlement.

00:57:44.000 --> 00:57:51.000
Somehow in Northern Ireland. in the end. Of course, we do get concessions on both sides.

00:57:51.000 --> 00:57:55.000
Unionists and national side in the end that's wrong long past her time.

00:57:55.000 --> 00:58:03.000
But some would say that her resolution and her resistance to concessions to the Ira was a form of victory in itself.

00:58:03.000 --> 00:58:08.000
But I I take the point, of the question it's not It's not a victory in terms of defeating the Ira as a movement.

00:58:08.000 --> 00:58:15.000
Obviously not but it puts her in a in a position of defending what she regarded as the democratic process against terrorism.

00:58:15.000 --> 00:58:20.000
That was her line, and I think it was popular, too, in in in Britain, anyway.

00:58:20.000 --> 00:58:24.000
Broadly, and did add to a victory in 87.

00:58:24.000 --> 00:58:34.000
For example, Okay, and next question is from Steve, and it relates to another question kind of from Sue as well.

00:58:34.000 --> 00:58:52.000
To what extent was that empowered by the support of most national newspapers? And that leads into a comment from Sue, which was when you were talking about the kind of list of enemies that she had overcome and it could be said

00:58:52.000 --> 00:58:59.000
that she could bet easily have overcome sort of some of those people and the progressive approaches.

00:58:59.000 --> 00:59:06.000
And as people like Kenneth were demonized by the press, so what what could you say about that?

00:59:06.000 --> 00:59:10.000
Well, of course the press is divided isn't it it's not wholly anti or pro thatcher.

00:59:10.000 --> 00:59:13.000
He taught the guardian, I mean the voice of the intellectuals.

00:59:13.000 --> 00:59:23.000
We sometimes think that that maintain a very consistent anti- thatcher line, as with that publication of her statement about no such thing as society.

00:59:23.000 --> 00:59:28.000
The Guardian throughout her time was opposed to her. the Daily Mirror was opposed her.

00:59:28.000 --> 00:59:33.000
Now you take the express and the male. Of course they were Pro thatcher popular papers.

00:59:33.000 --> 00:59:43.000
The times tried to be neutral as it always does but I wouldn't have thought you could argue that she supported strongly by the press.

00:59:43.000 --> 00:59:55.000
I think it's divided. and certainly, some of the most damaging things said about her lack of care, for example are said by by the Guardian and by the mirror and mirror.

00:59:55.000 --> 01:00:08.000
Of course the highly popular paper guardian was limited circles but influential certainly among intellectual classes wasn't the Guardian. So I wouldn't I would totally accept the idea of the press was on her side the popular press

01:00:08.000 --> 01:00:13.000
was. Yes, the tabloid, if you like, and they represent a greater number of readers.

01:00:13.000 --> 01:00:18.000
Of course, the express and the far out way, the Guardian and the Times in terms of readership.

01:00:18.000 --> 01:00:26.000
So that that one could add that to the the the comment but I wouldn't have thought that that there's a press control exercise at any point.

01:00:26.000 --> 01:00:38.000
And she she got some very grim reviews from from the garden, as I say, and the mirror and I pick those 2 as the anti Thatcher papers and the Pro Thatcher.

01:00:38.000 --> 01:00:43.000
Of course, the male and and the express so I I think it's divided.

01:00:43.000 --> 01:00:50.000
I think the press was divided, as was a nation in many ways, with with entrance on Margaret Thatcher side.

01:00:50.000 --> 01:00:55.000
When it came to choices. people did tend to back her as out for elections show.

01:00:55.000 --> 01:01:01.000
That's what an accident is it if you can win 4 elections that must say something about the mood.

01:01:01.000 --> 01:01:05.000
The attitude, the leaning of the electrode

01:01:05.000 --> 01:01:20.000
I I put that that level. Yes, okay, right another question I suppose it's kind of almost related to what we've we've just been talking about there, and a question from Helen she becomes Kenny Everett at the

01:01:20.000 --> 01:01:27.000
Conservative, , conference in 1983 declining , , like Michael Fitch, stick away.

01:01:27.000 --> 01:01:41.000
Let's born Russia not disowning Such didn't she say that it was it was a joke, and that you shouldn't take the joke too seriously.

01:01:41.000 --> 01:01:48.000
He always she wouldn't do what he was suggesting and he didn't really intend her to do that, and she said you must take the joke.

01:01:48.000 --> 01:01:54.000
That was her line, and there's no need for me to denounce it, to go back on it.

01:01:54.000 --> 01:02:02.000
It was the conference that he was providing light entertainment in that particular way of his, and so don't take it any more seriously than he intended.

01:02:02.000 --> 01:02:07.000
No obviously that wouldn't satisfy up that was her comeback Anyway, on it.

01:02:07.000 --> 01:02:13.000
I don't respond because it's not serious and either satisfied with the dance or it doesn't.

01:02:13.000 --> 01:02:16.000
But that that was her line. That was her a reaction to it.

01:02:16.000 --> 01:02:20.000
I do remember it actually. Yes, for the big the big hands yeah didn't it?

01:02:20.000 --> 01:02:28.000
Yes, even even I remember that. And okay The question from Sheila.

01:02:28.000 --> 01:02:33.000
Hmm! very relevant to myself, being from north of the border.

01:02:33.000 --> 01:02:40.000
Particularly was the pull tax her biggest economic policy Mistake?

01:02:40.000 --> 01:02:52.000
Yes, short answer yes back on she didn't understand what She was letting herself in, for she said she was badly advised, and she may well have been because obviously you get your information from advisors.

01:02:52.000 --> 01:02:58.000
That's their job, but her her rush to introduce it she didn't need to.

01:02:58.000 --> 01:03:02.000
There was no necessity to introduce the poll tax When she did, she could awaited

01:03:02.000 --> 01:03:09.000
It wasn't a great demand from the public I mean the rate system didn't need reform.

01:03:09.000 --> 01:03:13.000
There's no doubt about that. but the idea of a poll tax very badly.

01:03:13.000 --> 01:03:21.000
Handled, because it gave the impression that she was punishing people financially as individuals for what

01:03:21.000 --> 01:03:38.000
It seemed that she was picking off people, and and and since finding them, what meant was, people should pay for the services they receive. and therefore, in a local community the right not a good way of doing that, how do you pay for education the

01:03:38.000 --> 01:03:45.000
police the streets to be clean people all benefit from those things, and therefore they should pay their fair share, and so to Poll pull.

01:03:45.000 --> 01:03:52.000
In that sense, people paying for what they receive would seem to be a perfect piece of justice in her mind.

