Archive lectures and events

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Thank you, Fiona, and hopefully, you will not if you can hear what I'm saying.

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I think she can Okay, Okay, it's a delight for me to be here today to give you the what I think are the amazing art works on the London underground, and clearly we'll only have a chance to have a little bit of a

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taster today, within the hour that we have but we'll try and pick out some of the best

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The crucial thing about the arts of the underground is that anybody should be able to see it.

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In general it's behind you Unfortunately, as you wait for the train. it's on the platform wall behind, you so a lot of people can travel for a whole career.

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Never turn around and never appreciate all of the investment that's gone in to make it a more interesting place.

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But here I will explain to you as we go through it what the art works that we're covering mean, and it's usually about history or major events.

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Major personalities. So without more ado, I will just share my screen.

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So you can actually see some of the great artworks

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Right. and as you can see hopefully we're gonna start at latent stone station, not the premier station of the whole of the underground. I'm just moving a few things around while so that.

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I can make sure. I can see all of the screen.

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And just a little bit more. Okay, So let's ask see?

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See exactly what we're going to talk about walking to Isolation Stone Station.

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One fine sunny day you may think that you're seeing advertising posters on the size of the of the walls of the entrance, which is the normal expectation.

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But latent stone is celebrating the great works of film.

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Director, Alfred Hitchcock, on his sanctuary in 1999 clearly are well.

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After he died they decided to mark their local hero by putting a gallery of mosaics of his life, and works all over the station much better there than in some little visited gallery or museum.

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So this is what you can see on the left hand side a screen, a shot of Henry Fonder.

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You may recognize him with Alfred Hitchcock in the back on the right hand side.

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You can see if I still, from rebecca potentially his most famous film of all, i'm enlarging the mosaic of Rebecca, you see a lot of works gone into this from a local

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workshop, and this scene has Judith Anderson on the right hand side, as the housekeeper of Mandela, the mansion in which the to winter family lives.

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She is trying to persuade the second Mrs. de Winter to jump out of the window, because she in no way way compares with the first. Mrs.

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De winter. These mosaics have a bit of a local touch route for Hitchcock as well.

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So, instead of seeing Mandela the home of the winters in Cornwall, in the background, we see a chart. St.

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John's church in Latin stone so the designers here. have had a bit of fun which is the case in many of the artworks.

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Let's move on to another scene. probably the most famous of all the stills from all of his films psycho.

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And here we have poor Janet Lee in the shower, with

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Anthony Perkins behind, just ready to strike, and despite that, the courageous Alfred Hitchcock is standing there in the shower with the naked Janet.

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Lee so a scene note Nobody see who's seen the film will ever forget.

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So this is the 17 of those mosaics cover the walls of the Tube station.

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3 of them relate to scenes in Hitchcock to life.

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The other 14 are his most famous films. jump across London to West London, to South Kensington, and here, rather subliminally, I went past these artworks many times on the train.

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Never noticed them, because it's the the yellow or the sandy color almost disappears.

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But here at South Kensington, we have an exhibition of pictures of the way and extinct animals celebrated in the Natural History Museum, just up the road.

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Yeah, you've no doubt recognized the dodo last seen in 1662, and apart from the picture of the dodo, we have some patterning which reflects the terracotta patterning on the outside of the

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Museum, so a few elements from the institution altogether on the platform.

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And how did Mary Wooden, a young Rca. student, who won the design competition run by transport for London at the time?

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How did she select her animals? Well, this is the main entrance on the Cromwell road to the Natural History Museum, and you can see above the 2 arches of the entrance and exit.

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You can see the animals in sculpture a row of 5 of them.

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In this case. Well, if you look wider than that so the 2 wings of the buildings, you'll see sculptures of animals all over the building, especially on every pinnacle, on this classical Come, gothic structure, and

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so she's taken them. the if you look at the animals in the left wing that those are all in rare animals on the right wing, looking here you they're all extinct.

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So this is possibly a amazing design of the building here by Alfred Waterhouse, the famous architect for Nice to Town Hall, City Hall.

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Amongst other things, and probably the other random example i've chosen is because most people will point to it.

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If you've asked them about art on the Underground Byeker Street, famous for Sherlock Holmes.

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Yeah, we have 2 profiles of homes who are almost guarding the beat.

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The London underground round, or with baker Street. So everywhere on the platforms on the backend line that there's a roundable you will see those 2 profiles of Sherlock Holmes and the typical of the

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kind of innovation and interest that the artists took in all of these artworks.

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If you look very carefully at the profiles you'll see they're made up of pixels like in a good old fashioned newspaper.

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What are those pixels? Well, let's look at the pipes here?

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The pixels are themselves the same profile of show up code, and you'll see these profiles in both black and red, scattered around the platform and in the tunnels leading to it so typical adopt a

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theme for a station, and then use that theme to decorate many parts of it.

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So those are 3 random examples. i've given you but what I want to do now is get a bit more orderly.

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I want to take a take a trip with you up the northern line from Waterloo.

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At the bottom of the screen up to Mornington Crescent, just the other side of Houston.

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At the top of the screen. i've used that kind of Harry Beck style that is on the famous London underground.

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Mac. Yeah, to show our progress and we're going from south to North from this famous line there's many people refer to this as the misery line.

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It's the oldest steep on the ground line in the world.

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It's showing is age in many respects but perhaps to compensate for that and the crowding on this particular line.

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It has been well population with ours, and every every one of these stations that we see here apart from Goose Street, has amazing art instructions.

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So starting, and Waterloo above the escalators you may know. just certainly the passengers going down.

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The escalators Don't change you have noticed you will see an elephant seems to have wrapped its body round its body through through the brick work.

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That very thick wall. with the pillar coming down between the 2 arches.

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What on earth is that elephant doing standing there? Could it run a mock at any stage?

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This is the big question. Well, let's take a closer look at it.

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It is made of a metal grid it's not alive.

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It is a mobile pretty much life size. and basically this model was created around about 2,000 by an artist called Kendra Haste check to celebrate the previous role of the Tower of London as the Keeper of

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the animals of London Zoo, when it was the royal zoom, and it was called the Town Managerie.

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Eventually in 1832, The crown gave these the the rights for the Zoom and these live animals to to the city of London and Regents Park.

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Zoom was created but In the year 2,000, they decided.

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The authorities decided to set up a replica of the zoom in the Moach of the Tower of London.

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Composed of models of all sorts of animals, and when that exhibition finished they put the models up for sale and Waterloo.

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Grant the elephants. Why? Because in Lambda, right next to Waterloo there was in the 18 hundreds the first circus ring in the world with performing elephants and other animals, and so elephants have a particular resonance for the

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history of Waterloo, and the history of the Lambus

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Then we will take one stop at a time We'll go north from Waterloo, underneath the river Thames, and come to Embankment Tube Station, which, by definition, it lies on the Embankment built in

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Victorian times, and when the train pulls into Embankments station on one of the deep platforms we are but almost blinded by the bright white of the victories and animal panels that close the the platform and the running

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lines. So here the northern line has this bright white covering on all of the walls.

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But isn't just playing right it's red blue and black and you wonder I wonder what this is all about?

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It. Certainly a lot of a lot of the stations seem to be very dark underground.

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This is absolutely not the case for the embankment, but this design is is carried across all of the platforms of this station, so it clearly has some key reference, and if you go to a passageway halfway between the deep platforms and

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the subsurface platforms. you will find yeah a display which brings together a whole set of other colors as well. green and yellow, just being added to the colors we've already seen.

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Here you can see how some of the work A. of the underground, The arch of the underground is signed and dated bottom.

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Right of this slide, Robin Denny in 1985, not 1,988.

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So I got in the past in the panel at the top.

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So this is a work of art by a very reputable artist, one of the young British artists of the time.

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But what is it about? What is it embankment about?

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Well, it was built to provide a roadway going east west through London.

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London was 2 over built to provide any kind of boole of all East West.

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The embankment was put in place for that purpose and it's also put in place to create a sewer that would intersect all of the sewage that comes from North London, and was hitherto dumped in

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the tents. So let's have a look from a v view a map from above.

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What is the situation of the Embankment? And here you see the river chams weeping around in that big arc.

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The big red blob top left is in Bankman Tube station that we're studying, and just to the north of it is Charing Cross and 4 underground lines going through in Bank Link.

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2 of them, which are going east, west, and 2 roughly north south, and that dotted gray line going around the north bank of the Thames, is the track of the intersect sewer, which mainly cured the

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horrific conditions and smell of the Thames in early Victorian times.

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So would Robin Denny create an artwork that was depicting sewage.

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Well, no, you may know the colors here, that turk or other correlate with the colors on the pattern that he's created on the walls.

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The range. not the red it's a ready brown the black the yellow, and the green.

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So if we go back to the platform in particular to that passageway with all of the colors, the black represents a northern line, the brown, the bakeroo, the green the district line, the yellow the circle line so add to that to add a bit more pizza he's added

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red for the trains for the cars. Originally it was mandated that all underground trains should be read clearly.

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Silver has prompted in a number of cases in the blue.

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The excuse for the blue is the river flowing by just outside these walls, so that's the clue Robin Denny's playing again with the colors of the underground lines as in Harry That's famous map and

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Then we come to Charing Cross and Charing Cross Vise, with Top and Court Road, as being the most exceptional for arts, with 2 major art installations, and the first, one if anybody says the walls of the underground are just

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full of adverts, point them at Charing Cross and the northern line.

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Here we have something which is. It was like a bayer tapestry.

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Feverish activity, creating something, and you may not be surprised to know we're creating here the cross but charing 1294.

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So it's over 200 years after the battle of Hastings celebrated in with via tapestry.

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But still a very ancient scene, and this is a woodcut prints that is being blown up to the size to fit the platform.

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All is one of the images on that scroll. scroll.

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They're all painted by David gentlemen one of the leading illustrators of London.

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For the past. Well, probably 70 years now. So on the right we see King Edward the First, with the one male of his surviving children, and who became a king of the second.

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Yeah, he's a chain and on the left hand side. We see a carver, a sculptor, who is chipping away at the stone to create a statue of King of the first wife.

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It was dyed tragically on a passage that she was taking through England, and he decided to have a crosses installed at every place where her body rested on its way back from Lincoln.

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Where she died. Just imagine how this carver, who we understand, is either Alexander Rabbit or John with cough.

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This being painted this this scene taking place just after she died, hey?

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That's the challenge of actually making this sculpture into the most beautiful woman in the world.

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But of reasonable likeness of Queen. And so this is an Ln.

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Across. And now, clearly, the location of this last of the crosses is charing across the cross in the district of Chari, in London,

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They're all want 3 others of the involved There are 3 original crosses still standing here on the left.

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We have Gettington cross, which is a third of the way home from Lincoln.

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All of those other crosses with the red dots have gone.

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But as we get towards London, Wolf and cross, that is an Ellen across, and that is essentially as created in 1294, well worth visiting when he when they got to London with the with the coffin they

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stopped to cheat side overnight, and then came through to the west.

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So the palace of Whitehall charing and they I don't know whether it's true, but they're supposed to stop just outside the Palace at channeling Now the Charing cross you may say it's still

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there. Well, no, it was destroyed, and then, rebuilt by the railway company in, wanted to use across as a symbol of the respectability of their station on their line.

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So here the old fated cross of Charing. This is an illustration with one of the passages of Charing Cross now sadly closed.

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But you can see the Puritans tearing down the cross after an ordinance of being passed, that the Parliamentary Committee for the demolition of monuments, a superstition on a dollar.

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3 it. they. They determined that this should be taken down

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This aerial view of the area at the bottom the photo shows to found the swear.

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You may make out nelson's column with Nelson on top, and then above that heading heading south.

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We've got the white hole going down to the top right towards Guards Parade.

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Now at the bottom the yellow arrow points to where the original Charing Cross stood.

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Replaced after the restitution of the monarchy, by Charles the Second, with an equestrian statue of his father.

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Sadly on that course. He is looking down White Hall to the Banqueting House.

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The top arrows, pointing to the bank. quitting house which was, where just outside.

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Charles the First had his head cut off so for the rest of time. Charles the First is having to look at where he was quite ironic.

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We've seen one major art installation and charing cross, the other is on the Baker blue line platforms, and reflects the fact that these platforms are underneath to how the spare itself and the national gallery and we

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take copies of the great works of the gallery to decorate the platforms, so you can enjoy the art without even having to go up the surface and into the gap.

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I just really on the platform they show you the facade of the 2 museums, in case you're in any confusion as to where you are, and imagine stepping out of a car on the underground on the

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Bakeroo line to be confronted by this picture.

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This is Venus on the left. This is Mars, the god of war.

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On the right, and between them you see some phones who are carrying away the lance of the god of war with Mars, the picture being depicted here by Sandra Boticelli is Venus, who offered her Favors

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too many gentlemen of mythical in mythical times.

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She spent a lot of time with Mars, and not so much time with her husband, and here they spend a wonderful night together.

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Unfortunately, Mars has fallen asleep from his labors, and Venus is distinctly unimpressed.

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So quite a comic scene, really, from the days of mess.

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By this famous artist, who's other work includes works on the on the Sistine Chapel in Rome.

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One of the early office of the Renaissance, even though it was pounding ricello.

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And here, in a rather simplified version of the painting above, we have the battle of San Romano as ever Florence was fighting.

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Wars constantly with Sienna it's main local rival neighbors always seem to fall

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We have to ventures in the National Gallery. This cartoon, which Da Vinci never actually translated, transferred into a full scale oil painting buttons.

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This was still was just under a 1 million pounds when we acquired it in 1962.

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So something a work of which the gallery is very proud.

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Quite rightly, and then we've seen a renaissance gallery, as part of the platform.

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Now we also see some later works and let's go here a section of his work, the upper Reaches of the Grand Canal, and quite interestingly, these aren't tourist John Dollars.

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These are working, gone through in the middle

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On here what should be a fierce tiger, but actually looks like a rather playful tiger in a tropical steam storm by the post Impressionist French artist on re research this when you see the full painting on the walls of

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the gallery is is somewhat more vital and vibrant, but still this is a shocking site to greet you as you step onto the platform

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And then we take some work from the National Portrait Gallery.

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In particular, we focus on the Tutor Gallery, which is on, I think, the second floor of the national portrait.

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Okay. So here in the Tuba Gallery, they have collected the best contemporary works of art which, by definition, give the best idea of what these figures actually look like.

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Here on on the wall. we've taken what were various sizes of paintings, many of them much smaller, and change them, resize them into this standard presentation.

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So it does give a much more coherent picture of the great personities of the Tudor era.

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And in particular, you look yeah, on the right here from the middle of the right, Henry the Seventh, and Richard the Third.

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These 2 great rivals, and the battle of Boswell Field really determined the outcome.

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For many centuries afterwards, of the monarchy, Richard the Third killed in the battle, and Henry the Seventh triumphant, and starting the Tudor rain.

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This: Yeah,

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Another example from the platform wall. a good comparison, really.

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And Berlin on the left, Lady Mary on the right, and

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It was one of the typical pictures really of a daughter a stepdaughter and a stepmother.

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We didn't exactly get on Lady Mary became Queen Mary the first seems to have that set resolve expression on her face.

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A very determined lady, so very much representative of her role in history. I'm.

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Getting away from the Tudors and the monarchs a little bit clearly.

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Here we have the gunpowder plaus of 16 o 5.

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Wishing to get rid of the particular monet James the first It wasn't doing enough to receive the Catholic faith.

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This picture is taken from a 4 inches by 6 inches.

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Yeah, which is on display in the gallery itself. So a very small display from a news sheet that was produced at the time, and I think this is a game one of the best representations of the real life characters that You see

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here. One of the delights, unfortunately, of the 2 of the arts is that it is sitting on working platforms and at one stage London underground put bitter baskets along the walls.

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And then, because of the terrorists right, decided to take them away.

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So on the right here you can see a white plaque covering the holes and not quite covering the words from litter, or maybe is a reflection of the people

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So moving on less to square centre of the entertainment world.

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In particular the film world. and here, on the piccadilly line, we pop across that for now travel on the northern, you'll see a plane bit of wall as a platform wall.

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But it is set out like part of a film strip, with pocket holes at the top.

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On the bottom either side of the film I'm being the biggest any line. the blue line on the Mac this procket holes are in blue scripts by the side of the real engines and by the ancients and

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the exits from the platform. we have This kind of arch which, gives you an insight into what you'll see above coming to see a film or walk around the West End.

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The bright knee on lights and the dark blue sky above.

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Of this great world of entertainment above so that's the picaddy line the northern line.

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Now we're traversing we have the same sprocket whole arrangement chop and bottom.

00:29:11.000 --> 00:29:26.000
But here in black to the normal line, and appropriately, we have adverts for films in within the zoom the budget of the film strip and the entrance is an exit.

00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:34.000
Here have a deco procedure marches, as you would find in the local cinemas, especially the Odion.

00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:43.000
So a very garish they kind of projection here

00:29:43.000 --> 00:29:57.000
On call road. Advise with charing crosses the start of this show this evening, and let's have a look at the kind of thing that we will see if you go down to the bottom of the escalators towards the central line

00:29:57.000 --> 00:30:08.000
you'll be confronted by this predominantly white wall with mosaic tiles all over it, and mosaic patterns in parts of it.

00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:21.000
So we have a butterfly that we have some fairly abstract pattern, and as we look through, we look through what looks like a round room to the passageway to the platform beyond.

00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:32.000
What's this all about? These are the works of Eduardo, pal? not see the foremost sculpture in England after the war, and very much.

00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:41.000
His his major work, I think, in London is in the 4 course of British Library, and it is a statue of eyes of Newton.

00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:47.000
But here another famous of his many works, not a famous one.

00:30:47.000 --> 00:30:57.000
And if we go into that circular room which is referred to as the rotunda, it happens to be just an old lift shaft, not used anymore.

00:30:57.000 --> 00:31:14.000
But we see this platform of mosaic pictures and here representative of some of the things you'd see on this site over the past centuries, like the cow on the farm that was here more recently a nineteen-six is style

00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:24.000
young man striding along and towards Carniv. Street potentially on the other side of the road.

00:31:24.000 --> 00:31:29.000
Chamber. we'll see some even more interesting images on the left hand side.

00:31:29.000 --> 00:31:36.000
We'll see the sputnik the Russian satellite, the first series of Russian Satellites on the right.

00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:44.000
We'll see the chicken from the farm We mentioned earlier, and how lots he has signed his work there on the bottom right of the image.

00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:50.000
I'm showing 1984

00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:56.000
The Sputnik 2 satellite, 1957 that we just seen in the rotunda.

00:31:56.000 --> 00:32:00.000
Yeah, I just blowing up the painting together closer.

00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:07.000
Look at it, with sun shields. His power shields either side, but perhaps more romantically.

00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:12.000
We see like a you know, that yellow circle, the box to higher it.

00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:18.000
Unlike it was the dog that the Russians put up there to see whether or not life could be sustained.

00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:23.000
At the time the story was, and it did survive for 7 days.

00:32:23.000 --> 00:32:33.000
There was no plan to get it back sadly now. we think that was a bit of Russian propaganda, and he died within 4 h.

00:32:33.000 --> 00:32:42.000
I'll take off. So here is that one of the bright chicken, which seems to have some mechanical innards to it.

00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:53.000
So now let's see playing with the structure this creature but now let's look at the platforms and cells on the central line.

00:32:53.000 --> 00:33:06.000
The platforms are this a part of the platforms. A central plants are covered in normal zones, very bright on the central line side. less so on the northern line, and

00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:15.000
It is quite an amazing display. in particular. some of the objects are quite easy to diagnose.

00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:27.000
Here we have saxophones, and they represent Tin Pan Alley, which is the music district of London, just above

00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:34.000
Yeah. Another view of the same platform showing how the mosaics go right up to the top of the vault.

00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:43.000
The top of the tunnel, so it's an amazing scale of work that was done here.

00:33:43.000 --> 00:33:49.000
Other pictures I tend to see. This is an an image which would be saved from the beetles.

00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:58.000
A yellow submarine, and the kind of Monty part python style of representation, intention.

00:33:58.000 --> 00:34:02.000
And here parallel, she has chosen a design of an African mask.

00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:12.000
Again as an excuse for a brightly colored display on the platform wall.

00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:16.000
Yeah, in Chopin Court Road, all in line.

00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:22.000
We see, as I say, rather muted colors from this rather vicious a lime green.

00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:30.000
But this is all totally abstract. so maybe not as interesting assessing detail.

00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:48.000
And when we look down the platform in this particular point, we can also see passageway between the 2 platforms of the northern line, which has a pure black and white display in it, with my zones

00:34:48.000 --> 00:35:03.000
Absolute shot wave went through the world of London culture and i'm not i'm, not over emphasizing the situation when with the building of cross rail going through very close to the within inches of these platform tunnels

00:35:03.000 --> 00:35:14.000
let's see that these particular platforms would have to be straight back to their to their core, and all of these mosaics would be lost.

00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:21.000
Huge protests from the literatureology, the culture of the country of the London.

00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:32.000
But in particular, and in the end transfer for them, then spent 1.3 million, taking all of these off tile by tile, Tester Ii.

00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:38.000
And then cleaning them up and putting them back again

00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:45.000
And then we've looked at the middle level of the passageways and the rotten, the platforms and cells.

00:35:45.000 --> 00:36:01.000
But coming back up to the surface with Crosswell, we have a complete expanded station, with entrances like this on top and court load, all to a daycore defined by Daniel Buren, one of the chop

00:36:01.000 --> 00:36:09.000
artists from France. for doing this kind of style. Work is kind of decor, so very simple. Black and white.

00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:16.000
Stripes and circles, and damonds, or other geometric shapes?

00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:20.000
Is this: Would you recognize? This is Daniel Bureau If you knew his work?

00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:35.000
You absolutely would. This is Daniel buren's work at the Paneling Royal in Paris, right next to the Louvre, you see, is installed even more columns, so I add to the columns of this

00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:42.000
ancient building, and you've covered these columns with the black and white strip stones.

00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:48.000
These are not chunks of Black Ball Rock. These are meant to be a respectful but additional feature.

00:36:48.000 --> 00:37:08.000
So this hold the area of colonies. Here, on the central line and crossroad rails side of the station, we have a rather more colorful set of geometric shapes, so which I think really brings alive.

00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:23.000
What would previously being very confined, and dark spaces and under Charing crossroad between those 2 entrances, there's now a vast concourse where they even have a little display case on the right it's not

00:37:23.000 --> 00:37:31.000
a display case from the crucial salts. This is a display case for the designs of Daniel Buren.

00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:39.000
You must be laughing all the way to the bank with the with the money he would adopt from this commission.

00:37:39.000 --> 00:37:45.000
Or in street, is now next stop. Warren was the name of a famous lady who lived there.

00:37:45.000 --> 00:38:00.000
But when we come to art we don't necessarily have to have pictures depicting the figure not very famous, why don't we have a play on loads, as we often do on the Victoria line?

00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:16.000
Yeah, Victoria on platforms. And basically, apart from having a rabbit warrant, we have amazed the traditional maze in 3 seat recess on the platforms, and more cunningness on the part of the

00:38:16.000 --> 00:38:20.000
artist design to be a 4 min puzzle.

00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:26.000
Thanks for me just to solve your way to find your way from the to the center.

00:38:26.000 --> 00:38:32.000
Trains come in every 2 min, so unless you want to let trains go by.

00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:38.000
You'll never be able to solve this puzzle

00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:49.000
Strangely give them. The London underground spain an enormous amount of money and advertising on convincing is all enabling.

00:38:49.000 --> 00:38:54.000
It's also navigate easily around the underground the map to the signage, and so forth.

00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:58.000
They love art, which shows mazes and labyrinth.

00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:06.000
So in 2,000 1,350 years of the London underground, they decide to get, not volunteer.

00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:15.000
Another famous young British artist to produce 270 different labyrinths, only 2 foot by 2 feet panel.

00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:33.000
And so there's one of these on every station, in the network The number one station here is in chess, and they're all numbered, as you see bottom right on the tablet, one out of 270 thanks the obvious

00:39:33.000 --> 00:39:43.000
question with what the last one, and it is on the last one built. he's throw terminal 5 before we get into the new generation.

00:39:43.000 --> 00:39:48.000
Now further stations, and I don't think they're going to carry the labyrinth forward.

00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:56.000
And all these numbers just chronological. No, these are numbered in the sequence.

00:39:56.000 --> 00:40:00.000
That is the optimum sequence to trying to break the record.

00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:08.000
The Guinness World record, traveling through every station of the Underground in the minimum time, something like 16 h.

00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:17.000
So be guided by the numbers, if you're going to take tackle that particular record, and you can share with the picture of all the platform.

00:40:17.000 --> 00:40:23.000
And the access points to the platform that's the typical quite difficult to find.

00:40:23.000 --> 00:40:39.000
Sometimes scale and location of the labyrinth, and then we come to Houston, the main line station, and a very busy underground station beneath.

00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:48.000
And here, going down to we on the Northern line platforms, and we have this rather spectacular set of colors.

00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:52.000
Any authentic. Yes, yes, I think this is.

00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:59.000
This is using the Pete Mondrian styling of blocks of color as modern arts.

00:40:59.000 --> 00:41:13.000
You may have been but the colors and these blue and white battles, diagonals the meaning of them is I'm absolutely important to the reason for that being here.

00:41:13.000 --> 00:41:17.000
These are the colors of a coach of arms, a royal coat of arms.

00:41:17.000 --> 00:41:27.000
Henry Charles Fitz Roy. he became the Earl of Houston, and hence the naming of the station.

00:41:27.000 --> 00:41:35.000
Here. he's not the only name fitz roy He was given land around the station, but before the station existed.

00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:40.000
Clearly. This is the time of Charles the Second, which is now called Fitzerovia.

00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:48.000
So you see how these names all tie together. This blue and white bachelor was interesting.

00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:58.000
The bill. My baton basically says this may be a royal coat of arms, but this is an illegitimate successor and illuminate member of the family.

00:41:58.000 --> 00:42:10.000
Charles a Second had no legitimate children. and therefore, all of his many children from many mistresses. We're given this styling on their arms.

00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:17.000
No something to be not a slur on the character of the gentleman in the days of Charles the Second.

00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:25.000
Anything goes in those days, and here it's interesting just to follow that theme through a little bit.

00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:29.000
So, Charles a Second. on the left we have his favorite mysteries.

00:42:29.000 --> 00:42:39.000
Barbara Villiers on the right, who was herself given various titles, and then in the picture in the middle we have Henry Charles F.

00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:48.000
Roy was given lines in the estate of Houston, in the village of Houston, just south of Cambridge.

00:42:48.000 --> 00:42:54.000
That's where the name Houston comes from Bob Ravilius is interesting.

00:42:54.000 --> 00:43:03.000
She was given the title Duchess of Cleveland, and as part of Marriages, but she was also called Baroness Non.

00:43:03.000 --> 00:43:21.000
Such, which is quite interesting, because later in their relationship, when the gambling debts of Barbara Villas were getting beyond countenance, Charles the Second gave her non such palace a great palace in yep some which he had

00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:28.000
to get had built by Henry the Eighth. so

00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:41.000
This palace was given to to bob rebellious i've heard by a gambling dance, and then she couldn't sell the palace, so she knocked it down and sold the contents and cold fairness, non

00:43:41.000 --> 00:43:54.000
such because of that time. So this area you could call a baroness hard out very much a coloration to the figure in Cinderella.

00:43:54.000 --> 00:44:04.000
So. from all of that story we do at least have a very beautifully and brightly licked and colored platform.

00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:15.000
After our long journeys from the North into Houston, and traveling almost the other great art work at Houston Bridge on work in my terms.

00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:22.000
Is that very simple diagram you can see of the Houston Arch, a great arch.

00:44:22.000 --> 00:44:30.000
We used to form the entrance to Houston station, but was cruelly, and in my terms criminally destroyed.

00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:39.000
In a modernization program when they rebuilt the Houston station in the 19 sixtys.

00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:45.000
Why is that so horrible a thing to happen i'm sure many of you know the story?

00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:52.000
But first of all, why why have this kind of arch at the entrance to Houston?

00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:58.000
Well, they decided to copy the entrance to the Acropolis in ancient Greece.

00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:04.000
In these days. The entrance you can see at the bottom here, called the propellant

00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:07.000
These days it's lost in ruth and various other parts of it.

00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:14.000
But basically it looked like the Houston arch. rather more complicated and rather deeper set.

00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:22.000
But this is the design of a Purple am but it's the entrance from the Egyptian, sorry from the Greek origin.

00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:30.000
Original version to a sacred place, and why would you still be called a sacred place?

00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:36.000
Well, it's the first main line station in the capital city in the world.

00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:51.000
So if that isn't worth celebrating mornings and here was a rather sign on up cleared view. all they used to Arch when it was first built.

00:45:51.000 --> 00:46:03.000
1839. These are very early days and the door account she's in the middle as you see it doesn't actually have arches.

00:46:03.000 --> 00:46:08.000
It has that flat so top to it, with then a pediment above.

00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:15.000
Pavilions on the side for doing various functional tasks, and between the columns the arms.

00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:30.000
You can see the railway building and both beyond so I absolutely grand entrance to this famous innovative a bit of modern industry.

00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:40.000
I'm when it was deemed that the rebuilding of Houston would not need for it to be pulled down, because now it'd be halfway down platform.

00:46:40.000 --> 00:46:46.000
6. they move the whole station when they modernized it the protests that we weren't saving it.

00:46:46.000 --> 00:46:53.000
If, if by moving it fine. Benjamin was saying that the British Constitution collapsed.

00:46:53.000 --> 00:46:59.000
If we were so careless and salute, lose such a great asset?

00:46:59.000 --> 00:47:07.000
Have No; The great architectural critic after the war of England is word sublime.

00:47:07.000 --> 00:47:10.000
Proud as grandiose. Is anything the Greeks the company?

00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:17.000
Yeah. but clearly the competitors of the line out of Houston.

00:47:17.000 --> 00:47:30.000
Were pretty scathing the great Western Row I costly offensive, full of pretension, and who's done all of that Gothic work in the House of Parliament and elsewhere.

