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Lecture

A talk about rhythm

Rhythm plays such a big role in our lives, both in music and in spoken and written language. And it has such a huge impact on our health and wellbeing. Perhaps the most important rhythm of all is the one we are born with - our beating heart.

In this lecture, we will explore the different ways that people respond to rhythm, how drum beats and musical patterns can unlock our deepest moods and thoughts, whether on the dance floor, at concerts, or even just sitting on a rattling train. 

Join Mark, who will illustrate his rhythmical ideas through video clips and even some live drumming!

Video transcript

0:00

my title has come from a poem by wordsworth

0:06

and one of my favorite parts of words is in his autobiographical poem

0:14

the prelude which he wrote when he was actually very young man in his late 20s

0:20

i guess a lot of people think of poets writers as quite old people with beards

0:26

um wordsworth certainly was fortunate to have grown old but i think he wrote his best stuff as a younger as a younger man

0:34

um perhaps one of the most important books that he wrote was his autobiographical uh poem

0:40

the prelude a massive great big chunk of a book probably the most underread books of

0:46

poetry but one of the most beautiful books that has ever been written certainly my desert island book

0:53

i was amazed when i first heard the when i first heard the prelude when i first read it

0:58

because you can kind of hear it um there's this section it's quite a famous

1:04

section where wordsworth is talking about his childhood experiences

1:10

and he remembers one night when he went to a lake

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it was dark he found a small boat moored by the lakeside

1:23

and he got in it he wasn't his own and he went pushed it off in the dead of

1:28

night into the middle of the lake and he had this incred it was actually a

1:34

very scary moment a lot of the best moments in the prelude

1:39

words with experiences with nature are actually quite scary moments but he actually

1:47

thinks it's quite good he actually thought it was quite good for children to do things like this that kind of made

1:53

them feel a little bit on the edge a little bit out of their depth and in places that were quite awesome

2:00

and of course he grew up in the lake district he pushes his boat into the middle of the lake

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and this massive mountain rears up the more the further he goes a massive

2:14

great big mountain anyone who's been the lakes will know what that's like usually

2:20

it's probably the section of the prelude that's the most quoted it's the most well known and certainly taught in

2:27

schools in fact it's usually the only bit that's taught in schools apart from the blooming daffodils i've always said

2:34

there's more to words with than a bunch of daff's and there certainly is um so this boat this place is usually

2:41

very well quoted piece what amazed me is that this section of the boat builds

2:49

up to a kind of crescendo and it's the bit that comes after it

2:55

that really made me know that this was a poet for me

3:02

when wordsworth tries to put into words what it was like for a small boy

3:09

to be in all of his surroundings

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and to feel somehow connected to the world around him

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how on earth do you express that what it's like to feel

3:27

the universe and this planet is a truly remarkable place to be

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how do you put that into words he tried and it goes like this

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but i'm going to as it were build up to it from the first bit from the kid in the

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boat on the lake and the bit that i really wanted to draw attention to is the bit that begins

3:52

a wisdom and spirit of the universe

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okay i'm going to read for my own 1926 edition of the prelude

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okay so let's take it from the end of this section

4:13

lustily i dipped my oars into the silent lake

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and as i rose upon the stroke my boat went heaving through the water

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that craggy steep till then the bound of the horizon a huge cliff as

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if with voluntary power instinct up reared its head i struck and struck again

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and growing still in stature the huge cliff rose up between me and

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the stars and still with measured motion

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like a living thing strode after me with trembling hands i turned and

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through the silent water stole my way back to the cavern of the willow tree

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there in her mooring place i left my bark and through the meadows

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homewood went with grave and serious thoughts and after i had seen that spectacle for

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many days my brain worked with a dim and undetermined sense of unknown modes of

5:31

being in my thoughts there was a darkness

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call it solitude or blank desertion no familiar shapes of hourly objects

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images of trees of sea or colors of green fields but huge and

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mighty forms that do not live like living men moved slowly through my mind by day and

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were the trouble of my dreams wisdom and spirit of the universe

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thou soul that art the eternity of thought that gives to

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forms and images a breath and everlasting motion

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not in vain by day or starlight thus from my first dawn of

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childhood did style intertwine for me the passions that build up our human

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soul not with the mean and vulgar works of man but with high objects

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with enduring things with life and nature

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purifying thus the elements of feeling and of thought

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and sanctifying by such discipline both pain and fear

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until we recognize a grandeur in the beatings of the heart

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it's a great kind of moment in words with life these words and i just love

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the crescendo and it ends with this great line until we recognize a grandeur

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in the beatings of the heart and that there's as if wordsworth wants to say there's something so

7:24

fundamentally great important holy hugely significant about the thing that

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we have inside us that's ticking away beating beating away all the time

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the word beat is very important to wordsworth and he uses it quite a lot

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you might have noticed as i reading that that the poem itself has a beat

7:48

until we recognize a grandeur in the beatings of the heart the passions that build up our human

7:54

soul not with the mean and vulgar works of man the elements of feeling and of thought

8:03

alone has this rhythm going through it all of the words of poetry

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does um the prelude begins actually with wordsworth sitting outside

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he's sitting outside and he feels he doesn't know what to write and he feels a breeze hitting it against his

8:24

cheek beating as he says against his cheek

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oh there is blessing in this gentle breeze he writes that blows from the green fields and

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from the clouds and from the sky it beats against my cheek and seems half

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conscious of the joy it gives i love that uh idea that the wind is

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beating and it's the whole of this autobiography begins with that moment of

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a breeze beating against his cheek and it makes him think about his

8:57

journey as a poet i like that idea though that the

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the heart is something grand that perhaps we haven't noticed the effect that it has on our life

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we associate it don't we with an organ of feeling and emotion and romantic

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romantic love um but we also associate the heart with with with with feeling with the capacity

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to feel what other people are feeling and our capacity to feel our own

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emotions pain and sorrow and most importantly of course we associate

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the heart with life itself amazingly if you put your hand

9:39

on your on your heart now uh we've all got a beat

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basically all the time from the moment we're conceived we've got this well not from them we could see

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but we got this beat the heart that is sustaining us it's our life's pulse

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um i'm always struck and uh people might say to me i can't play the drums i

10:04

have no sense of rhythm but actually there's been a rhythm even now with through all of us that's

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pounding away first sustaining us

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the rhythm of life um i'm fascinated so i love that that idea with wordsworth um

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until we recognize a grandeur in the beatings of the heart um and i i guess a lot of poetry does

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depend on the heartbeat let me just move on

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um on this on this rhythm that's there if you notice then

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some of the the rhythms that are used in poetry also many of them have names

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the beat that wordsworth uses in the prelude is known as an iambic pentameter nobody needs to

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know what it's called it's just kind of one of those handy technical terms so if you listen

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to one of those lines they'll soul up the eternity of thought it's got that

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boom it's got that iambic beat going through it

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and i am is i've tried to put a little diagram on here is an unstressed beat da

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followed by a stressed beat

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if you've got five of those

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that's called anaemic pentameter if you use words thou soul at the eternity of

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thought the amazing thing about wordsworth's autobiography is the whole thing his

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whole life stories is written in that rhythm you can i can play the iambic

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pentameter on the drum actually very quickly

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[Music]

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that's what it is an unstressed beat followed by a stress

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beat the poet tony harrison has actually said that

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english is a particularly iambic language we often talk

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using that rhythm but we don't perhaps think of that we that we do we do he he quote once quotes

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himself he's on a train and he heard a woman talking about her brother-in-law and she said he works for british gypsum

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outside leeds and actually harrison that's a that's a perfect that's a perfect iron pentameter he works for

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british chips from outside leads

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it's got the heartbeat running through it the heartbeat the rhythm of the heartbeat is a part of our language

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almost as if there is a connection between the stuff that comes out there and the stuff that's going on in there

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i think poetry especially rhythmical poetry reminds us

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of our physicality to speak it reminds us of our physicality of the of the

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rhythm of our of the natural rhythm of our lives um so

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i think from an early age i loved um drums rhythm and poetry they're both

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intertwined and i'm beginning to see more and more that there's that there's there's a reason for this

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i am big pentameter why i am and i am evidently was a creature

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that appeared in ancient greek theater i haven't got a picture of one it was a half goat half man

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so when the i am used to walk on stage it made it you could people could hear

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when it was coming on it was a jokey character used to come on and tell rude jokes and people knew it was coming

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because it had one human foot and one goat foot so it sounded like this when it came in

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[Music] it made that kind of sound a bit like a

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sailor with one foot it came limping on the iambic beat literally limps

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when i've taught iron pentameters when i teach poetry in schools i take get the kids to take off one shoe put some

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stones in it just in one and then walk across the classroom and they all do that i am big

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beat it makes you limp the iambic beat that's the lifeblood of

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british poetry nearly all poetry

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the romantics needed to affirm rhythm and music because i think they needed to affirm

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feeling um feeling was really important not just intellectual not just thoughts and ideas

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of which wordsworth had many but actual feeling emotional feeling the ability to

15:04

feel um wordsworth has written quite a lot about this of course especially in his

15:09

first book lines written at a small distance from my house

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uh it's a great poem i i i won't read it all now but in this particular poem

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wordsworth is insisting that it's quite unusual for a writer a lot of his poems were telling people to stop

15:26

writing stop reading go outside and experience the world that's on the other side of the door he

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claimed that he very rarely wrote indoors he used to go for a walk

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poetry on foot come home having memorized it and then dictate it to his sister

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i don't completely believe him because i think this is a heck of a lot to memorize

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while you're doing a country walk but i think he'd have got a lot of it i think the gist of his lines came

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and of course when you think of it if the idea of words with taking his poetry for a walk makes sense because

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the walk itself puts that underlying iambic beat underneath underneath the

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words there's a lovely bit where he says so go outside experience the spring blah blah

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blah all the great hippie stuff that wordsworth was so good at and one of my

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favorite lines he says you know one moment now may give us more than 50 years of reason

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our minds shall drink at every poor the spirit of the season for wordsworth that

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was really important to loosen up our brain to stop overthinking reasoning and

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to feel and simply to be this idea one moment now may give us

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more than 50 years of reason a line itself of course that has this wonderful iambic beat going through it

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one moment one moment now may give us more than 50 years of reason

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beth is also very interested in the sounds around him that he claims

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uh were part of his went into as it were his poetic soul part of the music of his growing up and

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i guess that's what i'm i was asking you at the start i'd be very interested to know some of the sounds and rhythms that

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are part of your own sort of growing up the prelude also has this this notice of

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this mention of a river a stream that was at the bottom of wordsworth's garden when he was a toddler

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and he said and he's he he's he he begins uh thinking in the preliminary he wants to

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be a poet and he's hoping that his childhood was not a waste of time that everything was preparing him

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to be a poet and he says was it for this that one

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the fairest of all rivers loved to blend his murmurs with my

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nurse's song and from his older shades and rocky falls and from his fords and shadows

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sent a voice that flowed along my g dreams for wordsworth the natural sounds that

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he grew up with went into his subconscious self

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sent a voice that flowed along my dreams they formed the sort of undercurrent of

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rhythm and music that he has in his mind and that we all have he claims

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in his minds i love this idea and i guess being a drummer

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i've often thought of the sounds that i grew up with

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and that center voice that flowed along my dreams

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unfortunately i didn't grow up with a lovely river at the bottom of my garden but i did used to really love

18:56

um and

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one rhythm i don't know if any of you at all familiar hopefully this will work um any of you

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might have watched cambric green when you were kids and i loved when i was a

19:13

toddler one of the most fantastic sounds that came once a week was the sound of windy miller's windmill this little guy

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with a with a blue frock amazingly had this fantastic rhythmical windmill

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that sounded like this i hope

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work okay

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oh this is colli's mill

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do you know who lives here yes windy miller breaks down

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one of those wonderful sounds that just takes me right back to my early years it sounds

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it's a wonderful bunch of sounds there is actually the guitarist freddie phillips who was very

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good at making unusual noises it sounds like he's twanging a ruler or scraping something to make that wonderful

20:14

rhythmical loop that went under that record many of you might be familiar with that it's one of my formative

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noises another noise i used to love well enough of windy mirror hopefully

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this will work um no don't want that yeah

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thinking of formative rhythms rhythms that are that are around us another one i don't know about you that always can

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send me into a a trance and kind of sus and and it can be very very comforting

20:48

windscreen ripers inside a car on a rainy day i love the sound of it um

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always have done work let me just let me get a bit of

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windscreen wiper sound i love youtube because youtube's full of people who have actually

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um

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[Music]

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um

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the words with river but another sound i loved um was my mother's um bendix drs washing

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machine when it was on the full spin cycle nothing like for me the sound of

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an excited washing machine almost has a sexual uh climactic build up that the

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near it gets to the end of the cycle we had a very rattly washing machine

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and um and again i used to i don't know about if everybody done this but i used to i used to imagine

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making making music to it i used to imagine some kind of musical

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musical music coming out of the washing machine i'm trying to find a good bit of the recording where it's really going at

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it um but it's kind of swashing again

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ah there we go yeah

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quite musical in many ways um perhaps another sound that i i i loved

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and i still love and perhaps we all love perhaps we go to the sea not just to see it

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but to hear it um i've always enjoyed especially when

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there's and the tide is rushing in and rushing

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out and you've got these wonderful grasping noises

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return up the high strand again and then again

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associates

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rhythm that made me want to be a drummer that really made me listen every year in our town there was a carnival

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and which meant there was a marching band these guys um i didn't know they were soldiers at all i just i

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really basically thought this is what they did all the time for a living they were drummers and they wore these funny fluffy hats but god bless them every

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year they came to our town marched through the street and there was the guy with the big bass drum

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and that was one of the highlights of my year when that guy you'd hear him coming in the distance

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gradually getting nearer and nearer and

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that was wonderful when it came right past me and the beats of the drum

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you know always [Music]

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when i was a kid and i got my first drum of course i thought you have to have a fluffy hat to go with it because i

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thought all drummers obviously wear fluffy hats so i wanted a drum my grandmother bought me this drum it's

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my first proper drum and what i started off with i used to bash biscuit tins and then she got me this one so and i asked

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my mum if i could have her fluffy hat so that i could be a proper drummer so there's me i think i must be about

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three or four there and and then later of course i progressed i got the full kit i became a proper marching drummer

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there with my with my black with my with my my busby on top but i really felt that

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that was the dream job and that's what i was going to do

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of course then i was fortunate to have grown up in a household where my sisters had a lot of

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records and my eldest sister of course had the beatles records ringo is a hugely important drummer a

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hugely important sound in my house especially i think because

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um he always used to he was he used to hit him hard he used to hit the drums hard

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if any of you listen to the beatles records starting from their early ones and moving through to the end

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you will also notice that ringo as a drummer gets better at it the the more as the as the beatles

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progress as a band he gets better at it he hits them he starts to experiment with different

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rhythms what was also great about watching the beatles as well

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my sister went to see the beatles a few times because i only got to see them on film but watching the beatles ringo really

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loved playing the drums he was dressed in a in a it was odd to

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see him in a in a tie jacket and shirt he looked like a bank clerk who's just stepped out the bank

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and walked behind a pair of drums he doesn't look like a drummer but he absolutely

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always loved it of course he had lots of reasons to be happy he just joined the

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most successful band of all time and all he had to do was play the drums which frankly is really easy

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um so so this he has good reasons to smile but whenever i see ringo drummond

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it i always feel great because he's having a whale of a time um

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[Music]

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[Music]

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[Music] by the time when i was about seven and i got to abbey road one started to hear

28:00

ringo doing really extraordinary stuff on the drums he really progressed he had more confidence he became more serious

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and he practiced it he'd honed his skill so for example this very famous drum break on the end which comes on the

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beatles the beatles final album abbey road which is just so thrilling when i was a

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kid almost as thrilling as reading wordsworth

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[Music]

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oh yeah all right [Music]

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[Music]

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progressed so exciting of course about rhythms is

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we need rhythms in our life we need the washing machine the windscreen wipers

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the beach this reassuring rhythms rhythms that make us know what's happening next when

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the tide comes in we know it's going to go out and come back again we these i think rhythm is something that builds it

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can be deeply reassuring to us because it builds predictable patterns

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but we also need rhythms to be unpredictable and to shake up time

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and to do things where we don't quite know where they're going

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this is a lovely beat that comes that really blew my mind as a kid it still does at the st from the beatles track um

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tomorrow never knows where ringo is just doing something completely different

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and again john lennon's opening line turn off your mind relax

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could have kind of been written by wordsworth add a pinch [Music]

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[Music] [Applause] [Music]

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[Applause] [Music]

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it's got a fantastic offbeat which continually makes you think

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and it it does something to that to the whole melody of the song

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it completely makes the song less predictable more edgy more unusual so ringo was a great drummer and

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i i also loved him um i won't talk about stravinsky today but another great composer i think he

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really played around another composer i love now laura mvula

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a great singer who who uses rhythm so well in her records i i won't have time to show you all of

31:27

these but i love songs that have a kind of an unusual rhythmic backdrop to them

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so um rhythms i think come from the world that we grow up with with the

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sounds that we grow up with with the music that's on our house and from the natural rhythms that are that are around

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us and so when we actually come to play music as adults in a sense we're taking

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those rhythms through with us and we're turning them into a kind of music

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um most drummers perhaps in the 60s

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20s 80s as i was growing up were men it was always seen as a men's

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thing but actually some of the best rhythms ones the best drummers the ones who had a great deal of influence upon me i need

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to point out are women um at the moment i'm reading tracy thorne's

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book my rock and roll friend which she talks about the drummer from the go-betweens lindy morrison

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she says lindy finds the drums appealingly basic and primitive

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she realizes she can just sit down and bang the bloody things and it's physical it's active there's

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nothing gentle about being a drummer nothing passive yet the concentration required focuses the mind

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there's a meditative trance-like quality about settling into the

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repetitive groove and the noise inside your head is momentarily silenced

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for an obsessive personality type like lindy the drums are both exciting

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and soothing um

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another that's come out recently or a few years ago actually by elaine redmond when the

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drummers were women and lin actually claims that first drummers the most important drummers were women and that

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there's so many statues ancient arts from ancient greece of women holding these small frame drums

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and lynne redmond has herself quite evangelistically set up loads of frame drumming groups to teach women and

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to reclaim the art of frame drumming that's a really great book when drummers were women

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she claimed drummers actually at the start were women especially they were the people that

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were accompanying most important spiritual sacred rights in the ancient world

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and those women were the ones who provided the beat so that's quite a nice book some of you might want to trace up

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when the drummers were women the women drummers i love lindy morrison from the go-betweens

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um that's uh honey lantry from the honeycombs if you ever listen to the

34:15

song have i the right by the honeycombs there's a wonderful bass drum pounding through there which she recorded in a

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bathroom it's great um karen carpenter from the carpenters is a

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beautiful very natural drummer and perhaps my famous my favorite drama

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sheila e um with prince um i i think more and more uh now it's

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becoming i know in schools i've noticed i haven't been a teacher there's much more girls that are going back they're

34:45

taking up drumming and claiming it for their own which is really good really good

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[Music]

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what the heck she was doing there it's incredible um so frame drumming were some of the earliest

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drums actually they think they are made out of grain sifts you know those sifts that we

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use great big tools that we use to sit grains you put a skin on them and you've got got a drum there are hand drums

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um why is this literary person banging on banging on about drums when

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hey very few of us have actually got any drums and b uh we can't do it anyway

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well actually i'd claim that to have rhythm into your life to have a go at rhythm even to dance it's really quite

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important it can be a wonderful thing for your state of mind very relaxing

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almost trance and duty and meditative you go into a kind of a different space as many of you will know when you're

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locked in to music um so i've often said if you have a heart

36:09

inside you then you are a drummer at heart

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um and i guess i was going to finish

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uh i won't i won't talk about rhythmical entrainment so what i one thing i wanted to talk to

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this talk really was try to encourage you um many many of us i guess over lock

36:32

down and in our lives or at home and there haven't been many dances or

36:39

concerts to go to but if you do find yourself alone in the

36:44

house um and that's when you won't be so so self-conscious it can be and you

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don't consider yourself a musical person raid the kitchen cupboards and see what you can find and play along

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to music and it can be a really lovely thing to do one of my favorite drums

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stay there a minute

37:11

i'll stop the share water cooler refill bottles

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have you ever got any of these at home they sound really good i'll do a bit of drumming for you now

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um these don't cost anything and if you you know some some hotels they have too many of

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them very easy to get hold of i'll do a bit of drumming for you from a water cooler refill i hope you can hear this okay

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[Music]

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[Music]

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um find things that make quite a nice noise um also of

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course by the day i'm in a rock band here i am on my kitchen

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[Music]

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um so yeah there is a history of literary people being into music i know that the the the

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literary critic james wood is a very good finger drummer if you ever go on youtube and find james wood doing his

38:39

finger drumming he's extremely good at it and i think it's because there is this

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people who are there is this link as i've said between language

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and our physical self our need to dance perhaps literature is often seen as

38:59

quite a somber passive indoor moody thing to do but there's a physical

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side to it that's to do with our with the physicality of our language and the heartbeat that's pounding through us

39:12

karl marx once said that language itself is agitated layers of air that our mouth

39:18

is actually a mini drum kit our tongue and our teeth are clattering about

39:23

forming sounds interacting with the air and putting out the the rhythms that is

39:30

is our language um i'm going to um

39:36

i shall finish in a tip with just a bit of conga drumming for you but i will also

39:41

end with this short poem by tennyson this is a section that comes from

39:47

immemorium in which tennyson is long tennyson's long poem about death

39:52

in which he wonders um why do i write in such a rhythmical way

39:58

why why why it is also the rhythms of poetry the rhythms of our language

40:04

kind of help him to get through these very difficult thoughts and ideas

40:11

he says there's a use in measured language a sad mechanic exercise like dull

40:16

narcotics numbing pain and i think the rhythm in poetry does

40:22

also have that effect especially if you want to write about a difficult painful

40:29

uh emotional subject like the loss of someone that you love if you write

40:35

using rhythms in poetry it it well it has i think it can help you to get

40:42

through the very very difficult subjects tennyson writes i sometimes hold it half

40:48

a sin to put in words the grief i feel for words like nature half reveal

40:55

and half conceal the soul within but for the unquiet heart and brain

41:01

a use in measured language lies the sad mechanic exercise

41:08

like dull narcotics numbing pain in words like weeds or rap mura

41:15

like causes clothes against the cold but that large grief which these unfold

41:21

is given an outline and no more i'm going to do i'm going to end with a

41:27

little bit of drumming um i know you've been extremely great listening to me

41:33

rambling about rhythms and drums in my life for the importance of rhythm i'll do a little bit of iambic drumming

41:39

at the end um for your own entertainment and then i'll take some questions so a

41:45

little bit short burst of of my own rhythmical explorations don't go away

41:54

[Music]

42:32

i usually kind of talk about dickens but i thought this would be a change anyhow thank you

42:43

i've got uh three coming up um two uh are pretty you know i've got a course on

42:50

one of my favorite writers john berger um some of you might have heard of john bergey did a very important series about

42:57

art criticism radical theory called ways of seeing in the 1970s

43:02

he died a few years ago a wonderful philosophical thoughtful

43:08

novelist and poet art critic john burgess such an important figure he

43:14

used to also actually teach the wa i'm doing a course on his work starting in january

43:20

i'm also doing a course on herman melville and moby dick six weeks

43:27

uh of of moby dick someone wrote asked once wrote to me and said we can't do moby dick in six weeks it's too big

43:33

of course we can't we can do sort of highlights we can hopefully you will

43:39

have time to read it all over three weeks so i'm doing herman melville and more of a performance-based one on the

43:45

first of december i'm giving a talk uh christmas carol out loud which is about this what we discover

43:53

about dickens's use of language when we read him out loud really interested in the spoken voice

44:00

and how what i recite christmas carol regularly every christmas

44:05

and i want to talk about the experience of reading dickens and also dickens's

44:11

life as a performer and reciter of his own work so how important recitation is in

44:17

literature so that's christmas carol out loud 1st of december

44:22

7 pm

Lecture

How we connect, act and innovate together

Join author David Price OBE as he looks at how we as a society can become more innovative.

What makes collaboration so powerful? How do groups of people—whether small teams or entire communities—come together to create change, solve problems, and spark innovation?

In this inspiring lecture, we’ll explore the science and stories behind collective action and creativity. Drawing from psychology, sociology, and real-world examples, The Power of Us unpacks how our connections fuel progress and how we can harness the potential of collaboration to achieve extraordinary outcomes.

Whether you’re a leader, innovator, or simply curious about the magic of teamwork, this talk will leave you with fresh insights and practical tools to strengthen your impact through the power of "us." Don't miss it!

Video transcript

0:00

is the camera off to do so and finally david i think it's over to

0:05

you thank you well thanks fiona and um good evening

0:10

everybody um uh my name's david price and i'm really

0:16

thrilled to be doing this not least because i've always been a big fan

0:25

of wa um in fact um go up to various pubs around cheatham hill in north

0:30

manchester which isn't the most salubrious part of the country um and we would uh we we did some courses in pubs

0:38

so that was that was a long time ago that must be about 30 35 years ago i thought i'd just give you an idea

0:45

because these events are so strange in some ways i thought i'd just let you see where i am

0:51

um i'm um i this is i live in the thriving

0:56

metropolis of north rigdon which uh that big rock you can see in the middle of

1:01

the screen hopefully if you've pinned um my screen i haven't i should have done

1:06

let me just do that um if you do that it'll you the picture will be a little bit bigger and that's

1:13

arms clip crag that you see in the middle of the the picture and um we live in this lovely village it's kind of

1:19

squashed between leeds and and harrogate but as you can probably gather from the accent um i come from a bit further

1:25

north originally um so what i want to do is to

1:31

talk you through um the book uh power of us um

1:36

which is still available on amazon if you if you feel sufficiently interested to to go ahead and buy it um there was a

1:43

really cheap deal on a couple of months ago but i'm afraid that's ended now um

1:48

but if i share the screen i've got um a few things to to show you from the book but

1:56

also from the agency now which is sprung up uh outside the book so i'm actually

2:01

gonna start with a um a little promotional video which gives you a flavor of the book so if i share the

2:08

screen now you should be able to see it yeah good

2:16

let me know if you can't hear this [Music]

2:55

do [Music]

3:08

so

3:22

so [Music]

3:52

well there's the first technical hitch why is that not

3:58

gone ah there we go no

4:04

there we go um so the the the book really came about as a

4:10

result of a previous book that i wrote which as fiona said was called open

4:16

and i didn't realize that at the time but there is a kind of logical sequence behind the two um you've probably not

4:22

heard of either of them so i'll just very very briefly um give you the the one minute uh digest

4:29

open really was written let's say end of 2013 and

4:34

i wrote it because what what i'd seen was this phenomenal rise in social learning the thing that

4:41

we do now in fact um the way in which people are sharing information helping one another and and taking more

4:48

control of their lives by doing so you know um most of us are old enough to remember when we used to go into travel

4:55

agents to book a hole is now we kind of well those of us who ever get a holiday or

5:01

allowed out the country we we do it ourselves um and and technology's had a

5:06

big impact on that but this was at the dawning of social media when everybody was nice on social media

5:14

um of course events in between have have seen a somewhat um

5:19

reversion to the norm but essentially what i was seeing was that our organizations and particularly

5:26

formal learning because my background is in education that i felt formal learning had to take

5:32

this seriously and had to try to incorporate the idea of social and and

5:37

peer-to-peer learning within the way in which um formal learning is being delivered

5:43

so then there was a um i got sick there was a period of about three years where i didn't

5:49

do that much uh and then i started thinking about well what am i going to do next what's a follow-up because i had

5:56

a publishing deal as fiona said with thread and it seemed to me that what had happened

6:03

that i was starting to see was a kind of follow-on from auburn in terms of if we

6:09

were sharing what we knew which is essentially what open was about how we how we share that and how

6:16

knowledge has become open what i was fascinated about was what are we going to do with that are we just going to

6:22

share videos of cats playing the piano or is it going to get a bit more serious than that and you know of course it did

6:29

as as we'll come to see um i finished writing the power goes when i was in australia

6:35

um and i took this photograph um about two weeks before we then had to leave

6:41

the country in a hurry uh you can probably guess why i saw people fighting over toilet rolls

6:47

um because this was uh i finished the book in february of

6:53

uh 2019 sorry 2020 and um

7:00

and within two weeks we had to leave australia because of course the pandemic

7:05

was starting to hit and the full significance of the pandemic meant that on the journey back um which was really

7:12

interesting my wife and i australia wasn't even though they were fighting over toilet rolls they weren't really taking the pandemic very

7:18

seriously and we stopped at the middle east it was people were wearing masks by the time we

7:25

got to manchester airport it was like the ghost town and we said this is clearly going to be a big deal and so i

7:32

realized that i'd have to rewrite the book in light of what what what i saw at

7:38

the start of that pandemic and i gave a talk in in real life last week

7:43

and i was just saying to people how there hasn't really been an event like

7:48

this in any of our lives no matter how old we are because even if uh even in some places in the in during

7:56

the second world war you weren't really affected by it with the exception of maybe a couple of pacific islands tiny

8:02

pacific islands you know covert 19 has has had an impact on every man woman and

8:10

child in the world and that's that's quite a thing to to get your head around

8:16

but i said to the publishers listen i'm sorry i'm gonna have to rewrite it and they said well that's

8:22

fine but the the date of publication can't change that's august so you've got three weeks

8:27

to rewrite it um and yeah it was three weeks without a great deal of sleep but i'm glad that i

8:33

did because the kind of things i was seeing in the research program covet will kind

8:39

of amplified and accelerated um after uh and and during covert i

8:45

shouldn't say after because we're still living with it um the phrase i use and i'll be using a

8:51

lot of the illustrations from the book um a young brilliant illustrator called john biggs did these i should give him

8:58

credit but the phrase i use in the book is communities around performing bureaucracies

9:04

and the book starts with the story of a young guy a 17 year old

9:10

from um seoul in south korea and this young man that you can see whose name is avi schiffman

9:17

and navi um was 17 at the time he's now uh 19 i think

9:24

and he stayed up for three days and three nights because where he lived which is in seattle on the west coast of

9:30

america he could not find a covert dragon website so he just thought well i'll do it i'll do one myself

9:37

and so he put this cover tracking website together and this was at the time i don't know if you remember it but

9:43

it was at the time when boris johnson was telling everybody that we were going to have a world beating up

9:49

and we trialed it out on the poor folk of the isle of wight and then they realized that it actually wouldn't work on

9:56

iphones or android phones so this world beating up just fell apart meanwhile 17 year old kid had created

10:03

the world's most authoritative source of data around covert anthony fauci said it

10:09

was the most um uh the site he looked to first when he needed to get up-to-date information and

10:15

avi won the the webby person of the year which is like oscars for web designers

10:21

um so this this phrase communities are outperforming bureaucracies we saw this

10:27

writ large at the start of the pandemic um and it kind of uh underlined the overall

10:36

message in the book which is i believe that we're now in an era of what i call people-powered innovation i'll get into

10:43

what that means in a moment and i actually think that beyond this

10:48

pandemic when it finally does come to an end we will we will still see the impact of that

10:55

people-powered innovation for reasons that i'll i'll explain in a moment this

11:00

movement if you like is being driven by people that are known as user innovators

11:05

eric von hibbel um from mit first coin this phrase but it's essentially um

11:12

people who who make things themselves or people who take existing products and services and

11:18

think well i can do that better um but they're not they're not purely

11:24

customers they're not just consumers of goods or services and they're they're probably one of the most undervalued

11:31

sectors of society because over 53 percent of all new products and services

11:37

are created by these user innovators not the producers you know the the companies

11:43

themselves and what i was seeing was that this phenomenon was starting to

11:48

to make itself evident um steve flowers an academic from um kent university has

11:53

described it as the invisible industrial revolution which is kind of hiding in plain sight

12:00

but what i saw was that producers were were at best kind of tolerating it um

12:06

and at worst ignoring it and i i as i say in the book i think that's a big mistake

12:11

i want to give you start with a a kind of practical example of what that might look like and this is a bit left field

12:18

so bear with me so i think was about 1853

12:24

there was a restaurant in america called half moon lake house um and the chief

12:31

cook there was this guy that you see um george crumb african-american

12:37

it being black history month i thought i'd start with some actual black history um not that well-known story

12:44

anyway this this early evening this tired businessman walks in

12:50

and he's had a long day he's been selling stuff to people and he just wants an early dinner so he

12:55

orders his main meal and then he asks for um some potatoes on the side and he said

13:01

i'd like them in the french style at that point um the french would were

13:08

doing things with potatoes like gratandorf and juan who do doing various things with it

13:14

but it was considered you know in america was considered the the the height of sheik george crump didn't even know what that

13:20

meant but he decided that he'd eat slightly uh thinly sliced these potatoes

13:26

and then lightly fry them they were taken out the businessman said i'm i'm not eating that they're all soggy um

13:34

take them back make them thinner and make them crisper so

13:39

george crumb did did as he was respected he was actually quite a bad tempered chef was george

13:44

because when they came back again he thought right you've asked for it so he sliced them as thinly as he possibly

13:50

could threw them in the the fryer and then put him on the plate expecting the businessman to to explode

13:57

and he didn't he loved them and what what between them what they've done

14:03

is invented the potato chip um george crumb's big mistake was not

14:09

taking out a patent on that but but it but people started coming from all over to this uh restaurant

14:17

um and the potato chip had had been born it was actually called the saratoga chip because that's where the restaurant was

14:24

um and when i tell people the story i said who who actually invented the potato chip

14:30

was it the the the user innovator the businessman who who said i don't like the way this is

14:37

could be could you change it or was it the producer the reality is of course it was both and

14:42

that is the underlying message of my book that producers need to work with user innovators

14:49

so there's kind of three um ways that this can be done that we can see people powered

14:55

innovation what i was seeing was people who are advocating for new products and services

15:01

so if you remember the act up at the start of the hiv um pandemic the um act up

15:10

lobby group they weren't medics but but they they sure learned a huge amount of

15:15

scientific information and they were just demanding that there was a um a cocktail of treatment had to be

15:21

developed because people were dying in the thousands but but they were they were highly innovative in the way that

15:29

they forced the american government to start seriously funding what was then

15:34

known as the gay plague so that's one time then there are people who hack existing products and services you know

15:41

we we've probably all done this and not really thought about it we've taken something and think oh i could get it

15:47

doesn't quite work it's really irritating i'm going to do this and make it suit my purposes that's what happens

15:54

most of the time but there are those men and women in sheds who will create something from scratch

16:00

now these user innovators quite often become what i call producers and that is

16:05

a fascinating transition to see what happens and i'll talk about some of that in a moment but in a sense the reason

16:12

why i think this second book led on from the first one was that the first one was about sharing

16:17

what we knew then we actually saw um that that shouldn't have been then we um started

16:23

sharing what we owned um before we got a romanian rescue dog my wife used to go on a website called

16:30

share my doggy and she'd take dogs out for a walk so it was literally everything that we own could be shared

16:37

our houses through airbnb you know car rentals cost parking spaces

16:42

you name it but then i thought the interesting thing is this growth of um sharing what we

16:49

create these these these user innovators and it led to what mark carney the former governor of the bank of england

16:56

called the artisanal economy nobody really understood what he was talking about in terms of the artisanal

17:02

economy but really what he was saying was these days you can reach an audience if you make

17:09

something you can find an audience anywhere in the world so you just have to if if your invention

17:15

whether it's cupcakes or whether it's sourdough bread whatever it is

17:20

you will be able to develop that and find an audience for it

17:25

if it's good enough what i think's been fascinating of course about corvod is that

17:31

millions literally millions of people around the world have joined this artisanal economy um and we'll get onto

17:38

some of the reasons behind that what i was speculating on the book because bear in mind it was largely

17:44

written before um corvid was whether we'd see a fourth stage which was an era

17:49

of what i call cooperative production so taking the things that we make but at

17:55

scale um and the the truth was covered showed that that's

18:01

exactly what was possible and it was also made possible when you think about that what's historically been the two

18:08

blocks to um to this people-powered innovation the first has always been that you have a

18:14

good idea but you don't have access to the means of production you can't go into production with it that's why you

18:20

have to take it to one of the producers but now with 3d printers costing you know 400 a time

18:28

pretty much anybody can do that and the other thing that was stopping people was access to capital

18:33

but but now you've got peer-to-peer lending services and like i say we saw this

18:39

at scale in the pandemic i'll give you a couple of examples in a moment but what i was seeing was a number of

18:46

possible responses it seems to me that producers and by producers they also include governments

18:52

and local authorities because they are providing services they might try to stop

18:58

this people-powered innovation or they might try and ignore it and just hope it goes away

19:04

but my recommendation is that they should work with it they should actually embrace it and try and understand the

19:11

mindset of these user innovators because the it is a different mindset give you an example

19:17

person that you see in the screen here is tim omar tim's an i.t consultant but he also has

19:23

type 2 diabetes because he's a bit of a nerd he looked around and he wanted to have continuous

19:29

data about his glucose levels couldn't find anything or if it was available it was prohibitively expensive

19:36

tim thought well how hard can this be so he went on ebay and bought a secondhand

19:42

continuous glucose monitor um but then in a you can see he's got a

19:47

tic tac box there in his hand he then wrote some code which meant that his mobile phone could be showing him what

19:54

his glucose levels were like at any point at any time tim then shared that freely the designs

20:01

for this with a group called night scout who is a global that's a global group of concerned parents whose kids have got um

20:08

diabetes and they have not been able to have sleepovers they can't

20:14

leave their parents site because they didn't know if they were going to go into a coma or not these parents

20:20

said well this is fantastic we can make our own so they did

20:25

and they their hashtag slogan is we are not waiting and i think that kind of gets to

20:32

the the mindset of these user innovators if they can do it then why shouldn't

20:38

they do it and of course the big pharmaceutical companies were developing these things

20:43

tim's now working on an artificial pancreas system and there's a kind of race between these kind of hackers

20:50

whether they'll get there first or the big pharmaceuticals will so that that gives you a little flavor of the kind of

20:55

ways in which this is happening all around us but the mindsets are very different when

21:00

you start off as a user innovator bear in mind many do end up being producers

21:06

you're kind of making the most of what you have you know tim tim put the thing in a tic tac box it was all he needed

21:12

and you want to learn about this stuff quickly you want to learn from other people it's about finding community and

21:19

cooperation once you've developed that producer mindset if you've got a new innovation

21:24

it's about what where's the market are we going to get a return on the investment you know we we need to know that we're going to have predictable

21:30

results user innovators know that half the time it's not going to work you know everything's in beta

21:35

um and they are primarily about satisfying shareholder needs not the needs of the community

21:42

and and thus they they often um are loggerheads with one another

21:48

so one of the most famous examples of people who started off with that user innovator mindset but then quickly

21:55

shifted is the story in um the homebrew computing club and this is a photograph

22:01

from the very first meeting that they had it was around about 1976 in a place that later became known as silicon

22:08

valley but they were in a university lecture hall um and you can see that this was their

22:13

mission statement our goal is to give all the concrete practical help in constructing homebrew equipment by that

22:19

they mean they were working on the world's first computer um young people often find it incredulous

22:25

that there was a time when you couldn't actually buy a computer you had to make your own so they were saying if you have any

22:31

trouble it doesn't matter because their principle was it's open source all information should

22:36

be shared freely and of course it was and two of the people who attended that were the two steves the wozniak and jobs

22:44

who went to these early sessions and this is a quote from steve wozniak he said that

22:50

night the image of the apple one popped into my head and i knew that i'd have my own useful computer for basically no

22:56

money because essentially he was riding on the ideas of other people but of

23:02

course what happened with apple was the moment it went into production the shutters came down they closed the

23:09

code to make sure nobody could do it they they set up the um app store to make sure that people

23:16

couldn't write their own apps without their um them taking a cut essentially

23:23

so they they developed a very closed producer mindset and they've been cases of this uh let's

23:30

start with the one at the bottom which is um ikea hackers this is you can still

23:35

go on this website if you like but here's a group of people from um they're all around the world there's about a hundred thousand of them and they take

23:42

ikea furniture but they throw away that little leaflet that you know tells you what to do how to assemble it and

23:47

they're just thinking well what can we do with this and to create all kinds of weird and wonderful things with it take

23:52

photographs put them up on the website well ikea found out about it and they were furious because you know they said

23:58

we spend a lot of money making those those leaflets as simple as possible to

24:04

understand and we want to make sure that it always looks the same so you've got to cease and desist what you're doing

24:10

and the ikea hacker said well okay we can do but really is that what you want us to do because we can we can go

24:15

anywhere we can get anybody's furniture and habit fortunately for ikea they realized yeah

24:22

maybe maybe we should try and work with you and so they turned part of their website over to ikea hackers they've now

24:29

brought out the first range of hackable furniture kodak everybody knows kodak no longer

24:35

exists and one of the reasons why they no longer exist is one of their own employees invented the digital camera and that's

24:43

it on the left it's it doesn't exactly fit in your pocket but he took it along to the board and

24:50

they laughed and said there is no way we're going to support this because people will never want to look at

24:55

photographs on a screen they're always going to want them printed off so they

25:00

completely had lost the user mindset and of course they're now no longer in

25:07

business similarly myspace some of you might remember myspace it was a bunch of

25:12

computer uh sorry bunch of amateur musicians who used to put their songs up on this

25:18

website and share them they were looking to get signed by regular companies a huge global community rupert murdoch

25:26

found out about it and bought it out for 580 million dollars

25:31

and within a matter of weeks all of those people who'd been using that site because they didn't subscribe to

25:37

murdoch's values they just said well we'll we'll go somewhere else and and they took the music elsewhere

25:45

billabong another case in point two surfers who used to make surfboards and then once they started making lots of

25:52

money it became a kind of lifestyle they lost contact with

25:57

their founding community and and they're no longer in business so if you

26:03

don't get it right things can go badly wrong what we saw in um in the pandemic or

26:11

something it's an ugly phrase but it it's called cosmologism and i think we're going to see

26:16

a lot more of this now what it means essentially is the the cosmo part stands for cosmopolitan and

26:23

that is what used to be scarce which was ideas can be

26:29

freely shared around the world the local part of this is that you then

26:36

in order to to be sustainable you should create these things from that shared knowledge

26:42

locally and and and that's what we saw writ large during the pandemic so this young

26:48

man on the left stephen juan macorda a presidential prize because he he built

26:54

a hands-free um sanitized dispenser is in kenya

26:59

one in the middle was invisible hand some young people who delivered meals right at the start of

27:05

the pandemic that delivered over a million dollars worth of meals to vulnerable people

27:10

um they got that idea from the the facebook groups that were happening all around the world over a

27:16

thousand facebook groups in the first two weeks of the pandemic and then the the man on the right is

27:23

matt botel who um he used to make uh

27:28

these prosthetic limbs you can see one on this little girl that's photographed with him um and he can he can produce

27:35

them for about a dollar um but then he would send them across to other countries and he thought well this

27:41

is crazy i'll just make the um the designs for these available and now that

27:47

people can get access to 3d printers they can produce them locally and and that's what he did and when the pandemic

27:54

happened he he suddenly kind of turned on a sixpence and said well we'll do that with face shields and and

28:00

that's one of the reasons why we saw face shields being made by ordinary people when people like matt hancock

28:06

were buying them from turkey you know ten years out of date so

28:11

coming out of corbett it seems to me we've got a challenge in our organizations

28:16

this reevaluation thing is is real 75 of all brits

28:23

during this past 12 months have considered either quitting the job

28:28

selling the house or leaving the partner so there's a great deal of introspection going on the resignation wave is a thing

28:35

four million americans every year sorry every month since april have quit

28:41

the jobs and are continuing to do so so i think when we look at what i call the power of

28:48

us and people powered innovation it's really about how we can tell a story

28:54

about ourselves and i believe this the opportunity for this lies in a in a

29:00

rejuvenated concept of community um

29:05

i'm going to skip this one but what i was going to play was a little video of um the the ceo of wd-40 great

29:13

guy called gary ridge wonderful leader because i think he is showing the kind of leadership that we

29:19

now need things have changed dramatically in the workplace and

29:26

let's move on and what we're seeing is that leaders are are no longer in charge

29:33

their people are um because of this resignation wave

29:38

for perhaps the first time in in maybe 40 or 50 years people have actually got control over

29:45

where they work and their labor show outages and of course an alcohol that's made worse by brexit but it is a global

29:51

thing the labor shortages are meaning that leaders have got to adopt a different stance now

29:58

ally that with the impact of covid and what i'm seeing from organizations

30:03

in our agency works with a lot of organizations what i'm saying is

30:08

leaders have to think very carefully about the things that they've often taken for granted like work-life balance where

30:15

you're going to work from um this conference that i was at last week everybody in the room said that

30:21

they were working from home and they preferred it they didn't want to go back in the office and their employer was

30:27

like gary ridge they're not insisting largely some people are obviously

30:32

um you have to be on site but but many many employers are now saying well if you can work from home you've proven

30:37

that we can do it so if if it makes you feel happier do it and that way they're hanging on to

30:43

talent but i think one of the other things that's happened as a result of covert

30:49

is that we were already starting to see the growth of social movements

30:55

but during this period of the last 10 years we've seen more social movements in the

31:02

last 10 years spring up than in the previous century and i don't think this is coincidental i

31:09

think this is part of this people-powered innovation people realizing the power of us

31:15

i come from gerald everybody knows jarrod was famous for one thing which is the gerald marches

31:21

that was a social movement it failed spectacularly because it couldn't get

31:26

its um what it wandered out of i mean frankly my forebearers just just wanted a job

31:33

there was 95 unemployment in general um but it was it was an example of a

31:38

social movement that failed occupy had a great slogan we are you know within 99

31:45

but they didn't have any uh end goal whereas what we've seen with black lives

31:51

matter and me too and to a certain extent extinction rebellion and and whatever you might

31:57

think of them insulated britain they are much more savvy at getting their message across so they are starting to think

32:04

like corporates in terms of marketing how you get that message across to people but on the other side of the coin

32:12

we're seeing a lot of corporates who are now starting to think more like social movements

32:19

some people might say that nike trading on colin kaepernick who famously

32:24

took the knee um and started essentially started the the black lives matter movement

32:31

that that people are saying well they're just riding on the back of that but they have they have actually funded

32:37

a great deal of um work within uh black lives matter perhaps a less contentious

32:42

example is uh yvonne and melinda shoenard who you see in this illustration who are the founders of

32:48

patagonia the outdoor clothing company yvonne is one of those rare user

32:54

innovators who started making climbing equipment because he wasn't satisfied with the stuff that he was buying pretty

33:01

soon all his friends wanted him to make them and he became a producer but he kept that user innovator mindset

33:09

part of it is because he recognized that he had to keep the support of that

33:15

community and he had to stay close to that community so from day one patagonia always had a very

33:24

strong social purpose they're still incidentally taking donald trump to court um over his attempt to um to

33:33

put oil rigs in some of the national parks but but if you if you follow patagonia you'll

33:39

know that half of their time is spent social campaigning not just making stuff so we're seeing

33:46

this merging coming together however what we're also seeing is that those

33:52

people who do kind of try to trade on that can get it spectacularly wrong

33:58

and when they do that they will incur the wrath of their community so one of the

34:05

case studies in the book is brew dog some of you will know them uh i discovered their beers one night and

34:11

probably had more than i should have done and discovered that they had a community of then it was about uh

34:18

fifty thousand what they call equity punks which were people who like what they stood for you know they've got a

34:23

very strong stance on sustainability and and you essentially

34:29

put money in it's not a float on the stock market so i was one of those equity punks and and

34:35

i interviewed james watt in the course of the book who's the ceo he calls himself the captain of the ship which i

34:41

think is quite revealing in terms of this model of leadership but he used to say to me our culture's great you know

34:47

we're happy being scrappy and we need to eat chaos for breakfast well be careful

34:52

what you wish for because some of you may have seen that over the summer um june

34:58

there was a group of disgruntled former employees who wrote an open letter to

35:03

james what describing the toxic culture that made them leave

35:09

brewdog and this was a pr disaster it was actually made worse because james

35:16

what immediate response was to go into work and then to ask those people in in

35:21

brewdog to write them an email to say how happy they were working for him

35:27

which of course was really a dumb thing to do because within 10 minutes that had been leaked too

35:33

so at which point you made it even worse and said that wasn't me it was the the communications team

35:38

you know i mean talk about throwing your people under the bus and eventually you have to own up and say yes um

35:44

we've got the culture wrong we need to do something about it what's since emerged is that the what's now 200 000

35:51

equity punks and i'm one of them they've had all our personal data

35:56

available for anybody to access and this has gone on for 18 months and they didn't tell us

36:02

so this is a company that prides itself on what it calls radical transparency but they weren't very transparent with

36:08

their people so you can imagine there's a i go on the forum quite regularly 200 000 people who built that company by

36:16

supporting it by suggesting beer recipes and now they're absolutely furious

36:21

to the point where brewdog was very proudly saying we're carbon negative that's all great and i still

36:28

respect the the organization i still think they do some good things but they were telling everybody that

36:34

they become b corp b cop is a status that you get when you're seen to be you know doing the right thing looking after

36:40

your people being sustainable and now that that b club status is under review

36:46

and they might well lose it so like i say

36:52

leaders are not the leaders anymore the the people are and to a to a growing extent

36:58

their customers and user innovators are too here's an example of when it works well

37:05

i think this is a little clip of a an organization and this ceo afshin rasheed

37:11

is so modest that i'm going to have to explain the the

37:17

huge innovation of what she's describing but i'll let her um talk about it first

37:28

well after you it's great to have you with us and really today's conversation is about learning

37:33

all we can from repowering what is it how does it work so repairing is a community energy

37:40

organization we help establish uh renewable energy projects that are owned by the community

37:48

and we also uh deliver services such as advice on energy efficiency tackling

37:53

fuel poverty we run training programs for young people um so ultimately our vision is

38:00

about creating a cleaner fairer energy system uh that serves the needs of the

38:05

people and the benefits go back into those local communities so the solar panels are community owned

38:13

so each of our projects are housed in a corp so it has an income stream it's a financially viable project um there are

38:20

people who've invested in the scheme get a three percent return on their investment and those who aren't able to

38:27

invest we're very mindful of this um so what we did was ensure that surplus profits also uh were ring fence

38:34

for community fund and in the last uh two years we've been working on uh

38:40

closing the gap so it's a about while we're generating this local um

38:45

solar energy it's about supplying it to the residents living in that block so that was the the loop that we wanted to

38:52

create uh everyone obviously has an allocation of how much electricity

38:59

solar electricity they can use during the day um and if they um

39:04

if they've got you know excess that they haven't used uh because they weren't uh at home they are able to uh sell that or

39:13

give it for donate it to uh their neighbors who are part of that scheme

39:18

what can the rest of us learn from how you approach the culture beneath all the sophistication and success what we adopt

39:25

is a co-productive approach or collaborative approach local people designing and

39:31

their own solutions and and leading in in in their project every step of the

39:37

way was local residents who were involved in the scheme local volunteers and that uh

39:43

that trust building as well as empowerment is absolutely key

39:48

so i would i would say the focus is really about um building trust being present in the

39:54

community but it's not like arms length it's not like a big corporate out there providing a service and someone who

40:01

doesn't care or someone who they can't relate to or someone who doesn't understand their problem

40:10

there we go come on

40:17

oh there we go um so what what i've sheen

40:22

is describing there is actually the world's first peer-to-peer energy trading platform