01:03:52.000 --> 01:03:57.000
She didn't understand the politics attached to it and since you mentioned north of the border.

01:03:57.000 --> 01:04:00.000
Why, what is it? Scotland? She picked on to impose it?

01:04:00.000 --> 01:04:11.000
And that led to very strong resistance among Scottish people, which then carries over into into the rest of Britain; and it's seen as an act of arbitrary government on her part.

01:04:11.000 --> 01:04:14.000
So. Yes, the answer is, it was very badly handled.

01:04:14.000 --> 01:04:18.000
She made a very big era there in 89, 90.

01:04:18.000 --> 01:04:23.000
Yes, yeah, right? Okay. Another question. and then, I know that we've got some other questions that have come in.

01:04:23.000 --> 01:04:26.000
But I think what we may have to do because we have run on a bit.

01:04:26.000 --> 01:04:32.000
We'll take the rest of the questions are we and get these answered afterwards, and i'll send them to you.

01:04:32.000 --> 01:04:45.000
My, but we've had a 2 or 3 questions about I guess her legacy and I think it's kind of summed up by a question from Kevin.

01:04:45.000 --> 01:04:53.000
Do you again that some of our convictions led to poor policies that have since been discredited even by the Conservatives.

01:04:53.000 --> 01:04:59.000
So you're talking about pull tax you're talking about conversation. look at what's happening with energy at the moment.

01:04:59.000 --> 01:05:09.000
You know the the railways without replacing all of this. yes, i'd accept those criticisms.

01:05:09.000 --> 01:05:12.000
Yes, they do. They They were reverse, they were, they were.

01:05:12.000 --> 01:05:22.000
You can say Ill judge policies and they're out and they did not succeed in achieving the outcome. She had in mind what I think is important about her legacy.

01:05:22.000 --> 01:05:27.000
There is not so much the economics which we could obviously debate one way or another.

01:05:27.000 --> 01:05:33.000
But I go back to the the response of of the Labor party, who said that she had changed the character of politics.

01:05:33.000 --> 01:05:39.000
She brought into politics a sense of realism that had been lacking prior to her.

01:05:39.000 --> 01:05:45.000
In other words, You had to face the world as it was and you couldn't simply stick to ideals being presented.

01:05:45.000 --> 01:05:47.000
That's what Neil kenneth picked up on very quick.

01:05:47.000 --> 01:05:52.000
Remember, the 8 is famous 85 speech to the Congress, which was booed by many, he said.

01:05:52.000 --> 01:06:04.000
Look the real world is like this comrade and you can't go around putting your ideals of socialism in if they don't work in the times we're in we've got to be realistic and that was almost saying

01:06:04.000 --> 01:06:16.000
That's a piece of pure thatcherism the world is like this: Britain's in this world at this point, and this is what you have to do in order to respond to the crises and the problems that confront britain you can't

01:06:16.000 --> 01:06:24.000
follow an ideological line and be successful. that is, I think, her biggest legacy, and one acknowledged.

01:06:24.000 --> 01:06:35.000
As we said before, by Tony Blair, who became Thatcherite, would suggest in his approach to Government one of her greater successes, someone said, is terrorism.

01:06:35.000 --> 01:06:40.000
I see you put as a as a a degree level question.

01:06:40.000 --> 01:06:49.000
University that Margaret thatcher's greater success. was Blair-ism, which is really a new form of saturism.

01:06:49.000 --> 01:06:54.000
Now that was a notion that was a notion and I think there's so much in that to to dwell upon that.

01:06:54.000 --> 01:06:59.000
She changed the way politicians thought about politics in Britain.

01:06:59.000 --> 01:07:06.000
Now you might think that a reactionary or regressive policy fair enough, but that is what she did.

01:07:06.000 --> 01:07:19.000
And it it couldn't have been done any other way I I would suggest at that point, and I wonder whether any other individual apart from her, could have done it in the way that she did which may come round the fact that she was a

01:07:19.000 --> 01:07:27.000
woman operating in a very difficult world. Every move she made was subject to, because the way she dressed and appeared criticized the whole time.

01:07:27.000 --> 01:07:30.000
Every every time you open a newspaper. There was some comment about her.

01:07:30.000 --> 01:07:35.000
Her dress and style, and she had to live with all that, and she did it.

01:07:35.000 --> 01:07:44.000
I would suggest very successfully. accepting Oh, the other point you made about the failures on economic policies in detail and the reversal of privatization.

01:07:44.000 --> 01:07:51.000
Yes, yes, but it's her impact on politics. I think which is the the biggest aspect of her legacy.

01:07:51.000 --> 01:07:57.000
Okay, right, folks. I think we need to leave it there because we really are out of time.
 

00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:44.000
Okay. So today, what i'm looking at is the origins of football,

00:02:44.000 --> 00:03:04.000
And Scotts want to stop by saying that what are called folk games or mob football been played by the common people throughout the British Isles for more than a 1,000 years, especially on special accounts like Strove tide But

00:03:04.000 --> 00:03:12.000
the gains differed from place to place and it wasn't for always we know it to die.

00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:18.000
There were few, if any, rules, and it was a very violent game.

00:03:18.000 --> 00:03:25.000
Deaths and serious injuries being very common over the centuries.

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The authorities tried everything to ban it. By the early nineteenth century it had virtually died out.

00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:42.000
Now the revival of football kind for the very unexpected source.

00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:55.000
The public schools. By the nineteenth century public schools have become very violent and disorderly places.

00:03:55.000 --> 00:04:10.000
Pupils can' themselves to be superior to The rest of society, including being superior to their middle class masters or teachers.

00:04:10.000 --> 00:04:23.000
So at the beginning of the nineteenth century, students regularly attacked masters as well as the local population

00:04:23.000 --> 00:04:34.000
They had also been playing violent, disorderly mob games since the Middle Ages. When the public school was started.

00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:40.000
They were gains that witness. The lower class is playing in their communities.

00:04:40.000 --> 00:04:51.000
The masters in public schools in the early nineteenth century were deeply religious, and committed to the Puritan ethic.

00:04:51.000 --> 00:05:01.000
They disapproved of and frowned on these mob guides, and tried to curb these outbreaks of disorderliness.

00:05:01.000 --> 00:05:11.000
But they will gradually losing control of the boys. So by the nineteenth century it was so bad.

00:05:11.000 --> 00:05:21.000
The many public schools attempted radical reform, and one such school was uping on the public.

00:05:21.000 --> 00:05:38.000
The school's reforming head edward free architect of the headmaster's conference of public school heads, so to direct the boys aggression into more noble pursuits.