00:47:30.000 --> 00:47:37.000
Hey, look to go of this travels and swift, and and saw it as a scene from Rob Digg. thing.

00:47:37.000 --> 00:47:47.000
Nag uproar, making people feel like ants.

00:47:47.000 --> 00:47:57.000
Anyway. the yeah, the arch was destroyed a other countries. don't seem to get rid of their great monuments.

00:47:57.000 --> 00:48:03.000
Yeah, but Berlin is in particular treasure the propellant.

00:48:03.000 --> 00:48:08.000
You see the similarities here to the proper am of the Eternal.

00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:19.000
And despite everything that happens in Berlin over the past 200 plus years that is still revered, and everywhere it is the iconic gamble of both.

00:48:19.000 --> 00:48:25.000
In. we conclude our trip up the northern line at Mornington.

00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:33.000
Present, which, for many a reason, is somewhere my treasure

00:48:33.000 --> 00:48:38.000
We'll see a couple of the reasons why when we look at the the surrounds.

00:48:38.000 --> 00:48:48.000
The station, because here we have a big Bjou little station, one of the smallest stations in Central London on the left hand side.

00:48:48.000 --> 00:48:56.000
One of those 7 bunch look across the road.

00:48:56.000 --> 00:49:12.000
The Hampshire road. From there, on the right hand side, you see a very strange building, which looks a bit like like an Egyptian art decade temple, and is absolutely models on that type of building.

00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:22.000
It is a cigarette factory, the career as factory as built, and that factory replaced a set of gardens.

00:49:22.000 --> 00:49:34.000
That tree is one of one of the few salutations to the original, peaceful scene here, with a beautiful set of gardens on the right hand side.

00:49:34.000 --> 00:49:41.000
So what is the story? Well, morning, to increase this is part of Mornington.

00:49:41.000 --> 00:49:50.000
Presence. it's behind what is now the career as factory which is now called Greater London House, is an office building, a very sumptuous one.

00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:55.000
But Mornington Crescent is still there, the present of Georgian houses.

00:49:55.000 --> 00:50:04.000
In 4 h which go around the great be making one great arch around the back of that factory building.

00:50:04.000 --> 00:50:17.000
Bills in the 18 twenties i'm facing onto this beautiful garden, with its trees and its grass

00:50:17.000 --> 00:50:28.000
It wasn't quite a high profile presence of georgetown houses, a very, very smart place to live, and you can see some of the decoration here.

00:50:28.000 --> 00:50:33.000
The rustication of this ground floor with the stuck of

00:50:33.000 --> 00:50:39.000
The railings in front of it. go up to the first floor, the piano noble A.

00:50:39.000 --> 00:50:48.000
And we have some beautiful roles, iron, a standard pattern that goes right around all 4 sections of the crescent.

00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:53.000
So this was a very fine place to live through the Victorian period.

00:50:53.000 --> 00:51:02.000
Until we comes to the twentieth century, when suddenly, bang!

00:51:02.000 --> 00:51:14.000
On top of the gardens we find this huge factory, which completely dwarfs and obliterates the view of the crescent of Georgian houses.

00:51:14.000 --> 00:51:20.000
With this yellow line, and, as you can see, they are looking at the back of a factory building.

00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:23.000
No, no, Egypt should not deco styling.

00:51:23.000 --> 00:51:32.000
Here we leave that to the main facade where we're proclaiming, Oh, hello! Artistic and culture!

00:51:32.000 --> 00:51:42.000
We are as a cigarette company so what happens let's have a look at the sequence of events.

00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:49.000
Yeah, what I call stages of blind of this area. So if you look on the right hand side in yellow.

00:51:49.000 --> 00:52:05.000
I've got a little block with 1 1822, which is when the present started to be built in sections, and then it sits there looking across these gardens and the gardens beyond with that number 5 on them

00:52:05.000 --> 00:52:11.000
living there quite happily. Well, actually, only for 15 years, because bottom right?

00:52:11.000 --> 00:52:31.000
Event Number 2, 1837, the building of Houston, and the lines coming out of Houston, solving some of the back gardens of the Creation, and we have state engines belching spoke smoke across the back gardens

00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:37.000
of the buildings. Here the questions, Linda, and item, 3 top left hand corner.

00:52:37.000 --> 00:52:46.000
We have the arrival of that little Oxford Ring Tube station which no doubt was one of the attractions for building a factory.

00:52:46.000 --> 00:52:54.000
Here. people will be able to come here to work. And they did from all across London, using the tube network.

00:52:54.000 --> 00:53:00.000
I should number 4 event number 4 in 1928.

00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:06.000
The owner of the free hold of the gardens, fed up with the residents of the present.

00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:11.000
Not the Jews for the lease and the use of the gardens.

00:53:11.000 --> 00:53:27.000
And he said, right i'm gonna sell them thank you Anyway, with the money, and this building was constructed huge out pouring of anger across London a bit like the destruction of the power.

00:53:27.000 --> 00:53:30.000
See new mosaics and such an outcry.

00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:44.000
Questions in the house. in 1931 up, an act was passed which protected 100 other squares and presence in London.

00:53:44.000 --> 00:53:52.000
So mornings and crescent died, such that all of those other green spaces in London could survive flourish.

00:53:52.000 --> 00:54:02.000
Launching the Shangaan. Possibly, but the owners, no doubt many of them would have been looking to sell them for a nice profit.

00:54:02.000 --> 00:54:18.000
So a side story. But Let's just as we come towards the end of this, sure from Waterloo up to mornings and present that at least celebrate the finest art deco building in London.

00:54:18.000 --> 00:54:24.000
Even finer to me than on the Western Avenue or the Hoover.

00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:32.000
The old Hoover factory. This is such a beautiful rendition, and well care for rendition of Egyptian or deco.

00:54:32.000 --> 00:54:38.000
From that curves concave con corners at the top through to the black cat.

00:54:38.000 --> 00:54:54.000
It's a symbol of the Careers company it's the image taking through into one of its major brands the columns decorated in Egyptian plants with papyrus, and so forth, and various

00:54:54.000 --> 00:55:04.000
pipe colors of patterns of typing on the entrance on the left hand side, and to the Egyptian feline goddesses guarding the entrance.

00:55:04.000 --> 00:55:12.000
You may just be able to see that

00:55:12.000 --> 00:55:15.000
So we come to the end of our session today.

00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:18.000
This is a chip of the iceberg.

00:55:18.000 --> 00:55:32.000
It does. take me 20 h on my main course on The art of the London underground, and we cover many many parts of London's history, and the famous people that are passed through this great city.

00:55:32.000 --> 00:55:36.000
You may well be able to guess. This is heathron terminals.

00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:42.000
1, 2, 3, which was the home of Concord, and these are Concord tail things.

00:55:42.000 --> 00:56:01.000
But so with that with that I will conclude and so my sharing the screen such that we can feel any questions may have arisen, and I hope you aren't giddy from that very rapid tour Thank

00:56:01.000 --> 00:56:09.000
you very much, Mike. That was brilliant okay, i'm just gonna launch into some questions. So now people want to keep them coming in for the time being. That's great.

00:56:09.000 --> 00:56:22.000
No, i'm gonna start from the top no there was one question we back when you were talking about the Eleanor crosses, and we have a a question from Helen.

00:56:22.000 --> 00:56:27.000
She had always thought that Queen Elena died in Harvey, which is a small village in Nottinghamshire.

00:56:27.000 --> 00:56:33.000
There is a chantry chapel that was built there and a primary school called the Eleanor School.

00:56:33.000 --> 00:56:37.000
I don't know whether that's something that you know anything about

00:56:37.000 --> 00:56:44.000
No, it's not. Perhaps I haven't gone back enough in in terms of my researches.

00:56:44.000 --> 00:56:47.000
But I will certainly look at that, and thank you very much for that.

00:56:47.000 --> 00:57:00.000
. good, interesting, Okay, great. Now let's have a look. No, he was quite an important question, and this couple of comments to sort of supplement it as well.

00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:07.000
And questions from Francesca are there any art works by female artists on the line or elsewhere in the network.

00:57:07.000 --> 00:57:15.000
And We've got a couple of comments, and I think Lisa saying, hold on seconds. No, elizabeth.

00:57:15.000 --> 00:57:22.000
Nope, Nope, Lisa. She thinks this one, and by have a Phillipson somewhere on the network.

00:57:22.000 --> 00:57:30.000
And Chris suggesting that there is some tracy eman aren't work at some pointress.

00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:35.000
Yes, let me go through that there's a there's a large number.

00:57:35.000 --> 00:57:43.000
Okay. works by women. Why, women artists. We saw Kensington with the animals there when

00:57:43.000 --> 00:58:01.000
Mary Wooden was a young Rca student but one artist i'm just starting for a name has done 3 or 4, including Finsbury Park balloons floating down the platform which is

00:58:01.000 --> 00:58:19.000
an amazing creation. and to me represents reflects the fact that the first manned flight took place from Finsbury, and by balloon, by how hydrogen balloon in in 1794 so

00:58:19.000 --> 00:58:24.000
There are a number of other ladies, especially in the 1980 S.

00:58:24.000 --> 00:58:32.000
And ninetys. There was some quite large programs of work done on art, and a lot of the artists were women.

00:58:32.000 --> 00:58:40.000
So yeah, they are well represented in this work. Okay, Tracy, I mean.

00:58:40.000 --> 00:58:47.000
Yes, she's done some have a her neon writing all over the the main engine sheet.

00:58:47.000 --> 00:58:53.000
Oh, by the clock at the end of some bank was station I don't think she's done anything on the underground.

00:58:53.000 --> 00:59:02.000
Okay, right. no, we've got no question this is maybe quite a difficult one for you.

00:59:02.000 --> 00:59:09.000
Which is your favorite station You've got quite a lot to choose from

00:59:09.000 --> 00:59:17.000
That is, from Catalan. she's asking my favorite station is probably Tom and Court Road.

00:59:17.000 --> 00:59:26.000
Because we have one of england's greatest artists on on the platform levels.

00:59:26.000 --> 00:59:39.000
We have one of France's greatest awesome design designers now in the new cross rail, and and clearly it's been expanded vastly. so.

00:59:39.000 --> 00:59:49.000
Now it is a fabulous station to use, whereas in the old days you know, it was pretty pretty tough, and the getting very, very tired.

00:59:49.000 --> 00:59:55.000
But but I think Sharon Cross runs it a close second.

00:59:55.000 --> 01:00:09.000
Okay, Alright, let me have a little look see if we have any other questions, cause I think I think everybody's been so fascinated by what you've been showing them today that we don't have huge numbers. of questions.

01:00:09.000 --> 01:00:20.000
But let me have a little look. Lots of those comments that i'm going to pass on to tomorrow, mike and interesting comments.

01:00:20.000 --> 01:00:26.000
Oh, this is quite an interesting one. Comment actually rather than the question that's just come in.

01:00:26.000 --> 01:00:40.000
But maybe something that you're able to maybe talk a little bit about in terms of cocktail and Court Roads and Jacqueline saying that this story a theater was demolished to make way for the expansion of the station

01:00:40.000 --> 01:00:46.000
there I don't know if that's something that you you have some knowledge about.

01:00:46.000 --> 01:01:04.000
Yes, totally, and the whole city block was destroyed on the corner of Oxford Street and Charing Cross Road, and right down to the Astoria, which had become a very popular mainstream music Venue and Club, and could seat and I think

01:01:04.000 --> 01:01:10.000
it's up to 2,000 people. so it was quite a lost to the London entertainment world.

01:01:10.000 --> 01:01:22.000
But we also lost Charing Crossroad for about 3 years, while we built that big concourse underneath it, and it was pretty chaotic trying to get around that that area of London.

01:01:22.000 --> 01:01:33.000
But now now we will have the benefit of that I could I could make a little comments about how we compare with other countries in this respect.

01:01:33.000 --> 01:01:38.000
If there aren't any yeah that would be really interesting, actually. Yes, go ahead. Okay.

01:01:38.000 --> 01:01:56.000
Well, My one of my most popular courses is the art of the Paris Metro, and they not only to have great art on their platforms, which is very much part of the tourist offering, and they're never very to aggrandize the wonderful

01:01:56.000 --> 01:02:05.000
city of Paris. and they publicize it with publications by the Metro, by the Sncf.

01:02:05.000 --> 01:02:09.000
Whereas we tend not to we're still waiting for me to write the book.

01:02:09.000 --> 01:02:18.000
I think one of my also very populous course, used to be on the art of the Moscow metro metro.

01:02:18.000 --> 01:02:24.000
But for some strange reason nobody wants to celebrate the Moscow, Metro and the St.

01:02:24.000 --> 01:02:30.000
Petersburg, Metro at the moment, for reasons I can totally understand

01:02:30.000 --> 01:02:36.000
But also you look around the world, every city with a Metro.

01:02:36.000 --> 01:02:44.000
Apart from one or 2 exceptions, uses all of that blank wall space to create art and to create decoration.

01:02:44.000 --> 01:02:49.000
And I could show you great work from such places as as

01:02:49.000 --> 01:03:00.000
Wine as aries. is a particular fantastic one rio de Janeiro, and also pyongyang wonderful underground, which I haven't.

01:03:00.000 --> 01:03:07.000
I've been to myself, but you can actually I have actually got pictures of propaganda all over.

01:03:07.000 --> 01:03:12.000
The Metro that's missing i've actually got another question here for you and Mike.

01:03:12.000 --> 01:03:19.000
This is from david's he's asking is the program of art on the underground continuing will there be more works to see.

01:03:19.000 --> 01:03:23.000
And is that a source to help us identify the arts as we go round the tube?

01:03:23.000 --> 01:03:42.000
Right. The Underground arts has developed in fits and star 7 ever since the 19 sixties, when the Victoria Line, which was built in such a cheap, commercially driven way, they felt they had to live in it up a bit so every

01:03:42.000 --> 01:03:48.000
station on the Victoria line has a work of our an appropriate work of art.

01:03:48.000 --> 01:03:51.000
But then there was some in the eighties, some in the nineties, and so forth.

01:03:51.000 --> 01:04:03.000
But every time we have any difficulty with the economy or with the finances of transport for London, we tend to stop whatever program is ongoing.

01:04:03.000 --> 01:04:07.000
As an example, the London over overground, as great works of art.

01:04:07.000 --> 01:04:15.000
And there was a concerted program at the beginning to put on a whole range of stations on London overground.

01:04:15.000 --> 01:04:24.000
And the guy that was running it from a well, very much from a management point of view at the time.

01:04:24.000 --> 01:04:38.000
The early 2 thousands with somebody you May not have heard of Then i'll send something called Boris Johnson, and when he went to Hamststead Station to open the art of the overground he committed to a program of

01:04:38.000 --> 01:04:48.000
art going right across the overground. And after that time another 2 art installations were created and no more.

01:04:48.000 --> 01:04:52.000
Okay because of the usual problems of inadequate finance.

01:04:52.000 --> 01:05:00.000
And are there other priorities? Okay? Well, I think that's about it for for us today?

01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:02.000
Thanks very much for that bike that was really fascinating.

01:05:02.000 --> 01:05:21.000
Some fabulous images as well, and I'm sure and we've all at some time, or another rushed through the underground, and just never taken the time to look around us I'm guilty of that I have to say!

00:00:08.000 --> 00:00:13.000
Michael is an honorary fellow of the University of Lester.

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He has written over 30 books and articles on a range of themes within the area of modern history, his special fields being European and Chinese history.

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In addition to university teaching in the Uk. he has lectured in France, Germany, Russia, and Australia, and a regular participant at international conferences.

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He has also frequently appeared on television as a talking head in a series of history documentaries.

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So welcome to you, Michael, and I think without any further ado.

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I shall just hand straight over to you. Thank you very much. if I just take this off.

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Got it. well welcome everyone. as fiona said we're dealing today with the most extraordinary woman. One of the outstanding features of the twentieth century.

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Indeed factorism. The ideology to which she gave her name is still highly relevant to modern politics.

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So today, I thought I'm trying to give some of the the essence of Mrs.

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Thatcher as an individual in government. there are so many aspects of the her career.

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We could concentrate on but i'll i'll select some specifics which I think give I hope will give a rounded picture of her.

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I think the first thing point i'd make about her is that she was very much an outsider in the political world to which he contributed.

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Indeed, before she became leader of the Conservative party.

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If you would, said, This is the type of leader who will emerge in the late seventies I don't think many people would have believed you a woman.

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It. A woman who led a would come to leave a traditional party.

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Some would even say a reactionary party and that she would hold office as Prime Minister for over a decade.

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So 15 years leading a party and over a decade leading a government That is extraordinary.

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And I stress that because one of the things that about her was that she didn't advance the cause of feminism, some of the sisters in the movement said she, wasn't a good feminist well, that's their point of view

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I just suggest that it is extraordinary that a woman could have done what she did in that period because she did it.

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We now take it for granted we look back. and Oh, yes, or not became a woman who led government at a party led government.

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But that is so unlikely before it actually happened so that's the first point i'd stress she is remarkable as a woman in dominating a party that was traditionally wholly male dominant orientated and then

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leading a government which no woman had ever done before. Certainly in Britain there are individual ladies around the world.

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This is Bandra Nayaka for example in old Salon, but the idea of a woman leading a government in England, Britain.

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It's truly remarkable, and I think that's the point I i'd stress at the very beginning.

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She is a very unusual person, and a Betty on a very unusual performing some very unusual activities.

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Well, let me share some slides with you. We can make our points in regard to this as we go through the that should now show you Mrs.

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Thatcher tb w I was going to ask what you think those letters stand for, but I won't because it's slightly rude.

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But I better tell you that bloody woman, and that was the 3 letter reference that her own colleagues gave her when she was in government.

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She was so so much a presence, even she wasn't there Physically they felt her presence, and they referred to her, I mean, half disparagingly and half an admiringly.

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Has that Bloody woman you couldn't ignore her whether she was there or not, and I've subtitled the the talk Britain's most successful revolutionary, which may seem a strange claim given that she was a

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conservative. I think most commentators now do agree that she did revolutionize British politics.

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We try to make that point as we go through there's a picture of receptionary, not the everyone based on the keg of our concept isn't it, but it makes this point, Margaret Thatcher a very revolutionary

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and then this statement, which I read in the great biography that Charles moore's written 3 volume biography, and he said, and I think it's a very good line to pick up on her true

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significance lies in. not what she did but in what she was, and I think that's very powerfully put and very pertinently put It goes back to a book he said just now about her being a woman in a

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man's world, and what she represented culturally internationally politically, is so significant.

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Leader party Prime Minister. Extraordinary period with as we said I don't think anybody could have foreseen that least of all herself.

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This is one of the remarkable things she was interviewed on children's television, I think, in the middle seventys one of the one of the children asked her.

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Would she ever be a prime minister? she'd all know I don't think we'll ever see a lady as Prime Minister in my time.

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Now. she may have been self-facing but I think she meant it, and it made perfect sense at the time that she said it.

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One couldn't foresee this why did it happen then Well, you'd have to say from the negative there wasn't anybody that could match her within the Conservative party that when Ted heath had gone having failed in his

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period of government. there really was no body that could match her potential, and I think most of the old guard in the conservative party saw her as an interim. A stop gap will let her run for a bit.

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And then we'll get back to the realize that once she was in.

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She would stay in for 15 years as a leader, and then extraordinarily, of course, becoming a Prime Minister.

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Now I put this Cartoon in I think it's brilliant cartoons, say so much you could write the history of so much of of Britain.

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Indeed of the world through cartoons. and this shows

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A police put at the door of Mrs. thatcher's house? she's he's asking did you get a good look at the man who stole your clothes and round the corner is Tony Blair dressed as Mrs.

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T I, while that's amusing It also makes a very profound point, that what followed Mrs.

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Thatcher was Blairism. it's a John made interlude, of course, but Blairism is essentially a restatement of so many of the thatcherite principles that she had laid down and that's not just an

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observation from outside Tony Blair himself, and then Gordon Brown the other.

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Later late they believed they both acknowledged their debt to her that she had changed the face of politics in in ways which we we can example as we go.

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Through. but I think it it is well worth stressing that that the 2 labour leaders who followed acknowledge that she had prepared the way for them in an extraordinary way.

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Politics are never the same. Indeed, Blairism some would say is factorism.

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It's a second phase of thatcherism which is remarkable point of view, which is to say that the labor party modified itself in the light of what she had done in her years in office just a few pictures here to give us

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an impression of the young lady that she was rather prim on the right hand side.

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Quite a nice smile. On our left there there's a sweet picture of her.

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I I did a book on British history. a textbook for schools. actually, and I wanted to put on the cover a rather nice picture of her, and the publisher said, No, no, no, no, they won't do you've got to show her

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looking grim because that's that's the public memory of her.

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So I did exceed to that in the end we didn't put on at all, and we put a picture of her after scarle on the front, which may be something to climb down.

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But to see where we are going from there. she had a scientific background and a number of writers, including, say, our main biographer, say she's unusual in that sense, most party leaders most Prime Ministers excuse

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me in Britain. came from a legal or an artistic background.

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Very few scientists and she is exceptional in that regard and it's more than just an oddity.

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Some would say that her understanding of the world as It was came from a practical interpretation that came from her scientific training, which is mentoring thought to to dwell upon

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I've listed them and down all of these now i've just listed there.

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The main features of her Korea as she rose from quite humble origins in Lincoln cheer. In Grantham a father was a grocer.

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She lived over the shop. and she rose through our own efforts to get to Oxford. and you got a scholarship to go to opposite, read chemistry and law there.

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Very good background, really, for someone's gonna live in the world in the way that she did so.

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She trains as a lawyer after her training as a scientist, a chemist Stand Conservative candidate.

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I remember that from my very youthful days I remember standing and losing a in in our local constituency.

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In darted. she marries into a rich inheritance, as it were, and to become the wife of a millionaire, which gave her a great boost, of course, in financial terms.

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And it was said that, the husband, or she said the husband was her great support in a way that Churchill's wife had been a great support to him.

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Interesting idea that the fella, the man could be supported in the way that Clementine Churchill had been to Churchill.

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Interesting notion that isn't it in 53 just for detail here that might interest you.

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She gave birth to twins by Cesarean section.

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If one is interested in that regard. It wasn't that she was just too posh to push it was that she was advised.

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It was the best method of the safest method of her giving birth.

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Just a detail becomes Mp. potentially right it up under the heat. Administration becomes a Minister State secret state for educate and science.

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It was then that she gained me sobri Kate of Milk Snatcher, Margaret Thatcher, milk snatcher.

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The opposition forces used to chant because she she took away fee milk from the over 11.

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I think it was something which he didn't ever quite get over, although she said she was simply put into into into action.

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The policy had already been prepared. She was simply implementing what what the Civil Service was already prepared for her.

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Well becomes leader in 75 after heates defeat in the symptoms for election.

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And it's as much dissatisfaction with him as as her popularity at that point that gives her the the promotion to leader.

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It's not that she's welcomed and embraced in that sense.

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It's simply there isn't anybody else around at the time is there?

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And she went with that for long will She that that's a sort of thinking in the Conservative party in 75.

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But once she was in, she was such a dumb personality that she made it very difficult for others to challenge her.

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So her forceful character came through now it's often said about her that she had no sense of humor, and that, and that it's a part of her doerness and her a deep sense of resolution, and purpose.

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And there may be something in that. I did meet her briefly.

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And she seemed very charming and very easy to amuse.

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I thought, anyway, that's that's got to not go down that road, and it becomes a very powerful force within the party.

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I to what you're still party lead it's what you became Prime Minister.

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She toured parts of Europe, and she knew something about the Soviet Union already.

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And she made a famous What? What became an infamous speech in 1978

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When she attacked Soviet Communism and said that they tant the policy that the West had been following really since the days of Khrushchev and Kennedy that Dayton was dangerous because the Soviet Union was still

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a force for evil in the world, and it's at that point that the Red Star, the newspaper in the Soviet Union, gave her the the title, The and Lady, which was meant to be very damaging to her But in fact as

00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:45.000
her adviser, said: Market, This is a marvelous moment for you to embrace that title because it can define you.

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It can define your policies. if I can show you a little clip of this.

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Only a few seconds of it, just to give you the flavor of her arrival.

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Yeah, I hope this will come alive Zoom van from

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I stand before you tonight in my red star shift on evening down

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Face softly made up on my hair. gently wave the Iron Lady of the Western world.

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Well that's just a little clip whoops.

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I need to switch that off. Excuse me the principles of Dayton, and said that we were ignoring the danger.

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Sorry about that. that's a clip by the way if you wish to follow.

00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:13.000
Leave this up There's a very good Youtube conversation between Charles Moore, the great biographer, and an interlocutor.

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From the United States and and it's about 50 min, but it does touch on some very interesting aspects of her career as seen by her.

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But her chief biographer. so I would recommend that.

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But let me go back to slides we were looking at to take it through.

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Yes, the Iron Lady notion she becomes Prime Minister.

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After her first election victory and she has 4 election victories. i'll come to those in a moment which is in itself extraordinary isn't.

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It. it's a woman leading a party leading a government and winning 4 elections in a row. dwell upon that that is truly remarkable.

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Truly remarkable. However, in the first few years of the administration, 79, through to 82.

00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:20.000
She didn't do very well in the popularity stakes and the opinion polls show that she was slipping dangerously near the point where there might be a reaction within her party against her, or indeed, that she might lose the Prime

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ministerial office. However, she was saved. Can I put it that way by by the Falklands event?

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I'll come to that again as we go through a little bit later.

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She was very lucky in the circumstances that came her way, and very lucky in those who opposed her up again.

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I'll come to that in a moment but she has luck on her side, and remember what Napoleon said about generals.

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I don't want good generals I want lucky ones and That's a very powerful notion, isn't it.

00:16:50.000 --> 00:17:05.000
You do need to be fortunate to be lucky in public life to survive because you can never control. the circumstances are going to come along as Howard Wilson said, A week in politics is a long time, and so to survive

00:17:05.000 --> 00:17:10.000
as she did. She needed luck, which she got to use the Laps Got a ride the luck which she did mind the strike.

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I'll come to that. one of the great formative events in her, in her administration nearly wiped out in 1994 ra bombing of the grand hotel in Brighton.

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I mean 5 people died in it. She was She avoided injury, even although she was close to the explosion.

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She wins a second election. Riding on the popularity she gained from the Falklands in 83 Windsor, 30 election in 87.

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And then in 90, is brought down by what she called i've used her word that the treachery of her colleagues, so she resigned as party leader and

00:17:53.000 --> 00:17:59.000
Prime Minister retires to the House of Lords, becomes Lady Thatcher of Casteven.

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And has a 20 year rather dull existence by her own, a definition that she was a woman of action.

00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:14.000
She said she she wasn't happy, unless she was doing things so she did decline quite markedly.

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Once she was out of politics. and some said her

00:18:19.000 --> 00:18:24.000
She becomes quite unworld mentally it doesn't check towards the end.

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Parkinson's that possibly but whatever the cause Some observer, some of her colleagues said it was in part a consequence of her feeling of hopelessness, or or pointlessness after she left politics that

00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:53.000
she. But what made her what she was was action, the actions as she got, and there was no follow up. That can be no fall up, can there? to be Prime Minister in terms of excitement and an action that he was involved in so

00:18:53.000 --> 00:19:05.000
aside a sad ending I said any well there's some applauded. If our opponents applauded again, we might come to that if if time permits.

00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:09.000
I think this is worth mentioning I don't if you know Cracker Poland.

00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:23.000
If You've ever been there, do go in love lovely city of this city, and in the cathedral there slender cathedral, there is a side chapel dedicated to Margaret Thatcher and it says in

00:19:23.000 --> 00:19:33.000
Polish bacon of liberty. Now imagine if you were trade unionist in written, you would find that deeply ironic.

00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:47.000
But what he refers to, of course, was her support. The East European resistance to the Soviet Union, which begins to take flower from *, 88 on before the Soviet Union actually collapses in 91 and we

00:19:47.000 --> 00:19:57.000
can certain quite legitimately, that she and her friend Lonnie Reagan, in part responsible for that collapse in 91.

00:19:57.000 --> 00:20:02.000
The collapse of the Soviet Union again. an unthinkable event a few years before it happened.

00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:08.000
You couldn't think this way, monolith the soviet Union could collapse but it did.

00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:18.000
And why collapsed? Of course we could go to great detail. but certainly we we can say, I think, with justice that she played her part in the cold war being won by the West.

00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:27.000
If that's how we interpret that period so along with Ronnie Reagan staunch anti-communist, and helps bring about the collapse.

00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:37.000
The Soviet Union. so it's a major aspect of her career, obviously, how we actually measure it in terms of detail, of course, is another matter.

00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:52.000
But her approach to politics, international politics, the well, essentially one again, of strong opinions, as with her domestic policies, because she believed that you got nowhere through weakness, you had to be committed, and you had to express your commitment powerfully and

00:20:52.000 --> 00:21:10.000
people would then respect you you can't do it by soft, gentle means, and I think that might come from the realization that she was in a very tough man's world, and she had to be tough, assault in order to survive so I

00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:15.000
think there's obviously a strong connection between a personal position and Her international one.

00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:21.000
The one carries over into the other. Here it just recorded the 4 election victories that she has.

00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:31.000
I went delay on them, but you can see at a glance that she wins in 97 in 83, 87.

00:21:31.000 --> 00:21:40.000
Now she's not in office of course. in 92, but it's still a conservative victory under John Major, which you can put down to her legacy.

00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:44.000
So you could claim that she is one for election in a row.

00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:50.000
An extraordinary success. Extraordinary success! I mentioned that she was fortunate in her enemies.

00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:57.000
And i've just listed there the one that we can say she overcame during her time in office.

00:21:57.000 --> 00:22:07.000
Harry Wilson, Kim Callahan, Michael Foot, Neil Kinnock, General Galgieri, in Argentina, after Scargill, the Ira, and the Soviet Union.

00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:11.000
Not a bad bag, that, is it? Not a bad bad

00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:16.000
The trouble of we're mentioning the fortune that she has at her luck.