40:30

and it's running on blockchain technology and that the idea for that came about

40:36

from the residents so you've got young people in in social housing in london

40:42

who are trained up they create the solar panels they make and build them and

40:47

they've now taken that right through to the point where they were saying if we've got surplus why can't we give it to our family and neighbors

40:55

and and that has this is what i mean about that that community empowerment it doesn't mean

41:02

that that you can't get very high levels of innovation but watch what she describes this is a

41:08

kind of cultural map that we use to look at organizations what she's what she's describing is a huge sense of trust

41:16

deep engagement with a community a clear sense of purpose and meaning

41:22

and the autonomy that people need in order to be their their best selves

41:27

um i'm going to skip through this this next two because i'm rapidly running out of time and i know a couple of people

41:33

have got the hand up so just spend a couple of minutes just winding this up because i think that

41:40

the the most perhaps the most significant part of the power of us is the way in which these social

41:47

movements have become more effective better networked they get their message across very

41:54

um clearly they build a common purpose and they have a shared identity and they

41:59

are inclusive and as she's described there they're co-creative so it's not that the producers

42:05

take charge of this so so what we're seeing is are things like the greater tundberg

42:12

friday strikes for climate the they organized the largest public

42:18

demonstration ever and that's a bunch of school kids but they happen to be networked around the world

42:24

and we are probably going to see more and more of these kind of highly efficient

42:30

social movements and my final point really which is

42:37

partly my next book is is around this really and and it's interesting because

42:42

what you're seeing on that photograph on the right is some people some people who've recently got in touch with us because

42:48

um there's an organization in america called rosie the riveter which is this iconic poster that you saw

42:55

which is celebrating what what women did during the war um

43:00

in the in the war effort how they they were in the munitions factory and alongside that you know my father was

43:05

part of the greatest generation but i think what was interesting about

43:10

this the context that those um what was then young people were faced with was

43:16

one with that they would they had no option they had to be the greatest generation um and so

43:22

they rose to that challenge i think our young people could do the same because let's be honest

43:29

our young people are facing huge challenges not just in terms of you

43:35

know will they ever be able to get a pension will they ever be able to afford to buy their own house but frankly the climate

43:41

emergency if if people don't get a grip next week in glasgow then it we we could

43:46

be beyond the point of of no return and in the book i talk about

43:52

uh one of the founding fathers of america who who coined this phrase the

43:58

times have us in his in his pamphlet common sense he said it's not in numbers but in unity

44:04

that our great strength lies and in a sense i think that the time has found our young people

44:10

um and i i spend a lot of time with these young people and i'm always amazed at their

44:17

lack of cynicism but they're we're at a really critical point we're

44:23

seeing you know tons of books now coming about about the the erosion of democracy

44:28

i like this peter obama quote about boris johnson's disregard for for truth

44:35

but but the fact that bit by bit our um

44:41

parliamentary democracy system is being eroded and frankly i think our young people have lost all faith in it the

44:48

question is can they can they come up with something better because i think they probably will need to

44:55

over the next 20 30 years i'll not be around to see it but but the the wonderfully inventive i could i could

45:02

spend a whole hour talking about amazing young social entrepreneurs um

45:08

and i i take great heart when i look at what these young people are doing

45:15

and it seems to me that to to um

45:20

take that well-known phrase but but maybe just change it at the end there the art of the moral universe may be

45:26

long but it bends towards the power of us i'm conscious that people have got their hands up and i know that there's a few

45:32

questions so i'll hand you back for you on it and maybe we've got time for some uh comments and questions we certainly

45:40

do and anyone that's got their hand raised if you want to type your question into the chat

45:45

i will be able to to ask it on your behalf so let's make start then if you give me

45:52

one second no hold on right where shall we start

46:00

okay yeah well you'll need to type it into the chat um

46:08

um okay this is a question from stuart miller so asking so how do inventors and

46:15

entrepreneurs like richard artwright and george stevenson differ from the model

46:21

you're describing well that's really good examples i think of

46:29

the i don't think that they do you know and one of the the things i describe in some

46:34

detail in the book is the cooperative movement because it seems to me that you know what the rochdale pioneers did

46:41

was a fantastic example of the power of us they weren't looking to the external

46:47

world to to fix their social problems it was it was self-help and in the best

46:52

sense of the word i think some some people who i would venture to suggest that people

46:59

who are um that they're trying to help their community or their

47:04

close friends but i think when when it comes from that mindset and and yes you then become a

47:11

producer um you you you then are faced with

47:17

can you can you still remember what it was like can you still remember what their user needs were um

47:23

i talked a lot about thomas edison because in a sense he he built a fantastic culture

47:29

at the same time as reinventing the the 19th and 20th centuries so

47:34

finding those those like-minded communities it seems to me is at the heart of it but yes we've

47:41

always had people who've been user innovators and they've become producers

47:46

they don't all do what billabong and um uh

47:52

myspace did and and implode okay thanks for that i hope that answers

47:58

your your question um stuart um a question from brian williams um what do

48:03

you think of kate rayworth's donuts and growth economic thinking

48:10

yeah it's a while since i've read it but um yeah i i think it's a great book

48:17

it depresses me that economists don't take it seriously and it seems to me that if cop 26 um is to

48:25

stand for anything um perhaps someone needs to have the courage to say

48:32

the thing that is fueling this the reason why we're not putting the brakes on and slamming it

48:38

into reverse over the climate is because we're addicted to the idea of growth

48:44

and i think she describes that really well there's a whole bunch of other people as i know um an organization

48:51

called the post growth institute and they're saying we need to find other metrics um

48:57

by how we measure what matters in life and two's credit david cameron tried to do

49:02

that he he failed to describe what he meant by the big society but when he said perhaps we should be measuring gep in

49:10

terms of happiness he was copying the kingdom of bhutan but but i think he was

49:15

he was he was on to something what what i would call the power of us and

49:20

he was ridiculed for it but frankly we we can't keep consuming stuff

49:26

um because that's what's driving the need for fossil fuels yeah okay

49:32

um okay another question from chris ring how really do you feel it is to extend

49:38

the approach of co-production to developing social goods such as health care which have a very extensive

49:45

knowledge base and relatively high risks associated with them yeah

49:50

boy i don't know that's a question i don't normally get this level of questioning

49:56

it's typical of the demographic here that's the wba absolutely well there's actually a

50:02

chapter in the book that i call when needs must because i i kind of skirted over it but i'm i'm one of those people

50:08

who's living with stage three prostate cancer but i also had a disastrous colon cancer which um left me with a stoma and

50:16

and i i nearly died of sepsis what i discovered when when i was diagnosed with cancer was all kinds of

50:23

people who are to use the phrase they're not waiting they're taking matters into

50:29

their own hands now on one level of scariness you've got biohackers who are literally

50:36

changing their dna whilst injecting it back into themselves on

50:41

youtube videos you know you you it's it's completely unregu

50:46

regulated it's kind of like the wild west but i do think that

50:52

if if you had said to the big pharmaceuticals 10 years ago well

50:58

we're going to have to develop a vaccine in 12 months they would have laughed at you but the fact is that we've had to do it

51:04

during covert and we've done it and i don't think those development time skills will ever be the same i don't think we'll be talking about 10 years of

51:11

clinical trials i think groups like night scout and and i i there are many many of them

51:18

that i cite in in the chapter they are they are they're not waiting to

51:24

be given permission to do because it is their health that is suffering so one of the things that you see now is in india

51:31

there is an open source drugs trial center and they are fast tracking

51:38

the kind of um uh repurposed drugs you know which notoriously during covert

51:45

you know uh trump got into trouble with ivamectin um but but the idea of using drugs for

51:52

other purposes is has largely been driven by users and i met some of those

51:57

people who've driven that movement so absolutely right i think it goes beyond that i think in a couple of weeks time

52:04

i'm cure curating a a conference in battersea um around this concept of

52:09

co-creation with local authorities with arts organizations culture organizations

52:16

with homeless people because that's what we saw in manchester right now what's going on in manchester is very interesting because they're trying to

52:23

find solutions to homelessness that come from the homeless people themselves instead of constantly telling

52:29

them what they should be doing so yeah great question okay um

52:37

now although here's the question from philip keenan he's put his question in for us and he's saying isn't this cooperation

52:43

as in the co-op yes yes it is absolutely and

52:49

you know the funny thing is i think in this country we kind of view the co-op as kind of quint

52:55

i just before lockdown i got invited to speak at the world uh gathering of of

53:01

the of the world's corpse it was in brazil and when i walked in there was a complete

53:08

recreation of i think it's called tortellino where the rochester pioneers first

53:15

first operated from there is a great deal of reverence for what those rochester pioneers were able

53:20

to do and i think we we haven't taken it seriously enough but in other parts of the world

53:26

we are seeing cooperatives on the rise we're seeing some of the largest banks have now become corporates of course the

53:32

credit unions always were but it's it's a huge movement around the world

53:38

and it doesn't get the recognition it deserves okay thank you hope that answers your

53:43

question philip um question here from claire salisbury she's saying was it gandhi who said be

53:50

the change you wish for in the world should we all be ditching the bystander effect someone else will fix it

53:58

wait for some big organization but be the change we wish to see ourselves i guess that's just exactly what we've

54:03

been talking about it is but i think people sometimes feel

54:08

um if you think about it we've we've we've got a kind of learned helplessness

54:14

now which has been you know ever since industrialization but to give you an example you know i i recently got

54:21

an electric vehicle and a guy who was doing some renovations said can i have a look at another bonnet i said well you can but you won't you

54:28

won't see anything that you recognize as being a car um and and if anything goes wrong with that

54:33

car i have no idea how how i would fix it so i think there is a kind of helplessness that we're at so people

54:38

sometimes struggle to say well what can we do but what we saw during the pandemic

54:44

were you know uh community libraries springing up because the local authority could no

54:49

longer afford to keep them going and people said well we'll do it the the local village pubs which were about to

54:56

close people said we'll take that on there's a there's a thing now in um

55:02

down in the southwest of england uh a movement called flat pack democracy which is trying to encourage people to

55:08

stand as independent local councillors and that's that's gathering quite ahead

55:14

of steam so absolutely right i think it's too easy for us to engage in clicktivism and you know i hold up my

55:21

hand i'm guilty i sign the petitions online and sometimes i forget about it

55:26

but but yes i i think we we we can't be bystanders anymore frankly

55:33

i i reached that point in this pandemic when i saw the nonsense that was coming out of boris johnson's mouth and i just

55:39

thought we're gonna have to look after ourselves and do our own research protect ourselves because frankly i

55:45

don't think the government did a very good job of it okay um i think we've got time for one

55:52

more question so this is from sylvia mae i think that fuel gas and electricity is

55:59

one of the greatest social needs but it's currently dominated by ridiculous oil prices i'm wondering just how new

56:05

social innovators in this field might protect themselves from the big oil companies

56:10

and national oil market yeah many of these companies going to the wall aren't we

56:16

we are and and you know there were companies that were encouraged to to start up and and now

56:23

they probably feel like they've been sold a pub but i think what that little video clip that i played is an example

56:30

of you know repowering is a is a cooperative in in london

56:35

and they are working in some of the most deprived areas of of of london you know

56:40

what the americans would call social projects and they're saying you can you don't have to be dependent upon

56:46

anyone for your energy you can create your own and i think we'll see more and more of

56:52

this in future i actually don't think it'll just be um restricted to energy we've already

56:57

talked about health i think well the homeschooling movement flourished uh during covert i think

57:05

we'll see that become more and more sophisticated i think we'll see more young people doing peer-to-peer learning

57:13

what's driving all of this is is the desire for self-determination and people want to be in control of

57:20

their lives and of course that's what led to brexit because people felt that

57:25

they weren't in control anymore um so i think it's what's leading to the push

57:31

for independence in scotland but on a on a on a smaller level

57:36

it's it's what what's leading us to think about these bigger

57:42

economic and social questions and say what can i do do i have to rely on

57:47

somebody else fabulous well thank you very much for that david i think we're we're out of

57:53

time but i think we've got through all of your questions i think um thanks very much for that david that

57:59

was really really thought provoking i think i think everybody's gonna go away with uh

58:04

a lot of thought so thank you yeah they always are

58:11

i'm just going to stop recording now

English (auto-generated)

Lecture

Using gender-neutral pronouns

Life is not a binary space. We are fortunate to live in a fluid, continually changing society, evolving, morphing and importantly, embracing change and diversity. The use of personal pronouns, with individuals describing themselves as ‘he’ or ‘she’ is not new, but the use of gender-neutral pronouns such as ‘they’ or ‘their’ are becoming increasingly common.

In this lecture, we will explore non-binary gender identity and the impact of mis-gendering, and how to use gender neutral, non-binary pronouns in everyday life, social media, education and in the workplace. Join us to learn how to be an ally to help normalise the pronouns conversation and support the LGBTQ+ community.

Video transcript

0:00

also it's interesting that some of you have added your personal pronouns on your zoom name so um fiona if you wanted

0:07

to put some instructions in the chat on how people could do that but um my

0:12

personal pronoun is she her you can use the chat if you wanted to you're welcome to put your personal

0:18

pronoun in there or you can add it on to the end of your name like myself and fiona has done and

0:25

put some instructions in the chat how to do that so um i'm going to share my screen

0:33

um

0:38

and so personal pronouns it's it's something that you may have heard about sort of a

0:46

personal pronoun they them instead of the uh the usual she her or um he him so

0:54

this lecture is about starting that conversation talking about um gender-neutral pronouns and um how we

1:02

use them um why we use them and just give you sort of a bit of information really in background so that you're more

1:09

aware of more awareness pronouns when you see

1:14

them so um my view is life isn't a binary base

1:19

because you have male you have female you have woman you have man it's not as simple as

1:25

it being binary it never has been binary is it's a spectrum of what we're seeing

1:31

in life so

1:42

uh um yesterday it was it was quite convenient this happened yesterday was um

1:49

international pronouns day and that's on the third wednesday

1:54

of october and so this is a day when across the world uh we celebrate the use

2:01

of gender-neutral pronouns and um you know refer to people by the pronouns

2:07

that they would like to use so some of you probably haven't heard of international pronouns today but anyway

2:14

it's the third wednesday of october so that's quite good timing i think that fiona that we've

2:19

got this lecture on the day after international pronouns day

2:25

so what we're going to talk about today we're going to talk about um gender and what that is exactly then we're going to

2:32

i'm going to go through gender-neutral pronouns and what they are then we're going to have a look at that non-binary

2:38

gender-neutral definition and then why are pronouns so important and i'm going to have a look at how to

2:44

use pronouns of everyday life and work and have a quick look at social media

2:50

how they use social media and then just have a look at linguistics looking at um other languages apart from english

2:57

language have a look at some famous people some celebrities um and then i also got a slide with some resources on

3:04

so you can look at these and find out more information after the lecture and then there's also a q a

3:11

session at the end where i'm going to pose a question for you so what is gender so that's a big question

3:19

some of you may think about well i know gender is it's male or female but

3:25

and gender is like the sex you are when you were born however gender is actually

3:31

refers to socially constructed roles behaviors expressions

3:36

and identities of girls women boys men and gender diverse people

3:42

so the key word here is gender diverse people because not everyone identifies

3:47

themselves as male or female and the masters course i'm doing is called

3:54

gender studies and a few years ago courses similar to the one i'm doing

3:59

referred to as women's studies that has changed over the last few years so now called gender studies because

4:05

gender is covers everything um so gender is how people identify

4:14

internally how they feel and how they want to express themselves externally so

4:19

gender is not about your biological sex it's not about the attributes you were

4:24

born with your anatomy which is you are defined at birth and you are um assigned at birth

4:32

gender is about how you feel as a person how you want to express yourself

4:38

and that's the key difference between gender and sex

4:43

um the other thing about different types of gender neutral pronouns so we're all familiar with she her and he him and so

4:52

are gender neutral pronouns they are used as they and them so you might find

4:58

that people refer to themselves as they or them so we um then need to

5:05

recognize and acknowledge that so when you're talking to people when you're writing about um in in a sentence you're

5:11

using the pronouns that someone would like to use and this is particularly important

5:18

in everyday life and employment because um even in the wea i mean i i see job

5:23

adverts on our wea website and it says he she should be able to do and it lists

5:29

all the things they should be able to do well he she what about someone who is they um and so you know we wea are um

5:38

as guilty as other people of not doing this all the time but but actually

5:44

being on the edi which is a quality diversity and inclusion working group

5:50

being the vice chair of that we're working really hard at the moment to try and change these things because it might

5:56

seem quite a small thing someone reading a job adverb and they you know it says

6:03

she or he if that person is non-binary and identifies as they or them they are

6:08

going to feel excluded and feel that organization doesn't want me to join them

6:13

so we are working on the edi working group to change these small things and it's

6:19

all about culture change and the wea is working towards a um

6:25

a quality kite mark which is investors in diversity so we're working really hard towards that at the moment and

6:31

we've got an action plan to work towards so you will be seeing some changes so

6:37

gender neutral or gender inclusive pronouns they're they're non-specific to

6:42

one gender and they don't identify an individual as a specific

6:48

gender as male or female and they use the third person as well

6:55

so i mean do you know any others anybody know any other types of pronouns that we might use instead of

7:05

in the chat but you may have heard of some other

7:12

pronouns c or zia [Music]

7:17

which is using x um these pronouns may sometimes be used on

7:24

social media but in generally people use the pronouns they them and then say i'm

7:29

doing a masters in in gender studies and we use the pronouns they then he her or he him we don't use these but if you do

7:37

see these they are the um pronouns for non-non-binary pronouns if you do happen

7:43

to see them so we've got a photo here of harry styles don't know

7:50

if anyone knows harry styles a singer very famous singer and this is a

7:57

cover of vogue magazine now um harry styles identifies as um he him but he says that

8:05

you know if he wants to go out if he wants to wear a dress if he wants to wear

8:10

makeup or he wants to wear nail varnish he will do it you know it depends how he feels that day

8:17

he's quite happy and confident in himself to be able to wear what he wants and this is an example of um of that on

8:24

vogue magazine so non-binary or gender neutral

8:30

is a term um we like to call it gender diverse so we're not restricting

8:36

what we feel as in you have to be male or you have to be female and if you can

8:41

see the image on the screen here um in the center here you have an image of um

8:47

of something that you met you may see on public toilets for example we have gender neutral toilets um

8:54

at university of east anglia when i first started there because like last year when i was doing my first year i

9:00

wasn't even on campus because of coving so this year's like it's like being in my first year again

9:06

because it's totally new and um they have got a gender-neutral toilet in

9:11

the students union and um i think it's wonderful that they're doing that and i haven't seen any other

9:16

gender neutral topics but that they have a symbol on similar to the one that we have got in the middle of this fight

9:22

here so some statistics for you

9:27

one in ten young people identify as gender diverse

9:32

so these figures are from um a study in america from the university of

9:38

pittsburgh so i don't know whether you remember i think it was march this year

9:44

um we we had the census didn't we and there was a question on there about what um

9:50

gender do you identify as in this country we haven't looked at all of that information yet from the census

9:57

so we don't actually know how many young people identify as gender diverse we don't know how many how much

10:02

the population identify as gender diverse we just don't know and the results of the um census will uh

10:12

preliminary results will be out next year but it won't be until something like

10:17

2024 until the full results are out so i think that's going to be a very interesting read but so this study um

10:24

was done at the university of pittsburgh so one in 10 10 of young people so it's

10:29

uh it's quite a high figure um you may have family members that you know once you've been to this lecture

10:36

and know a bit a bit more about um gender-neutral pronouns you'll be able

10:41

to perhaps talk to family members perhaps young family members and and

10:46

then they'll say earlier say that oh i'm so pleased that you understand how i'm feeling so it's something you can choose

10:53

empathy with so why are pronouns important well

11:00

pronouns are really important because they um show

11:05

that you acknowledge someone's identity so if for example you were in a meeting or

11:11

like we are today and i've said what my personal pronouns are i popped it on zoom i'm saying that this is how i'd

11:18

like you to um see me and it's the same for everybody so if

11:24

someone identifies as they them that's they want you to acknowledge that

11:29

and it and also to respect that and it's also a place where people will feel

11:36

safe so if someone wants to um it feels safe enough and confident

11:42

enough to say to you what their personal pronouns are then they feel like it is a

11:48

safe place for them which is really important and also it also shows that the

11:53

community cares and the workplace cares as well the other thing is

11:59

don't try and guess someone's pronouns because people as i said before

12:05

they can [Music] people can dress and appear how they want to but it's how they feel and how

12:12

they want to identify as is their personal pronoun so don't try and guess

12:17

what people's pronouns are the best thing to do is to ask them um how they want to identify

12:26

or they will probably say to you um the other thing is um

12:31

i mean i i i think in the statistics that we saw in the last slide about one in ten peop young people i think um

12:40

i was talking to my son he's 17 and i i was saying to him well what do

12:45

you think do you think your college is like one in ten young people identify as gender diverse

12:51

and he said to me yeah that's probably right yeah and i think it's so good that young people have the confidence and

12:58

they feel safe to be able to actually question their identity and think about it because when i was at school

13:05

you know we we were just told you know you were you're a male you're a female you're a

13:10

woman you're a man and we don't even think that you could question it we didn't even think that you could be

13:16

anything else and so i think it's really good that now that people are able to feel safe enough to actually um question

13:25

their gender and also feel actually comfortable

13:30

um with what their appearance is and feel comfortable um with other people and

13:36

feel comfortable talking about it so i'm just going to

13:42

stop here for um a few minutes to see if there's any questions in the chat before

13:48

we move on so yeah fiona any questions in the chat

13:53

um there are a couple and one of them i think you've kind of partly answered but i don't know if there are further

13:58

there's a further answer to it you did talk about one in 10 people identifying as sort of gender diverse

14:05

are there any stats around how many people in general would identify that way

14:11

or just really around young people yeah the study um at pittsburgh was just

14:17

for uh about young people so it was one in ten um don't have i said that we're waiting for this information to come

14:23

back from the census to find out with more detail but there isn't a lot of information out there because to do a

14:31

study you need to study like that you need to have a large sample don't you like the whole population to be able

14:37

to get some sort of meaningful numbers out of that yeah okay so be interesting see what

14:43

comes out of the census then yeah definitely will yeah and another question now where did this come from i'm trying to remember it was

14:49

angie i hope that answered your question that first one um no where is it

14:55

yes this was a question from annette is the wba part of the stonewall

15:00

diversity program no we're not the wea is working towards

15:06

something called investors in diversity um and i think i have a couple of

15:11

colleagues here at the lecture i think it's lorinda and there might be rosemary

15:17

and tracy who are a part of that group but we are working towards um a set of criteria uh

15:26

investors in diversity that it includes gender um so we are not part of stonewall because

15:33

we wa is taking one step at a time so we're working on uh one this one particular kite mark at the moment

15:40

um it may be something wea thinks about in the future i don't know but um you'll

15:46

find that a lot of universities have adopted their stonewall [Music]

15:52

equality award um and the universities are very much um

15:58

ahead of the game compared to adult learning and fe colleges in terms

16:03

of how they use um pronouns okay um so i hope that answers your question

16:10

in it and another question here from carol when did the definitions of sex and

16:15

gender change to the current oh it's a good question

16:21

people um have been talking about it for a long time um so saying going back to

16:26

the sort of 70s and 80s um and there's a particular

16:32

academic called judith butler and she really started the conversation about

16:38

saying that well gender um is not just about um

16:43

biology and anatomy there's lots of other things it's like a spectrum it's fluid um it can be about linguistics as

16:51

well it can be about culture so there's a particular academic judicious butler

16:56

she's quite difficult to read um but she's written quite a few books

17:01

and is if you're interested in reading more about her um

17:06

she's her name's judith butler there's quite a few other people that

17:12

have written about the subject as well um there's for example there's um sarah

17:20

ahmed and there are also um someone called um

17:25

hill collins but there's quite a few feminist academics who have written

17:31

about gender okay um i think that as a in terms of

17:38

questions just now we've had quite a bit in the chat about pronouns themselves and what other kinds of what other

17:44

pronouns there might be out there um i don't know whether you want me to to

17:49

sort of summarize a few of those or whether you want to to move on rachel

17:54

we'll move on because i have got a slide that talks about pronouns of use in other languages as well yes and that's

18:01

one of the comments that's come through what about languages where there are right yes

18:07

yeah okay excellent well i'll just hand back to you then rachel okay thank you fiona so um

18:15

how do we use pronouns so as i said before don't don't assume someone's uh gender

18:22

or the gender pronouns and um also you can ask someone what their gender

18:28

pronoun is it says um can i ask what pronouns you use so if you're in a

18:33

meeting if you're at work or if you have um meetings outside of work

18:38

you can then ask everyone so you can start with yourself and say uh you know my name's rachel my personal pronouns

18:45

are she her and then people then introduce themselves so you can do it like that um if you're using sort of

18:52

online technology like we're using at the moment you can put your personal pronoun after your your name

18:59

so it's it's a way you can you can do that and also the other thing is is um using pronouns making sure you don't

19:06

exclude anyone in the way that you talk uh the way that

19:11

you speak um so for example if you say uh welcome

19:16

ladies and gentlemen you're automatically excluding people who don't identify as a lady or a gentleman who

19:24

don't identify as male or female so you can say welcome everyone so it's just thinking about what what

19:30

language you use um so yes you can share your own gender pronoun

19:35

and just make it normal normalize it i think that's that's what where we where we are at the moment is it's not

19:41

normalized and so people find it confusing and difficult to understand because it doesn't come

19:48

naturally in the way that we speak and you people may not see these pronouns used very often so i think once it

19:55

starts to be normalized um and the social media accounts are

20:01

beginning to um let you use your personal pronouns in their in their profiles as well so once

20:08

it becomes normalized i think we'll find that it becomes easier to understand

20:15

so um everyone makes mistakes as well so if

20:20

you um call someone by their wrong pronoun or if you forget then just apologize because everyone

20:27

does make mistakes um i was talking about the binary gendered language so

20:33

when we're at university um the lecturers they use folks they welcome folks

20:38

you can say colleagues when we're at work environment we use colleagues um you can say welcome everyone so think

20:45

about the language you're using and then support others as well so if you find that someone is using uh the wrong

20:52

pronouns you can support them and correct them and also challenge them if someone is doing that deliberately

20:58

you can challenge that person as well if you feel confident enough to do that and then practice practice getting used to

21:04

them and the only way you can practice getting used to them is to start using

21:09

them and hopefully we'll be seeing more pronouns uh in the media

21:14

um in the use of language that we hear around us and sort of in the newspapers

21:20

on the television um so

21:26

talking about social media i don't know whether many of you have got linkedin

21:32

accounts but you can change your pronoun personal pronouns in um

21:38

linkedin you can also do it in instagram and facebook and um a lot of organizations

21:45

you can change your email signature and you can do that for um like personal emails so if you go into your supply

21:52

profile you've got a signature email signature and you can pop that in your email so whenever you send an email to

21:59

someone it'll say my personal pronouns are um or you're just a name and then your pronouns after your name

22:07

and that signature is used in a lot of organizations now and then like in your

22:13

profiles on your bio so if you're um in a working environment or if you volunteer for somewhere and it says

22:19

someone says to you you've just joined this group tell us a little bit about yourself what's your bio and you can say

22:24

for a stop or you know my name is rachel turn and my personal pronouns are she her and then you go on to say what else

22:31

there is uh information about you so you're doing it as sort of normalizing it

22:36

and we talked about zoom how to use your your pronouns in zoom and canvas i think

22:42

most of you here are familiar with canvas that we use at the wba

22:47

canvas does have facilities to place in your profile your your personal pronouns so they will appear

22:54

um we haven't activated that at the moment but that's that that's something that i'm hoping to see in the future as

23:01

well as email signatures automatically that will put in personal pronouns so so

23:08

look at look out for these social media especially on instagram if you've got young

23:14

people uh family members they're always on sort of instagram

23:19

and facetime and various other things like that and and that they're all using um

23:24

using the personal pronouns now so someone talked about

23:30

um other personal pronouns to be used in other

23:35

languages so i mean talking about butler before um she mentioned uh

23:41

linguistics how important that is because not every language has a neutral so we have we

23:48

we've got they them and the swedish have something they have hen german uh in german there is a neutral

23:55

as well but if you look at languages like french all their nouns are given male or female

24:03

names aren't they in front of them and you've got le or la so

24:08

therefore there isn't in their language there isn't a gender-neutral pronoun so this slide

24:15

just shows you what um the gender-neutral pronouns have been

24:21

what they are you know used in different languages so in french ill or yell

24:26

and german zia or zia russian i'm afraid i can't pronounce that one but it looks like oni and

24:33

spanish l um italian and portuguese are more complex with their language

24:40

um and then so in indonesia and turkey just have one

24:45

pronoun so it does all depend as well on linguistics even

24:51

though people say well no there's nothing to do with linguistics there's nothing to do with your biology or anatomy it's how you feel but if you

24:59

are for example um in indonesia and you are not able to use a

25:05

gender diverse pronoun because it isn't in your language so it's it's um

25:10

it's a complex it's a complex situation so uh

25:16

we're lucky i think we're fortunate in this country and they're fortunate in america that we have the ability to to

25:23

easily use the gender diverse pronouns

25:29

oh um looking now at some celebrities that you might know um

25:35

i'm gonna talk about eddie izzard because i think eddie is amazing um her pronouns are she her

25:44

however eddie has said i'm gender fluid somewhat boyish and

25:50

somewhat girlish so in between so i expect that if

25:55

eddie was maybe a young person now eddie would probably identify her as

26:02

they them but i i think she's amazing because she's about similar age to me

26:08

and she is so confident um she's really well she appears confident she's you

26:15

know she's so comfortable in what she wears and if people say to her there was a i was reading about um you know

26:21

articles journalists said to her why aren't you wearing high heels and so she just said

26:27

well it's not comfortable i don't want to wear high heels why should i have to it's not comfortable so yeah

26:32

she's comfortable in what she's wearing if she wants to wear um makeup if she wants to wear um nail varnish she will

26:40

and so i think it's you know i have got a lot of admiration for her and and she's very um

26:47

a very intelligent person as well i think she speaks of like five or six different languages

26:52

and um as the quote says here i exist i have no reason to feel guilt or shame

26:58

i'm proud to exist and while i'm not perfect i deserve to exist in society just like anybody else

27:04

and um also eddie she's a uea honorary graduate um

27:10

and you've probably seen her as a comedian but also as an actor and she does a lot of work for charity as well

27:16

lots of marathons that she runs so yeah i i've got a lot of time for eddie and

27:23

i just think she's just so brave really um to be able to do that and i'm sort of

27:28

like reflect on my own life and i was thinking to myself well i'm similar age but when i was a young

27:35

person we know we just didn't have a choice it was she her and i think

27:40

probably if i was growing up now as a young person i'd probably choose to use a gender diverse pronoun as they or them

27:49

because i would feel like well you know i don't want to be put into this box of male or female i just want to be myself

27:56

so anyway sam smith um i don't know whether

28:03

any of you know sam smith but he's a singer songwriter very popular

28:08

and sam smith as a quote here i'm not mail off email i

28:14

think i float somewhere in between so it's very similar to what eddie was saying so sam is um

28:22

uses the pronouns they them now there's something really shocking that i found out that um

28:29

in the brit awards because because sam's a a singer songwriter very um

28:35

uh successful the the brit awards have a male solo artist

28:41

female solo artist so where does sam sit so sam couldn't um

28:48

um apply for any of those categories so therefore they didn't have a seat at the table so

28:56

it's when you think about these things you think about your people more detail reflect on it and think well

29:02

you know who should change here should it be those organizations the media like the oscars the brit awards should they

29:10

be changing and i definitely think they should i mean as you think about the oscars you have the best female actress

29:17

best female director so where does someone fit in who's not female and

29:22

who's not male and automatically they're excluded aren't they

29:28

so um i i think um this is a really good example of how

29:35

this could have impacted sam's career and it just seems quite unfortunate

29:40

really um another person blue delbario i'm not

29:46

sure whether anyone here watches star trek discovery well i i i love star trek

29:53

and um season four star trek discovery should be coming out soon anyway blue delbario

29:59

plays a non-binary character in star trek discovery called

30:06

adira and blue is also non-binary in real life and

30:12

it was interesting because they were actually having a um

30:17

sort of like a as a challenging situation in their own life while they

30:22

were playing the part of adira and while adira in the in star trek was talking

30:29

about their personal pronouns and saying to people actually no i'm not a she i want to be known as

30:36

they or them this was happening in their real life as well and they were saying to their family oh you know i i want to

30:43

be known as they them i i don't want to be known as she her and so it was

30:48

interesting this was happening in their own life as well as happening while they're actually playing the part

30:54

in star trek discovery and and also star trek um the franchise

31:01

is the first time they'd used an online reactor and also it was

31:08

one of the first franchise franchises to use non-binary actors playing non-binary

31:14

roles because what you often find in films is that they'll be a part and it

31:19

could be a um a non-binary part it could be a um a gay

31:25

part but that the actors they choose may not necessarily be gay they may not

31:31

necessarily be non-binary so what uh the franchise is saying is no

31:36

we're not going to do that we're going to choose actors who are non-binary who are gay because they they

31:43

they have that lived experience which is is something that not saying not all uh franchises do

31:51

um i was going to talk a bit about the

31:56

uk and what we do in this country so um yeah in this country we have the

32:02

equality act just 2010 and we have the um

32:07

the protected characteristics however there's no legal recognition

32:12

recognition for non-binary um identification gender because you

32:19

have in the uh protected characteristic is sex as in are the male or are you female and

32:26

there's also protected characteristic of sexual orientation and also

32:33

the gender reassignment so if you're transitioning from one

32:38

um sex to another but there's no legal recognition of

32:43

um a non-binary gender and some people may say oh it's just semantics but it's

32:49

actually there was a legal case recently that actually um

32:55

looked at that and so i mean definitely in this country it's something that that needs to be looked

33:00

at further in terms of the equality act um and then you notice that official documents you've got your driving

33:06

license your passport they all say on their whether you're male or female

33:13

when you are enrolling on a wea course that you asked are you male or female

33:19

if you want to apply for know electricity account or a gas account they ask if you mail off email

33:26

they don't have any other options so it's not it's still not normalized which is why

33:32

when we had the census come round in march it was so um i was so pleased to

33:39

see that i've actually got that question on there about gender identity and so there was a voluntary question on there

33:45

that you could choose to answer um if you wanted to you had to actually say what what sex

33:51

you were at birth so what sex were you assigned at birth what is on your officially on your passport passport

33:58

unless you have a gender recognition certificate so a gender recognition

34:04

certificate is something that you have that you can change your um biological

34:11

sex at birth and it's called um a legal document it's gender recognition

34:16

certificate so we have lots of information everyday things that we do in this country

34:24

that exclude those people that are non-binary and um

34:31

one of those is things like passports and drivers license and something that i'm particularly interested in

34:37

is the representation of non-binary individuals in adult learning because

34:44

when someone enrolls onto a course it doesn't it can be the wa it could be anywhere else um they have to say what

34:50

sex they are at birth and then if they want to do a qualification they then have to say what

34:56

sex they are otherwise they can't do that qualification so if someone wants to do um a level two

35:02

maths course they have to be either male or female otherwise they can't do the

35:08

take the qualification so that that's something i'm going to be doing lots of you know more research on

35:14

and see if i can sort of influence policy makers because i feel that that's not particularly um

35:20

inclusive um so i mean that's just an example of the

35:26

way that in education that the things that need to be changed in

35:32

education whereas if you go to universities it doesn't matter whether you're male if

35:38

you're female if you're non-binary you can still do your degree so it's just a sort of a change of

35:45

culture so i've got some resources here for you so there's some different websites that you

35:51

can look at um there's one called mypronouns.org and that's quite useful because it gives a lot of information

35:58

about how to use pronouns um amnesty international have a good area on their website there's

36:06

an organization called diversity uk and there's also mermaids which are a

36:12

charity that provides support to young people and then we mentioned stonewall

36:17

didn't we that was in the chat so stonewall um is a charity and they support

36:23

lgbtq plus people and that is there's lots of useful information on stonewall

36:30

a website as well if you wanted to have a look so

36:35

we're coming to the end of the slides now fiona and i've got a

36:41

question for people and i wanted to open up this question which is

36:47

how are you going to start the conversation uh with personal pronouns what are you

36:53

going to do in your own life okay well we'll give people a little bit

36:59

of time to think about that um rachel and what we can do is um at the end of the lecture we can save all of the chat

37:06

and pass on all of that to you so have a read of that after

37:11

and i wondered whether we wanted to maybe have a look while people are having to think about that maybe take

37:16

some questions just now so i'll stop sharing shall i yeah if you could do that that'd be great

37:24

no let me i've got lots and lots of comments in here that i'm going to send on to you

37:30

rachel and everybody's been having a good a good chat um here now let me find

37:36

because there's a particular question that i wanted to ask you i'm just scrolling up

37:44

um yes this is a question from nick howard um he's interested in why the pronoun

37:51

debate has become the means by which trans inclusion is expressed

37:58

the means by which trans what was that inclusion trans inclusion is expressed

38:06

um i think i think it's probably because for so long um

38:12

individuals who identify as as trans have not been able to express themselves

38:18

in a safe environment or freely and it's becoming more normalized now um at

38:24

universities and um for young people as well to be able to express themselves

38:30

and to use their non-binary forms of pronouns and i think that's probably why it's just a

38:38

it's something that we didn't see so 10 years ago 20 years ago but it's something now that is

38:45

changing and people are being you know more more accepting um

38:51

young people are able to actually question their identity more does that

38:56

answer your question i hope so i'm sure you'll tell us um

39:02

okay another question from um jenny manning i guess this is an important one

39:07

is this stuff being taught in schools that is a good question

39:13

there's no obligation for schools to teach this no um and so

39:20

at the moment um especially with with the with covid um young people have had

39:26

a really rough time of their mental health and um schools are being as supportive as they

39:32

can but young people um in regards to their identity their

39:38

gender identity that could cause them a lot of mental health anguish and and

39:44

it's about talking to their family what do they say to their family are their families still going to love

39:50

them if they come come out and say that they're they or them and it's all these um different um

39:58

uh stresses that that for young people um have at the moment and they've got they've got to focus on

40:04

their exams as well and then there's covid you know are you going to have exams so you're not going to have exams

40:09

and so there's a lot happening for young people and i think um

40:16

the schools should be looking at this more and it's something that organizations such as um

40:24

stonewall and mermaids and diversity uk they are providing resources for schools

40:29

but say at the moment schools don't have to do this it's not part of the

40:35

curriculum okay thanks for that and rachel um

40:41

here's a question from valerie actually this is an interesting one what about passports

40:48

do we know whether you know what are the implications for passports

40:54

because obviously it has you're on it doesn't it so i don't know if you know if if there is

41:00

any talk about how this this debate has an impact on that um i mean but

41:07

passports have your your sex on them rather than your gender they have the sex what what were you born as

41:14

what was your anatomy when you were born was it male or female so that's what is on your passport

41:19

rather than gender so if you were born female and then

41:25

um transitioned to male and you have got that certificate then you can legally

41:31

have your passport change you can't have your passport changed unless you have that legal certificate

41:37

gender recognition certificate right interesting okay um i hope that answers your your

41:44

question valerie um now another uh question here

41:49

this is one from olga um she she's saying that she has many

41:54

friends who use the them as the pronoun so she's she's used to using these

42:00

but gets confused by i don't even know if i'm saying these right z zem

42:06

a air and all of the others especially as they're harder to say she's asking where where have these

42:12

other alternatives come from yeah they've come from um mostly social

42:17

media with uh young young people using um social media platforms

42:23

um and sometimes they will prefer to use those

42:28

uh pronouns than they or them so it is personal choice really

42:34

okay um right we have another question here from

42:40

eve um she's saying looking at judith butler she goes by she they

42:46

yes now there's a bit of debate been going on in the chat which i'll pass on to afterwards rachel look at this but i

42:52

just wondered what your take on it was yes yeah there's someone in my gender studies

42:58

course he goes by she and they and so we had that that debate um i think it was on the

43:04

first session and so we were saying well how would you like to be known as when

43:10

we um address you do you want to be she or do you want to be they and so um

43:16

a student said well i don't mind to be honest i mean i'm just me i'm an individual

43:23

i i don't mind it it is you can call me she you can call me they but i i i don't

43:28

i honestly i really don't mind so yeah that that is you can choose i think

43:34

some people may say she are they to make it easier for other people

43:39

and making people other people more comfortable in using the pronouns that is probably

43:45

why but say everyone is an individual and everyone um

43:50

i mean i i believe that that gender is is fluid and i don't believe that anyone should have to use any pronouns to be

43:56

honest and no titles you're just you you're a person it doesn't matter what

44:01

gender you are um i think everyone should be using they or them but um

44:06

that's just my that's my opinion and maybe in the future at some point

44:12

when i'm no longer here um that may be the case so um but just tonight at the moment

44:18

okay thanks for that rachel um and a couple of questions around this

44:24

whole thing you were talking about when you refer to the brit awards and sam smith

44:29

why not just best singer yeah exactly yeah simple and also that

44:35

was valerie and then also another comment a similar comment from catherine

44:40

um who's talking about the oscars you know why do they have best male this or best female that in the oscars the best

44:46

director of oscar is gender neutral or non non

44:52

yes specific why can't all the other categories be yeah exactly and um

44:59

i i i i spoke to my i spoke to my youngest about that and i said what you know what do you think because he's like

45:04

17. he's a lot younger than me and so he said oh well no one takes any notice of them anymore because they're just not

45:10

with it but oscars the brits no don takes them seriously because

45:15

they're just not diverse so i'm interested

45:21

okay right i think shall we have a look at some of the comments that people have been putting in about what

45:27

what they are going to do now let me scroll down let's have a look

45:37

let's have a look oh here's carol i might campaign for the

45:42

non-binary definition to be made legal if i understand correctly um

45:52

and jane is saying she'll she'll talk to her daughter about subject um

45:58

she she's already told her that she's thinking of changing to the pronoun they

46:03

um and jane is saying i will totally support her now as i've had a greater understanding of it thanks to yourself

46:10

oh thank you very much it's all about conversation starting the conversation and not to be

46:16

uh it may feel uncomfortable but if you have a family member who's probably feeling exactly the same and they're

46:22

thinking i don't want to tell my mum i really don't want to because i don't know is she still going to love me you

46:28

know it's not really difficult decisions yeah and then actually another comment here

46:35

this is a this is this is an interesting one this is from caroline and her daughter transitioned from male to

46:40

female and insisted and be on being called she that mattered a huge amount to her

46:47

um understandably so um

46:53

there's still so many comments here rachel um we'll definitely get these these off to you just trying to see if

46:59

there's anything else um that is specific to the kind of um

47:08

question that you asked um

47:15

just lots and lots of comments about about the subjects in general well here's eve i'll start a conversation at

47:21

the pub tonight so there you go

47:27

um let's see

47:32

that was a comment that just came up about one of my yeah one of my teenagers wanted to use they and we practiced so

47:38

we shed the plural meaning that's a really good idea to practice with them yes

47:43

yeah yeah and it's in it practice in a safe environment as well in in the you know

47:49

in the family home yeah yeah but else just right see if there's any other comments that'd be interesting to

47:55

pick out here looks like

48:02

we've got so many of them and also i can see quite a few of you

48:08

have added your pronouns to your name yeah yeah actually and john muskins

48:14

asked a technical question i'll just answer that for you now joel um to change your name on zoom

48:22

what you need to do is open the participant list find yourself on it and if you hover your cursor over your

48:28

name there will be a more i think it's a more button that appears if you click on more there then will be

48:34

the option to rename and it's at that point that you can change your name to whatever ever you

48:39

want it to be add your pronoun or whatever and so that's how you do it

48:44

so that's practical one there um what else do we have let's see if we

48:50

have any other questions actually um

49:00

i noticed there was some just look at the time i'm just noticed there are some questions about um intersex and

49:05

hermaphrodite and things like that yes there's quite a lot of chat about that actually i mean i don't know can afford

49:11

some of that that whole thing is that debate that that's that yeah that's that's

49:17

that's a different debate but um it's interesting that

49:22

um [Music] when babies are born um the doctors the medical profession will give

49:29

them a um allocate them a sex you know male or female by looking at their anatomy

49:37

but in some cases um people will get to puberty and and and

49:44

then find uh additional sexual organs that they didn't know that they had

49:50

so it's not always a case of you know when someone's born oh you're male you're female and there's

49:58

things that happen at puberty and it's it's it's quite complex um there was a

50:03

um there's a series i watched on i think it was it was it was disney on netflix

50:09

and it's called um why as opposed to the y chromosome um the last man and um i

50:16

watched it because i thought well that looks interesting because i thought i'm doing this gender studies course i like anything like that and if you do

50:24

get a chance to watch it it does explain it in because they talk to a geneticist and and um and she explains it all and

50:31

it's really quite interesting they go into quite a lot of detail about it so if you ever get a chance and you've got

50:37

disney and you want to have a look at this it's called y the last man standing and um it's interesting because everyone

50:43

with a y chromosome disappears um or has this nasty uh virus

50:50

so uh which is obviously the y chromosome of the other men but she was saying well

50:55

actually it's not all men it's some women as well um it had the y chromosome so that's a

51:01

interesting um concept but it's quite a good watch if you like that sort of thing

51:06

yeah okay thanks rachel and the question here from uh janette

51:12

um i don't know if you can answer this one are non-binary and gender diverse synonyms

51:19

um yes it's not non non-binary basically means that

51:26

it's it's not male or not male or female so you're not conforming to the male or

51:31

to the to the female um and then um gender diverse

51:36

is can be [Music] so non-binary so sort of like using

51:42

pronouns they or them or it could be like using like she or

51:47

they so it's it's it's just someone that if you're gender diverse um

51:53

it's someone that wants to be known it doesn't want to conform to that that binary so i would say that

52:01

you can use both terms meaning a similar thing

52:06

yeah okay right so let's have a look here [Music]

52:17

let's um

English (auto-generated)

Lecture

Building power from the grassroots

The widening wealth gap and deepening economic and racial inequality lies at the heart of so many challenges facing millions – their employment, housing, health, education, recreation, relationships and family life, all magnified and amplified by the COVID19 pandemic.

Journey to Justice’s latest project aims to galvanise people to take action for economic justice through its successful approach to human rights education and has brought together a series of resources about 40 ‘ordinary’ people who have done extraordinary things to fight for the cause. As International Day for the Eradication of Poverty (17th October) approaches, this lecture will explore the underlying causes of poverty and inequality and share some of the stories of the ’40’.