00:05:38.000 --> 00:06:02.000
But probably the greatest influence was at Rugby School, and probably the most influential person with regard to the development of modern sports, and that person was Thomas Arnold and Arnold is known as the father of public school

00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:13.000
athleticism. The inspiration for Arnold's ideas were taken from the noble traditions of ancient Greece.

00:06:13.000 --> 00:06:17.000
In 1,846. It was Arnold who sat down.

00:06:17.000 --> 00:06:26.000
The first truly standardized rules to the game of football.

00:06:26.000 --> 00:06:41.000
Oh, no! it's puritanism also encouraged Greek Spartan ideals of courage, discipline, leadership of resolve in the face of all austerity.

00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:46.000
So headmaster is like throwing, and Arnold 1, 2, 2 instill.

00:06:46.000 --> 00:07:08.000
These qualities and values into their pupils. After all, I were training the elite who would lead what they thought of as this great empire of nations of ours. and this Olympian ideal was expressed in the

00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:20.000
motto, Mansana, incorporated sono, which, loosely translated, means a healthy mind in a healthy body.

00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:28.000
In practice this meant cold showers, plenty of talk and physical activity.

00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:47.000
It was thought that this would not only instill order and discipline, but also would provide a healthy activity or adolescent boys, distracting them from heavy drinking and gambling as well as what were considered more

00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:54.000
disgusting personal activities, like masteration and buggering.

00:07:54.000 --> 00:08:07.000
These reforming head masters thought therefore that's spot was good for the soul, as well as for the body

00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:17.000
They developed the cult of athleticism and the notion of muscular Christian views of manliness.

00:08:17.000 --> 00:08:23.000
Now muscular Christianity was a movement that assumed that mole.

00:08:23.000 --> 00:08:31.000
Fortitude, as expressed in Christianity, was founded on physical fortitude.

00:08:31.000 --> 00:08:51.000
This reform of sport also involved the development of what came to be known as the Corinthian spirit, and the coincidence Spirit meant more physical and deva as well as moral integrity.

00:08:51.000 --> 00:09:16.000
It involved playing with the rules games. It was thought to be about model instruction, particularly that it is wrong to change What was important was not just the letter, but also the spirit of the game which at the time was expressed.

00:09:16.000 --> 00:09:39.000
The English poet Henry newbolt let's play up, play out play the game so arnold Well, as other reforming headmasters encourage the boys to make the vulgar games that they applied respectable

00:09:39.000 --> 00:09:50.000
the rules of their traditional school guides were formalized into house, competitions were encouraged.

00:09:50.000 --> 00:10:09.000
A masters observed how well the game served to encourage qualities such as loyalty, selflessness, cooperation, supportination, and deference to the team spirit.

00:10:09.000 --> 00:10:15.000
So football was transformed into a gentlemanly guy.

00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:28.000
With a code of conduct. So between 1845, and 1862.

00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:53.000
The 7 main public schools put their rules into writing. However, different schools had different sets of rules, and even though they tried to find a common set of rules, all the published schools still continued, and still continue to this dye to play their own

00:10:53.000 --> 00:10:59.000
peculiar versions of football now having different rules.

00:10:59.000 --> 00:11:14.000
90 difficult for schools to play against one another. I often ended up playing half the game by one school set of rules, and the second half by the other schools rooms.

00:11:14.000 --> 00:11:20.000
And this is how the game became a game of 2 hearts.

00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:33.000
But when they left school many of these old boys wanted to carry on play, so they needed a standardized set of rules.

00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:40.000
Now there was one attempt standardized set of rules called the Cambridge Rules.

00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:50.000
Each public school thought that their rules, like their elite students, were superior to all others.

00:11:50.000 --> 00:12:10.000
So it was difficult to get to get them to agree on a common set of rules, and the Cambridge rules were an attempt to entice all the public schools to associate themselves with a prestigious university like Cambridge where Many of

00:12:10.000 --> 00:12:21.000
them had gone following public school, and the first game under the new Cambridge rules was played here on Parker's piece of Cambridge.

00:12:21.000 --> 00:12:29.000
I know Parks piece quite well, because it's dead opposite where I did my first degree.

00:12:29.000 --> 00:12:36.000
In kind, which is now called Anglia raskin University.

00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:58.000
But it even this didn't work as public schools continue to insist that the game be played under their schools rules, but like to own, after a series of meetings in London rep representatives for Oxford and Cambridge, and from 11 London

00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:09.000
football clubs, met at the Freemasons Tavern, and collectively wrote a common set of rules.

00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:16.000
Now these people that met were all elite gentlemen who had been to public school.

00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:25.000
How many of those public schools Charter House actually sent a webinar to the meeting.

00:13:25.000 --> 00:13:45.000
These new rules, however, were established on the 20 sixth of October, 1,863, but not until after long periods of argument, and wrangling over months of months.

00:13:45.000 --> 00:14:03.000
Nevertheless, the Football Association was established, and the first Faa Rule book was written, and the the rational recreation model of football was established.

00:14:03.000 --> 00:14:10.000
So incompetent it to folk phone.

00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:16.000
There were a number of differences with this rational recreational model.

00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:20.000
First it was highly organized. There were times of guines.

00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:28.000
There were the length of guines. There will go over laws attached to the games.

00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:34.000
They were governing parties, officials controlling the Guines clubs.

00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:38.000
All clubs had to affiliate to the Football Association.

00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:48.000
There was a regular fixture list reflecting the social organization of industrial capitalism.

00:14:48.000 --> 00:15:03.000
There were fixed seasons, although these fixed seasons didn't come about until the formation of the football league later on, and also club colors.

00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:21.000
Those I had always worn their school or university bags or cap Teams didn't always at first we are all the same colors, and after a while it began to occur to them that they would be able to distinguish between their

00:15:21.000 --> 00:15:28.000
teammates and those on the other team more easily if they all wore the same colors again.

00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:41.000
This is evidence of rational thinking. so I want to go through nature phase.

00:15:41.000 --> 00:15:52.000
So because of its origins. The modern game was originally played by X Public school, and Oxford gentlemen.

00:15:52.000 --> 00:16:00.000
In fact, the public school, educated elite of gentlemen, dominated the game.

00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:18.000
At this time the Football Association was dominated by an ex public school elite, and the next major development in football was the inauguration of the Football Association Cup.

00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:31.000
The faire Charles Allcock, a public school outboy, was founder of the Fa Cap, in 1871.

00:16:31.000 --> 00:16:39.000
This is the original fa cap. It was actually stolen in 1895.

00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:47.000
But this replica replaced it, and in 1910 it was given to Lord Canada.

00:16:47.000 --> 00:16:56.000
So his services to the development of the guy i'll talk about Lord Canal a bit with in a moment.