00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:20.000
One of her great bits of luck was the labor party structure. At that point.

00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:25.000
It was led. I heard Wilson, who was declining force by the time.

00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:28.000
She meets him as an as an opponent.

00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:38.000
Jim can, of course, inherits that terrible business of the decline of the economy that the crisis which which he had to deal with, and and couldn't because it was so profound.

00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:55.000
And so that is 2 leaders at the point became leader herself, really couldn't offer her much in in by way of equal opposition, and Michael Foot, brilliant writer, really essays but not a good public figure.

00:22:55.000 --> 00:23:02.000
A powerful orator, but but couldn't put his void he couldn't put his ideas across to the electorate in a successful way, could he?

00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:09.000
And of course he hits the party to unilaterally at a time when that was was not a good move.

00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:21.000
Certainly not in terms of the overall electorate. So those I just mentioned, those 4 Wilson Calhoun Foot, and then Neil Kinnick, who takes over in 83, and he was never able to match Margaret

00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:28.000
Thatcher in terms of delivery of ideas, and a powerful speaker in his way.

00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:35.000
But he did acknowledge subsequently that she was a very hard opponent to deal with, and he was never quite sure what to make of her.

00:23:35.000 --> 00:23:40.000
As a woman did he attack her in a way that might be thought to be sexist.

00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:49.000
For example, it's careful not to do that but it meant they had to hold back in his challenge to her very often galchieri.

00:23:49.000 --> 00:24:01.000
Obviously that the leader of the hunter in Argentina, that she takes on in the Falkland War in 82 drunk on a daily basis.

00:24:01.000 --> 00:24:05.000
We now know Galgia. He was never sober.

00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:09.000
One way of getting through life, I suppose. but he she she!

00:24:09.000 --> 00:24:17.000
She wins, she wins he takes her on in a sense, and he loses scar goes. similarly.

00:24:17.000 --> 00:24:20.000
Now Arthur Scarg was a fascinating character.

00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:28.000
He defeated Edward Teeth. I think we can say that on 2 occasions during Heath's administration lead leading the miners strike.

00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:38.000
He tries it under Margaret thatcher and she digs in, and that's that very grim battle over in the orgreave.

00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:51.000
And the the demonstrations, and the strike and it's a close-run. thing and she worried at 1 point in during the strike that scarlet might, in fact, of popular support to push it in his favor.

00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:55.000
But he never did. he never did again. We can touch on that in a moment.

00:24:55.000 --> 00:25:06.000
The Ahra tried to blower up to the 84 didn't succeed and she took a very hard line with the Ira as well.

00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:17.000
She wasn't against discussion and negotiation that she always said you can't negotiate with people who are concerned to be collaborative and violent and brutal they've got to come down before I can

00:25:17.000 --> 00:25:22.000
debate with them and hit tough line now some say didn't work.

00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:35.000
Some say that she made the position worse and that's a matter of opinion, I think; but the Ira knew where they were with so much he wasn't going to give ground to them, and the violence and the terrorism they were concerned with would not

00:25:35.000 --> 00:25:43.000
shift her fascinating period, of course, in in in Anglo-irish relations in and the Soviet Union.

00:25:43.000 --> 00:25:48.000
We mentioned in that her hard line, the iron lady notion.

00:25:48.000 --> 00:26:05.000
She believed the Soviet Union was a force for evil in the world, but she had sufficient understanding of individuals to recognize that that in Gorbachev, who emerges as a man of dignity, and integrity, and she said

00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:17.000
you's a man I can trust I mean I can work with, although she detested the background from which it came. she was very willing to treat with him on equal terms, and he was he was very impressed with her.

00:26:17.000 --> 00:26:32.000
I mean when they first met at checkers they arranged for an hour's discussion, and it went on for nearly 6 h, because, although they argued very strongly against each other, a developing mutual respect came through what you

00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:41.000
couldn't see stalin or khrushchev or lenin ever being in that position. that's again a fascinating development within the Soviet Union.

00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:47.000
But it adds to her have esteem as a strong public figure.

00:26:47.000 --> 00:26:53.000
It's just a picture of the blow the explosion there's a picture figure there, and somebody said me.

00:26:53.000 --> 00:26:58.000
Oh, that's Margaret thatcher I don't think it is. I can't prove it's not

00:26:58.000 --> 00:27:09.000
It would be too, too lucky. wouldn't it there just have captured her there. But that figure it's a lady isn't it? so it could be her but I don't I think the lux run out at that point I don't think it

00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:12.000
is a lot for the for dogs, for I mean. but but you can see how near she was.

00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:16.000
I think this is her apartment that she was in. how near it was.

00:27:16.000 --> 00:27:32.000
Keep coming to a fatal end, cause he added to her standing in the party, she became a great heroic figure, because the very next day she carried on with the conference, saying, We we do not give into terrorism, which was very impressive

00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:42.000
very press, whatever your politics, you could but be impressed by this woman doing a boat a seer like or a creative, is with the first like defiance of the enemy.

00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:47.000
Cartoon here, which I thought was amusing, and said something quite profound.

00:27:47.000 --> 00:27:52.000
If you want something said, ask a man if you want something done, ask a woman.

00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:57.000
And that was said A cartoon relates to a death obviously in 2 13.

00:27:57.000 --> 00:28:01.000
It makes a nice point doesn't it another one which makes a good point.

00:28:01.000 --> 00:28:12.000
I think again, from that period. one of the conservative loyalists looking up to heaven to where she's gone, and you've got to train newness looking down wrong direction.

00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:16.000
So that's good good expression of the division of opinion over Margaret Thatcher.

00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:25.000
You either loved her or hated her, admired her, or heated very hard to feel indifferent about it pretty hard, and people still divide over it, don't they?

00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:33.000
Fascinating me his perhaps the most famous word she ever uttered in terms of her political viewpoint.

00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:51.000
I'm afraid I can't remove that easily but it says there's no such thing as society, and that became albatross around her neck, because the Guardian picked up that statement that she made in 87, and said

00:28:51.000 --> 00:29:07.000
Oh, that defines her, defines her lack of feeling for for people that no thing of society but what they didn't stress. Of course, much, she adds to it is no government can do anything except through people and people must look to themselves

00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:12.000
it's an appeal for individual responsibility isn't It it's not a rejection of welfare as such.

00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:26.000
It's a way of saying that people must be accountable because their true character, the true worth comes out in their acceptance, and they're they're dealing with the condition they're in which of course offended others who said, no

00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:30.000
she was being short-sighted, and she was being uncaring.

00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:34.000
And then this is last sentence which people are attacked over.

00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:40.000
People have got the entitlements too much in mind without the obligations, and then her line.

00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:50.000
There's no such thing as entitlement and there's someone as first met an obligation was said to define her policy.

00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:58.000
Her attitude here's the picture I mentioned I wanted to put on the front of my book, and they said no it's too triumphal.

00:29:58.000 --> 00:30:13.000
So, but I I climbed down that's her looking at her sternest, and that's her her declining period as a peer of the realm in the House of Lords, which he didn't really enjoy very much she I

00:30:13.000 --> 00:30:17.000
think she made one of 2 contributions but it wasn't her Metia.

00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:22.000
It wasn't wasn't her natural region for action house of Lords.

00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:26.000
Yeah, Well, let me quickly run through. I think some key factors in her.

00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:33.000
Approach to politics a conviction politician. She believed in what she did.

00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:43.000
She wasn't she wasn't moved by circumstance beyond the need to meet that circumstance in relation to a basic principles.

00:30:43.000 --> 00:30:46.000
She didn't bend with the wind I think we could put it that way.

00:30:46.000 --> 00:30:58.000
That that defines now some say it's a strength some say no. it's a weakness, she's 2 committed that can can often lead to hardness, and a lack of understanding.

00:30:58.000 --> 00:31:01.000
So you can. I argue either way, influence it on her.

00:31:01.000 --> 00:31:06.000
Keith, Joseph, and the new rights is it sometimes called belief in the free market?

00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:11.000
Van Hiak could famous Austrian.

00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:24.000
Economist of this period. he he pressed the idea of the free market in opposition to government and activity, because most of the nation post 45 adopted State centralized policies didn't.

00:31:24.000 --> 00:31:36.000
They? No, the Keith Joseph, as disciple of on hike, said No, it the way forward is free enterprise, an open market, and Milton Friedman not the interesting character there.

00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:43.000
He believed, that the great enemy Oh, okay, freedom, true liberty politically was inflation.

00:31:43.000 --> 00:31:47.000
Therefore, Government, who were responsible for inflation. That was his argument.

00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:59.000
That was his thesis government spending must be controlled. so that inflation is controlled and that hit those ideas market Thatcher picks up on just on a personal detail. there. Gordon Reese was her Guru and

00:31:59.000 --> 00:32:05.000
he's the man who suggested that she modify her voice and modify her appearance.

00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:11.000
Give her a softer look. He got hair dresses to style her hair differently, and he taught her how to drop lower.

00:32:11.000 --> 00:32:24.000
Her voice in such a way it wasn't shrill Now the female voice, as you know, is naturally higher pitch than most male voices and actresses are taught in drama. school.

00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:30.000
To bring down the voice. Bring it down a register if you can because it's more powerful, more effective.

00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:45.000
If you go, hi you you can become true and she she she sat and and and studied under, and recent that regard and and did device exercises, so her later voice, which is much modified from her earlier tones.

00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:51.000
Is interesting, and that that's due to gordon Reese interesting, interesting man.

00:32:51.000 --> 00:33:00.000
And influence is there her aims tried to sum up here a key approach the aims to end what she called the postwar consensus.

00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:13.000
She believed that the common acceptance by both major parties, conservatives, and labor of common policies, particularly in regard to economics, was damaging to British interests.

00:33:13.000 --> 00:33:15.000
The idea of Keynesianism. You know Knesianism.

00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:23.000
The notion that is the i'm in a healthy economy.

00:33:23.000 --> 00:33:32.000
John made our claims, wrote to the 1,900 thirtys during the depression, and is aim was to try and find an answer to economic depression, and he found the answer.

00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:37.000
He put it forward in that in terms of demand. the demand creates jobs that can.

00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:54.000
Creativity creates productivity and everybody benefits, and therefore, if demand drops off and you have recession, have to do is artificially to stimulate economy by creating jobs by by initiatives that that soak up the

00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:59.000
unemployed. For example. at most all the parties accepted Kingsanism as a basic policy.

00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:13.000
Unemployment was a great enemy, and you cured unemployment, or you limited to it by Keynesian methods that she found restrictive and damaging, and her interpretation Post-war Britain was that change inism

00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:17.000
had been too powerful in its influence, and it held Britain back.

00:34:17.000 --> 00:34:28.000
So her aim is to reverse Kenzianism, to cut government, spending to cut taxes along with that to restrict bureaucracy.

00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:31.000
Because if you cut government activity, you can cut bureaucracy.

00:34:31.000 --> 00:34:38.000
And this famous phrase of hers to take government off the backs of the people, so that's a summary of her aims.

00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:42.000
But in simplified form. How how would you go about that monitorism?

00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:50.000
Money control. Pick this up for Milton Friedman. Of course, the idea governments on the are the source of inflation, because they spend heavily.

00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:56.000
So if you can cut back on government expenditure, you can reduce inflation.

00:34:56.000 --> 00:35:02.000
You can cut inflation. A second factor. Second method, Trade Union Reform.

00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:13.000
Her interpretation of ted heed's time was he'd been too weak in the face of Union pressure, and therefore so get written back on an even keel.

00:35:13.000 --> 00:35:19.000
The train unions must be brought into line, so they serve the community rather than dominating it.

00:35:19.000 --> 00:35:22.000
And then we add that she was never anti-trade union in.

00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:28.000
She claimed she believed in bargaining. You believed in the free market in that video, and you need to trade unions.

00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:36.000
What she objected to was the dominance of leaders of trade unions who didn't consult members, but simply followed a political agenda.

00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:44.000
That's why she said, the trade unions need reform. they need control in because they're not democratic in their function.

00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:49.000
Again. You could respond to that as a trade reading this, but that was her line also believed in accountability.

00:35:49.000 --> 00:35:54.000
Margaret Thatcher that local government should account to the people.

00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:59.000
It should be responsible to the people, and therefore it should be reformed to make it much more accountable.

00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:02.000
It ties in with her notion of personal responsibility.

00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:14.000
People must be responsible for themselves, and therefore government at the local government which are responsible for handling public money must account for that money, and must account for the activities on the broader basis to the people.

00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:34.000
They meant to serve so strong. and she does follow that idea of reforming at local level, which, of course, caused great consternation and bitter response at local level, by many, at many councils and labor council of course back form really strong groups against

00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:39.000
saturism, as they called it. short term consequences for policies.

00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:46.000
Recession, rising unemployment, and social unrest.

00:36:46.000 --> 00:36:52.000
Yes, that there are disturbing scenes in the early eighties, riots in in some of the cities.

00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:56.000
Bristol, London. of course nottingham loom large there.

00:36:56.000 --> 00:37:02.000
So those what I say in shorthand were the consequences of her immediate policy.

00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:16.000
In the early eighties monitorism, and there are other reforms that went with it, and that the of the freeing of the market her oppositions, political opposition, and trade.

00:37:16.000 --> 00:37:20.000
You know this. This was a reason for for recession that she was.

00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:28.000
She was distorting things by her hard line Well, let's come to one of the those policies I mentioned.

00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:39.000
Saw her popularity dip in the in the early eightys, but pick up very, very rapidly after her great success over the Falklands again.

00:37:39.000 --> 00:37:50.000
Not time to go to the details here, but she stood out again bowed a seal like against the galaxy area threat to take over the fortune's, and it's said by those who around at the time.

00:37:50.000 --> 00:38:02.000
That she was so individual in what she did she wouldn't listen to those who doubted the possibility of winning, and when she got the first sea Lord!

00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:06.000
On her side. she said. that's it if he says we can do this.

00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:11.000
We can. So the the launching, you know of that campaign?

00:38:11.000 --> 00:38:18.000
That that that you know, part naval and part are landed.

00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:29.000
Campaign in the Falklands, which proves highly successful again. we'd love to go into detail if we can't but she wins, and she wins because she is committed to the idea we have to win she said there's

00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:36.000
no alternative to defeating Galieri. Because if we lose on this one, what else could we preserve of British values?

00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:43.000
If we give up on protecting the falcon islanders, 98% of whom wish to stay under the British flag.

00:38:43.000 --> 00:38:50.000
If we don't honor that we're not prepared to fight for that we might as well give up huge risk.

00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:56.000
She took, Of course, that had failed if that's campaign had failed.

00:38:56.000 --> 00:39:01.000
She would be lost. she could have carried on she'd committed herself to victory.

00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:08.000
There again. I won't go into the details of how the campaign was was run, and people did object to some of her moves.

00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:15.000
That would be thinking of the belgrano but She comes out of it, hugely popular, particularly among the service class element.

00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:23.000
I'm i'm being in portsmouth at the time when the fleet came back and the rejoicing, and the chairs for her extraordinary extraordinary.

00:39:23.000 --> 00:39:38.000
Now you might say that's an isolated area but I think the general public picked up that mood. and she was seen as oh, really figured that it's that a defeated fascism in the object canyon full of

00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:45.000
it. Well, let's press on the outcome as I say on the political outcomes a key one upsurge in her popularity.

00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:59.000
Wrong for the opposition. Yes, Michael foot and then neil connects. didn't really know how to handle this They couldn't attack her too strongly, because that would appear to be labor not supporting the lads out there fighting big

00:39:59.000 --> 00:40:03.000
problem for for labor. How did they handle the forbidden question?

00:40:03.000 --> 00:40:06.000
And they were caught out on it really, and they lost popularity.

00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:11.000
And she gained from this again part of her her luck in in that regard.

00:40:11.000 --> 00:40:16.000
Let's come to the the other very biggest suit in her time.

00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:23.000
The minus strike call was in decline. British cold could not be mind at a profit.

00:40:23.000 --> 00:40:26.000
So who it was was in town would have to accept.

00:40:26.000 --> 00:40:29.000
The mining was in decline, could it be sustained?

00:40:29.000 --> 00:40:34.000
But through subsidy. that was a big question and of course the social issue came up there.

00:40:34.000 --> 00:40:44.000
If you if if you allow minds to close mind is a phone out of jobs, and they're not many workers, they're part of a community that depends upon the mind.

00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:51.000
The pit, and the mind was central to saying, the South Wales area parts of the northeast parts of Scotland.

00:40:51.000 --> 00:40:59.000
If the minds closed, the community died and it's argued that she never quite grasped that.

00:40:59.000 --> 00:41:04.000
So when she pushed forward for logic. But minds are losing money.

00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:09.000
Therefore you allow them to close because it suicide the economic to leave them open.

00:41:09.000 --> 00:41:23.000
She was saying in effect those victims i've got to face the consequences of an economic decision, and that she led her to being accused of being uncaring the idea that she didn't really care enough about people.

00:41:23.000 --> 00:41:35.000
She cared too much about ideas, and about economics not about community. That's one of the charges that you still here, of course, by by those who don't accept her record the there to cartoon.

00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:41.000
Which I think is amusing, but make again makes a very powerful point.

00:41:41.000 --> 00:41:49.000
So do tell me, do you keep all of these magnificent 5 men with calls, anyway, and there's it even sorry about this.

00:41:49.000 --> 00:41:58.000
But it should say under there, Why, is this pit still open that's rather good isn't it she's going down into the debts.

00:41:58.000 --> 00:42:04.000
And she's she's worried that it's a pit not been closed.

00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:19.000
Very bitter that, but he makes his point doesn't it and hit here aspects of it closure the minds would distrust whole communities, and then the mining dispute was led by 2 very hard men hard

00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:24.000
line me after Scargill, a committed Marxist who actually took money from the Soviet Union.

00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:30.000
This time, and from Libya we now know face by Ian Mcgregor, a Canadian.

00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:35.000
But with a record of being very unfinching and very unsentimental.

00:42:35.000 --> 00:42:43.000
If I think didn't work close it if a plant doesn't work, close it, and he took that line over the mining industry in Britain.

00:42:43.000 --> 00:42:55.000
Mine closure was, was his his priority, and of course you could see why the 2 met, and of course the Government backed Mcgregor not openly.

00:42:55.000 --> 00:43:03.000
The Government claimed to be Neutral in this but of course it wasn't, and what Margaret thatcher had done she'd learn from a Ted.

00:43:03.000 --> 00:43:15.000
He's mistakes. she had ordered the stockpiling of coal. when she learned that a strike was looming, so when Scarle called out the miners in 84. the government had prepared the way.

00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:19.000
There were enough stocks to keep fuel supplies.

00:43:19.000 --> 00:43:24.000
I of course. Also that strike never became a full strike in terms of all the miners.

00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:34.000
A. at its strongest. It was 2 thirds of the miners, and it was only half within 8 or 9 months of the strike, and he never gone backing through a poll.

00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:40.000
He never pulled his members, and and she was able to say he's not followed democratic path.

00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:44.000
He's he's taken a decision at the top of the Nu M.

00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:48.000
But it's he has no he has no remit from the miners themselves.

00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:53.000
There's no mandate from them because he's not tested their view on that.

00:43:53.000 --> 00:44:01.000
And that was his weakness. not not being prepared to call a ballot on the strike.

00:44:01.000 --> 00:44:06.000
Well, after that first failure we can save her policy down to 82, 83.

00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:19.000
We then have a second stage. Most scholars most books talk about this, where you turns to what's called supply side economics, and I've just listed there the key elements of it, reducing taxation to increase incentives

00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:24.000
encouraging competition to lower prices, limiting the powers of the trade unions.

00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:35.000
So they couldn't block productivity, and then cutting what wasteful welfare payments This is the one that got her charge with being uncaring that she said.

00:44:35.000 --> 00:44:43.000
Dependency deprives people of their sense of of self worth and the first rule of government shouldn't be to bail up people.

00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:52.000
Haven't got jobs. It should be to provide them with jobs to give them some sense of worth back in a community of work.

00:44:52.000 --> 00:45:03.000
That's her life. but as you can see could be easily interpreted as being anti welfare, which he claims she never was, but he wanted welfare properly adjusted. probably allocated.

00:45:03.000 --> 00:45:07.000
So it served the interest of the nation, and not just all particular groups.

00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:12.000
Deregulation. Another aspect of a policy i've just listed there again.

00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:18.000
The big changes in finance, transport, education, hospitals, housing, local government.

00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:26.000
They are all brought under this notion of we don't need organization.

00:45:26.000 --> 00:45:35.000
And Reg. If you can break down the degree of red tape, for example, you can get much more efficient public services.

00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:43.000
That's her notion. So all through her line is my policies aim to serve the public.

00:45:43.000 --> 00:45:49.000
Now, of course, that was challenged by those who found it to be not a balanced approach, but that's her line.

00:45:49.000 --> 00:45:56.000
So all these deregulatory measures are meant to make the services more accountable to the people.

00:45:56.000 --> 00:46:10.000
They're meant to serve as in education for example as in housing, and this idea of Council House tenants being allowed to buy their property, which would add to this number of a property owning democracy, which had been the great conservative

00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:16.000
principle, even before her time privatization not the big isn't it.

00:46:16.000 --> 00:46:22.000
And then we've listed some of the 50 entries is sold off, enjoying her time.

00:46:22.000 --> 00:46:24.000
British airways, pretty steel British cold cable, and miles.

00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:29.000
But what what a what a challenge of of key areas they are aren't they?

00:46:29.000 --> 00:46:35.000
And there's a revenue derived from privatization building up over her.

00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:42.000
He is very impressive that isn't in terms surely of amount running into the billions in the end.

00:46:42.000 --> 00:46:56.000
These are figures that people use, of course, in terms of attacking the policies because they claim policies led to Al employment, and the number of industrial workers declined significantly.

00:46:56.000 --> 00:47:07.000
In those 20 years, however, that's entirely a result of political policy. Margaret, that's policies There was a natural decline in Britain as an industrial power.

00:47:07.000 --> 00:47:17.000
Britain was moving from an industrial base to a service economy, and so that would have happened regardless of the governments in power at any particular time.

00:47:17.000 --> 00:47:25.000
It was a process it's attached of course to the industrial sorry to the to the international setting as well.

00:47:25.000 --> 00:47:33.000
Companies weren't buying from britain in the way they had previously, and that was a reality that had to be you responded to.

00:47:33.000 --> 00:47:40.000
So those figures don't suggest unemployment but they do indicate the shift in the industrial shape of Britain.

00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:46.000
The move away from heavy industry. Now this is remarkable.

00:47:46.000 --> 00:47:50.000
Comparison of Gdp rates, which is the only way you can measure.

00:47:50.000 --> 00:47:59.000
Really an economy through Gdp measurement and you'll see there that Britain does rather well in the thatcher years compared with Europe.

00:47:59.000 --> 00:48:09.000
Which shouldn't have been if you think joining Europe would be the way ahead, because it would free Britain to become more prosperous.

00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:17.000
In fact, it no. Europe declines at a time in Britain in terms of Gdp output increases.

00:48:17.000 --> 00:48:24.000
These are the number of firms created in her time, or all other developing her time.

00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:35.000
And the number of self-employed and you'll see that very significantly it's a self-employed that she was very keen to help because she believed the self employed who didn't depend on

00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:40.000
stay handouts or state subsidies, that they were the real source of economic strength.

00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:54.000
So those figures are interesting. They follow in part, anyway, from her emphasis upon self-employment, self-employed activity as being one of the great sources of rich recovery.

00:48:54.000 --> 00:49:02.000
This might strike you as odd because you wouldn't think it was gonna happen real real wages in her time.

00:49:02.000 --> 00:49:08.000
France, West Germany, U.S.A.: very low. increase even a minus figure. U.S.A.

00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:21.000
But if in Britain real wages, that's that's capacity to buy real wage earnings that can be realized in in purchase or goods, real wages, not not just a figure itself, but they increase by 26

00:49:21.000 --> 00:49:32.000
percent. No small thing that is it. Inflation rate 20 over 20% in her early years, and it's dropped by the middle years to to in half around there.

00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:37.000
And then this great principle of hers of a shareholding society.

00:49:37.000 --> 00:49:42.000
But each people holding shares increased by 25%.

00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:49.000
Over. a 1 million people bought their council houses again that's controversial because some said it took council housing out of the reach of those who would rent it.

00:49:49.000 --> 00:49:55.000
But people have got to live somewhere, she said so i'm not I'm, not I'm not decreasing the availability of property.

00:49:55.000 --> 00:50:00.000
I'm just giving freedom. People who are already in that property to purchase

00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:11.000
Those are the unemployment figures. under her for 1983 to 90, and you'll see how grim they are. By the middle years 3 and a half are approaching 3 and a half 1 million.

00:50:11.000 --> 00:50:22.000
They dip significantly in her later years, but that those middle years were very troubled times, and she was accused of deliberately creating unemployment.

00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:31.000
These are figures showing the tax rates that develop under her.

00:50:31.000 --> 00:50:35.000
One of her promises while she would cut tax on, did she?

00:50:35.000 --> 00:50:51.000
Well, yes, but you would say marginally in 79, a single person's total tax bill was 45 in 1990; that if her term is down to nearly 43, and married with 2 children the

00:50:51.000 --> 00:50:54.000
tax rates. There they dropped again. So there is a marginal shift.

00:50:54.000 --> 00:50:58.000
So in a sense she kept the promise it's not a huge sweeping change.

00:50:58.000 --> 00:51:04.000
But it's going in the right direction. one might say her collapse, of course, is over.

00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:18.000
2 major features of her time, the poll tax, which she very badly handled in 89, 90, and then her approach to Europe which upset her own party colleagues picked those at the top.

00:51:18.000 --> 00:51:24.000
A nice like plot it, if we can use that word against her and bring her down over poll tax over Europe.

00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:38.000
Some say she's already passed her best by then she'd been in office for too long, and therefore she'd run out of that sense of political judgment that had seen her through earlier, and that is an interesting point so when it.

00:51:38.000 --> 00:51:47.000
Comes to the challenge to her. Michael Hazelton, who was strongly backed by many in the bookies back back, Tim, would you believe

00:51:47.000 --> 00:52:02.000
But when it came to the vote a cheat she wins but she doesn't win by a big enough majority to prevent a second, a a valid being, called, and that was enough for her to say i'm not prepared to stand for second

00:52:02.000 --> 00:52:07.000
ballot if I can't win on the first it shows the direction of the party, and she announced her withdrawal.

00:52:07.000 --> 00:52:15.000
Just to finish the story there. Little time think he could now breeze in was then opposed by John.

00:52:15.000 --> 00:52:21.000
Major and Douglas heard and they'd end Major defeated him, and Hazel.

00:52:21.000 --> 00:52:23.000
I never forgave Margaret Thatcher or nature.

00:52:23.000 --> 00:52:31.000
So he and Heath have this long sunk again in the way they were.

00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:40.000
Well, let me end on this run on about. take a couple of minutes.

00:52:40.000 --> 00:52:45.000
The beta. With thatrism the case for supportors would push this point.

00:52:45.000 --> 00:53:02.000
Made Britain face economic reality, encourage initiative, created conditions of growth, creating new jobs, advance popular capitalism, and develops the notion of accountability against that opponents would say writers for still emphasize these points.

00:53:02.000 --> 00:53:09.000
Encourage individuals and agreed, ignored the needs of the vulnerable in society, cause unemployment in particular areas.

00:53:09.000 --> 00:53:13.000
Of course, at her policies, led to recession

00:53:13.000 --> 00:53:20.000
And then i'll end on this I promise these are what i've called the Paradoxes of tattooism.

00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:29.000
Despite her determination to cut Government spending when she went out of office in 1990 public expenditure was at record levels.

00:53:29.000 --> 00:53:42.000
She didn't cut public expenditure overall there were times when it did drop, but overall there's an expansion in in government spending central government was meant to be cut and limited, but in fact, there were more departments doing

00:53:42.000 --> 00:53:52.000
more activity under her by 1990 and to European I haven't time to go into this. it's fascinating theme, and here European, but she takes Britain deep into Europe. anybody else.

00:53:52.000 --> 00:54:05.000
Up to that time 1,986 the single European act, which which commits Britain in a way that she then later regretted such had been bad badly advised. but was her work her acceptance and then this last point

00:54:05.000 --> 00:54:14.000
i've made I don't have the ladies think about this, but feminists still say that she didn't serve feminine interests.

00:54:14.000 --> 00:54:23.000
And have comment here. she wished to promote she didn't wish to promote women merely because they were women. that would be to patronize them.

00:54:23.000 --> 00:54:33.000
And you can argue for and against that my view and i'll close on this is that looking at it from an objective coupon as I can.

00:54:33.000 --> 00:54:41.000
What she did proved what women could do at that highest level of political action, and nothing called close on that point.

00:54:41.000 --> 00:54:46.000
So I drive around a bit. But there we are. Okay. Can I stop the share there?

00:54:46.000 --> 00:54:53.000
Yes, thank you, Michael. thanks very much for that, and I think we shall just dive straight into some questions.

00:54:53.000 --> 00:54:58.000
Michael no, let me just scroll back up to the top.

00:54:58.000 --> 00:55:07.000
No! this is a question from sorry focus. This is taking a minute.

00:55:07.000 --> 00:55:17.000
At that time when she saw it first broke through. She was the only woman so presumably men help to get there.

00:55:17.000 --> 00:55:20.000
What would you? What would you say to that? That was from Lisa?

00:55:20.000 --> 00:55:26.000
Well, they did not, with the intention of her being there as long as she was she was a stop gap.

00:55:26.000 --> 00:55:30.000
She was she filled in caretak, if you like, until they found some of it.

00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:42.000
But she then dominates the men but I don't think they were on her side to begin with and the tory party wasn't Pro-market Thatcher in that sense, until she proved her worth as a leader

00:55:42.000 --> 00:55:53.000
as a Prime Minister, but but as a party leader. it's because there was nobody they could put up against her in 75, and they were so upset with what heath the the done.

00:55:53.000 --> 00:55:58.000
His failures that anybody would do in the sense rather than Heath.