Video transcript

0:04

so what i'm going to try to do now is find the um share sound

0:10

um bit because we do have a few videos and audio clips uh throughout tonight's

0:17

event um i've turned everything up um as high as i possibly can so i'm hoping

0:22

that we all be able to hear everything um as you know though everything is subtitled as well for this evening

0:29

so without further ado then welcome um as fiona said my name's abby um i'm with

0:36

journey to justice at the moment uh amongst other things and i'm really excited to be here today giving this

0:44

lecture with the wea so today's session is going to look like

0:51

this i'm going to give you an introduction to the economic injustice project

0:56

we're going to go through um

1:02

how the um the session is going to work so we'll look at and think about the explainers when we get to that point

1:09

um and this section will weave together lots of audio and visual clips

1:15

and quotation from some of our experts to get us to really start to think about poverty and inequality in the uk

1:23

and this will be followed by um some questions that are posed to you that are designed to get us discussing how and

1:31

why people experience poverty and so you might want to think about this question have it in your mind whilst you're

1:37

listening to our explainers and listening to me talk about our explainers so then after we've had a bit of time to

1:44

feed back our ideas i will move us into some of the stories of ordinary people

1:49

with lived experience of economic inequality who have used innovative ways

1:55

to address poverty and injustice and ensure people have a stronger voice

2:01

and if there is time if i've timed it correctly we'll have another short break

2:06

to think about change and areas that you think you might have

2:12

realistically affect change think about what change you might want to see what would you do to bring about those

2:18

changes hopefully our stories will inspire you and galvanize you

2:25

and we will end the session on a short video from the project offering tips for those wanting to campaign for a better

2:32

future so to start with then an overview of the project and its origins the economic

2:39

injustice project came out of journey to justice's traveling civil rights exhibition and

2:46

links economic and racial justice the project uses journey to justice's approach to

2:53

human rights education to focus on how we can address economic injustice in the uk which has been made

3:01

ever more urgent by the kovid 19 crisis and we want to counter divisions and

3:07

emphasize intersectionality and telling stories of cooperation and hope and people's actions for change

3:16

now the aim of our economic and justice project is to help equip people to take

3:22

action for change using our successful approach to human rights education based

3:27

on the sharing of stories of sort of ordinary people um so everyday people

3:33

people that we all know people like us and their actions for change

3:38

and this um is to help to help foster this change we have created a unique

3:44

resource that's hosted on our brand new website economicinjustice.org here

3:50

and i can put all of the links perhaps in the chat at the end of this session

3:55

and finally as we as fiona mentioned the project actually focuses on some of the

4:01

neglected articles of the universal declaration of human rights and we chose

4:07

this wea session on the 14th of october because as fiona mentioned it is near to

4:12

the international day for the eradication of poverty so that's why the focus we have

4:18

many different um topics uh within the economic injustice project and today i'm going to be

4:24

focusing on poverty and and stories around an action around that's been

4:30

taken around eradicating poverty where possible

4:35

so a bit of a a screenshot there of our wonderful website so you can see the

4:41

site and you can see that it consists of explainers up in this corner here

4:47

and now these are experts in that field discussing underlying causes of economic injustice we also have the story section

4:55

the blue box there um and these are told in a variety of formats including films and podcasts by

5:03

people with lived experience of economic inequality and activists in the yellow box here and

5:09

the tactics share examples of successful non-violent tactics to achieve change

5:16

we also have an activity which we're continuing to populate so the activities section that you see there will have

5:23

ways in which to engage people in your local community to be able to use all of

5:29

the resources that you would find on our website at the moment it houses um a

5:36

piece of action um and a a sort of a learning um i can't quite think of the

5:43

word at the moment um [Music] a lesson plan that's that's the word i'm

5:48

struggling for around housing the issue of housing we also have links to many different

5:54

resources external to to our website and we also have some solidarity stories as well so there's 10

6:02

solidarity stories in there so stories that we didn't interview people about but that we feel

6:08

really complement and highlight all of the information and the resources that we've put together on the website

6:15

and at the moment we're in the process of creating a physical version of this website

6:20

for people who don't have easy access online or actually want to we

6:26

have a more physical interaction with our stories tactics and explainers

6:32

and our next steps after that is to develop a model to train community facilitators

6:38

and these facilitators will become familiar with the resources and consider how to use them within their own groups

6:45

to galvanize confident action for change using examples of what works to address

6:50

poverty deprivation and a lack of hope through local action and self-help

6:56

and we hope to work with a variety of grassroots community and neighbourhood groups facing

7:02

particular challenges as well as schools and other educational establishments and and please do contact us if any of

7:08

the the information that i'm giving tonight um inspires you and you think actually i could really use this

7:14

resource in my setting please do feel free to contact us

7:21

so today's session then explores the underlying causes of poverty and inequality and shares some of the

7:26

stories of the 40 participants that took part in the project and it starts with identifying some of

7:33

the causes and markers of poverty and inequality in the uk through explanations of how the causes of

7:40

poverty interlink with employment social security and well-being

7:46

and this consists this this sort of first element that i'll talk through with our explainers will

7:52

consist of insights that have been woven together by me from from our explainers

7:57

to form a snapshot of the basis of wealth and income inequality in the uk

8:03

we will hear tonight from dr charlotte macpherson at king's college london professor robert beckford a professor of

8:10

theology at the queen's ecumenical foundation in birmingham and vu university in amsterdam and professor

8:18

sir michael marmot from the institute of health equity and the author of the marmot review

8:26

i will then move on to examples from our project of people who are taking action to alleviate poverty in their community

8:33

and this includes dr maya rose craig founder of black to nature and an environmental and climate

8:40

activist and also louise cook um the ceo of shareware clothing scheme

8:46

uh she runs the only clothing bank in the uk that close the economically vulnerable

8:52

and as i mentioned at the top of this uh session we will consider tactics and

8:57

have a look at a video that um i think is really engaging and really inspiring and i hope you find that too

9:06

so then we'll start uh with the explainers element of the session tonight with dr charlotte macpherson

9:14

who explains the power of rhetoric that blames people for their own poverty and

9:19

structural injustices in her work in her interview with us she

9:24

focuses on the links between low wages insecure work and food poverty

9:30

experienced particularly by young people an economically just society for charlotte is fundamentally about having

9:38

equality of opportunity so everyone having the opportunity to access a decent life and this depends on society

9:45

being set up in a way that distributes resources fairly and equally and overall

9:50

for charlotte economic justice is about having an equal shot at life

9:56

so as you can see here one of the quotations from the interview that she gave with us she says that poverty and

10:02

economic injustice are structural problems they're not personal problems and they should not be considered

10:08

individual responsibility charlotte highlights the narrative around work that renders the individual

10:15

actually responsible for achieving and maintaining jobs and their lives

10:21

and such rhetoric she claims actually leads people to judge others so with people on low wages

10:29

potentially judging people without jobs who live solely on benefits

10:34

but what these value judgments and the narrative around work and poverty

10:40

ignores said charlotte is actually the skyrocketing living costs the

10:45

unaffordable nature of housing tax breaks for the rich and cuts to social security

10:52

all of which means that the socio-economic structure of society forms a barrier to equality and the

10:59

opportunity to live an economically secure life

11:04

and in her interview with her she goes on to explain that work specifically the changes to working

11:10

practices can be a factor in poverty and and um

11:16

destitution potentially and states that increasingly people in poverty have jobs

11:21

and often those people are in insecure work now the zero hours gig economy can be

11:28

positive for some and its flexibility but for others particularly the young

11:34

people that charlotte has spoken to in her research such working practices means that they

11:41

have no certainty about income how much they might earn in a day or in a week let alone how much they might

11:47

earn that month and many feel as though they are patching together incomes from many

11:53

different roles in order to make ends meet

11:59

so a lot of the young people in charlotte's research around 80 of them had jobs

12:05

but were consistently having to go to food banks or accept food parcels from parents or loans of money from friends

12:12

to get by and this was because the wages that they are paid are insufficient to meet the

12:19

living costs in that area and this is because they don't get the hours that they need to afford basic

12:26

things like food lighting and heating and in addition to this

12:31

experience a number of the young people charlotte spoke to you during the pandemic itself explained that they

12:37

didn't have full protection from furlough because they didn't have anything in

12:43

their contract that secured their working hours with the company that they were with

12:48

and often many of them were made redundant but some were able to secure a

12:53

few hours from their employer although it would be the minimum amount that they were scheduled to initially work

13:01

so say instead of receiving the 40 hours that they would normally work which

13:06

often included a lot of overtime they would get furloughed for only the 10 hours that they were officially

13:12

contracted to do this left many of them without enough to live on

13:20

now another of the explainers in our project professor robert beckford adds a

13:25

further dimension to thinking around working practices and the narratives about jobs

13:32

for professor bradford the gig economy is the product of a history of increasing exploitation of the workforce

13:39

and it has been produced primarily from the relaxation of labor laws and workers

13:45

rights by governments and also the myth that private individuals always do better when there

13:51

is less government security so again this narrative about it's the individual sort of responsibility to um

13:59

to do well and to earn well and beckford suggests actually refrain

14:05

reframing how we talk about it the gig economy specifically um can really help us to highlight and

14:12

expose um what it actually is so for professor

14:17

bradford he's saying it's not gigging it's exploitative

14:22

and as you're going to hear in this clip this audio clip um and i hope it's going to be loud

14:29

enough um again the the closed captions will be on and we'll be able to pick up what

14:35

professor beckford is saying and in this clip you will hear him saying that gigging used to mean doing

14:42

something on the side something that is often thought of as creative and artistic

14:47

that comes with the sense of maybe one day getting something a bit better from the activity

14:53

so i think that the gig economy is a product of a history

14:59

of increasing exploitation of the workforce the gig economy is produced

15:04

primarily because of relaxation of labor laws by governments the

15:10

diminishing of workers rights by successive conservative governments and

15:15

also a myth that private individuals always do better

15:21

when there's less government less security less involvement and protection by the state so those economic changes

15:29

legal changes married to a fake belief system about what humans beings are

15:35

likely to do if they're left to their own devices have led us into a predicament where we call

15:41

insecure dangerous uninsured working practices

15:46

something sexy like the good economy

15:52

okay okay so hopefully you all heard that short clip of professor beckford speaking

15:59

there and to to bring him together with dr mcpherson

16:04

they're thinking around the idea of changing the narrative around working practices and reconsidering how and why

16:11

people in work are also in poverty so moving away from individual responsibility

16:20

i'm now going to turn in a moment um it's a rather boring slide at the moment in a moment i'm going to turn and

16:27

press play on this video of professor sir michael marmot who wants us to understand that we need to see beyond

16:34

just income and economic inequality to include broader social inequalities such

16:40

as education life chances and health and he asks us to think not so much

16:46

about income and wealth inequality in themselves and on their own

16:51

but in relation to areas of social inequality and poverty being not having

16:57

enough to live a healthy life so again um actually on this video when

17:03

i press play there is actually some um subtitles already embedded

17:08

um so it might be worth if you can switching off your closed captions if not

17:14

um hopefully the closed caption will pick it up for you too if it's struggling to hear

17:25

i think that we need to think about not just inequalities of income and wealth

17:32

important as they are but inequalities of social conditions

17:37

more generally inequalities of life chances inequalities of education

17:44

oh apologizes and skills

17:49

inequalities related to where you live in the country and these are partly economic but not

17:56

exclusively economic and they damage health through the life course

18:02

and then there's a second way to think about it the first is what i've just been saying it's not only economic but

18:08

the second is not so much inequalities but poverty

18:13

not having enough to live on now that's linked to inequality but it's not quite the same thing so both are

18:20

important um the unfair distribution of life chances

18:25

which is related to inequality and people simply not having enough to have a healthy life

18:31

and that's related to inequality but it's not in that case the inequality per se but not having enough

18:38

to have a healthy life so as you heard there um mama says that

18:46

poverty is linked to inequalities but that they're not quite the same thing and in the clip you heard him talk about

18:53

the unfair distribution of life chances which is related to inequality and people simply not having enough to have

19:00

a healthy life and so we can think about this and what it means

19:05

in the group questions shortly but to summarize and to go back to to

19:12

charlotte and uh professor beckford too and supposition that in today's topic we

19:19

can see that our economic injustice project explainers discuss poverty as

19:25

the following so they discuss it as structural something that is external to the individual but it is often

19:31

understood and described as an individual failing by rhetoric that blames people for their own

19:36

situation and many people experience poverty or in work often working in the gig economy where

19:43

there is no certainty around income and leaving people particularly the young accessing food banks and accepting lows

19:50

or food parcels and i want to thank everybody in the chat for discussing the gig economy

19:56

there and well and gig working and what that means um and the working practice of gig

20:03

economies and zero hours contract as people were pointing out are a product of a history of increasing

20:09

exploitation of the workforce in which the myth of private individuals succeeding where there is less

20:15

government security often circulates and this links what dr macpherson and

20:20

professor bedford say about the way in which we talk about work and poverty and how rhetoric about individual

20:26

responsibility and blame and the language around gigging can mask structural injustices and inequalities

20:33

which leads us to what professor michael marmot's view that we need to think not only about

20:40

income and wealth inequality in an of themselves but also in relation to areas

20:45

of social inequality so for example he says in his interview with us later on that some someone might

20:52

be earning an income but not be able to participate in society without any shame professor marma explains it's about what

20:59

you are capable of doing with your income for example buying presents for your grandchildren or children that

21:05

forms part of a dignified and healthy life so this is where

21:11

i'm hoping that we'll have a little bit of time to bring you in and to think about

21:17

what you've just heard and maybe consider the question how and why do people experience poverty so drawing on

21:24

what you've heard also drawing on your own experience okay everybody um if you want to have a

21:31

little bit of a think about that and and send in your your comments on the chat and we'll

21:37

we'll have a look at those

21:44

everybody's very quiet it's not like you will we're having a little chat here about zero hours contracts at the moment

21:52

poverty tends to be multi-generational and that's from nick howard i don't know

21:58

what your thoughts on that are abby um i guess we're thinking about what

22:03

professor michael marmot is talking about i guess with the sort of structural inequalities um

22:10

and life chances and having the opportunity to be able to um

22:17

live the life that you fully want to live i guess if if generationally you are experiencing similar barriers

22:24

each time with each generation going up and down then it's quite difficult to be

22:29

able to um be socially mobile i guess and and break out and break through

22:35

those barriers yeah and another couple of comments and lack of education perhaps as high up on

22:41

that list um sometimes and this is from laureen sometimes it's because people haven't

22:47

been brought up to manage money so they don't teach your kids either i guess that's all kind of linked together to what we were just saying um

22:54

[Music] lack of quality education affects many as it limits their educational

23:00

experiences and qualifications capitalism

23:06

um lots of people saying education

23:12

long-time family carers are really at a disadvantage they may work but usually part-time

23:18

so that i would i would imagine that's um ill health

23:25

cost increases and we're seeing a lot of that at the moment aren't we we are yeah and we do actually have a

23:30

story um i'm not showing this evening but on the on the site there is a story of paul rutherford who

23:37

challenged the bedroom tax that came in 2014 i think it was and he yes he and

23:45

his wife have caring responsibilities for their grandchild and yes how that impacted on um their ability to stay in

23:53

the house that they were in um so yes it does it can impact um

23:58

in ways that as charlotte was sort of saying that sort of support that is needed not not

24:04

you know not only individuals responsible but everybody and the society and the state being responsible

24:09

too yeah we've got we've got lots of comments coming in people have time to get all through all

24:15

of them but we'll record all of these um

24:22

high rents unscrupulous landlords who don't maintain property insecure housing

24:27

um [Music] what else do we have here is an

24:32

interesting one unforeseen results of overprotection of employed people preventing employers from creating

24:38

secured jobs that's coming from catherine

24:45

um and then this is an interesting one from amal garnam and she thinks people

24:50

experience poverty partly due to social prejudices around race disability gender

24:56

and also disability can be a cause as being disabled is very expensive due to extra sort of the extra costs of your

25:04

your extra living needs that you have um so we have got lots and lots and lots of

25:10

comments so um

25:16

what else do we have here i'm just trying to see if there's anything else that's slightly different well here's another one and this is from

25:23

frankie wholeness poverty arises from the breakdown of family meaning reduced income and support to the remaining

25:29

parent particularly if they have several young children um local authority cuts

25:36

that's from pat holland and so lots and lots so i think what we'll do is we'll gather

25:42

all of these in everybody and i will make sure that abby gets these um tomorrow morning when we pull it all

25:49

together but thanks very much for all your comments we've got absolutely loads of them so that's certainly prompted a lot of discussion

25:57

yeah excellent and thank you and hopefully um some of what we'll go on to see now

26:03

we'll address some of those um points and think again through some of those points and also thinking about um

26:11

the disability um that was mentioned earlier about it being it costing more to live there is actually um a story of

26:19

jane wheeler who talks about that um if i got the right jane no jane hatton i

26:25

do apologize in in our disability section as well and she talks about um setting up a jobs um platform for people

26:31

with disabilities um but how yeah it does cost a lot more um to be able to live so how we how we

26:39

think around that and what we do as a society to be able to support people is i think crucial to what um our

26:45

explainers are talking about in their uh interviews with us okay excellent well thank you fiona i

26:51

will carry on then with our next section um which is our stories for action

26:59

um so in this section i'm going to outline some of the stories within the economic injustice project that

27:06

highlight action that people have taken to challenge issues and change their lives and situations so i'll give a

27:13

brief overview of each story that we'll see and then we'll watch a clip from each the first one is um the

27:21

full clip and so it's actually around five minutes long but the second clip is much shorter and gives you an overview

27:28

of the story but i want us to also think about what michael marmot has asked us to do

27:35

whilst we're watching some of these stories and he asks us again as i've mentioned to see beyond economic

27:41

equality is to include broader social inequalities and think about poverty and

27:46

not income alone now the two aspects of living a healthy

27:52

life that he refers to includes having access to adequate clothing and in outdoor spaces

28:00

so on our site you can see here on the screen that we have different um

28:06

categories with stories telling uh collective and individual action on each of these

28:12

aspects so tonight we're going to focus on clothing um and

28:18

a story in the clothing and food section so that is the story from shower wear clothing scheme

28:23

and then also the story from dr maya rose craig

28:29

in it's in the leisure and arts section so as you can see here we have a lot of different aspects and a lot of different

28:35

stories that maybe speak nicely to all of the chat and all of the conversations that we are having this evening

28:44

so in our clothing and food category there is a story from louise cook

28:49

from shareware clothing scheme just going to move my chat over slightly so i can press play

28:56

um so once again there will be subtitles on this video so at the charity uh clothing is

29:03

understood as an essential lifeline for people and it was set up in 2014

29:08

following a conversation that louise had and you'll hear this in the story with her son who was volunteering at a

29:15

food bank at the time and who noted that people at the food bank were asking about clothing and that there was

29:21

nowhere in nottingham that was providing items to people in an organized way

29:26

so louise decided to act let's see if i can get there

29:44

the issue being addressed by the foundation of shareware clothing scheme was clothing poverty which is an issue

29:50

that doesn't get much media attention in this country and gets forgotten about as

29:55

a type of poverty that people do suffer from and in 2012 i was lucky enough to do

30:02

some volunteering in the favelas of sao paulo in brazil and what i saw there was

30:08

really transformative to my life because i saw the power of community organizing

30:14

and what economic economic injustice looks like in latin america

30:19

they share with everyone else in the community and they set up cooperatives and they recycle repurpose and reuse

30:27

absolutely everything nothing goes to waste and this completely blew my mind in

30:33

november 2012 i was already an ethical consumer by that point already interested in social

30:39

justice i'm politically active but what i saw in sao paulo inspired me

30:45

to want to bring that model of sharing and that model of community organizing but in a

30:52

grassroots way um over to nottingham my son started coming home from our local

30:57

food bank where he was volunteering in his uh sixth form studies

31:04

every week every saturday saying there have been families at food bank again mum asking for clothes and there's

31:10

nowhere to signpost them to they don't need homeless clothes they don't need winter woolies they just need clothes for life to

31:18

function for them and their family so i said to him you know that's the one thing that nobody is doing and nottingham nobody's

31:24

providing free clothing in an organized way and my son said you should do it mum and

31:31

said to him okay then let's let's look into doing it but you you need to help me and we approached our priest and

31:37

asked him if we could use a room that wasn't being used in our church and to get off the ground and he said yes

31:42

so the first lot of donations started coming in and they were all worked on in my garage by my husband and my son and

31:49

my daughter and me so it was a very family concern so we set up to meet that need in the

31:55

very place where the need had been seen so in in that way we're a true real

32:00

grassroots community the plan was really initially just to get people to

32:06

start donating clothes in a very small scale so we could meet what we thought was a small scale need in that local

32:13

community and the plan was to um contact all of the agencies that

32:18

referred into that food bank where the need would was spotted and to get them to start um referring

32:25

people into us basically so our message from day one to the whole of the general public who

32:32

wanted to donate was if you wouldn't wear it yourself or want to see a member of your family in it we don't want it

32:38

because free doesn't equal rubbish this is this clothing is for someone to function in

32:44

life to either carry out a specific task that they need to do in life or simply to leave their house go out the door so

32:51

they need clothes that are fit for purpose and dignified and clothes that you would wear yourself to us it was

32:57

common sense that um nobody's gonna want to be made to feel as if they're getting something for free what some people call

33:04

a handout when they come to shareware for clothing they're go they're going to want to feel as if they've been clothed

33:10

shopping but didn't have to pay so from the very very beginning even before we had the type of premises that we've got

33:17

now where everything is out on rails and stuff and people chose their own clothing they weren't limited and

33:23

they're choosing exactly what they need just exactly as if somebody had given them the money to go shopping in

33:30

nottingham and they'd gone into the shops and nottingham and chosen what they wanted with that money at least one person a week will say to

33:38

us i feel like i've been to sometimes i say oxford street sometimes they say

33:43

prime marks there was say a a shopping street or a shop i feel like i've been to that place and

33:50

gone and bought everything that i wanted from there except it hasn't and that's exactly how we want people to

33:56

feel we're all a couple of steps away from needing to use a food bank from needing to go to fairwear from not being

34:03

able to afford period products from not being able to afford to put our heating on or

34:09

fix the washer if it breaks we're all a couple of steps away from that and whilst

34:15

organizations and social justice groups have been talking about that for a long

34:20

long time especially since 2010 it's taken a pandemic

34:26

for the bulk of the population to sit up and suddenly say oh

34:31

actually my life isn't actually as secure as i thought it was and neither are my children's

34:37

but actually kavit isn't always the reason and certainly never the

34:43

entire reason why that person has lost that job that person has lost that job as a result of the systems within

34:49

capitalism that have created this fragile space in 2020 where a pandemic

34:55

can hit the economy and it decimates everything and that's not the pandemic that's decimated everything that's the

35:01

previous decade that's done that

35:12

so as you heard there and thank you very much for the comments in the chat it is an incredible movement and shower is

35:18

hoping uh to expand um as you heard clothing poverty is something that is

35:24

not regularly talked about and it hits many different people in many different situations so people fleeing domestic

35:31

violence the elderly and hospital refugees and migrants and the homeless to name just a few groups of people and

35:38

the scale of the issue is demonstrated with some figures so in 2019 um shareware supported 7 000 people

35:46

rising to 12 000 by the end of 2020 and with the clothes from shareware

35:51

people were able to get into work and children were able to return to school and people experiencing mental health

35:58

issues felt that they were able to go out all thanks to the clothes from shareware and an outreach service now

36:04

delivers in bulk to five different counties surrounding nottingham and there's a new base in sheffield at the

36:10

moment so it was an inspiring story that gets us to think about

36:16

an issue that probably isn't widely known or understood

36:23

so i'll pause that so in addition to needing access to

36:29

clothes to live a dignified and healthy life um access to nature and natural spaces is also important and in our

36:36

leisure and art section the young dr mairos craig tells the story of how she was able to set up black to nature to

36:44

help give young people invisible minority ethnic communities and from urban spaces around bristol access to

36:51

nature and tackle the lack of diversity in green spaces so it was started by my rose when she

36:58

was just 13 and grew from a love of nature and awareness of a lack of diversity in the countryside and green

37:04

spaces so once again maya rose's video will be subtitled

37:12

so i've been running back to nature for about five years now and i'm 18 so i

37:18

actually started it when i was 13. essentially i started noticing that there's a real lack of accessibility a

37:24

real lack of diversity for the countryside in nature and green spaces and as someone who grew up in a really

37:31

nice rural area who has a really strong connection to the outdoors but is also half bangladeshi i really wanted to do

37:37

something to combat that so i started black nature to run these

37:42

nature camps essentially every year where we're bringing kids out from inner city bristol and giving them that

37:47

opportunity to spend time in an environment where they've quite often never really experienced before

37:53

they've definitely been a massive learning curve where that very first one we ever did i feel slightly sorry for

37:59

those kids because they came and it was great but it was absolutely jam-packed with activities from dawn till dusk

38:07

and they were just exhausted just from being in a new environment so adding all of these things on top of that when the

38:13

real experience really was being out in the countryside but those activities we still do lots of them every camp um and

38:20

we do a real range i think that very first camp was very you know very diy in terms of we were

38:26

just borrowing tents off of friends and family and we were just borrowing equipment off of

38:31

people but these days it's very you know it's very formalized we have these massive tents we have loads of equipment

38:38

because we just don't have the expectation that any of the kids that we work with are going to have anything

38:43

that's suitable for spending the weekend camping in the countryside because why would they and i

38:49

really hope that going forward at least some of these kids will understand why

38:54

defending our natural world is so important is such a key issue going forward because

39:00

we have had those conversations about why nature is important but also how that links into

39:06

um poverty and inequality and things like that and i suppose helping them understand the world around them and to

39:12

be aware of the nature around them like we went back and we talked to some girls a few years ago and they said the

39:18

biggest thing was that they were so aware of all of the different birds that were flying around as they walked to

39:23

school and things like that now which just made me so so happy

39:30

okay so that's the end of uh maya rose's clip there and it reminds us of what she was saying

39:37

there that there are many ways in which people are historically excluded from spaces including having a lack of access

39:43

to equipment to take advantage of the natural world around us and her story draws links between nature

39:50

poverty and ethnic and health inequalities and this brings us back once again to professor michael marmot's

39:56

point about social inequality and income inequality being linked but not the same

40:02

it is possible to have an income but one that does not afford us access to certain experiences

40:08

and my rose's story also reminds us as the intersectionality of social and income inequalities with

40:14

visible minority ethnic communities being excluded from natural spaces due to racism and actually on our site we

40:22

also have a link in our solidarity story section to the hundred black men walk

40:27

for health story which inspired the eclipse play uh eclipse theater play

40:32

black men walking a story that highlights black people's access to the countryside and i would certainly

40:38

recommend having a look at our solidarity story section for that story among others

40:45

so we're going to think now um over to you again um we have i think a

40:51

bit of time um and so the stories that you've just heard i want to say there were a small

40:56

snapshot of the 21 um that we have on our site but thinking through what we've heard

41:02

and thinking about um poverty in inequality um

41:07

what changes um do you want to see and what would you do to bring about change

41:13

so maybe some of the stories have inspired you and i can see that have already said

41:18

from elizabeth how inspiring it is

41:27

so yeah if you have a moment to think about that okay and they're starting to come through now and abby this is from

41:34

laureen and i want to see everybody on an equal footing there shouldn't be any reason for poverty i think we'd all like

41:40

to see that wouldn't we oh absolutely yes

41:46

okay encourage more empathy that's coming from joe eden

42:04

and ruth siller talking about um you know schemes for for kids like the duke

42:10

of edinburgh scouts and that kind of thing the kit can be expensive so i don't know if there's any action ticking around that

42:16

yeah certainly i mean i know that so linking the two stories quite neatly actually with um shareware trying to um

42:24

ensure that people have access to outdoor equipment and clothing now it's a big drive of theirs in their um

42:31

nowhere to run campaign um understanding and acknowledging that you know we needed clothes in the in the

42:37

lockdown to be able to actually go out for our daily walks and some people just didn't have access to decent shoes and

42:44

trainers and things and so yes it is expensive and buying things for duke of edinburgh i can

42:50

testify to that having a having a son myself

42:55

yeah and a comment here from jan uh tighthurst she's certainly going to be using her network to publicize the need

43:02

for these types of projects so that's good thank you jan yes please please do

43:07

explore um as carrie's mentioned in the chat as well a little bit above um

43:13

so somebody also volunteering at journey to justice is here this evening and there's lots of stories on here and so

43:19

there will be lots of inspiring stories that you can share with your networks and some other comments here and

43:25

accessible affordable and public transport and rural rural areas

43:32

um investment in public services um with the realization that markets do not

43:37

have all the answers um no they're all flying in again abby

43:43

we're going to have to collect all these together for you again i think um

43:50

encourage more places this is interesting for example cinemas and museums to offer free companion passes

43:56

for disabled people that can't go out alone that's an interesting one that is

44:02

absolutely i mean if if emma you know anyone who who is working on that at all i mean

44:07

that that it does sound like something that is needed very much so um

44:12

because again like we've highlighted it is more expensive um as a disabled person to to afford things um and that

44:20

is one of them if you're having to yeah if you're needing to pay for two um when you can't yeah

44:26

yeah and a comment here from gene um there's a danger that structural changes

44:32

can seem too big for an individual so think globally at locally is important

44:38

joining with local groups to tackle these injustices absolutely yes completely agree and it

44:44

does seem very very huge and that's one the fact the next bit i'm going to go on to

44:50

with the tactics section um have a lot of advice on how to do that and how to maybe not

44:56

immediately think to yourself well i've got to change policy i need to lobby government there are steps and ways to

45:02

to build up and to make an effect change

45:08

yes influencing local authority action as well yep that can help

45:14

yeah a fader tax and spend system

45:19

yeah support good education health sports facilities sure start youth clubs wea

45:27

absolutely so lots and lots of stuff coming through here which is which is great

45:33

um so again abby i'll pull all of this together for you this is going to be really interesting

45:40

for you to read so i don't know what if you want to move on to the kind of the last bit on the tactics that you wanted

45:45

to talk about and then we can have um i think we do have a couple of sort of questions for you which we can we can

45:52

put in at the end so um i'll i'll hand back over to you again okay thank you fiona yeah

45:58

excellent thank you so much for all of your comments in the chat it's really great that you are all engaging so nice

46:06

and so wonderfully uh with this with this topic um so i want to leave you and this is a

46:12

short video to leave you on uh with some ideas about how change can happen

46:18

and we have a whole section as i mentioned on the sites detailing different tactics that activists have

46:23

used to affect change and in the following video we will hear from helen barnard deputy director of the joseph

46:30

rounchy foundation who shares smart tips for activists campaigning for a better future her

46:37

advice to sum it up is to the seek the common ground not the high ground use language the public can engage with and

46:43

let those with lived experience lead and helen is also one of our explainers so i'll play the video

46:50

and hopefully you'll see some wonderful advice

46:55

[Music] so i think there are two bits of advice

47:00

i would give to people who want to get involved in activism i think the first is you have to think

47:05

big but campaign smart so you need to think about the big changes you want to see you need to dream about a different world and then

47:12

you need to pick really carefully and smartly what will be your the things you will campaign for

47:19

every step along the way because if you try and achieve everything you generally achieve nothing

47:24

i think the second thing is you have to seek the common ground not the high ground so i think that too many campaigners

47:32

speak really only effectively to people who already agree with them so too many campaigners use the kind of language and

47:39

arguments and ideas which they kind of call their base love but which are either incomprehensible or

47:46

alienating to everyone else including to people who actually could be won over

47:52

and actually we aren't going to create any kind of big change in the country unless we take the public with us

47:57

and that means using the language that the public can engage with

48:02

it means speaking in ways that reach out to people and emphasize our common values not the things that we disagree

48:09

with and it means having the discipline to stick with the common ground and not

48:16

be tempted to plant our flag on the high ground and disparage everybody else because we will only create change if we

48:23

take large numbers of people with us not just our kind of the core activists

48:28

to whom it all seems so obvious and everyone should just do it you have to reach out to other people and speak in a

48:34

way that will connect with people who don't already agree with you

48:49

okay so that's all from me so thank you very much for listening and i look forward to answering your

48:55

questions thanks very much abby now i just need to try and find the questions in amongst

49:00

the hundreds of comments that we've got so thanks to every everybody for putting all of those in we'll suddenly be

49:06

pulling all of those together now i had a question earlier on let's

49:12

just need to find it

49:17

bear with me

49:23

you all really have been busy haven't you nearly there nearly there

49:30

right this is coming back this is from marina burl and coming back to some of the work

49:36

that journey to justice have been doing and some of the research and all of this kind of stuff marina is asking does any of the

49:42

research suggests any practical measures to the government to make real change so

49:48

it's that's kind of structural stuff that we're talking about yeah that is a very good question uh i mean professor

49:54

marmot's work really has a lot a lot of advice for policy makers um so his

50:01

marmot report both in 2010 and 2020 is talking a lot about um

50:07

health inequalities and what the government can do to sort of restructure fund

50:13

certain services um in ways that would allow them to be able to

50:19

provide the full roundness of the services that people need access to and

50:25

there's some people's have already mentioned above in the chat actually things like reinstating something like short start

50:32

funding various community services again um

50:38

yeah so there are quite a few of the explainers who do talk about that particularly professor marmot um

50:46

who talks about the way in which um government needs to change certain policies um but without going into all

50:52

of them i think that that would be uh so definitely check out his his video and the longer podcast that we have as well

50:59

on the website that will give you more detail around that great okay and another question here i'm

51:05

not sure whether there's one that you can maybe answer directly but and this is from dan tyson's when we were you we

51:11

was watching the video about the black to nature project um do any of the national organizations

51:18

help with that project for example the national trust or any of the wildlife trusts that kind

51:24

of thing any of that through the you know interviews that you did

51:30

that was a good question i mean certainly um my rose didn't mention any of the the bigger organizations such as

51:37

the national trust it was something that she and her family very much put together and as she said was quite diy

51:43

to start with now whether the national trust has subsequently um helped with

51:49

land maybe um it's a possibility but she certainly didn't mention anything like that um in her interview with us but

51:55

it's it's a good idea because you know it would it would be great to be able to access those spaces

52:02

okay right let's see if we've got any others in fact

52:08

hold on a second um

52:13

another question from jan tysor's what can i start to do

52:19

well yeah well i mean again check out the website but also i think

52:25

somebody also mentioned um above you know getting involved with local communities so if there's if there's an

52:31

issue particularly that that is close to your heart for whatever reason

52:36

um have a look around find out whether there's any any local community groups that are already trying to address that

52:42

issue and ask them to see how how you can get involved what it is that you can do even if you can only offer like two

52:48

hours or so i mean every every little piece builds up to the bigger picture um

52:54

so that would be my suggestion and if you're feeling really brave and really organized and really motivated

53:00

if there's something that you can't find maybe like louise and maya rose set something up see if there's other people

53:07

in your community that might actually think the same in terms of well we've also experienced this problem this

53:13

difficulty this barrier and that maybe actually working together as a community um

53:18

it's with your neighbors could actually try to affect the change you want to see

53:23

okay and and then another question from katherine kinney

53:30

and she's saying sure start was excellent and the present the present government destroyed it on the sly how can we stop

53:37

this happening well that's a very big question isn't it really it is yes it's a huge question

53:45

and again i think it's it's coming together um you know

53:51

shouting about it's not quite the right term i'm looking for but certainly making some noise trying to you know organize and communicate with as many

53:57

people as possible um to express that um dissatisfaction uh

54:03

to say the least um with with issues like that okay and uh just another comment from

54:09

jan in response thanks abby mobilizing my daughters done the case so there you go excellent excellent

54:16

right i think i think i've captured most of the actual questions i think

54:22

um so thanks very much for all your input today um abby that was fantastic it was

54:28

really eye-opening and i'm sure everybody is going to go away and with a bit of food for thought given all the

54:33

the contributions and that we've had over the course um of the lecture so

54:39

thanks very much for that i am now going to stop recording before i forget to do

54:45

that because i quite often do there we go

Lecture

Introduction to French Cinema

Step into the world of French cinema—a cornerstone of global film culture and a wellspring of artistic innovation. From the pioneering days of the Lumière brothers to the revolutionary French New Wave and beyond, this lecture takes you on a journey through the history, style, and influence of one of the most celebrated cinematic traditions.

Discover how French filmmakers have pushed the boundaries of storytelling, inspired movements around the world, and reflected the heart and soul of France’s culture and society. Whether you're a seasoned cinephile or new to the art of film, this engaging lecture offers something for everyone.

Video transcript

0:00

to do so so that's us now recording so um without further ado rob it's over

0:06

to you now finally thank you very much indeed yes french new wave is a passion

0:12

um it's also a film movement i spent a whole term at university studying studying so what

0:19

i'm hoping to do is distill the essence of it into today so i'm not sure how much many of you know

0:26

about french new wave cinema so i'm kind of going to go sort of ground level and sort of move through

0:33

the approach i'm going to take is a bit of me banging on like now

0:38

um some images to kind of stimulate and obviously get you to think about what

0:44

i'm saying now and how that links to french new wave and then we're going to look at hopefully a couple of clips to

0:50

illustrate exactly what french new wave cinema is um i like it it ran from the late 50s

0:57

through to the um late 60s notable directors included jean-luc goddard uh

1:03

included francoise truffaut essentially there was a lot of other things happening in

1:10

the film industry at the same time all film industries in different countries

1:15

were taken advantage of changes in technology there were new lightweight portable cameras for example um

1:23

the italian neorealist movement about 15 years before heavily influenced the

1:29

french new wave filmmakers i'm talking about directors like rossellini for example so there was as there are now

1:36

when when there are changes in the industry there's often a movement that emerges

1:41

and what what the french new wave directors like to do was make mainly on location films they

1:47

didn't like to shoot in studios um they like to think and i'll i'll challenge this later and i'll i'm

1:54

interested in your opinion on this they like to they like to think they rejected very

2:00

traditional filmmaking techniques and when i say that i mean camera work when you would cut on action for example they

2:08

would put in a jump cut um or they would follow the character with a really long take

2:14

for for an almost unbelievable period of time without cutting to a different shot

2:21

um often there was no resolution to the film there was no ending um i mean the

2:26

first clip i'm going to show you in about 10 minutes is a brilliant film by a female director called agnes varda

2:34

and the film was click at clio from five to seven and there's there's it's it's an amazing

2:40

film a fantastic film but nothing actually happens in the end nothing is

2:45

resolved and many of these films challenged traditional filmmaking techniques that have a beginning

2:52

a middle and an end if you like a sort of classic hollywood three-act structure it's almost like a lot of french new

2:57

wave filmmakers thought let's not have an end let's have an open-ended resolution let's mess around with the

3:04

editing let's mess around with the camera work and let's go for this realist approach

3:09

and i'm going to use that term time and time again realism but almost a sort of romanticized form

3:16

of realism if you like subjectivity and opinion but kind of grounded in realism and that

3:23

was the conflict the sort of beautiful conflict of french new wave filmmakers

3:28

in this country in the uk you had social realist film social

3:34

realist film was grounded in the in the 50s and 60s social realist cinema was

3:39

grounded in realism it was not a form of romanticized realism whereas the french new wave

3:46

filmmakers wanted to put their mark on film history and they thought that

3:53

combining realism with a kind of romanticized representation of reality

3:58

was the way forward now i mentioned one filmmaker earlier a guy called francoise truffaut um he once

4:05

he was a really big fan of hitchcock and he once said and this is this is not what hitchcock did by the way he once

4:12

said you should only make films about things you know about um he was famous for making lots of

4:18

films uh pianist shoot the pianist jose jim um

4:24

le catra sonku the 400 blows but he also had this thing called the antoine duanel

4:29

cycle which were films that that went for a period of about 15 20 years

4:34

started in a french new wave that was semi-autobiographical they were kind of

4:40

about his life and i'd like to sort of right straight away draw a distinction between this guy

4:46

francoise truffaut and another big name called jean-luc goddard jean-luc goddard

4:52

was more political we'll look at a clip from his first film breathless he was a marxist he was

4:58

interested in existentialism uh he saw films more as essays rather than films

5:05

truffaut kind of liked hitchcock liked the whole french new wave thing wanted

5:10

to be part of it but kind of almost you know almost made clear

5:16

narrative films whereas if you watch any films godard made after breathless

5:22

you'll initially be scratching your head because a lot of it just doesn't make sense films like vivre savvy

5:30

sorry vivra savi uh sup v um as in you know it's my life

5:36

so straight away i'm going to kind of draw a distinction from different directors who had different

5:42

approaches and i've got trufa on one side who made kind of almost romantic humanist films but

5:50

messing around with the language of cinema and goddard who made these incredibly difficult to watch political

5:58

films that didn't just mess around with film language in his words

6:03

they reduced film language to degree zero now what he mean by by that is he

6:09

wanted to totally shake everything up and say look you know this is what

6:14

filmmaking can be whereas truffaut was kind of like hang on hang on let's still have a story let's still have a

6:21

narrative let's still have some sort of characters that audiences can recognize

6:26

with and that's why i'm going to sort of i don't want to sort of go too far down this road because this is an introduction

6:32

i want to introduce the idea of the left bank and the right bank

6:38

um in french la riga if you like the left bank and the right

6:44

bank of the river saying in paris but these two left bank and right bank

6:50

movements didn't just reflect different sides of the river saying what they reflected

6:57

is filmmakers that were more political the left bank filmmakers that kind of

7:04

stayed vaguely faithful to some form of filmmaking tradition

7:10

the right bank now i'll throw a few names at you i've mentioned truffaut and goddard

7:15

i've mentioned agnes varda who was incredibly groundbreaking she made early films about women's issues she

7:23

made films that looked more like documentaries and i think her her contribution agnes varner's

7:29

contribution to the french new wave film movement must not be underestimated and

7:34

that's why our first clip is going to be from an agnes vada film

7:40

you've got the likes of claude chebron eric eric romer all making pioneering

7:46

films but all sort of hanging on to that sort of label

7:52

the french new wave now the other thing that i'd like you to sort of kind of kick around

7:58

is how these guys started making films they were all writers

8:03

now i've got a slide later on that says this i might as well just say it now to you they were writers that threw down their

8:10

pens they wanted to make a mark on film history so all of the film all of the

8:17

nearly all of the french new wave film directors worked for this magazine called kaia de cinema and they

8:24

were film critics they were film historians they wrote about they wrote about film and they suddenly almost

8:31

literally got together and thought you know what let's just throw our pens down and let's pick up a camera and let's

8:38

start making films and that referred to chebroll eric romer

8:43

chris marker jacques rivette another name we can throw in here alan renee

8:49

there were probably 10 directors that you can sort of lump together as

8:55

ex-coyote cinema writers who suddenly thought let's stop writing

9:00

let's start making films i mean i mentioned chris marker you know you went from trufo

9:06

who made films that still had a recognizable narrative and i've mentioned that goddard's films

9:12

later were difficult chris marcus films were incredibly difficult he came from the political

9:18

left bank of the french new wave as well he famously made a film called legete

9:23

um in 1962 um that essentially was

9:29

all photographic stills apart from two seconds of actual film movement so he

9:36

kind of really pushed the boundaries when it came to when it came to experimental film but you know

9:42

boundaries that were picked up later by terry gilliam terry gilliam made a film in 1995 called 12 monkeys starring bruce

9:50

willis 12 monkeys is an absolute homage and almost a remake of the photographic

9:56

stills that chris marker used to make the film legete in 1962.

10:04

so you kind of got you kind of got a lot of got a lot of directors out there some that are interested in sort of radical

10:10

socialism and marxism like you know like like goddard for example and chris marker others like kind of truthful and

10:18

eric romer that were kind of the softer the softer side um i've just seen here

10:24

from claire 12 monkeys is a fantastic film and it is a mainstream film it is absolutely i'm just picking up in your

10:30

comments here and and the reason why i've mentioned it is if you have a look at legette you'll think how on earth did

10:37

the incredibly experimental 1962 film live today become a mainstream film in 1995 directed by

10:45

terry gilliam and starring bruce bruce monkeys bruce willis so

10:50

i think that should be his new name so essentially here what what i'm trying to sort of what i'm driving at here is

10:56

this is how influential this particular film movement was and i'd argue

11:02

still are and the whole idea of the auteur absolutely underpinned it now i've

11:08

mentioned this in my previous sessions and i'll kind of slow down a bit and explain to you what that means some of

11:13

you will know some of you won't um essentially all of these directors owed a massive debt to this guy called

11:21

andre bazar andre bazar was a critic a film theorist a film writer himself

11:28

and he kind of developed ideas that were later kicked on by an american critic

11:34

called andrew sarris who said let's call it the altur theory now it's a bit of a

11:40

no s-h-i-t sherlock theory when you mention it but it kind of makes sense

11:47

the auteur theory is directors that have their own recognizable style

11:53

or can be identified through things like themes issues use of color even use of

11:59

actors regular collaborations if i was to mention some alters from back in the day

12:05

i've scribbled some down here i've gone hitchcock and kubrick you could go howard hawks you could go any number of

12:11

directors so andrew bazar and later andrew sarris developed this idea called the auteur

12:18

theory and all the french ua filmmakers were like yes yes that's us let's let's let's

12:24

hang on to that idea and let's kind of almost use the auto alter theory to underpin the

12:30

individual films that we're making but all under this umbrella

12:36

of the nouvelle varg the french new wave so it was common so the orter theory was

12:42

common to all directors um i mean christopher nolan i was watching recently batman begins which was the the

12:49

first part of the the the trilogy of the batman film franchise if you think about sorry his franchise if you think about

12:55

dark knight and dark knight rises there were themes and representations that ran

13:00

through all those three films if you if you look at a tarantino film or a hitchcock film now his films are

13:06

recognizable so the auteur theory was really really important to these

13:12

directors who were previously writers for the kayada cinema

13:19

last bit i think on origins before i show you some images and we kind of i'll talk you through some images and we'll

13:25

kind of look at some bits and pieces to illustrate what i've kind of touched on already

13:31

so i mentioned the fact that it had its origins in italian neo-realism

13:36

i would love to have a two-hour i'm just looking at my clock i would love to have a two-hour session with you and say right let's have a look at rome open

13:43

city or bicycle themes these brilliant brilliant italian neo-realist films in

13:48

the late 40s and let's explain how these 1940s films influenced

13:54

french new wave from the late 50s through to the late 60s but we haven't got time so

14:00

unfortunately today you'll have to take my word on it that the realist aspect of italian near realism fed heavily into

14:08

and influenced the french new wave film directors that we've mentioned so far

14:15

ironically and despite the fact that the french new a filmmakers wanted to depart

14:22

from traditional filmmaking they also loved quite a lot of hollywood cinema

14:29

i'm talking about film noirs from the 1940s goddard love film mars breathless

14:34

his first feature is a homage to american film lars when godard was growing up he watched

14:41

films he watched really low budget films by the studio called monogram pictures

14:48

um who just produced these westerns and action adventure films that were incredibly low budget but he kind of

14:55

liked the impressionistic aspect of it so i guess what i'm getting to think about here is already there's conflict

15:02

already the french new wave is saying yes we're making realist films

15:07

about recognizable characters in recognizable situations but hey we're also quite impressionistic we're

15:15

quite subjective we like fiction film we like crime thrillers

15:20

there were a few french new wave films that were crime thrillers shoot the pianist with the lovely charles aznavour

15:27

the crooner charles aznavour and breathless can be described as crime thrillers

15:32

that paid homage to hollywood cinema so you've got all of these influences

15:38

that are almost colliding into this movement called french new wave cinema

15:44

and then of course you've got the the idea of hitchcock truffaut admired and

15:49

loved hitchcock he loved the themes that were written into hitchcock's work he also

15:54

loved the fact i can see claire you've mentioned hitchcock here i love the fact that hitchcock hitchcock

16:01

was working within a mainstream film environment and don't forget most

16:07

of hitchcock's famous films the birds marnie psycho north by north west vertigo they

16:12

were all made in america his early films before the 40s were made in the uk but he was basically

16:19

he turned himself into a mainstream hollywood filmmaker but truffaut saw him as an artist he saw hitchcock as

16:27

an artist that kind of rejected hollywood and just to sort of muddy the waters

16:34

even more before i show you some images i do like to muddy the waters um i'm going to throw in a guy called jean

16:41

renoir jean renoir was a was a film director from the 1930s he was the son of the famous

16:48

impressionist painter pierre auguste renoir and many of the french new way filmmakers

16:55

loved his work they loved what i would describe as the

17:00

as the poetic realism of the films of jean renoir and for me

17:05

everything all the nonsense i've said so far let's go let's go back and say that

17:11

again poetic realism i'm just thinking out loud myself i i love the french new wave

17:16

and i've studied it for years but it's almost like poetic realism resonates

17:21

in terms of you know if i had to sort of go into a cafe and say to someone in about 10 seconds

17:28

something about the french new wave i'd say poetic realism i just blurted out

17:33

i thought that that's the only time i've got so i'll just say it was poetic realism so maybe sort of maybe keep that

17:40

in the back of your mind as we look through some images to kind of illustrate um hopefully fingers crossed

17:48

what we've been looking at and chatting about so far all right so there's the first image i

17:54

want to show you um this is a magazine called the kaido cinema

18:00

this is the magazine that of course most of the french new wave filmmakers

18:06

wrote for on the front cover we have the lovely gene seberg gene

18:13

sieberg played a character called patricia in jean-luc goddard's first full feature

18:20

breathless in 1960. now if you want to start by looking at french new wave i would advise you to go

18:28

the breathless room i'd i'd look at breathless by godard and then i'd look at le catra

18:34

song the 400 blows by truffaut both the 400 blows by truffaut and both

18:42

breathless are really really accessible films and they're films that will allow you to sort of begin to understand and

18:49

appreciate the themes and issues um that were explored but also the film

18:54

techniques used because after breathless goddard got very very experimental

19:01

breathless is still recognizable as a film with narrative

19:06

and characters the 400 blows by truffaut is a beautiful film it's a beautiful film about a boy

19:12

who's growing up he's got very um his parents are

19:18

fairly immoral they give him money when they do bad things to not say anything he's got a very glamorous mum he gets

19:26

kicked out of school he ends up at the equivalent uh i guess the equivalent would be a boar stall and you've got

19:33

this wonderful end scene when you've got this tracking shot of him escaping from his for want of a better expression

19:38

borstal and running towards the sea and you've got this amazing tracking shot

19:43

as antoine duane ellis is running literally to nowhere but to kind of everywhere

19:50

it's a beautiful beautiful shot so for me if you want to start you know thinking about the french new wave and

19:56

having a look i'd go breathless by godard 400 blows by

20:01

true foe okay um now let's

20:07

kind of look at who we're talking about um that cool cat on the left is jean

20:14

luke goddard oh my goodness does he reckon himself if you had to sort of

20:19

apply you know remember i'm using the word stereotype you know if you had to go to

20:25

sort of stereotypical you know cigarette smoking wine drinking

20:30

french film director you wouldn't need to go any further than jean-luc goddard

20:35

he was just this cool guy and on the right we have francoise truffaut and as you can kind of see i've

20:41

deliberately almost um i've started with talking about godard political marxist

20:48

kind of a cool guy experimental films as essays and then on the right we've got

20:54

truffaut who kind of like you know was slightly more traditional liked hitchcock enjoyed making films that were

21:01

more narrative based

21:07

okay so um there's kind of you know there's my take on godard can i just say

21:15

i did not nick that quote i didn't it's not my quote he said it goddard

21:21

said famously one day and i won't do it a french accent because that's completely patronizing and there's no need for it but he once

21:28

said i want to reduce film language to degree zero literally he wanted to just

21:34

you know in in the words of a song by the post punk band the redskins he

21:39

wanted to kick kick down the statues he wanted to literally you know the the iconoclasts he wanted to destroy the

21:46

iconic class and just kick down the statues so that was his approach he was really out there and really experimental

21:54

this guy truffaut again you can see i'm kind of sort of like playing off the whole goddard truffaut thing there's truffaut

22:02

doing a cheeky little bit of deep focus um again deep focus wasn't new but deep

22:07

focus was used quite extensively by a particularly true foe and other french

22:13

new way filmmakers deep focus helps to develop more of a sense of realism you have

22:21

everything in the frame rather than something for example just the subject in the foreground again deep

22:28

focus stereotypically tends to be linked with ideas

22:33

of realism um there's his best mate hitchcock

22:39

as i said he liked him he admired him um he interviewed him uh for hours and

22:45

hours and hours he didn't just like him he came over to this country when when hitchcock was

22:50

in this country and spent a long time interviewing him and asking him about things like the altur

22:57

theory his filmmaking techniques so you've got all of these influences that are feeding in to very very

23:05

different filmmakers indeed look at that image for mutual admiration true foe on

23:11

the deck and alfred hitchcock almost paternalistically sort of

23:17

peering down at him yes my boy you're my prodigy

23:23

okay um i think we're nearly there for a clip um i think a few more images just

23:29

to kind of get a feel of it um that's a clip i've deliberately showed you because

23:35

you know to give you ideas about just how experimental um

23:41

filming techniques were imagine how difficult it was to get cameras up there

23:46

this is a film called paris nusa pation which i think i've already said in the slide means paris belongs to us made by

23:53

jacques river the irony is paris belongs to us was a political film

23:59

about how alienated immigrants didn't feel part of the environment that

24:06

they lived in hence the term um paris belongs to us

24:13

this is what i mentioned earlier this is this is the end sequence of 400 blows um

24:18

this is antoine duarnell running to the shore but of course it's also

24:24

a shot of truffaut filming it now the other thing i haven't mentioned is

24:30

the idea of um filming from moving vehicles

24:36

they loved it the french new way filmmakers put films on the bonnets of cars they put films on bicycles they put

24:43

films on mopeds loads and loads and loads of french new way films

24:49

have these obsessive but really quite interesting and challenging tracking shots from moving vehicles and you can

24:56

see here truffaut on the bonnet of what i can vaguely describe i guess as a car

25:03

with his crew following him as his final tracking shot of antoine duanell

25:10

as he runs to the sea and literally you know to support what we said earlier

25:15

you just have a freeze frame the end of this film is about 20 seconds away from this particular

25:21

screenshot and the end of this film is a screenshot of the central character antoine

25:27

juanelle just moving his head and they freeze the frame and that is

25:34

the end of the film a complete lack of traditional resolution i.e there is no actual ending

25:42

to speak of uh again um just to sort of reinforce um

25:49

how committed these filmmakers were to kind of getting cameras everywhere to

25:54

kind of get in cameras on the top of roofs um obviously you can see uh la

25:59

tourfell the eiffel tower in the background um it was very paris centric now that's a real

26:07

difference to to if you think about the british social realist film movement a lot of the films were set in the

26:13

industrial north um a lot of films that belong to the french new way film

26:18

movement were very much paris centered and i don't mean france

26:24

centered i mean paris-centered i would argue i've been criticized for saying this but i'd argue it's almost a

26:31

it's almost a parisian film movement as much as a french film movement

26:38

um all right so that's a clip from a film

26:43

called bicycle thieves it's an italian neo-realist film the only reason i'm showing you this is the italian

26:50

neo-realists filmed in cities tried the best they could

26:57

to strap cameras to mopeds to to to cars

27:02

by the time the french new wave filmmakers made films the technology had moved on and they could do it a little

27:08

bit easier but really that sort of technique and that filmmaking technique owes a lot to

27:15

french new to sorry to to italian neorealists

27:20

and the only reason i'm going to show you this shot again from bicycle thieves is to also link how italian

27:27

neorealist films were a realist but be

27:33

romanticized so this is a guy who puts up posters he puts up posters

27:40

and someone nicks his bike and he spends the film trying to find out who's nicked his bike

27:46

and that's basically it for the italian neorealist film bicycle thieves but look

27:52

at that emotive shot so things like this were borrowed heavily from italian nerealism yes

28:00

realism but yes the romantic the romanticized representation of realism that i believe

28:07

i i called it earlier poetic realism

28:12

right we are unusually for me this is good timing we're about sort of five minutes away from the first clip um

28:19

before i play the first clip i'll come back to the chat and just double check with anything you guys want to ask me um

28:25

this is a clip from goddard's second feature called vivra savi

28:31

you can say it's it's my life or my life to live that's the rough translation

28:36

um i'm leading up to showing you the first clip this is another french new wave

28:42

film that had strong female representation this is about a character who leaves her