00:16:56.000 --> 00:17:03.000
But you can now see this replica the National Football Museum in Manchester.

00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:10.000
If you ever get to go where you could also have your picture taken with the trophy.

00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:21.000
So, as I said, the early clouds were mainly public school old boys and university graduates.

00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:30.000
The Onlytonians were one of the best sides of that peering, and this is them winning the Fi card.

00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:38.000
In 1,892, in fact, the first 11 years of the F.

00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:42.000
A cup were dominated by teams of X public schoolboys.

00:17:42.000 --> 00:18:02.000
In fact, only elite teams won the fa cap. during this period wanderers, for example, the first winners of the Fi Cup in 1871 included 4 old heroians very old.

00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:11.000
Itodians, one H. for Westminster, Charter House, Oxford, and Cambridge.

00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:18.000
The Corinthian spirit of the gentleman amateur was hegemonic.

00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:28.000
During this period it was considered ungentlemanly demand payment for playing.

00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:48.000
The only oyx wanted pay. paying and It wasn't allowed a hegemony of sportsmanship of playing the game by aristocratic notions of chivalry were encoded into the game.

00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:57.000
It was also, for example, considered cheating to trying football was a pastime.

00:18:57.000 --> 00:19:12.000
It wasn't to be taken so seriously a gentleman is someone who can wait without sweating and without a pewing to try to hard, gentlemen.

00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:24.000
It was thought, when, simply because they are naturally superior to the Oyks,

00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:35.000
So adherence to the rules was even told not cheating was supposed to be character building, although it's mostly gone.

00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:49.000
Now some of this spirit does occasionally surface to die, and also subordination took order, and leadership was inherent in the guine.

00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:56.000
The notion of Captain C was also central to elite Dallas.

00:19:56.000 --> 00:20:10.000
The captain was considered a leader of leaders of men. Now the Duke of Wellington climbed that the battle of Walter Loon was one of the plain fields of Eaton.

00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:19.000
In other words, football was used as a metaphor for supporting ruling interests in society.

00:20:19.000 --> 00:20:27.000
It was a form of moral instruction and a demonstration of elite values.

00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:35.000
Oh, players were obliged to accept the referees decision without question.

00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:53.000
Indeed, if a referee gave a penalty against the gentleman amateur team coincidence, who did more than most teams to spread the game around the world, they would withdraw their goalkeeper to allow the

00:20:53.000 --> 00:21:01.000
other team to score, because then wouldn't want to be accused of gaining an unfair advantage.

00:21:01.000 --> 00:21:12.000
But these gentlemen amateurs, what also team to spread football to the working class.

00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:28.000
So under patrician patronage. the wealthy were very infectious devotees, taking popular or vulgar games, changing their meaning or function in the public schools.

00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:35.000
And then disseminating them to commoners as respectable guides.

00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:39.000
So they were keen to see football to the working class.

00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:45.000
As long as the working class continued, continue to know their place.

00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:56.000
So, then, it was the realization of a moral ideal of the bourgeois class playing by the rules.

00:21:56.000 --> 00:22:03.000
In other words, it was a metaphor for playing by the rules of capitalism for the working class.

00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:18.000
They thought it would be character building, employing muscular Christian values, but it was also highly patronizing the way it was spread to the working class.

00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:36.000
To to give you an a couple of examples of that 2 popular magazines amongst the elite at the time, where the Sporting Gazette and the feature, and they regularly insisted the the world should not

00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:48.000
be too complex for what they described as the uncouth breadthren, or John Ball fresh from the plow.

00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:54.000
I want you to return football in a reconstructed form, as they be believed.

00:22:54.000 --> 00:23:02.000
It would be beneficial to promote class conciliation or cohesion.

00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:23.000
Bearing in mind that the Industrial Revolution, not much earlier than this, had separated the classes by creating giant urban conservations that were almost wholly working class in places like Manchester, Liverpool and the East End,

00:23:23.000 --> 00:23:45.000
of London. There was a lot of industrial strife at this time, as in industrial capitalism, was still struggling to establish it itself, and there was a great fear The disorder could break out at any moment.

00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:53.000
So I also wanted to provide an entry into bourgeois respectability.

00:23:53.000 --> 00:24:13.000
So in the words of Matthew arnold the son of Thomas Tarnell, to provided all train to bourgeois respectability, so that the working class, in his words don't wallow in this beer their

00:24:13.000 --> 00:24:23.000
gene and their fun. In other words, he saw it as part of the civilizing process.

00:24:23.000 --> 00:24:33.000
But also to spread ruling class values to the most deprived and feared working class areas.

00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:45.000
That's one of the reasons why the oldest and most successful clubs are situated in working class areas.

00:24:45.000 --> 00:25:04.000
So. there was more than a touch of social engineering in the mind of the proponents of a universal code to bring about the spirit of orderly behavior, of self-control and discipline in the masses and the other

00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:10.000
educated working classes,

00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:26.000
So they sent out missionaries to work in class areas. So much muscular Christian missionary work was done through the church, through schools and through youth clubs.

00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:36.000
You know, many ex public school boys have become teachers clerks, or they had entered the clergy.

00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:48.000
So if we take us an example, Everton, for all club, Everton started out as a Sunday School football team

00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:56.000
So also many muscular Christian missionaries became local employers.

00:25:56.000 --> 00:26:03.000
So, for example, Stoke City, cruel Alexandra and

00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:23.000
Manchester United, all started in railway companies. Coventry City, for example, emerge from the solar singer, selling machine factory and personal from the village munitions.

00:26:23.000 --> 00:26:37.000
Factoring and my team West Ham united from the an East End ship building that we pay yard

00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:47.000
But because of working class involvement. This was quiteually changing.

00:26:47.000 --> 00:26:58.000
The notion that the gentleman elite dominated the game and up until 1,883 they had.

00:26:58.000 --> 00:27:07.000
They dominate the gain that dominate its results. it dominate its dominated its governing bodies and its culture.

00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:12.000
For 20 years, but as a site because of working class involvement.

00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:19.000
This was gradually changing. Elite Teams had won the F. A.

00:27:19.000 --> 00:27:35.000
Cup for the first 11 years, from 1,871 until 1,982, until a rapture of hegemonic proportions occurred in 1,883 and the significance of

00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:51.000
the 1,883 fa cup final shouldn't be us to underestimated Lord Kinette's Olditonians lost the fa cup final after extra time 2 Blackburn

00:27:51.000 --> 00:28:03.000
Olympic. The game was a bitter struggle that went to extra time with the Olditonians.

00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:15.000
Determined not to lose to these working class oyks as I saw them, and the Olympic team determined not to suffer defeat.