00:55:58.000 --> 00:56:06.000
And I think they were lulled into thinking Well, she'll do as a stop gap a fill in. But yes, you're right in the sense that it was man who chose her.

00:56:06.000 --> 00:56:12.000
But I don't think they chose her with the motive of of promoting her in the way that she did rise.

00:56:12.000 --> 00:56:26.000
Okay, interesting, right? Let me find the next question. yes, this is about the the I re. when you were talking about , and standing standing up to the ie.

00:56:26.000 --> 00:56:30.000
This is from Patrick. Did she really beat the Ira?

00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:38.000
History, and the forward trained of irish unification which you're starting to do some of that coming through.

00:56:38.000 --> 00:56:40.000
Yeah, good question. I wouldn't put it as a as victory and defeat.

00:56:40.000 --> 00:56:43.000
No, that would be too strong, because obviously the problem goes on and goes on.

00:56:43.000 --> 00:56:57.000
Now. but what I had in mind was that she wouldn't make any concession. There were there were voices in politics the time saying, Look, although the Ira are terrorists, they do have a point politically.

00:56:57.000 --> 00:57:06.000
You've got to recognize that before you can reach any resolution and she refused to accept that line of reasoning on the grounds that it was giving into terrorism.

00:57:06.000 --> 00:57:17.000
So, whatever the Ira case might be in political terms whatever value it had, or credit she wouldn't accept because it was presented in a way that was that was blanched over by terrorism.

00:57:17.000 --> 00:57:28.000
Now that doesn't mean she wins the battle Obviously and they already become even more entrenched in some ways in their bitterness and and dislike of her and and her her government.

00:57:28.000 --> 00:57:33.000
But it by standing up to terrorism I think I put it that way.

00:57:33.000 --> 00:57:44.000
She showed that she wasn't going to be a soft touch and she wasn't going down the road of concessions that some had put to her as the logical way to reach a settlement.

00:57:44.000 --> 00:57:51.000
Somehow in Northern Ireland. in the end. Of course, we do get concessions on both sides.

00:57:51.000 --> 00:57:55.000
Unionists and national side in the end that's wrong long past her time.

00:57:55.000 --> 00:58:03.000
But some would say that her resolution and her resistance to concessions to the Ira was a form of victory in itself.

00:58:03.000 --> 00:58:08.000
But I I take the point, of the question it's not It's not a victory in terms of defeating the Ira as a movement.

00:58:08.000 --> 00:58:15.000
Obviously not but it puts her in a in a position of defending what she regarded as the democratic process against terrorism.

00:58:15.000 --> 00:58:20.000
That was her line, and I think it was popular, too, in in in Britain, anyway.

00:58:20.000 --> 00:58:24.000
Broadly, and did add to a victory in 87.

00:58:24.000 --> 00:58:34.000
For example, Okay, and next question is from Steve, and it relates to another question kind of from Sue as well.

00:58:34.000 --> 00:58:52.000
To what extent was that empowered by the support of most national newspapers? And that leads into a comment from Sue, which was when you were talking about the kind of list of enemies that she had overcome and it could be said

00:58:52.000 --> 00:58:59.000
that she could bet easily have overcome sort of some of those people and the progressive approaches.

00:58:59.000 --> 00:59:06.000
And as people like Kenneth were demonized by the press, so what what could you say about that?

00:59:06.000 --> 00:59:10.000
Well, of course the press is divided isn't it it's not wholly anti or pro thatcher.

00:59:10.000 --> 00:59:13.000
He taught the guardian, I mean the voice of the intellectuals.

00:59:13.000 --> 00:59:23.000
We sometimes think that that maintain a very consistent anti- thatcher line, as with that publication of her statement about no such thing as society.

00:59:23.000 --> 00:59:28.000
The Guardian throughout her time was opposed to her. the Daily Mirror was opposed her.

00:59:28.000 --> 00:59:33.000
Now you take the express and the male. Of course they were Pro thatcher popular papers.

00:59:33.000 --> 00:59:43.000
The times tried to be neutral as it always does but I wouldn't have thought you could argue that she supported strongly by the press.

00:59:43.000 --> 00:59:55.000
I think it's divided. and certainly, some of the most damaging things said about her lack of care, for example are said by by the Guardian and by the mirror and mirror.

00:59:55.000 --> 01:00:08.000
Of course the highly popular paper guardian was limited circles but influential certainly among intellectual classes wasn't the Guardian. So I wouldn't I would totally accept the idea of the press was on her side the popular press

01:00:08.000 --> 01:00:13.000
was. Yes, the tabloid, if you like, and they represent a greater number of readers.

01:00:13.000 --> 01:00:18.000
Of course, the express and the far out way, the Guardian and the Times in terms of readership.

01:00:18.000 --> 01:00:26.000
So that that one could add that to the the the comment but I wouldn't have thought that that there's a press control exercise at any point.

01:00:26.000 --> 01:00:38.000
And she she got some very grim reviews from from the garden, as I say, and the mirror and I pick those 2 as the anti Thatcher papers and the Pro Thatcher.

01:00:38.000 --> 01:00:43.000
Of course, the male and and the express so I I think it's divided.

01:00:43.000 --> 01:00:50.000
I think the press was divided, as was a nation in many ways, with with entrance on Margaret Thatcher side.

01:00:50.000 --> 01:00:55.000
When it came to choices. people did tend to back her as out for elections show.

01:00:55.000 --> 01:01:01.000
That's what an accident is it if you can win 4 elections that must say something about the mood.

01:01:01.000 --> 01:01:05.000
The attitude, the leaning of the electrode

01:01:05.000 --> 01:01:20.000
I I put that that level. Yes, okay, right another question I suppose it's kind of almost related to what we've we've just been talking about there, and a question from Helen she becomes Kenny Everett at the

01:01:20.000 --> 01:01:27.000
Conservative, , conference in 1983 declining , , like Michael Fitch, stick away.

01:01:27.000 --> 01:01:41.000
Let's born Russia not disowning Such didn't she say that it was it was a joke, and that you shouldn't take the joke too seriously.

01:01:41.000 --> 01:01:48.000
He always she wouldn't do what he was suggesting and he didn't really intend her to do that, and she said you must take the joke.

01:01:48.000 --> 01:01:54.000
That was her line, and there's no need for me to denounce it, to go back on it.

01:01:54.000 --> 01:02:02.000
It was the conference that he was providing light entertainment in that particular way of his, and so don't take it any more seriously than he intended.

01:02:02.000 --> 01:02:07.000
No obviously that wouldn't satisfy up that was her comeback Anyway, on it.

01:02:07.000 --> 01:02:13.000
I don't respond because it's not serious and either satisfied with the dance or it doesn't.

01:02:13.000 --> 01:02:16.000
But that that was her line. That was her a reaction to it.

01:02:16.000 --> 01:02:20.000
I do remember it actually. Yes, for the big the big hands yeah didn't it?

01:02:20.000 --> 01:02:28.000
Yes, even even I remember that. And okay The question from Sheila.

01:02:28.000 --> 01:02:33.000
Hmm! very relevant to myself, being from north of the border.

01:02:33.000 --> 01:02:40.000
Particularly was the pull tax her biggest economic policy Mistake?

01:02:40.000 --> 01:02:52.000
Yes, short answer yes back on she didn't understand what She was letting herself in, for she said she was badly advised, and she may well have been because obviously you get your information from advisors.

01:02:52.000 --> 01:02:58.000
That's their job, but her her rush to introduce it she didn't need to.

01:02:58.000 --> 01:03:02.000
There was no necessity to introduce the poll tax When she did, she could awaited

01:03:02.000 --> 01:03:09.000
It wasn't a great demand from the public I mean the rate system didn't need reform.

01:03:09.000 --> 01:03:13.000
There's no doubt about that. but the idea of a poll tax very badly.

01:03:13.000 --> 01:03:21.000
Handled, because it gave the impression that she was punishing people financially as individuals for what

01:03:21.000 --> 01:03:38.000
It seemed that she was picking off people, and and and since finding them, what meant was, people should pay for the services they receive. and therefore, in a local community the right not a good way of doing that, how do you pay for education the

01:03:38.000 --> 01:03:45.000
police the streets to be clean people all benefit from those things, and therefore they should pay their fair share, and so to Poll pull.

01:03:45.000 --> 01:03:52.000
In that sense, people paying for what they receive would seem to be a perfect piece of justice in her mind.

01:03:52.000 --> 01:03:57.000
She didn't understand the politics attached to it and since you mentioned north of the border.

01:03:57.000 --> 01:04:00.000
Why, what is it? Scotland? She picked on to impose it?

01:04:00.000 --> 01:04:11.000
And that led to very strong resistance among Scottish people, which then carries over into into the rest of Britain; and it's seen as an act of arbitrary government on her part.

01:04:11.000 --> 01:04:14.000
So. Yes, the answer is, it was very badly handled.

01:04:14.000 --> 01:04:18.000
She made a very big era there in 89, 90.

01:04:18.000 --> 01:04:23.000
Yes, yeah, right? Okay. Another question. and then, I know that we've got some other questions that have come in.

01:04:23.000 --> 01:04:26.000
But I think what we may have to do because we have run on a bit.

01:04:26.000 --> 01:04:32.000
We'll take the rest of the questions are we and get these answered afterwards, and i'll send them to you.

01:04:32.000 --> 01:04:45.000
My, but we've had a 2 or 3 questions about I guess her legacy and I think it's kind of summed up by a question from Kevin.

01:04:45.000 --> 01:04:53.000
Do you again that some of our convictions led to poor policies that have since been discredited even by the Conservatives.

01:04:53.000 --> 01:04:59.000
So you're talking about pull tax you're talking about conversation. look at what's happening with energy at the moment.

01:04:59.000 --> 01:05:09.000
You know the the railways without replacing all of this. yes, i'd accept those criticisms.

01:05:09.000 --> 01:05:12.000
Yes, they do. They They were reverse, they were, they were.

01:05:12.000 --> 01:05:22.000
You can say Ill judge policies and they're out and they did not succeed in achieving the outcome. She had in mind what I think is important about her legacy.

01:05:22.000 --> 01:05:27.000
There is not so much the economics which we could obviously debate one way or another.

01:05:27.000 --> 01:05:33.000
But I go back to the the response of of the Labor party, who said that she had changed the character of politics.

01:05:33.000 --> 01:05:39.000
She brought into politics a sense of realism that had been lacking prior to her.

01:05:39.000 --> 01:05:45.000
In other words, You had to face the world as it was and you couldn't simply stick to ideals being presented.

01:05:45.000 --> 01:05:47.000
That's what Neil kenneth picked up on very quick.

01:05:47.000 --> 01:05:52.000
Remember, the 8 is famous 85 speech to the Congress, which was booed by many, he said.

01:05:52.000 --> 01:06:04.000
Look the real world is like this comrade and you can't go around putting your ideals of socialism in if they don't work in the times we're in we've got to be realistic and that was almost saying

01:06:04.000 --> 01:06:16.000
That's a piece of pure thatcherism the world is like this: Britain's in this world at this point, and this is what you have to do in order to respond to the crises and the problems that confront britain you can't

01:06:16.000 --> 01:06:24.000
follow an ideological line and be successful. that is, I think, her biggest legacy, and one acknowledged.

01:06:24.000 --> 01:06:35.000
As we said before, by Tony Blair, who became Thatcherite, would suggest in his approach to Government one of her greater successes, someone said, is terrorism.

01:06:35.000 --> 01:06:40.000
I see you put as a as a a degree level question.

01:06:40.000 --> 01:06:49.000
University that Margaret thatcher's greater success. was Blair-ism, which is really a new form of saturism.

01:06:49.000 --> 01:06:54.000
Now that was a notion that was a notion and I think there's so much in that to to dwell upon that.

01:06:54.000 --> 01:06:59.000
She changed the way politicians thought about politics in Britain.

01:06:59.000 --> 01:07:06.000
Now you might think that a reactionary or regressive policy fair enough, but that is what she did.

01:07:06.000 --> 01:07:19.000
And it it couldn't have been done any other way I I would suggest at that point, and I wonder whether any other individual apart from her, could have done it in the way that she did which may come round the fact that she was a

01:07:19.000 --> 01:07:27.000
woman operating in a very difficult world. Every move she made was subject to, because the way she dressed and appeared criticized the whole time.

01:07:27.000 --> 01:07:30.000
Every every time you open a newspaper. There was some comment about her.

01:07:30.000 --> 01:07:35.000
Her dress and style, and she had to live with all that, and she did it.

01:07:35.000 --> 01:07:44.000
I would suggest very successfully. accepting Oh, the other point you made about the failures on economic policies in detail and the reversal of privatization.

01:07:44.000 --> 01:07:51.000
Yes, yes, but it's her impact on politics. I think which is the the biggest aspect of her legacy.

01:07:51.000 --> 01:07:57.000
Okay, right, folks. I think we need to leave it there because we really are out of time.
 

00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:44.000
Okay. So today, what i'm looking at is the origins of football,

00:02:44.000 --> 00:03:04.000
And Scotts want to stop by saying that what are called folk games or mob football been played by the common people throughout the British Isles for more than a 1,000 years, especially on special accounts like Strove tide But

00:03:04.000 --> 00:03:12.000
the gains differed from place to place and it wasn't for always we know it to die.

00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:18.000
There were few, if any, rules, and it was a very violent game.

00:03:18.000 --> 00:03:25.000
Deaths and serious injuries being very common over the centuries.

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The authorities tried everything to ban it. By the early nineteenth century it had virtually died out.

00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:42.000
Now the revival of football kind for the very unexpected source.

00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:55.000
The public schools. By the nineteenth century public schools have become very violent and disorderly places.

00:03:55.000 --> 00:04:10.000
Pupils can' themselves to be superior to The rest of society, including being superior to their middle class masters or teachers.

00:04:10.000 --> 00:04:23.000
So at the beginning of the nineteenth century, students regularly attacked masters as well as the local population

00:04:23.000 --> 00:04:34.000
They had also been playing violent, disorderly mob games since the Middle Ages. When the public school was started.

00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:40.000
They were gains that witness. The lower class is playing in their communities.

00:04:40.000 --> 00:04:51.000
The masters in public schools in the early nineteenth century were deeply religious, and committed to the Puritan ethic.

00:04:51.000 --> 00:05:01.000
They disapproved of and frowned on these mob guides, and tried to curb these outbreaks of disorderliness.

00:05:01.000 --> 00:05:11.000
But they will gradually losing control of the boys. So by the nineteenth century it was so bad.

00:05:11.000 --> 00:05:21.000
The many public schools attempted radical reform, and one such school was uping on the public.

00:05:21.000 --> 00:05:38.000
The school's reforming head edward free architect of the headmaster's conference of public school heads, so to direct the boys aggression into more noble pursuits.

00:05:38.000 --> 00:06:02.000
But probably the greatest influence was at Rugby School, and probably the most influential person with regard to the development of modern sports, and that person was Thomas Arnold and Arnold is known as the father of public school

00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:13.000
athleticism. The inspiration for Arnold's ideas were taken from the noble traditions of ancient Greece.

00:06:13.000 --> 00:06:17.000
In 1,846. It was Arnold who sat down.

00:06:17.000 --> 00:06:26.000
The first truly standardized rules to the game of football.

00:06:26.000 --> 00:06:41.000
Oh, no! it's puritanism also encouraged Greek Spartan ideals of courage, discipline, leadership of resolve in the face of all austerity.

00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:46.000
So headmaster is like throwing, and Arnold 1, 2, 2 instill.

00:06:46.000 --> 00:07:08.000
These qualities and values into their pupils. After all, I were training the elite who would lead what they thought of as this great empire of nations of ours. and this Olympian ideal was expressed in the

00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:20.000
motto, Mansana, incorporated sono, which, loosely translated, means a healthy mind in a healthy body.

00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:28.000
In practice this meant cold showers, plenty of talk and physical activity.

00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:47.000
It was thought that this would not only instill order and discipline, but also would provide a healthy activity or adolescent boys, distracting them from heavy drinking and gambling as well as what were considered more

00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:54.000
disgusting personal activities, like masteration and buggering.

00:07:54.000 --> 00:08:07.000
These reforming head masters thought therefore that's spot was good for the soul, as well as for the body

00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:17.000
They developed the cult of athleticism and the notion of muscular Christian views of manliness.

00:08:17.000 --> 00:08:23.000
Now muscular Christianity was a movement that assumed that mole.

00:08:23.000 --> 00:08:31.000
Fortitude, as expressed in Christianity, was founded on physical fortitude.

00:08:31.000 --> 00:08:51.000
This reform of sport also involved the development of what came to be known as the Corinthian spirit, and the coincidence Spirit meant more physical and deva as well as moral integrity.

00:08:51.000 --> 00:09:16.000
It involved playing with the rules games. It was thought to be about model instruction, particularly that it is wrong to change What was important was not just the letter, but also the spirit of the game which at the time was expressed.

00:09:16.000 --> 00:09:39.000
The English poet Henry newbolt let's play up, play out play the game so arnold Well, as other reforming headmasters encourage the boys to make the vulgar games that they applied respectable

00:09:39.000 --> 00:09:50.000
the rules of their traditional school guides were formalized into house, competitions were encouraged.

00:09:50.000 --> 00:10:09.000
A masters observed how well the game served to encourage qualities such as loyalty, selflessness, cooperation, supportination, and deference to the team spirit.

00:10:09.000 --> 00:10:15.000
So football was transformed into a gentlemanly guy.

00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:28.000
With a code of conduct. So between 1845, and 1862.

00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:53.000
The 7 main public schools put their rules into writing. However, different schools had different sets of rules, and even though they tried to find a common set of rules, all the published schools still continued, and still continue to this dye to play their own

00:10:53.000 --> 00:10:59.000
peculiar versions of football now having different rules.

00:10:59.000 --> 00:11:14.000
90 difficult for schools to play against one another. I often ended up playing half the game by one school set of rules, and the second half by the other schools rooms.

00:11:14.000 --> 00:11:20.000
And this is how the game became a game of 2 hearts.

00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:33.000
But when they left school many of these old boys wanted to carry on play, so they needed a standardized set of rules.

00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:40.000
Now there was one attempt standardized set of rules called the Cambridge Rules.

00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:50.000
Each public school thought that their rules, like their elite students, were superior to all others.

00:11:50.000 --> 00:12:10.000
So it was difficult to get to get them to agree on a common set of rules, and the Cambridge rules were an attempt to entice all the public schools to associate themselves with a prestigious university like Cambridge where Many of

00:12:10.000 --> 00:12:21.000
them had gone following public school, and the first game under the new Cambridge rules was played here on Parker's piece of Cambridge.

00:12:21.000 --> 00:12:29.000
I know Parks piece quite well, because it's dead opposite where I did my first degree.

00:12:29.000 --> 00:12:36.000
In kind, which is now called Anglia raskin University.

00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:58.000
But it even this didn't work as public schools continue to insist that the game be played under their schools rules, but like to own, after a series of meetings in London rep representatives for Oxford and Cambridge, and from 11 London

00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:09.000
football clubs, met at the Freemasons Tavern, and collectively wrote a common set of rules.

00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:16.000
Now these people that met were all elite gentlemen who had been to public school.

00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:25.000
How many of those public schools Charter House actually sent a webinar to the meeting.

00:13:25.000 --> 00:13:45.000
These new rules, however, were established on the 20 sixth of October, 1,863, but not until after long periods of argument, and wrangling over months of months.

00:13:45.000 --> 00:14:03.000
Nevertheless, the Football Association was established, and the first Faa Rule book was written, and the the rational recreation model of football was established.

00:14:03.000 --> 00:14:10.000
So incompetent it to folk phone.

00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:16.000
There were a number of differences with this rational recreational model.

00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:20.000
First it was highly organized. There were times of guines.

00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:28.000
There were the length of guines. There will go over laws attached to the games.

00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:34.000
They were governing parties, officials controlling the Guines clubs.

00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:38.000
All clubs had to affiliate to the Football Association.

00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:48.000
There was a regular fixture list reflecting the social organization of industrial capitalism.

00:14:48.000 --> 00:15:03.000
There were fixed seasons, although these fixed seasons didn't come about until the formation of the football league later on, and also club colors.

00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:21.000
Those I had always worn their school or university bags or cap Teams didn't always at first we are all the same colors, and after a while it began to occur to them that they would be able to distinguish between their

00:15:21.000 --> 00:15:28.000
teammates and those on the other team more easily if they all wore the same colors again.

00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:41.000
This is evidence of rational thinking. so I want to go through nature phase.

00:15:41.000 --> 00:15:52.000
So because of its origins. The modern game was originally played by X Public school, and Oxford gentlemen.

00:15:52.000 --> 00:16:00.000
In fact, the public school, educated elite of gentlemen, dominated the game.

00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:18.000
At this time the Football Association was dominated by an ex public school elite, and the next major development in football was the inauguration of the Football Association Cup.

00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:31.000
The faire Charles Allcock, a public school outboy, was founder of the Fa Cap, in 1871.

00:16:31.000 --> 00:16:39.000
This is the original fa cap. It was actually stolen in 1895.

00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:47.000
But this replica replaced it, and in 1910 it was given to Lord Canada.

00:16:47.000 --> 00:16:56.000
So his services to the development of the guy i'll talk about Lord Canal a bit with in a moment.

00:16:56.000 --> 00:17:03.000
But you can now see this replica the National Football Museum in Manchester.

00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:10.000
If you ever get to go where you could also have your picture taken with the trophy.

00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:21.000
So, as I said, the early clouds were mainly public school old boys and university graduates.

00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:30.000
The Onlytonians were one of the best sides of that peering, and this is them winning the Fi card.

00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:38.000
In 1,892, in fact, the first 11 years of the F.

00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:42.000
A cup were dominated by teams of X public schoolboys.

00:17:42.000 --> 00:18:02.000
In fact, only elite teams won the fa cap. during this period wanderers, for example, the first winners of the Fi Cup in 1871 included 4 old heroians very old.

00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:11.000
Itodians, one H. for Westminster, Charter House, Oxford, and Cambridge.

00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:18.000
The Corinthian spirit of the gentleman amateur was hegemonic.

00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:28.000
During this period it was considered ungentlemanly demand payment for playing.

00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:48.000
The only oyx wanted pay. paying and It wasn't allowed a hegemony of sportsmanship of playing the game by aristocratic notions of chivalry were encoded into the game.

00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:57.000
It was also, for example, considered cheating to trying football was a pastime.

00:18:57.000 --> 00:19:12.000
It wasn't to be taken so seriously a gentleman is someone who can wait without sweating and without a pewing to try to hard, gentlemen.

00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:24.000
It was thought, when, simply because they are naturally superior to the Oyks,

00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:35.000
So adherence to the rules was even told not cheating was supposed to be character building, although it's mostly gone.

00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:49.000
Now some of this spirit does occasionally surface to die, and also subordination took order, and leadership was inherent in the guine.

00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:56.000
The notion of Captain C was also central to elite Dallas.

00:19:56.000 --> 00:20:10.000
The captain was considered a leader of leaders of men. Now the Duke of Wellington climbed that the battle of Walter Loon was one of the plain fields of Eaton.

00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:19.000
In other words, football was used as a metaphor for supporting ruling interests in society.

00:20:19.000 --> 00:20:27.000
It was a form of moral instruction and a demonstration of elite values.

00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:35.000
Oh, players were obliged to accept the referees decision without question.

00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:53.000
Indeed, if a referee gave a penalty against the gentleman amateur team coincidence, who did more than most teams to spread the game around the world, they would withdraw their goalkeeper to allow the

00:20:53.000 --> 00:21:01.000
other team to score, because then wouldn't want to be accused of gaining an unfair advantage.

00:21:01.000 --> 00:21:12.000
But these gentlemen amateurs, what also team to spread football to the working class.

00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:28.000
So under patrician patronage. the wealthy were very infectious devotees, taking popular or vulgar games, changing their meaning or function in the public schools.

00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:35.000
And then disseminating them to commoners as respectable guides.

00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:39.000
So they were keen to see football to the working class.

00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:45.000
As long as the working class continued, continue to know their place.

00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:56.000
So, then, it was the realization of a moral ideal of the bourgeois class playing by the rules.

00:21:56.000 --> 00:22:03.000
In other words, it was a metaphor for playing by the rules of capitalism for the working class.

00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:18.000
They thought it would be character building, employing muscular Christian values, but it was also highly patronizing the way it was spread to the working class.

00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:36.000
To to give you an a couple of examples of that 2 popular magazines amongst the elite at the time, where the Sporting Gazette and the feature, and they regularly insisted the the world should not

00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:48.000
be too complex for what they described as the uncouth breadthren, or John Ball fresh from the plow.

00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:54.000
I want you to return football in a reconstructed form, as they be believed.

00:22:54.000 --> 00:23:02.000
It would be beneficial to promote class conciliation or cohesion.

00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:23.000
Bearing in mind that the Industrial Revolution, not much earlier than this, had separated the classes by creating giant urban conservations that were almost wholly working class in places like Manchester, Liverpool and the East End,

00:23:23.000 --> 00:23:45.000
of London. There was a lot of industrial strife at this time, as in industrial capitalism, was still struggling to establish it itself, and there was a great fear The disorder could break out at any moment.

00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:53.000
So I also wanted to provide an entry into bourgeois respectability.

00:23:53.000 --> 00:24:13.000
So in the words of Matthew arnold the son of Thomas Tarnell, to provided all train to bourgeois respectability, so that the working class, in his words don't wallow in this beer their

00:24:13.000 --> 00:24:23.000
gene and their fun. In other words, he saw it as part of the civilizing process.

00:24:23.000 --> 00:24:33.000
But also to spread ruling class values to the most deprived and feared working class areas.

00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:45.000
That's one of the reasons why the oldest and most successful clubs are situated in working class areas.

00:24:45.000 --> 00:25:04.000
So. there was more than a touch of social engineering in the mind of the proponents of a universal code to bring about the spirit of orderly behavior, of self-control and discipline in the masses and the other

00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:10.000
educated working classes,

00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:26.000
So they sent out missionaries to work in class areas. So much muscular Christian missionary work was done through the church, through schools and through youth clubs.

00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:36.000
You know, many ex public school boys have become teachers clerks, or they had entered the clergy.

00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:48.000
So if we take us an example, Everton, for all club, Everton started out as a Sunday School football team

00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:56.000
So also many muscular Christian missionaries became local employers.

00:25:56.000 --> 00:26:03.000
So, for example, Stoke City, cruel Alexandra and

00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:23.000
Manchester United, all started in railway companies. Coventry City, for example, emerge from the solar singer, selling machine factory and personal from the village munitions.

00:26:23.000 --> 00:26:37.000
Factoring and my team West Ham united from the an East End ship building that we pay yard

00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:47.000
But because of working class involvement. This was quiteually changing.

00:26:47.000 --> 00:26:58.000
The notion that the gentleman elite dominated the game and up until 1,883 they had.

00:26:58.000 --> 00:27:07.000
They dominate the gain that dominate its results. it dominate its dominated its governing bodies and its culture.

00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:12.000
For 20 years, but as a site because of working class involvement.

00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:19.000
This was gradually changing. Elite Teams had won the F. A.

00:27:19.000 --> 00:27:35.000
Cup for the first 11 years, from 1,871 until 1,982, until a rapture of hegemonic proportions occurred in 1,883 and the significance of

00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:51.000
the 1,883 fa cup final shouldn't be us to underestimated Lord Kinette's Olditonians lost the fa cup final after extra time 2 Blackburn

00:27:51.000 --> 00:28:03.000
Olympic. The game was a bitter struggle that went to extra time with the Olditonians.

00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:15.000
Determined not to lose to these working class oyks as I saw them, and the Olympic team determined not to suffer defeat.

00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:24.000
But for second year in the wrong, Olympics scored the winning goal in extra time.

00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:37.000
Lord Kenneth was very gracious in defeat as he had been responsible more than anyone for encouraging the working class to take up the game.

00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:52.000
He teammates, however, regarded it as an insult to their superiority, and wanted to declare the result null and void, because they said extra time.

00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:59.000
This was until Lord Canada interfed and said he wasn't having it.

00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:18.000
These working class slides like one fair and square. In fact, Blackburn, Olympic, was the first team from the north of England, and they consisted mainly of mill workers, but also weavers spinners, a

00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:29.000
dental assistant, a plumber a cop worker and an iron foundry worker, and unlike the old Deutonians.

00:29:29.000 --> 00:29:47.000
They're taken a very professional approach. to the cup final We've got to diet, and we've regard to training in Blackpool in the week before the final something that the Olditonians regarded as cheating but this was

00:29:47.000 --> 00:29:54.000
just the start of domination by Northern teens, made up mostly of working class men.

00:29:54.000 --> 00:30:04.000
In fact. Yes, I, Cap, was never won by a gentleman amateur team again.

00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:15.000
Another working class chain, blackboard rovers, then one the fa cup in the next 3 seasons.

00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:21.000
So we gradually saw the demise of elite football.

00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:33.000
Within 5 years of the Blackburn Olympic victory, Elitist football had been swept aside by tens of industrial working men.

00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:43.000
So in less than a generation working class had climbed the playing of the guy as they are.

00:30:43.000 --> 00:30:50.000
James Weldon says in his book, which is a brilliant book, Cool the people's game.

00:30:50.000 --> 00:31:06.000
No greater indication exists of the changes to English football than the fact that by the early twentieth century the Corinthians, with their top hats and kinds, were utterly exceptional.

00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:25.000
In 1880 they would have been typical. So now some old boys teams did survive, like old Wigg Estonians, for example, who, lighter went on to become less descent.

00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:32.000
But also the working class started for me with their own teams.

00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:43.000
So, for example, rather than united, were formed in 1884, by working class name under a street lamp.

00:31:43.000 --> 00:31:50.000
You know, games of young working class Men loitered the streets at night then as well as now.

00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:56.000
Industrial towns and cities became heartlands of football.

00:31:56.000 --> 00:32:05.000
Glasgow, Liverpool, Manchester, leads New Castle, West Midlands, and East London.

00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:11.000
But why had the working class of industrial towns and cities so successfully?