28:48

husband and it's about her existentialist struggle to exist

28:54

and to motivate herself to carry on you've got loads of long takes in this

28:59

film loads of experimental long takes where it doesn't cut there's the central character again

29:06

i'd say it has a strong feminist narrative like

29:12

our first clip and our first clip is from this

29:18

particular film now what i'll do is i'll come back to you before we sort of think about that

29:25

um the first thing i've seen is may we fantastic okay um rooftop filming

29:32

reminding me the preview the paris olympics yeah absolutely um really really interesting yeah wheelchair

29:38

wheelchairs even chris absolutely uh they they put cameras on whatever had

29:43

wheels they really really did and chris's comments quite interesting here um he always says interesting things chris

29:49

um they literally tried their best to kind of innovate as best as they

29:57

could now i mentioned the term gorilla film making earlier it kind of was a little bit like that you know they were kind of

30:04

naughty boys and girls in many ways in in some of their filming techniques you know they didn't ask permission to get

30:10

into a lot of places where where you'd be turfed out of now they'd film on whatever they could find so yeah

30:16

absolutely so very much sort of guerrilla technique to filmmaking

30:22

enough time for our first clip wish me luck because i've loaded it up on youtube um

30:28

and i hope it doesn't buffer because i've got a clip of it but it's a bit of a rubbish clip if it does buffer i'll

30:34

divert to the mp4 clip and we'll kind of look at it that way but i think what i'll do first of all

30:41

is introduce the clip to you guys because it's important and it's also important because it's

30:47

it's agnes vada you know people talk a lot about the boys the uh the true foes and the goddards

30:53

and the eric romers and the jacques rivets agnes varda was an astonishing filmmaker we only lost her a few years

31:00

ago she was an incredible filmmaker and in cleo from five to seven

31:06

um it was a film basically about a very glamorous singer

31:11

a very glamorous singer who was told she might have cancer and for a lot of the film she wanders

31:18

around paris she meets various people at the end of the film she meets a guy called antoine who's a soldier who's

31:25

just come back from the war in algeria and essentially um

31:31

what the film is about is kind of how we reflect on ourselves um at the end of

31:37

the film by the way it's called from five to seven because her doctor's appointment is at 6 30 and that's the

31:44

only reason why it's called from five to seven so she wanders around waiting for her doctor's appointment at 6 30 to be

31:50

told she definitely has or has not gonna have a course of radiotherapy for her cancer

31:56

that's the only reason it's called clio from five to seven and just to sort of you know reiterate the end of the film

32:03

quite a political end of the film because she meets this up with this french soldier who's just come back from

32:08

algeria um and he tells her how selfish she is she

32:13

explains how fearful she is of her cancer diagnosis and he absolutely rips into her and says

32:19

look out in algeria people are dying for nothing so

32:24

there the film kind of squeezes in political narratives about obviously north africa and algeria

32:32

as an ex-french colony but it also brilliantly manages to put

32:37

in this incredibly strong feminist narrative and as i said i'm a

32:43

really really big fan of agnes varda so my only question to you is um

32:49

what's your first impressions of this clip it's only a short two minute clip

32:54

of her kind of wandering through paris waiting for a diagnosis at 6 30 to

33:01

confirm or deny so i will screen share now and fingers crossed

33:07

we have it still up loaded on youtube an additional fingers crossed

33:14

it does not buffer so here we go here's our first clip and i'll come back to you i'm happy to

33:21

to take any contacts okay image fine but the sound is buffering a bit thank you chris for letting me know okay so as

33:28

long as the image was fine that's fine i'll talk a bit about obviously that particular clip um

33:33

if you've got any comments um i've i've got the chat up now and i can kind of interact with you guys um

33:40

about what you've got to say i'll talk to you about it and i'll explain to you how typical this is of a french new wave

33:46

film and anything you want to add please throw in now for me it's typical of a french new

33:54

wave film because of its realist representations um interesting someone said she's dressed

34:00

like a widow i've never really thought about that yeah use of sound from a child playing a piano

34:06

various that that single note um various other french new a filmmakers

34:13

have used that kind of almost emotive single note in their films really interesting

34:18

comments already um i mean i was going to talk about the camera work hopefully some of you noticed um

34:26

yes strong visual image men in doorway non-actors let's use that comment by

34:31

elena to talk about non-actors like italian neo-realism this film and

34:38

french new wave films are full of non-paid actors if you like sort of

34:43

reinforcing what i would describe as the very similitude which is a ridiculously long word that simply means realism

34:51

yeah ian you're saying deliberately low-key in the background music like life yeah there was a bleak

34:56

it kind of was bleak wasn't it um direct sound going to pick up on ian's comment here

35:02

direct sound was a real feature of french new way filmmaking again sort of reinforcing the

35:09

um realist representations yeah joe shot from a high level they put cameras

35:15

linking to chris's comment about the wheelchairs they put cameras wherever they could put cameras including

35:21

wherever possible aerial shots wide shots tracking shots um as joe said here

35:27

a low a long tracking shot of her walking along the street well done from a moving vehicle very that shot that

35:35

half the reason i chose that clip as joey's saying is because of that shot

35:40

that type of shot is almost iconic to french new wave film directors someone

35:47

walking along a pavement and a tracking shot a long take tracking shot that resists a

35:54

cup that follows her from any type of moving image vehicle they could possibly

36:00

find i knew someone had mentioned the frogs i forgot i forgot to give you a government health warning this clip contains frog

36:07

swallowing uh apologies for that amanda you said like the frog swallower

36:12

was he one of the public yeah he he was an entertainer he was an entertainer in paris uh the piano plinky plonk sounds

36:18

quite wistful uh yeah absolutely uh it's been used before in a number of different french new wave productions so

36:24

yeah this guy was a street entertainer and that was the whole point obviously

36:30

uh the actress that plays clio is a paid actor was a paid actor but a lot of

36:36

other people that appeared in the film including mr frog swallower um was a

36:41

non-paid actor he was a street performer i love what the camera does as well if you when you first see her it kind of

36:48

resists a traditional cut and it just follows her in long take as she approaches um that gate at the start

36:55

of the clip and it totally challenges traditional ways of editing scene where

37:00

you would cut from maybe a shot of her walking towards the camera you then put the camera by

37:06

the gate and the shot of her would be from maybe the point of view of the gate then you probably cut again and have the

37:12

camera on the road but they resisted all of these traditional techniques so editing and camera work was quite

37:19

innovative and as joe was saying then she walks down the street uh classic new wave tracking shot don't forget the

37:26

handheld camera as she looks up at the health food shop the camera whip pans up with her

37:34

and handheld camera here is in point of view it's kind of reflecting the

37:39

movement of the human eye ian interesting undramatic avoiding an arty style

37:46

yeah there was a lack of pretension in clio i mean i could show you another

37:52

clip of cleo that's super pretentious where agnes vardy uses split screen in a cafe and you'd be like oh goodness

37:57

gracious me this is super experimental but it kind of i i get that you know it kind of lacked

38:04

it lacked that pretension that some arty experimental films can have and yes wendy her expression is

38:12

very unemotional and that really is an interesting comment because the last

38:17

frame of this film is her looking towards the camera in a similar way that antoine duarnell

38:24

in 400 blows looks towards the camera she looks towards the camera

38:29

and just wistfully smiles and that for me symbolizes

38:34

her lack of fear because right at the end of this film the doctor rolls by and tells us she has

38:41

got cancer sorry to completely ruin it for all of you tells us she has got cancer and she must

38:46

undergo a course of radiotherapy but because of antoine because of antoine the soldier

38:53

she's almost conquered her fear and it's really interesting because she's clearly from a very wealthy

38:58

glamorous background and it's all about how we kind of reflect on ourself

39:05

now i'm aware of the time i i want to squeeze in mr charles aznavour for you

39:11

and i want to link it to mr frog swallower um i will explain why um

39:17

so that was a film by agnes varda called cleo from five to seven

39:22

what i'm going to link it with is a truffaut film called tire pianist

39:28

that means shoot the pianist now this is more traditional filmmaking as we said

39:33

earlier truffaut was more of a if you can say he adhered to more hollywood tradition

39:39

but still experimented um this is a scene where the famous french crooner charles

39:46

aznavour and funnily enough he plays a character called charlie so the famous

39:51

french crooner charles aznavour um basically

39:57

um has two brothers so charles has the charlie character played by charles

40:02

aznavour is a sort of out on his luck piano player who makes a few quid

40:07

playing in bars surprise surprise subterranean bars in cool smoky paris

40:14

so he's this like washed up piano player who's down on his luck his wife

40:20

sadly has just committed suicide so he's got these two really bad boy

40:25

brothers um who kind of drag him into their their sort of crime world and in this scene

40:32

i'm going to show you charlie playing the piano his brother is next to him

40:37

two gangsters arrive charlie played by charles aznavour managed to manage to get his brother

40:44

out of the back door but it's what happens next that's for me absolutely remarkable in this particular

40:53

scene and i'm going to say nothing more than getting you to kind of think well

40:59

what's happening now and it seems to be going on and on and on so this is

41:07

starts off with this scene where two gangsters come in homage to

41:12

american crime thrillers charlie aznavour has got the dodgy brother he opens the back door they

41:18

escape but it's what happens next that's so peculiar and

41:24

so french new wave and that's it that's all i'm going to say here is the clip from shoot the pianist

41:38

i've called it skiffle um even though it's probably not skiffle music some of you might want to

41:44

correct me on that [Applause]

41:57

[Applause]

42:04

foreign

42:17

[Music]

42:28

hey [Music]

42:46

[Music]

43:13

[Music]

43:21

[Music]

43:37

foreign

43:48

foreign

44:03

[Music] foreign [Music]

44:23

[Music]

44:30

okay so so you'd be uh you'd be forgiven for thinking that um there's a complete disconnect

44:37

with what just happened with the previous scene the gangsters come in standard narrative film

44:44

uh charlie manages to sort of get them to the back door they escape and then you have this really quite odd

44:51

prolonged performance now i'm kind of interested as to what your comments are on this i can tell you why they did it

44:59

but you know as i'm saying that to you um try and think about the whole idea of

45:06

disconnected pieces of film the guy's name and i'll probably not

45:11

pronounce it correctly the guy singing was bobby lapois now charles azdavor was a really

45:18

well-known singer at the time and bobby lapois went on to become a very very famous

45:26

singer um probably because of his appearance in shoot the pianist

45:32

and it was almost an audition it was almost an audition and a performance smack bang in the middle

45:39

of a crime narrative which again was very very peculiar so you've got this

45:44

narrative event that takes place you've got characters you've got an escape you've got a homage to

45:52

traditional crime narratives but then suddenly for the bulk of the scene

45:57

um we're treated to a disconnected performance of someone

46:02

performing traditional french music in a smoky bar

46:09

so really interesting you've got these really long takes on the performance and you think hang on shouldn't we be then

46:15

shouldn't shouldn't the scene we'll be looking at now was with his brother his brother being chased down the street by

46:20

the gangsters oh no truffaut holds the camera on the performer for at least three

46:27

minutes until the song completes so for me this poetic realist term this

46:34

poetic realism is perfectly illustrated by this particular clip

46:39

this this need to kind of like literally shake things up you've got this crime fiction

46:46

narrative but you've got representation of french culture through a singer who

46:52

almost performs um yeah okay so interesting so someone said maybe to defuse the situation yeah

47:00

he kind of he jumps in there to kind of make sure everything's all right but what's really interesting is it just

47:06

goes on and on and on and on joe you're saying is it because that's what reality

47:12

is the people in the pub don't know the gangsters they ran out through the roof yeah i get that i totally get that but

47:18

you'd expect within a sort of um i guess within a sort of narrative chain of cause and effect you'd affect that

47:26

you'd expect the next scene to be you know something linked to the brother

47:31

escaping so i i do find that interesting and also i love truffaut as much as i

47:36

love goddard i probably sneakily preferred truefo i probably i'd i describe him as a

47:42

romantic humanitarian i i find his films more interesting because they're

47:47

character-based and you've said um parisian street people rather than the

47:53

plot yeah that's interesting uh diana charlie carrying on as a distraction from his brother's escape yeah

47:59

absolutely i think all of these are very very legitimate readings

48:04

but for me i just love the disconnect that was classic french new wave yeah

48:11

i've got a comment here that's interesting as naval behind the singer yeah absolutely even though he's kind of

48:17

in blurred focus you find yourself you find yourself staring at charles aznavour you're absolutely right that's

48:23

a really interesting comment um the performer in the foreground this time no deep

48:30

focus in shallow focus in the background you have charles hasnevor

48:35

uh chris comment here some of goddard's films have very peculiar musical interludes yeah absolutely la chinois

48:43

totally um i do find use of music people haven't written

48:49

much about use of music in french new way film people talk about the camera work the

48:54

editing uh challenges to traditional filmmaking direct sound but not much is

49:01

said linking to chris's comment about use of music

49:07

okay so cleo um still a pianist um

49:12

if i may and please just tell me to stop when it's time to stop something completely different let's go

49:20

to godard now we've got agnes bada we've gone truffaut um and i mentioned breathless so can i

49:27

just show you a few slides linked to the 1960 film breathless just to kind of

49:32

give you a flavor for goddard's first feature

49:39

so i'll just scroll through all of my stuff here here we go

49:44

so there he is directing breathless so i've described it uh python style as now

49:50

for something completely different he even looks cool when he's directing the film he looks annoyingly cool this

49:56

gentleman okay jean-paul belmondo some of you might know that we lost this gentleman

50:02

very very recently he died about a couple of weeks ago um he was the star

50:07

of breathless michelle and patricia were the two main characters in breathless um michelle

50:15

was a a character who had an obsession with humphrey bogart link into goddard's

50:22

homage to classical hollywood cinema um michelle um is a small-time criminal

50:28

patricia is an american in paris who makes her live in selling newspapers on

50:34

the sean's elise so it's a crime fiction narrative about this very naughty boy

50:39

michelle played by the amazing jean-paul belmondo who is obsessed with humphrey bogart can

50:47

i just show you a 30 second clip to explain what i mean by

50:53

obsessed with humphrey bogart and how breathless does pay homage to american

50:59

film nars so here is a very very short clip

51:05

explaining the whole thing about humphrey bogart and the

51:10

michelle character look in the background and you'll see the poster for humphrey bogart so only a very short

51:17

clip but very useful for seeing the whole

51:23

homage to american cinema that runs through for me breathless and let

51:30

me know via the chat i hope in a second i've got time to show the clip i'll come

51:35

back to the chat before i show the clip just to make sure we have got time to see it because that will be our last

51:41

clip and pretty much our last work for today um i read that bogard had actually a

51:47

problem with his lip i think he endured some sort of whether it's a war injury or he did have a problem with his lip

51:54

and if you if you look at bogard in films the whole beau guard lip is really important and here clearly

52:02

the bow guard lip is important in homage to godard through the michelle character

52:08

there's the two characters in breathless michelle and patricia um the two actors at the time were were darlings they they

52:14

were the lovelies of cinema um jean-paul belmondo and sieberg were were

52:20

well-known they were fashion icons it was a cool film um i mean i i teach

52:26

adult ed right the way down to gcse and if you ask me to introduce the french

52:31

new wave to let's say 18 to 19 year olds i'd go straight to this film because it's kind

52:38

of the coolest trendiest french new wave film that perhaps

52:43

the teenager could relate to but of course the french new wave as we've talked about is a lot more than that but

52:49

i thought i'd i'm quite pleased i've had time to end with breathless um so the clips coming up very shortly

52:56

um that's a screenshot from the clip i'll come back to the chat just to make

53:01

sure we're okay it's about a three minute clip my question to you is as it says here on

53:06

the slide i think you can see in this clip compared to say

53:12

agnes varda compared to truffaut i think you can see goddard is a more experimental filmmaker

53:19

i can i i think you'll see how goddard is much more disruptive in

53:25

his cinematic technique in this clip than perhaps the other clips you've seen

53:31

so just to make sure i'm okay with that um i'll come back and have a quick look

53:36

at the chat um no one's telling me we can't show the clip so that's absolutely fine here we

53:42

go so here is our last clip of the day and this is from breathless

53:57

hey um so if if i was to tell students um

54:04

to go and make a terrible film they'd probably come back and it'd be something like that um fiona how are we

54:10

for time are we okay or should we sort of be wrapping rapping in a second um we probably should wrap up in a little

54:16

second because there are a couple of questions perhaps that we would maybe like to ask before we go and we are

54:22

going to run on by a few minutes so i'm sure nobody will okay well i'll summarize that clip just briefly and then what i'll do is i'll go

54:29

straight to your questions and anything we can see on the chat okay so essentially everything was wrong in that

54:35

particular clip the editing was wrong the lighting was wrong the camera work was wrong uh there was a

54:42

disconnected narrative but all as goddard would like to say

54:47

reducing film language degree zero you had the camera in the car you had the

54:53

camera um inside the car shooting out onto the road um it reminds me of a

54:59

later film by goddard called weekend it looks almost like the same the same actual shot and you have use of jump cut

55:06

when the policeman comes in there is no shot reverse shot there is literally a jump cut that completely

55:13

disrupts the audience and you then see him bizarrely running away across the field there is a complete lack of

55:20

narrative continuity um that for me is a really good clip to

55:25

illustrate the experimentation of godard and how in terms of film language he

55:30

really wanted to push the envelope as far as he could um okay let's go to questions um back to

55:37

you fiona that was great rob we got through a hell of a lot there didn't we we did

55:43

actually liked your new name for bruce willis i have to say yeah bruce monkeys yeah

55:48

[Laughter] okay so there was just a couple of comments that had come in when we were looking at

55:55

some of the clips actually that we we didn't really look at and and i suppose in all of the clips this

56:00

applies to and there was a comment from jane liddell about hearing people's voices as they're

56:07

expressing their inner thoughts is that a particular feature of french new wave or

56:13

not really i mean i mean the direct sound thing's interesting um i've noticed a lack of sync as well there's

56:19

often a la a lack of lip syncing in a lot of french new wave films and again that's sort of you know to experiment

56:25

and disrupt um people's perception of what they expect to see i wouldn't i wouldn't say

56:31

typically no okay that's interesting and another comment um from anna and particularly

56:38

around the second clip where we had our singer she's saying that any feminist new

56:43

webers might have shot the lyricist yes yeah

56:49

i made i made a point of actually yeah i before i played it i looked at it you know it was it was a product of its time

56:56

culturally yeah absolutely um i don't think you know going from the sort of

57:01

strident what i think is feminist films of agnes vardar to potentially you know the

57:08

lyrics of that song yeah there was a bit of a disjunct there as well i'll take that but yeah it was a very much a

57:14

product of its time interesting okay and i'm actually going

57:20

to come right back up to the top of the chat here we had something from chris this is when

57:25

you were talking about french new wave not necessarily having an ending

57:31

films of that genre and chris is saying wasn't it godard who said a film should have a beginning a middle and an end but

57:38

not necessarily in that order yeah can i very quickly i've got a couple of

57:43

quotes that i really wanted to show you guys can i just literally it'll take me two seconds that

57:49

links directly to that question um because i'd kind of finished my presentation

57:54

with some slides that had quotes on the french new wave this is quite an

58:00

interesting one breathless is a as a dialogue between two worlds the stylized romanticism of hollywood and the banal

58:07

on cinematic life um this is trufo himself saying the french new wave is

58:13

neither a film movement or a school or a group it's a quality so it's really

58:18

interesting what chris is saying about you know there are so many conflicting statements by the film directors

58:25

themselves including something like this where they're denying that they were

58:30

actually part of a film movement but i think previous to our conversation during the week fiona i think this one

58:36

um thankfully i've had time to end on um my old film studies tutor at university

58:42

ray dergnat said yeah you know he wrote this seminal book on the french new wave and then he

58:47

turned around and said well new wave same ocean essentially what he was saying was yes the french new wave was a very

58:54

innovative film movement um but it was another film movement as part of the big ocean

59:00

of film history so chris interesting comment yeah i mean you know i i've read

59:05

so many conflicting denials about narrative non-narrative um how they

59:11

wanted a narrative how they want how that how there was a sort of i mean if you look at clio

59:16

there's kind of a lack of narrative arcs there's a lot of mini narratives in cleo

59:21

as she talks to lots of different people as she's wandering through the streets of paris so narrative is this huge area

59:27

of study you could probably spend another term on

59:32

thank you so much for that rob i think we're going to have to to end it there because out of time i'm afraid um that was great

59:40

and i'm sure everybody really appreciated and enjoyed the interactivity of that

59:46

i'm just going to stop recording now okay

English (auto-generated)


 

Lecture

A West African empire: life in the middle ages

There are long held myths and stereotypes about Africa and African people and in this lecture we will challenge these through an exploration of life in one of the ancient African empires in the 14th and 15th centuries.  

As Black History Month in October approaches, join us to discover different aspects of life including education, trade, manufacturing and architecture and how Africans lived before European arrival.

Video transcript

0:00

so that's us recording now so kwame without any further ado it's over to yourself

0:11

just some new myself yes thank you thank you fiona nice to see everybody there um so i'll

0:17

just go straight into my uh to share my screen and show the

0:23

presentation

0:30

that should be oh okay

0:35

uh yes can everybody everybody see that

0:41

yeah yep good good okay yeah so

0:46

here we are oh yeah so the title of the lecture today life in an ancient african empire

0:55

um so yes so thanks for the introduction fiona um special thanks

1:01

to you for inviting me thanks to everybody for

1:06

uh spending your time with me today and the main sources for this lecture

1:12

today are books from professor sheikh antodiop called pre-colonial black

1:19

africa when we ruled by my teacher robin walker and timbuktu the mysterious

1:28

by a major felix dubois so those are the main sources there are other sources but

1:33

these are the the crucial three so the underlying

1:39

message from this uh lecture is about challenging the myths

1:45

challenging the myths the stereotypes about africa and africans

1:52

so can i i think everybody can hear me clearly

1:57

i'm not too loud not too low yes no you sound absolutely fine to me kwame

2:02

that's good right thank you so what when we're talking about challenging myths and stereotypes for

2:09

example if we look at surgery in early africa um who would even think about surgery in

2:17

early africa well in 1886

2:22

around 1879 a group from edinburgh university

2:29

university hospital went to uganda and they went to uganda to look at a

2:36

procedure that um they were having trouble with in fact around europe um this procedure

2:43

they they could only get like 50 um success rates

2:49

so they went all the way to uganda to see this procedure where they were getting 100 percent

2:56

success rates and that procedure was a cesarean protection

3:02

so the surgeons in uganda were regularly

3:08

saving the mother and the child during this procedure

3:14

now around europe up to this time you would either

3:19

surgeons would either lose a mother or lose the child so because um robert falcon was actually

3:26

the lead surgeon in the group that went from edinburgh because he'd heard about

3:33

this um these people in uganda actually called the bernardo people

3:40

b-u-n-y-o-r-o people of uganda

3:46

so he led that group to go to uh to see this um

3:53

to see this in action and what he found was that this was a tried and tested procedure

3:59

it's not like it's something they just picked up because obviously surgeons can recognize other surgeons work so what

4:06

they realize is that these people were highly skilled highly trained they were

4:12

also using totally using um instruments that they had made

4:19

themselves and the uganda people had made themselves they were using plant herbs

4:24

for um i could say anesthetizing so everything was done in

4:30

a natural in a natural way so that's the first of um challenging

4:36

stereotypes the next one is we think of churches and

4:41

castles churches and castles we would never think of africa as a place for

4:48

especially something like castles we think of um middle age

4:54

england so these are examples one on the right

5:00

we've got a castle in a place called gundam this is in ethiopia

5:07

and ethiopia is known for its castles and churches so this one is like a 10th

5:14

10th century but there are many there are quite a few castles in

5:19

ethiopia ethiopia is known for castles but there's also castles in other parts of africa but i just wanted to focus on

5:27

on this one because this one is still there today we have drawings of others in other

5:34

parts of africa but we don't actually have photographs so i thought it's important to show this the one on the

5:40

left is one of a set of churches

5:45

again within ethiopia this is one of 11 major churches in ethiopia

5:52

and the special thing about these these type of churches is that

5:57

they weren't built they were carved because if you look you can see the tree on the right

6:04

and my cursor you can see the tree here on the right um and that is showing where the ground

6:11

starts so this church has been cut out of the rock

6:16

so it's been carved this church has been carved so that's what makes this special

6:23

okay so that's just a couple of examples um

6:28

how to pronounce names i was just going to go over any how to pronounce names will but we'll do that at the end

6:35

um so we're going to concentrate on life in the middle age african empire and this

6:42

is actually the it's called the sungai empire so we're in west africa

6:49

that's the map of africa um we're going to the left-hand side here

6:55

west africa focusing mainly below algeria here

7:00

most of this area here in the in the center of this western part

7:07

so when we talk of the three main west african empires we talk first of

7:14

the ghana empire that was later superseded

7:20

by a larger empire the mali empire we're going to talk a

7:26

bit more about the mali empire as well and then later

7:31

where we are now we're looking at the i stopped working for some reason

7:37

my cursor oh

7:42

okay okay here we go um so now we're talking about the song empire now we're in the we're into the

7:50

15th century 14th late 14th 15th century

7:56

um and when we're talking of this empire we're talking about empire that covered as we

8:04

can see there it's quite big it's covered about two-thirds of the whole of

8:10

west africa and that makes it one of the largest political units

8:15

in the 15th 16th century that's one of the largest political units anywhere in

8:21

the world so

8:26

some of the sounds we're going to be talking about uh canoe

8:32

can people see this cursor moving is it can yeah okay thanks

8:39

good uh so this cano in this uh bottom region here we're going to focus on kano uh timbuk2 is a

8:46

major part of the talk today and gaza we're going to touch on tagaza but

8:53

timbuktu was like the cultural capital of this whole sungai empire and it was

8:59

even the capital of the previous empire the mali empire so timbuktu is um a

9:04

major part of this empire so manufacturing played a major part

9:13

in this society and as i said i talked of cano

9:20

at the bottom there was the center of leather

9:25

leather manufacturing so now just to give you an idea you can

9:31

see where the where the people are in this picture and you can see this mountain behind

9:36

them this mountain is a mountain of hides

9:42

just to give you an idea so this mountain of heights um you can see by 1851

9:50

the africans of cano were exporting [Music] 10 million heights

9:58

10 million hides but 5 million of a certain product

10:03

that they were manufacturing and again when we're talking about um

10:11

challenging myths stereotypes one of the biggest myths about africans

10:17

especially in ancient days is africans were running around with no clothes on

10:22

or no shoes on their feet so when we talk about challenging those type of myths here we see

10:29

what they were making this is what they were making um as early as the 13th

10:36

14th 15th century people were making these as we can see

10:41

they're quite extravagant uh shoes sandals

10:47

and as we can see here different colors very intricate work

10:52

um these here with the these are ostrich feathers these here

10:57

with the ostrich feathers are a later example and these are actually dated around the 15th century

11:05

as you can see here on the right they've even got these quite elaborate boots

11:11

so and again when we're talking about proof because it's always important to have proof of things like these

11:17

these we can see examples of these in museums around the world and for example the

11:24

british museum has examples of these um those of you who are from leeds if

11:30

anybody but it is from yorkshire the leeds area leeds museum

11:36

this museum has a storehouse called the discovery center

11:41

and you will actually see examples of these in the discovery center so and i've seen i've seen these myself i've

11:47

been there to the discovery center so they are there um so yeah so that shoes

11:55

the other thing also they made with leather was pillowcases bookcases and saddles

12:03

now manufacturing also included a thriving clothing industry again

12:08

challenging these myths and again when we're looking at this 15th century tongai girl we're seeing

12:15

very elaborate robes that she's wearing there you know multi-pattern so again not something

12:22

simple very elaborate just like the design she's got on her hair around her neck

12:27

people were very um very how can we say very detailed about

12:33

the kind of things they were wearing so they they'd have a neck bracelets arm bracelets

12:39

uh anklets you know very very much um elaborate in the way people were wearing

12:46

their clothes now anytime

12:51

king kings in the song dynasty sungai empire were called askies any

12:58

time a new ascii was brought to the throne he was accompanied in a very solemn

13:05

ceremony and you see these robes they've got on but the another key thing about

13:10

them is they're hooded so they would approach this ceremony these people

13:15

marching with hooded robes on so even though the idea of hoodies you

13:21

can see is not a new thing it's actually an ancient thing and again elaborate

13:27

clothes and not only men

13:33

who are robbed here we can see this woman um a noble woman from timbuktu again very elaborate clothes

13:40

and even in her hair we're seeing um like brooches and trinkets and these

13:45

things were like gold silver she's even got a pipe which again is um

13:54

we will um align that with stit that's very much a status symbol when we see a woman

14:00

with a pipe we see that's very much a noble person

14:08

for trade just like most cities around the world through the ages trade was a

14:15

key part of the sungai empire and one of the key items of trade was

14:22

gold gold was from the south

14:28

in fact a bit further maybe like nyani around around the niyani area down here

14:35

[Music] and

14:41

this is a famous mali king so mali as i said was the the previous

14:47

empire to some guy this male king is known as the richest

14:53

person who ever lived even now today if you uh if you go online and put in

14:58

the name mansa musa and it's spelt just how it sounds mansa

15:05

musa two words you will see

15:10

that he's the richest person who ever lived something like 400

15:15

trillion something like that so so the richest person who ever lived and there you can see he's got his golden staff

15:23

his crown um a golden nub that people are not quite sure if that is actually a coin

15:30

or if it's a knob of gold there's still some argument about that but again we can see um

15:38

you know that we would equate that with wealth now on the left here we've got something called the catalan atlas

15:45

and it's this atlas that was made by a cartographer a portuguese cartographer

15:53

and it was actually made some years after mansa musa died so this was to show how the wealth of

16:00

mali like i said the empire that preceded sungai was renowned around the world

16:07

that they'd even they'd even put it on this on this map on this um international map

16:14

and and here at the bottom when we're talking of gold we've got um oh sorry

16:20

we've got here um the money changes the uh the merchants

16:26

and again we're seeing elaborate clothes so again no loin cloths or bear chested we're

16:32

seeing elaborate clothes now

16:38

gold as i said was one of the most important um trading items

16:43

but salt salt was actually on a par with gold and in the early days

16:49

of the sungai empire salt was actually a currency so salt would be mined

16:57

in the northern in the northern parts of the of the uh of the empire a place

17:02

called tagaza and it would be mined and if you look here at the left you can see something

17:09

like this big slab here so they would be mined and people would take these big

17:14

slabs and they would put them on these put them on camels and then bring them

17:20

from the north bring them to timbuktu and that's now where they would exchange

17:25

but then people would buy these salt slabs

17:31

and as i say in the early days they'd actually cut off a piece of this slab and then they would they would use that

17:37

as a medium of exchange because salt was so valuable [Music]

17:42

in these uh these countries near the near the sahara so um

17:48

yeah so so as we say uh salt in wealth was on a par with gold

17:58

so um if you have your salt bowl or salt shaker at home

18:05

i would uh guarantee that a 15th century salt ball salt shaker would be

18:12

better than anything you could imagine and here is

18:17

a 15th century cult shaker so these are what uh 15th century

18:24

africans were making and

18:30

in the in the ancient days people would would buy their

18:35

their um plates and cups things like that from from china which is where the name came from for china but the same

18:43

way they would buy their salt shakers from certain west african countries and

18:50

the tsanga empire is one of the places where people were buying their salt shakers

18:55

from and this is actually made from ivory so it's made in three pieces you've got

19:01

the top part there that's the the the part where that would stop and then um

19:07

here as well so that's a separate piece this is a separate piece and that's a separate piece so it's in three pieces

19:14

and again when we're talking about proof um again in the museums

19:19

european museums we've got about 800 of these so um again the british museum if you go

19:28

to the british museum they've got about six of these and again i've been there i've seen them for myself so yes there's

19:34

about six of these in the british museum but as i say about 800 of these and they

19:40

really are masterpieces these things really are priceless you know if you can imagine the type of work that's gone

19:46

into this you know making this up out of solid ivory you know it really is

19:51

amazing so that's that so now again challenging those myths and those

19:58

stereotypes we're going to look at education and writing

20:03

the visitor to book two as i said timbuktu the cultural capital of the song empire a

20:10

visitor says in timbuktu there are numerous judges doctors clerics all receiving good salaries from the king

20:18

he pays great respect to men of learning to scholars there's a big demand for books in

20:24

manuscript form because the books in those days um they didn't come in the book form as we know them they would

20:31

actually be in manuscripts written on parchment and it's after you get your

20:36

set of parchment sheets then you would get the the leather cases that i was talking about earlier on and put your

20:44

your pages into that so there's a big demand for books in manuscript form imported from north

20:52

africa and the key thing here is more profit is made from the book trade

20:58

than any other line of business so again breaking those stereotypes this is

21:04

showing now how important the the whole culture of reading of

21:11

education was to africans and especially here in timbuktu that was like a center

21:19

a global center where scholars would come to learn in timbuktu people would come to buy and sell books and books

21:28

were obviously um were written there created there so

21:33

and this was by a scholar called a traveler a moroccan traveler called leo

21:39

africanus and from his book a history and description of africa and that was in

21:44

1526 and above you can see a page from his

21:49

book and that's why i was looking at the part on literature and we can see here

21:55

scholars in the street um again showing very much that culture of

22:02

of uh education that culture of showing you know they'll be in the in the street

22:08

talking to each other over the the latest book that they've got comparing their books so there was very much a

22:15

culture of learning so we'd like to know what happened to

22:20

all those books did they just disappear well astonishingly enough those books are

22:27

still around there and when i say those books

22:32

in timbuktu alone we're talking about 700

22:38

000 of these books and that's just in timbuktu alone and these things now are

22:44

like family heirlooms so families treasure these things and pass them down

22:49

through through generations and they will they will hide them in their houses

22:55

because they're so precious it's like if you have gold or anything valuable you're going to hide it away in your

23:00

house so these these things even when scholars come today and try and get these from many of the owners many of

23:07

the families who have these families don't want to give them up because they they don't trust where they're going to

23:13

go you know these things are so so precious and the other thing as you'll see from this from the man on on the

23:20

right um [Music] they're very delicate some of these you can you hold the pages and they'll just

23:27

disintegrate so what some institutions now are trying to do is micro fish these

23:33

so that then that that preserves them for prosperity uh

23:39

and important thing in these books is you're looking at things like law mass architecture

23:47

astrology medicine so um a lot of the high sciences are

23:52

covered in these books

23:57

architecture as we move to near the end um this is the sankori mosque

24:06

so most of those subjects that we've talked about are taught in places like this um many of

24:13

the mosques these gigantic mosques that were built were because there were such centres of

24:19

learning they eventually became universities and um we're talking now from the

24:26

the as early as the 12th century up to the sungai empire where we're

24:32

talking about the 15th century but the the ruler that i was talking about earlier on mansa musa

24:38

he's one who really who really developed the idea of making

24:43

these mosques into educational centers so um he really goes down in history as

24:50

a person who really developed the whole idea of turning these mosques into educational

24:56

centers this is another um mosque that he built there we can see

25:03

1326. this is the this is a very famous mosque the

25:09

very mosque this is this is actually in a place called gna d j e double n e g a another

25:18

famous town in mali even in present day mali

25:25

so this again was a very famous town in the sungai empire

25:32

so what did a typical house look like well here we can see a street a typical

25:40

booktube street and again when we're talking of challenging these myths challenges these stereotypes you know we're not

25:46

seeing round hooks with such roofs you know we're seeing uh something that can be recognized as a

25:54

street we're seeing two-story housing here

26:00

we've seen the height of these houses because we see in in relation to the people passing and again this book by

26:06

the same author so a typical fungi villa

26:15

with at least two stories and again we can see here we can see where the people are and we can see how high this this

26:23

villa is now we're not saying that everybody in the empire would have a house like this this would obviously be

26:30

like for the richer people the noble people the merchants those kind of people but we can see it's a really

26:37

magnificent villa and it has uh

26:42

as we say two floors with kitchens bedroom storehouse

26:48

and one other room it had an upstairs toilet

26:54

and if we if we compare that with uh

27:00

15th 16th century england this is where people used to be throwing

27:06

out their toilet from their from the uh from the upstairs you know do their business in a pail and

27:12

throw it out into the street so again this thing of telling this challenging

27:17

these um stereotypes of africans as as backward i even remember when i

27:23

because i'm i was actually born and raised in england so i remember in the in the 60s

27:32

as a kid i remember we even had um external external toilets

27:37

you know i remember very much throughout the 60s um external toilets they were commonplace so again um external toilets

27:47

and yet here in the 15th and 16th century in deepest darkest africa we've got

27:53

people eating with upstairs inside toilets so um

27:59

yes so in challenging the missing stereotypes of africa and africans

28:04

what have we covered we've looked at the surgery um

28:10

we've looked at manufacturing and trade the gold trade the salt trade

28:18

looked at the clothing industry and how elaborate that was

28:25

looked at education books we've also talked about the early um

28:32

churches in other parts of africa churches um castles

28:39

and we've looked at the architecture of the sungai

28:44

empire so for further information

28:50

there's a book by czech antedioc called pre-colonial black

28:55

africa there's a book by robin walker called when we ruled

29:01

and there's a book called timbuktu the mysterious by a major felix dubois

29:10

so i feel very much that black history african history should educate uplift

29:16

and inspire and hopefully uh you've been uplifted educated and inspired

29:23

so thank you for listening and if there are any questions please feel free

29:31

over to you fiona thanks very much for that i mean that was great and i don't know whether you want to just stop sharing screen now oh

29:39

sorry yeah we can we can see you properly and we'll we'll go in thank you quite a few questions

29:46

um so certainly keep the questions coming in everybody i'm going to start from the top we've got lots of time for

29:52

questions so um let me start from the top now

29:58

first question now a couple of people actually mentioned this when you were

30:05

near the start of the lecture when you were talking about the hides and what species did they use and to

30:11

take hides from sorry what species of animal

30:16

it would it would be mostly cows mostly cows but i i would imagine goats

30:23

goats as well but yeah mostly mostly cow heights yeah because they're bigger you can do more more with them yeah

30:30

yeah okay um no you were also talking about early on

30:36

talking about you know women's women with a pipe being a sort of status

30:41

symbol yes what did they smoke in their pipes and was it the same for from both men and

30:47

women oh yes it's tobacco i mean tobacco was um very was

30:54

was well known was well known in africa but again as part of trading

30:59

um it's it's very it's very much a trading um item so it's something that would have i

31:07

don't think it would have been grown it wasn't indigenous to africa you know they would have been getting it from

31:12

other parts of the world yeah which again adds to the whole idea of of

31:18

status because when you're getting something from outside people you know it kind of adds status to that

31:24

yeah great okay um and we've got another question here from from guy richards um

31:31

you sh you you talked us through um the clothing um that was around at

31:37

the time and the the elaborateness of it um particularly the hooded robes

31:44

where these robes and shoes restricted to the to the nobility or

31:49

those with wealth or um were they weren't worn or widespread than that

31:56

to us to a certain extent it would be yeah like the uh maybe like the lower middle classes and

32:03

anything up from there who would be wearing those characters those kind of things yeah yeah

32:09

definitely definitely so yeah because like people in the villages because it's quite important that people realize that

32:15

um when we're talking about development advancement advancement always comes from the

32:22

the town centers you know in the villages you know there's going to be less it's going to

32:28

be less so so in the villages where people are farmers um things like things like that um

32:34

there's going to be less less wealth around so therefore when we're seeing those elaborate

32:41

um people who are farmers and people like that um what would be traditionally seen in

32:47

those societies as low as status people are not going to be able to afford afford those elaborate you know that

32:54

elaborate kind of clothing you know because the other thing as well we have to realize is that

33:01

very much um some guy these this empire it's a it's very much a caste

33:08

society so a caster site is where you have um

33:13

people's professions are passed down through the through the family line

33:18

so like if you are julia jeweller if you are a goldsmith something like that this

33:25

is passed down through your through your line you know like um army like uh you

33:30

know people from from uh the army people in the army you know these these professions are passed down so therefore

33:38

it's it's a bit like like today where that wealth kind of stays in

33:44

[Music] you know it stays in certain sectors of society

33:50

you know so um so so very much yeah those are the people who are going to be like the merchants things like that

33:57

those of people were then going to be able to afford um the the fancy shoes

34:03

the the elaborate clothes yeah very much so yeah okay thanks for that and i hope

34:09

that that answered your question guy um now we've got a few questions around what you were saying about about salt

34:16

and the fact was as almost as valuable as gold and now you were talking about slaves

34:23

who were the slaves that you mentioned and when you were talking about salt

34:28

who were what sorry who were the slaves that you mentioned no i'm sorry i was talking about i was

34:35

s-l-a-b a slab i was talking about

34:40

snl yeah i was saying they put the salt into big

34:46

slabs yeah that clears that one up right we've

34:52

still got some more questions about salt um this is a question from jane williams

34:58

and was salt literally used as a currency or was it used as barter

35:03

because of its high value yeah um in the early days it was

35:09

literally in the early days of the empire it was literally used as

35:14

um as a currency um at different different stages in the

35:19

society different things were used as currency so salt was used as currency at a time

35:26

calorie shells were even used as a currency and then later on obviously things like gold

35:32

yeah but um yes salt actually was used yeah as a currency and like i said

35:38

people would would um cut off peace and they would use that as a form of exchange but then later on yeah very

35:44

much as a barter some you might give somebody salt and then they'll give you something else but yeah very much in the

35:51

early days of the empire the assault itself was currency

35:56

and even we know that we know even in history that salt because of its value that's where

36:02

you get terms like salted you know you talk of somebody saying they're the salt of the earth because you know it means

36:08

they're a very good person there you know you we value them the salt of the earth again

36:14

when we look at terms like saline salary salary comes from salt

36:20

from the times when it was used as a currency so yeah i didn't know that that's very

36:26

interesting um okay um and another question on salt

36:31

and this is from humphrey davis apart dietary needs were there was there

36:36

any industrial use for the salt hmm good question um i must admit i

36:45

i don't know well in industry i mean from the from the fact of um

36:50

preserving you know preserving meat something like that so the you know the meat industry

36:57

um yes maybe from like that but that aside i can't i can't think of any i

37:02

don't know in my studies i haven't come across any of the use of salt um for any other type of industrial uh

37:10

use but um yeah very much for preserving food and um yeah and very much we need

37:16

it we we need salt for ourselves because when you sweat um people think you're just sweating at water but you're

37:22

actually sweating out nutrients and one of the main nutrients you're sweating out is salt so that's why we need you know we

37:29

need to replace it so yeah okay and you talked about the books um for

37:36

for out for a while um and chad was asking what language were these these old books written in

37:43

that's a good question um many languages i mean one of the

37:48

because like in like in england europe the the lingua franca was um especially amongst the

37:55

elite was um latin yeah so so in the song empire and the empire

38:03

prior to that the lingua franca was um

38:08

arabic islam so so a lot of these books were written

38:13

in arabic but they were also written in a lot of the local languages hauser fulani things

38:22

like that a lot of the local african languages yeah but um [Music]

38:28

arabic was a was a major one yeah okay interesting

38:33

and a couple of questions here that i suppose we could probably take together um

38:38

angela jensen was asking where men and women literate and also a kind of

38:44

similar question from from margaret parsons about how were people how were people educated

38:50

at that time yeah well again because of because of the influence of islam

38:57

um like we said a lot of there were a lot of mosques so again that was really the

39:04

one of the big um pushes the big uh what we call it really um

39:10

i forget the word but that was really um a big part of the the

39:15

whole education system the mosques because that that was a place where people were already um

39:21

reciting the quran you know for muslims they already recite the quran and they have to learn the quran off by heart so

39:30

in the education system you're getting like four-year-olds who are going through an education system where by 11

39:38

they could they could recite the quran you know just off by heart that was something they had to do

39:44

you know so um and when they're talking about an education system we're talking about a

39:49

system where um to get the degree somebody's studying for about 10 years

39:55

you know to get the to get the degree and then when you get a degree you you get a special turban that's uh that's

40:03

folded a cert a special way so yeah there was very much um

40:08

there was very much a set education system yeah and um [Music]

40:13

in fact when we look at the research what we're finding is that from 4 to 11

40:21

we're finding that this this empire people were very much

40:26

literate and literate to the point of being a hundred percent literate you know we have children from four to 11

40:32

being like 100 literate so so yeah um as i said it was very much a culture of education it's

40:40

something that people value very much yeah and i think that probably

40:45

yeah sorry to interrupt there and i think that probably answers your question humphrey davis about how much

40:51

arab and muslim influence there was in the education so i think you've probably answered that one and so does that mean

40:58

then um because i've got another question here from ruth siller does that then mean that

41:03

did the people mainly belong to that religion at that time

41:09

um there was there was a lot but what we have to realize is that

41:14

there's reasons why people talk to islam

41:19

and what we also have to remember is the backdrop to these empires is also there was um

41:26

something called the uh east african it started from east africa but there was

41:32

like an arab slave trade enslavement trade yeah so

41:37

arabs were actually coming in with islam and enslaving many of the people

41:44

so what we found is that a lot of a lot of countries were actually took on

41:50

took on um islam to actually protect the people because then they're saying these

41:56

people are coming in looking to enslave people they're then saying well we are the same religion as you so therefore

42:03

um you know you can see in our books in what we do in our culture everything so so they've they very much took on this

42:11

um this this whole culture and studying of islam to to also protect the people

42:17

as well but also there were benefits that um you know

42:22

like like i say you know the whole education system that came with islam

42:27

the whole writing you know people very much love the whole idea of writing

42:33

expressing themselves in um you know in in these new languages so

42:38

yeah yeah hope that answers some questions yeah and kind of related to that as well we've got lots of questions for you

42:44

kwame um was there much christianity around

42:50

um no what we're finding especially in these early empires it's really about

42:56

the traditional the traditional religions and then obviously um

43:02

islam came in and then once islam came in like i said even some of the leaders took on islam

43:10

but there was still certain leaders certain student sungai leaders kings who were very much traditionalists

43:18

so what what you what you end up having even like even like modern africa today what you'll

43:25

have is somebody will call themselves um muslim but they'll still be following certain

43:32

traditional beliefs so they're very much mixing them together you see so so but it's it's like um how

43:39

you can can you say it's like uh um i forget i get the word from it but you

43:46

know you will oh you've gone oh hold on oh okay yeah somebody's shooting

43:53

by a mistake i think so you'll have some people who are very staunch

43:58

um muslims will you know take the take the quran to the

44:03

to the extreme and then you'll have other people who are very much traditional

44:09

but they'll still maybe have the quran around the house or they might even go out in in a hijab or whatever even go to

44:16

the mosque but when they go home they're still very much praying to their traditional

44:22

uh using their traditional beliefs if you like yeah interesting

44:28

okay let's move on um we have a question from diana christian she's

44:34

asking when did the sungai empire come to an end ah now that's a that's a very uh

44:42

um a sad um episode that was 1591

44:48

and what happened is over over the latter years of the empire

44:54

um there was a lot lots of infighting different parts of the empire would

45:00

break away because they want autonomy that kind of thing so originally when you had an empire that

45:07

was strong um everybody was together but once people started breaking away

45:12

um the empire weakened and what happened is the the moroccans in the north

45:19

um they got together with the british and um queen

45:24

[Music] the the first elizabeth yamcha elizabeth yeah queen queen elizabeth

45:31

she actually um supplied the moroccan army with guns

45:36

um even cannons and uh and then they were led by a spaniard so it's like a coalition of

45:44

spanish moroccans and english and um they took advantage of the instability

45:52

that was going on in sangha at the time and uh yeah in 1591 the the the leader

45:59

an army into there and they um yeah they they they destroyed the place basically they they had what we what we

46:07

know as um a scotch earth policy and they basically just destroyed everything

46:12

they destroyed everything and in their work i mean they left famine and all kinds of things it was it was it was

46:19

really terrible what they did but yeah yeah okay and a question here from linda

46:26

vowels she's asking when did white people first go to africa did they help or hinder trade

46:34

um [Music] when is it is a bit hard but some of the

46:39

first um europeans into africa were the portuguese

46:46

and again we're talking about maybe the the 14th

46:52

15th centuries that's when they started to you know trickling trickling um

46:59

and in the initial you know initially um you'd obviously because europeans were

47:05

very much certain parts of europe were very much christian christianized and so they they

47:11

wanted to go on what christianizing the um the world if you like you know so they

47:18

very much wanted to go into africa and spread the word of jesus so um so some

47:24

of the earlier people were these um were the early people spreading the

47:30

bible kind of thing but um there were also people who were there as traders

47:36

and in certain empires like the benin empire you actually get um portrayals

47:44

in in some of their artwork you actually get portrayals of the of the um of the portuguese of the

47:51

portuguese who who first arrived there and in fact in some of these african armies you actually get um some um

47:59

mercenaries who join the african armies so you get european mercenaries who

48:04

actually leave their own home and join the african armies so um so there's lots

48:09

of um incidents of that yeah examples of that area

48:15

um interesting question from kim brinkworth she's asking what kind of art did people create in in the empire

48:23

um well like i said if you were if you saw the the uh the salt cellar that i was that i

48:29

was showing that's an example of of elaborate elaborate art but um art in

48:37

many african societies was um more functional than something just to

48:42

have as a as a decoration you know people it was more yeah it was

48:47

more functional and like i said um like with the benin empire we have something called the benin

48:54

bronzes and um they are like uh portrayals of everyday life

49:00

um in the in the kings in the kings um in the king's palace

49:05

so um so these are very much artworks but they're it's like a practical portrayal

49:12

of what's going on so those in um the bending society would be like

49:17

how we'd have photographs on the walls today kind of thing so um yeah so art

49:23

was very much about being practical like again in some of these societies you might have um

49:30

jugs for pouring water but it might be in the shape of a of an animal

49:35

or in the shape of a shell you know so like if we go to the british museum

49:40

there's many examples if you go in the africa section in the british museum there's many examples of these these

49:46

kind of things um shells or there's a very elaborate um model of a

49:52

leopard but it's actually it's actually used for pouring water so

49:57

the water comes from its mouth kind of thing so um yeah art was very much about um

50:04

being practical yeah okay right let's have a look because we've

50:10

still got some time for more questions okay um

50:15

did the empire have slaves let's talk about slaves again yeah um

50:22

when we're yeah because this is this is quite an important point because um when we're talking about um

50:28

enslavement of people in a in an african context usually what we're talking about

50:33

is like prisoners of war that's usually where people came from people who were enslaved and the big

50:39

difference between that and like european or even the arab enslavement

50:44

trade that i was talking about earlier on is that people didn't lose their

50:50

humanity their humanity wasn't um stripped from them and um they were they were even taken in

50:57

as a member of the family the only difference was they could not they could not um

51:03

obviously you couldn't leave because for for whatever reason you had to stay

51:08

with that family but you weren't chained it was like an agreement you agreed okay you captured me in the war so therefore

51:15

i'm going to stay here and usually it would be like you'll stay for a certain amount of time so you know maybe um like

51:23

seven years or something like that there'd be an agreed amount of time and you would stay there but um

51:29

there's even examples of uh people being captured as as

51:34

slaves and even um going up to the ranks and even becoming a leader of the country you know um so

51:42

um if you look at the the story of there's a well-known story of one of the leaders sundiata

51:48

and again he was um taken away used as a as a slave but eventually rose and um

51:56

became the uh the leader of the of his of the empire so yeah um so this

52:02

very much a different thing you know when we talk about enslavement the african context and the

52:09

european context here very very different and also the like i said the arab context as well yeah

52:16

okay um now here's another interesting question actually um from

52:23

um did these empires look after the physically and mentally ill

52:29

that's a good question um i

52:35

i don't have any examples of of that

52:40

looking up looking after them especially i think you know different different um

52:47

different peoples different countries have different beliefs so um some

52:53

some beliefs would see um somebody who's physically um

52:59

deformed as um they'd be cursed you know so some some people's some

53:06

coaches will see that where others they would just see a deformed person but they would very much be

53:13

part of society so um and again even in the sundiata story um

53:20

where one of the one of the kings marries a deformed woman so um

53:27

so yeah it's a lot of the times it's like there's no one set rule for all you

53:32

know we capturing all societies as if they've got one one way of seeing everything you know

53:38

they have different beliefs um different cultures so yeah it's it's a bit of a hard one that but a good question

53:47

now um probably another couple of questions um you talked about the artifacts the

53:52

african artifacts and british library do you think that these

53:58

should be repatriated interesting question well uh i think i think with without

54:05

doubt because it's it's like it's like if if somebody's stolen something from

54:10

you or if you've had something stolen from you and then you find that it's been

54:16

given to somebody else or somebody else has bought it even though a transaction has gone ahead

54:22

it's still yours you know so that's that's where i stand on that

54:28

those artifacts still belong to those countries they are cultural artifacts

54:34

that belong to those countries so therefore um yeah i think very much they should be they should be given back very

54:41

much so yeah i don't there's no two ways about that one yeah yeah i mean i can i can sometimes see the

54:48

argument where the british museum might say well you know we didn't steal this item we got it you know through somebody

54:55

who paid for it but the thing is we know it's been stolen originally you know and

55:01

it's like if the police come to you for something that's stolen you can say well i bought it but it's still stolen and

55:07

you'll still be in trouble so it's it's the same thing really

55:12

okay one final question and this from ann alexander

55:17

she's saying um i guess there must have been empires in other parts of africa besides west africa is this correct and

55:24

where were they i don't know if you can so um and again different empires in different

55:32

in different periods of time and when i'm teaching because we we teach african history and um we teach um

55:40

empires in this in the south south south africa from um great great zimbabwe i

55:46

think we've got a person we had a person here called emerson he was part of one of our classes emerson from

55:53

um zimbabwe south africa so um so there's yeah there's a great empires in

56:00

southern africa with empires in eastern africa um

56:05

again i've talked about west africa west africa has some of the the major empires you know i've talked

56:12

about the benin obviously the three emperors i've just talked about there the knock and okay you know not culture

56:20

um [Music] there's so many so many different empires and when we're looking at

56:25

richness of um culture in africa west africa is

56:30

one of the the richest west africa and then we can't forget about egypt there

56:36

you know at the top the top corner there because sometimes we forget about egypt and we put it in the middle east

56:42

somewhere but it very much is part of africa and we do talk about that very much you know on our courses here but

56:49

all around africa again central africa yes very very much so yeah yeah

56:55

okay well thank you very much for that kwame that was absolutely fascinating and i

57:00

think we got through a hell of a lot there and thanks for answering all of those

57:06

questions um now what i'm going to do is i'm just going to stop recording now

English (auto-generated)

Lecture

Contemporary ceramics

The UK has a well-known and long history in the art of ceramics and the British Ceramics Biennial is a prestigious high-profile festival of contemporary ceramics which takes place in Stoke-on-Trent every two years. Embracing the heritage of the Potteries as the home of British ceramics, it stimulates creativity and innovation across the breadth of its practice and sharpens the city’s creative edge as an international centre for excellence in contemporary ceramics. It is also underpinned by an exciting year-round programme of artist’s commissions, education and community engagement projects, including courses delivered in partnership with the WEA.