00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:24.000
But for second year in the wrong, Olympics scored the winning goal in extra time.

00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:37.000
Lord Kenneth was very gracious in defeat as he had been responsible more than anyone for encouraging the working class to take up the game.

00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:52.000
He teammates, however, regarded it as an insult to their superiority, and wanted to declare the result null and void, because they said extra time.

00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:59.000
This was until Lord Canada interfed and said he wasn't having it.

00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:18.000
These working class slides like one fair and square. In fact, Blackburn, Olympic, was the first team from the north of England, and they consisted mainly of mill workers, but also weavers spinners, a

00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:29.000
dental assistant, a plumber a cop worker and an iron foundry worker, and unlike the old Deutonians.

00:29:29.000 --> 00:29:47.000
They're taken a very professional approach. to the cup final We've got to diet, and we've regard to training in Blackpool in the week before the final something that the Olditonians regarded as cheating but this was

00:29:47.000 --> 00:29:54.000
just the start of domination by Northern teens, made up mostly of working class men.

00:29:54.000 --> 00:30:04.000
In fact. Yes, I, Cap, was never won by a gentleman amateur team again.

00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:15.000
Another working class chain, blackboard rovers, then one the fa cup in the next 3 seasons.

00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:21.000
So we gradually saw the demise of elite football.

00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:33.000
Within 5 years of the Blackburn Olympic victory, Elitist football had been swept aside by tens of industrial working men.

00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:43.000
So in less than a generation working class had climbed the playing of the guy as they are.

00:30:43.000 --> 00:30:50.000
James Weldon says in his book, which is a brilliant book, Cool the people's game.

00:30:50.000 --> 00:31:06.000
No greater indication exists of the changes to English football than the fact that by the early twentieth century the Corinthians, with their top hats and kinds, were utterly exceptional.

00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:25.000
In 1880 they would have been typical. So now some old boys teams did survive, like old Wigg Estonians, for example, who, lighter went on to become less descent.

00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:32.000
But also the working class started for me with their own teams.

00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:43.000
So, for example, rather than united, were formed in 1884, by working class name under a street lamp.

00:31:43.000 --> 00:31:50.000
You know, games of young working class Men loitered the streets at night then as well as now.

00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:56.000
Industrial towns and cities became heartlands of football.

00:31:56.000 --> 00:32:05.000
Glasgow, Liverpool, Manchester, leads New Castle, West Midlands, and East London.

00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:11.000
But why had the working class of industrial towns and cities so successfully?

00:32:11.000 --> 00:32:25.000
Me a late Well, there are a number of ways, and I want to examine each of these in turn.

00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:35.000
Muscular Christianity that the working class will already devotease, of of playing football, middle class patronage.

00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:49.000
The style of play that working class people brought to the game they're coming of the railways, the saturday half day holiday for working class people and professionalism were all important.

00:32:49.000 --> 00:32:57.000
So let's look at these in turn muscular question missionary work.

00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:12.000
The colonizing zeal of the public school sportsman was directed, especially at the most deprived, and, as they saw in deprived working class aliens.

00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:30.000
So for example, as Charles Core says in his book about West Ham, united the men from Upping on flocked in droves to the East End of London on missionary social world.

00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:39.000
As a consequence, Core says, the whole area became and still is, football man.

00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:45.000
To give you. some idea of that. This is happening. Marshes.

00:33:45.000 --> 00:34:08.000
Yeah, 5. The 19 sixties. When I played there Hackney marshes in the East End of London had a 150 football pitches, and on Saturdays every one of them was hosting again so

00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:17.000
you stand of London is absolutely football mad.

00:34:17.000 --> 00:34:25.000
And that happened in in other areas as well. Was it actually a new game that was brought to

00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:45.000
The working class, and they are those historians that argue that football wasn't simply an app upper class transplant onto working class communities that, despite the suppression of folk football, it had remind remarkably resilient in

00:34:45.000 --> 00:35:04.000
a more clandestine full. Oh, Sha! Also, as you, Cunningham says, It is true that those local traditional annual matches, ranging over huge spaces and involving whole populations, how had for the most part been

00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:08.000
abolished during the first half of the century in the nineteenth century.

00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:21.000
That is, but it seems highly likely that the more casual practice of kicking a bowl around practice much closer to the modern game of football had survived. I'm.

00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:26.000
Not a casual practice, of course, that continued late into the twentieth century.

00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:35.000
I can remember as I'm sure many of you can kicking a bowl around in the street with jumpers for gold posts when when I was a kid.

00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:44.000
Oh, so, as I said, the patronage of the bourgeois classes was important.

00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:56.000
For a while, so the facilities of the sponsorship provided by the bourgeois class employers chances, etc., was vital.

00:35:56.000 --> 00:36:06.000
Darling in mind that football was largely black band in public parts.

00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:19.000
But this didn't employ submission to the values of the rolling classes, as as we will.

00:36:19.000 --> 00:36:32.000
On the contrary, as we will say, as Cunningham says, the working class, for lack of any alternative, was prepared to accept along as as long as necessary.

00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:40.000
The fact of middle class sponsorship, but not its ideology.

00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:47.000
So part of the album flow of hegemonic struggle was transforming.

00:36:47.000 --> 00:36:55.000
Football into a means of expressing ideas in opposition to coincidence values.

00:36:55.000 --> 00:37:17.000
So rather than working, class leisure, being colonized by the middle classes, reconstructed for, always colonized by the working class and impregnated with working class values.

00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:41.000
Oh, so The values of that were the working class book to the game were more likely to be successful. As John Hargory says in his book, Working class football was characterized by vociferous partisanship a premium

00:37:41.000 --> 00:37:53.000
on victory, a suspicion of an a disdain for constituted authority, a lack of veneration for official rules.

00:37:53.000 --> 00:38:01.000
Mutual solidarity is the basis of teamwork, a preference for tangible monetary rewards for effort.

00:38:01.000 --> 00:38:07.000
And a hedonistic, vulgar festival.

00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:15.000
Now you can probably recognize some of these values in today's game.

00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:25.000
So in the making and the remaking of working class culture and i'll talk about Ap.

00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:34.000
Thompson. In a moment football became, in the word of Arthur Hotcraft in his book, the Football Man of another great book.

00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:42.000
It became not so much an opia of the people as a flag run up against the gaffer.

00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:47.000
Bolting his gates, and the Landlord armed with his balance in E. P.

00:38:47.000 --> 00:39:06.000
Thompson's book the making of the English working class. he suggests that in terms of its culture class is not a thing, but class is something that's constantly being made and remained so, giving the ruling classes a good

00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:16.000
thrashing on the football pitch was away for the working class of at least getting a small bit of revenge.