00:32:11.000 --> 00:32:25.000
Me a late Well, there are a number of ways, and I want to examine each of these in turn.

00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:35.000
Muscular Christianity that the working class will already devotease, of of playing football, middle class patronage.

00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:49.000
The style of play that working class people brought to the game they're coming of the railways, the saturday half day holiday for working class people and professionalism were all important.

00:32:49.000 --> 00:32:57.000
So let's look at these in turn muscular question missionary work.

00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:12.000
The colonizing zeal of the public school sportsman was directed, especially at the most deprived, and, as they saw in deprived working class aliens.

00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:30.000
So for example, as Charles Core says in his book about West Ham, united the men from Upping on flocked in droves to the East End of London on missionary social world.

00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:39.000
As a consequence, Core says, the whole area became and still is, football man.

00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:45.000
To give you. some idea of that. This is happening. Marshes.

00:33:45.000 --> 00:34:08.000
Yeah, 5. The 19 sixties. When I played there Hackney marshes in the East End of London had a 150 football pitches, and on Saturdays every one of them was hosting again so

00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:17.000
you stand of London is absolutely football mad.

00:34:17.000 --> 00:34:25.000
And that happened in in other areas as well. Was it actually a new game that was brought to

00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:45.000
The working class, and they are those historians that argue that football wasn't simply an app upper class transplant onto working class communities that, despite the suppression of folk football, it had remind remarkably resilient in

00:34:45.000 --> 00:35:04.000
a more clandestine full. Oh, Sha! Also, as you, Cunningham says, It is true that those local traditional annual matches, ranging over huge spaces and involving whole populations, how had for the most part been

00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:08.000
abolished during the first half of the century in the nineteenth century.

00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:21.000
That is, but it seems highly likely that the more casual practice of kicking a bowl around practice much closer to the modern game of football had survived. I'm.

00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:26.000
Not a casual practice, of course, that continued late into the twentieth century.

00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:35.000
I can remember as I'm sure many of you can kicking a bowl around in the street with jumpers for gold posts when when I was a kid.

00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:44.000
Oh, so, as I said, the patronage of the bourgeois classes was important.

00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:56.000
For a while, so the facilities of the sponsorship provided by the bourgeois class employers chances, etc., was vital.

00:35:56.000 --> 00:36:06.000
Darling in mind that football was largely black band in public parts.

00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:19.000
But this didn't employ submission to the values of the rolling classes, as as we will.

00:36:19.000 --> 00:36:32.000
On the contrary, as we will say, as Cunningham says, the working class, for lack of any alternative, was prepared to accept along as as long as necessary.

00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:40.000
The fact of middle class sponsorship, but not its ideology.

00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:47.000
So part of the album flow of hegemonic struggle was transforming.

00:36:47.000 --> 00:36:55.000
Football into a means of expressing ideas in opposition to coincidence values.

00:36:55.000 --> 00:37:17.000
So rather than working, class leisure, being colonized by the middle classes, reconstructed for, always colonized by the working class and impregnated with working class values.

00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:41.000
Oh, so The values of that were the working class book to the game were more likely to be successful. As John Hargory says in his book, Working class football was characterized by vociferous partisanship a premium

00:37:41.000 --> 00:37:53.000
on victory, a suspicion of an a disdain for constituted authority, a lack of veneration for official rules.

00:37:53.000 --> 00:38:01.000
Mutual solidarity is the basis of teamwork, a preference for tangible monetary rewards for effort.

00:38:01.000 --> 00:38:07.000
And a hedonistic, vulgar festival.

00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:15.000
Now you can probably recognize some of these values in today's game.

00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:25.000
So in the making and the remaking of working class culture and i'll talk about Ap.

00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:34.000
Thompson. In a moment football became, in the word of Arthur Hotcraft in his book, the Football Man of another great book.

00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:42.000
It became not so much an opia of the people as a flag run up against the gaffer.

00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:47.000
Bolting his gates, and the Landlord armed with his balance in E. P.

00:38:47.000 --> 00:39:06.000
Thompson's book the making of the English working class. he suggests that in terms of its culture class is not a thing, but class is something that's constantly being made and remained so, giving the ruling classes a good

00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:16.000
thrashing on the football pitch was away for the working class of at least getting a small bit of revenge.

00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:35.000
I'm making the ruling classes feel uncomfortable for all the privations that they had visited on working class people

00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:48.000
Oh, styles of play were in port! so individualism or a heroic endeavor was characteristic of the gentleman.

00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:55.000
Amateur guine. Consequently the dribbling guy dominated elite football.

00:39:55.000 --> 00:40:13.000
It was about heroic endeavor. So to give you an example of that, the winning goal in the 1,874 varsity guy was scored by an opium who had dribbled the

00:40:13.000 --> 00:40:22.000
whole length of the pitch, However, the working class put greater emphasis on teamwork.

00:40:22.000 --> 00:40:36.000
The working costs were more used to divisions of live in their working life, but also they were more used to collectivist values, you know, through trade unions, through community values.

00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:45.000
And so these were more in keeping with working class experiences.

00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:58.000
So it seems to me there is no accident that within 2 years of the tripling guy being superseded by what's sometimes called the great transformation of football style.

00:40:58.000 --> 00:41:10.000
By the more effective passing game. it's no accident it seems to me that the working class came to dominant football.

00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:18.000
However, there were some who argue that geography was the more decisive back time.

00:41:18.000 --> 00:41:37.000
It was the Scots who had perfected the passing guy That's why Scotland be England more times the vice versa in international matches for the first 20 years, when professionalism kind.

00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:43.000
Many English clubs employed what they called Scottish professors.

00:41:43.000 --> 00:42:02.000
From the industrial heartlands of Scotland, and right up, and children are a constant stream of Scottish players move, moving south to English clubs, but also an important factor was improved.

00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:13.000
Transport, improve transport facilitated the possibility of regular fixedualists for working class teams.

00:42:13.000 --> 00:42:19.000
The building of the railways, in particular, was crucial before the railways were built.

00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:27.000
In the nineteenth century most people rarely moved out of the communities in which they lived.

00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:38.000
Eventually pretty well. were providing football specials to take fans as well as players to a way guides.

00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:44.000
And these football specials was still running up until the 19 eighties.

00:42:44.000 --> 00:43:02.000
So you can see here the expansion of the railway system between 1,851 and 1881, which was a crucial time for the development of football amongst the working class.

00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:11.000
But the development of travel bathrooms was also in port, also

00:43:11.000 --> 00:43:17.000
The Saturday half day Holiday was important in the mid nineteenth century.

00:43:17.000 --> 00:43:22.000
It was common for men to work 72 h a week.

00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:27.000
In other words, 6 days a week, 12 h a day. out.

00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:34.000
Of course football on Sunday was banned and it was banned until 1960.

00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:43.000
So there was no time to play football but strikes.

00:43:43.000 --> 00:43:51.000
During this period, just after the mid nineteenth century, led to the winning of the Saturday.

00:43:51.000 --> 00:44:05.000
Half day holiday, first by clocks and skilled workers in the 18 seventies, then by semi-skilled workers in the 18 eighties, and then by most laborers.

00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:28.000
In the it the lack what's the result of what's called New Unionism, which was the birth of very large general trade unions, mostly marxist orientated and committed to militant policies, and action, so during

00:44:28.000 --> 00:44:37.000
this period there were waves upon ways of national strikes in the 1,800 eightys in particular.

00:44:37.000 --> 00:44:49.000
Including a national dock Strike Gas Workers National Gas Workers strike deployment and Ma match girls strike and soul.

00:44:49.000 --> 00:45:02.000
So most of the by this time it achieved the 56 h week which gave the first opportunities for organizing leisure.

00:45:02.000 --> 00:45:09.000
And that's why 3 o'clock on a saturday became the normal or kickoff time.

00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:18.000
It gave working men time to get home from work to have some lunch to get changed and to get to a football.

00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:37.000
Are those players or spectators, and until we recently, of course, virtually all games kicked off at 3 o'clock on a Saturday, so the wisdom of the seasons, the traditional Tro Trove time got had been replaced

00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:40.000
by the rhythm of the weekly fixture list.

00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:50.000
This was part of the shift from the rhythms of traditional society to the rhythms of modernity.

00:45:50.000 --> 00:46:01.000
Lastly, was the advent of professionalism

00:46:01.000 --> 00:46:07.000
Through the notion of the gentleman amateur, the elite had been able to dominate the guy.

00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:18.000
It was the elite who decided how clubs should operate, and as a consequence they were always at an advantage.

00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:26.000
They don't dominated not only the way it was played, but also the vote, the rules, and they established and ran the governing body.

00:46:26.000 --> 00:46:44.000
The Football Association and by outlawing professionalism by what were able to exclude working class players, or least curtail their ability to compete on a level playing field.

00:46:44.000 --> 00:46:59.000
So, as Gary Wannell says in his book: The enshrine of the distinction between the amateur and the professional meant that gentlemen of leisure had a huge and permanent advantage over those whose work left

00:46:59.000 --> 00:47:10.000
little time for training and preparation, plus the fact that working class players were probably sharing out from their long hours of work.

00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:21.000
But of course we're much less fit because of the conditions that most working class people were raised in and into it during their lives, you know.

00:47:21.000 --> 00:47:28.000
So, for example, there was no free access to healthcare, which, of course, meant no healthcare at all.

00:47:28.000 --> 00:47:39.000
So the gradual breaking of the gentleman amateur code was vital for working class appropriation of the game.

00:47:39.000 --> 00:47:48.000
And it was this that also led to the gentleman amateurs, abandoning the guine in disgust.

00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:53.000
What vice, or as the perversion of their good works.

00:47:53.000 --> 00:48:00.000
And so it was that between 1880 and 1910 J.

00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:09.000
30 years the football became a central part of working class culture.

00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:20.000
Finally, I just want to say that much of this with specific regard to my club, West Ham united, you can read about in this new book.

00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:27.000
So this is a bit of promotional stuff they're not just had published.

00:48:27.000 --> 00:48:37.000
Okay, so that's, it, that's the end of the presentation. Thanks very much, Jack, and I don't know if you want to stop screen sharing now, and we'll have a look at some questions.

00:48:37.000 --> 00:48:41.000
And that was really a opening, and not sure about anyone else.

00:48:41.000 --> 00:48:45.000
But I certainly had no idea in about the game having its roots in the upper classes.

00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:51.000
Interesting that back. Then, as you said, that players were expected to accept the reflection without question.

00:48:51.000 --> 00:49:02.000
That certainly changed a little bit. hasn't it so right okay, let's have a look at some questions.

00:49:02.000 --> 00:49:05.000
No, i've got a couple of questions I think that are quite similar.

00:49:05.000 --> 00:49:13.000
Actually i'll read both of them out and then you can give us your your thoughts. You've kind of touched on some of this already.

00:49:13.000 --> 00:49:22.000
Question from John. Do you think many working players were taken in by the social engine eating even today middle and working class Professionally, football is rear.

00:49:22.000 --> 00:49:32.000
Even their massive wages rarely propel them into the upper class elite, and then also from Helen who's saying, You know it?

00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:39.000
It is astonishing that pretty much a 100% of British football is a working class.

00:49:39.000 --> 00:49:44.000
And yet this is not the case in Europe. and she gives the example of Jim Jian.

00:49:44.000 --> 00:50:00.000
Look at the Alley who was brought up in a castle I didn't know that. so what's your kind of take on that Dakota me Well, first of all I mean we're were they taken in

00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:11.000
by upper class social engineering, I think that's a difficult question to answer without kind of, you know, transporting myself back to that time to ask.

00:50:11.000 --> 00:50:27.000
But my feeling is that it's kind of 50 50 perhaps they were taken into some extent by that social engineering, because the muscular Christian missionaries didn't just use football I use the Bible.

00:50:27.000 --> 00:50:32.000
They used you know, other working class leisure.

00:50:32.000 --> 00:50:45.000
They provided public parks, and so on. So to some extent, I think the working class will take, I mean, but I think because you know, working class values were very different.

00:50:45.000 --> 00:50:51.000
I infused the the game with their their their own values.

00:50:51.000 --> 00:51:04.000
But I don't think that you know There was some working cost people that were probably more enlightened than others about what the middle and upper classes were attempting to do.

00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:10.000
So you know, perhaps a mixture as far as why.

00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:14.000
Why, working class in England, I think you know the game started in.

00:51:14.000 --> 00:51:29.000
Well, the modern game started in this country, but if you look at the history of folk, football folk, football was played throughout Europe, in various phones, in France, in Italy, and so on.

00:51:29.000 --> 00:51:51.000
And was that actually in Italy, for example? they There is a game called calcio which is still played today, which was an upper class guy, but he is very rough very very well, but I think so.

00:51:51.000 --> 00:52:06.000
I think the reason one of the reasons why it's mainly working class in this country and not necessarily in other countries is because because of the specific history.

00:52:06.000 --> 00:52:24.000
Oh, of the time in this country. but yeah I mean it's quite true that it's not you know the virtually all professional footballers in this country not the phone class that have come in but you know certainly those who grew up

00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:31.000
in Britain. come from working class backgrounds and there's certain areas. I mean.

00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:41.000
Yesterday we were in South London, for example, where you could throw a blanket over that area and come up with a dozen Premier League footballers.

00:52:41.000 --> 00:52:54.000
So i've got what was gonna say then Yeah, So you know, we you know they start out as working class.

00:52:54.000 --> 00:53:03.000
But you know It's a question that I deal dealt with in the course that I used to take about whether they're still working class.

00:53:03.000 --> 00:53:15.000
Once they become multi millionaires and you know we've just clients now being offered £400,000 a week.

00:53:15.000 --> 00:53:22.000
And many of them from working class backgrounds. Are they still working class?

00:53:22.000 --> 00:53:29.000
Well, I mean that depends on how you define class that's a whole, not like job.

00:53:29.000 --> 00:53:38.000
Okay, thanks, Jack. Okay. No, and I think we've got a couple of other questions.

00:53:38.000 --> 00:53:49.000
No! these are a a question from steve this is about refugees, and we're recipes ever people who look who were literally only referred to.

00:53:49.000 --> 00:53:54.000
If the players were unable to agree on decisions. So this is going back.

00:53:54.000 --> 00:54:05.000
We back. Yes, yes, I will. Yeah. when when it started in the public schools, if the 2 teams couldn't agree, they'd defer to a referee.

00:54:05.000 --> 00:54:10.000
In fact, there was. Originally there were 2 referees.

00:54:10.000 --> 00:54:15.000
There was one for each half of the pitch. so yes, they did.

00:54:15.000 --> 00:54:24.000
They did defer to the referee and say what's the decision. but and I would never question the decision of the rough worry.

00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:31.000
Not so today. Okay, question from Sue, in fact.

00:54:31.000 --> 00:54:38.000
So, too, sort of questions from sue what's the early winning by working class teams.

00:54:38.000 --> 00:54:43.000
Even more especially touched on this a little bit even more of an achievement, as they had to do.

00:54:43.000 --> 00:54:53.000
The hard manual work as well as play, where the amateurs and at what point did it become professional in the working class game?

00:54:53.000 --> 00:55:00.000
Well, if we take Blackburn Olympic, for example.

00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:04.000
2 of them Pliers had been brought in from Scotland.

00:55:04.000 --> 00:55:15.000
Now the team on the face of it were not professional, but they were offered a job.

00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:32.000
They were offered jobs in a local factory Blackburn. very good wages if they would play for Blackburn, Olympic and you know, if I would help train the rest of the team.

00:55:32.000 --> 00:55:50.000
I'm just rackie mark right now to think of the names of those 2 players I can't. but anyway, so you know it, it I won't professional as such you know that they would give inducements like that plus

00:55:50.000 --> 00:55:59.000
also, even though they were amateur they were often given expenses.

00:55:59.000 --> 00:56:07.000
And those expenses was sometimes very generous expenses.

00:56:07.000 --> 00:56:20.000
And and this was, and then so those that were in charge of the Fi elite decided eventually to ban even the paying of expenses.

00:56:20.000 --> 00:56:33.000
And what what happened Basically, what happened was the work in class team said, Well, you know, if this is what's going to happen, we'll set up the football League.

00:56:33.000 --> 00:56:39.000
They set up the football league which the elite gentleman didn't want anything to do with it.

00:56:39.000 --> 00:56:54.000
Where professionalism became part of and the football league was so successful that a gentleman amateur, you know, had had to relinquish control of the guy.

00:56:54.000 --> 00:56:58.000
But the control of they will relinquish control of playing the game.

00:56:58.000 --> 00:57:13.000
But they still held onto control of the Football Association for a while, and then the Football Association was kind of taken over by the middle class people rather than upper class people.

00:57:13.000 --> 00:57:33.000
And I mean, even when I was a kid, these people that came down from the Fa to watch games, they were known as the Blaze, because, you know, they dressed like middle class people in Lisa and Chess and ties how do I answer the question,

00:57:33.000 --> 00:57:46.000
piano. I think so. and so. At what point did the professionalism actually come in then, with the ?

00:57:46.000 --> 00:57:52.000
Okay, yeah. professionalism had established itself by then.

00:57:52.000 --> 00:58:00.000
Okay, no let's see. I think We might have another couple of questions, and then we'll help me to wrap up a thanks in since we started to be believe so.

00:58:00.000 --> 00:58:08.000
Can you say anything? This is from Andrew, and can you say anything about the clothes of football latches?

00:58:08.000 --> 00:58:14.000
Presumably the fact Working class clubs attracted much bigger grades helped to best of success.

00:58:14.000 --> 00:58:24.000
Yeah, It's interesting. The one of the things about the Blackburn Olympic victory which disturbed many of the elite was the Blackburn.

00:58:24.000 --> 00:58:29.000
Olympic bought thousands of supporters down for black with them.

00:58:29.000 --> 00:58:43.000
About 2,000, I think and they were very partisan, and this was against the spirit of the game was considered to be against the spirit of the guy.

00:58:43.000 --> 00:58:56.000
And yeah One of the things about the working class, you know.

00:58:56.000 --> 00:59:01.000
Adopting the game was that in the late nineteenth century.

00:59:01.000 --> 00:59:05.000
At first it was only a minority of working class people.

00:59:05.000 --> 00:59:15.000
The adopted. The guy far more adopted watching the game became spectators and the crowds group.

00:59:15.000 --> 00:59:26.000
I think the the fa cup final in it. So some 71 was watched by 2,000 people.

00:59:26.000 --> 00:59:37.000
Boy. The first part of the twentieth century clouds had climbed to something like 80,000 a cop.

00:59:37.000 --> 00:59:54.000
Find them and of course the first Wembley fa cup final in 1,923 was attended by an estimated because lots of working class people broke in without tickets.

00:59:54.000 --> 00:59:58.000
You know, they said hulganism was started in the sixties.

00:59:58.000 --> 01:00:08.000
No, it didn't there was an estimate 250,000 in Wembley that guy have a human touch line.

01:00:08.000 --> 01:00:23.000
So by the First World War it was taking off, and of course a lot of it was closed down during the First World War and it we started after the First World War when crowds became huge.

01:00:23.000 --> 01:00:40.000
Yeah, I've just noticed actually in the chat someone It's Steve not toll one of the most respected teachers at my school in Hackney, in the 19 seventies was Lori Leslie West dam player of

01:00:40.000 --> 01:00:47.000
the year 1,961 and Scotland team player from a topnam hotspace porter.

01:00:47.000 --> 01:01:00.000
It's funny because only yesterday I was writing about lori Leslie, because Leslie Leslie was the player that inspired me to become a goalkeeper.

01:01:00.000 --> 01:01:15.000
So isn't that strange Okay, right just looking at the time. and one quick question here from Mark is it not the case that nowadays public schools play Rugby rather than football.

01:01:15.000 --> 01:01:31.000
I think that's probably right. isn't it yeah I mean when when they abandoned the the the modern game of football, they did 2 things public schools I continue playing there own versions of football.

01:01:31.000 --> 01:01:39.000
And if you go to Eaton or haran or Westminster today, you'll see them applying their own versions.

01:01:39.000 --> 01:01:50.000
Football, but also most of those public, because the division between football and that you was how many gradually came about.

01:01:50.000 --> 01:02:00.000
You know. there's this myth that William Webex and Ellis picked the bowl up. Pick the ball up and man with it.

01:02:00.000 --> 01:02:12.000
And so rumpy was created that's myth there There were kind of rules that you know some schools where you could handle the ball as well as kick the board.

01:02:12.000 --> 01:02:17.000
So. so the distinction between Rugby and football only became a that came about gradually.

01:02:17.000 --> 01:02:26.000
But when the upper class is abandoned, what they abandoned football in its modern form.

01:02:26.000 --> 01:02:45.000
Yes, they took out more ramp the Union, and that the Union became, You know, the the upper class game, and it still is applied mostly in public schools, whereas Rugby League, which is played mostly in the North of England became the

01:02:45.000 --> 01:02:56.000
working class game of rugby and interesting like one phase question, And then we're gonna wrap things up cause that will then mean we've got through all the questions which is good.

01:02:56.000 --> 01:03:02.000
And this is this is a question about women's football from Steve, and he says,

01:03:02.000 --> 01:03:13.000
I know that until the if they stamped it out women's, football had to become very popular among both players and spectators.

01:03:13.000 --> 01:03:21.000
When did it start to become popular? I presume that when it originally started to become popular?

01:03:21.000 --> 01:03:26.000
Well, actually, this is another lecture that I do on on women's, football.

01:03:26.000 --> 01:03:36.000
The history of Women's football women played football from its inception when working class men start playing football.

01:03:36.000 --> 01:03:57.000
So so did women, and there was women's teams in the nineteenth century. But women's football became extremely popular during the first World War, because men were a wire at The front women were Both into factories

01:03:57.000 --> 01:04:17.000
particularly munitions factories. They started forming factory teams to play against one another, and a lot of those games were to try and raise money ex servicemen that were injured during the second World war and one of the

01:04:17.000 --> 01:04:34.000
most famous change of that Era were called Dick Kurz ladies and Dick Kurz ladies were so successful they became ambassadors for Women's football throughout the world.

01:04:34.000 --> 01:04:39.000
They traveled the world playing the the the winning sky.

01:04:39.000 --> 01:04:47.000
And you know one of their most famous players. Lily.

01:04:47.000 --> 01:04:58.000
Paul was an extremely good footballer, a best football or ever, but it became so popular, and, in fact, a lot of people don't realize this.

01:04:58.000 --> 01:05:08.000
But in the early 1,900 twenties some games we're attracting as crowds of 80,000 spectators.

01:05:08.000 --> 01:05:25.000
And but the fi didn't like this because it was dominated by name, and so that banned football a night band, clubs affiliated to the fi allowing women's football to take place,

01:05:25.000 --> 01:05:45.000
on their grounds. Now it did continue in a very clandestine form for 50 years after that, but it didn't die out, but virtually died out until the 1,966 world cup inspired many women to

01:05:45.000 --> 01:05:52.000
start playing again, and in 1971 because of pressure from women's tame.

01:05:52.000 --> 01:05:59.000
The game was unbanned, but even then the fi took a very patronizing attitude to the women's game.

01:05:59.000 --> 01:06:07.000
Right up until probably about 5 years ago. So they had to struggle to establish their game.

01:06:07.000 --> 01:06:16.000
Nice being on an equal footing to men and it still isn't on an equal it's getting there, though, isn't it?

01:06:16.000 --> 01:06:19.000
It's getting now. Yeah, okay, folks, I think that's us for tonight.

00:00:08.000 --> 00:00:20.000
Okay, Well, thank you, Fiona and Thank you, Everybody for allowing me to be here this afternoon to take a very brief journey around Australia and

00:00:20.000 --> 00:00:27.000
Look at some of the art works by some of the various diverse groups of first nations people that we have in Australia.

00:00:27.000 --> 00:00:42.000
I'm going to share my screen now, and I also just want to mention that, should you have any issues with my sound when anything like that, if you could just pop a note in the comments and hopefully, if you and we'll be able, to

00:00:42.000 --> 00:00:47.000
sort of help. address that for you also if you suddenly.

00:00:47.000 --> 00:00:55.000
See it. i've quickly grabbed my ear phones it's because the village hall next door are rehearsing their play, and if they start to get a little bit loud, I don't want it to interfere with

00:00:55.000 --> 00:01:00.000
the lecture, so I apologize. if I suddenly put some air phones on.

00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:10.000
So let's get started this evening, on our look at aboriginal art, and I want to begin if my screen will move forward.

00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:19.000
Come along. computer play nicely worked earlier it's a good stuff isn't it pressing away.

00:01:19.000 --> 00:01:29.000
Here we go. let's see why is it this back to rehearsal literally 5 min ago.

00:01:29.000 --> 00:01:34.000
So now, what's happening here? Hang on let me try and let me just try something here.

00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:47.000
Okay with that, with that , Okay, apologies for that So I'd like to begin this evening in the spirit of reconciliation by acknowledging australia's first nations, people as the traditional

00:01:47.000 --> 00:01:55.000
custodians of country throughout Australia, and acknowledge their connections to land, sea, and community.

00:01:55.000 --> 00:02:06.000
I would like to pay my respect to the elders past and present and extend that respect to all aboriginal and toy straight iron into people today.

00:02:06.000 --> 00:02:09.000
That that acknowledgement has now become a quite a standard.

00:02:09.000 --> 00:02:15.000
Actually to make in Australia, and I know we're not on aboriginal soil.

00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:31.000
This evening, but it is important for me to make that acknowledgement, because it helps me place aboriginal people first in this presentation that i'm about to make one of the other things I wanted to point out before we

00:02:31.000 --> 00:02:36.000
get started is that aboriginal? Australia is not a homogeneous group.

00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:48.000
There were before Cook landed on Australian soil, approximately 250 language groups, and around about 6 to 800 different dialects.

00:02:48.000 --> 00:03:06.000
Each of these language groups was a different country it was a different community plan tribe, a different people, and they each had their own stories, their own customs, The own way of managing the land, and what we're going to see shortly

00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:13.000
is their own artistic expressions. So we just have to remember that the aboriginal Australia is not one group.

00:03:13.000 --> 00:03:19.000
It is a multitude of countries and multitude of people.

00:03:19.000 --> 00:03:27.000
The other thing I just want to mention is, well, is this concept of the dreaming used to be called dream time.

00:03:27.000 --> 00:03:42.000
We tend not to use that word so much today, because it tends to have a connotation of the past and sort of sleepy sort of customs, when, in fact, it is very much a a current practice that is ongoing today

00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:48.000
the dreaming is not an aboriginal term it's white man's word.

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It's. it's white man's language to try to describe this complex system of beliefs and practices that informs their everyday lives.

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As as non aboriginal people. We might understand the dreaming as being the stories of creation and the interrelationship between aboriginal people and the land.

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But it's more than that and to help us try and understand that I've I've put this quote in here by an aboriginal elder by the name of Jimmy Herbert Mgalai Who's from the

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Northern territory, and she explains it as follows and i'll just read this out.

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She says, to get an insight into us is necessary to understand something about our major religious belief.

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The Jacoba. The Jacoba is an all-embracing concept that provides rules for living a moral code as well as rules for interacting with the natural environment.

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The philosophy behind it is holistic. The jacoba provides for a total integrated way of life.

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It is important to understand that for mobile sorry well perry and other aboriginal people living in remote aboriginal settlements.

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The dreaming isn't something that has been consigned to the past.

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It is a living daily reality. We, the war parry. people, believe in the Jacoba to this day.

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So for the Will Parry people. Jacoba is their language for what we would call dreaming.

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Different communities have different words for that. But another word that's gaining traction at the moment is something called the everyone, and this was a phrase that was coined by an anthropologist back in the 1,900 fiftys a

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gentleman by the name of William Staner, and he used this word the everyone to try and encapsulate the way in which dreaming is past, present, and future.

00:05:56.000 --> 00:06:03.000
All at the same time. it's everyone every time every being but again.

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It's white man's terms so when we can if possible.

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We want to try and use aboriginal language but you know it's not a language that many of us speak what I certainly don't.

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But I thought it might be useful to just explain some of the words that you might hear associated with aboriginal art.

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So let's start to have a look at some of this artwork then, and we need to understand that at the same time aboriginal art is both the oldest continuous artistic tradition, and also at the same time the

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newest movement within the world of contemporary art forms So it's the old and new or mixing together, and i'm going to start looking at one of the very old forms of artwork an artwork that's was

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traditionally painted on box, and is believed to date back to around 2,000 Bc.

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And that's this sort of style of x-ray art. It continues today, and we're we're going to look at a more contemporary pieces of X-ray art in a moment.

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But then, now the X-ray arts and style of art would be used to portray both secular creatures.

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So in this image here we've got fish and and if you look at those we can see the spine of the fish down the center, and that's what gives its Its name.

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X-ray style. but artists would also portray creation, spirits, and their ancestral beings in this style as well.

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So I want us to have a look at an artist by the name of Baile, lofty because he was very tall, bad.

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I al lofty Nagameric and he came from the Arnament, which is right at the very far north of Austria, of Northern territory in the far north of Australia.

00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:20.000
So we've got a little map here to help you sort of see that and by all was considered to be the last of the great lock painters and a custodian of knowledge for his people as an elder He officiated

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at many ceremonies, and as a teacher he spent his latter years ensuring that the knowledge that he had of his country and his people's engagement with the country was passed on to both aboriginal and

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non-aboriginal people. it's because of what he taught to filmmakers, anthropologists, botanists, linguists, all sorts of academics who went to sit and speak with him in country and we've

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been able to expand our knowledge of indigenous culture as much as we have.

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But I all started to paint onto paper in the 1,900 sixtys.

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So traditionally aboriginal artists didn't paint on paper or canvas.

00:09:03.000 --> 00:09:12.000
It's it's purely because white man came along saw the work that they were doing on rocks or on in the sand, or the they.

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It symbols on their bodies during ceremony, and deciding they thought it would look nice hanging in art galleries that we now have it on canvas, and And paper.

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So he started to paint back in the 1,900 sixtys, and the technique that he used is something called vark are a Rrk.