Join us on a live tour of this year’s exhibition (11th -17th September) and discover artworks from the UK’s leading ceramicists alongside work by international artists in exhibitions and learn about special events held across the city.

Video transcript

0:00

exhibition award award is a is an exhibition that happens

0:06

every year every every biannual and 10 artists are selected to

0:12

produce work for the show and so i'm going to take you around the award artists first

0:19

and and then there'll be a sort of natural point where we could ask some questions i won't be able to go into

0:26

great deals about all of the works but i hope that it will be enough to sort of pick your

0:31

interest and maybe um maybe you'll want to come and visit or find out more about

0:37

the work and so we're starting off here with stephen dixon's work um

0:45

for the ship of of of dreams and nightmares and it is made out of a

0:51

glazed earthenware which is often called majolic what's called majolica and the idea is that it

0:59

as a material has taken a specific route from iraq

1:04

um through europe and that route is very similar to the roots that contemporary migrants

1:12

travel in order to get to the uk so the piece was made in

1:17

collaboration in some ways with a group of local

1:23

residents who are supported by the muslim jubilee project

1:28

which is a support group for refugees and asylum seekers and they

1:34

selected objects of significance that were either um things that they were

1:41

represented the hopes and the nightmares of this this treacherous journey

1:47

and the the whole uh form as as you step back from it and

1:52

takes on this shape of a contemporary migrant vessel

1:57

as as we see in the middle mediterranean and all the time

2:04

um and so we're moving on to cleo lucy's work

2:09

um so cleo musi is what's quite different about this work is that she hasn't

2:15

specifically made anything in ceramics she's used ceramics

2:21

as as her medium and made these fantastic um

2:28

mosaic figurines and they're all life-size figures there are

2:34

13 of them and um they represent ideas around

2:41

taxonomy race origin leaf and clay and there's a sort of

2:46

really multi-layered approach to ideas about

2:52

um how we our quest for knowledge and um so she delved into folklore and science

2:59

and all sorts of different themes and and you could

3:04

really spend hours work i was just noticing how um there are bits of

3:11

shards that i recognize from cots that i have plates that

3:17

i'd know the mold

3:33

so um as we as we come along here we we're at um the work of allison at

3:40

allison cook and alison cook's work is called bridge under troubled waters and it's about um

3:49

it brings up ideas around climate change and the clay that she's used has been

3:55

dug from the norfolk coast from the from the cliffs and north of the coast and

4:02

and also from deep samples and under the north sea

4:08

and it's it's looking at how dr land used to connect great britain too

4:14

um to europe and and then the sort of changing rising sea levels the changing

4:20

borders and um the way that people have tried for many years to

4:26

for thousands of years to control the sea and um

4:31

so it's it's a work that really sort of looks at architecture of engineering

4:39

archaeology science and and people and

4:45

go around to have a look at some of the samples that she's taken from the core sample

4:52

and there's a photo of the core sample to the left and then

4:57

and then she's made samples of all the different types of clay that

5:04

she's found and fired them so that they all kind of

5:11

respond quite

5:22

distantly okay so so here we have um the work of hernai

5:28

and her night um is um is based in london but she works um

5:34

she's she's from hong kong reggie and she's used um

5:40

she's used bone china to create this piece and bone chinese is sort of what we

5:47

developed in a in an attempt to to emulate the porcelain of china so

5:54

she's used bone china and she's she's added different quantities of red stain

6:01

and um ceramic flux that raises the melting temperature of the plate and so

6:08

you can see from on the top left-hand corner where it's it's just the plain bone china

6:14

and how the the form is actually the map of hong kong how that becomes more and more

6:21

um sort of abstract and melty as as the proportions of material

6:28

are increased and and obviously this is

6:34

sort of it draws on the post-colonial identity of um people

6:41

in hong kong and um as a strong aspect to the work

6:49

you can go close up and have a look at how um how much that clay is literally

6:55

um bubbled and melted in the in the kiln it's quite incredible um the way it's

7:00

become um yeah like a marshmallow or something

7:11

right so um the piece that we're coming on to now is um

7:17

is called the meal and it's by an artist called moena cutter and she works as part of a collective

7:24

it's based in london called into art and she has created uh

7:32

eight portraits of her family members both at here and in ghana

7:37

and uh and then a table setting and fabric so she's designed the fabric as well and

7:44

it really draws on her daily routine of um of

7:50

the going to brixton market and picking up materials and looking at all

7:55

the fabrics and her connection with her home and her family

8:02

which is i think particularly poignant in this time when many people we haven't been able to necessarily all

8:08

sit around the same table

8:19

so the next work that we'll be looking at is by connor colston and it's called

8:25

if we laugh then let us be guilty and it is a really sort of he says that he uses clay

8:31

as his um means of exploring his fears and

8:37

depression and anger and all of his sort of

8:42

everything that's in there comes out into the clay and so he he sort of said well if you laugh about

8:49

it and he and he laughs about himself he's quite satirical and and is happy to

8:55

welcome himself but also makes you know the question is

9:01

you might come across someone who if you laugh then maybe you must you

9:06

should think about people who don't have play to explore all these things and get it all

9:12

out in a kind of have that solitude and solace in the play

9:26

so now we're on to a really different piece which is by helen beard and helen beard

9:34

uses illustration as her tool and the ceramics as her canvas and these

9:39

are both thrown and hand-built pieces and they are intricately

9:47

drawn on and she's created a whole cityscape and this work actually developed and

9:55

evolved and because through lockdown she was doing lots of creative projects with her

10:01

children as many people were and she started doing some stop motion animation

10:06

and so she's actually made a stop-motion animation using these pieces as the

10:13

as the objects that move and or as the characters quickly see

10:19

and it's this sort of changing goes from a really quiet um

10:25

moment um but it goes from a really quiet um

10:31

and and the sort of desolation and there's there's quite a lot of humor in in the way people move around in it

10:39

and how we sort of changed our relationship with space

10:50

um sarah we have had a question about one of the earlier sculptures if it's okay for me to chime in yes absolutely

10:56

someone asked are all of c musty's mosaics made from reclaimed ceramics yes

11:02

that's correct yeah and she often collects them when she comes she's over over the years she's always come to

11:08

stoke and collected them from the dumps because that was more affordable than

11:14

buying them from charity shops well that's such a fun fact

11:19

yeah um so we here at um christy brown's work now christy brown

11:26

um this is quite different for what she's from what she's done recently and

11:31

um it's a work that explores where she sort of started with um

11:37

she initially started making putts and and she also did um life drawing and one

11:44

of her tutors said well why you know why don't you make figures you seem to be you know love the

11:51

figure and so this was many a year ago and she so she started reflecting on these

11:57

the drawings the life joints and then creating the sort of

12:02

tableau um which explores this relationship between

12:08

the 2d and the 3d forms um and they're sort of looking at each other

12:14

and it's almost like that there's a sort of dialogue that's happening between figures and the drawings and

12:21

and i suppose her and her practice and they're made

12:28

they're made out of mainly terracotta clay and then a black um stone way

12:35

and the the sort of color coloring the the sort of shading on the pieces is um

12:42

an oxide and sort of rubbed into the textured surface of the clay

12:51

so now another very very different piece um i think okay

13:01

so we've had a quick question if that's okay well yes what was the name of the hong kong

13:07

ceramicist and the reliable toby club artist

13:14

is the artist from hong kong and connor colston

13:19

is the artist um who does the sort of figurative

13:24

um expressive pieces oh brilliant thank you so much we are in um

13:36

um originally from korea but he's based in wales in cardiff

13:42

and he has um he's really interested in producing

13:47

optical illusions through color and form in clay

13:53

and so he's intricately produced these these pieces what's interesting about them maybe we can have

14:00

a look inside um is the color goes all the way through it's not a painted on decoration it's

14:07

actually intrinsic to the structure of the of the piece um

14:13

and he produced this with a special dye and and then joined the blocks

14:20

together so

14:28

and it's it's not only an exploration of the um to

14:34

the optical illusions but also sort of translating something between 2d

14:39

and 3d um form

14:50

okay so um last of all is there any questions while we move on to the next

14:56

the last award piece um just while there's nothing nothing really interesting to see on the screen

15:03

um yeah we have had a question actually which is what do uh what do you dye the clay with um okay so they use um ceramic stains

15:11

which are are made with oxides and um they have to be able to fire high so

15:17

they're quite often um so like cobalt oxide and and

15:23

to make black they normally combine different oxide different metal oxides

15:29

and as long as the hardest color to get is is reds and pinks because they often burn out at a high

15:36

temperature so they have to um sort of combine them with the part quite things

15:42

that um particles that don't um that have a high but melting temperature so

15:48

that will hold the color um but that's become a lot easier in the last and the technologies developed

15:55

you know greatly over the last 20 years and yeah so um

16:02

we're on to the last award piece and this is thames and vanessa's words and

16:08

she's looking at a residue of tools and she spent a lot of time living in

16:14

india and actually came back to live in the uk

16:19

due to the pandemic and she's made these these tools which

16:24

reference um axes and aerobatic

16:29

healing tools and any sort of the idea about what happens

16:36

when the tool is no longer used for its focus or um

16:42

what does it become and what really amazed me about these pieces

16:49

and you'll see for yourselves is that they don't look like they're made

16:55

out of ceramic at all um i think they look like they they're made of um they're made of wood

17:05

and that the way that she gets this really sort of smooth surface is is a technique called burnishing

17:11

um so when the clay is is is hard and hard sort of hard

17:18

you basically polish it um to get this really shiny surface so it's not actually glazed at all

17:26

and then along with these pieces are also some some drawings which are made with clay

17:36

so are there any questions about the last ten artworks we've very briefly had a

17:42

look at well yeah another one's just come in saying um yes i noticed the cleo must

17:48

sleep speech with the names of some stoke on trent six towns do you know whether these relate to the locations

17:54

where she gathered the ceramic fragments for each piece it's quite possible but i don't know

18:00

i'm not sure exactly i mean each part each tongue was known for producing um

18:06

different as you know different things particularly um so yes i think that will be one if i do

18:13

see her then i'll i'll have to ask her um okay

18:18

so this is a really good sort of meeting point so um

18:24

these pieces so last year this was uh the artist who was who won the award

18:31

is was vicky linda and bill brooks and they work as a collaborative partnership

18:37

um and so this this is the and then they are commissioned to produce a new word for the the next festival

18:43

um but not only have they produced this these four pieces which are all about

18:49

um this cyclical nature particularly of women's bodies and

18:55

and so it's very intricately um decorated and in a technique that's

19:03

called scrippito so there's a layer of slip which is clay with the pigment in

19:10

it once again um and then she scratches through to the surface of the clay underneath which is

19:17

a porcelain porcelain clay and um you can really spend a lot of time with

19:23

these works but um one really good thing to know is if you are in london um and the work that

19:31

she produced and won the award with um last festival

19:37

is has been bought by the bna is and is now in the public

19:42

realm in the in the public collection and along with this piece that she's

19:48

created she's also produced some plates that are

19:54

part of our project which is called stoke makes plates which this leads really nicely on

20:00

and so she's designed two two different plates one about her and her daughter's swimming

20:07

over lockdown and the other about um

20:12

having a head cutting her daughter's hair in the garden and the birds taking

20:18

the hair and taking it off to make their nests and so we commissioned these as part of

20:24

the stock makes page faith project which is a big community making project and every

20:32

year we we have a year-round program which works with the communities and

20:38

stone conference um and so we worked with um over 15

20:45

groups including the north west midlands olgbt group

20:51

um a church um in in henley a local church

20:57

youth groups and the users of our open studio

21:02

who call themselves the clay comrades and everyone produced um

21:08

a plate that reflected their own ideas and thoughts

21:14

or some aspect that we sort of um so these were talking about like my dream hi my dream

21:21

shop front um on the high streets and this was done with a youth group and so the place that

21:28

vicky lindo has has designed will go on that they'll they are for sale they'll

21:34

they'll they will fund um future community work that we do

21:39

um in our year-round project and this this is a

21:45

um a plague by uh someone called claire heath and she's one of the members of the studio and she has taught some of

21:52

the the big um she's she's 83 and she's taught some of

21:58

the big um names in ceramics like duncan houston and

22:04

kevin millward um who have gone on to teach more people so i always think that

22:10

we're really lucky to have her around all of her experience um in in the studio with us

22:17

um okay so this is the point where you might lose us for a minute um just to go downstairs but yes if there are any

22:24

questions there is another question which was them have the plates had slip on them

22:30

um some of them have had slip on them so uh the the yellow plates once the yellow

22:35

houses had slip and then they've also had an additional firing with um a decal

22:42

a ceramic transfer and these plates were made in a raku

22:47

firearm so they went into the gas film and then came out um red hot and we put them in a

22:56

bucket of um sawdust and so that's what sort of transformed the clay from um

23:03

white or buff to black them so they're all made in different

23:09

ways um oh fantastic um actually i've just been i've just been corrected on that

23:15

question and they were asking if the graffito pieces had had slip on them yes yes i think it's very it's very

23:22

smooth slip um yes but yes and then sorry some people have asked

23:27

for a little bit of clarity about what slip is okay so slip is basically clay in a

23:33

liquid state and if you're using it for decorating so you use it for joining two pieces of clay together like blue um but

23:41

it's also used to cast um ceramics so in a mould

23:47

but the decorating slip is literally almost like a paint but it's clay

23:54

with once again the ceramic pigments mixed into it um and you put it on normally

24:01

before the clay has been fired because it fires into the body of the

24:07

clay but it's a it's it's a really good material because normally it's what you

24:14

see is what you get when you're working with it um which with glazes is not necessarily the case

24:22

it could go on looking pink and come on um yeah okay so we'll we'll lose you for a

24:30

minute or less as we go down the stairs and stay stay tuned

24:44

yeah so while we wait for sarah to come back um yeah just a reminder to keep those questions coming in because it's

24:49

really it's really great seeing them pop up um and i think people have had um

24:56

their problems sorted but if you are having any sound or image issues just remember that um it is

25:01

being recorded so you will be able to catch up so don't worry about missing anything because we are recording it all

25:07

um and yeah sarah is out the other end now so she can pick up her again um sarah sorry

25:12

before you start up again just one more question and what was the name of the 83 year old um

25:18

ceramicist who did the plate uh clear heat clear heat thank you very much

25:26

yeah sorry it's my accent um so here we are in fresh so fresh is an

25:33

exhibition of 25 artists and emerging artists and we've constantly

25:40

um sort of evolving the fresh criteria and and exhibition

25:46

so initially it was for graduates from universities and then it was extended out to colleges

25:54

and other other hnd diploma courses and now it is open to anyone who has

26:01

studied or in any way so we have people who

26:07

like for example this piece that you're looking at now and

26:12

this one here by nicole who are have come out of m.a programs at

26:18

staffordshire university here or the royal college of art

26:24

and to people who are self-taught like um are real zineberg don't worry too much

26:31

about the names if you want to look up any information about the names of artists and they're all on our website

26:38

so um but but to see the work alongside them you wouldn't know necessarily that um

26:45

it just shows that there are many ways to learn and i think that's something the lifelong learning um

26:51

that is part of the wa ethos sort of really is is similar to what we kind of looking

26:58

at here this person is also self-taught and

27:05

they i think it's a it's a collaboration um popplini and giozando and um they are actually

27:12

mainly learned on youtube um which i find completely amazing

27:18

um and there's a real real great diversity of um of work on show here

27:25

it's very exciting um going from these functional pieces um to very experimental pieces where

27:33

you've got materials melting and gluing stuff together and collapsing

27:39

and we've also got 3d i'll take you over to them shortly but

27:46

um um so

27:52

like for example this artist actually ended up she studied illustration and printmaking but she she

27:59

has the stream of making large-scale sculptures and i think you can you can see the really fine

28:05

detailed modelling um that you may you may end up do you know definitely living that dream

28:13

um so i think we'll go over to we can sort of look at the work as we go along but

28:19

we'll go over to the 3d printed working

28:38

so each of these um the fresh artists will there's an award for a for

28:44

residency and one with the bcb one with staffordshire university one

28:50

with wedgewood and um you can yeah

28:56

just to show how very different the making process is and the real

29:02

experimentation and um diversity of ceramic practice and if you

29:08

think these are the emerging artists it's really exciting to see what's going

29:13

to be happening in the next two five ten years in ceramics

29:20

because there's just so much so much innovation

29:29

i think we're doing quite a long time so we'll maybe head down to um i'll show you the the four artists who

29:37

were selected who who have done residencies over the past year and the work that they've produced

29:44

and then we'll go on to look at the partnership exhibitions

29:50

so so by the way we normally are in the

29:56

china halls in um at the spurred work site um and at the very last minute in fact

30:03

we only had three weeks to install this exhibition and we we

30:08

we kind of had to transform what was a derelict building into an exhibition space so but it is a it's an interesting

30:15

space and a warren of rooms and places to to see things

30:21

um this is work by um alison ellis walton and she did her residency with um

30:29

with wedgwood and once again you're seeing that um pigmented clay so like

30:34

the jasper way um that that was so innovative um

30:40

in in wedgwood's work josiah regiment's work and you can see this different colors that she's used

30:47

and then we've got um laura plant and laura plant is

30:54

someone who studied at staffordshire university so local she lives locally she's got a very

31:00

precise way of working and it's worked on real

31:06

experiments she does mainly throwing but she also uses mold making

31:11

um but if you have a look closely at some of these pieces and they're extremely fine finish on

31:19

them i think particularly on this blue one um

31:24

this is really an an incredible and an incredible finish

31:36

and then interesting you can see how she's exploring similar forms in different

31:42

sort of iterations okay then very very different

31:48

and business work by pam the real splash of color

31:54

um also once again like really kind of experimental in terms of materials

32:01

um and and also the technical and i'm not sure what the teddy bear is about

32:07

it's about hope and disillusionment

32:17

and um and then we have tony de jesus and tony um

32:22

has basically he his works have become the works that he submitted and one

32:28

award with um fresh with last um festival were

32:33

much more closely functional in in if you can have a look have a look at

32:39

this one you can see how it's almost shifting it and really exploring the materials and

32:45

it's becoming more sculptural um

32:50

so we won't go in there but sort of behind this work is a room where we've

32:56

got a handling space where people can come and touch uh samples of of the work um that the

33:04

artists have have given for this sort of sampling um

33:10

yeah life touching feeling um so it worked quite um and there's

33:17

something that i didn't say about um fresh which i think is really important is

33:22

not only did we open up the panel and the criteria the panel actually included

33:29

year nine students from a local school called the hayward academy and they were in actually

33:36

there were a few artists that may not have gone into this election had it not been they were sort of championed by the

33:43

young people um and they will also have a voice on the selection panel for um for the

33:50

residency which is really exciting so you can imagine so apparently they

33:56

came in yesterday and they were sort of they had they had it down to about seven

34:03

and then they they had to get it down they eventually got it down to two and they were all

34:08

putting forward the case for the different works that they thought should be selected

34:14

um are they are there any questions at this point i have yeah i've had a question

34:19

about um just the exhibition as a as a whole how do you ensure the safety

34:24

of all these objects of that they're wonderfully displayed without cabinets um yes how do you make sure they're not

34:30

knocked over by you know clumsy people with cameras or small children yeah well basically we just have we say

34:38

no touching we've got quite a few um wonderful festival assistants like james who's holding the camera for me today to

34:45

sort of keep an eye and remind people about not touching um but i think what's

34:50

it is really lovely to be so be able to come up so close to the work

34:56

um because quite often with ceramics you just don't have that that option um

35:03

yeah um we do have some quite a lot of hands-on

35:08

activity in in the space um and so i think that helps to sort of

35:14

separate out what you know what's for touching and what's and what we're looking at and

35:21

so i think it's there's too much here for me to really go into this

35:27

whole space when you can see that it's a long table full of work is um an exchange space and it's the

35:36

customer potters um from japan it's about 60 kilometers north of tokyo

35:43

clay college which is um the the world it's based on middle class at

35:50

middlebury pottery and it's a specifically um a throwing focused course um for potters over two

35:59

years and they've had two rounds of students um in and um it's really intensive and they um

36:07

so it so it's their work and then also staffordshire university so it's a

36:12

an exchange between stoke on trent and another city of great um ceramic

36:19

significance um so we're gonna go sort of we can't we won't have time to

36:25

look at the road but we're going through to the partnership area

36:31

um and i'm going to talk about two main projects so um so this is and

36:39

is the is the fern brick wall um and it's part of the portland inn

36:44

project um which is um the artist anna francis who works with airspace gallery in in hanley and

36:52

stoke um and it's a collaboration actually between her

36:57

myself and joe mills and we worked with the community

37:03

to produce these phone bricks so the fern bricks were

37:09

originally designed by a doctor and dr

37:15

watts watson and they were called the watsonian phone books he was a medical doctor but he was

37:21

also a fern enthusiast and he designed fern bricks and they

37:27

were produced in berlin in stockholm trent and and the area um where this

37:33

community project the portland inn projects takes place has only got very small yards

37:40

and and they recently lost a lot of green space in the area so

37:45

this came out as an immediate response of how they could um

37:51

encourage green green or you know nurture green greenness um within the small yard spaces in in

37:59

the location so um we went on this challenging journey of creating bricks

38:05

which we hadn't really done before making pockets um within the community so outside people were slapping

38:12

clay and some wooden molds and then we were applying them and um and then yeah building the wall

38:20

and so this is um yeah so really exciting uh project

38:26

and when the exhibition is over and the bricks will be taken out and will go to

38:33

the residents of of that area um now this piece is

38:38

by tanner west and it is a view from a distance the china

38:44

country panorama and it is referencing um

38:50

a big panoramic wallpaper um of the bay of naples but this is

55:36

you

English (auto-generated)

Lecture

A Light Hearted Look at Victorian Life

Advice manuals such as ‘Enquire Within About Everything’ and ‘The Household Oracle’ were very popular among the Victorian middle classes, while others like ‘The Railway Traveller’s Handy Book of Hints, Suggestions and Advice’ and ‘The Complete Indian Housekeeper and Cook’ catered for more specific audiences.

In this lecture, we will explore why the audience for these guidebooks was so large, taking in some examples of the advice ranging from the rules of courtship and acceptable behaviour during its ‘temporary lunacy’ to ‘speaking properly’, how to make half-worn carpets last longer, restore hair when ‘removed by age’ and deal with poisoning and snake bites! Often amusing and occasionally alarming, we will gain many insights into Victorian middle class life, its social and financial insecurities and the genuine need for sound, practical guidance in negotiating its challenges.

Video transcript

0:00

just to give you an idea first of all what i'm going to cover in the lecture

0:06

i'm going to give you a few examples of um advice manuals quite a lot of them um

0:12

in various forms are available on the internet so um if you are taken with the subject you

0:17

might like to search for some of them um there's one example castle's household guide and i'll

0:24

let you have some more very quickly um i'm going to say very briefly why these animals were

0:31

so popular with the victorian middle classes most of the lecture will be devoted to

0:37

some examples of their advice

0:42

so here are a few other examples of um the uh advice manuals

0:47

um enquire within upon everything first published in 1856 and very very popular

0:53

revised every year or so and over a million copies sold by 1888

1:00

probably the best known one this is beaten with book of household management first published in 1861

1:07

and the household oracle 1897 of which i've never heard with a friend of mine found it on one of her

1:14

shelves she's got all sorts of things on her shelves so that was very useful and the one you

1:20

can see illustrated there the railway traveler's handy book um hints suggestions and advice for the anxious

1:27

victorian traveler and i will come back to that later on

1:32

and uh the complete indian housekeeper and cook first published in 1888 and specifically

1:40

for british women who were going to india to accompany their husbands

1:47

possibly in the military or in the indian civil service so they're just a few examples

1:57

why were they um they were so attractive to the middle um classes um they were

2:02

clearly the target audience um not just because of the um price roundabout children's excellence

2:09

to five shillings um but because they were an emerging uh ruling class um they needed practical

2:17

advice in a world of new opportunities this is a time of enormous change

2:22

in terms of the economy and society but

2:28

a lot of them have limited incomes and they need to know how to make the most of what

2:34

they have the the definition of middle class in the 19th century is said to be

2:39

um 100 an income of 150 pounds a year and at least one servant

2:45

but um we'll see some examples of advice about uh making do and getting your

2:50

money to go as far as it can they are also this this is really important i think um they're searching

2:58

standards as the new ruling class um new norms of behavior to distinguish

3:03

them from the aristocracy and the gentry who are still massively powerful they

3:09

may be small in number but they're very powerful and these norms that's defined by

3:16

the general term polite society out of behaving polite society

3:21

and um the middle classes also see themselves as exemplars of victorian

3:26

family life as a stabilizing influence in a a rapidly changing world as i said

3:34

and there are lots of examples of this the

3:40

this is just one painting many happy returns of the day by william powell frisk perhaps better

3:47

known for the railway station um but um you can see here the uh the

3:53

typical victorian megatrust family with the um the children sitting around the

3:59

table the servants etc and there are lots of examples of that

4:06

so i am going to start with courtship and um the temporary insanity that it

4:12

was often said to um induce and this is an extract for from mrs

4:18

humphrey in 1897 manners for men she also wrote a publication called manners for

4:25

ladies and um she says forgive me um and i know some

4:31

people watch on their phone and um the quotes might not be all that clear so i am going to read it out

4:37

um sometimes a girl falls so wildly in love with the man that she creates a kind of corresponding though passing

4:45

further in him and while it lasts he believes himself in love and should marriage follow upon such

4:52

courtships as these where the girl takes over the initiative the union is very seldom a happy one

5:00

women shouldn't take the initiative in the um victorian mindset but

5:06

there's another kind of temporary insanity i think that could arise from misreading very complex signs

5:14

so the rules of courtship were very very complicated and there was an enormous

5:20

potential for understanding the messages that people were sending

5:26

here's the um innocuous looking fan but here's the code of fan flirtation

5:32

this is not a new victorian invention it goes back to an earlier period but it's still very um

5:40

very popular and very much relevant to the victorian period so i'm not going to

5:45

go through them all um but um the um you know the

5:51

the potential for um uh sending a um

5:57

a misleading message is um is quite um considerable

6:03

so drawing the fun across the cheek means i love you and drawing it across the eye which is

6:09

very close to the cheek means i'm sorry and uh all the rest of it if it's shut

6:15

they're sending the message well you've changed and um so that's the fan

6:21

but also the language of flowers chlorography as it was sometimes known

6:29

um so um every flower had a meeting a meaning oh

6:34

sorry and um this book floral poetry in the language of flowers is just one of

6:39

many manuals that people could consult on this matter so um some examples pianists

6:47

meant bashfulness so they're presented quite tentatively yellow roses um it's friendship that

6:57

is being offered a purple violence on the other hand my thoughts are occupied with love for you

7:05

now if the lady what accepts the sentiment of the flowers then she will

7:10

take the flowers with the left hand and if she was rejecting it she would

7:15

take them by the right hand so there's um there's plenty of scope there for um forgetting and sending the

7:22

wrong message now assuming um the uh

7:30

couple gets um to this stage of being allowed to meet on their own because there are lots of stages there mostly

7:36

they um should be chaperoned the woman should be chaperoned there are lots of punch cartoons showing um chaperones

7:44

in some cases fortunately falling asleep in the railway carriage and this kind of thing but um if they do

7:51

get to this stage and the father in particular approves then

7:57

they're they're okay to meet um without the chaperone

8:02

and um at that point um punch says the conversation um can be very fond and

8:09

foolish i don't know how well you can see that but um edwin decides to speak after a long pause and

8:16

says darling angelina says yes darling

8:21

edwin says nothing darling only darling darling and uh there we have the the uh bilious

8:28

elderly man um who's unfortunately from his point of view sitting on the

8:34

same seat and having to listen to this rather non-conversation

8:41

if things go well and result in marriage then

8:47

these millennials do give a lot of advice about the legalities and this is very important

8:53

because um it's um it's quite complex in some ways these are the sort of things

8:58

that people might need to check out um breach of promise

9:04

this is not perhaps as common as victorian literature might have us believe but um and it's if if it does

9:12

occur it's usually a breach of the promise from the man to the woman but not always there are cases of

9:20

women being sued for breach of promise and that was what would happen it's a civil defense

9:26

um but much more importantly i think the prohibited degrees of um consanguinity

9:33

how closely are people related or other legal barriers including

9:39

insanity or medical conditions that make it

9:44

impossible for the the marriage to proceed as expected

9:51

if they're going to marry outside the pale of the established church that's uh i'm quoting from enquire within

9:58

um if they're non-conformist roman catholics or jews then

10:04

the um the requirements um differ and uh matters of um licensing rather than bans

10:11

come into the picture so these are the things that people definitely need to know

10:16

and there are significant legal differences outside england and wales particularly in scotland uh um they're

10:24

um there's quite a complicated list of um what is legal in scotland that's

10:30

not legal in england and wales but it might also apply for example to the channel islands the isle of man or to

10:39

the british colonies in which people might be marrying

10:45

advice on married women's property rights from really from the 1870s because they have very few property

10:52

rights until then and it's really in 1882 that um the

10:58

issues about married women having an entitlement to retain their own property after marriages begins to be

11:05

settled properly and if it all goes wrong then

11:11

the legal issues around separation or divorce

11:16

and there's advice on them as well

11:22

now if the marriage is um going ahead then we get our advice about um

11:28

dress and the reception and all the rest of it brides came in all shapes and sizes one

11:36

manual said they might be stout thin tall and short so they should rely on the dressmaker

11:43

for advice about what sort of dress to wear so you don't go to the dressmaker and

11:48

say i i want this um and the dressmaker is not put in the position of saying no i don't think so

11:56

so um there's uh there's an example of somebody who's very same has a very small waist but

12:02

there we are um the advice to bridegrooms is not to wear anything eccentric

12:09

not specified but it would be quite well understood i think at the time

12:14

and anyone marrying should prepare to be judged because there will be people

12:20

um giving a close scrutiny to all aspects of the wedding

12:25

including um the um the

12:31

sorry i'm the the text is coming up and covering up nothing outside right now um you'll be

12:38

able to read it um this one is uh this con would say passerby to the crossing sweeper who's

12:44

supposed to bring good luck to the couple um what's all this about

12:50

well i believe it's a kind of wedding but it ain't likely to be an upper union only two rooms and a half hour

12:57

so um people are judged by um the transport for the wedding the quality of

13:02

the reception and all the rest of it

13:08

once they're married um they are on the hopefully on the honeymoon or the wedding tour as it was often called

13:15

and those with restricted time were recommended to sejuan at tombridge wells

13:22

a base for delightful excursions sketching botanising and collecting

13:27

seaweeds so this gives you an interesting glimpse into what victorian people did on their

13:34

honeymoons this is 1856 um enquire within if they have the time and

13:42

um the money then various continental venues are recommended

13:48

um because it's entirely possible by 1856 to travel to the continent to go by rail to

13:56

a port in britain to um get on a train once you got to um the continent and go

14:03

maybe to rome or venice or wherever it's it's quite possible but it does take

14:08

time and it does require money

14:13

so um various hints to husbands and wives literally when the honeymoon is over and they're living with each other

14:21

and um there is the possibility of friction so wives are advised never to complain

14:28

that your husband caused too much out of the newspaper for the exclusion of the pleasing

14:33

converse which you've formally enjoyed what to do the manual says is get hold

14:39

of the newspaper when it's delivered have a quick look through it and then engage him in conversation

14:45

about something of interest on the paper itself so um

14:51

you um you say oh by the way have you seen whatever it is and hopefully a conversation will ensue

14:59

uh practical advice i don't let him ever find a short a shirt button sorry

15:04

there's a typo there a shirt button missing this is frequently produced the first

15:10

impatient word in married life and the husband is advised to

15:15

be conscious of everything that the wife has given up in marrying him

15:22

her claim to your unremitting regard is exalted to a much higher degree because

15:28

she's left the world for you the home of her childhood the fireside of her parents

15:35

and there's a great deal more of that and other advice to

15:40

avoid misunderstandings under manufactured troubles

15:46

which might arise from not actually communicating with each other

15:52

so we have this uh very long imaginary conversation well not actually a conversation they have a grumbling um

15:59

from the husband and then one from the wife it's much much longer than this but here's a sample

16:05

um the husband says if i had been a guest martha would have been up and dressed she would have sat at the table

16:12

and seen that my coffee was good and my eggs hot and my toast browned

16:18

meanwhile martha who is uh upstairs still um here's him going off to work

16:24

and says to herself i wonder if you really cares anything for me anymore when we were first

16:30

married he never would have gone off in this way with a careless goodbye tossed upstairs

16:36

as he might toss a well-cleaned bone to a hungry dog so um i say there's a great deal of um

16:44

advice so there is a realistic um approach to um marriage in this kind of advice because

16:51

um everybody um there's an ideal as an ideal which is uh very rarely um reached

16:59

and um the advice is to not expect perfection but learn how to get on with each other

17:09

the castle's household guide um gives you an idea of what's expected of the

17:15

middle class housewife and says it's a great deal to expect as

17:21

indeed it is that the home keeper must be an artist in dress a chemist of the kitchen a sanitary

17:28

engineer a domestic doctor a lady of literary culture an executive executive

17:34

officer skillful to compensate for the defects of poor service uh that's a reference to managing the

17:41

servant um and an ornament under light in society

17:46

and various manuals um are aiming to help her achieve all these

17:52

expectations so managing the servants uh or the

17:57

servant there may only be one um the mrs beaton i suppose is um the um

18:05

the advice um par excellence on this matter and um

18:12

she goes into enormous detail about what the duties of the servants of different grades should be um how much they uh

18:20

should be paid and all the rest of it but there's a couple of things from enquire within

18:25

in 1856 and such an example to them is the message of the first let them

18:32

observe in your conduct to others just the qualities and virtues that you would desire they should possess and practice

18:40

and in a practical aspect never allow them to put white knives on your table for generally speaking they will have

18:46

wiped them with a dirty cloth

18:52

taking a house um there's a lot of advice on this because this is a very large investment

18:58

most people rented a house rather than bought it um in the mid

19:04

19th century there's more owner occupation as the century foresees but these are the sorts of um houses here

19:12

that middle class people might rent and uh these are the sort of questions

19:19

that the manuals say they should take into account before they make decisions can

19:26

they afford it can they afford the rent because um this is one of the largest outlays that

19:32

they will make on a weekly or whatever basis and um if you can't pay the landlord

19:39

then you're likely to lose your home so it's a very important consideration

19:45

but what's the character of the locality like um you're advised to go and have a look at various times of the day

19:52

which is quite good advice at any time i think um go and see what the area is

19:58

actually like is it easy to access by road or

20:04

is it fairly near to a railway station is it near to local supplies of food and

20:09

coal etc because if it's not all this will add to the the cost and

20:14

the time that it takes to get around it shouldn't be too far from the husband's place of work he's part of the

20:21

advice because um he's going to be fatigued from his day's work

20:26

and his journey and we don't want him coming home exhausted because he's had a very long

20:33

journey from work and it should be in as airy and healthier situation as it can be

20:41

so these are some of the things that people are advised to avoid

20:46

areas close to standing water graveyards factories or occupations emitting noxious gases and bad smells

20:54

this is not just because um it's quite unpleasant to live there but because the

20:59

victorians are totally convinced that these things are

21:04

hazardous to health as well and a lot of that is based on edwin chadwick's um

21:10

report in 1842 on the environmental pollution and the risk

21:16

of diseases particularly from um measures gases from

21:23

rotting matter and all the rest of it similarly low-lying areas or swampy and

21:28

ill-drained soil not healthy and houses with an entrance to the basement under the ground floor

21:36

um it says the doors left open one manual says there will be a positive hurricane blowing through the house but

21:42

more importantly um these are our temptation to dishonest persons and to idle gossip between servants and

21:49

tradesmen or other servants as you can see in this particular image here

21:55

there's a bit of gossiping going on there

22:00

and that's an image of the it's the old kent road so it's not actually a middle class area but that just to give excuse

22:06

me give you an idea of the size of guessworks and how they loom over everything it's uh good advice to avoid

22:13

them and above all um find somewhere to live away from the

22:20

rival mothers who will otherwise be running in and out and continually making suggestions

22:26

all those who cannot help feeling that he or she the child could have done much better in their choice of arthur

22:34

and there's an artistic rendition of the um either the mother or the mother

22:40

in well she's she's the mother to one and the mother-in-law to the other but there we go

22:48

furnishing the house um the advice has um not to

22:53

buy a lot of furniture to begin with because you might decide you don't actually like it or you don't

22:59

actually need it so just get enough to get by and

23:04

add things as you go along and in buying carpets um those are the

23:10

best quality or cheapest in the end and don't buy anything with any coffee with white in it

23:16

um good advice to anybody i think the thing that entertains me about this

23:22

advertisement is this phrase here all goods delivered free in plain ones

23:28

so um if you shop with the empire furnishing company presumably that was

23:33

a bit cheaper than well-known household names and um they're delivered in free and plain buns

23:40

so that nobody actually knows where you bought your furniture and can comment on

23:46

going for a cheap option as i said earlier there's a lot of

23:53

advice on saving money making do and mending this is um what you do with a half worn

23:59

carpet uh you rip it apart at some point and transpose the breath

24:04

now that's um it's quite hard to um conceal the join when you do that but um

24:11

that's the advice and if you're making a new article um maybe of clothing or um household

24:18

women save the pieces until mending day um and even by a little quantity extra for

24:26

repairs and um don't mend wolf stockings with it

24:31

or lungs wool because um this new wall is very quite delicate and it shrinks

24:36

more than the stockings when you um wash them so um i don't know how that advice how

24:42

useful that advice is to anybody just now but um it was clearly um

24:49

a problem at that time there were manuals devoted to

24:57

women as flower gardeners in particular this one from louisa johnson in 1842

25:04

and um there's a garden is more than somewhere where you grow flowers or

25:10

trees or even vegetables it had in the victorian view of an almost spiritual

25:16

dimension so um ladies gardening with flowers

25:22

nothing humanizes and adorns the female mind more surely than the chaser ornamental gardening

25:28

it compels the reason to act and the judgment to observe and if you

25:34

write a lot of females unequal to the fatigue of bending down to the flowers then this is part of the solution this

25:42

ornamental urn which means you you only have to bend a little way rather than down right down

25:48

to the ground it's uh it's very much too

25:53

related to the idea of women as being physically quite weak and

25:59

needing to be mindful of this

26:06

bringing up children there were many many hazards to health

26:11

during the 19th century um particularly in terms of infant

26:16

mortality and it tended to be higher among the working

26:22

classes but the middle classes were certainly far from immune from these kinds of

26:28

diseases and diphtheria scarlet fever measles cholera which came in epidemic

26:35

waves infant diarrhea which was actually often

26:41

caused by feeding bottles with long tubes which were actually impossible to clean

26:47

properly and so breastfeeding was very much recommended to avoid this

26:54

tuberculosis which was endemic among the working classes and

27:00

really quite widespread among the middle classes and burns and scolds

27:05

children especially small children toddlers were very prone to

27:11

pouring onto fires to scolding themselves with kettles and this kind of thing there are

27:17

some really awful stories um about this in newspapers

27:22

where um there are reports of inquests and you just get a very strong sense of

27:29

how vulnerable they were in these respects and also to an overdose of opiates or

27:35

alcohol now the working classes were often said to dose their children their babies in

27:41

particular on things like godfrey's cordial or um alcohol so that they would

27:47

fall asleep and they could go to work because they needed the income it's uh this is a different kind of

27:54

overdose that's possible these medicines like this atkinson and barclays influence preservatives

28:02

used by her majesty her household

28:07

but this contained opium and it was fairly easy to overdose on that

28:14

opium was perfectly legal at this time

28:19

and also this this is the soothing syrup mrs winslow's soothing syrup first stolen sold in the united states and

28:27

imported to britain later um that contained morphine

28:33

and um i like this advert it says the mother's trend for children teething and

28:39

the mother's friend is the soothing syrup rather than the nursemaid

28:46

and how do you deal with a crying baby

28:52

don't be fooled by this angelic looking child in the basket

28:57

because the impression you get from victorian advice manuals is that

29:02

they're [Music] they're actually little devils in waiting so um and you shouldn't

29:08

encourage this by any means at all so how do you deal with crying in most

29:14

instances one manual says these perspirating sounds it's a nice

29:21

phrase and it might come in handy sometimes i'm not crying i'm making reciprocating sounds but vociferaging

29:28

sounds imply the effort which children necessarily make to display the strength of their lungs

29:34

so the phrase they're only exercising their lungs um is very much in tune with this

29:42

and overzealous or over-anxious attention to crying would encourage the injurious habit of demanding things or

29:49

nutrients at improper times so um the um the idea is that um the

29:56

babies are quickly introduced to a routine of um

30:01

being fed and sleeping and all the rest of it they're not fed on demand

30:07

and children who have been the least indulged we're told on part of their faculties quicker and acquire more

30:13

muscular strength and bigger of mind let's hope they um their muscular

30:19

strength and vigor of mind doesn't applied in this sort of way

30:25

in a punch cartoon um a discreet friend having presented muster tom with a toolbox as a new

30:31

year's gift the furniture is put into thorough repair uh it's a lovely cartoon

30:37

but it's interesting that the um the girls in the family um are similarly involved in sawing up the furniture and

30:45

hammering in that kind of thing and dealing with pests of a different

30:52

kind household pets um exterminating rats um most obnoxious and destructive vermin

30:59

it's a good description but there are also carriers of um disease and that was

31:05

quite well known um by the middle of the 19th century at least so um mix hogs large phosphorus and

31:13

whiskey together leave it where the rats are and

31:18

that will kill them and killing cockroaches well bruised cluster of paris mixed with oatmeal

31:25

strewn in the chinks where they frequent i must admit to having a sort of um

31:31

momentary feeling of being sorry for the cockroaches because that's not a very pleasant way to go with it but

31:38

they are pressed after all and accidental poisoning which was very

31:44

very common and there's a lot of advice about how to avoid it

31:50

and how to deal with it if it actually occurs and um sound immediately for a medical

31:57

man that's the uh advice usually given right at the beginning of these sections

32:04

um know the difference between those poisons requiring a pneumatic and those

32:09

where this would increase the damage so if somebody swallowed something that is burning the esophagus on the way down

32:15

you certainly don't want to give them something that will make them sick and cause her the damage

32:21

when it's on the way up again and enquire within is very emphatic but

32:27

regularly read the relevant sections of the manuals because this is not the time to be searching through the index

32:34

for the antidote to whatever it might be

32:41

um snake bites um mostly um this advice is designed for

32:46

people um in the colonies or other parts of the world like the united states but it was not unknown for people to have um

32:54

other viper bites in britain these are some of the varieties and this

32:59

is the recommended way of dealing with it to tie a tourniquet between the wound

33:04

and the heart and cook the wound to remove the venom or suck it out and that

33:10

might sound fairly um familiar to many of you um i don't know about the rest of it

33:15

heat or poker and burn the wound well or cauterize it freely with caustic

33:22

and advice from um sir francis golfer advice for travellers admittedly in um parts of

33:28

the world where you wouldn't be able to get medical attention but explode gunpowder in the wind if there's no

33:35

caustic available and let's hope not many people have to do that

33:44

serious purposes behind some of the advice the importance of speaking properly

33:51

which could affect your job chances um your standing in society if you were

33:58

seen as as not having uh proper speech so avoiding provincialism

34:05

um and um persons bred in these localities

34:10

and in ireland and scotland the localities being the provinces um

34:15

and in ireland and scotland when they move into other districts they become conspicuous about peculiarities of

34:22

speech often appear vulgar and uneducated and that may be not the case at all but

34:28

that's how they may appear and they say that might have serious um social drawbacks

34:36

and so it is desirable for all persons to approach the recognized standard of correctness as nearly as possible

34:44

and here's the stereotypical irish person saying the top of the morning to you which is

34:50

exactly what um they're recommending people don't do there's some really interesting um

34:57

exercises about grammar as well or um analysis of what's wrong with particular

35:03

phrases so one that sticks in mind is that um colonel somebody uh whatever was

35:09

um killed with a bullet and it should be colonel whatever was killed by a bullet

35:15

and that may seem sort of a small thing but that would be a great giveaway in polite society

35:22

so to help you speak properly um we have manuals like this bell's

35:28

standard elocutionist which is actually um full it's as it says here a copious

35:34

selection of extracts in prose and poetry so it's a wonderful source of uh

35:39

victorian uh early edwardian poetry this is dates from 1902 this edition but um

35:45

it's actually um a new edition so it's fundamentally a victorian manual

35:52

and so it has advice on the position of the hands and the arms

35:58

um it has advice on expressing emotions through the hands

36:04

on what to drink to lubricate your throat or what to chew so that

36:10

your voice is going to be um you know as good as it possibly can be

36:15

so um manuals of elocution are also quite popular um people could

36:23

obviously go and have their occlusion lessons that if you invested in one of these then

36:29

you could do these things in your own time and i say it's a wonderful source of poetry as well

36:37

advice on travel there's um quite a lot of that um in the

36:43

general sort of manual some of them at least but um and there are specific ones

36:48

which i'll come to but um punch has a wonderful way of capturing some of the hazards of travel

36:55

some of the difficulties this is 1872 and the middle classes are going abroad

37:01

as well as to resorts in britain and they may be going on tours with thomas cook who's

37:08

escorted tours which takes a lot of the stress out of traveling um or if they're

37:13

going um under their own steam so to speak then um pontius saying

37:19

perhaps you should spend for luggage insurance because

37:25

um it's rather troublesome we're told when you have to take all your belongings with you but it's better than

37:31

losing your luggage and losing luggage was sadly very common even in the um british

37:37

railway system which um why the um there were different companies running different parts of it

37:43

and the great western railway running on a different gauge to everybody else and uh

37:50

when people were having their luggage moved from um one to the great western then um it uh very

37:56

often went um astray so um what you can see here is

38:02

the um sorry about that coming down there um the man wearing several hats as

38:08

is the child um the woman wearing several um skirts

38:13

um also several hats so um you put on everything you possibly can

38:18

and that's your one of your insurances if you do lose your luggage

38:25

back to the railway travelers handy book 1862 lots of advice about

38:31

purchasing tickets making connections um how your luggage can be handled

38:39

safely on the train and the station which is very similar in many respects to the

38:45

sort of advice you would get now excuse me specifically don't put your head out of

38:51

the window and don't cross the rails because you can't be sure there's a lot of train

38:57

coming and uh paul i found quite entertaining in some ways um but quite illuminating

39:04

in others um how to treat unpleasant travelling companions

39:09

including the insulting and the offensive those especially fond of molesting females and this was said to

39:17

occur most often when you went through a tunnel and it was dark and the fidgety the inquisitive those

39:24

who talk too much and those who stare in the rudest manner possible so there's lots of advice about how to

39:30

do with them um those who stare and think you you stare at them quite rudely and then you

39:36

ignore them that seems to be their advice and there's quite a lot of advice about

39:41

european railways i would say even in 1862 um

39:47

german railways were the most efficient um said the dutch railways were

39:54

not too bad but you did have to clumber over people to change seats and this

39:59

these things are very useful for people who um haven't been abroad before and

40:04

need some guidance so um the complete indian housekeeper and cook

40:12

um this is uh a world classic been pre um reprinted by

40:17

the oxford um university press and it's very very interesting it gives you some real

40:23

insights into the lives and what's expected of women in

40:29

india in particular they are expected to provide a home from home but they're often in very remote

40:36

locations they must supervise the servants and they tend to have more servants than them back in

40:44

britain because the the argument is um you need maybe three or four indian servants to

40:51

do what one british certainly will do whether that's true or not um that's the sort of advice um bringing

40:58

up children in these locations dealing with illness when you you may be a very long way

41:04

from a doctor and fulfilling the social roles like uh

41:10

in britain visiting entertaining and um there's a glossary of youthful hindi

41:15

words spelt phonetically or british memphis one example you don't really need the

41:21

phonetic spelling for this chit um an employment certificate given to the servant and that's a word that's entered

41:28

the english language from hindi from

41:33

an indian army setting mainly so just a few more quirky things to

41:39

finish off with how do you restore hair when removed by ill health or age

41:45

in this case the stimulating powers of onions are recommended in restoring the

41:51

tone in of the skin assisting the capillary vessels in sending forth new hair

41:56

um and the manual says it's not infallible but it won't do any harm so

42:02

um onions are actually very good for lots of things if you have a headphone um then cut an onion in half pour some

42:09

boiling water over it and sit fairly near it when it's cooled down a bit but as for restoring hair

42:15

who knows um but you can go to um professors of hair like henry lee

42:22

in went in leicester to professor moss um

42:27

there's a before picture of him looking very bold and this is the after picture but again there's a serious um message

42:35

behind this because um people are judged um by how they look to a very great

42:41

extent and if they're looking they've got gray hair and they're looking old um that might

42:47

again affect their um chances of employment and also um do you dye your hair or not

42:55

for those ashamed of their gray hairs for similar reasons and this one says i have operated upon

43:01

my own cranium for at least a dozen years and though i've heard it affirm that dyeing the hair will produce insanity

43:08

i am happy to think i am as yet perfectly safe now the serious thing about this is um

43:15

he said he used a solution of lime and letharg which was a form of lead um to dye his hair back and lead is

43:22

highly toxic so um used over a period time of time and insanity might actually

43:28

have resulted how do you teach a parrot to talk

43:34

because household pets are very popular during the victorian period the great parrot is said to be the best

43:41

uh teaching to talk um cover them up in the cage at night or in the evening repeat to them slowly and

43:48

distinctly the words they are designed to learn keep them well away from people who use

43:54

bad language because they'll pick that up quite easily as well so if you want your parrot to

44:01

talk that's the way to do it and finally this definitely falls into the category

44:08

of don't try this at home and on account of the person you want to model the features of your friend

44:16

why you would want to do that i don't know but um it happened apparently

44:21

on account of the person operated upon having a natural tendency to distort the features when the liquid pasta is poured

44:28

upon the face and some danger of suffocation if the process is not well managed we will

44:34

proceed at once to describe the various stages of operating now i'm

44:39

assuming that you don't want to do this and i won't bore you with the various stages

44:46

but that is my final slide for this lecture and um

44:52

i just say if um if you have enjoyed it as the saying goes then i am doing other

44:58

online lectures um i'm starting next week with a series of ten lectures on the theme of the

45:04

victorian countryside the first of which is rural britain in the age of great

45:09

cities by way of an introduction and on wednesday the 9th of october

45:15

at 10 30 in the morning i'm doing one on the general strike 1926

45:21

and i have put the numbers of the um lectures on because it's often easier to

45:26

find things on the wa website by the number rather than the title

45:32

so that's the end of the lecture i'll leave that slightly there for a few minutes but um are there any questions

45:40

fiona yes there are cynthia can you hear me okay yeah i can yes yeah yeah my gremlins

45:47

have struck yet again even work that's done being done on my laptop

45:53

this week so i think further investigations are required right so do you want me to have a look at the chat

45:59

well i've got a few of the early questions so yeah put those to you and if you wouldn't mind taking over from me

46:04

after that that would be right i'll stop sharing now um yes that would be good and folks um

Lecture

Secrets of the Moot Hall

What stories do the walls of a Moot Hall hold? These fascinating historic buildings, once centers of local governance and justice, are rich with mystery and intrigue. From medieval decision-making to hidden architectural gems, Moot Halls offer a glimpse into the lives and traditions of those who came before us.