00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:35.000
I'm making the ruling classes feel uncomfortable for all the privations that they had visited on working class people

00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:48.000
Oh, styles of play were in port! so individualism or a heroic endeavor was characteristic of the gentleman.

00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:55.000
Amateur guine. Consequently the dribbling guy dominated elite football.

00:39:55.000 --> 00:40:13.000
It was about heroic endeavor. So to give you an example of that, the winning goal in the 1,874 varsity guy was scored by an opium who had dribbled the

00:40:13.000 --> 00:40:22.000
whole length of the pitch, However, the working class put greater emphasis on teamwork.

00:40:22.000 --> 00:40:36.000
The working costs were more used to divisions of live in their working life, but also they were more used to collectivist values, you know, through trade unions, through community values.

00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:45.000
And so these were more in keeping with working class experiences.

00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:58.000
So it seems to me there is no accident that within 2 years of the tripling guy being superseded by what's sometimes called the great transformation of football style.

00:40:58.000 --> 00:41:10.000
By the more effective passing game. it's no accident it seems to me that the working class came to dominant football.

00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:18.000
However, there were some who argue that geography was the more decisive back time.

00:41:18.000 --> 00:41:37.000
It was the Scots who had perfected the passing guy That's why Scotland be England more times the vice versa in international matches for the first 20 years, when professionalism kind.

00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:43.000
Many English clubs employed what they called Scottish professors.

00:41:43.000 --> 00:42:02.000
From the industrial heartlands of Scotland, and right up, and children are a constant stream of Scottish players move, moving south to English clubs, but also an important factor was improved.

00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:13.000
Transport, improve transport facilitated the possibility of regular fixedualists for working class teams.

00:42:13.000 --> 00:42:19.000
The building of the railways, in particular, was crucial before the railways were built.

00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:27.000
In the nineteenth century most people rarely moved out of the communities in which they lived.

00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:38.000
Eventually pretty well. were providing football specials to take fans as well as players to a way guides.

00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:44.000
And these football specials was still running up until the 19 eighties.

00:42:44.000 --> 00:43:02.000
So you can see here the expansion of the railway system between 1,851 and 1881, which was a crucial time for the development of football amongst the working class.

00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:11.000
But the development of travel bathrooms was also in port, also

00:43:11.000 --> 00:43:17.000
The Saturday half day Holiday was important in the mid nineteenth century.

00:43:17.000 --> 00:43:22.000
It was common for men to work 72 h a week.

00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:27.000
In other words, 6 days a week, 12 h a day. out.

00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:34.000
Of course football on Sunday was banned and it was banned until 1960.

00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:43.000
So there was no time to play football but strikes.

00:43:43.000 --> 00:43:51.000
During this period, just after the mid nineteenth century, led to the winning of the Saturday.

00:43:51.000 --> 00:44:05.000
Half day holiday, first by clocks and skilled workers in the 18 seventies, then by semi-skilled workers in the 18 eighties, and then by most laborers.

00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:28.000
In the it the lack what's the result of what's called New Unionism, which was the birth of very large general trade unions, mostly marxist orientated and committed to militant policies, and action, so during

00:44:28.000 --> 00:44:37.000
this period there were waves upon ways of national strikes in the 1,800 eightys in particular.

00:44:37.000 --> 00:44:49.000
Including a national dock Strike Gas Workers National Gas Workers strike deployment and Ma match girls strike and soul.

00:44:49.000 --> 00:45:02.000
So most of the by this time it achieved the 56 h week which gave the first opportunities for organizing leisure.

00:45:02.000 --> 00:45:09.000
And that's why 3 o'clock on a saturday became the normal or kickoff time.

00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:18.000
It gave working men time to get home from work to have some lunch to get changed and to get to a football.

00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:37.000
Are those players or spectators, and until we recently, of course, virtually all games kicked off at 3 o'clock on a Saturday, so the wisdom of the seasons, the traditional Tro Trove time got had been replaced

00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:40.000
by the rhythm of the weekly fixture list.

00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:50.000
This was part of the shift from the rhythms of traditional society to the rhythms of modernity.

00:45:50.000 --> 00:46:01.000
Lastly, was the advent of professionalism

00:46:01.000 --> 00:46:07.000
Through the notion of the gentleman amateur, the elite had been able to dominate the guy.

00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:18.000
It was the elite who decided how clubs should operate, and as a consequence they were always at an advantage.

00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:26.000
They don't dominated not only the way it was played, but also the vote, the rules, and they established and ran the governing body.

00:46:26.000 --> 00:46:44.000
The Football Association and by outlawing professionalism by what were able to exclude working class players, or least curtail their ability to compete on a level playing field.

00:46:44.000 --> 00:46:59.000
So, as Gary Wannell says in his book: The enshrine of the distinction between the amateur and the professional meant that gentlemen of leisure had a huge and permanent advantage over those whose work left

00:46:59.000 --> 00:47:10.000
little time for training and preparation, plus the fact that working class players were probably sharing out from their long hours of work.

00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:21.000
But of course we're much less fit because of the conditions that most working class people were raised in and into it during their lives, you know.

00:47:21.000 --> 00:47:28.000
So, for example, there was no free access to healthcare, which, of course, meant no healthcare at all.

00:47:28.000 --> 00:47:39.000
So the gradual breaking of the gentleman amateur code was vital for working class appropriation of the game.

00:47:39.000 --> 00:47:48.000
And it was this that also led to the gentleman amateurs, abandoning the guine in disgust.

00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:53.000
What vice, or as the perversion of their good works.

00:47:53.000 --> 00:48:00.000
And so it was that between 1880 and 1910 J.

00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:09.000
30 years the football became a central part of working class culture.

00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:20.000
Finally, I just want to say that much of this with specific regard to my club, West Ham united, you can read about in this new book.

00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:27.000
So this is a bit of promotional stuff they're not just had published.

00:48:27.000 --> 00:48:37.000
Okay, so that's, it, that's the end of the presentation. Thanks very much, Jack, and I don't know if you want to stop screen sharing now, and we'll have a look at some questions.

00:48:37.000 --> 00:48:41.000
And that was really a opening, and not sure about anyone else.

00:48:41.000 --> 00:48:45.000
But I certainly had no idea in about the game having its roots in the upper classes.

00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:51.000
Interesting that back. Then, as you said, that players were expected to accept the reflection without question.

00:48:51.000 --> 00:49:02.000
That certainly changed a little bit. hasn't it so right okay, let's have a look at some questions.

00:49:02.000 --> 00:49:05.000
No, i've got a couple of questions I think that are quite similar.