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We also call it cross. hatching it's very very fine brush strokes, and we can see that in this image here of an emu

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We can also see in this image the the the backbone of the Eu.

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We can see the gastrointestinal tract, the stomach

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And we can see the the bones of the thighs, the big thigh bones.

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In this particular image as well, the next image I show you we're going to be able to see better the fine brush strokes. So i'm just gonna tip the slide over this particular image here and like the last one this

00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:19.000
is using natural ochres on paper to to create this image.

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This particular one is the female black rock Waller be, and a kidna.

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Now the time of the painting, which is female black rock, Wallace and a kidna also fails to mention that there's a go on in the image as well, and a boomerang or hunting stick so we can get the

00:10:37.000 --> 00:10:45.000
idea from this that this is a secular image that's showing us creatures that can be hunted for food.

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And we can see here the very fine brush strokes I'm just going to see if I can zoom in a little bit, so you can get a better look if I zoom in on this section here for instance, and you can

00:10:58.000 --> 00:11:06.000
see how fine those brush strokes are and We can see that we've got the the lungs.

00:11:06.000 --> 00:11:19.000
We've got the stomach we've got the intestines down here by zoom back out again, and we've got that for the kangaroo and the echidna we've got the digestive system of the

00:11:19.000 --> 00:11:28.000
kidna going along here like the way out the bottom and very, very beautifully executed.

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Images. and so here we can see a really good understanding of being anatomy of

00:11:37.000 --> 00:11:45.000
These animals, but it wasn't just the secular images that baile painted this particular one here.

00:11:45.000 --> 00:11:48.000
I'll just bear with me on the moment i'm not sure whether you can all see that.

00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:56.000
But there we go. This particular image here is a painting called Emu dreaming

00:11:56.000 --> 00:12:13.000
So it's the story of how the emu lost its wings. So it's a dreaming story, and the story goes that the emu was running away from some men So here we have the emu in the center of the

00:12:13.000 --> 00:12:24.000
painting, and it's being highed by these 2 men Here they've got their hunting sticks their spears in their hand, and they're 2 dogs that are also part of the hunting party.

00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:42.000
So the Amu is running away from these people and it runs into a group of trees, and it runs into the trees so fast that it collides with some trees, and the impact of that collision forces the emu's wings to fall

00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:56.000
off, and there's the e news wings up here they've fallen off. and so that's the story of how the email lost its wings, and why they can't fly we can also see in this particular painting the

00:12:56.000 --> 00:13:11.000
artist's hands and this is a traditional technique that's particularly rock artists would do to leave their hand imprints on the rock to show that they have been there. to it's almost like their

00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:16.000
signature and what they would do is they would hold the paint in their mouth.

00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:22.000
I put their hand on the rock, and then they would basically spit and spray the paint.

00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:36.000
So they would then leave that silhouette of their hands At the end of the presentation I've put a couple of slides that have got further reading or further resources that you might like to investigate, and there's a

00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:46.000
beautiful two-part documentary that i've put the link to about by day out, and his painting and and the teaching that he did.

00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:56.000
And you can see his grandson doing that as he's setting up an exhibition of badale's work in in one of the art galleries.

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Maybe on from bark painting and originally block painting we're gonna look very briefly at dot painting, which is, I think it's the other style of aboriginal art that we're probably most familiar with

00:14:12.000 --> 00:14:32.000
This originated in a place called Paponia, which is about 150 miles northwest of Alice Springs in the central desert, and dot paintings are to westernize very beautiful very abstract images, but

00:14:32.000 --> 00:14:45.000
they're also full of symbols and say good meanings and there's certain images that we won't ever be able to see, because their ceremony or their men's business or it's women's business and they won't

00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:50.000
share those particular images. that that there's you know specifically for them.

00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:59.000
But the way that this particular style of painting kind of got to public attention was back in the early 19 seventies.

00:14:59.000 --> 00:15:13.000
That was a teacher by the name of Jeffrey Barden, who was working up in California, and he noticed that quite often the children from the school that he was teaching at would so believe the school and go and sit with the elders

00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:20.000
who were drawing patterns in the sand as he started to investigate.

00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:23.000
He learnt, but it wasn't just patterns that they were drawing.

00:15:23.000 --> 00:15:30.000
They would tell stories and singing song lines and passing on knowledge to the children.

00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:42.000
And so he approached them and asked them if they would be interested in painting a mural on the wall of the school, and you know, using one of their stories to to do that which they did.

00:15:42.000 --> 00:15:59.000
This This is a photograph here of some of the men that painted the honey and dreaming story on the outside of the the school, and that was the beginning of the Paponia taller art movement which continues today.

00:15:59.000 --> 00:16:04.000
1972. They established their own company.

00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:08.000
It continues today, and it's run entirely by aboriginal artists.

00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:13.000
There's about 120 aboriginal artists I think now and

00:16:13.000 --> 00:16:19.000
They had all the directors of the organizational aboriginal elders as well.

00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:31.000
So it's a completely autonomous organization one of the best known of the artists to come out of the the central desert.

00:16:31.000 --> 00:16:41.000
And Paponia was a chat. by the name of Clifford Possum, Japaljari and Clipper Possum is in all major collections in Australia.

00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:49.000
He's in international collections as well and he was working back in the early 19 seventies.

00:16:49.000 --> 00:17:02.000
He was working on a cattle station not far from California, and he would go to Paponia to visit his brother and his cousin, and he saw the artists there, and he got quite interested in what they were doing and started to

00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:11.000
explore the artwork, and he became very good at it, and he became a leading name in the area.

00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:26.000
And one of the things that Clifford Possum did was he actually started to put together a lexicon of all the symbols that were used to tell the story of his country, and all the story that he told the most was possum dreaming that was

00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:41.000
sort of his story his family stored. They were custodians of, and in this particular image, which would possum dreaming from 1919, 80, something there with me a minute, 1983 sorry.

00:17:41.000 --> 00:17:46.000
And we can see in here we can see the possums footprints.

00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:55.000
Okay, So this this line here, this is the the mark in the sand that the possums tail leaves as it's crossing through country.

00:17:55.000 --> 00:18:09.000
And these are the possums footprints and we've got water holes that it comes across as it's searching for food, and all these different colors are the different vegetation that is in country But the possum would

00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:19.000
cross through. Now it is possible that this is the foliage throughout all seasons.

00:18:19.000 --> 00:18:24.000
I haven't found anything specifically to say that this is what Clifford Possum was doing.

00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:39.000
But shortly we're going to see another art another painting. that's another desert painting, but from a different area, and they talk about how that is all the seasons all in one painting.

00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:50.000
And it is possible that what we're seeing here is sort of foliage after it's been burnt foliage when it's in full flower, and we'll see that again shortly this is another one of

00:18:50.000 --> 00:19:01.000
Clifford parsons possum dreaming paintings this one's from 1994, and again we can see the person's footprints.

00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:05.000
But we also have man's footprints human footprints in here.

00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:17.000
So in this particular painting it's possible that we've not only got the possum traveling through the land looking for his food, and in this case we've got the poster's food here, So this is the

00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:29.000
vegetation with the barriers and flowers at the bottom would eat. but it's possible that we've also got man tracking the possum for food, because they would eat possum as a as a source of

00:19:29.000 --> 00:19:37.000
protein. And again, you know, the colors are just phenomenal, really, and these paintings are huge.

00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:39.000
This paintings over 3 meters by 2 meters.

00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:56.000
It is a big painting and when it was exhibited in the art gallery of South Australia rather than it being hung on the wall, which is what we were doing Western art traditions, it was exhibited on the floor, so that

00:19:56.000 --> 00:20:10.000
we were able to actually view it as it was painted because these paintings are painted with the canvas on the floor, and the artists sitting cross-legged next to the canvas painting with their paint and

00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:22.000
the stick, and there's a wonderful story about How somebody once bought Clifford Possum Japaljari, an amazing sable head paint brush to help him create these beautiful images.

00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:29.000
And the first thing he did was break the brush bit off, and just use the stick, because that was all he needed for the dots was the stick.

00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:45.000
He didn't need a fancy brush so we're going to move on now, and we're going to look beyond the dots, and whilst the dots of the central desert and the rock painting of

00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:50.000
Arnem land might be what we traditionally associate with aboriginal art.

00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:57.000
We can find all sorts of artworks. a lot of contemporary artists today are soed in Western art style.

00:20:57.000 --> 00:21:02.000
So we're gonna see portraiture we're gonna see sculpture.

00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:05.000
I don't actually have any photography included in this presentation.

00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:12.000
But there are some phenomenal aboriginal artists whose medium is photography as well.

00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:21.000
So we're going to start by looking at something that is a little bit similar to the dot painting, but also quite different.

00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:34.000
Been looking at artworks that have been created by one artist at a time, and the next 2 groups that we're going to look at are collectives.

00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:42.000
So this particular painting here was painted by 8 women at the same time.

00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:48.000
And this is Women's business this is women telling the story of their land.

00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:58.000
As well as the 7 sisters song story i'm going to move on to the next slide, because that's a much vega image.

00:21:58.000 --> 00:22:03.000
So while I'm talking, you can just be having a looking look at this marvelous painting, and i'll go into a detail with it.

00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:11.000
I'm just come to here for a moment so that gives you a better sort of image of what we're talking about.

00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:19.000
But the 7 Sisters song cycle is an important story in aboriginal culture in Australia.

00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:34.000
It's the story of some 7 sisters who are being pursued by a man he wanted to marry one of the sisters, but they were of the long skin group, and so it would have been against their law for him to marry

00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:48.000
them. so in order to protect the sister that he wanted to marry all 7 sisters fled across country and it's the play D's Constellation, the Star Constellation and it's the play d's as it

00:22:48.000 --> 00:23:06.000
crosses the Australia, Nice guy being pursued by the morning scar, which is the man who's chasing the sister that he wants to marry; and as the sisters also from the central desert over towards the coast of western Australia, they stop at various

00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:16.000
places. When they're tired, and in stopping they form rocks, they form trees, they form water holes, and then they move on.

00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:37.000
Once they've rested, and they they carry on over towards the coast, and in this particular painting here at the very top you can see 7 little circles and that's the 7 sisters and just below them just here

00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:41.000
we've got the man that's pursuing them.

00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:49.000
But this painting is more than the song line it's also an encyclopedic knowledge of country.

00:23:49.000 --> 00:23:54.000
I'm gonna go back to a quote now from one of the artists.

00:23:54.000 --> 00:24:08.000
This is the artist statement and i'll read this out the artists say we are sisters, mothers, daughters, grandmothers, aunties, and naces.

00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:13.000
We are painters. we are more to women caring from our country.

00:24:13.000 --> 00:24:25.000
We hunt in this country to look after it. we burn, then gather the bush fruit, we burn it, and the animals eat the wauwau, the green shoots.

00:24:25.000 --> 00:24:33.000
Then they get fat, and we hunt and eat the animals. Noana kangaroo, busted cat.

00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:38.000
We all are telling lots of stories about hunting in the Pangu area.

00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:45.000
All of the women putting their stories together on a big canvas it's a special to teach others.

00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:53.000
Martin and non-marto. We live now, and also have in this country this country is us.

00:24:53.000 --> 00:24:57.000
We need to share it and talk about it and protect it.

00:24:57.000 --> 00:25:06.000
Keep it strong. And so, as I mentioned, there was 8 women painting this image, and as they painted they they talked.

00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:16.000
They told the stories of land they shared their knowledge, they laughed, they ate, they mourned the loss of friends and family that died while the painting was being created.

00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:20.000
It took them 8, 10 days to paint this particular painting.

00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:30.000
People came and visited them and and looked at it if we look we can see what I was saying about how it's all seasons represented in one.

00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:41.000
Go, because over here, down in this area here this quite bright colors patchwork down here that's recently burnt country.

00:25:41.000 --> 00:25:51.000
So it's recently burnt country with new new growth. just starting to come through up over here fortunately. it's just behind.

00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:54.000
So let me just gonna see if I can get rid of that.

00:25:54.000 --> 00:26:05.000
Sorry. There we go over here. we've got the black ash a very recent burnt area, and they talk about how this is good when you're wanting to hunt.

00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:10.000
Go on because you can really see the tracks in that ash over here.

00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:18.000
We've got foliage that's 2 or 3 years it's been burnt, and we're starting to get the bush fruit.

00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:31.000
We growing here. So we've got bush plums and native currents and all sorts of foods starting to grow here again after a couple of years of a fire.

00:26:31.000 --> 00:26:43.000
And then over here in this bit we've got sand hills and in here we get wattle growing, and the seeds are edible, and we're told that Wichita grubs live in the roots So again,

00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:55.000
another food source. This section up here is the community oval so we're we're seeing the whole community the whole land, and we're seeing different seasons all in the same time.

00:26:55.000 --> 00:27:03.000
The white lines that divide this painting are the creek beds to hear.

00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:10.000
And here we've got the creek beds and then this circle here and here and another one. just here.

00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:14.000
These are the walls. So it's really important knowledge that the Mar.

00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:24.000
2 women are sharing with the younger women, so that they understand how to live and look after their country.

00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:29.000
So good. Move on from that group of women to another group of women.

00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:34.000
Another collective, and this time the Chompy desert waivers.

00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:43.000
And those of you that might be cany enough to quickly count the numbers of sculptures that they're holding up.

00:27:43.000 --> 00:27:51.000
There's 7 and that's because this is another song system 7 Sisters song story that we've got just there.

00:27:51.000 --> 00:27:56.000
So this is a dip. How another community in a different area or representing it.

00:27:56.000 --> 00:28:01.000
So we've we've started up up up here in Arnham.

00:28:01.000 --> 00:28:09.000
Land. we've moved down here into the Desert for the dots. The last ladies we saw from Roburn were over here.

00:28:09.000 --> 00:28:17.000
The Mar 2 women, and we now down here, and the area actually crosses over into the northern territory.

00:28:17.000 --> 00:28:31.000
South Australia and Western Australia. this particular area where the chompy desert weavers and, i'm waiting with one, and remains a very important skill for aboriginal people.

00:28:31.000 --> 00:28:38.000
They weave baskets and fish traps, so they they, you know, useful implements.

00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:48.000
But they also use it for sculpture. and back in about early 19 nineties.

00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:55.000
They, A. A weaving workshop was set up in an area called Blackstone, which is in in near Calgory.

00:28:55.000 --> 00:29:04.000
In this area. on here. to teach women that had lost the techniques of waving, to, to teach them how to weave again.

00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:17.000
And it it just spread like wildfire. And before they knew it they were winning international, optional, international, national, aboriginal, toistry, islander awards.

00:29:17.000 --> 00:29:28.000
This is called the chompy toyota it's for me to buy 2 meter model of a toyota.

00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:34.000
You and you can see a photograph of it there with the the women.

00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:44.000
There's children sitting in the back It sort of is a visual encapsulation of their engagement of of land.

00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:58.000
Jennifer Mitchell, one of the champion weavers, says: when we go out to get Chompy and Chompy is the word in their language for dry grass.

00:29:58.000 --> 00:30:03.000
When we go out to get Chompy we fill the car up with the ladies and kids.

00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:06.000
We get out our digging sticks, and our bill is, and everything we need.

00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:11.000
We love to get out bush. we know we will find some champion, but who knows what else?

00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:15.000
We will find Maku Witch to grabs.

00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:21.000
Oh, honors, or honey ants, or any sort of bush food.

00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:37.000
We like to be in the country with the kids, to walk around to show them different things, and to feel the country all around country is family to us, too, and when the Chompy desert weavers were awarded this

00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:41.000
aboriginal and Toy Street Island of Arts, prize in 2,005.

00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:58.000
It was the first time that fiber art had Ward been awarded recognition with this prize, and they went on again to create this phenomenal sculpture, which is again.

00:30:58.000 --> 00:31:13.000
The 7 Sisters. So you you can see how important the 7 Sisters song story is to aboriginal culture, because it is one that does get represented again and again, and again.

00:31:13.000 --> 00:31:21.000
And I don't know some of you May have been lucky enough to get down to Plymouth to the box to see the 7 Sisters song Lines Exhibition.

00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:39.000
This was one of the pieces that was on display there, and the way they make it is they use a stel and chicken wire substructure, and then they they cover it with various different things with obviously with chompy with

00:31:39.000 --> 00:31:45.000
with grass with rafia in these particular ones they've used recycled second-hand clothing.

00:31:45.000 --> 00:32:00.000
They've used fleece from sheep that they've gathered. There's eu feathers quite variety of different things that have been woven into create these sculptures, and in this particular region of

00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:17.000
Australia. The 7 sisters take the form of trees to escape the man who is pursuing them, and so we can see in these sculptures the sort of the branches of the trees and the roots of the trees as

00:32:17.000 --> 00:32:30.000
well, and and in the gallery space, just a little way off to one side is another small little sculpture sat down, and that's the man pursuing them at a at a distance.

00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:43.000
Watching them and keeping an eye on them, so that mar marvelous sculptures and and they still do weave traditional baskets and things.

00:32:43.000 --> 00:32:54.000
And again I've put a link at the end of the presentation, so you can go and see a little tutorial with one of the Chompy desert weavers as she instructs you how to get your

00:32:54.000 --> 00:33:01.000
Chompy, and weave it into a little bowl for those of you that might want to give that a go.

00:33:01.000 --> 00:33:10.000
So we've been looking at artists who are living in rural areas.

00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:19.000
The last 2 artists are going to look at are urban artists, and both of them have been schooled in traditional Western style.

00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:29.000
Art practice, and they use that to subvert to dish some of the colonial stories.

00:33:29.000 --> 00:33:38.000
Some of the settler stories about Australia's history to reinsert their people into Australian history.

00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:47.000
The first one We're going to Look at is an artist by the name of Julie Dowling, and Julie was born in Sybacco, which is Nip.

00:33:47.000 --> 00:33:51.000
What suburb of Perth and that's just down here?

00:33:51.000 --> 00:34:01.000
But have her people originally were Banda, Maya, and Julie identifies herself as and calls herself, Abandon my first nation.

00:34:01.000 --> 00:34:11.000
Woman. That's the language that she uses so again. so we've moved from up here into the center over to the

00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:15.000
I've lost my hour there we go over to Robert down to this part of Australia.

00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:22.000
And now we're looking at an artist who is based here so,

00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:27.000
Andmaya woman currently living in Perth, which is new.

00:34:27.000 --> 00:34:32.000
Our land. and julie's work engaged a lot with family history.

00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:45.000
She's a brilliant Portrait artist and This particular first one we're going to look at is portrait called Melbourne, and this is Julie's great great grandmother.

00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:50.000
It was an aboriginal woman, living at the time.

00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:57.000
The late nineteenth early twentieth century. She She died early in the early 19 hundreds.

00:34:57.000 --> 00:35:03.000
And it's a very striking Portrait that she's painted here of Melbourne.

00:35:03.000 --> 00:35:07.000
We can see Melbourne in Western clothing.

00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:14.000
She doesn't look at all happy about it she has a label on her arm.

00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:28.000
Just here, and this label is indicative of both ownership, like you would put a a luggage tag on a suitcase, but also indicative of the labeling of specimens, because Melbourne

00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:47.000
was moved around the country, and exhibited as a specimen, which was something that happened quite a lot in the nineteenth century, when aboriginal people were brought to Europe and exhibited in the the great exhibitions

00:35:47.000 --> 00:35:55.000
in in London and in in Paris, behind Melbourne we can see a sea of aboriginal faces.

00:35:55.000 --> 00:36:03.000
And and this is sort of Julie letting us know what is behind settler culture.

00:36:03.000 --> 00:36:07.000
We see a halo around melbourne as well and on that halo.

00:36:07.000 --> 00:36:11.000
We've got the ships that brought the settlers to Australia.

00:36:11.000 --> 00:36:17.000
We've got the shackles that initially were worn by prisoners, but later we're worn by aboriginal people.

00:36:17.000 --> 00:36:33.000
We can also see, and unfortunately, this doesn't come across in in sort of reproductions of Julie's work, but Julie uses a lot of glitter in her paint when she's painting additional

00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:40.000
symbols, and if I just zoom in to this section here it's not the best reproduction.

00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:48.000
I do apologize, but we can see footprints in here so traditional iconography.

00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:55.000
We can see the circle here, which is perhaps indicative of a water hole.

00:36:55.000 --> 00:37:05.000
We can see stars just over here. it's very faint but there's a lizard, so she she uses this glitter paint in a very clever way.

00:37:05.000 --> 00:37:14.000
Because it forces us to be drawn into the images, and we see something that we think we understand it.

00:37:14.000 --> 00:37:21.000
And then we look to see what's that sparkly bit and we see the story behind the initial image.

00:37:21.000 --> 00:37:36.000
So this painting, as I say, is it? I see that painting of Melbourne and Julie gives Melbourne her voice back in a way, because in 2,004 she he paints Melbourne as she would

00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:47.000
have been traditionally before settle settlement. she paints her in her native land, in her country, the kangaroo cloak and her hunting stick.

00:37:47.000 --> 00:37:51.000
She's a proud warrior woman can see the fire in the background.

00:37:51.000 --> 00:38:04.000
There's a camp in the background. and She's the gaze is very strong in in Melbourne in this particular one, and you'll also know that the title of the painting is melbourne's

00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:08.000
indigenous name, her aboriginal name it's no longer the name that white man gave her.

00:38:08.000 --> 00:38:21.000
So She's you know she's given as I said She's given Melbourne her voice back she went on Confederation. So Federations 2,001 and that was the 100 year celebration of Australia

00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:28.000
all the States of Australia coming together in 1,901, to become Australia, as we know it today.

00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:42.000
And she did this series of paintings it's 10 individual paintings that are exhibited together in in this series, and it's a member of her family for each decade of federation.

00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:50.000
So we have the portrait in the center, and we start up here with Melbourne, and we finished down here with Julie herself, with a self portator.

00:38:50.000 --> 00:39:06.000
Julie. This is her twin sister Carol in the painting next to her, and each one is a is a family member of Julius, and the background imagery reflect something that was happening at that time.

00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:27.000
So if we look closer at this one, this is the third image in the series, and this is Auntie dot 1920 to 1930, and on the back of the painting Julie has written the following words

00:39:27.000 --> 00:39:30.000
Auntie Dot, by Julie Dowling, May.

00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:35.000
2,001 acrylic red ochre and plastic on canvas.

00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:48.000
This painting shows my great auntie, Dorothy Latham, who was taken away from her Badmayer mother, and putting to an orphanage by her Wagella White father when she was 8 years old, at

00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:53.000
the time there were massacres in the Kimberly in the northwest of Wa.

00:39:53.000 --> 00:40:04.000
So we can see in the background imagery We can see soldiers, police officials here, shooting at aboriginal people.

00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:11.000
So that's the massacre that julie refers to we've got the mission as we come down.

00:40:11.000 --> 00:40:18.000
This is the mission here. the aboriginal people, and we can see Auntie Dot being taken away.

00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:27.000
So this is the story of the stolen generation so Julie's telling us that you know her family were part of the stolen generation.

00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:36.000
So they're very powerful paintings julie's paintings, and she's very well regarded again.

00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:47.000
She's in all the poor collections, both national and international. so there is a chance that you may encounter a jury downing, painting, and your travels.

00:40:47.000 --> 00:41:02.000
The last. artist I want to look at today. is another ur urban aboriginal artist and who's been schooled in in Western style, and that's Danny Mella and Danny Miller is over here

00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:22.000
He was born in Mackay on the East Coast, and Danny talks about how he has both Wh. European and aboriginal heritage, and this is reflected in his work because his work discusses ideas around shared culture.

00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:33.000
As well as colonialization and identity. His father was American and Australian, and his mother was Irish and mamma.

00:41:33.000 --> 00:41:38.000
So, Mamu are the first nations people who are in the rainforests.

00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:47.000
Up in Queensland and he's another winner of the toughest national aboriginal toll straight Islander award.

00:41:47.000 --> 00:41:56.000
So with his background. it's not surprising that his work looks at sort of ideas around the culture that we share not not just

00:41:56.000 --> 00:42:05.000
What's yours, and what's mine sort of thing Danny has for a number of years.

00:42:05.000 --> 00:42:13.000
Now adopted this blue color in all His work it's he calls it a colonizing color.

00:42:13.000 --> 00:42:27.000
This blue color didn't exist with aboriginal artists prior to white People's arrival in Australia, and one of the reasons he uses it so much is because of spode pottery.

00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:32.000
He's quite interested in this idea of how a pottery Company in England.

00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:39.000
Could utilize image rate that's sort of from the orient in its willow pattern.

00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:45.000
China create t sets in the Uk that then travel all the way over to Australia.

00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:50.000
And and sort of you know, then be used by early settlers.

00:42:50.000 --> 00:42:58.000
So this idea of culture sort of moving around the world and in this particular image here he's looking at

00:42:58.000 --> 00:43:11.000
What we share is so much is what we have differences, because this is all about how both Western culture and aboriginal cultures have secret business.

00:43:11.000 --> 00:43:23.000
So this image is of the interior of a masonic too large secret men's business inside the lodge.

00:43:23.000 --> 00:43:33.000
We've got some aboriginal men performing ceremony, secret men's, business, and so it's the similarity.

00:43:33.000 --> 00:43:40.000
The shared ideas within culture that he's looking at in in this particular painting.

00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:48.000
The blue, as I say, resonates through a lot of his work, and these images are exquisitely drawn.

00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:55.000
Danny Mala uses pastel and pencil and ink.

00:43:55.000 --> 00:44:08.000
Wash to create these images and and they're they're often filled with native animals or aboriginal people, and they're the only things that have color.

00:44:08.000 --> 00:44:21.000
The rest is this blue background? And then you've got the the birds and the the the kangaroos, and possums, and various other animals that are in in color.

00:44:21.000 --> 00:44:35.000
He did an exhibition back in 2,008, which was a kind of metropolitan of the last 10 years of the sort of work that he'd been doing.

00:44:35.000 --> 00:44:40.000
And a lot of these paintings that are that were in the image.

00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:44.000
They hark back to the early artists of of Australia.

00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:56.000
Back in the early nineteenth century that were painting images of Australia that were then sent back to to England, and very few of them had aboriginal people in them.

00:44:56.000 --> 00:45:03.000
So what Danny Miller does is he puts the aboriginal people back into the paintings.

00:45:03.000 --> 00:45:15.000
He also does these amazing sculptures of aboriginal animals and birds, and the kangaroos are something that he does.

00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:28.000
Quite a few of these and they're they're covered in mosaics, and quite often he will use broken bits of spode pottery in the mosaic and I want to finish with this particular image we're coming very

00:45:28.000 --> 00:45:41.000
close to the jubilee so it's probably quite appropriate that we have an installation that's called red, white, and blue, reflecting the colors of the Union Jack and the Australian flag and we have

00:45:41.000 --> 00:45:53.000
these life-sized sculptures of kangaroo here that actually have real pause there's a little bit of taxes army in this as well, because they've got real paws and real ears But

00:45:53.000 --> 00:46:02.000
the bodies are mosaic, and they made using quite a bit of speed pottery and

00:46:02.000 --> 00:46:09.000
But when we look closer at these 3 kangaroos here, I'm gonna zoom in on that.

00:46:09.000 --> 00:46:14.000
We can see that they are reflecting those infamous monkeys?

00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:19.000
They are seeing no evil, hearing no evil, and speaking no evil.

00:46:19.000 --> 00:46:38.000
And in a very clever way, danny madam is making us realize just how much we still don't acknowledge in Australia's colonial past, and the stories that we still refuse to here and see and speak about so i'm going

00:46:38.000 --> 00:46:45.000
to end there. we have got i'm just going to pop back to that.

00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:57.000
So i'll just show you that when you're looking at this presentation some further links that you can then click on to in your own time and see some videos here.

00:46:57.000 --> 00:47:10.000
The artists singing stories. and things like that but for now i'll stop sharing my screen and have free. Somebody's got some questions. Yeah, we do.

00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:13.000
That was absolutely brilliant, and telescope.

00:47:13.000 --> 00:47:29.000
, and by the way, all those links that today are just shared with you, there will make them available beside the recording on the members of the website sometime next week when we've got it already So right let's start

00:47:29.000 --> 00:47:37.000
with some questions. Shall we no where should we start no this was not let's let's give it a call.

00:47:37.000 --> 00:47:51.000
Let's see what happens. Alright So first question from veranda, And she wondered if you could maybe explain a little bit more about the concept of Songlines and song stories right that's it Yeah, Really, Really, good question,

00:47:51.000 --> 00:47:57.000
Miranda. There was a book, I think, by somebody called Bruce Chad.

00:47:57.000 --> 00:48:02.000
Well, I think if somebody knows the authors act you will know if I've got that one, please pop it in the chat.

00:48:02.000 --> 00:48:06.000
But he spoke about song lines, and he kind of create Chadwin.

00:48:06.000 --> 00:48:14.000
Thank you. He kind of created this idea that they were songs and stories and things like that.

00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:28.000
And is it not quite right to be fair? Songlines are a concept that white Australians struggle to understand, because it is something that is so alien to our life?

00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:34.000
But it is to do with dreamings and it's to do with pathways through Australia.

00:48:34.000 --> 00:48:41.000
Where ancestral spirit beings would have traveled when Australia was being created.

00:48:41.000 --> 00:48:56.000
So like the song story about the 7 Sisters. That song line travels through Australia through several different countries, with a first nations people, and the the 7 Sisters are helping to create the shape of Australia.

00:48:56.000 --> 00:49:00.000
And so they're creating landmarks they're creating water holes.

00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:13.000
They're creating rivers and so this is what these song lines are. It's all part of the original creation stories, but they're not just in the past. it's they're present as well and so these stories have to

00:49:13.000 --> 00:49:26.000
be repeated. They have to be sung, they have to walk the lines and the pathways to not only pay respect to the elder, to the the ancestors and the elders, but also to ensure that you know the spirit being that

00:49:26.000 --> 00:49:35.000
looks after the water hole, knows that they are still there, and still respecting and looking after that water hole, and continues to provide fresh water for them.

00:49:35.000 --> 00:49:46.000
So they're to do with the creation of Australia but they're also to do with the way Australia is still looked after and cared for today.