In this captivating lecture, we’ll uncover the secrets of Moot Halls, exploring their history, significance, and the roles they played in shaping communities. Perfect for history buffs, architecture enthusiasts, and curious minds alike, this talk promises to reveal the untold tales of these unique landmarks.

Join us to discover the hidden history waiting to be unearthed in Moot Halls near and far!

Video transcript

0:00

uh and this is the slide we want to start with

0:06

so welcome um from sunny essex we're gonna take you on a pictorial

0:11

journey through the history of the new tool uh but first i thought to make sure

0:18

everyone's on the same page we say essex is here from the coast to

0:23

the capital to the east of london now i think you probably all knew that but just to be sure

0:29

do you know where molden is molden is at the head of the blackwater

0:35

estuary it's a very old town there was a battle of moldon in 991

0:41

which we lost but there's a statue to the man who led it

0:46

boats from malden used to fly up and down the east coast uh the thames barges with their

0:53

brown sails um just note where leia is

0:59

for a second because we'll come back to that during the presentation

1:05

what are moot halls well moot is the saxon word and it means a place of assembly

1:11

and originally the things were moved hills ring-shaped earthworks where the

1:17

anglo-saxon leaders would would meet and make decisions some of them acquired a permanent

1:23

building so hence it became a moot hall 15 places in england still have mood

1:30

halls they include old brewer colchester daventry kessick music catholic on time

1:36

steeple bumstead and of course malden so a few facts about malden it's in the

1:42

high street it's hidden in plain sight lots of people walk past it they don't

1:48

see what it is they don't know what it is they don't realize how much there is to see and what the history is it's from the

1:55

15th century it was a private house it was a courtroom it's been a prison it's

2:01

been a council chamber and a police station currently the town of malden owned the building and they promote educational

2:08

visits from schools we're going to take you on a complete tour of the building

2:14

um the committee room on the ground floor the cellar the prison yarmouth

2:20

now you might think the prison yard's boring but there's lots to see there um the county court under the courtroom on

2:26

the first floor uh the jewellery room the balcony the council chamber on the second floor

2:32

and the moonament room on the second floor and then we'll go right to the top and no one is going to have to walk up

2:39

any stairs this is a schematic of the building and as you'll see on the ground level we

2:46

have the the the police station common room on the first floor the main streets

2:52

court up against the council chamber then views from the top the bells

2:57

you're going to see some marvelous photographs of the walls and the brickwork in this building uh down to

3:04

the exercise yard and there's the underground cell as well so i'm going to hand over to julie now

3:10

who is supposed to say the expert on the building um julie why was the moon tool

3:16

built hi mike thanks for that um the moot hall was built as a brick

3:21

extension to a timber manor house that was already on the site um a young upstart lawyer by the name of robert

3:28

darcy had rolled into the town and got involved with a legal dispute with

3:34

bishop of london and regained the right for the town to have a a moot hall and its own

3:41

governance on the riding on the back of that he became the king's s cheetah for essex

3:47

which meant he dealt with uh property that was in limbo because um

3:52

perhaps uh courtier had died and there was no obvious claimant or that claimant was under age

3:59

so basically he dealt with children and wealthy widows one of whom he married a woman called

4:04

alice fitzlangley he married her in 1417 and then set about spending her money on this

4:11

elaborate brick tower which was added to the existing timber manor house on the

4:17

site which would have taken up and as you can see the space where the brick tower is and the end of the

4:23

portico you can then see a grey building and then a building beyond that

4:29

and those are all um part of the land that would have been

4:35

the the what was called the darcy mansion at the time

4:41

so um if you'd like to move on to the next slide

4:46

um this shows that the brick tower although this is a refaced front

4:52

um the building has always been this this section has always been in brick um was

4:58

made by flemish bricklayers in we think about 1420

5:03

and what you can see here is the front of the building the portico which is a later edition i'll talk about that

5:10

minute um and the clock which is linked to the glock um bells which you can see

5:15

hanging in the victorian belfry um and there is a second wing just slightly off

5:20

to the left it's offset and what you can't see from this angle but we will show in a minute is there is actually a

5:27

brick stair turret which is off to the right as you look at the building um as

5:32

this case you can actually see we have our christmas decorations up um we do it is always a center for the

5:38

malden's town decorations and we always have a beautifully decorated tree and lights it looks absolutely glorious it

5:45

is the center of modern civic activities you can move on to the next one if you

5:51

like okay so this is on the outside of the building this notice board is part of

5:56

the um the information that's under the portico

6:02

um and is the town council are the remnants really of the borough corporation that ran

6:09

malden from 1171 when we first received our borough arms which you can see

6:15

there at the top of the sign in 1974 we became the malden district

6:21

council the town council then became more of a parish council but they are fortunate or otherwise to

6:27

look after a number of uh beautiful old listed buildings and the moot hall being probably the best one of

6:35

the lot it is grade one listed and you can see on this um you can see a number

6:40

of other buildings mentioned uh all going back a long way in history to the

6:45

13th century so uh yeah that that's the properties that are

6:51

also in the portfolio of the town council and the um and the care of local

6:56

people if you'd like to move on to the next one

7:01

let's go inside well the first thing you see when you come in is this rather forbidding door

7:07

um probably originally an external door and it is now an inner door there is a

7:13

um a little porch area which supports a newer staircase that goes up to the

7:19

upper floors when that was put in the doors were reconfigured as you can see it is a

7:25

laminated door with multiple layers of pine on this side which faces the street

7:31

and would originally have been opening onto the street uh the um planks are

7:36

vertical um on the other side you'll see that they run diagonally and they've been riveted together this elderly strap

7:44

hinge is is absolutely beautiful we think the door dates from 1576

7:50

when the building was taken over by the town borough corporation and became the

7:55

moot hall as you said place of assembly when it was

8:01

purchased by the corporation and ceased to have any involvement with the darcy

8:06

family there was an occasion where there had a preacher in the prison in the 1660s

8:13

and he made so much fuss they actually added this hatch to allow the preacher john horrocks to preach to the town at

8:20

the time through the hatch 500 people would gather to hear him uh from

8:26

inside the moot at the hall prison if you'd like to go to the next one

8:32

so we go into the committee room the downstairs room um it's in this format

8:38

probably from about 1920 if you'd come in during the 19th century this was a prison and then a police

8:45

station certainly by the 1880s it was divided up into cells metal cells a bit

8:50

like the sort of thing you'd see in the wild west there were certainly two cells down here um but that was all removed in

8:58

1912 when the new police station was built elsewhere in the town uh so the

9:04

the format that it has now we we have the bricks which you can see on the walls and then it's just been tidied up

9:11

a little with some early 20th century paneling um beautiful committee table

9:18

and some of our artifacts that we show when we do our tours here i'll tell you about the scum skull and

9:25

the manacles shortly you can see off to the side to the left there is the access to the mayor's

9:31

parlor which is a ceremonial room still used on occasion by the mayor of malden

9:37

when they are robin and beside that slightly to the right there is an access

9:42

out to the rear of the building um through a little tiny door that goes

9:48

uh well we'll show you where that goes in a minute mike if you'd like to go on to the next one

9:53

thank you so this is the inside of the door because it's a prison door

9:59

it's um received a lot of attention from board prisoners in its time

10:04

and if mike can go on to the sec the next one you can see that it has a lot

10:10

of graffiti on it there are a number of different marks we have what are known as apotropaic marks which are religious

10:17

or um symbols uh of superstition i'm not sure we can see any on this particular

10:23

picture but obviously you can see uh initials here but you what you can also see is the door is a bit of a palimpsest

10:30

of graffiti uh door has been drawn on so many times and a lot of them

10:36

are boats so within this particular picture you can see if you can go back just for a

10:41

moment mike sorry you can actually see a very old boat

10:46

which is the larger keel and rigging that you can see but tucked inside it is

10:51

a tiny and beautiful picture of what is known as ahoy which is very much a local

10:58

boat very familiar on the river in the 18th century this was been stylistically

11:03

dated to about 1725 but clearly other boats have been laid over

11:10

the top of it i can see at least two other keels possibly three on that picture now you can go back where you

11:15

were mike sorry about that it's okay and again you can see here we've got

11:21

multiple boats drawn over the top of each other uh so here is quite a clear one and i

11:27

think this is intended to be a barge because there are some signs of uh a lee board but if you look in the

11:34

top right corner you can also see a small witch mark and a podrapic mark where you have two circles overlapping

11:41

circles we found this symbol in a number of places in the moot hall they are always on doors or entrances in and out

11:49

of the building they're designed to keep the witches away and i believe they've worked so far

11:54

but what you can also see in the bottom just in the bottom left is you can see the tail end of two m's or inverted v's

12:03

um and this again that's it so that's a sign for mary mother of god and when you see the v's the other way up it is virgo

12:10

vergara means the same thing so that's um a religious symbol but doing the same

12:15

thing somebody is asking for protection and we've seen these symbols all over the building um it's richly decorated

12:23

and and we're very lucky okay i think we can go on from there

12:29

what we got next next one please ah yes the murder painting uh this came

12:37

to us in the second decade of the 21st century um

12:43

this painting actually represents a relatively famous

12:49

murder case that came to the moot hall this is actually the

12:54

uh inquest into the death of a man called william belsham william belsham

12:59

was bludgeoned to death in a cow shed just outside the town and it didn't take long for the men and

13:06

women of the town to realize who had done it this guy who is seated who goes by the name of william seymour

13:13

this event took place in october 1814 and um the watch committee had raised

13:20

funds to help catch the man who you can see seated there um and they celebrated

13:26

the catching of the villain by having themselves created into this painting um

13:32

it is the coroner's inquest it took place on the first floor in the courtroom which you will see again

13:38

shortly though this painting hangs downstairs in the committee room and on the next piece of um

13:44

image you will see some segments of um paper that were found when we had the

13:50

painting restored it was in a terrible state when it first arrived we had it restored and what you can't quite see

13:55

because it's terribly tiny is the larger fragment on the right hand side contains an account of the murder and the chase

14:03

and the apprehension of william seymour he was eventually hanged in march 1815

14:09

for his part in this murder and you may have noticed the skull on the table

14:15

rather grizzly it is a 3d print not the real one but that is william seymour's skull because after the he'd been hanged

14:23

he was returned to malden and the local doctor dr may um

14:29

actually chopped him up for medical science and um the skull was kept we've since had it sculled the skull

14:36

scanned and um and he's at the moot hall the original one is in the malden museum and i've

14:42

completely forgotten the word for chopping someone up to analyze them after they've died but i'm sure it'll

14:47

pop back later next one please

14:54

anatomized there we go knew it would come back so here we are we can see william seymour's 3d printed skull and

15:00

also some of the collection of manacles that we hold at the moot hall rather grizzly um but the kids love them

15:07

they're fascinating and you can see here the third doorway on the back wall of the committee room

15:13

and that is the archway that goes through to our pride and joy which is the spiral staircase

15:20

uh probably added a little later than the hall was originally built it was certainly in place by about 1440

15:27

and is one of very few brick spiral staircases from the early 15th century

15:32

um it is absolutely beautiful all brick and this spiral continues all the way up

15:38

to the entrance to the roof although

15:43

it is sealed off at just above this level and you can't access the whole building but you can access the upper

15:50

floors once you're up there going through the new modern staircase which was

15:55

later added it is an incredible testament to the bricklayer's art as you can see and it's

16:02

called a new staircase because it rotates around this central column which goes as i said all the way up to the

16:09

basically to the flagpole and also has this integral hand rubbed brick

16:15

handrail that you can follow which is inset in and original to the staircase

16:21

it is truly magnificent we're very proud of it next one mike

16:28

so going back into the committee room and coming back to this door this is the

16:33

door that goes through to the cellar sometimes known as the dungeon uh i think one or two guides in the past may

16:40

have had a bit of a game with this there's no evidence that the cellular had been used as a dungeon but it was a

16:46

strong room uh built for darcy's uh treasures to be stashed the strongest

16:52

room in a fortified manor house this particular door is very very

16:57

special it dates to about 1420 you can see the strap hinges on it which tell us

17:03

it's original and also the graffiti is upside down because at some point in the 20th

17:08

century it has been hung the other way up you can actually see damage in the top right hand corner where the wood had

17:16

rotted and the hinges were falling out so they've been very uh reused recycled they've just turned it upside down and

17:22

hung it the other way um so again you'll see virgo for ghana engraved on that door as well so here's

17:29

the medieval strap hinge it is beautiful handmade obviously at the time

17:35

very rare and if you open that door you step down

17:40

into a passageway now the passageway has been cut through the thickness of the

17:46

wall this tells you how thick the walls are um and he's actually been cut through to

17:51

give access out to the uh to the prison yard um but actually cuts

17:58

right through the dome of the vaulted cellar leaving just this small hatch that you

18:03

can see to the left hand side that hatch takes you down into

18:10

the vaulted cellar it's rather damp and dreary and quite unpleasant

18:15

um for theatrical purposes we keep a few um manacles down there

18:21

as i said there's not really any evidence that it was a dungeon as such

18:27

um but who knows i would imagine if somebody was really naughty they could have been popped in there for a little

18:33

while um again you can see it is uh bricklined vaulted cellar semi-subterranean in that is half in and

18:40

half out of the ground so the ground level comes about halfway up

18:45

the wall of the cellar with a small vent this would probably originally have been

18:51

built by darcy would have kept his wine his valuables possibly any food he wanted it's kept stored um over a period

18:59

of time it's been used as a coal seller at one point it was filled with sand um

19:05

presumably never used for it at that time there are there are accounts of it being filled with sand currently it is

19:10

as you see excavated and has a dirty great waste pipe going straight down the middle of it from the mayor's loo

19:17

but there you go um and if you'd like to go on to the next one

19:22

the prison yard so you can access the prison yard as i said through that passageway that cuts through the old

19:28

cellar roof there is a possibility there are more sellers to be found um if the building

19:33

has changed over the over the years we're not really sure what else may be under there but when you come out you

19:39

come up through a set of steps into the uh the cellar yard um you will see from the picture on the

19:46

right that we've had to raise the roof uh sorry raise the pediment wall on more

19:51

than one occasion the first occasion was in the 1880s after a rather a dramatic

19:56

escape uh somebody was taken out to use the loo which you can see in the corner is um the elegantly named piecewise

20:05

we'll say more about that in the moment there used to be a wooden framework that went across the roof and you can just

20:11

see some scarring in the walls where the wooden framework was attached uh it was then raised up by about six or seven

20:17

courses um and then raised again and spiked and then the top half a dozen courses

20:25

which are in the slightly lighter brick were added only a few years ago i was giving a talk on one occasion and the

20:31

people who live in the house next door had built a deck and all their washing fell down on top of me

20:37

so it was and we've had wine glasses and barbecues and all sorts come over so it was raised again for safety because the

20:43

people have a higher level deck now in their garden and so that's the prison

20:49

yard um if we could go to the next one so the prison yard was laid out in 1836

20:55

after prison visitors the prison reform act had come in in 1835 um the police station had been created

21:03

so we had borough constables and it was decided that we needed to have some form of external space for exercise and

21:11

the call of nature as you can see here um it's um

21:17

it's very very basic but it is covered in graffiti and if you could go on mic to the next one

21:23

there are a series of interesting almost every brick is covered with something this one in particular as you can see a

21:30

rifle with a bayonet so presumably a soldier malden was a uh barracks town

21:36

uh from the early 1800s onwards we had a barracks in the town and soldiers are like sailors they're always getting

21:41

themselves in trouble uh so um it's likely that a soldier would have been uh

21:47

done this they would have had lamb bones and things we obviously wouldn't have had blades they were removed we've got

21:53

records of who came in with knives and things but they were always removed from them and

21:59

and we can move on there are some other examples this one is actually s gribbins of 1852

22:07

his full name appears uh also in a kind of cartouche somewhere else but you will

22:12

notice this isn't mike's bad photography this is written back to front he was writing in mirror writing and he's done

22:19

it the same with his name uh in full um so yes we don't know why but he used

22:25

mirror writing he may have been left-handed or some form of dyslexia or just like to be different we don't know

22:31

and the next one is a guy called george amy and george starts off small and his first graffiti

22:39

is about three feet off the ground and but over the years he must have grown up he is a serial offender we've

22:46

started to find his name in some records we are researching the prison records and the court records and george does

22:52

grow up and his top one is about six foot six off the ground and i think that's the one that yep that one there

22:59

so um he was clearly a regular visitor to this prison yard i think we've got

23:04

one or two more mike some of them give us a bit of an address so here's a robinson of putney

23:11

um and he's again it's a palimpsest over the top you can see other graffiti below

23:17

and here we're just gonna come on to you can see he's drawn over the top of some more and this one is a is an otter

23:24

footprint so it shows that the bricks when they were wet um there was obviously wildlife running

23:30

around um we've found evidence of brick clamps uh elsewhere in the town we do have london clay

23:37

so um i'm guessing there was a riverside brick clamp for the bricks to be made

23:43

and um a rather naughty otter has gone paddling across the bricks um but it's

23:48

nice that to think that probably otter was alive probably in about 1835 1836

23:54

something like that so recorded forever we go on mike

23:59

thank you now this is a view in the prison yard looking back towards the the

24:05

building so it's the opposite view that you would see from the front here you can see the stair turret

24:11

and um off to the right and you can see the rear range um you can see a noticeable

24:19

uh area of damaged brickwork this was some rather unsympathetic repairs that were done in the 70s

24:26

uh within the thickness of the walls on this side there is a rather large a couple of

24:31

fireplaces with with big chimneys and the chimneys uh had been cut through the

24:37

thickness of the brick and they were starting to go a bit so this repair was done

24:42

um also if you're interested and if you can see it just behind me is a similar view

24:47

of the moot hall from a painting done in the 1950s which actually shows a couple

24:52

of extra chimneys on the side of the building that aren't there now so again this building has changed

24:59

several times and you can see the shadow uh coming up the right hand

25:04

side and into the damage where there was an old um vent or flue and i wonder if that's

25:10

caused some of the brick damage that you can see there's just the shadow of the fixing on it right in the bottom right

25:16

corner okay onwards [Applause] yeah okay so now we're going to come

25:22

upstairs so to get upstairs because of the um because of the building of the prison

25:30

downstairs they sectioned off the spiral stair and in 1810 there was a lavish

25:36

refurbishment of the building to celebrate some uh regaining of charter privileges the first thing they did was

25:43

put a portico on and put this very um glamorous regency staircase in glamorous

25:49

for the time bearing in mind everybody had been stumbling up and down the old brick staircase for the past 300 years

25:55

so this went on in 1810 and it takes us up to a regency

26:02

um courtroom built in 1810 stroke 11 by the notable

26:09

malden carpenter and timber merchant john sadd the sad family became regular members of

26:17

the ruling classes in malden and we have many uh sads s a double d who were

26:24

counselors alderman and mayors they were non-conformists themselves and

26:30

this has been laid out using the basic idea of a box pew construction

26:36

you can see here the well in the center where the uh clerks and the lawyers would sit um across the back is the

26:43

magistrates bench um and the curtain which i know mike will talk to you a little about you can

26:49

just see in the top left corner the bar arms the three lines of england and

26:55

a ship because when we received our charter in 1171 we received it from the plantagenet king

27:01

henry the seventh second and the three lines were his emblem and

27:06

the ship because it is um given to us in the charter that we will provide a ship

27:12

whenever we are in time of need and ships from malden have been to the siege of calais they were in the armada

27:20

against the spanish in 1588 and indeed uh cromwell had a ship called the jersey

27:27

built at malden in 1651 so not only the king but the lord protector has

27:33

demanded a ship in time of need if you'd like to go on

27:40

um it didn't move hang on that's okay

27:48

oh dear why didn't it move

27:56

oh it's gone now there you go that's it okay so you can see a little more here of the courtroom um again you can see

28:02

the borough arms these were actually they're a silk banner stitched by

28:08

the mrs crone hermann crone the splendid new named herman chrome was one of our

28:13

mayors in the early 19 sorry in the early 1910s and his daughters stitched

28:21

this on silk uh as a banner that that went on the mayor's barge i think the mayors would love to have a barge now

28:27

and they don't get one now um you can also see the gasoline this is all part of our listing um in that this is a

28:34

converted gas lamp that is now uh electrified um but it all adds to the

28:39

sort of stately nature of this rather forbidding courtroom

28:45

it feels very dickensian because of the ebonized wood and i would imagine it was

28:50

quite a terrifying place to be you can see off to the right the staircase that

28:56

the door to the staircase which takes us up uh to the to the rest of the um

29:02

the next floor um mike if you can just move it on one for us and there you'll see a small step this

29:09

is in the prisoner's dock and i think mike would like to tell you a little about this well one of the things that

29:15

the guides do is they ask you why on earth is there a step there and there's a step there because

29:22

children couldn't be seen by the judge um and so i i had to

29:28

prepare a couple of ice creams to my friend molly to to pose um for this and just peer over the edge

29:36

um and you see the judge there is going to send her to australia that's phil our

29:42

caretaker at the moot hall and he's going to send molly to australia for for some petty crime that she's committed

29:50

but molly's mum is going to save her because molly's mom

29:55

is hiding behind the curtain and she's offering a 10 pound note to the judge

30:00

and that's why the curtains there so that people couldn't offer money or inducements to the judge

30:07

now that's all very humorous but let's be serious a second you see the visitors book here from

30:14

uh 19 from 2015 17th of october raymond

30:19

bradbrook from australia came and he was very pleased and honored to be here well

30:25

he was pleased and honored to be here because um before raymond bradbrook

30:31

somebody called berry bradbrook was actually sent to australia from this courtroom

30:38

and julie's done quite a bit of research into barry and what's happened to him and we're going to just talk about that

30:44

for a few minutes now you may remember i mentioned the word leia on the map there well leia bretton

30:52

is next to leia hay where where um it was on the map and berry

30:57

lived there and he was born in 1823 and he came to malden for the summer

31:02

fair in in 1837 and undercover of the hustle and the

31:08

riotous behavior of these events at the time he stole the silk handkerchief

31:13

um from mr boldeston but he wasn't very good and he got caught

31:19

and so on the 16th of october he found himself in the quarter sessions in that

31:24

very dock probably standing on the on the stall there so that he could be seen

31:30

by the judge we don't know but swiftly was found guilty and sentenced to 14

31:36

1-4 years of transportation to australia remember he was only 14 when he was

31:41

sentenced jones for chronicle which is still newspapers around as the essex chronicle

31:48

um reported that barry was taken from the springfield jail springfield jail is

31:54

still there in chelmsford um to the prison hall fortitude and later to the prison ship

32:00

uranus but the the recording in malden at the time mr walford petitioned to have his

32:06

sentence reduced and it was to seven years just in a handkerchief so back he went

32:13

to the fortitude along to australia where he was freed in 1845

32:19

and we believe that barry was a pulling hand on a whaler um he seems to have moved to adelaide

32:26

where in 1846 he owned the green road system of general dealers um he owned the butcher's shop note how

32:33

they spelt weymouth in 1847 and the year after he married

32:38

harriet ultimately he became a farmer and a landowner in athelstan and and purchased 33 acres

32:47

of prime market garden they had three children and barry died in 1865.

32:53

that's one of those um accidents of history with with raymond coming back over here we would never have known that

33:00

if you hadn't told us so we're still in the courtroom and we've turned 90 degrees to the left from

33:07

the dock so back to you julie thanks mike um i i i will just add i think it's

33:13

a terrific story the story of barry bradbrook because there's hope in it uh despite the fact that he uh left england

33:21

never saw his mother again he did see his family because at least one other brother uh managed to get themselves

33:28

transported as well uh to join him out there because it was the cheapest way to get to australia as long as you were

33:34

prepared to do the time um and they found it quite a dynasty out there there is still a brad brook road

33:41

in in adelaide uh and there are still brad brooks out there so uh you know they

33:49

done good which i think is quite reassuring because you know we always think these stories

33:54

of transportation have such dreary ends and for many i guess they did but for barry you know he probably did a

34:01

lot better than he would have done if he'd stayed in in leia so yes on to the the

34:08

rest of the courtroom so if you'd stood in this courtroom in 2005

34:14

uh you would have seen the fireplace that you're looking at now but where the bricks are you would have seen a rather

34:20

large and quite um bland painting of george

34:25

iii um george the third we found out was nobly holding up the ceiling uh because

34:31

what had happened was um the sole plate at the top of the wall had rotted the cross beam had sagged and uh the ceiling

34:39

was now wedged against the rather large plaster frame that was the painting and

34:44

you can't quite see from here but the top of the fireplace still bears the marks where the painting had got so

34:51

firmly wedged as part of a big refurbishment of the

34:56

moot hall that took place in 2006 due to some somewhat sinister cracks

35:02

appearing uh the painting was removed the scaffolding went on and when the plaster was removed they found this

35:09

ornate um trefoil headed arches um above the fireplace what this really

35:17

is is a decorative over mantle to a large fireplace um which was

35:23

much larger than the one you see there now um the bricks were ruddled there's still some sign of it uh in here where

35:31

the bricks were painted red and the mortar was painted white and that tells us this is darcy's great chamber because

35:38

he was showing off his brickwork um this makes this building and i have to get

35:44

this right the earliest decorated it's got twiddly bits

35:50

secular it's not religious brick building in east anglia possibly britain

35:56

um we'll go for that we'll we'll take that um so they couldn't put the painting of george

36:03

back because the bricks far more exciting um and give us an even more important status in

36:10

our listing what you can also see on this victorian fireplace which sits below the brickwork

36:17

um are you can just vaguely see it there are three masks of a lion's face they're

36:23

all slightly different and those masks again represent the three lines of england and in between

36:30

you can see two bundles of staves with an arrow at one end and an axe at the

36:35

other and these are the roman symbol the fascist from which we get the word fascist but in this case it is the

36:42

symbol of the state authority over the individual and no doubt anybody who was unfortunate

36:49

enough to be in that doc would have no doubt about the authority of the court

36:55

over them let's move on there we have a close-up here of the the

37:02

arches they would have been more symmetrical obviously there's been some damage and you can see the plaster on

37:08

the inside there to us they look quite plain you wouldn't have brick as your

37:14

decorative choice necessarily but this was very very important stuff

37:19

at the time and the darcy family were at the forefront

37:24

of this kind of decorated brick building very important

37:29

and onwards so here we have oh

37:36

was a fireplace there but it's gone that's fine we've already discussed the fireplace so then we have a couple of

37:41

extra pictures that are in in the courtroom the first is a rather unusual one um you may think you are looking at

37:48

charles ii and indeed you are looking at the face and the hair of charles ii but

37:54

you are looking at the body of george the first the first of the hanoverian kings

38:00

um this is by the school of godfrienella and for reasons known only perhaps to

38:06

some 18th or 19th century maldonian they have modified it to look like charles ii the

38:14

merry monarch i mean i do know that george first wasn't the most popular of kings and but there you go they painted

38:20

his face differently and the next painting my particular favorite artifact

38:25

in the building this rather cheeky girl whose eyes follow you around the room is our elizabethan lady

38:32

she is wearing the garments of um the court she has the three ostrich feathers

38:38

in her hair she has the cult of the virgin queen attire in that she's

38:43

wearing the large farthing gale the beautiful ropes of pearls and the

38:48

fan in her hand she's white leaded um her skin is white leaded

38:53

so she dates probably to about eight fifteen ninety

38:58

um we think she could be best rock morton whose father was the mp

39:04

for malden in the 16th century um if she is best rock morton she was

39:09

subsequently married to walter riley matched queen elizabeth the first disgust she threw them in the tower for

39:16

the uh for the cheek of it um and their first child did die in the tower um

39:21

this is believed to be by robert peake the elder but we are contacting bendor grosvenor to see if we can have a fake

39:28

or fortune done on it just to find out who she really is we'd really like to know there are a few other contenders

39:35

she's beautiful and i do tell my guides that should they decide um to evacuate the building up for any emergency i've

39:41

got to try and get this one off the wall first let's go to the next one

39:49

have we frozen again here we go

39:55

okay so back we come again to the murder painting uh you will notice that the uh

40:01

the gentleman is in irons poor old william belsham um and he is sitting on

40:06

a windsor chair we call it the murder chair and if we just skip there we go um we

40:13

believe this to be the chair um let's not the truth get in the way of a good story anyway and we we tell all

40:21

our visitors that that is the murderer's chair so this is the room off to the side of

40:27

the courtroom so it is above the mayor's parlor um which we talked about earlier

40:32

um it is now used to host uh small wedding receptions we serve drinks in here it has a beautiful 17th century

40:39

interior the paneling is 17th century we have our bust of samuel toughnell our mp

40:46

uh on the sideboard there and the most revolting victorian red brick monolith

40:51

of a fireplace which did replace a beautiful 15th century brick inglenook fireplace

40:58

which would have been there the remnants are hidden behind it and this is the fireplace where the chimneys are

41:05

collapsing or had collapsed and caused the repair work on the outside of the rear range

41:11

so yeah that's the jury room they would have sat around the benches deciding their verdict magistrate might retire

41:17

here for a decent lunch halfway through and there is um access to a guard robe

41:23

tower that you can't see in the pictures so there's always been a bathroom of sorts there we think it was probably

41:30

originally mrs darcy's sitting room because there are windows on three sides and would have been an escape for her

41:37

away from the great chamber just uh just the other side of the door um

41:42

the other side of the courtroom has access out onto the portico balcony this

41:48

view looks down the high street towards the river and shows that maldon is very much a

41:54

georgian looking town although all of these are false fronts and it is actually very much a medieval town at

42:02

heart when we get to the roof on the from the next floor you will see that all of these are false fronts and that

42:07

the buildings have all been gentrified in the early 19th century at the same time as the moot hall had its portico on

42:17

here's the clock beautiful clock given to the town by the mp george

42:23

courthold in 1881 he was also persuaded to provide the bells as well which

42:28

you'll see in the belfry um originally the clock was powered by clockwork mechanism and a gas light

42:36

inside of the opal glass of the front um so some poor soul had to lean out of the

42:42

top window lift the flap and light the gas it is now you'll be pleased to know all run by nice modern clean electric

42:50

um but there it is our town clock and about to be done up and have its gold gilded um details added back in it was

42:57

painted over black when the old queen died and we've decided it's about time

43:04

we put them back um hoping of course that the present queen doesn't require the same treatment should she pass away

43:10

anytime soon and we can go on to the next picture so we go up again up the wooden

43:16

staircase this is the wooden steps have been put over the top of the brick stairs they're still there underneath

43:24

and you can see above the paneling uh the bricks still sweep around in this

43:29

beautiful um pattern um what you can also see

43:34

is that we have added in oh my goodness sorry i've just got to stop my stupid

43:40

phone from ringing i do beg your pardon [Music]

43:46

oh what an amateur i'm so sorry um so what you can see is the remnants of

43:52

the old gas mantles uh on the wall and a beautiful insert

43:57

into the um embrasure of the window of some scrap pieces of medieval glass

44:03

um that have been inserted in to give us these nice little stained glass touches

44:09

which uh the morning light facing east that catches the morning light beautifully and it really illuminates

44:14

the stair beautifully on to the next thank you again you can see the gas

44:22

mantles um and the slightly less appealing modern emergency lighting there and some more of the medieval

44:28

glass and the curve of the vaulted uh staircase as it goes around as you can

44:34

see it is incredibly complicated um and um it's a miracle modern bricklayers

44:39

have said they don't know how they did this um incredibly technical piece of brick laying there

44:46

okay so we come into the council chamber the seat of power in malden from 1576

44:54

until well 1974 when the borough was dissolved to make way for malden district council but

45:01

it remained the town council's meeting place until the end of the 1990s when a

45:07

new modern town hall was built also of brick just around the corner on market

45:12

hill what you can see here is the horseshoe um desk uh the early counselors the

45:18

young councillors would sit at the bottom of the desk um and gradually make their way to the front where they could

45:24

join the alderman's table and of course you can see the mayor's chair right at the top um with the mayor's robes uh

45:31

hanging there beside the arms of queen and to one side and the arms again of

45:37

the borough to the other side um again beautiful paneled room uh probably early

45:43

victorian probably um when and the clock and you can also

45:48

see some of the charter cases um if you'd like to move on to the next one

45:54

so here we have um our previous mayor this is uh councillor mrs flo shaunicy

46:01

and our um now our mace bearer the tradition is that the mace bearer carries the mace in

46:07

front of the mayor in order to fend off any uh malefactors that may wish to come

46:12

along uh our our mace is uh beautiful um

46:18

it's made of several pounds of silver guilt um dating from 1689 it was commissioned

46:25

by our first mayor samuel pond um just after

46:30

we were given permission to have um a mayor previous to that it just been alderman

46:37

we didn't keep our mayor for very long before we fell out with the authorities and lost our charter for some years it

46:43

was returned in 1810 and the mace has taken part in all civic ceremonies since

46:48

that time um it's laid in front of the mayor's table um and forms the um

46:57

validity if you like of the uh the council in session and so there we go that's

47:03

that's how the mace works uh also in the courtroom we are sorry in the council chamber we have this

47:09

beautiful portrait of queen anne the last of the stuart monarchs she died in 1714 having having had and lost 14

47:17

children um it was her leaving the throne without an heir and

47:23

that caused the stewart dynasty to cease and the hanoverians to come in we know

47:28

that queen anne had a hunting lodge out at wooden walter which is a village just outside malden which was broken up after

47:35

her death and we believe that that's when this portrait but also by the school of godfinella um was purchased um

47:44

by a couple of older men and presented to the town in the cartouche that you can't quite see from here you can see it

47:51

you can't read it it actually is dedicated to the town of pamela dunham which is actually colchester but it was

47:57

believed at the time that the the roman um settlement of camelot dunham was malden

48:04

and that malden was a corruption of camilla dunham um they did believe if

48:09

they knocked down the church next door they would find the temple of claudius but that has since been proved to be at

48:14

colchester castle so we're very glad that they didn't um if you'd like to move on

48:20

here we have one of um quite a number of uh charters these are um

48:27

20th century copies the originals are held in the record office and but they do somewhat pleasingly have the holes

48:34

and marks of the drawing pin so obviously the 13th century originals were held into these cases with drawing

48:41

pins originally which i find quite amusing um each king in turn would ratify the

48:49

rights of the borough to be a to be a borough the rights to collect um fees

48:55

from the port to hold a um a courtroom um to have the right to a gallows a

49:03

tumble and a pillory um it defines the boundaries of the borough and also the right to have a

49:10

market um all of these would be ratified by each king and if there was a change of

49:15

circumstances uh somebody would be sent to petition the king perhaps for improved rights and privileges which is

49:22

why we have two from uh queen mary the first we have one from her in her own

49:27

name and then two years later we have one in the name of philip and mary uh because she had married philip of spain

49:33

so we gave we saw that as an opportunity to gain some extra privileges um if you'd like to move

49:43

it's on sorry there we go so this is a rather

49:50

beautiful clock and we have a pair of these late 17th early 18th century long

49:55

case clocks in the shinwasuri style this one they both work they both still chime and

50:01

they have the most beautiful quarter chimes as well um this one is by edward hunsden of chelmsford and though he did

50:08

have a shop in malden too if you'd like to move on

50:14

here we have our portrait of dr thomas plume he may not be familiar to many of

50:20

you if you're not local um we still have a plume school in malden he um founded the plumium a

50:27

professorship of astronomy um and also when he died um he was a

50:33

bachelor uh clergyman and he left his own library

50:39

to the town in a purpose-built building that he had built some years before he died

50:45

the the library is still in place um it was it was open to the public in 1704

50:51

when he died and uh his will instructed that his portrait should never hang

50:56

in the library it should always be elsewhere and was left to the pond

51:02

family um of whom the first mayor samuel pond um and it came here to the moot

51:07

hall um which it hangs happily in the council chamber where his father was a was an um

51:15

an alderman of the town so we call him plume in the gloom because he doesn't photograph terribly well and there's

51:21

actually quite a lot of detail there but it is very hard to see it but it has been cleaned rather too much

51:28

so we can't do any more to it and but we're very proud to have him and the last thing here is these

51:34

constable staves these are the staves of office that the constables would parade with um

51:41

we think that possibly the silver one on the far right is a forerunner of the

51:47

earlier mace because it is a silver head the one to the left is a pewter head as

51:52

these are early forms of mace and then we have the constable staves which were decorated

51:58

for the um coronation of george the fourth in um so uh yeah and we again have another

52:06

representation of the bar at arms

52:11

a muniment room mike am i doing this for you i'll i'll do you do this

52:19

um movement is a legal term for a document a title deed or other evidence that

52:25

indicates ownership of an asset i mean today i guess we have deeds of our house

52:31

but the words derive from munamentum meaning fortification bulwark and thus

52:37

movements of title were written evidence that the owner had to defend his estate

52:45

but where would you keep them whether you would keep them somewhere safe wouldn't you julie

52:51

you certainly would um one of the few meaning rooms that i've heard of apart from ours is the um the rare collection

52:58

of documents at westminster abbey which has a monument room but in morden's case we have a muniment chest

53:06

and and this rather elderly example actually dates stylistically to around

53:13

the late 1400s there's a very similar one at leomani um

53:19

this one has three locks as you can see and only one of them um well all of them

53:24

have been damaged one of them has actually been um yeah they've been yanked open because when we lost the bar

53:31

charter uh in 16 late 1600s the town clerk

53:36

uh mortgaged all the documents in order to raise money they even mortgaged the moot hall um and uh no town clark would

53:45

do that now i hasten to add and i happen to know there is a former town clerk here tonight and so um they would never

53:52

consider doing such a thing but you can see that the locks have all been forced open uh for this nefarious activity to

53:58

go on it's a it's a medieval iron-bound six-plank chest it is only made of six

54:04

pieces of wood and um it is extremely heavy uh so if it

54:11

if it was brought here in 1576 when the borough moved to the building um it

54:17

hasn't moved very far but it could equally have belonged to darcy and have been there all along um it's not easy to

54:26

move and there it is there's the lid we have here the burra seal um this is a

54:34

beautiful little mechanism made by mold and ironworks we have a great tradition of the ironworks in malden again there's

54:40

a reputation representation of the ship from the borough arms this was a wind-up mechanism so you

54:47

would impress the seal into a document or possibly i don't know if it could be used on wax perhaps uh to to ratify any

54:56

documents um so that still has it it would have been used until 1974

55:01

when the borough became the district council and a new seal was created

55:08

and we have uh one little artifact that's uh been hanging around in the moot hall for heaven knows how long um

55:15

it has a label on it that says admiral six bar um and we don't know we just call it the

55:21

admiral's hat box um maldon did have a court of admiralty so did an admiral come in with his hat in a

55:28

box and go out with it on his head and leave the box behind or was it used originally to store a

55:34

mayor's hat they are very similar we don't know but it's rather lovely and

55:39

currently has gone walk about so we we are on the hunt for the hat box at the moment

55:46

and we have very close links to the town of malden's felt wrong m-a-l-d-e-n uh in

55:52

america in massachusetts and uh there have been regular visits between uh the

55:57

two towns um this is a copy of the declaration of

56:03

independence for the town of massachusetts malden in 1776

56:08

um uh rebellious colonials the lot of them obviously

56:13

um and now we go up to the roof and we start with the door that

56:18

confounds uh all our visitors uh this is actually a sash door uh there's no room

56:25

really for an opening door on on the site of this staircase so they've rather

56:31

cunningly put a sash door in as you can see it right this slides up and regularly trick my visitors with that

56:37

one and that takes us into the very very steep staircase that goes from the top

56:43

floor to the roof again guarded by one of these witch marks

56:48

of the two interlinked circles designed to confuse a witch who is so busy following the circles that they cannot

56:55

escape and cannot get into the building this one is right at the top of that staircase and there you are looking down

57:02

the staircase as you can see it is very steep not for the faint-hearted um but

57:08

it does get you up to the roof where you have the most spectacular views and i

57:14

think mike is going to take it off from there you come out of the the doorway there

57:19

um in the staircase onto the to the top and you can see for miles and miles which

57:25

i'm going to prove to you shortly we managed to get the mayor to come up there for us as well and you can see to

57:32

the right it's high tide um and the molded estuary the black water estuary is going out

57:39

um another view across there um there are the bells and people think

57:44

that it's the church bells ringing but it's not it's our bells and a close-up of the bells if you're

57:50

interested in bells a longer view towards bradwell out to

57:55

the sea and you can see how the estuary bends around there that one's not quite at

58:01

high tide um now here you can see the end of the

58:06

promenade if you follow my little arrow there we get to the statue of brithnorth

58:12

who lost the battle of malden in 991 you can also see some of the malden

58:19

uh sorry some of the thames barges on the height key there a different view

58:25

and look in the same direction um we mentioned the guides like tricho

58:30

and the guides will ask you where these three towers are and most people think well there aren't

58:35

any towers tower blocks anywhere near here because we're in the middle of the country um the the tower blocks were actually on

58:42

the sea from the south end 10 miles as the crow flies 25 miles by

58:47

road and about about an hour round by road

58:52

um the high street down again at high tide as you guys

58:57

julie said the the buildings all the crusades at the front and and their medieval houses at the back

59:04

the church top of the high street um this this little glass window affair

59:11

here is called the belvedere and the the ship owners used to build these so they

59:16

could watch their men working on the key um rather than have to walk down to the key

59:22

in the cold wet so they could spy on them effectively

59:27

oh looking down from the top summer so um um apologies we have a little bit

59:35

over time but if you're if you're ever in essex you can book a visit to the moot hall uh and i'm gonna stop showing

59:42

my sheets screen and go back over to fiona

59:50

sorry about that i rather took longer than i should didn't i it's hard to shut me up when i'm talking about the move

59:55

ball you're muted

English (auto-generated)

Lecture

The History of Ice Cream

Who doesn’t love a scoop of ice cream on a hot day? But have you ever wondered where this delicious treat comes from? In this delightful lecture, we’ll take you on a journey through the fascinating history of ice cream—from its ancient origins to its global popularity today.

Discover how early frozen desserts were made, the surprising role ice cream played in historical events, and the evolution of flavors and techniques over the centuries. Whether you’re a history enthusiast, a foodie, or just an ice cream lover, this talk is a treat for everyone.

Join us for a sweet exploration of how ice cream became one of the world’s favorite indulgences!