00:49:05.000 --> 00:49:13.000
Actually i'll read both of them out and then you can give us your your thoughts. You've kind of touched on some of this already.

00:49:13.000 --> 00:49:22.000
Question from John. Do you think many working players were taken in by the social engine eating even today middle and working class Professionally, football is rear.

00:49:22.000 --> 00:49:32.000
Even their massive wages rarely propel them into the upper class elite, and then also from Helen who's saying, You know it?

00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:39.000
It is astonishing that pretty much a 100% of British football is a working class.

00:49:39.000 --> 00:49:44.000
And yet this is not the case in Europe. and she gives the example of Jim Jian.

00:49:44.000 --> 00:50:00.000
Look at the Alley who was brought up in a castle I didn't know that. so what's your kind of take on that Dakota me Well, first of all I mean we're were they taken in

00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:11.000
by upper class social engineering, I think that's a difficult question to answer without kind of, you know, transporting myself back to that time to ask.

00:50:11.000 --> 00:50:27.000
But my feeling is that it's kind of 50 50 perhaps they were taken into some extent by that social engineering, because the muscular Christian missionaries didn't just use football I use the Bible.

00:50:27.000 --> 00:50:32.000
They used you know, other working class leisure.

00:50:32.000 --> 00:50:45.000
They provided public parks, and so on. So to some extent, I think the working class will take, I mean, but I think because you know, working class values were very different.

00:50:45.000 --> 00:50:51.000
I infused the the game with their their their own values.

00:50:51.000 --> 00:51:04.000
But I don't think that you know There was some working cost people that were probably more enlightened than others about what the middle and upper classes were attempting to do.

00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:10.000
So you know, perhaps a mixture as far as why.

00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:14.000
Why, working class in England, I think you know the game started in.

00:51:14.000 --> 00:51:29.000
Well, the modern game started in this country, but if you look at the history of folk, football folk, football was played throughout Europe, in various phones, in France, in Italy, and so on.

00:51:29.000 --> 00:51:51.000
And was that actually in Italy, for example? they There is a game called calcio which is still played today, which was an upper class guy, but he is very rough very very well, but I think so.

00:51:51.000 --> 00:52:06.000
I think the reason one of the reasons why it's mainly working class in this country and not necessarily in other countries is because because of the specific history.

00:52:06.000 --> 00:52:24.000
Oh, of the time in this country. but yeah I mean it's quite true that it's not you know the virtually all professional footballers in this country not the phone class that have come in but you know certainly those who grew up

00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:31.000
in Britain. come from working class backgrounds and there's certain areas. I mean.

00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:41.000
Yesterday we were in South London, for example, where you could throw a blanket over that area and come up with a dozen Premier League footballers.

00:52:41.000 --> 00:52:54.000
So i've got what was gonna say then Yeah, So you know, we you know they start out as working class.

00:52:54.000 --> 00:53:03.000
But you know It's a question that I deal dealt with in the course that I used to take about whether they're still working class.

00:53:03.000 --> 00:53:15.000
Once they become multi millionaires and you know we've just clients now being offered £400,000 a week.

00:53:15.000 --> 00:53:22.000
And many of them from working class backgrounds. Are they still working class?

00:53:22.000 --> 00:53:29.000
Well, I mean that depends on how you define class that's a whole, not like job.

00:53:29.000 --> 00:53:38.000
Okay, thanks, Jack. Okay. No, and I think we've got a couple of other questions.

00:53:38.000 --> 00:53:49.000
No! these are a a question from steve this is about refugees, and we're recipes ever people who look who were literally only referred to.

00:53:49.000 --> 00:53:54.000
If the players were unable to agree on decisions. So this is going back.

00:53:54.000 --> 00:54:05.000
We back. Yes, yes, I will. Yeah. when when it started in the public schools, if the 2 teams couldn't agree, they'd defer to a referee.

00:54:05.000 --> 00:54:10.000
In fact, there was. Originally there were 2 referees.

00:54:10.000 --> 00:54:15.000
There was one for each half of the pitch. so yes, they did.

00:54:15.000 --> 00:54:24.000
They did defer to the referee and say what's the decision. but and I would never question the decision of the rough worry.

00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:31.000
Not so today. Okay, question from Sue, in fact.

00:54:31.000 --> 00:54:38.000
So, too, sort of questions from sue what's the early winning by working class teams.

00:54:38.000 --> 00:54:43.000
Even more especially touched on this a little bit even more of an achievement, as they had to do.

00:54:43.000 --> 00:54:53.000
The hard manual work as well as play, where the amateurs and at what point did it become professional in the working class game?

00:54:53.000 --> 00:55:00.000
Well, if we take Blackburn Olympic, for example.

00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:04.000
2 of them Pliers had been brought in from Scotland.

00:55:04.000 --> 00:55:15.000
Now the team on the face of it were not professional, but they were offered a job.

00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:32.000
They were offered jobs in a local factory Blackburn. very good wages if they would play for Blackburn, Olympic and you know, if I would help train the rest of the team.

00:55:32.000 --> 00:55:50.000
I'm just rackie mark right now to think of the names of those 2 players I can't. but anyway, so you know it, it I won't professional as such you know that they would give inducements like that plus

00:55:50.000 --> 00:55:59.000
also, even though they were amateur they were often given expenses.

00:55:59.000 --> 00:56:07.000
And those expenses was sometimes very generous expenses.

00:56:07.000 --> 00:56:20.000
And and this was, and then so those that were in charge of the Fi elite decided eventually to ban even the paying of expenses.

00:56:20.000 --> 00:56:33.000
And what what happened Basically, what happened was the work in class team said, Well, you know, if this is what's going to happen, we'll set up the football League.

00:56:33.000 --> 00:56:39.000
They set up the football league which the elite gentleman didn't want anything to do with it.

00:56:39.000 --> 00:56:54.000
Where professionalism became part of and the football league was so successful that a gentleman amateur, you know, had had to relinquish control of the guy.

00:56:54.000 --> 00:56:58.000
But the control of they will relinquish control of playing the game.

00:56:58.000 --> 00:57:13.000
But they still held onto control of the Football Association for a while, and then the Football Association was kind of taken over by the middle class people rather than upper class people.

00:57:13.000 --> 00:57:33.000
And I mean, even when I was a kid, these people that came down from the Fa to watch games, they were known as the Blaze, because, you know, they dressed like middle class people in Lisa and Chess and ties how do I answer the question,

00:57:33.000 --> 00:57:46.000
piano. I think so. and so. At what point did the professionalism actually come in then, with the ?

00:57:46.000 --> 00:57:52.000
Okay, yeah. professionalism had established itself by then.