00:49:46.000 --> 00:49:55.000
It's really, really complicated and I'm Sorry that probably hasn't helped much, Miranda. absolutely it helps a little bit.

00:49:55.000 --> 00:50:02.000
Okay, Thank you, Teresa and and so following on from that We've got questions from Liz at the start of the lecture.

00:50:02.000 --> 00:50:14.000
You talked about 250 different language groups within and Australia and the peoples, and she's asking, Did all of those groups share the same spiritual ideas and stories?

00:50:14.000 --> 00:50:32.000
Or are they all different? So some are different so some are area specific So you won't get stories about saltwater alligators in the central desert, because obviously salt water. alligators don't live there so some of

00:50:32.000 --> 00:50:37.000
them are specific to areas, but some of them are universal.

00:50:37.000 --> 00:50:48.000
But the way in which they are taught so through the very ceremony, song lines, artworks will be different.

00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:53.000
So Yeah. So this is a little bit of both. Okay, Thank you.

00:50:53.000 --> 00:50:59.000
Thank you, and a question from frieda no she's asking about, and forgive me.

00:50:59.000 --> 00:51:03.000
I can't remember which painting it was that she was referring to, and there was a painting.

00:51:03.000 --> 00:51:11.000
It was quite near the start after we were talking about Copenhagen and pink footprints.

00:51:11.000 --> 00:51:16.000
Are they over women? Is that a significance of the color?

00:51:16.000 --> 00:51:31.000
No, they they don't tend to have that sort of pink for girls and blue for boys thing it's possibly more to do with the color of the sand in in that area. or the color of the vegetation is what

00:51:31.000 --> 00:51:39.000
It's more likely to be . Okay, thank you no Do we have the question from clear?

00:51:39.000 --> 00:51:47.000
Let me just scroll down so I can find it. here we are.

00:51:47.000 --> 00:51:55.000
When we were looking at the pinch of Melbourne, and by Julie doubling you'd refer to the shackles.

00:51:55.000 --> 00:52:02.000
At what point was that you talked about? You know the the settlers wearing them, and then the aboriginal people wearing them.

00:52:02.000 --> 00:52:17.000
At what point did that happen? So when the convicts were brought to Australia, so the the late eighteenth, 30, nineteenth centuries, they would have been in in shackles.

00:52:17.000 --> 00:52:37.000
Very quickly the aboriginal people were shackled, because as soon as the settlers started to click blame land for themselves, the ideas of ownership between European culture and first nations people was so different.

00:52:37.000 --> 00:52:43.000
That it. it led to to war, and and fights and and conflict.

00:52:43.000 --> 00:52:50.000
And so it it became. you know you are either killed the aboriginal people on your land, or they were imprisoned.

00:52:50.000 --> 00:52:58.000
There's an island off of Perth in Western Australia, that if any of you have been to Perth for holiday.

00:52:58.000 --> 00:53:03.000
You may well have been to Rock Nest Island. That was an aboriginal prison.

00:53:03.000 --> 00:53:08.000
For many years, and There's There's an artist by the name of Sally Morgan.

00:53:08.000 --> 00:53:21.000
If you wanted to sort of have a look at some of her work, and she's done some amazing paintings of Rottenest Island, where you see the aboriginal people under underneath in the sort of buried in the

00:53:21.000 --> 00:53:28.000
dirt in shackled, and and then the holiday makers on top of it today, having nice nice time.

00:53:28.000 --> 00:53:34.000
So it was it very. It very quickly happened with the set of cultures, because it was.

00:53:34.000 --> 00:53:40.000
It was a way they the settlers were trying to protect their land. interesting.

00:53:40.000 --> 00:53:50.000
No, we've got a question here from madeline I guess. talking about some of the the more contemporary arts that you were talking about towards them there.

00:53:50.000 --> 00:54:00.000
So she's basically asking. So is there a lot of protest in the art today, I suspect huge huge amount modeling huge amount.

00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:08.000
I I tried not to, I mean I the I mentioned a little bit with with Julie Downing, but I didn't want to go into it too much.

00:54:08.000 --> 00:54:14.000
Because it can become really upsetting for for people when you start to talk about

00:54:14.000 --> 00:54:29.000
The the treatment of first nations people since Settlers are arrived, and the ongoing denial of What's happened, and yes, we had sorry day when the then Prime Minister Kevin read apologized to Aboriginal

00:54:29.000 --> 00:54:35.000
toy straight islanders for what happened but reconciliation still hasn't happened.

00:54:35.000 --> 00:54:46.000
And so a lot of the urban artists are social protest artists, and they're telling the the store their stories.

00:54:46.000 --> 00:55:02.000
And what is good for them and bad for white Australia is that white Australia kept phenomenal records of all the children it stole from it's their families, and they've been able to go back and you know see

00:55:02.000 --> 00:55:09.000
letters from the so-called protector of aborigines that were saying, Oh, we know No, no we can't possibly let you see your child.

00:55:09.000 --> 00:55:19.000
It's no good for your child. to see you and things like that. and and they use this in their art to tell their stories. and it's very confronting.

00:55:19.000 --> 00:55:27.000
Okay, questions from Hanelle and I hope i'm pronouncing this correct?

00:55:27.000 --> 00:55:31.000
Would you be able to say anything about the 1 one genus W. A.

00:55:31.000 --> 00:55:37.000
N d g I n a s fleet it's not a oh, one.

00:55:37.000 --> 00:55:41.000
Genes want to know it's my pronunciation.

00:55:41.000 --> 00:55:48.000
Little bit because we had. We had some on bark in the art gallery in in Perth.

00:55:48.000 --> 00:55:57.000
The one's gonna the tie can from what I can remember, is is one of the ancestral spirit beings that's responsible for water sources.

00:55:57.000 --> 00:56:09.000
So it would it would they're often painted on rocks near water supplies, and they in the in the areas where the one Jenner lives.

00:56:09.000 --> 00:56:13.000
They will often go back and paint the one ginner every year.

00:56:13.000 --> 00:56:15.000
It's almost like part of the ceremony to have respect.

00:56:15.000 --> 00:56:20.000
So you know you kind of go back there, you They would sing the story.

00:56:20.000 --> 00:56:24.000
They would repaint the one Gina to make sure that the one Gina knew that they were.

00:56:24.000 --> 00:56:40.000
Still, you know, they were still paying homage for one of the better word for it, and a few years ago there was a young young graffiti artist in Perth who was going around painting the image of the one Jinner, because it's

00:56:40.000 --> 00:56:52.000
quite a striking image. i'm i'm gonna so very quickly, while I'm talking, see if I can just to show you because you might sort of recognize this is an important polling image of a one dinner.

00:56:52.000 --> 00:57:05.000
But it's that kind of no it doesn't show up Is that kind of thing really really bad, and my apologies to all aboriginal and toystate islanders for that atrocious image But the

00:57:05.000 --> 00:57:10.000
elders of the community, where the one, you know, actually lives.

00:57:10.000 --> 00:57:18.000
Track down this young guy, and explain to him that it was really bad to paint the ones, you know where the one Gina doesn't live.

00:57:18.000 --> 00:57:25.000
It's disrespectful to culture. They still have a few issues with it, because it is a very striking image for graffiti artists.

00:57:25.000 --> 00:57:29.000
But but yeah, that's a little bit about the one Jenna. Okay, lovely.

00:57:29.000 --> 00:57:40.000
Thank you and a quick question from sue she loves the concept of everyone she's asking, is it a bit like universal consciousness, young and Zen.

00:57:40.000 --> 00:57:50.000
Oh, well, I i'm not an expert on young and universal consciousness, but possibly it it it might be so.

00:57:50.000 --> 00:57:54.000
Although well, I don't know because I really don't understand universal consciousness.

00:57:54.000 --> 00:58:01.000
So I don't know whether that's? this universal consciousness Is that like collective thinking?

00:58:01.000 --> 00:58:04.000
I I don't really know it it could be i'm not really sure.

00:58:04.000 --> 00:58:10.000
Sorry I can't I can try and look at that.

00:58:10.000 --> 00:58:16.000
And you know, maybe if this extra questions I can see if I can find the answer to that and add that into it.

00:58:16.000 --> 00:58:25.000
Okay, no, I think we've got a couple more questions and then I think we'll have to wrap things up and question from Sheila.

00:58:25.000 --> 00:58:37.000
Stop talking about the aboriginal group sense of scale huge Sky continent women's collective painting seems as looking from space or a drone. Yes,

00:58:37.000 --> 00:58:55.000
A lot of desert art sheila does have that aerial perspective, and how they do that we don't know it's they have a different way of seeing I can remember once being in the art gallery in

00:58:55.000 --> 00:59:02.000
Perth and walking through the gallery space, and there was some drone photographs of the the country.

00:59:02.000 --> 00:59:08.000
And as you move through that space, and then you moved into some of the aerial aboriginal desert images.

00:59:08.000 --> 00:59:18.000
You kind of felt how how have they done that how have they cause they don't have a drone how they've done that, and it's it.

00:59:18.000 --> 00:59:26.000
They hold it in their head. they see things differently. But yes, it absolutely does have that sort of area for photography and look about it.

00:59:26.000 --> 00:59:32.000
Okay, lovely. Okay, We've got one more question I think and then we will wrap things up.

00:59:32.000 --> 00:59:36.000
Folks. No, I've just lost it We is it there we are

00:59:36.000 --> 00:59:43.000
This is from Steve are the first nation artists, viewed in the same way as our artists, ie.

00:59:43.000 --> 00:59:56.000
People who are special creative imaginative. Yes, in a word, there's because of the problems that still exist within Australia generally.

00:59:56.000 --> 01:00:06.000
In relation to reconciliation between first nations people and white Australians on non apparition Australians.

01:00:06.000 --> 01:00:22.000
You do seem to be if you wanna aboriginal artist, or if you are an aboriginal footballer, Australian roles. Footballer, you are. You are kind of held in in respect having said that, there was

01:00:22.000 --> 01:00:26.000
an I can't remember exactly how many years ago now within 10 years ago.

01:00:26.000 --> 01:00:40.000
I think, Commentator in Australia, Guy by the name of Andrew Bolt, who's a a right-wing commentator, and he accused a number of aboriginal people, one of whom was done in mella of not

01:00:40.000 --> 01:00:51.000
being black enough to be aboriginal and he he wrote a piece saying that he didn't deserve to win the aboriginal toy straight Island at R toward and that he was taking that away from proper

01:00:51.000 --> 01:00:55.000
aboriginal people in the desert who really needed that sort of mechanism.

01:00:55.000 --> 01:01:07.000
There was a number of people that he accused that sort of thing of, and it he was taken to court, and he was found to have contraband the racial discrimination act.

01:01:07.000 --> 01:01:14.000
So yes, you are revered in a way but only to a point.

01:01:14.000 --> 01:01:21.000
Don't want across the line of being a good aborigine that's that's when the the trust is broken.

01:01:21.000 --> 01:01:25.000
Right i've got a squeeze in one final question and then we're definitely done.

01:01:25.000 --> 01:01:37.000
This is from sue and I don't know if this is question. you can answer, but let's let's let's have a goal, and does the desert arts have similarities with the Nasa lines, and peru that also kind of appear from an

01:01:37.000 --> 01:01:54.000
aerial perspective now, so that's a really interesting question and I don't know about the Nasa lines in Peru, but there is a similarity between Australian desert art and the ancient Egyptian art there's one

01:01:54.000 --> 01:02:06.000
particular artist. His name escapes me, but I will put the i'll put it in something for Fiona say that she can get it to a female artist and she paints the night sky.

01:02:06.000 --> 01:02:22.000
And she does these amazing stars. And when I went to Egypt more years ago than I care to remember and we were in the Valley of the Kings, and we were in one of the tombs, and I looked up and the

01:02:22.000 --> 01:02:31.000
the sign, the symbols painted on the ceiling of this tomb in ancient Egypt were the same as this aboriginal woman's symbols.

01:02:31.000 --> 01:02:37.000
So there has to be something that links desert people when they look at the night sky, and they tell their stories.

01:02:37.000 --> 01:02:43.000
Whether they're in Peru the center of Australia or in ancient Egypt.

01:02:43.000 --> 01:02:51.000
There was something that linked them. Yeah. Well, that was fabulous, Tadsa.

01:02:51.000 --> 01:02:56.000
I think everybody enjoyed that. I hope and as I said Amanda.

01:02:56.000 --> 01:03:02.000
We'll make the links that Telisa talked about available beside the recording on the members area of the website.

01:03:02.000 --> 01:03:09.000
In due course next week, and once we've got them so thank you to these that was fantastic.

01:03:09.000 --> 01:03:16.000
You're welcome, thank you everyone for listening

01:03:16.000 --> 01:03:21.000
And everybody. If you could fill that in for me.

01:03:21.000 --> 01:03:28.000
That would be fantastic. and while you are all doing that i'll tell you about what's happening next week.

01:03:28.000 --> 01:03:32.000
So we've got something very very different for you a bit social history again.

01:03:32.000 --> 01:03:47.000
But this time the history of football and completely different with the modern game, beginning in the public schools in the mid nineteenth century, will be exploring the reasons why the working class came to dominate the game, and to make it the

01:03:47.000 --> 01:03:52.000
people's game, so that should be really quite interesting thing and a little bit different for us as well.

01:03:52.000 --> 01:04:06.000
And just finally I haven't mentioned this for a little while, and it was just to ask you to have a little bit of a think about our members fund, and if you're enjoying the lectures why not consider

01:04:06.000 --> 01:04:14.000
helping the the Wba to support those who need it with free Wba membership, so that they can access the lectures to

01:04:14.000 --> 01:04:29.000
Our members fund. I shall pop the link for this into the chat. So you've got it that you'll also find it, and all of the lecture communications and member newsletters that we send to you so let me

01:04:29.000 --> 01:04:38.000
just pop that in for you so that you've got it So please do consider that if you can everything will be greatly appreciated.

01:04:38.000 --> 01:04:54.000
And I think that is us for this evening. I hope you all enjoyed that.

00:00:27.000 --> 00:00:32.000
May is local history month it's been organized for a long time.

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Maybe the historical association with the aim of awareness of local history for modern history in general, and encouraging the local community to participate.

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And really my own experience of researching and talking about and sharing aspects of classicals, hosting history, and especially elements of tenants.

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Experience and various hosting movements has been from a non academic point of view.

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It's been feigning material and different libraries and archives through chance conversations with people following threads naming up places.

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A number thought i'd be so I think that really is in the spread of local history month. and although quite classical centric, as I usually am.

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Hopefully, this can inspire people to dig in to history of hosting on their own area, and even in the own lives.

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So go i'm up at class school here so the first thing.

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Why, why are you guys going? My, How you think so classical is a set effect in my whole life?

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And it's Yeah, the question of how sing is dominated Mo.

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And life personally in terms of how many teams have moved, and how it structured my work in different relationships.

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And the question of how you sing is really dominated. The life of Glasgow itself as well.

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For the past 200 years up to the present day, and these constant cycles of urban development, a Master Malesian class conflict.

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Shifting ideology is political priorities and legislative changing changes are in hasten.

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So classical traditionally has been represented or associated with this industrial past.

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Primarily, but the other side of that is a deep connection to this architecture, and it's hosting some of the most famous representations.

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A classical have been by photographers documenting the living conditions of a citizens 200 so famously.

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Thomas Anna, and one of the very early airless photographers in the nineteenth century. that's his most famous work in the old closest or street Supply school for the Improvement Trust in 1,800 and 66

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with the brief to record much of all classical before it was demolished.

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In the first rounds a song clearance in the 1,800 sixtys, and 1,800 and Seventys Oscar Mars Rouley.

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It's also taken some of the most iconic images of classical documenting the post-warly development of the city, and we'll famously in the goggles and the old

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Some tenements. So is that ever clint in the class of the new more than a set that came.

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I was basically built on top of the room of those 10 communities.

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Nick Cages to another series of famous photographs in his work as a photographer for shelter.

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Scotland, documenting the some conditions in class in the 1,800 and Seventys, and they were originally supposed to be published by the Sunday Times.

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They were deemed yet too disturbing to Pen, and only more recently came out from and Raymond Airport.

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Don was a French photographer who came to Glasgow in 1980, and they actually came straight from Beirut.

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And he said, looking back, It was also a civil ward going on in Glasgow.

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Unlike in Beta. there were no other photographers.

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I'd spent the last day keep comforting several wars and rebellions.

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On my arrival I was surprised by the people, the architecture, and, above all, the light.

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Everything seemed very exhaustive. I worked in glad school like it did on the streets of without prejudice, and despite being shocked by the destitution I love 50 min, no matter where I went the people were

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welcoming. I never seemed sad with a lot

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I wrote Patents famous painting, and the windows in the West represented another representation of the other, say the classical Hastings and his tenement, suspicious in the West End, the say more prosperous part in the city,

00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:50.000
and just in my one lifetime. So I was born in 1988.

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Start of another site. kill of a demolition and change, beginning with the set is nomination, is European, say, of culture.

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In 1,990 attempts to get rid of its industrial past, and up to the present Chris Leslie's documentary photography of the latest strain.

00:05:07.000 --> 00:05:11.000
The demolition which was getting rid of the post-war development.

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So these costs and cycles of hosting change, demolition, me development kind of dominate the host there.

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The length of Oh, that's cool and today the set is only one another process to change with for me the most terrifying architectural renderings of this quite bizarre future city, which is apparently taken shape at the

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moment. So why does this my Well, this history is really determining.

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The present day politics and shape and planning of high school.

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Just recently Glasgow say Cancel Alright was urged to declare a rain crisis due to spiling events and host prices in the city.

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Just a direct result of political decisions made in the past, and the way that that history of tenure change, hosting change has been represented.

00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:16.000
So for today it's like from really taken a view of history from Hello, So so back, subject.

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But i'm just gonna summarize it with a quotation from that story, and V with Hatchcock.

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Say that I believe that history from below history which preserves in which 4 grounds the marginalized stories and experiences of people who, all else being equal, did not get a chance to alter their own story history from below tries

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to address the most final and brutal of life and equality.

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Whether or not you are forgotten, so that is really the story of Glasgow's tenants to the people that fall for their conductions survive the horrific conditions they find themselves and voices have largely been forgotten by

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history. The main story, a glaze was: History has been told from above by the politicians, the planners, the architects, the made decisions affect, and the lives of hundreds of thousands millions of people.

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Without hearing their voices. So I'm gonna show a little timeline here, I of Glasgow set it Councils a timeline or the housing team.

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So this was like an official document and produced by the Cancel to give their version of this story.

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So i'm just gonna go through it quickly conceivably is dominated by dates, bye legislative change, by politicians, officials, planning reports

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Changes and stales are hosting, hosting ownership, going through hosting stock, transfer privatization, right to buy more planning reports dates up to most recently the creation at Glasgow hosting association the

00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:08.000
privatization of the set is entire heightened stock.

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So when I first came across this, I mean what is messing almost entirely from that is, is any people I mean 1 one picture of one politician is not a single tenant or tennis movement peers and that entire history of 200

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years of everything change to show another one here, which is from a shelter.

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Scottland, the housing charity. Yeah. So let me just share this here.

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So this is shelters Take on the development of Scotland's hosting emergency over time.

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So the group over creating a slum conductions at the start of the twentieth century Development of early some Clements and counsel high in between the war, the building of peripheral schemes and tower blocks

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hybridized living in the fifties and sixtys, continuing homelessness, overcrowding Cathy come home so again, a few more people appeared in this almost always as a victims of this history.

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So from this point, if you, the tenants do appear but largely as kind of helpless a victims of circumstances.

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And again the organisation of tanks. The weight Tain is fought to improve their conductions is largely absent.

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Again, and history. so in our project for the wa we've been trying to tail less history from below to try to find the stories of 10.

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Is some have they organized how they came together to change the conditions that they left in.

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So it's part of the glasgow haste to struggle out.

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Cave started to construct an alternative timeline of this history.

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So from the 1,950 main strikes through to the post for squatting movement, where tens of thousands of homeless families took over on accounts and empty property, I other aspects of 10 organization associations boot test

00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:23.000
right demonstrations and movements so large has been forgotten from history nearly in the process of trying to put us together, can equate short.

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I how difficult it was, in one sense, so you can't go until I even pull it. A book tailin the story it was hosting, or even the story of the gobles, or any of the areas a lot of this material is

00:10:37.000 --> 00:10:43.000
in books i've been longer of print that is in various university archives or public archives.

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I've collected a lot of material from people i've met in a box of buses at funerals and part of call meetings.

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So really so by being active and collecting those voices are not really assuming that somewhere somewhere is doing the work of this history from below, and we've all got a part of play and tell them the story of the community is where we come

00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:16.000
from. So i'm just going to look at a couple of examples, and some of the archival film and case studies that I've been looking at.

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So i'll just share my screen again. so probably the most famous example of 10 in action in the whole of Britain in the twentieth century, was the classical end strikes of 1915 when and the first years of the

00:11:36.000 --> 00:11:49.000
World War. One is a massive info so tens of thousands of workers from the Highlands, from Ireland's From further a field entered the munitions factories of high school and to some tenaments and conditions

00:11:49.000 --> 00:12:07.000
of extreme extreme overcrowding, at which point 90% of the host of stock was in private landmark hands, and the landlords use this opportunity to raise rents so to try to profit basically from the wartime

00:12:07.000 --> 00:12:25.000
situation and take advantage by hiking up the rins. so muscle possession at 2 these red hikes broke out right across high school and working after class districts at the height of the red strike in 1915 30,000

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families across the city. we're refusing the rental increases.

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This was led overwhelmingly by working class women and the 10 communities right across the city.

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In the end that's ringcentral was successful in forcing one of the first State interventions into the free market.

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The occasion of a massive demonstration and industrial strikes.

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In October, 1915 right in the heart of the say Chambers Lloyd George, go on the phone to the sheriff in Glasgow to drop the case against the red strikers and

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Almost the next day the Restrictions Act was passed in waste.

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Minister that controlled rents to pre-war labels.

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And this was not just for scholars, but right across Britain. and they were.

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How does that work controlled well into the twentieth century, based on the victory of the 1915 Lane strikers?

00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:35.000
So so pictured here of some of the women the children do it on Red Strike, and an aspect of this people's history.

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A hosting is that this was a sphere largely controlled and laid and organized by women.

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And contrast to the labor movement, or basically much of social, political life.

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Public life in Scotland in the early twentieth century.

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One of the leaders of the mainstream was a remarkable woman.

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Helen Crawford, who was a leader in the suffrage movement in the anti war movement, and went on to be one of the founders of the Communist party.

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At the time she was one of the leaders of the rainstreakers, and in a huge demonstration and party in the west of the city, in 1,915.

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It was reported that she said that this fight was essentially a women's, fight, all who was taken power in the demonstration were showing their solidarity.

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They were asking not for money, not for charity. they would ask him for justice.

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She respected all laws that were just unfair. She did not ask them to respect the law which allowed increases and names to be enforced.

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The present juncture, and the male change in the 1916 spoke to his culminates that the man had laughed at the idea of rain straight to scorn.

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But women were determined, and they won a glorious victory.

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So significantly The history of this massive movement was largely forgotten for mostly twentieth century.

00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:09.000
So in a memoirs and histories of the period of Red Clyde side of the industrial conflict and the anti-war movement.

00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:17.000
It was hardly a mention of the 1915 ring straight, even though it was arguably the most successful action that took place during the whole period.

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Unless history was really dug up through the work of the Sharefield Film Cooperative.

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A group of female researchers who that come across a reference to this and began the work of doing history from below of archival research, and also auto history to find women who'd been involved. So i'm gonna show a

00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:45.000
clip from the film the red Scots on quite site.

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It comes here. She was a well, but of the process that they went through, and also hears from some of the voices of the rain straight curs.

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40 years after the

00:16:13.000 --> 00:16:18.000
We were soing the Glasgow rent strike, which took place in 1,915.

00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:29.000
During the First World War. we want to talk to any women who remembered the strike and the Glasgow Women's Housing Association who organized it.

00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:42.000
There were also 4 women who wants to know more about their names were Helen Crawford, Agnes Stalin, Mary Barber, and Jean Ferguson.

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We were particularly interested to find out why this important strike remained relatively unknown.

00:17:01.000 --> 00:17:09.000
We make contact with some women in Glasgow. Jessie Finley, a political activist all her life.

00:17:09.000 --> 00:17:21.000
Certainly my Margaret, young Kathy Mailer, and Sadie Fulton, whose parents were politically active during the period.

00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:26.000
Mary and Jesse Barber, the granddaughters of Mary Barbara.

00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:51.000
Never a big city, anyone because they went away well as far as the rental strike was concerned, the woman played a very important part in this, and the party and a govern where their hot beds time now, when there was an eviction

00:17:51.000 --> 00:18:08.000
of anyone does, no matter who they were. Then the woman got busy, and at that time, of course, their bikes back courts of tenements.

00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:25.000
Tenements ended up in a square and of course the Bike Courts were congenial to have an outdoor meeting, because all the needed to do was the speaker that was there got on the top of I don't

00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:41.000
know whether people understand the the language, but the midden or the refuse heap, and they support, and all that hound was the woman in the houses just opened their window, and I know the one don't listen to what was being said

00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:55.000
Now they were organized in different groups, and they there's a lesson here to build out, and there's no do of that. When it came to an eviction.

00:18:55.000 --> 00:19:16.000
The woman named come out with bales. ricketeser don't know what they call them a what a technical tailors are, and they, whenever they started a ring in the bail and a winding these

00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:29.000
Ricketes a the Goddamn. They all had certain areas to gather them, and they gathered, and of course it was then the what I told who was likely to be evicted.

00:19:29.000 --> 00:19:36.000
Was the result. There was always a Crow deer,

00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:44.000
The card index of the Glasgow History Library failed to reveal the names of the 4 women.

00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:48.000
There were no records of the glasgow women's Housing Association.

00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:56.000
Maybe we needed a women's history. library. Okay, thanks so can see?

00:19:56.000 --> 00:20:02.000
Yeah, even through that, probably the most well known event stay in there.

00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:16.000
Well when i'm more significant and last year twentieth century, one class movement, and it just took that small group of women to really and follow up the straight that led to it's kind of known to be so gonna

00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:35.000
skip forward and here and look at another episode from this history. That's really this Pba day after the end of the Second World War.

00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:41.000
So often as Pde is associated with in a images of the burst of the welfare state.

00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:47.000
The birth cancel hosting on a massive scale this idea that the Canal Labour Government was elected.

00:20:47.000 --> 00:20:55.000
And suddenly from above, the hosting crisis was solved, and reality even in 1951

00:20:55.000 --> 00:21:10.000
By the end of the Francisco Government it was still a 100,000 homes needed, built in classical 100,000 people, homeless and and overcame on a scale that was far, far beyond anywhere else in Britain.

00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:20.000
So still in 1951, 50% of the dwellings in classical were either a single room, a single end, or a room in caption.

00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:25.000
So comparative numbers and Manchester or leads are Lever Pool, whatever?

00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:39.000
1%, 2, 3% of the population. Still, at that team, less than half of the dwellings in classical had and endured bath or toilet, so extreme situation continued right through the period of the labor government and well in the

00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:47.000
sixties and seventies Again, A lot of that period is associated with these plans from above.

00:21:47.000 --> 00:22:01.000
So the famous Bruce report of 1,945 was proposed demolishing higher class. Go, say center, so the say, chamber is the classical school of art and rebuilding the say if you can see

00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:05.000
these kind of quite incredible maps here based on Yeah.

00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:15.000
New modernist planning principles of zoning, and this was also in competition with the eventual successful plan for classes.

00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:20.000
Redevelopment by the planner of the Crombe, which aim to move.

00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:28.000
250,000 people. So around 2025% of the population in class school was to be removed.

00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:34.000
Outside of the set is boundaries. Enter a series of new tones such as you score right in Livingston.

00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:40.000
So this was development on a massive scale, and right through this Pd.

00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:45.000
The Glasgow Corporation produced a large series of propaganda films.

00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:49.000
Essentially to bring the citizenry along with their grand visions.

00:22:49.000 --> 00:22:54.000
So you can see here, between nineteenth, 40, and 1,970.

00:22:54.000 --> 00:23:02.000
4 are in the dozen films were produced to sale and the corporations vision of planning to the population.

00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:07.000
So I'm going to show a couple of Clips here so this one's called St.

00:23:07.000 --> 00:23:13.000
Mungo's medal was based in the Gorbals area.

00:23:13.000 --> 00:23:30.000
So by the corporation showing the bright new future that was to come for its citizens, female and

00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:36.000
People, but behind this window have created a home in the heart of a hovel.

00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:40.000
For years they have held out bravely, and now the long siege is nearly over.

00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:48.000
In this one room house. The liberation is celebrated. born in this building, that, glad to be leaving it at last.

00:23:48.000 --> 00:24:07.000
But there is a sadness, too, in parting from old neighbours, for very soon these folk will be a war to bite a war each to his or her own place in the scheme of a new and better Glasgow

00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:15.000
To these 2 the uncertain future is just beginning to unfold like a forgotten dream coming true.

00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:22.000
Over half a century they have lived, loved, laughed, and sorrowed in this Gorbals tenement.

00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:28.000
From this dark, decaying street they have launched their children into the world.

00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:35.000
All the years they have dreamed of having a window that looked out on a tree and a bit of us.

00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:42.000
So again, love, that, like that, that highest and timeline will tie the start.

00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:47.000
Kind of incredible in all these phones is that the tenants that people are silent.

00:24:47.000 --> 00:24:55.000
They never speak. you never hear from any of them. I mean the voice over it is telling us that the the limit said their dream is a patch address.

00:24:55.000 --> 00:25:02.000
I I save the house, But I guess we'll never know so can really see that.

00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:09.000
How do you think history? the change of political decisions it'll presume to be in the hands of the planners and those above a 1 million?

00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:25.000
The wishes of the tenants. What class population that suffered and the some tenements somewhere center software suffered, and the new songs being built in the prefere of the set don't form any part really of the the official history

00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:29.000
of that period. so stepping forward to 1971.