Video transcript

0:04

okay so

0:10

so let's start with a few a few basic details about ice cream and the way that we treat it right now

0:17

last year it was estimated that most of us about a third of the british

0:22

population ate ice cream two to three times a week without increasing um to

0:28

once a week across the board and we know what people's favorite flavors are

0:34

and the thing about ice cream is it seems to be that you can do pretty much anything with it if you decide you're

0:40

going to make a flavor of it then ice cream will respond to that

0:45

um and i've put some examples of some more weird and wonderful ones i even heard um this week that um there is an

0:52

american company who is creating a bogey flavored ice cream and ice cream that

0:58

tastes like a mcdonald's don't ask me why um anybody who's made ice cream will tell you that one of the things about

1:04

ice cream is of course that the flavor needs to be stronger because the um temperature takes takes some of the the

1:12

taste out of it so um melted ice cream always tastes much more violent in its in its flavors than

1:20

the frozen ice cream that you prefer which is why it's so popular with people exploring so you know strong flavors

1:26

like horseradish and seaweed um but our favorite is no doubter the vanilla certainly my

1:34

favorite um closely followed by chocolate strawberry so those of you like a neapolitan covers all the bases

1:43

um first of all let's get this out of the way because this is the question i get asked the most

1:49

what's the difference between ice cream or galato and where does sorbet fit into all of

1:55

this so let's let's go with this um both ice cream and galato have a

2:00

custard base so in order to make ice cream of any kind or galato you're going to start

2:06

with a custard base however ice cream has more cream in it

2:11

and it has often has eggs in it to create of the rich custard that we

2:17

prefer it's churned at quite a high rate it's one of the reasons why if you're trying

2:22

to make it at home an ice cream maker is useful because it's about adding air and

2:27

therefore you've got that fluffy quality the ultimate one of course is is the one that comes out of ice cream machines

2:33

you're mr whippy because that's a lot of air goes in this galato he's a custard base that is more close

2:41

to what the italians think of as a custard and therefore has much less creams a lot more milk in it and no eggs

2:48

occasionally you'll get it in in galata recipes but not very often and it's churned at a much lower rate much slower

2:56

so it produces a denser heavier ice cream for those of you who are vegans sorbet

3:02

is the way to go because sorbet is a dessert that is simply made of

3:07

fruit puree or even fruit juice a little bit of sweetener very commonly

3:13

um simple syrup as you would use in cocktails because i would using cocktails

3:18

and um is frozen like that and is intended to have a certain amount of ice crystals in it

3:26

if you even go one stage further and you go to granita granita is um just frozen

3:32

juice with the simple syrup in it and it is only broken up when it gets served so

3:37

that has very big ice crystals and it is quite chunky one of the reasons for ice cream's wider

3:44

success and wider access is that the ice cream base with the cream and the eggs in it can be dehydrated in a way that

3:52

the galato custard base can't and therefore by adding water to it just

3:58

like you would do with um a kind of baby milk you would end up with something that is perfectly edible

4:04

as an ice cream and that's the kind of thing that you would get an ice cream van that's usually a powder base that's

4:11

that has water added to it so that's what the basis is i'm going to use ice cream as a general

4:17

term um generally speaking mostly we're talking about the ice cream

4:23

in this form so the origins of ice cream i'm not quite sure we'd like it

4:30

um it was created in china somewhere around about 12th century

4:36

it was believed to have medicinal properties and um was composed of

4:43

milk from a cow ago or buffalo that was fermented

4:48

and then heated with flour and cancer now just to kind of give you a heads up this isn't camphor like crushed

4:55

mothballs this is camphor from a particular plant but camp for laurel

5:00

which is um used to scent and help with the texture of foods

5:07

in um increased even now you will still find camphor edible camphor

5:13

being used in thai food for example and the whole idea was to help it stabilize as well you'll get that in

5:20

recipes too it was thought to have medicinal properties properties and um the records

5:26

show us that it was flavoured with brain dragons brain fragments and eyeballs now i'm not quite

5:32

sure what that is um i've not been able to find out it doesn't sound very nice um

5:39

uh and it was extremely labor-intensive um when the emperor demanded ice cream

5:46

it was going to take 94 men to create it so it would be made into um

5:53

a custard with these items in it uh it would then be put into

5:59

metal tubes and then lowered into a frozen lake and that's how it would get frozen

6:06

interestingly the lake bit notwithstanding the enclosure in metal and being frozen

6:11

that way is very similar to coffee the indian dessert which has very similar

6:17

properties to ice cream but not quite exactly the same um

6:24

those you've had it will know what i mean about its similarity to ice cream

6:29

and then we have to deal with a myth lots and lots of people think that marco polo was the person who brought ice

6:35

cream to italy and probably he probably wasn't um what he

6:40

tried and what he probably brought back was something that was closer to coffee

6:46

or possibly even sherbet which is um more like a frozen milkshake

6:51

than anything else um and he certainly did bring the recipe back with him but the it was another 300

6:58

years after marco polo before the italian started to protect perfect

7:03

ice cream as we know it so we know it started appearing as a novelty uh at parties if you really

7:09

wanted to show off you didn't put your pineapples on sticks in 16 and 16th century sorry 17th century you'd produce

7:16

some ice cream um and then around

7:23

catherine dimitchy gets a demodic she gets married to henry ii of france

7:29

and her chefs created an ice cream for each one of the day's festivities they were two weeks of

7:35

festivities they created 14 different flavored ice creams to be served to the

7:40

highest quality guests including as you can see in the allegory in the center the pope

7:46

and one of the things that they did was that they decided they were going to

7:51

change the milk in the recipe that they had to cream and thus producing the ice cream with

7:57

which we are now most familiar um the flavors were all fruit-based

8:04

they didn't try going going anything fancy apparently the most popular was the

8:09

peach from the uh information that we have um we can't see any i couldn't find any

8:15

pictures of the ice cream at the time um so i've given you an allegorical painting the wedding

8:24

finally arrived in uh in the uk uh in england uh just at the beginning

8:30

of the restoration so we know the first ice cream that was served in the uk was part of a feast of

8:37

george that was given by charles ii um and he was given and this was him

8:44

alone um a dish of white strawberries and ice cream which we know was flavor with

8:50

pineapple now this is hide luxury this was only what the king

8:57

was going to get nobody else got this you can see on the menu that's on the left there this was a menu for

9:03

the second feast in 1672 the original menu has gone missing we don't have this

9:10

and you can see it says at the top the sovereigns table on the eve so those

9:15

particular foods were only going to be served at the top table and the reason for that is quite simple

9:22

really that all of the stuff that's there has to be forced we're talking about a uh

9:29

a meal that was eaten in may in the middle of a mini ice age this was

9:35

the period of time when the threat of the thames froze over and

9:40

were having frost fares on the thames itself so to have strawberries

9:45

and particularly white strawberries um available to the to the king in may

9:51

would have meant they must have been forced in a in a glass house somewhere for that to happen

9:56

along with that you've then got this matching luxury ice cream is still very difficult to

10:04

produce you can only make small quantities of it and the ultimate of course is to flavor it with pineapple

10:10

which is the most exotic of fruits and was during the late 17th century was a kind

10:16

of icon you see on buildings you see it in fabrics um because it's so exotic and

10:23

so rare so this would this was a really big deal to be giving this to the king and to be

10:28

showing that his status was was far and away beyond what anybody else's could

10:34

possibly have the first english recipe or the first

10:40

recipe in english we know of was written down by lady ann and she calls it icy cream

10:47

uh now lady fanshawe fascinating character if you you know want to look her up

10:53

she was um part of the court of charles the first in oxford during the civil war

10:59

where she met and fell in love with her husband desperately in love with her husband when he was imprisoned after his capture

11:06

at the battle of worcester she almost ruined her health by going standing underneath his window so she could talk

11:11

to him every day but they traveled all over and he uh husband became quite a notable

11:18

ambassador and she was sent he was sent to lisbon in portugal

11:23

to negotiate the marriage of charles ii to catherine of bergansia

11:30

um and she was party and and went with him and it is believed at this time that this is how it is that uh

11:38

ann first had encount first encountered ice cream and came to write the recipe down

11:44

however this recipe doesn't work she's missed out a one vital ingredient

11:51

and [Music] unfortunately if you try to make it work follow wing anne's recipe she's just

11:58

missed something out which is the other thing that tells us that possibly um it wasn't a it wasn't something that

12:04

she knew how to do it was something that she'd been told about but it's still the first recipe in

12:10

english it's got um it's quite highly spiced it's got mace and orange flower water in it

12:17

and if you can make it up it's actually quite nice um it's very different to what we would

12:23

think of as ice cream but it's still our first recipe so we should honor it

12:33

how's this i mean in some ways the history of ice cream is the history of our passion too and relationship with

12:39

ice um the images here are all of icehouses

12:45

and um so whilst they always tend to

12:51

have a different appearance depending on whether where they are they all tend to work into the same way

12:58

um so you have a porch-like entrance and a dome over the top if you look at the

13:04

image on the top left hand side there you can see an example of the dome

13:09

and these these buildings would either be hidden away or they would be turned into some kind

13:16

of folly like the thatched cottage in the center and the whole idea was that it was they

13:22

were meant to be buried under the ground because that helped keep the temperature low and you would go into the into the porch

13:29

and beneath that you would find a really really deep hole and that deep hole would be filled with

13:35

ice during the winter uh there'd be a drain at the bottom of

13:40

the pit so as the ice melted the water would flow away so you wouldn't end up with a great big pond of icy water but

13:48

it was such a useful innovation that lots and lots and lots of them were built all over the country at this point

13:55

we know of around about two and a half thousand that still exist across the country

14:00

um we think there are probably more and sometimes they keep being used now i

14:07

should emphasize at this point that um ice was not used in food it was used to

14:15

to keep food you could store meat uh in ice houses

14:20

and other perishables um and

14:25

um they had lots and lots of uses for ice and beyond just trying to keep food cool

14:32

if you're needing your ice to make ice cream we'll come to that in a little while but ice was also used for all

14:38

manner of other things um as we do it now you can use it to bring swelling down it was used

14:44

sometimes to control fever it was used for um chilling drinks

14:50

so if you wanted a nice cold drink and you would come and get some ice put it in a bucket and put some wine in it

14:56

that's why in some country houses you see great big um what look like half barrels

15:01

and they are they are ice containers for you to put cold drinks into as we move

15:07

through the centuries ice cold champagne um becomes a thing by the regency period

15:14

um that is a delicacy and is much used by the aristocrat oxy and of course it's

15:19

best served cold the other thing that it was used for was of course um for

15:26

medical purposes to bring swelling down when possible it was also offered as something that could

15:33

be used to numb the pain just prior to amputation

15:38

which doesn't sound to me like a very very likely scenario um i guess you're

15:44

going to have your leg cut off then you're going to try anything once the other extraordinary thing is it's

15:49

also the source of the expression butter wouldn't melt in your mouth

15:55

you would find in a mortuary you would find blocks of ice where they would be trying to keep the bodies cool

16:01

before um disposal and one of the things that they would try bearing in mind this is a

16:07

victorian obsession with being buried alive um on top of the one of those boxes of

16:12

ice would be a saucer with cubes of butter in it and that cube of butter would be put on the lips of the deceased

16:18

and if it melted they would be concerned that person was still alive if the butter didn't melt then you were pure

16:26

and innocent and gone over to the other side and that was a way that that particular expression comes from but it

16:32

wouldn't melt in your mouth remember the science bit i mentioned

16:38

earlier that um that ice wasn't used in food it was used to create food now the

16:44

problem with that is that ice alone won't freeze things you can put something in the icy

16:50

environment and it will freeze something eventually but it's not fast enough for the making

16:56

of ice cream so one of the things that they did was that they mixed they figured out

17:03

a particular scientists figured out that um the mixture of

17:09

ice and salt would do the trick so water freezes um

17:15

at zero degrees centigrade kind of know that milk and cream won't until you get

17:22

it much colder so the mixture of ice and salt create a temperature that makes it drop much

17:28

lower um it's to do with

17:33

the fact that you are attempting to keep lots of different states in action

17:39

so ice cream is not just about making ice crystals it's about also making um

17:45

a kind of emulsion and therefore you need this particular lower temperature to get it going

17:53

if you don't have that lower temperature then what you end up with is something closer to a sorbet with lots and lots of

18:00

big ice crystals in it not the lovely smooth ice cream that we actually crave for

18:07

if the ice crystals get too large the ice cream becomes gritty and

18:12

unpleasant to eat so ice cream became um as people

18:18

realized that they could actually expand this then it became not so much a luxury but something that

18:24

everybody could have on the streets and the way that that was done was to produce something called a penny lick

18:31

um and the images in the top right hand corner there are some penny lit glasses

18:37

um originally there was it was a dollop of ice cream served in a shell

18:42

possibly an oyster shell because oyster shells were really common and really cheap and it was

18:47

not much more than a leg and then you'd hand back in this particular case the glasses you can see

18:53

how the glasses have a stem on them with a very small bowl in the top for the ice cream

18:59

um very much mimicking the cone which we'll talk to talk about in a minute and you'd hang your glass back

19:05

there are people who collect them they come in come in all sorts of different uh decorative shapes but they're all quite

19:12

small um they're about four inches high and you would hand it back to the person

19:17

you bought it from who would then probably dunk it in the same water you've been using all day i'll give it a quick wipe and then hand

19:24

it back to the next liquor now it was figured out quite quickly this was a really fast way to spread

19:30

disease in in um in 1899

19:36

a law was passed banning the use of penny links because they were they believed that they were

19:41

contributing to the spread of tuberculosis and they probably were

19:47

that and many other diseases but you can see the the children gathering around there they're not really interested in

19:53

the in the notion of disease um they're much more interested in the

19:58

joys of ice cream um some parts of the country still talk about the oaky pokey man

20:04

um when the ice cream van turns up and that is a derivation of the italian

20:10

heritage of um the ice creams that we so many of the ice creams that we we eat

20:16

um now and the hokey pokey is a

20:22

um a derivation of echo and poco or ichi boko which means you know oh a little a

20:29

little something a little sweet something um and that's the implication of what it is that

20:37

that they're doing um [Music]

20:47

so the next big phase of course in uh the widespread use of ice cream

20:53

is uh mechanical refrigeration uh in 1945 uh in america the first

21:01

refrigerator came along and so though this was this beginning of a

21:06

luxury they've been around they've been gas-fired freezes since about the 1935

21:14

but most networking families couldn't actually um afford a uh um a fridge

21:22

so the way that they would get it would be through um an ice cream van

21:28

so a motorized uh fan that would come around street to street

21:33

with the familial method of calling everybody to their side of mr whippy or mr sofie softly with the

21:41

the tunes that they played now there is a whole whole other discussion to be had about the different

21:47

genes that they played but not go there so it was 1956 before

21:53

soft whip ice cream in america um

21:58

and it was two years later that we got our own soft whip the kind of ice cream that you're used

22:03

to buying from an ice cream van um mr softy is the american version mr whippy became the english verse and

22:12

you can see there's not a lot of difference in the in the logos that they're using

22:17

and um they became an international success because they went everywhere

22:25

and because they could they didn't have to have a permanent kind of setup they were able to uh access

22:32

everything across the board and this made them they made them very popular um

22:37

i'm sure that we all have our own memories of our own particular um

22:43

favorite ice cream van that came around i know that it was always very very

22:48

for us it was always you know looking forward to the 99

22:54

by the way 99 ice creams nobody quite knows exactly the derivation of that the whole idea of having a cone with a

23:01

chocolate flake in it um the idea of maybe that it was 99 pence worth no that seems an awful lot

23:08

of money and also it's been around longer than decimalization so nobody quite knows and there's several

23:14

several um different groups that claim that they were the first people that invented it but nobody quite knows if

23:20

anybody knows the story they'd love to hear it

23:25

and conall cup so up until um

23:31

the beginning of the 20th century following the disappearance of the penny

23:37

lick everything was served in a cup a disposable cup um and that is still the choice that

23:43

some people made we know that there was the idea of having cones

23:48

um that was uh available to us up until before that point um but

23:56

it was a kind of thing that you would do at home uh but it wasn't until the

24:02

world's um that's the world's fair we're talking

24:08

about and um a chap called uh arnold fonunchino

24:15

ran out of cups during the course of the of the world's fair so it was so very popular so rather

24:22

than go home he went he went around the corner and he spoke to a friend of his a chap called ernest hamwe who was a

24:28

syrian um who was making waffles and he said okay

24:34

can we roll these up into a into a cone shape and then i'll put ice cream in the top

24:40

um and that was the start of the cone as we know it so when they talk about waffle cones it is a direct link to the

24:46

original ones they were called world's fair cornucopias um and they rapidly got

24:51

shortened to to cones um and these were very popular but of

24:57

course they all had to be hand rolled and that took time and therefore it made them a little bit more expensive

25:03

still in this case you'll often find that a cone is a more expensive option for

25:08

you when you go to an ice cream parlor or an ice cream shop than a cup because you are actually

25:15

paying for something for something extra and something edible but in 1912 somebody came up with the

25:21

first machine for ice cream ice cream cones and then they became became universal

25:28

and of course now an ice cream to choosing what cone you want for ice cream is becoming

25:34

harder and harder and harder because there are many many different versions so you've got your straightforward comb

25:40

from the ice cream van you've also got um your cones from

25:47

from the traditional waffle ones you've got cones that have been dipped in chocolate you've got cones that have got

25:53

marshmallow underneath the chocolate i've seen all sorts of things and the most remarkable one that i think i've

25:58

ever come across it was uh in chroma where they give you a comb you put the

26:04

ice cream on it and then they dip the whole thing in melted chocolate so you've kind of got an ice cream cone

26:11

choc ice mix it's very difficult and very messy to eat

26:17

because of course the ice cream melts faster than the chocolate you can get through all the chocolate but there you

26:22

go um so i've done a bit of research

26:29

here is a list of what are thought to be the top 10 best ice cream

26:35

um shops or parlors across the country they are literally across the country

26:40

and the two at the top morelli's in broad stairs and nadines and largs

26:46

are on everybody's lists um the bottom two

26:51

not so many lists but these are my personal ones uh sedola's cafe and elsewhere other than nebu vale is my

26:57

husband's personal favorite he's welsh so that's his excuse and swoon which is

27:03

available in bath and bristol if you're ever in bath it's on kingsmen square and they do an amazing range and

27:10

they've managed to stay open through the pandemic as well um god bless them um

27:15

but you can also see on here something of the history of

27:22

ice cream making in this country so many of the names on here are italian

27:29

um so we've got morelis we've got nadines we've got galliposo in soho we've got verdi's alonso's

27:37

and sedolas itself and all of these are to do with um italians moving from italy

27:45

usually post war um and what they were doing is they were going to the nearest port the story is

27:52

and they would get onto a boat and they'd say take me to england and then they would be

27:57

wherever that boat was going that's where they would end up and then they would get off the boat and they

28:03

wouldn't really know what to do so they take the skills that they had in terms of making ice cream um some of

28:09

them turned to making fish and chips quite a lot of them open coffee bars within the port that they were dumped in

28:16

which is why you've got these little um these little groups of italian ice cream parlors around ports so swanty and

28:24

cardiff have their own particular collection and they move out from there up the valleys the same up in glasgow

28:30

uh in liverpool uh in much to a certain extent

28:36

in london wherever it was that these these italian refugees were dumped this is where they

28:41

would set up their ice cream parlors on that basis the best one should be in the isle of man but

28:47

that was because they were confined there during the second world war maybe rather than

28:53

perhaps enjoying their time there and so that hasn't actually followed through

28:59

um so i've been talking really really fast if

29:06

um if anybody's interested in any of the uh other things that i'm going to be

29:11

doing here is a couple of other things i'm doing just a few things i should mention

29:16

if you're interested in historic cooking you want to know some more about it then i'm running a course on that

29:23

i'm also interested in feminist history so you've got a and forgotten

29:28

women of history and people who change the theater so you're interested in fit and you want to know why theater looks the way it does

29:35

now it will be through the period through the people that i'm going to be talking about

29:40

and georgia hey if you're a bridgeton fan and you want to know a little bit more about regency romance um then

29:47

that's another course for you to have a look at um and i'd really like to see all these

29:53

questions popping up in the chat i'd really like to know what people are thinking so ice cream

29:59

fiona are you in are you are you there i am yes we seem to get through that very

30:04

quickly didn't we we did yeah well i'm sure when we practiced it wasn't that long yeah

30:09

i don't know if you want to stop sharing now so that means yeah and there we go a little bit better yeah lots of lots of

30:16

questions coming in so i'm gonna i'm gonna start with a question that interested me actually this is one that

30:22

came from now who was it um yes philip thornton issue of

30:29

gelato or gelato because i've always known it to be gelato so i don't know

30:36

what your thoughts are on that in terms of the pronunciation yeah well that's one of those ones that we're

30:42

dealing with the different different languages i think the italians would say gilatto

30:48

and we would say gelato because well we're british um

30:53

both both are acceptable um it's certainly jalara it's certainly

30:59

galateria uh in uh you see lots and lots of people are

31:05

telling us it's it's pronounced with the j sound gelato in italian so

31:11

i'm going to bow to superiority italian is not my language but yeah they say this the same as you know that

31:18

j sound is is uh an interesting one in many european languages

31:23

but thank you everybody that clears that one up clears that one up um

31:29

now jan um had a quick question actually quite early on about some of the numbers you were talking about at the start

31:36

and 3.6 million eating ice cream three times two or three times a week

31:41

4.57 million once a week is that is that quite right

31:47

because i think you had something about it being a quarter of the population of the country i'm not quite sure if if it

31:55

actually adds up yeah it might it might it might not do i mean the um the figures themselves were

32:01

taken from um the government's one of the annual government surveys of our taste of our habits

32:08

um we have they they do a survey every year of the kind of things that we're eating and drinking um

32:14

it's one of the reasons that you know they know that um

32:20

the that the probably the most popular dish that british people eat is curry

32:26

um which is you know an interesting reflection on on the way things are

32:32

developed over time um in terms of population it's not my field

32:39

of expertise so if i if i've given misled you there on my apologies i can go go away do some extra maths

32:48

okay right here's a question from david jones how is semifinal different from other

32:55

ice creams and gelato right semi-fredo is deliberately not

33:00

frozen all the way through so what you've got so is something that is more like um

33:09

more like a i suppose it's a cold lumonge texture so that you

33:15

um you actually can kind of put your fork in it the nearest thing i would say it's

33:20

like it's like a frozen beverage um so the deliberate the intention is that you wouldn't freeze it until it was

33:27

until it was firm you'd freeze it until it was semi-firm hence semi-freedom so

33:33

you know half frozen um and um

33:38

it's just another way of attempting to make you make ice cream different or

33:44

more interesting the thing about a semi-fly dough as well is that you can't use that you have to be really careful with the flavoring

33:51

because you don't freeze it as far as you do with an ice cream um

33:57

what you're doing is you're you're only going halfway so the result is that you need something

34:03

that is a little less strongly flavored so you'll find that semi-freedo doesn't

34:08

come in the full range of flavors that you might with an ice cream interesting i didn't know that

34:15

okay and we have a question here from john leslie blanks um

34:20

if gelato is custard-based does that mean it has gluten in the flour

34:26

interesting point it's quite an important thing for some people isn't it yeah i'm afraid it

34:31

does um it's uh if there is flour included although a

34:37

crust custard can be made without flour um you know you can just use eggs to

34:42

thicken it but it if you're if you are somebody who is on a restricted diet

34:48

for whatever reasons it might be then i would always recommend the sorbet or the granita you can have some beautiful

34:55

things um with um from those particular flavors and of

35:02

course the other advantage with the sorbet and the granita is you can always put alcohol in them

35:07

i do a very nice gin and lime sorbet it always goes down a treat and because you're not cooking the alcohol out

35:14

it still is still quite a taste well that's that's one for all your gin fans then

35:21

now we've got the million dollar question next oh

35:26

what ingredient did anne fanshawe miss out ah

35:31

what she did what she what she missed out was when she was um when she's talking about freezing it

35:37

she hasn't put in the information about the salt so what you end up with is an orange

35:43

flavored and mace and cinnamon flavored custard um cold but not ice cream um because

35:51

somehow or another she didn't know about um that particular part of the the

35:58

the system so that's how i know it tastes good because i have actually been able to make it to that recipe

36:05

but using the technique of churning it against the against ice and salt

36:10

unfortunately anne's recipe doesn't include that and um it's so it doesn't it doesn't pull

36:16

together uh um there's a very good book actually

36:22

about her and her recipe book uh if you are interested and came out last year

36:27

simply called lady fanshawe's recipe book interesting okay

36:33

now um that answered a question of quite a number of people so

36:40

okay so we've got another question here from sukren this is an interesting one actually

36:45

did margaret thatcher have something to do with soft ice cream and the fact that there was more air in

36:52

it did you catch that i think you're froze

36:57

there a little bit alison no no no somebody said margaret thatcher i got that let me try again

37:05

did margaret thatcher have something to do with ice cream and fat and the more air in it

37:13

interesting question not that i know of i mean obviously she

37:18

had a huge influence on on milk drinking um uh in in schools but um

37:26

several people have put it in i will find that out actually because i've not heard that um but

37:33

i'm gonna write that one down yeah we can maybe answer that one afterwards for you yeah uh you know several people it is the

37:40

kind of thing that she would yeah she she was involved

37:50

when she was when she before she became a politician she was a she was a scientist scientist chemist

37:56

and i think she was involved with food at that point um i'm just trying to remember which

38:02

company it was she worked for um there certainly may be a connection i

38:08

just don't know it okay well we'll we'll take that one away i think um

38:15

somebody's saying it says she worked for mars ah interesting

38:21

okay let's move on um here's a question from jacqueline rain

38:27

what happened to wafers and polos that had a paper band to peel off

38:32

that's not something that irony i don't think maybe i'm do we do we mean

38:38

do we mean making ice cream sandwiches is that what we're talking about where's

38:43

entirely sure i don't know where the word polos comes from maybe maybe um i mean i i is that somebody

38:50

thinking about what are called milkos now that are like like um

38:55

tubes of ice cream the paper wrap around them and a stick stick up the middle not

39:00

sure let's see if jacqueline puts puts another comment in and then we can maybe come back to that one

39:06

right okay there's lots and lots here hold on a second lots of stuff coming in about

39:12

margaret thatcher's right okay here's an interesting one julie careful

39:18

no fridges how did they make the ice in the first place for the ice houses um they simply you remember you remember

39:26

we're talking about a time of um when temperatures were lower so they would be cutting ice and snow it's particularly

39:33

ice blocks out of the lake it was one of the uses for the ornamental lakes that were put into

39:40

lots and lots of stately homes by capability brand and his his uh his colleagues and it would be a job for the

39:47

winter so remember you you're um you're a wealthy landowner

39:52

you've got farm laborers who are living in your cottages on your farm they're not doing very much work during

39:58

the winter because there isn't very much work during the winter so you can employ them to cut great blocks of ice and

40:05

to stick them in your own personal ice house however there was also the alternative

40:12

method um which was it was also imported during the victorian period from norway

40:19

and it was it was shipped in and stored in great big ice houses in

40:25

london and you know and certainly in the north of england as well it was coming into hull

40:30

and there was a huge business in it a massive massive business

40:35

because the ice was used for so many different things but for your domestic

40:41

ice houses the ones that will be um close to you in that uh collection of uh two and a

40:47

half thousand that we know of somewhere out there um is

40:52

um they would that would be coming from ice that was naturally forming around

41:00

okay thank you and and sort of a related question from madeleine blake

41:05

they've got ice from ponds or lakes yeah and that's where they would have got it from right okay yeah they've had

41:13

messy pond stuff swirling around their wine bottles etc yes but that you see that they that

41:20

that was the thing about it being that you didn't put it in food you you know because not only would they just collect

41:26

it from from the um the ponds they also layered it was with them straw

41:32

in order to try and keep it colder because if you want some air between it to keep it colder so it was absolutely

41:38

full off um of rubbish

41:44

but it was all about but that's why you didn't use it in food but you'd probably chip off enough to

41:50

to be able to create something with it because most of it people didn't say

41:56

okay and then another question here that i suppose is kind of sort of related then did the victorians experiment to

42:02

try to freeze any ice cream do we they did i mean obviously the most famous

42:08

experimenter with with ice and refrigeration was benjamin franklin who of course caught a cold burying a

42:16

chicken in in snow to see how long he could prolong it for uh and uh it's alleged that that was

42:23

what killed him um but the the victorians were very

42:28

experimental with all sorts of things and it was then that came up with the most effective ice cream churn

42:34

but it still takes time you see they the best effective ice cream churner is based on the butter

42:41

churn so it's the same things you've got some paddles inside it and it sits inside them like the images

42:48

that i showed you it sits inside like like a a barrel you fill that full of ice and salt you put your

42:55

your churn in the middle of it and you turn it round um there were some experiments with

43:00

steam-powered ones but steam and ice don't really mix very well there is a patent out there for

43:08

a very very early electronic one but um that didn't work either because they

43:15

were still having a problem with electro with the idea of heat and so

43:21

the churning method until they could actually find a way of creating refrigeration

43:28

by powering it with electricity which was you know much much later didn't actually really work

43:34

the penny lick men were doing it with a churn so it was quite quite a time-consuming

43:40

business but it was quite profitable okay uh what else do we have questions wise

43:48

now here's a practical one i'm not sure with this one this is from jane parker um the last ice

43:56

cream i bought was whipped away by seagull any tips for being able to enjoy corn

44:01

outside without this happening um under an umbrella maybe

44:08

you know in in closed area i've never had another

44:17

i think you're frozen again there early now please

44:24

[Music] sally i think you froze there again could you just say that again we didn't

44:31

quite get the answer oh i can still hear you so you still talk to me yeah

44:37

um hello hi we we didn't hear the answer to that last question because i think you have

44:42

oh i'm so sorry um i did suggest an umbrella um

44:50

okay but um i i i think that uh seagulls are an uh

44:56

seaside-wide problem and i'm not i think if they want it they're gonna take it

45:01

and so sorry that the ice cream was lost um

45:06

okay what else do we have lots of comments about margaret thatcher being okay

45:14

uh yeah so does that mean we've got to the bottom of that now not sure i think it was aerated cream as

45:21

a scientist in tubes okay williams um and then we've got mars

45:28

um chemist from mars um okay

45:34

now what else do we have keep sending your questions and we've got loads of comments about margaret thatcher

45:41

um

45:46

right coming back to the question that we were talking about earlier about the the polos and the the the

45:54

paper seal too jacqueline is saying polo was made by lions i believe small and circular with

46:01

a paper band around it wonderful maybe a particular

46:08

i don't know i'm looking them up

46:13

i've got a really into a really good comment from gary richards zoom freezing very appropriate for us

46:20

it is rather isn't it yeah it's a pity that we don't get a sweet treat at the end of it

46:26

yes it's just one of those stressful things i think that has us got through most of

46:33

the direct questions i don't know where they'd lie the particular comments that have come through ali that you maybe

46:39

wanted to have a look at um [Music]

46:44

let's see i noticed somebody was talking about um ice cream blocks wrapped in newspaper

46:51

that used to be my sunday job my um uh aunt when we were down visiting

46:59

my um paternal relatives that it was the job of us kids to go

47:04

down to the corner shop and go and buy ice cream it was always wrapped in newspaper to go with the apple pie

47:10

that was made as part of sunday lunch and i think this particular corner shop opened on sunday mornings

47:17

for three things for people to get milk for people to buy newspapers people to buy

47:23

yeah ice cream when there's regular things it's one of those things of childhood

47:28

yeah yeah now actually here's a question here for you

47:35

what's your favorite flavor of ice cream we can't let you go without asking that oh that's a very that is a good question

47:41

um i'm i'm i'm i like i think i like ice creams with things in

47:47

it and my personal favorite um which i have to make myself is a brown

47:53

bread ice cream which is a victorian recipe um so it's it you you toast brown bread and

48:01

you turn it into crumbs and then you mix it into into your custard and it produces quite a nice crunchy

48:09

uh ice cream with some real texture in it the base is straightforward vanilla

48:14

if i'm out and about then i'm going to be looking for um either

48:22

as i say something with nuts in it usually something hazelnutty um

48:27

or possibly i i really do like a lemon sorbet because i do like a really sharp taste

48:33

yeah right what about you fiona come on what's your favorite

48:39

all of them no um personally i've kind of got two

48:45

firstly mint choc chip and secondly coconut

48:50

oh okay not necessarily together no no i can see that

48:56

coconut's an unusual one that must be quite hard to find yeah and deborah miller's just just actually said that

49:02

you've just brought back a memory for her with brown bread ice cream so there you go

49:08

and another question here about this um gin and lime ice cream that you were talking

49:15

about are you able to give anybody any kind of hints and tips as to how to do that

49:22

right so it's a gin and lime sorbet because you can't you can't put you

49:28

i'm putting alcohol in the ice cream custard will work but it will you have to be really careful because it will split

49:34

um so what you're doing is you are creating um a combination of squeeze limes

49:43

of sugar syrup and um a good measure of gin if you want

49:49

to you can put a tin of um tonic in there as well and you get slightly fizzy quality with it as well

49:55

um i don't because i think it's enough so cheese and then you freeze it um with sorbet

50:02

what you need to do is take it out every couple of hours and and mix it up with a fork you don't need an ice cream maker

50:07

for it um stick it back in the um in the freezer leave it for a couple of hours

50:13

it will take about eight hours in all um

50:19

to to to do it but it's very well worth if you make a decent sized tub then it'll keep going for a while because you can't eat lots of it but it is

50:28

very nice to give people on a you know we quite often use it when we're having a barbecue

50:34

so give people a gin and tonic um a gin and lime sorbet whilst they're waiting

50:39

for the meat to cook yeah i've always thought the idea of getting tonic ice lollies would be amazing

50:47

not try turning into a zombies um okay now

50:54

oh helen garrett's saying that dalia smith apparently has a very good gin and tonic sorbet recipe in one of her boots

51:00

she she does yeah she does um just another question that's actually

51:06

come in um from guy richards have you found any sweetener than that works

51:12

because quite quite frustrating if you were say diabetic or something like that where you're trying to you know obviously

51:18

moderate the amount of sugar yeah that's a good question i don't really i don't really have an answer for it as such

51:25

because i think in my experience um i mean my husband is type 2 diabetic as well

51:32

um it's to do with what you are what you your taste is like

51:38

you know there are certain sweetness that tastes bitter to some people and that other people can get away with so

51:43

it might well be a bit of experimentation i'm afraid guy that you might not have found the one that works for you yet

51:49

because there are lots and lots to choose from okay um

51:55

now one final question i think and what i'll do is there's lots and lots of good comments here what i'll do is make sure

52:01

that you get to see those uh tomorrow alex i'm sure thank you to read them all um question from

52:09

andrew nottman now you may have answered this partly right at the start of the lecture

52:15

do all ice creams have dairy milk or cream in them now i know sorbet doesn't

52:21

but not these days um you will find that there are quite a lot

52:27

of when a lot of them that are using substitutes and vegeta vegetable substitutes

52:33

you can get vegetarian ice cream because you can produce

52:38

something that is a very akin to milk in its structure so it's always worth checking you will

52:45

see the see on the on the packaging whether it will tell you whether or not it's vegetarian a lot of

52:52

the ice cream that you buy from ice cream vendors is in actual fact uh

52:58

vegetarian because they are they're saving money by using plant-based products

53:05

in water interesting okay folks i think that's probably us

53:11

for today i hope you all enjoyed that like last week i feel quite hungry again

53:18

somebody put these they're quite glad that they they've got some ice cream in their freezer yeah we were baking scones

53:23

last week so i was my stomach rumbling by the end of that one so i hope everybody enjoyed that i think we got

53:29

through most of your questions if not all of them thanks very much um to you ali that was really really interesting

53:35

welcome it was a pleasure um so what i'll do now is i'm gonna stop recording now um

Lecture

The perfect scone

The delightful scone has graced afternoon tea plates for years. Humble in appearance, yet beautiful in its simplicity, the scone is a pre-requisite of any high tea.

If you’ve never tried making them before, or have and they haven’t turned out as planned, join Karen in this lecture to discover how to make the perfect scone with helpful hints and tips along the way. With a little luck, you will end up with some amazing scones which are moist and soft inside, crumbly on the edges, and buttery, flaky and delicious! A great way to mark Afternoon Tea Week! (10–15 August).

Video transcript

0:00

a bit croaky today and also i have a dog so it's a jump box i do apologize in

0:06

advance but we are working from home so it hasn't happened

0:12

so yeah so we'll get started um so just a couple of kind of housekeeping points um i know

0:19

you're all on mute and there's the chat function there if you want to ask any questions um i'll try and go slow if you're baking

0:26

along with us i don't want to kind of rush anybody um but yeah um we'll wash my hands first if you're

0:32

working along with us um and i'll just go and do that now um while we're while we'll wait for the chat to kind of load

0:40

up

0:53

my hands are washed um i think you know we used to do this you know

0:58

regardless didn't we but now boris is on the case we kind of do it a bit more often don't we so

1:05

we've just got used to it so wash our hands after everything we do we've been in the shops and everything

1:11

like that so yeah so i don't know whether you can tell i'm from newcastle so i'm up in the

1:16

in the north east of england um and it's absolute gorgeous date day it's been really nice and that's

1:23

probably why my hair feed was kind of playing up again because it's lovely and sunny

1:30

right let's get started so i'm gonna we're not gonna concentrate on mate we're gonna concentrate on what we're

1:37

making so i'm gonna flip my camera over so let me just do that now for you

1:43

so let me just bring my camera around so healthy scones

1:48

um this is this is my kind of try

1:54

feel safe recipe it doesn't go wrong

1:59

there's always there's always a first but let's hope it'll be fine um i've used it for years it's my mum's recipe

2:06

as well so it's kind of been passed down the generations probably grown mods as well um so yeah so this is the one that

2:12

i use all the time so what we're going to start off we're going to start off with our dry ingredients if anyone's

2:17

baking along with me today so we need some of our flour so this is

2:22

our self-raising flour into a bowl and that's 225 grams of self-raising

2:29

flour into our bowl and to that we're going to add in some of our baking powder

2:38

so we just want half a teaspoon of bacon powder and that goes into there

2:47

now we're also while you if you're open about getting your ingredients you might want to get the oven on as well um some

2:54

ovens take a little bit less time to heat up um but we'll probably it's probably going to take us about five or

3:00

ten minutes to get the ingredients kind of where we need them to be so if the oven takes a little bit longer get it on

3:05

now um it's 200 degrees for a fan assisted electric oven or gas

3:13

lock full if you pop on your oven on so you know how your ovens work um you know

3:19

you you decide when you need to pop it on um my oven is quite good um i've got

3:25

a little bit of a heat spot at the back of the oven and i try and avoid if i'm

3:30

putting in any any kind of individual bakes but if i'm doing a cake it just can't be helped i'll just kind

3:36

of rotate it and make sure that i know where that heat spot is but if anyone has a problem

3:42

with their ovens an oven thermometer is a really really handy thing to have

3:49

um and just kind of don't put it in the middle move it around the oven and that

3:54

just helps you find where you or where the high spot is in your oven hey

4:01

karen can i jump in for a little second just a quick practical question somebody's asking

4:08

the recipe makes how many scones it makes seven

4:13

and that is going on a two inch cushion which is that one there and this is the

4:19

cutter that i'm using so if you make them a bit bigger you might get about three or four if you're making them a

4:24

little dinky ones and you might get about 10 or 12.

4:30

it depends on the color so this is the one i'm using today which

4:36

has got like nice fitted edges on so just it does help um to get the air

4:42

through them when they're when they've got the fluted edges but it's totally up to you

4:51

hopefully that's uh that's all good it's hard to say that's the problem

4:58

you know it's really hard to say so i'm just going to stir that bacon powder in and get it combined into the

5:05

flour and then what we're going to do we're going to add in our march so we're going to rub this in just with our

5:11

fingers so we need our margarine so you could use butter if you wanted to

5:19

um but we're making healthy ones today so the healthier the scones the better

5:24

so my dream is a little bit a little bit better

5:29

for you so i'm just going to pop in 50 grams

5:51

the shops um i've got no preference um to be honest i do tend to use butter

5:57

but you know we're doing healthy we're gonna be very healthy today so i'm just gonna drop that down move my scales

6:04

out away and we're going to rub it in so what i do i just kind of cover

6:10

all of that margarine in the flour

6:16

and then just start suffering all little pieces and this just makes it

6:23

easy

6:30

so by all means if you want to do it with with the back of a spoon

6:36

or a full um then that's totally fine but to be honest i don't mind getting my

6:41

my hands a bit a bit sticky and messy we're just going to rub it in

6:48

it's not too much to rub in so we're just going to quickly rub it in so yeah so it's afternoon tea week this week

6:57

so hopefully this could just be part of an afternoon tea celebration at the

7:03

night you might have with your family and friends now that we can all meet up together or compare these scones with uh with the

7:09

ones that you buy in the shops or the ones that you get in the in the fancy little vintage tea room around the

7:14

corner yeah

7:20

rub it in

7:28

oh are we all right have you lost mia no you're all right yeah no we had a slight issue there

7:33

shading but it's sorted now okay it's good i just me screen just

7:40

flickers so you just want it to be kind of fine

7:48

breadcrumbs the texture will change from being really fine powdered flour

7:56

to a bit more of a bread crumb texture like a really really fine bread crumb texture

8:09

so that's me good and the only downside is i'm just gonna

8:14

have to quickly wash my hands get all of all the ingredients off your hands as

8:19

much as you can i'll just quickly wash my hands

8:35

and i'm going to add in our salt and our sugar so for your sugar

8:43

because we're going healthy you can either use normal granulated sugar which is totally fine

8:53

or you can use this one um you can pick this up in tesco's asta any

8:59

of the biggest supermarkets it's half spoon so it's granulated sugar with sweetener

9:05

included so it's a little bit better um but for you for your health

9:10

um so you could use that one if you wanted to um it's readily available um

9:16

so it's something you know if you could if you want to consider it then that's fine if not you can just use normal

9:22

granulated sugar and we're just putting out

9:28

25 grams of our sugar in

9:35

sprinkle it in

9:43

and then we're going to put some salt in our salt is the thing that you decide um i have put

9:50

a pinch and some people's pinches are a little bit bigger than other people's pinches so this is totally up to you

9:58

this is your decision um i love salt i've got this thing i get

10:03

tall enough to put too much salt in everything um put a few grinds of salt in there

10:11

and then we will give it another stir and get that combined

10:16

i know it's wrong for us and i'll probably regret it when i get a little bit older

10:22

i'm living for the moment so that's all combined so that's all of

10:28

our dry ingredients in there so we've got our flour our baked powder

10:36

our sugar and our salt in there and then what we're going to do next is we are

10:41

going to add in our wet ingredients so this is going to

10:46

be our milk and our egg so the way we do it is

10:52

i'm going to keep the scales there but i've got a measuring jug

10:58

and we need our egg so we'll just leave one egg

11:11

and then i've popped on the ingredients i've popped on 125

11:18

milliliters of semi skim milk

11:23

so you can use you can use skim milk if you prefer to

11:29

you can use semi-skimmed you can use full back obviously um the more more fat content and the less

11:36

healthy so you've got a way of the difference um but what it what it

11:42

depends on is how much egg because all eggs are a little bit different some are quite small some

11:48

are medium some are large so we're going to measure it up to

11:53

150 milliliters on our on our measuring jug or on our scales

12:00

i'm just going to grab the milk out

12:08

kept it in the fridge because it's quite a warm day today

12:20

so we are going to just i'm going to just pour it in see where we get to

12:30

i think we're about there just touch more you can always add a little bit more or

12:36

a little bit you know you can you don't have to add this much in and we are going to use a little bit for

12:42

the glaze on the top as well so yeah

13:06

together

13:14

so i was gonna kind of ask a few questions along the way so i don't know whether if fiona's um fiona's there

13:22

um i was going to ask if anyone knows where

13:27

the after afternoon tea came from who invented it does anyone know or was that too much of an axing

13:34

question for a thursday afternoon interesting question let's see what comments we get enough somebody will

13:40

know no no cheating so no googling not asking alexa

13:48

because that's far too easy

13:54

so i'm just gonna grab a knife as well so we're just gonna so this is called cutting in so when we

14:00

add our wet ingredients to our dry ingredients we want to kind of cut them in so we're going to slice them up

14:08

like that we've got one comment that's coming about your question

14:14

about where the afternoon tree came from queen victoria and that's coming in from

14:19

susan scott and jeanette i can't see the full name jeanette mckinnon

14:26

are they right oh so that's two two for queen victoria

14:31

oh okay i'm not gonna say i'm not going to say yet and one for the duchess of devonshire

14:41

oh right yeah interesting and also the duchess of bedford

14:49

right here we're going around the country

14:54

we're traveling and another comment here from helen garrett and ladies of leisure who

15:00

couldn't wait for a late dinner that's it yeah

15:06

exactly that's that's me that would be me in victorian times i would i would be

15:11

starving by three o'clock if i had to wait until eight o'clock for my team oh yeah the the biscuit cupboard would be

15:18

open [Laughter] yeah so um

15:24

whoever said um really good answers thanks everyone um whoever said the duchess of bedford

15:32

they're they're right they get surprised

15:37

those of you who said that then well done yeah but yeah that's that's kind of what it

15:44

was it was all about um ladies who couldn't cope they couldn't

15:50

they couldn't go from lunch um to tea well to dinner without um

15:56

having something in between so the duchess of bedford she um

16:02

she um she decided that she was just going to

16:08

have a pot of tea and like a like a sandwich just bread kind

16:14

of sandwich and then she invited our friends over and they were like oh this is nice you

16:20

know and that's how it kind of escalated from there so yeah so she she so she um

16:26

she decided that that was going to be a thing so we've got what we've got a lot of thank you for

16:32

we wouldn't be here today if we won't have an afternoon tea week

16:38

so yeah excellent all right so we're going to add we're going to add this in

16:44

so a little bit at a time don't throw it in all at once we're just going to add a little bit of a drizzle

16:51

and then we're just going to cut through it fold it in

16:58

until the mixture's not wet but sticky so but it needs to

17:04

kind of hold its shape together so it should all combine

17:09

into water so keep going

17:15

until it's all nicely combined so make sure it's nice and combined before you add your next

17:22

lot of liquid in so if you add too much you can always add a little bit more flour it would be

17:27

absolutely fine um

17:42

starting to get there bit more

17:52

if you use all your liquid up then it's fine you can just top it up with a little bit more milk

18:06

good good chop together

18:11

so yeah we've had we've had quite a good good success with our bacon courses online uh we've done

18:18

i've pretty much done them ever since um lockdown started last year so we've

18:24

done a few different courses with um kind of traditional bacon and pies and

18:31

pasties and sausage rolls and things like that we've also

18:36

just finished we just finished a couple of weeks ago we did some biscuit bacon

18:43

so we did um custard creams and corbin biscuits

18:50

and we did twixes and things like that so uh we we

18:56

we kind of do we do pretty much everything and anything and i do take requests as well so it's just something

19:02

that you that you're quite fancy having to go out then uh we'll we'll all have about it together and see how it turns

19:08

out so yeah so you can see it's it's it's a little bit sticky on my fingers

19:19

it's all holding its shape there so it's nice and a ball and i'm just going to

19:25

leave it there for two seconds let's just get a little bit more flour

19:31

so i've got a tiny little bit of milk egg wash there so that's going to do for my glaze on the top

19:39

and what we're going to do we're just going to grab a little bit of flour

19:46

and we're just going to pop some flour down so it doesn't stick to the surface when

19:52

we turn it out make sure you get all of your little scraps out the ball

19:58

nothing goes to waste

20:07

flip it all over so okay i don't know if anyone's made scones before

20:13

um and they haven't had a success or if they haven't turned out quite as you

20:18

expected them to be um sometimes it's the rolling out some people use a rolling pin

20:24

and it doesn't quite quite work you want to keep the air

20:31

in so when you're pushing and rolling the rolling pins kind of squashing everything down and the air's coming out

20:37

a bit you're squashing all the flour and everything all of your nice ingredients so what you want to do you just want to

20:43

pat it that's all you really want to do is cut it down and that's pretty much it you know don't

20:49

kind of worry about the shape or uh where it's going if it's

20:54

you know if you're keeping it around then that's fine um but don't worry about where it's going as long as you're not ruling it

21:01

out stretching it too much um it's the gluten what you that you're kind of thinking

21:06

about so it's the gluten in the in the in the flour um that you that you want to

21:13

kind of save and survive and that's what's going to help when they're going to bake as well so

21:20

that that's that's the key for your scones and what you want is your cutting

21:28

and so i think i said let's say two inches i'm just going to double check

21:34

measure

21:42

yeah so two inches um what's that about 55

21:48

uh yeah five five and a half centimeters yeah so two inches

21:54

but you cut this so this will probably make about seven and what you want also

22:01

is you want your bacon tray

22:07

either wrist and greased bacon tray so pop a little bit of your margarine on there

22:13

and stop it from sticking or you can pop um some baker parchment or some baking

22:20

paper down there to stop it from sticking or i use one of these silicon mats last

22:26

these these just save my life honestly they're so lovely because it sticks to them they're just wipe clean um i don't

22:33

you know i put a baking tray underneath just to keep it sturdy because these are quite flexible

22:38

but they do they work really really well they don't really show my camera too much but yeah they're really well um and

22:44

these are from little are just really cheap if you're ever in little and you you see

22:51

them in the middle and uh and you know really really good quite clean and job's good so just grab that by hand and then

23:00

we can start cutting out our scones and then we can pop them on to our vehicle

23:08

so in your flower that you've got down you

23:14

can pop it around the sides as well if you think that your cut is going to be a bit sticky if it's a really old one that

23:20

you've been using for years and it's going to be okay and you're just going to press down

23:27

and don't kind of put like force them down you know just keep them

23:32

keep them quite you know quite high because if you're pushing then you're just forcing them down

23:41

so that's one

23:49

give them a gentle tap sit and it just falls out

23:58

and then if you feel that it's stuck the stick just run your fingers around the cutter

24:03

and if you feel it start to stick and just put a little bit more flour on

24:09

tap it out and cut them out again just fall down

24:15

so yeah so out the the healthy bacon course um that starts i think it's

24:22

i think it's the 13th of september and we're running all the way through

24:28

until christmas for that one so we'll do some um kind of themed um bacon as well so we might do some

24:35

halloween and some christmas and things like that so yeah

24:40

we'll do a few different different things let's see i i like to do requests as well so if anyone's got

24:46

anything that you would like quite like to make but haven't tried or haven't haven't felt brave enough to have a gosh

24:53

and now's the time to try oh

25:02

hi karen can i jump in for a little second here there we go we've had a few comments and um what about sultanas

25:09

yeah absolutely yeah you can pop anything in at all um if you want to put your sultanas in and put them in before

25:16

you roll them out and you can put in um essences um cherries absolutely anything

25:24

you want at all it's totally up to you um you've got oh you've got so many

25:29

options for it for your flavorings um you know you can you can pretty much do anything at all and you can or just keep

25:36

them plain so we're going super healthy with these ones so they're just straight plain scones

25:42

um nothing nothing too fancy or too complicated but yeah absolutely you can

25:48

you can pop your pop your fruit in your cherries your flavorings just before that before you

25:54

kind of um start rolling and start kind of pressing them out and cutting them out

26:00

would that include cheese as well if you were going to make make some savory sponge yes so if you choose guns and you would

26:07

obviously admit your um your sugar and that would be um you know just just remove the sugar top

26:14

it up with a little bit more flour and you can just grate some of your free favorite cheese and pop that in um but

26:22

cheese is the soul fattening [Music]

26:28

but really delicious so yeah

26:34

okay i hope that was helpful for everybody so i'll i'll leave you to it again kim thank you yeah so yeah so

26:41

honestly so many different flavors um you can pop in anything you want at all

26:46

it's totally fine um you go for it whenever whatever you decide so you so we've got seven

26:54

and we've got a tiny one and that's the tiny one's usually for the chef as the taster

27:02

but yeah honestly you can do you can do pretty much anything you do classic cherries

27:07

um you can put some essence in so if you if you're quite fancy um some like lemon

27:13

scones and you can pop some lemon essence in um or you can you know

27:19

you can do vanilla flavoring if you want to add a little bit just a little bit of flavor you don't want to keep them plain

27:27

um and then you can decide you know what you want to do with the plain ones obviously you're

27:32

taking out the sultanas so that's just making it even more healthy because

27:38

there is there is a lot of a lot of um fat content in your

27:44

in your dried fruit um so yeah so you can pretty much do

27:49

the take so well you've got so many different options

27:55

so go for it experiment try try some different flavors

28:03

so that's the glaze all used as i said nothing nothing left over everything's

28:08

everything's gone so we've got seven's guns and we're

28:14

gonna pop them in the oven and it should take about 10-12 minutes um so if my oven is on 200 it's an

28:22

electric fan i'm just going to pop the timer on

28:39

you know you've got going back to kind of flavors and things um you can you can really do

28:46

um anything you want steam them as well so if you you know if you're doing valentine's gonna heart cut them and

28:52

make them heart shaped um if you're doing you know christmassy ones you could add some cinnamon or some

28:59

mixed spice um and you could even what i what i tend to do because i'm a cake maker

29:06

um i tend to soak any of my fruit for for my cakes my fruitcakes my

29:12

christmas cakes so i'm so brandy for a few days before i make the cake

29:17

and you could do that with your scones as well so pop you know your sultanas or your currants or

29:24

whatever you putting in pop them in a little bit of brandy cherry brandy um

29:29

you know just you know something something quite tasty and then leave them for a few days give them a stir

29:35

every day get you know get all of the all the juices combined and then you

29:40

know you've got some nice kind of christmassy christmasy scones with a little bit of a little bit of alcohol in

29:46

as well all right tidy up time i'm just going to move this and then we

29:52

can make some of our um strawberry compote so it's not technically jam but kind of

30:01

but if you wanted to make jam to go with them then that's totally fine um and speaking of jam

30:08

i'll ask a few in a real game and see what the comments come in on this one because there's probably quite a debate

30:15

this is probably the one the one thing that kind of you know divides the crowd is it jam and then cream on your scone

30:24

or is it cream and then jam on your skin because it's right shoot everybody shoot now and we'll see

30:31

what everybody says for me jam first and then cream

30:38

do you is that what you me too yeah me too i know it is it's um hello

30:44

and that's how i that's how i make my cakes as well so i suppose it's just the way i've always done it but yeah

30:50

it's very controversial we've had this discussion in class before and it's oh there's been some tension

30:56

right the the comments are piling in the general the consensus seems to be jammed

31:03

first oh and we have had a couple which is jam or cream first then jam then more cream

31:11

so that's just been crazy isn't it

31:19

so there we have it excellent good i know general consensus excellent oh well that's good everyone i

31:25

know well yeah it does it it depends on on the well the counties doesn't it

31:31

devon and corn will have this big kind of um like friction between the two

31:37

the two counties so it's like one of them has to have it one way and one of them has to have another way so

31:43

yeah it's a divide it definitely divides the crowd so it's always a it's always a good

31:49

stumbling point well it seems to be the perennial question about scones doesn't it well

31:54

exactly that's it i know i know i wouldn't have we've got a i don't know whether if

32:00

anyone has heard of them we've got betty's tea rooms up in the north east uh we've got them

32:06

in york and harrogate um and a few other places and they do a really lovely

32:13

afternoon tea um i've never been so i don't know but i wonder how they do it i wonder if

32:18

they've got their their own etiquette way of doing this um yeah we've had one comment and easy

32:24

to resolve have a scone cut it in half and do one each way my answer to that

32:29

is exactly so if you're making them today let's do that let's all try

32:35

to give fiona some feedback i feel hungry now to be quite honest

32:41

well there's nearly tea time but i when i was it was

32:46

was it about months ago when winston was on it was about it was june or july when

32:52

wimbledon was going on and um somebody had said to me

32:57

um wimbledon do an afternoon tea delivery pack so the kind of send it out

33:04

and i was like oh that's a really good idea you know so you've got your wimbledon theme little hamper that comes

33:11

with like the the paper plates and and all of the napkins and everything with wimbledon so it's quite a nice little

33:17

keepsake but um it's 65 pound per person

33:22

[Laughter] [Music] [Laughter]

33:32

yeah i think i think we'll stick to homemade homemade's always best doesn't it

33:38

i'm just going to quickly wash my hands and then we'll get on with the cockpot

33:54

if anyone's making along and they'll have some nice guns for the tea as well so that's always

34:08

i'm not i'm not too distracted she and i told me that there was the subtitles on the on the bottom and she said i could

34:13

turn them off but it i think it's quite interesting to see what it looks like it's quite amusing tonight i have to say

34:21

i hope everybody else is enjoying it

34:27

[Laughter]

34:32

i just

34:44

right we'll flip that over the only downside is um

34:51

bacon in the kitchen and having the camera and the computer

34:56

next to us um the computer tends to get a little bit dusty with all the flour and sugar so i don't get wrong with the

35:03

husband and we're getting these completely nice and just in this flour

35:11

all right so we are going to make a little bit of um strawberry compost so

35:18

just some fresh strawberries you could use raspberries blueberries you can pretty much use any

35:24

any fruits that you want on i was going to say go and pick some blackberries you know we've