00:57:52.000 --> 00:58:00.000
Okay, no let's see. I think We might have another couple of questions, and then we'll help me to wrap up a thanks in since we started to be believe so.

00:58:00.000 --> 00:58:08.000
Can you say anything? This is from Andrew, and can you say anything about the clothes of football latches?

00:58:08.000 --> 00:58:14.000
Presumably the fact Working class clubs attracted much bigger grades helped to best of success.

00:58:14.000 --> 00:58:24.000
Yeah, It's interesting. The one of the things about the Blackburn Olympic victory which disturbed many of the elite was the Blackburn.

00:58:24.000 --> 00:58:29.000
Olympic bought thousands of supporters down for black with them.

00:58:29.000 --> 00:58:43.000
About 2,000, I think and they were very partisan, and this was against the spirit of the game was considered to be against the spirit of the guy.

00:58:43.000 --> 00:58:56.000
And yeah One of the things about the working class, you know.

00:58:56.000 --> 00:59:01.000
Adopting the game was that in the late nineteenth century.

00:59:01.000 --> 00:59:05.000
At first it was only a minority of working class people.

00:59:05.000 --> 00:59:15.000
The adopted. The guy far more adopted watching the game became spectators and the crowds group.

00:59:15.000 --> 00:59:26.000
I think the the fa cup final in it. So some 71 was watched by 2,000 people.

00:59:26.000 --> 00:59:37.000
Boy. The first part of the twentieth century clouds had climbed to something like 80,000 a cop.

00:59:37.000 --> 00:59:54.000
Find them and of course the first Wembley fa cup final in 1,923 was attended by an estimated because lots of working class people broke in without tickets.

00:59:54.000 --> 00:59:58.000
You know, they said hulganism was started in the sixties.

00:59:58.000 --> 01:00:08.000
No, it didn't there was an estimate 250,000 in Wembley that guy have a human touch line.

01:00:08.000 --> 01:00:23.000
So by the First World War it was taking off, and of course a lot of it was closed down during the First World War and it we started after the First World War when crowds became huge.

01:00:23.000 --> 01:00:40.000
Yeah, I've just noticed actually in the chat someone It's Steve not toll one of the most respected teachers at my school in Hackney, in the 19 seventies was Lori Leslie West dam player of

01:00:40.000 --> 01:00:47.000
the year 1,961 and Scotland team player from a topnam hotspace porter.

01:00:47.000 --> 01:01:00.000
It's funny because only yesterday I was writing about lori Leslie, because Leslie Leslie was the player that inspired me to become a goalkeeper.

01:01:00.000 --> 01:01:15.000
So isn't that strange Okay, right just looking at the time. and one quick question here from Mark is it not the case that nowadays public schools play Rugby rather than football.

01:01:15.000 --> 01:01:31.000
I think that's probably right. isn't it yeah I mean when when they abandoned the the the modern game of football, they did 2 things public schools I continue playing there own versions of football.

01:01:31.000 --> 01:01:39.000
And if you go to Eaton or haran or Westminster today, you'll see them applying their own versions.

01:01:39.000 --> 01:01:50.000
Football, but also most of those public, because the division between football and that you was how many gradually came about.

01:01:50.000 --> 01:02:00.000
You know. there's this myth that William Webex and Ellis picked the bowl up. Pick the ball up and man with it.

01:02:00.000 --> 01:02:12.000
And so rumpy was created that's myth there There were kind of rules that you know some schools where you could handle the ball as well as kick the board.

01:02:12.000 --> 01:02:17.000
So. so the distinction between Rugby and football only became a that came about gradually.

01:02:17.000 --> 01:02:26.000
But when the upper class is abandoned, what they abandoned football in its modern form.

01:02:26.000 --> 01:02:45.000
Yes, they took out more ramp the Union, and that the Union became, You know, the the upper class game, and it still is applied mostly in public schools, whereas Rugby League, which is played mostly in the North of England became the

01:02:45.000 --> 01:02:56.000
working class game of rugby and interesting like one phase question, And then we're gonna wrap things up cause that will then mean we've got through all the questions which is good.

01:02:56.000 --> 01:03:02.000
And this is this is a question about women's football from Steve, and he says,

01:03:02.000 --> 01:03:13.000
I know that until the if they stamped it out women's, football had to become very popular among both players and spectators.

01:03:13.000 --> 01:03:21.000
When did it start to become popular? I presume that when it originally started to become popular?

01:03:21.000 --> 01:03:26.000
Well, actually, this is another lecture that I do on on women's, football.

01:03:26.000 --> 01:03:36.000
The history of Women's football women played football from its inception when working class men start playing football.

01:03:36.000 --> 01:03:57.000
So so did women, and there was women's teams in the nineteenth century. But women's football became extremely popular during the first World War, because men were a wire at The front women were Both into factories

01:03:57.000 --> 01:04:17.000
particularly munitions factories. They started forming factory teams to play against one another, and a lot of those games were to try and raise money ex servicemen that were injured during the second World war and one of the

01:04:17.000 --> 01:04:34.000
most famous change of that Era were called Dick Kurz ladies and Dick Kurz ladies were so successful they became ambassadors for Women's football throughout the world.

01:04:34.000 --> 01:04:39.000
They traveled the world playing the the the winning sky.

01:04:39.000 --> 01:04:47.000
And you know one of their most famous players. Lily.

01:04:47.000 --> 01:04:58.000
Paul was an extremely good footballer, a best football or ever, but it became so popular, and, in fact, a lot of people don't realize this.

01:04:58.000 --> 01:05:08.000
But in the early 1,900 twenties some games we're attracting as crowds of 80,000 spectators.

01:05:08.000 --> 01:05:25.000
And but the fi didn't like this because it was dominated by name, and so that banned football a night band, clubs affiliated to the fi allowing women's football to take place,

01:05:25.000 --> 01:05:45.000
on their grounds. Now it did continue in a very clandestine form for 50 years after that, but it didn't die out, but virtually died out until the 1,966 world cup inspired many women to

01:05:45.000 --> 01:05:52.000
start playing again, and in 1971 because of pressure from women's tame.

01:05:52.000 --> 01:05:59.000
The game was unbanned, but even then the fi took a very patronizing attitude to the women's game.

01:05:59.000 --> 01:06:07.000
Right up until probably about 5 years ago. So they had to struggle to establish their game.

01:06:07.000 --> 01:06:16.000
Nice being on an equal footing to men and it still isn't on an equal it's getting there, though, isn't it?

01:06:16.000 --> 01:06:19.000
It's getting now. Yeah, okay, folks, I think that's us for tonight.