35:29

we were walking the dog yesterday and we've seen loads of blackberries already and it's super early for blackberries um

35:36

but yeah they were already already out and four so get some blackberries picked and we can

35:42

make some nice blackberry jam that would be lovely um but alternatively pop into the

35:47

supermarket and you can get some get a nice fruit

35:56

a little bit more sugar so this is just a taste really um this is totally up to

36:02

you however you however you decide to have it is absolutely fine

36:07

um you can just have it like that and mash them down

36:12

and then have your cream on the top or underneath whichever way we've decided to have one

36:19

or give this one a little bit if it's something it's a little bit tart it kind of gets a little bit

36:27

so if you just put it give it a bit of a sprinkle on the top or use your spoon

36:33

and do a couple of spoonfuls of sugar you can use your heart and half as well

36:39

and just give them a mash down

36:44

i'm just giving them a good press together you could pop them in the microwave or over the hub

36:50

just to loosen them down a little bit more if you wanted to but giving them a mash is pretty much all they need

36:56

and you don't need to do too much more with them

37:03

i know some people add a little bit of some some vinegar to them as well they give them a little bit more sharpness so

37:11

have a play around with your tastes

37:16

and that's pretty much it you know nice big chunks of strawberry still so you've still got a few little

37:22

little lumps to eat but you've got a nice juice coming out with that as well that you can spread

37:28

and that's pretty much all you do with those ones

37:34

and i also wanted to show you um this is something that i use quite often

37:40

so sometimes what i do with my scones i'll put a little bit of a drizzle of ice and

37:46

sugar over the top so i know some people sprinkle some icing sugar over the top just to

37:52

give it a light dusting but sometimes i'll i'll mix icing sugar with a little drop of water and make it make it into a

37:59

liquid and then kind of glaze it over the top which is lovely um and

38:04

you can

38:12

because the company could get loads of loads of different flavors so you've got raspberry ripple there

38:18

i've got lemon drizzle so if you wanted to make lemon drizzle scones um they're absolutely delicious yeah you can get

38:25

some in the supermarkets i know sainsbury's style salted caramel

38:30

flavor oh there's the timer

38:35

let's have a look so that was 10 minutes so i would say probably a little bit

38:41

longer

38:47

[Music]

38:56

yeah so lovely different flavors as i said since we sell their own make and this is sugar

39:02

and crumbs and you can get it in hobbycraft and lakeland sell it as well um but you can buy it online but you can

39:08

get so many different flavors it's absolutely delicious and just as it is

39:14

um as like a sprinkle over chops of cakes um or if you wanted to add um you

39:19

know added butter creams or anything like that it really works really really well cheesecakes are

39:26

really nice as well and alternatively if you just wanted to use just your box

39:32

you know your ordinary icing sugar if you wanted to make it into a lemon drizzle and just you you're squeezing

39:38

lemon it's really good instead of water and that just turns it into a lemon a

39:43

lemon kind of flavor nice and sugar as well so there's loads of different options for you

39:48

spike for choice to deal with your different uh your different choices okay

39:56

your flavors it's absolutely gorgeous it's still versatile marinara

40:04

will work with any flavor all right how's everyone doing i hope

40:11

we'll keep checking on my and what ovens oh we got a lot of

40:17

them so yeah so if anyone's got any hints and tips um that they need any guidance for

40:23

i'm here you know ask away any questions and we've got a couple of minutes left on retirement so

40:30

we'll just keep an eye on that as well want me to start asking some of the questions now um

40:39

and we've had a couple of people that are asking about um gluten-free ingredients that you

40:45

might substitute in the recipe yeah yeah go for it um obviously

40:51

if you if you are gluten gluten free then um you know and you've just transitioned over or you

40:57

know if you you know you will taste the difference but for those of you who have been gluten-free all in a lifetime you'll not know what's the difference

41:04

but i personally i notice the difference so you can totally tell um but yeah just

41:09

you know just your gluten-free self-raising flour is fine and then your xanthan gum um as your baking powder is

41:15

absolutely fine and it'll work pretty much the same you don't have to substitute kind of you know two for one

41:23

ratio it's just you know just exactly the same ingredients you're just replacing them with the gluten-free options

41:30

okay great and with another question about we know we we added some salt and yeah okay

41:36

and somebody i can't remember who it was now um let me scroll up and i'll tell you in a second and it was about the

41:43

margarine that you were using as well was that unsalted or did that have

41:48

[Laughter]

41:53

oh i am terrible so yeah normally to be fair that one was on offer and so that's why i bought it but

41:59

yeah normally i don't i normally buy unsalted margarine and but i do buy slightly salted butter so yeah you have

42:06

to yeah i i have to get i do get chilled over so yeah personal taste personal preference you decide if you're using

42:14

salted then just don't put yourself in okay brilliant now we had another question uh while

42:21

we're waiting for our scones to bake

42:26

now let me just find it for lots and lots of comments today now this is a a question from jane she's

42:34

saying she uses her hands for all the mixing should you avoid doing that and as she noticed you were using a kind of

42:41

like a spatula i suppose to do that did that do your hands make the mixture too warm or does it not work

42:48

no not well it's personal preference you know absolutely if you're used to doing that

42:55

if you're used to using your hands then then go for it there's no there's no difference maybe in the

43:01

summer your hands will be a little bit warmer but honestly um if if it works

43:08

stick with what works that's what i always say so

43:19

okay we'll come back to some questions in a little while once we're finished off so that's our scone so you can see

43:26

we've got a little bit of a crispy bottom no sucky bottoms today we've got some crispy

43:33

bottoms and we've got the little one for the chef that's fine to taste so if you just kind

43:39

of open them up it should be nice and light and fluffy um you've got nuts you've got

43:45

you should have smell-o-vision but you've got steam steamer vision steams with the camera

43:52

so yeah so there isn't a little bit a little bit they've got that they should have that

43:58

kind of telltale kind of line through the center as well that's what you're looking for when they're when they're

44:03

done um so that's kind of the key point where you should just be able to break them open you shouldn't have to slice

44:09

them they should just break open and uh and fall and fall apart so you've got

44:14

that nice line so yeah and they should be quite light when you pick them up that's what you're looking for it should

44:20

be quite nice and light it shouldn't be too dense or too heavy it should be quite nice and light so if you just want

44:26

to leave them like that you can add a little bit of icing sugar over the top and this is my

44:32

icing sugar wand so just sprinkle sprinkle some icing sugar over

44:37

and that just just

44:42

and you can just eat them like that you put your jam and cream in my husband likes butter

44:48

and i mean that's just sacrilege that you've got to have some sort of jam and cream in haven't you put this just no no

44:56

we'll just not go there with the bullet so yeah fiona if you if you want to ask

45:01

any more more questions yeah let's carry on because we've got about 10 minutes or so so let's just crack on um

45:09

now let's see ann and he was asking about this is coming back to additional ingredients that you could put in and

45:15

cheese and that kind of thing yeah black trickle yeah absolutely yeah i mean um black

45:22

tricolor probably make it quite dense so it'll be quite quite a heavy scone um

45:29

so i would probably say go on the side of caution with that one but yeah it'll it'll be it'll be quite tasty

45:36

nice okay there we go one um now this is a question from val

45:42

and for those that have egg allergies can you make these without the eggs yeah

45:49

absolutely yeah just make them with the milk then that's absolutely fine no problem at all just just leave out the

45:55

egg so you wouldn't replace the egg with something else then no no not at all i

46:00

mean it's just one egg so it's not going to make a massive amount of difference no absolutely

46:06

and um now what else do we have yes we've got another question here about once you've when you roll them out

46:12

before you put them in the oven roughly how thick are they um

46:18

good question so they're probably um they were

46:24

probably kind of halfway up my curtain so i would probably say

46:31

maybe definitely not an inch maybe three quarters of an inch i would say

46:37

so that is about two centimeters would say about

46:43

two centimeters yeah and they've risen and they've got let's have a measure of

46:49

this one they've probably doubled in size

46:58

fantastic now we've got another question here from deborah um millard she's asking about

47:05

half spoons now if i remember rightly we were talking about half spoons in the recipe yeah

47:12

um deborah's asking do you still use the same quantities and recipes or half of

47:17

it she's not quite clear i don't know if you can eat that a little bit the half spoon of sugar that watches

47:24

yeah yeah i think so yeah so so deborah if it's this one and it's just exactly

47:30

the same quantity so it's just it's just what this is doing it's just replacing

47:35

some of the sugar so it's half half granulated and half sweetener so it's

47:41

just replacing um the sugar for you but it's exactly the same quantity in the recipe so you're just using the same um

47:48

in your recipe yeah lovely thanks for confirming that right let me just scroll down to see what else

47:55

we have we've got loads and loads of comments sending these to these to you tomorrow

48:02

lots of people like to have butter yeah yeah well i'll tell my husband he's

48:07

not alone um what about using buttermilk

48:14

yeah buttermilk yep absolutely or if you if you you know if your milk's on the

48:19

turn as we say up in the northeast if it's going a bit sour use that yep it's a really really good

48:27

angry sconce it's a lovely it just it just adds that lovely little taste to it

48:32

okay well i think that's just about all the questions so far i wonder how anybody that's that's that's baked their

48:38

scones how have they turned out yeah let's let's have your comments on that

48:44

and we'll we'll have a look at those

48:54

we've got a little comment from kate here these scones look and taste delicious thank you karen i'm about to make another batch of bluetooth

49:01

so there you go oh you know that's the thing isn't it i know you're kind of disappointed when

49:06

you when you got sick [Laughter] you're like oh i could have done with a few more

49:11

but they do what i do see as well the freeze um so you can freeze them so if you wanted to

49:18

kind of do a little bit of a batch cook um if you've got kind of you know friends and relatives coming around

49:24

and you don't want to make them on the day there's too much pressure you know bake them let them cool down so just

49:29

leave them for a couple of hours let them cool pop them in a grip sealed bag um not

49:35

cling film cling film is porous so the air gets into the cling film and dries

49:40

them out so it's better to put them in a little grip sealed bag and then pop them in the

49:46

fridge in the freezer and they'll be good for it for about a month or so

49:51

um but to be honest if you're going to eat them now they'll probably keep for about two or three days um in the fridge

49:57

or if you just want to put them on the on the sides of the bench then that's absolutely fine as well okay we've got another question in here

50:04

can you cook them as a large scone like a giant

50:18

[Laughter] yeah so you could

50:24

i would reduce the temperature down a little bit because obviously um we're cooking small amounts or less

50:31

time so you know these these ones these ones are just starting to crisp up

50:36

on the edges on the bottoms of them which is inevitable it's going to happen

50:42

um if i was doing it on a big scone and i was just going to cook it as a whole i wouldn't do it on the

50:49

silicon mat i would do it just straight on a baking tray the silicon that kind of results like

50:54

kind of keeps the heat in so it doesn't help on larger items um

51:00

but yeah so longer or lower on your temperature so knock it down maybe 100 800 something like that

51:09

gas mark two or three and leave it for about maybe 20 minutes so

English (auto-generated)

Lecture

My year with the Flying Scotsman

Join David Parker for a captivating illustrated talk exploring the remarkable revival of steam railways and engines in Britain since the 1950s. Drawing on his three acclaimed BBC and ITV programmes, discover the extraordinary efforts behind saving iconic steam engines like the Flying Scotsman from the scrap heap.

This lecture brings to life the incredible stories of passionate enthusiasts and the challenges they faced, accompanied by footage of steam engines in action—some filmed by enthusiasts and others captured by the speaker during the rebuilding of the Flying Scotsman.

Video transcript

0:00

everybody can you hear me um oh well um yeah so that's good um um well hello everybody and uh thanks

0:07

very much for sacrificing what if you're anything like where i am an absolutely fabulous

0:13

afternoon to listen to me talk about flying scotsman and my year with that locomotive um it's um it's i'm i'm in weymouth at

0:21

the moment with a view of the sea which is where i'm heading when i finish this anyway um yes i've

0:27

titled this talk um my year with flying scotsman but maybe i should have built it as um the agony and the ecstasy

0:34

my year with flying scotsman because um i want to talk in part about the

0:40

trials and tribulations of making documentary because i experienced most of these

0:46

agonies while i was making two programs i made about flying scotsman one for

0:52

the bbc and one for itv so what i thought i would do is um

0:59

is wet your appetite i've got i've got six clips from the two films that i made and

1:05

i hope i'll be able to get through the six clips before about ten to six and also

1:10

um say something about why i've chosen these clips from the two films that i made and what they tell us about about the

1:17

history of this locomotive and also about something about the problems that

1:22

one faces when making a film of the sword i made actually but i wanted to sort of wet your

1:27

appetite for the locomotive itself by starting with a clip from the program

1:33

i made for the bbc that went out in 2013 made in 2012 went out in 2013.

1:39

called flying scotsman a rail romance and um uh it was made for bbc two and

1:46

it's got a two-minute introduction and i thought i'd show it to you just to just to give you an idea of something

1:52

about something about the locomotive and um our approach to making this making the film we made for the bbc so i'm going to

1:58

go to my screen share and um find um uh here we go

2:04

so i've got it here okay here we go

2:32

for generations one iconic steam locomotive has symbolized all that was

2:37

great about british engineering a flying scotsman

2:42

[Music] designed by one of britain's most gifted

2:48

railway designers and built by a team of skilled workers flying scotsman was a perfect example

2:55

of british craftsmanship at its best it's a very very live handsome sheen it

3:01

looks like a mechanical racehorse and that of course is what it was [Music]

3:10

in an age when british engineering had so much to be proud of flying scotsman was a record breaker the

3:17

first steam engine to reach 100 miles an hour the first to run non-stop between london and

3:23

edinburgh and the first to star in its own feature film it's a magic

3:29

locomotive a bit like apollo a bit like saturn five

3:38

such was the love affair with flying scotsman that even after steam was replaced by more modern technologies

3:45

it defied all expectations and survived it was rescued three times by three

3:52

different millionaires the whole idea of buying an express passenger locomotive from british

3:58

railways was something completely new nobody had ever done it before this is the story of that remarkable

4:05

adventure from flying scotsman's first days in the spotlight to a last minute escape from the

4:11

breaker's yard a 90-year journey that captured the hearts of a nation

4:37

um okay um crammed quite a lot into that two

4:43

minutes actually for the bbc and try to wet the appetite of the viewer as i'm hoping to whet your

4:49

appetite this evening to talk about why why flying scotsman is an interesting

4:54

object for television program or for for a wa talk actually and um i want to say something about how

5:02

how i came to make that film uh i'd made two documentaries for the bbc

5:07

called the golden age of steam where i'd talk gone back to home movies that

5:14

people had shot of their work in steam railway preservation both lines like the blue bell line and

5:22

the keithley and worth valley line and the talithlin narrage line where they'd film their

5:27

lives on the line shot their friends who were restoring these railway lines and some of the locomotives that ran on

5:34

them so people with vision in my view in the past

5:39

had home movie cameras on super 8 or 9.5 millimeter and they recorded these worlds that they

5:46

were very much part of that we knew very little about and through their films they tell us

5:52

something about uh the past in britain these films have been really popular with the the bbc

5:57

they've gone down very well on bbc four and i one day i got a phone call from the controller of um

6:03

documentaries at bbc2 to say that would i help them solve a problem

6:09

with a film that they were making about this locomotive flying scotsman

6:15

so i said yeah of course i would never would never turn work down certainly not work like that and what had happened was that they'd

6:21

asked a producer to make a film about flying scotsman because the producer had gone to them

6:27

with some material some film material that he'd shot in a workshop in the midlands where flying scotsman at

6:35

that time was being restored this is about 2000 and 2010 actually and it was owned

6:40

by then by the national railway museum and um uh he couldn't work out how to

6:46

make this film because what was happening was that every time he went to the workshop

6:51

the progress on the rebuild on the renovation was wasn't happening it was

6:56

taking far far longer and they weren't very happy about having him around and they were very

7:02

busy doing the work and so he wasn't getting anywhere with the with the film and he was trying to mix

7:08

this archive sorry nexus documentary material that he shot with old film about the history of

7:14

flying scotsman and he couldn't make those two strands in this documentary

7:20

work together and weave together that's not surprising that's quite a a difficult thing to pull off as i found

7:25

out subsequently and um so he'd

7:30

come to the end of the line as it were just to use a metaphor that might might have pro be appropriate for railways he'd come to the end of the

7:36

line and so he was stuck and so they wanted another producer to come in and say here's another way of doing it

7:42

so i came in as another producer looked at the material and said there's another way of doing

7:47

this and that is to drop all the material that he shot the

7:52

documentary material about the renovation which didn't amount to very much and wasn't very interesting

7:58

and just make a film a history film about the story of flying scotsman from

8:03

its inception in 2019 in 1923

8:10

to what was then the present day which was about 2011.

8:15

and um so that's what the bbc said okay well have a go at that see if you can make that work and that was a much

8:20

simpler film to make because it was a chronological history film that brought in witnesses and characters and

8:29

academics and authorities about the locomotive and also um also had

8:36

really nice archive film archive and stills archive that told the story visually very nicely

8:43

um just to give you a little bit of that history flying scotsman as i said was built in um was built to

8:50

come out of the works in doncaster that was called the plant in doncaster which at the time in 1920 21 22

8:58

after the great war was employing 12 000 men mostly men but some women as

9:04

well it was the principal locomotive building center

9:11

for the newly formed london and northeastern railway the lner after the great war when the railways

9:18

had been taken into public ownership lots and lots of different railway companies were brought together with in what's

9:24

called a grouping made into four massive companies and the lner was one of them and their great

9:30

rivals based at houston station the la er was based at king's cross based at houston station

9:35

was the um lms the london middle and scottish or the the limitless scottish railway but two

9:41

more the great western railway that ran out of paddington to the southwest and then the southern railway that ran out

9:46

of waterloo and victoria to the south coast and partly to the southwest but this story is principally about the lner

9:53

and its new and very young chief mechanical engineer a man called nigel gresley

9:59

and after the war after the great war there was um certainly in the roaring 20s in the

10:05

early 1920s there was a great thirst for for fast travel and uh

10:11

gresley was one of the men who tried to meet this demand this thirst is quench

10:16

for for fast travel for big travel by bringing together bringing in to the

10:22

london and northeastern railway a new suite of locomotives the biggest that britain had ever seen

10:28

they were known as pacific locomotives because their wheel arrangements was four little wheels at the front um

10:35

six big driving wheels and two trailing wheels under the cab so it was a four

10:41

six two configuration and nothing like this locomotive had been

10:46

seen in britain before when it was launched in 1923 it wasn't the first of these

10:51

pacifics to be launched but it um subsequently became the most famous it didn't have a name actually in 1923 and it only acquired a name when

11:00

it broke down the following year uh and the company wanted to put a

11:05

locomotive into the big empire exhibition at wembley there's not much left of that empire

11:10

exhibition center these days but in 1924 it was massive it had

11:16

millions and tens of millions of people visited it over two years and the uh the wembley stadium was one of the

11:21

one of the one of the achievements of it a flying scotsman broken down was put

11:27

into the um was put into the um uh the assembly hall the the exhibition hall uh alongside

11:34

a couple of locomotives from other other of these big companies given a gloss of paint and given a name

11:41

it needed a name and they didn't know what to call it and somebody came up with it nobody knows who it was came up with the name flying scotsman so

11:48

it was seen this biggest locomotive that had ever been made in britain was seen by millions and millions and millions of

11:54

people in a space of two years so it became by default the flagship engine for this huge

12:01

company um and then over the years up until 1963 i've sort of divided this talk in a

12:08

sense into the years between 1923 and 1963 and then from 1963 to the present day

12:14

because in 1963 this flagship locomotive was finally withdrawn from service

12:20

and it was going to go to the breakers yard and it didn't it was saved by one of the three

12:25

millionaires who were involved in its rescue after 1963.

12:30

but before 1963 it had it had acquired this iconic status it had acquired this

12:36

really famous status as um as one of the most famous locomotives in the whole world

12:42

and the film i made for the bbc explored how this came to pass how did it become how did flying

12:47

scotsman rather than mallard or the coronation scots or the royal scot or one of the king class

12:55

in them in the great western railway or the castle class or rocket or even thomas the tank engine

13:02

how did flying scotsman eclipse all these um mallard and become the most famous locomotive

13:08

in the world i can't i can't go into a whole all the detail of that in the

13:15

time i've got available this evening but i wanted to show you one clip which shows how nigel grassley

13:22

and the team at the um at the london and northeastern railway began to cultivate

13:28

the the mythology and the image of flying scotsman as this iconic centerpiece of their of their

13:35

railway world um as i said it was it came

13:40

out of the wembley exhibition and went back into service in 1925 and in um and it was it was it was

13:48

it was running on the route between uh between london london king's cross

13:54

and edinburgh waverly and on the other side of the under this side of the country

13:59

the london middle and scottish railway was running between london houston and glasgow and they were

14:06

competitive they were very very competitive they competed for elite passengers these weren't locomotives and trains

14:13

for the everyday traveler they were far too expensive they were the last word in luxury travel and so

14:20

getting to scotland first was a really really important part of that competition

14:26

the trouble was with both that they couldn't they couldn't um they couldn't get to

14:32

scotland as quickly as the technology allowed because the law required uh locomotive

14:37

drivers and firemen quite understandably to have a break after seven hours and no locomotive could get from london

14:44

to scotland in seven hours so they had to stop either at either carlisle or york

14:49

depending on whether lms or lner and pick up a new crew

14:54

and in 1928 on the 1st of may 1928 nigel gresley ran the very first

15:03

non-stop train pulled by flying scotsman the train also called flying scotsman

15:10

from king's cross to waverly and it was a world first and how did he do it this is what

15:17

this little clip will will illustrate i've got to go back to um share screen to do this so bear with me

15:42

flying scotsman went back to the job of pulling trains from london to edinburgh but competition for rail passengers was

15:49

intense and the lner was constantly searching for new ways to outdo its great rival the london

15:56

midland scottish railway which ran a daily service from london to glasgow

16:01

the royal scot in 1928 they came up with an idea that

16:07

would take flying scotsman a step further to becoming a legend it would star

16:12

in an attempt on a world record no railway company in the world had ever

16:18

managed to run a train non-stop over 390 miles but there were aspects of flying

16:24

scotsman's design which would help the boiler could produce tremendous power it was large enough to be able to

16:31

feed three cylinders with steam at full pressure and for long periods

16:37

[Music] the problem gresley had was that you

16:42

have your first crew here in the cab of the locomotive you have the replacement crew here in the first coach

16:48

and the normal tenders you can't get them across gresley's genius was to put a corridor

16:54

through the tender he designs this and famously uh he checks it out by putting some chairs

17:00

along the side of his dining room and one of his daughters discovers him sort of squeezing along because he's got

17:06

a big bloke squeeze along behind these chairs and he says well you know if i can get through here my

17:12

crews can get through here

17:19

in great secrecy doncaster works built a corridor tender and on may the first flying scotsman sallied

17:24

forth from king's cross on her way to [Music]

17:30

edinburgh it was a momentous day for everyone to

17:37

run non-stop from london to edinburgh it's a massive piece of coordination

17:43

there's over 200 signal boxes on route you only need one of those signalmen to

17:48

pull the signals to red and you stop and they don't stop they completed the

17:55

390 mile journey in just over eight hours twelve minutes ahead of schedule

18:03

it was a world first and gresley's stroke of genius was to change the way people traveled

18:08

not just in britain but across the globe

18:26

um only did the um they pull off that a non-stop journey to um to edinburgh on

18:32

may the first 1928 but they had photographers at waverly and at um king's cross

18:41

to celebrate their achievement and that was organized by their their um pr

18:47

department uh by a man called cecil dandridge and um they were constantly the

18:53

dandridge and the publicity department in the um in the lner were constantly promoting

18:59

flying scotsman and promoting their company as the go-ahead uh move forward company and um one of

19:05

the things that they did that year or the year later was to commission a new font for all the um

19:13

for all the lner typefaces on the locomotives on the station notice

19:19

boards everywhere and it was called sans-serif it was a very very modern um a very very modern typeface

19:27

and it really lifted this company into into um into the sort of sense of modernism even

19:34

though we were in the middle of a an economic depression would quickly become a slump

19:39

nevertheless they were really very keen to promote this go ahead um looking ahead sort of um

19:46

railway and using flying scotsman as a flagship to do it and in 1929 uh flying scotsman appeared in a

19:53

in a film actually called and it was the film was actually called flying scotsman it was a drama starring ray milan and it was the first

20:00

talkie the first half of this film was it's silent the second half was using it was a talkie film

20:06

and flying scotsman was absolutely the star of that film and then in 1934 something else they did

20:11

something else which was another world first which really cemented the reputation of flying

20:17

scotsman and put it before the public as the most famous locomotive around and this is this is what they did

20:44

speed had always been part of the ln er brand and in 1934 speed was at the heart of

20:50

nigel gresley's plan to use flying scotsman for the company's most audacious publicity coup to date

20:57

an attempt on another world record to run at 100 miles an hour

21:05

because locomotives weren't fitted with speedometers gresley coupled a dynamometer car to the train

21:11

[Music] the driver on that journey was a man called bill sparchat

21:19

sparshaft apparently said when they left king's cross station there were bystanders there he said

21:24

if we hit anything today we'll hit it hard

21:30

[Music]

21:36

speed started to rise 80 85 19 95

21:44

and just before she reached the station of essendeen and had to slow down she reached a magic ton she was the

21:50

first team locomotive anywhere in the world to have verifiably done so

22:01

the driver and fireman arrived at king's cross to a celebrity welcome dandridge made sure the press were on

22:07

hand to record yet another remarkable achievement it made the front page of the newspapers

22:13

the nation was reading about flying scotsman and the nation was captivated

22:20

everyone young as well as old wanted to be part of the story

22:27

if you're thinking trains and you don't know everything about model railways flying

22:34

scotsman rings a bell i've heard about that that's the set i want daddy

22:42

it's a magic locomotive a bit like apollo a bit like saturn v

22:49

in those days it was fast travel in in the 20s there were very few people

22:55

who actually went further than the town that was next to their village so going up to scotland was like going

23:02

to another world another universe quite frankly flying scotsman represented that so they

23:09

were able to have a little bit of that sort of travel in their own home with the model

23:22

[Music] models of flying scotsman helped spread

23:27

its reputation across the country toy manufacturers like hornby and basset

23:33

loke quickly found the flying scotsman became their most popular product they were manufacturing replicas using

23:40

technologies similar to those that have been used to build the real thing

23:51

the name flying scotsman was everywhere in just 11 years it had become a national celebrity

24:10

but that was the end of the story in one sense because five years later it was completely eclipsed by another

24:16

locomotive out of the nigel grassley stable um uh called um mallard

24:22

which ran at 129 miles an hour 124 120 409 i can't quite remember now

24:29

miles an hour uh the world's fastest ever steam locomotive and again promoted heavily by the um by

24:36

the company so flying scotsman really took a back seat from then on and um very little was heard from it during the

24:42

war it was painted black and moved troops and armaments around the country and when the railways were nationalized

24:49

in 1948 nobody really cared much about what happened to 47 sorry nobody cared much about what

24:56

happened to flying scotsman but in 1955 uh british railways produced a plan

25:04

to modernize the whole of the railway network and it included getting rid of a lot of

25:09

branch lines and getting rid of steam and um

25:14

a lot of steam engines were scrapped a and uh steam later on was um it was decided

25:20

that steam would be phased out completely in 1968 and flying scotsman was given its

25:25

marching orders in 1962 it was due to go to be scrapped in 1960

25:31

late 1962 uh to the furnace really and there's a big campaign to

25:36

stop this happening and instep to fairy godfather a rich man called alan pegler he bought the locomotive

25:44

spent three thousand pounds buying it took it to doncaster did it up and started it running around

25:50

the network um with the consent of british rail on rail tours and that went on until

25:57

1968 and when bridge rail said actually that's we've had enough of that now we don't want any more steam on our railway on

26:03

our very modern railway at all and pegler took it to america it stayed there for a while

26:08

it bankrupted him and it was brought back to to england by a man called bill uh bill

26:15

mcalpin a very very keen rail enthusiast who died recently actually he bought it he kept it for a while and

26:21

then he it was bought from him by another millionaire who suffered financially as a result of buying it called um

26:27

tony marchington and in 19 in 2004 it was going to be sold abroad

26:35

and the national railway museum said my goodness me we can't have this national icon being sold abroad

26:40

we'll buy it for the nation so they had a fund and richard branson gave them quite a lot of money and lots of school boys

26:48

pitched in with their pocket money and it was saved to the nation and it went into the national railway museum and

26:53

with not much idea about about what to do with it and that's where my film really ended

26:59

because when i made my film it was in the national railway museum as a sort of static object with question

27:06

marks being asked about what would happen to it the film went out in 2013 and um

27:14

it was on the happened to coincide with the 90th anniversary of the locomotive so we called it a real romance and um

27:21

and um to celebrate its 90th birthday and the film did well it got a good it

27:28

got a good audience um and there's always i think an appetite a minority appetite but an appetite for

27:35

programs about steam in fact you can't move for programs about steam on channel five these days but that's that's another story um

27:42

while i was making that film i was aware that there was a move to really

27:48

do a proper renovation of flying scotsman and so i started asking questions of the

27:54

the railway museum in york about whether i could follow that renovation properly to film the renovation properly

28:00

and they were quite keen for that to happen and i went to the bbc and said we could make a second film about flying scotsman

28:06

who could tell the story of its renovation and bringing it back to the main line and they did what they

28:12

did with most of my ideas they said no thanks we've done our program about flying scotsman we don't want any more thank you

28:18

and channel 4 said the same thing and so did channel 5. uh i wonder if they would do that now i don't know but uh anyway but

28:24

itv said actually we're quite interested in that and so i started talking to itv in the

28:30

national railway museum about about how we could do this and i said the um

28:35

i'd found out by then that the renovation was going to take place it's already begun and the plan was to

28:42

bring flying scotsman back to the tracks in time for christmas 2015. so the end of the year a big

28:48

christmas present to the nation was going to be flying scotsman on the railway again

28:53

at the end of 2015 and we were in 2000 mid-2013 now

28:59

and they said okay well let's go and let's see if the um the railway museum will go along with it first and then so i went to the railway

29:05

museum and they said yes we'd like to do that we'll give you exclusive access to it if you can guarantee us

29:11

a television market for it so this is what i said to itv i became the sort of barterer in the middle of the piggy in the middle sort

29:17

of approach anyway so this went on for a while and then i had a phone call from it we said

29:22

look we've got a problem with this idea of yours we like the idea but our audience is predominantly women

29:29

and um women don't really watch programs about steam and i said oh well that's a shame i

29:35

didn't realize that and they said no he said we so you need a presenter who appeals to women ideally a man who can appeal to women

29:41

and i said god who who will that be and they said well what have you thought about robson green he's doing a lot of work for itv

29:47

so i said yes okay so i wrote to robson green's agent and went up to seam in newcastle and

29:54

we had a chat about this he had lots and lots of demands on his time lots and lots of requests for him but he liked the idea

30:01

of flying scotsman because he had a personal interest in it which i'll i'll come on to in a second and i

30:07

remember the meeting we had um we had and it was a really really funny meeting because he was making notes

30:14

and one of the questions he asked me was why um why did i think flying scotsman was so

30:19

important and i said well steen was midwife to modern britain you know steam locomotion was the midwife to the

30:25

the modern state we are and he said that's a really good line i'll write that down and he wrote that down and i actually used it in the program

30:32

and he said you know what's so special about this history and i said robson if you don't know your own history

30:37

you're a prisoner of somebody else's history so i like that line as well and he wrote that one down as well so he was writing down all these lines and

30:43

eventually said yes i'd like to i'll do it so i went back to itv and said robson green will do it and

30:50

they said fine okay we'll we'll do it go and see the company that are rebuilding it was a company in a

30:55

in a little town in lancashire called berry and it was a company called riley's automotive engineers

31:03

and um i then faced a much bigger problem than i'd anticipated and that was they didn't

31:10

want me anywhere near it they didn't want me to be in there filming while they rebuilt flying

31:15

scotsman they were absolutely adamant they just thought film crews would get in the way

31:21

they didn't particularly like me i don't know why but um they were really really against it and even when robson green

31:26

came on board they were they were very reluctant but they didn't own the locomotive

31:32

the locomotive was owned by the national railway museum and the railway museum said to the

31:37

company you've got to have this film crew in so you can imagine that's quite a difficult position to be in where you're

31:43

in somewhere where you want to be intimate with them you want to celebrate their work and their skills and they don't want you there and that

31:49

was a tension that ran through the whole of 2015.

31:55

we got the contract to make this program right at the end of 2014 robson green as

32:02

i said was very busy and could only give us eight days and the company would only let us in to

32:07

the locomotive build in the whole year on four days

32:13

and um so i'll stop there for a second and i'm going to show you the next clip because

32:18

this is the clip that begins the program i made for itv it's not

32:24

what's called the pre-title sequence it's the first clip of the film it's quite short but it sets up this film in the way we

32:32

thought we could make it and um i'll i'll flag up some of the points in this clip

32:37

when i've played it to you so i'll go back to screen share screen and here we go

32:56

this is how flying scotsman once the most famous steam engine in the world used to look

33:04

and i'm sure most of you like me thought it had died gone for good oh it was like this sorry

33:10

looking character here just rusting away to nothing well

33:16

it's still alive just and i can tell you where it is it's

33:22

lying in bits in this workshop behind me it's been out of action for the last 10

33:27

years but now a team of highly skilled engineers are finally bringing it back to life

33:35

whenever you take any engine apart it's still you're going back to how they used to do it back in the day

33:40

it's just old-fashioned engineering there's no fancy computers to help you

33:46

out you've got to think for yourself you've got to plan your jobs yourself

33:52

and this extraordinary team are going to let another old-fashioned engineer me give them a hand

33:59

it's an enormous challenge but if they succeed flying scotsman will once again be

34:05

traveling across the country for everyone to see and it promised me the chance of a lifetime

34:13

to ride in the cab so we better get going

34:20

it's february and flying scotsman's owners the national railway museum want their flagship engine up and

34:26

running by the end of the year so for the men in this workshop near

34:31

manchester the pressure is really off

34:44

um just to pick up a couple of points from that little opening sequence there obviously we were introducing

34:50

robson green to the um the public and um one of the things that um

34:58

we wanted to do was convey to the um to the television public that he wasn't

35:04

just going to be a a passive observer in this process he was going to be an active

35:10

participant in it he had been before he began acting he'd been a

35:15

welder an apprentice welder in the northeast of england and a shipyard and he was quite keen to hone his

35:22

welding skills so he wanted to do what television people called immersion

35:27

he wanted to immerse himself in the in the process that was unfolding over the year uh of

35:33

the building of this rail building of this locomotive but of course that was very difficult for a number of reasons one he wasn't there

35:39

very much he wasn't there he was only there for the whole for the whole program for eight days and we were

35:44

weaving together the history of flying scotsman with this actuality documentary they didn't

35:51

want him there although they were quite keen on the fan celebrity relationship they were reluctant to have

35:56

him there and of course there were big health and safety issues and um safeguarding issues to deal with

36:02

as well and that they were they were under pressure um didn't uh certainly came across to me

36:09

in that year how much pressure they were under what they eventually did with me was to say that you can come in and do

36:15

your filming on friday afternoons when all the men have gone home because they used to finish work on friday lunchtime and i would say to

36:22

them yeah but nothing's happening on friday afternoon there's nobody here doing anything um we can't really film anything and

36:28

they said yeah but union we can't stop work just for you because we've got to get this

36:33

locomotive finished by christmas what in fact was happening was that they had a number of commissions and they ran their

36:38

own locomotives they were called black fives up and down them up and down the west coast of scotland

36:45

in the summer and they were getting their locomotives ready to do that so they kept putting the refurbishment of flying scotsman on one

36:51

side while they did their own work and that was incredibly frustrating because we knew that the the national railway museum

36:58

wanted it by the end of the year and worse when i told itv uh that it was going to be finished by

37:05

the end of the year they said to me brilliant what we'll do is we'll screen it on boxing day

37:10

it'll be our big our big documentary on boxing day on itv you know sandwiched between two james

37:16

bond films it will be a it would be a sensational time to probably put this family film out so the whole

37:22

the rebuild was was designed to be finished at christmas the project the television project was designed to

37:28

be finished at christmas and transmitted over christmas and new year so i did feel i felt a bit of pressure at the

37:33

time actually with a group of people who didn't really want me there and robson who was saying what's

37:39

wrong with them what's the matter with them um why don't they want us there um anyway so um i said that we were

37:46

there we did get in in the end for more than four days we were there for more like five and a half days and i'm

37:52

going to show you a clip now i think i've got time yes i'm going to show you a clip now which spans two of the times

38:00

we were there um before i do that i just want to make mention one more thing about robson

38:07

green um and that is um he says that um

38:13

he's got a personal stake in flying scotsman and one of the reasons he was keen to do it

38:18

is because he did have a personal stake in him part of that was that he comes from the

38:23

northeast of england he comes from the industrial coal fields of durham and northumberland

38:29

and steam was created there you know the um the story of um of um of

38:36

of um of the of the uh stockton and darlington railway in the

38:41

1820s the very first railway pulling coal but when people climbed on and it was realized that they could run

38:47

passenger traffic on a railway it all began it all began in the northeast and that's where robson came from so he felt quite

38:53

passionate about that but there's another reason why he had a personal stake in this which is in this i think it's in this clip

38:59

actually yes um so i'm going to show you this is a slightly longer clip this is nearly five minutes this clippers

39:04

so you can have a break from me talking um right share screen

39:13

and again i'll say something about um about it when i've shown you the clip

39:26

actually [Music]

39:40

so [Music]

39:50

you know when i'm fly fishing yeah and i cast a fly that's the best rhythm

39:57

[Music]

40:09

fan on every wheel please [Music]

40:18

all right we're just pushing up a little bit

40:26

[Music]

40:37

that's precision engineering at his finest instinctively can you tell a good engineer from a bad one yeah

40:44

some of the best slabs in here alonzo haven't done i can't read all right

40:49

so i came into here to do an engineering for my hands at school i did struggle

40:57

with it but when you come into an environment like this you know there's a purpose for it you think well i need to learn to do

41:03

that now i need to do this you know and you've got lads that they can apply

41:10

themselves and not supply themselves and actually put the effort in when you've got lads that can do that they can achieve

41:24

now it's looking more like a steam engine but there's no lettuce the team are not even halfway there

41:32

their goals an ambitious one [Music] to restore flying scotsman to the world

41:39

famous status its original designer nigel gresley would have been proud of

41:46

just how did the son of a midlands clergyman turn a colossal steam engine into a household name

41:53

well believe it or not the answer lies among the beautiful north york moors

42:03

[Music]

42:14

now this part of the journey gets personal for me because in the 1920s flying scotsman

42:20

came into my family in northumberland in dramatic fashion

42:31

in 1926 millions of workers up and down the country stopped work in support of striking coal miners

42:39

those in northumberland were led by a member of my family my middle name

42:45

is go lightly and i get it from my great grandfather william golightly

42:50

who was president of the num for northumberland and during the 1926 strike he gave a

42:56

speech and he told the miners to stop the wheels turning he meant the wheels of industry what he

43:02

didn't mean were the wheels of a very famous steam engine

43:11

well a group of striking miners lifted a rail to stop a train that they

43:17

thought was pulling coal what they didn't know

43:22

that train was flying scotsman sadly it derailed

43:28

[Music] luckily no one was killed but a group of

43:34

seven miners were jailed for nearly seven years

43:43

they wanted william golightly to support them to help their cause but william

43:48

distanced himself from them and what they stood for and so the name golightly

43:55

is dirt in the northumberland coal field

44:07

but it wasn't only my great-grandfather's reputation that suffered in 1926 that terrible incident left flying

44:14

scotsman's image horribly stained and it took nigel gresley two years to restore it

44:28

now that was the that was the real reason robson wanted to do this film i think it was because he had a personal

44:34

interest and a personal commitment through his great-grandfather william go lightly leader of the um

44:40

northumberland minus federation in 1926 in the general strike he had that personal interest and he so

44:46

he knew something about flying scotsman as well as seeing it when he was a child it that was quite important to him actually

44:52

um but just just reflecting on that clip for a second um he um

44:57

it um it begins in february with that um uh with that

45:04

music sequence that's when robson is first in there and it goes to may which is the second time he got in there

45:10

except he wasn't there the big the big event in this spring in may was the re-wheeling where they

45:15

brought the wheels out and then put the boiler on top of the wheels and it suddenly looked like a locomotive again

45:21

and robson wasn't there he was in australia filming fly fishing and we had to do that without him and so

45:26

what we did you might not have noticed this we just cut in a little sequence we shot earlier a conversation between him and the um

45:33

the one of the works charge hands uh greg greg mcgill about young people working in the

45:38

industry and put the two things together so that you didn't notice that robson wasn't there

45:44

that was the sort of thing that went on for the whole the whole of the year and the year climaxed um at the end of

45:51

the year i said earlier on i'm coming to the end of my talk and it's nearly like i've just got time to show you this final clip

45:56

it climaxed uh when the locomotive was finished and ready to go out into steam

46:02

again on test trials and i'll um i'll play this clip and then say something about it and then invite

46:09

questions i think actually um to to louisa let me go back to my screen share

46:42

today's the big day [Music] my year with flying scotsman is almost

46:49

over [Music] thousands have turned out on a wet

46:54

january morning to see the legend return to the track for the first time in

47:00

ten years a triumph for the people who made it happen when you've actually

47:06

finished it and it's out there it's in steam and you walk out and you stand back and you see it leave the shed

47:13

and that's our work that's our achievement as a team

47:20

[Music] well just like he thought it couldn't get any better

47:26

they've asked me to fire flying scotsman

47:50

how many people get to do this right on the footplate of the most famous steam engine

47:56

in the world

48:07

you know as an actor and presenter all i've done during my career has helped to tell a story and the

48:12

rebuilding this icon of engineering by colin green and his amazing team of engineers is

48:19

quite a tale and it's one that inspires the imagination

48:25

[Music]

48:31

not many people turn around and say oh i helped rebuild the flying scotsman who else can do that [Music]

48:38

it's a story of commitment dedication skill and that is heart

48:46

love when i'm older or my daughter's older

48:54

it'll be my dad's worked on flying scotsman and that's the kind of thing that i will

49:00

enjoy the reverb of this locomotive legend

49:07

is something that i think we as a nation should be incredibly proud of

49:14

so all good things must come to an end and i've got a feeling the story of flying scotsman is one that

49:20

will carry on for generations to come always wanted to do this

49:29

oh yeah oh yeah um

49:37

just i want to make four points and then i'll stop about that final shoot first thing you can see is the date it

49:43

was on the 10th and 11th and 12th of january 2016. so that means that we missed

49:51

they missed their deadline for completing the locomotive and we missed our deadline for showing the film on boxing day on itv

49:58

and after that then we knew about this beforehand of course itv completely lost interest in

50:04

the project and showed it sometime in in february without any publicity at all

50:09

the second thing is it absolutely rained it rained and it rained for a fortnight

50:14

it covered the whole countryside it absolutely pelted down and there were far fewer people on the railway station in bury to

50:21

to greet it than than we were hoping for and they were expecting the third thing is that you see robson

50:27

green in the cab he fulfills his boyhood dream to ride in the most famous steam engine in the world but only

50:33

after i threatened to lie down in front of it because the crew on the day said he couldn't do it he

50:38

wasn't allowed in and when they relented they said well you can't have a cameraman in there as well it's dangerous

50:44

and we said how can we have robson in there without a cameraman it's absurd but that was the sort of tension uh that

50:50

um that we had and then finally you won't notice this unless you're really sharp eyed but all the shots you see

50:58

are flying scotsman the locomotive you only see the locomotive itself um and

51:05

the tender poles that it pulls with the coal you never see it pulling carriages and that's because on the day on the way

51:11

on the weekend it broke down and they had to put a diesel engine between the locomotive

51:17

and the carriages to push it along so flying scotsman he's not pulling anything it's being pushed by a diesel locomotive

51:24

and i couldn't bring myself to be honest with the viewers about that i just couldn't face it i couldn't face the

51:30

idea that we spent the whole year making this film about the best steam engine in the world only to go there on

51:36

the final day and it was it broke down and didn't work so that was why there was a lot more agony than ecstasy

51:42

in that um in that the process of making that film over that year my year with flying scotsman anyway

51:47

louisa i'll stop there because um i might need a stiff drink but if there's anybody got any questions

51:54

i'll i'll try and field them as long as they're not technical okay wonderful and that last clip made me tear up a little

52:00

bit i don't know if i was the only one but what do you guys think oh how emotional it's quite emotional isn't it yes it's

52:07

just painful for me to watch that yeah imagine it's got a different different energy for you

52:14

we did have a question um is the full length film um

52:20

available to watch i think that was submitted during the first half i think it probably applies to both

52:26

both documentaries are they available anywhere for people to watch um well i was distributing them on dvd

52:32

but nobody's got a dvd anymore actually so we don't do that any longer i mean if people really want to see them

52:38

i mean the bbc show um a rail romance quite regularly um uh but the itv

52:46

program no they they they've never they've never reacquired it but um i can get it to people i mean if

52:52

you give people my email and they're desperate to see it i can i can't upload it for them so

52:57

excuse me that is possible but it's not it's not generally available but it can be made available if you see what i mean or they can be made available

53:03

yeah that's wonderful thank you um sorry just scrolling down why are trains

53:09

always called she flying scott's man he's a man oh yeah i

53:16

don't know it's okay preparing terrorism well the the most people who are in love with steam

53:23

locomotives are men we have to be honest about that um and the other love of men's lives is

53:28

women i suppose and so you know they they put the two things together i don't know same with boats isn't it

53:35

ships it's always a she yeah even though they're not always called after a woman named after a woman

53:41

um are any of the trains mentioned not just the flying scotsman but like the mallard etc

53:47

still around and offering tours mallard is um is on static display

53:54

at the national railway museum but it's sister locomotive named after nigel gresley call nigel

54:00

gresley in that wonderful blue livery the fairings on it is is does run around

54:08

the railway in fact when we filmed the sequence in the north york moors

54:13

another another hassle with the program we were going to film on it and the night before they phoned us up

54:18

to say it broken down and we couldn't film and we'd set the whole weekend filming on the north york moore's railway we had to scrap a lot

54:25

another that's another nightmare i had but there are other locomotives around i

54:30

mean there's um you can you know there's um this tornado a very famous locomotive a new build there's lots of um

54:37

there's lots of western region if you go to the preserve railways there's steam on them

54:42

all the time there's you know they've all taken an enormous hammering with covid i mean absolutely in fact one

54:48

the lanca often railway um went out of business for a while it's come back into business now but they've

54:54

they've said they've taken an absolutely stonking hammering but um but the two films i made for the bbc

55:00

called the golden age of steam one about narrow gauge and one about standard gauge they are shown a lot so you can see steam on those two programs

55:07

every time you turn the tv on brilliant um did the restoration company ever

55:14

change their attitude after the film was completed and shown no no oh no in fact

55:21

flying scotsman's coming up to its centenary in 2023 and i have talked to the bbc and channel

55:27

5 about doing an update although with a heavy heart because i had such a terrible experience in

55:33

making that film but the company who rebuilt it don't want to know

55:39

i don't know i mean might be me of course yeah i've never had that problem before in 30 years of filmmaking never once

55:46

no how old um and someone said i cannot believe

55:53

there is no future for some sort of place for steam like what do you think the future of

55:59

steam trainers tourism that's the only future for steam because it's a it's a pollutant it's

56:05

coal it's it's yesterday's technology it's um you know it's um it's

56:11

not it's slow it's dirty in fact there's a railway line near where i live in bristol called the slow and dirty the um the bath to bournemouth line the

56:18

somerset dorset railway but it's popular in in tourism and

56:25

leisure you know so if you go to um if you go to the for example the west somerset railway that runs

56:30

from to mine head from outside taunton that is apart from butlins the biggest revenue

56:37

maker in that area of somerset it's enormously popular same with the um the um the southern valley railway in a

56:44

beautiful beautiful railway on the on the southern valley it's enormously popular and it's um it's

56:49

a good it's it's part of the it's got it's it's england's becoming heritage isn't it and it's part of the heritage i mean it

56:56

should be part of the heritage because we gave steam to the world actually and the industrial revolution was fashioned

57:02

out of steam and so um so we should be celebrating it but i don't think it's ever going to come back as a commercial

57:09

commercially viable transport there's so much so many more cleaner ways of getting people around actually

57:16

don't forget loughborough quite right i filmed a guy in loughborough who was um who was a fireman of flying scotsman

57:22

lovely guy he might not even be alive anymore but um that was another railway that closed in

57:27

as a result of the beaching closures in 1963 and that's a preserve railway with some terrific locomotives on it

57:34

[Music] um and then i'll do one more question and we'll the questions that we haven't

57:40

got to i'll send to you okay afterwards and we can do a whip around with them but um someone says there was a museum at

57:47

swindon um and i think someone further up the chat mentioned that was quite a good museum in berry as well

57:52

and are there any others apart from the one in york that you'd recommend

57:57

um well swindon swindon is um uh is um it's a it's not a bad static

58:04

display uh there's there's a um did cot as well where the uh the the whole story of preservation started

58:11

in didcot although they've only got about 100 yards of track i think i mean the place where i came

58:17

from where i grew up is crew and um

58:22

crew was even more important than doncaster in the story of rail on the story of steam i mean crew

58:29

works was so big it had its own founder it made its own steel it was

58:34

that it was that big 15 000 people out of a population in the town of 55 000 work for the railway and it's

58:42

got no recognizable acknowledgement of its place in the history of the world

58:48

actually i mean it's just a complete disgrace actually it's a total total disgrace

58:53

uh york is pretty good but the place to see steam i think is when it's when it's moving not when it's

58:58

not when it's stan static i mean there's nothing like a steam locomotive on the move it's

59:03

really a thrill to watch it go past and um and so you can google

59:09

i mean because everybody wants to tell you when a steam locomotive is running around your area you can google it and find it and go and

59:14

go and look at it actually yeah there's a big fashion you know these days for people my age in having um

59:21

having their 60th or 70th birthdays or their golden wedding anniversaries uh learning

59:27

how to drive a steam locomotive you can pay for a day and um you can be taught how to drive a

59:32

steam locomotive right from cleaning it to firing it to um to driving it in a day and that's

59:37

there's an awful lot of um older people doing that these days and of course young kids that's where they experience santa claus

59:44

these days they don't go to department stores to sit on santa's knee they go to a preserve railway and go on the santa

59:51

special you know and that's really popular i mean massively popular yeah that's great my dad's got a big

59:57

birthday this year so i'm going to be looking up that uh yeah do that the present idea

1:00:03

where does he live he lives in south south east london southeast london oh the blue bell

1:00:09

railway yeah it's a lovely railway the very first preserved standard gauge railway was in

1:00:14

sussex the blue belt and there there's a terrorist that's a terrific railway that is actually yeah

1:00:20

i'm literally writing that down right now always i'll forget i give you my i can remind you don't

1:00:26

worry thank you um that's wonderful i will i'll call it

1:00:31

that we have had a few other questions so i will um send them send them through afterwards

1:00:37

and then we'll get the quest uh the answers out to everyone and but so just a massive thank you

1:00:42

that's been been incredible i think there's been lots of comments in the chat about everyone's enjoyed it

1:00:48

i think so at least one other person so they got a little bit teary as well so i feel validated in my reaction there

1:00:56

but i will i will stop the recording now um okay

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