00:25:29.000 --> 00:25:42.000
So this is 10 years later this was a a film just for a very brief, but again about the vision that Gorbals that was taken shape and the film was called classical 1980 was made in 1,971 and It was

00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:48.000
a horrifically long, and its productions medium rice.

00:25:48.000 --> 00:26:00.000
Her opposing at Pollock Shields. The redeployment of land formerly occupied by villas, means that more people can live in the district, and also enjoying means that in 1,980 the population of the city will

00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:11.000
be 800,000 people. they will have good houses and a revitalized environment that will free them from the cramped conditions of the past.

00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:20.000
So battle spencer's high-rise flats and Hutchison, Town Gorbals. the first of the comprehensive development areas before redevelopment.

00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:22.000
Population density was 460 people per acre.

00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:29.000
Now is 150 people per acre, living with light space, a sense of freedom.

00:26:29.000 --> 00:26:35.000
Okay, So why? space and a sense of freedom was what was being sold.

00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:42.000
Still in the 1970 S: So schedule a couple of things in that.

00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:47.000
Yeah, these episodes from that history that really have been very little retina.

00:26:47.000 --> 00:27:01.000
But and yeah, partly through the work we've been doing the archive project, we're trying to share more so in 1,946, and the pediatric government far from the House has been kind of just handed

00:27:01.000 --> 00:27:06.000
down, and it was a huge struggle to force them into host building.

00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:15.000
So famous examples in London of squatters taken over at old army camps, and then starting to take over a private property and hotels.

00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:31.000
The the same thing happened with classical tens of thousands of mainly homeless people from Governor and the Gobles Ex Service men began to take over a abandon arm comes and then they help the Communist part in the independent labour, party

00:27:31.000 --> 00:27:35.000
to take over masters of property over the set is so abandoned.

00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:39.000
Mansions, the headquarters of a classical press club hostages.

00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:50.000
Yeah, 10 bedroom munch in the Kelvin deal, and before running battle with the police to occupy this hosting and the main deliber government.

00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:58.000
Well, being a nationally sympathetic, began to take action against the scores and major legal battles were for,

00:27:58.000 --> 00:28:12.000
For in the courts and on the streets But the score is played an important role and highlighting the fact that homelessness was a huge issue, and the desperation that tenants faced so that some elements in this we're trying

00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:23.000
to tell a story. A very famous play was made by the unity theatre that was seen by over a 100,000 people in the space of about 6 months, called The Audible Story.

00:28:23.000 --> 00:28:36.000
They're told or tried to show the reality of a slum living. And then one of the performances in classical. They invited the Lord promised to view, and they also invited a group of homeless quarters to come to the same

00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:41.000
performance, got them up on stage, and apparently horrified the Lord Provost.

00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:49.000
Another important thing that happened. that period was big demonstration and straight movement.

00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:53.000
To prevent the sale of a series of cancel houses.

00:28:53.000 --> 00:29:00.000
So in 1,951 toy accounts, and as well I know this plans to sail off high amendment to cancel.

00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:17.000
Heing and the south of the city Well, 90,000 almost people are still on waiting lists, and a huge movement belt a rollout to defend these hosts immediately interestingly, was laid by the workers who had built the corporation houses.

00:29:17.000 --> 00:29:29.000
And by working class women. and it was a poem here written by the building workers that we found, an account of the women leading the occupation of the say Chambers.

00:29:29.000 --> 00:29:36.000
At 1 point they brought a dead rat that they found in that host, and through the cancel, and these are all the elements.

00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:43.000
That we're really in huge contrast to to the way women were being portrayed at a time.

00:29:43.000 --> 00:29:52.000
So so let's say these little stories that we're trying to draw from the history show that actually tenants weren't passive at any point.

00:29:52.000 --> 00:30:07.000
What we're constantly fighting to improve the conditions they left in So another little clip i'm gonna show was just what happened to these promises of the bright new gordbles that had been promised and in a

00:30:07.000 --> 00:30:18.000
classical set, a council class of corporation films. So these are tenants that live in a very famous redevelopment called Hutches and Town.

00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:30.000
It was opened by the Queen in 1,971 to great fanfare, and by 1,981 due to the terrible dampness and the corruption involved in the building contracts would almost

00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:41.000
abandon. This is one of the other segments of but 11. There's one of the media factors That's a doubt.

00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:47.000
This was the old people having so many hard fast that must have gone down really.

00:30:47.000 --> 00:30:50.000
Well, I wasn't your phone as a fault be it too much.

00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:58.000
There's a fight. no you you give off the conversation so after these first couple of years were over, and the dampness still hadn't gone away.

00:30:58.000 --> 00:31:01.000
Did you start to spot other things going wrong with the with the buildings, I mean?

00:31:01.000 --> 00:31:04.000
Did people sign up and see are the signs of the dampness?

00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:09.000
Oh, I was split! It started spreading through wallpaper, complete through all people.

00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:15.000
Space fog on the following tier room: campus down the species.

00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:18.000
Clothing is that's that's those little white mug I.

00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:22.000
Some things are so people have to throw the furniture don't lose suits. don't blue suits in light.

00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:32.000
It's a whitish way. you know and the wardrobes when you're young, it may know you're furniture. If it was to keep me enough say every state of amazement you but it took them

00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:35.000
years out there was condensation, or saw this, maybe on windows or keep it heat.

00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:41.000
Arizona P. I went to i'll like done.

00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:55.000
Okay. So the between 1,976 and 1,981. The tennis in these files led our end straight against those of corporation and really play the vital role to one that can the link between bird housing

00:31:55.000 --> 00:32:13.000
and pure health, which was constantly denied, as the guys said there, and the led to campaign against what they called the dumbness monsters, organizing pedestrians, organizing plays as well as the rain strikes and in the

00:32:13.000 --> 00:32:16.000
end they successfully one compensation and need hosting.

00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:28.000
So through the campaign. And this was a yeah, Some of the from a cartoon produce some of the things the corporation blame the tenants for the dump conduction, and how to avoid it.

00:32:28.000 --> 00:32:37.000
So no heavy breathing, sweating more than 2 persons, no way dreams by order, no hot bats, farting, drying foods, no parties.

00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:41.000
Dogs wet that do not lean over about Kate.

00:32:41.000 --> 00:32:57.000
You wear a wet floor? no hot food or drink. So the tennis had to overcome this kind of gas lighting by the people who had built this tannable hyen and demonstrate the link and then fight for

00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:01.000
yeah in the end, for these fights to be demolished after only 10 years.

00:33:01.000 --> 00:33:11.000
And here's some of the images as you can see of the women who are largely leading the fight again, and right into the 1980 S.

00:33:11.000 --> 00:33:22.000
And 19 ninetys tenants, and the new peripheral hosting schemes continued to demonstrate against a poor conditions of the host, and they were an so one of the most famous was Catherine Mccormick

00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:29.000
working class highway from eastern highest one to the Buddhist, and the jargon most deprived.

00:33:29.000 --> 00:33:36.000
It is of the Seti quite notorious, and and Glasgow in Scotland and beyond Hmm.

00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:52.000
Became politically active through bring in healthy babies back from the hospital, and within a few weeks of them Ian and the damp hosting I'm terrible costs, sickness, and illness, and the way they're really innovative

00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:59.000
campaign to design new houses with solar energy, proper insulation.

00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:12.000
They worked with a scientist and technicians from across Europe, from the class of school of art, to not only demonstrate, but to show an old alternative vision of what they believed public hosting.

00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:18.000
And these are some of the designs. yeah. We find an archives and donated by an artist.

00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:32.000
We are working with showed the proposals put forward than an east hole one section of the scheme that they successfully built, and they also used humor.

00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:48.000
Our culture was a key part as well. So this is a little clock of the damp busters film that the 10 is used to tourate across working class areas of classical to expose the yeah hosting conductions

00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:57.000
i'm sure the reality of dampness so just for a of cafe as a mushroom.

00:34:57.000 --> 00:35:16.000
You my husband this

00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:25.000
He's got these system and the door that is so lazy

00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:36.000
Huge blood moves Okay, So right, just a really port to test there.

00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:41.000
But I guess keep point for me. Is that to find them?

00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:46.000
To tell this alternative story, to feign that film footage, to feign those design plans to fame.

00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:53.000
The story of their Gorbals. rent strike or the Glasgow squatters. it's really been very few sources, you know.

00:35:53.000 --> 00:36:06.000
It's not in any books that are currently in print a phone stuff in old Phds and artists who have been an archives at classical women's library just through personal conversations with people.

00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:22.000
I've made goodness through this that we started to build this extra and find a way to make the material that is there that Scott or the bite to send centralize it and to user and to create a narrative that people can add to

00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:30.000
the people can contest, because the reality is that within Glasgow spell invitment there is no trace of any of these struggles.

00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:44.000
All in the city, save what people thought for themselves so there's one recent monument to Medi Barbara, and the classical land strikeers in 1,915 campaign for for 10 years there's very little in the

00:36:44.000 --> 00:36:57.000
urban landscape that would hint any of this history, if you don't know, and if you don't look so by accounting less by starting to put together by sharing it by doing more contours meetings,

00:36:57.000 --> 00:37:02.000
we're collecting more and more stories and materials and then Kevin.

00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:07.000
I don't timeline in contrast to that from above, and just lastly, to see that the the W.

00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:16.000
Ea has played an important role, and capturing and sharing this history.

00:37:16.000 --> 00:37:30.000
So yeah, it's various. clips. So for example Kasimol is one in the post, 4 peripheral themes and in 1,990 The Workers Educational Association was with a series of tenants there to Produce

00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:36.000
a pamphlet cold and the big flat as part of the customer People's history group.

00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:51.000
So this is a pound for that told the history of the area that has not been told anybody else that through a weekly oral history groups through, take 10 min through the archives to the Metro library.

00:37:51.000 --> 00:38:03.000
They create this history and record it, and one of the finders irresist Mcdonald of the scheme, she said, One thing i'm must say at this stage is that it's a great petty when someone asks for

00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:10.000
a rundown, and what the Customer Tenants Association was that we do not stop to make a written history.

00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:21.000
We can only rely on memory and the W. has played their really important role. and and it's history of May that written record and recording it.

00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:34.000
So our current project, the classical high school struggle, archive aims to be a repository of these various retin and oral histories of place, to share it, to create timelines, to take out, and to public, so these

00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:48.000
are some images of an installation with that tailing a 100 years of 10 of movements in classical as part of an exhibition, a device called Women's Library.

00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:55.000
So. And yeah, trying to think of interesting ways, visual ways making new connections between the materials.

00:38:55.000 --> 00:39:01.000
And yeah, maybe not usual boring archive. so.

00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:22.000
And that is, continuing today. So most recently a new archive project has been started between the Workers Educational Association in Scotland and Glasgow, Caledonian University to to yeah find additional material to contribute to

00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:26.000
the archive to examine the legacy of the W.

00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:36.000
Ea, and for people to make written submissions It may be attended an event who'd gone to workshops, who had parents or grandparents who grew up, and the W Ea.

00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:45.000
So that is something that we can all contribute to, and all our stories have something to tell.

00:39:45.000 --> 00:40:02.000
So let me just find this here good second so just to finish is really just the next exercise that we've been doing with different W.

00:40:02.000 --> 00:40:09.000
E. a workshops, and in different settings as to just start to record as well.

00:40:09.000 --> 00:40:21.000
Our own personal timelines of housing change. So to think about representing the way these things have a affected us in our own lives.

00:40:21.000 --> 00:40:31.000
So mainly I came up with idea of maine was extremely boarding, so I just sat there and I took note of every host moves that I've done since I was a kid.

00:40:31.000 --> 00:40:34.000
So I think the first one there was in 1,990, Thank you.

00:40:34.000 --> 00:40:48.000
But the different tapes of hosting I lived in who on the host way, that I have to move and to plot that personal history onto the wider social employee who changes that happened people are really creative.

00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:54.000
We did workshops using collage so this was actually my mom's one.

00:40:54.000 --> 00:41:05.000
This was one of our tutors mapped her various elections against changes to her work and our personal life.

00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:20.000
So it's just constantly thinking of ways that we can Yeah, examine history from below to connect these different timelines. and just to enrich the story of the set is in the community as we come from and to challenge maybe with someone that

00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:25.000
perceive not a tips that are used to justify political decisions today.

00:41:25.000 --> 00:41:38.000
So when hi, you soon as privatized, or when yeah, and if new developments are taking place in the gobles and elsewhere, with no acknowledgement of the rich.

00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:44.000
Cultural political traditions that people have created over the past 200 years.

00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:53.000
It makes it more difficult to challenge maybe some of the same mistakes we've seen through it last was history keep repeating, and it as part of 11 rain.

00:41:53.000 --> 00:42:05.000
Our tennis union. we're. currently engaged in space against extreme, a down pacing against mold against wrongful election against red hikes against one more violence.

00:42:05.000 --> 00:42:11.000
So all of these things of a pure time and time again in Glasgow's history.

00:42:11.000 --> 00:42:19.000
They're never gonna be solved unless people organize and their own interests to fight for the decent safe and affordable highest.

00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:24.000
And this should be a basic requisite and the 20 first century.

00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:33.000
So I think i've got a bit 2 min left i'm just gonna finish with a very quick reflection, and then I will shut up.

00:42:33.000 --> 00:42:46.000
Let me see here. Okay,

00:42:46.000 --> 00:43:02.000
Okay, So i'm just gonna finish with a quote from Christine Peyton, who's an academic between biochemical level of work on the gentrification of part in the waste of the city, and she said as

00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:09.000
we cast our eyes, and what remains at the crisis of twentieth century, industrial capitalism, and the 1 s city of the empire.

00:43:09.000 --> 00:43:15.000
The whole interior is exposed to what old the steel carcasses of high rises.

00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:18.000
Mangled arteries of wires and pipes.

00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:24.000
We must ask, Does it all melt and dissolve you on these physical remnants?

00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:32.000
The tumult of Glasgow's industrial transformation casts a long shadow as we document what disappears and dissolves.

00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:41.000
So we must equally document what endures, what haunts, what imprints, and what is born.

00:43:41.000 --> 00:43:48.000
So history from below must be uncomfortable if history allows you to be complacent.

00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:53.000
It's not doing its job so I hope i've not made anyone feel too uncomfortable today.

00:43:53.000 --> 00:43:56.000
If you feel. are we about uncomfortable in that spring?

00:43:56.000 --> 00:44:03.000
So. thanks very much for dealing with me, and hope to be able to answer any questions that you have.

00:44:03.000 --> 00:44:07.000
Thanks very much. Thanks very much, Julia. That was that was really interesting.

00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:14.000
And as someone who's the heritage is in Glasgow, I certainly personally find that really interesting.

00:44:14.000 --> 00:44:19.000
Now we've got some questions let me scroll up here.

00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:33.000
I'm just gonna start from the top here and we've got a question from Guy and you were talking about tenant participation, obviously. and he's saying in regard to that what about 20 Gibson and planning for real

00:44:33.000 --> 00:44:36.000
and dominant is Glasgow, 1,977.

00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:46.000
This seemed a really involving project and Actor Doesn't incentive to community development projects, or in Britain

00:44:46.000 --> 00:44:50.000
So to that I would say, I do not know much about that.

00:44:50.000 --> 00:45:01.000
But this is precisely why we we want this classical, highest and struggle archive, basically to be a kind of repository or a framework where people can take these stories.

00:45:01.000 --> 00:45:09.000
So sorry. who asked that question? It was Guy. Guy. Yeah. So it would be really interesting to hear your thoughts on that.

00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:24.000
If you have documents or materials from the time or go and interview some of the people involved, and that can yeah be added to this a timeline, because I think there's so many things like that that are just not known about

00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:29.000
they're not shared this very difficult to find out about them unless you were involved.

00:45:29.000 --> 00:45:46.000
So I will. They play with that up. And if you want to get in touch doing a little piece or window, Yeah, guy, if you want to get in touch with us, the email address is membership that w va dot org dot Uk: So we

00:45:46.000 --> 00:45:50.000
can certainly pass on any information that you have. Okay, thanks for that.

00:45:50.000 --> 00:46:02.000
No, what we got next. yeah. this is a a question from June, and I don't know whether it's a question we can really answer.

00:46:02.000 --> 00:46:07.000
But she's asking How is it that local records don't seem to exist.

00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:17.000
It reminds me of the history of children's homes in England which i'm i'm assuming there's a very kind of similar kind of situation.

00:46:17.000 --> 00:46:26.000
Yeah, and I guess yeah, I guess my experience is i've done all this research and writing and projects not not in academia.

00:46:26.000 --> 00:46:41.000
So yeah, i've been quite interested in just thinking about how if you if you're not within the academy, or in a university or an institution, How and your interest and that stuff, How you do? find?

00:46:41.000 --> 00:46:54.000
That a better. And again it's just I love this material is they are but having the time having the knowledge having the ability to access it, And a lot of maybe the more yeah recent movements, a lot of that stuff in the

00:46:54.000 --> 00:47:04.000
twentieth century postwar and material the only place I've read about a lot of it is in one unpublished.

00:47:04.000 --> 00:47:11.000
A PHD. I find better skate Charles Johnston an incredible piece of work that I just found in the class university website.

00:47:11.000 --> 00:47:18.000
You know it's The only place i've read about the classical sporting movement is one of the only places upgraded are then mainstream.

00:47:18.000 --> 00:47:25.000
But, for example, recently the but campaign and Medaly in 1,950.

00:47:25.000 --> 00:47:30.000
1. One of the leaders was a Belden Marker Communist called Ned Donaldson.

00:47:30.000 --> 00:47:37.000
And Yeah. last year at his daughter is now Annie Donaldson, who's all like true Stratly.

00:47:37.000 --> 00:47:48.000
Do you need Yeah. can I go and talk and she's. Now, working to yeah, we publish a history of our movement. our diet rule. she's digging out a lot of their archives and records.

00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:53.000
You just had personally working with different historians to put this material together.

00:47:53.000 --> 00:48:02.000
So again. it's like kind of mix between like personal links A lot of this material is there, or you'd be heading, and I think just a lot of people.

00:48:02.000 --> 00:48:08.000
I mean. probably everyone has something, you know, some document some story some full graph.

00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:18.000
They couldn't form part of these records so yeah things just about using all avenues, and and I think the main thing is just.

00:48:18.000 --> 00:48:29.000
I always assume that there's somebody somewhere in some research department that is doing this work, and more. i've done it. I find it there, isn't you know.

00:48:29.000 --> 00:48:33.000
So it's just you don't just enough say just take the initiative. See?

00:48:33.000 --> 00:48:39.000
See what you can think. Okay, right. we've got a question from Bridget. Thomas.

00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:48.000
She Thinks, what is the situation today? no i'm assuming that she's talking about situation of housing and presumably Glasgow, and way to Scotland I don't know whether that's a question that

00:48:48.000 --> 00:48:53.000
you're able to answer because obviously you've been looking at looking back.

00:48:53.000 --> 00:49:02.000
But I don't know if there's anything that you could tell us about in terms of how things I know huge huge changes.

00:49:02.000 --> 00:49:15.000
I think maybe the the interesting thing about the last maybe 2030 years is that it's not produced anywhere in terms of like,

00:49:15.000 --> 00:49:21.000
No demolition of thousands of the high rise buildings, transformation, or a razor.

00:49:21.000 --> 00:49:26.000
The full cumulative is like, can site hell in the North to say that just being completely demolished.

00:49:26.000 --> 00:49:31.000
And again, there being the the start time, you know, after the war.

00:49:31.000 --> 00:49:34.000
Can I? Goables and these other tenement cuminates can do this masses.

00:49:34.000 --> 00:49:46.000
You know the songs photographs memoirs or voila, fair novels, you know it's still imprinted, and that and the psyche of the set to even for people that were born well, after it so that

00:49:46.000 --> 00:49:50.000
also. Mars are really a exhibition at Street Level Gallery last year.

00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:56.000
I mean it was mocked you know because these images from the fifties after war.

00:49:56.000 --> 00:50:07.000
That's what people associate with class school whereas what replaced it. doesn't seem to have that connection. So at 1 point in class school was said to have a higher percentage of public host.

00:50:07.000 --> 00:50:10.000
And then the Soviet Union, I think upwards is 60.

00:50:10.000 --> 00:50:15.000
70% of of closest population was host and cancellation.

00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:19.000
And no, there is no domain and cancellation at all.

00:50:19.000 --> 00:50:23.000
So the entire stop transferred to Glasgow. Hasten Association.

00:50:23.000 --> 00:50:30.000
2,003 Houston stock, decimated by late to buy huge programmer demolition.

00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:41.000
So, for example, in site hell, it was I think 2 and a half days in units of cancer host, and we have been replaced bye 200 units of Max hosting a Private Houston.

00:50:41.000 --> 00:50:50.000
So it's been huge changes also replacement of public housing where private hosting, private ending home ownership.

00:50:50.000 --> 00:51:04.000
And it's kind of yeah a major rain crisis has been created through us. To also say cancel it's part of flag man's campaign is declared especially that is our end crisis. and the the hosting is

00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:11.000
unaffordable. And yet what is mainly being built we've got luxury hotels and massive built event apartment.

00:51:11.000 --> 00:51:19.000
So. yeah, in a way, it doesn't seem a lot of the license have been learned in a way, unless people challenge them.

00:51:19.000 --> 00:51:38.000
Then I think there's always a conflict between hosting as a source of income tax speculation and hosting is a as a place to live, to work, to make yourself to reproduce yourself and in that conflict is on one

00:51:38.000 --> 00:51:43.000
and the and right across Britain, I mean yeah Yeah, I was just gonna say it seems to be an editor here.

00:51:43.000 --> 00:51:58.000
I don't know if glass goes the same but every single gap site that there is within the city student accommodations going in, and I think that the interesting thing is a thing across all classes, and all people in class school there's a real

00:51:58.000 --> 00:52:04.000
attachment to traditional Victorian architecture. you know, of the tenements of the sandstone.

00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:19.000
And Yeah, even from an architectural point of view I I can't think of 1 one building, and the way was having to know is is ant planning, you know, in the post-war.

00:52:19.000 --> 00:52:25.000
They we, these huge Vegans, despite all the you know what happened in the end.

00:52:25.000 --> 00:52:30.000
You know the planners at a point we're dealing with unprecedented crisis.

00:52:30.000 --> 00:52:37.000
I think it's hard to really imagine what the situation in classical, was in the Second World War.

00:52:37.000 --> 00:52:43.000
Compared to, and I think they had some attempt to, you know.

00:52:43.000 --> 00:52:48.000
For the first time. Try and get people a decent time to 11 public high cent for decent rent.

00:52:48.000 --> 00:52:56.000
What is? No, we just got demolition and private host building gap seats just almost the opposite of a vision.

00:52:56.000 --> 00:53:00.000
It just seems to be happening, and no one's quite sure why, or what?

00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:10.000
And and all this formally public highest I know public land. it's just a huge fire sale of it to to private developers.

00:53:10.000 --> 00:53:16.000
So up in Kalina Street and many how it's a campaign living rain.

00:53:16.000 --> 00:53:23.000
Another members accumulate are involved in a big gap, say, with beautiful views over to camps is kind of an amazing area.

00:53:23.000 --> 00:53:27.000
To say, but it was a cancel icing scheme.

00:53:27.000 --> 00:53:36.000
It was demolished, and the counselor is no sailing off the land, but stipulated that must be sold to a private developer.

00:53:36.000 --> 00:53:44.000
So you know, proposals for social high sang for self-built housing, for you know 2 min 8 like No.

00:53:44.000 --> 00:53:53.000
So people have occupied the land and they're putting forward you know their own proposals for the site, and trying to prevent insult off.

00:53:53.000 --> 00:54:04.000
So again, say things like that. it's quick useful to dig into the history, and to find you know times and you know in your own area what other people use, and managed to do similar things.

00:54:04.000 --> 00:54:11.000
Give you some ideas, some inspiration, or make you of tooling, depending on.

00:54:11.000 --> 00:54:16.000
And just a quick question here from Peter, and just kind of almost a point of clarification more than anything else.

00:54:16.000 --> 00:54:26.000
And when you're talking about privatizing housing today, are you meaning housing associations, or are you meaning private landlordism?

00:54:26.000 --> 00:54:31.000
, Yeah. So I think all you know, all of this has been happening since 80.

00:54:31.000 --> 00:54:41.000
So I mean, like, right across the the rest cross Britain, the lake to bay obviously decimated much of the best cancellation stock.

00:54:41.000 --> 00:55:00.000
And then, yeah, the transfer of you know publicly on I think, and to the hands that classical hosting association and the Weekly group just the highesting association, but also essentially a business and a team that was called the

00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:15.000
largest privatization in Europe. So yeah the role of how you' associations and and kind of ben marketing, and all these, and a breakup of the tenure, you know, the thing is safely debate about you know whether some of that

00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:25.000
was necessary in some really positive examples about, but in some sense has all been element a type of privatization stuff.

00:55:25.000 --> 00:55:35.000
Housing that belong to public belong to state past one is no in some form or another, a private T: So yeah, I think all all of these things would happen.

00:55:35.000 --> 00:55:44.000
And obviously a very different processes. But you know the fact that you know all the people that were public, highest, and be highest in another tenure.

00:55:44.000 --> 00:55:48.000
You know. No, everyone that High school was able to afford that.

00:55:48.000 --> 00:56:01.000
So if you look at the kind of tenure shifts, you know the rise and those renting privately in law school cross comes almost directly correlated to the decline. and 100 those host and social host and so

00:56:01.000 --> 00:56:17.000
I think as well. The other thing is all these you know, ran strikes and bottles that were full by classical corporation tenants, and the 1970 S. 1980 S. and 1990s against dampness against atrocious conductions

00:56:17.000 --> 00:56:27.000
against the complete work of amenities at no point was the demand for their to be less public hosting or to stop building public housing.

00:56:27.000 --> 00:56:32.000
It's a bit demand for public hosting that's worthy of the name.

00:56:32.000 --> 00:56:45.000
So I think you know, history can be weaponized in different ways, and then the failures of more than I still cancel host in the twentieth century can be used to justify.

00:56:45.000 --> 00:56:49.000
You know that there should be no cancel. I was single.

00:56:49.000 --> 00:56:57.000
Oh, but there was a nice quote I found that i'll communicate publication from Easter House in the seventies, and I, Guy talking a bit, has to do the scheme.

00:56:57.000 --> 00:57:01.000
One of the reasons, you know, and everything they they had to go through.

00:57:01.000 --> 00:57:13.000
You said the point was not that they shouldn't fault for that if they hadn't thought they wouldn't have had anything at all, and I think it's easy people maybe no looking back they don't live through.

00:57:13.000 --> 00:57:19.000
It, you romanticized, You know, some of the tenant communities and the slums.

00:57:19.000 --> 00:57:34.000
But I think, yeah, it was a polling of polling conductions and we're definitely not, you know, but not in that situation, though, to the ver factories here. Okay, i've got a couple of couple of quick, questions and then I think Well,

00:57:34.000 --> 00:57:39.000
we'll wrap things up for and first one actually is a little bit of a suggestion actually from Norman.

00:57:39.000 --> 00:57:46.000
He's seen with searching Glasgow newspapers not be a productive source of contemporary documentary material journalism.

00:57:46.000 --> 00:57:55.000
As the first draft of history. Yeah, Absolutely. Yeah. One of the best things I found was yeah.

00:57:55.000 --> 00:58:01.000
The entire record of of a newspaper community newspaper called the the Easter host voice.

00:58:01.000 --> 00:58:05.000
They have the metro library It's incredible resource not no.

00:58:05.000 --> 00:58:09.000
I got all Kate Wilson's just finished a PHD.

00:58:09.000 --> 00:58:25.000
On community rating, and in class was the house and schemes, and she used a lot of newspaper records, community papers, and also she uncovered a lot of a workers educational association pamphlets chemistry pamphlets create a great and

00:58:25.000 --> 00:58:33.000
pamphlets at the time. so yeah absolutely okay i've got one more question, and then we'll wrap things up.

00:58:33.000 --> 00:58:40.000
Folks, and this is from Mariana. Would you be able to give us a bit of a flavor of what the loving conditions were like?

00:58:40.000 --> 00:58:48.000
And Glasgow in the nineteenth century. Excellent!

00:58:48.000 --> 00:58:56.000
Yes, so this was a yeah, so that's a pure we call this weird screen.

00:58:56.000 --> 00:59:08.000
I'll i'll send the new bill send it a meeting list, or something after the but called Glasgow going for a song by a quartz fragrant angles and there's famous condition

00:59:08.000 --> 00:59:11.000
of the working class in England, I mean of 1844.

00:59:11.000 --> 00:59:16.000
That was, mainly based on conditions of Manchester.

00:59:16.000 --> 00:59:23.000
But the living conditions in class goes backlines we're so unspeakable.

00:59:23.000 --> 00:59:31.000
Here you produce them so Angle said. I have seen human degradation in some of its worst phases, both in England and abroad.

00:59:31.000 --> 00:59:45.000
I can advisely see that I did not believe until I visited the wayanes of Glasgow. The sole large, and my main affiliate misery and disease existed in one sport in any civilized country the wings consists of long

00:59:45.000 --> 00:59:50.000
lean, so narrow that a cart could with difficulty pass along them.

00:59:50.000 --> 01:00:03.000
I. Of these open the closest, which are courts of about 15 or 20 feet square, then, which the house is mostly of 3 stories high or built center of the court, is that dong Hell was probably is the most lucrative part of this state

01:00:03.000 --> 01:00:15.000
to the layer In most instances i'm went to with consequently be esteemed an invasion of the rights of property to remove, and the lower lodging host is 1012 or sometimes 20 persons, of both sexes

01:00:15.000 --> 01:00:27.000
and all ages sleep promiscuously on the floor, and different degrees of nakedness; and these places are generally, as regards darts, damp, and decay, such as no person of common humanity.

01:00:27.000 --> 01:00:34.000
The stable, his horse and and yeah, and keep out the credible profits being made from industry.

01:00:34.000 --> 01:00:43.000
And empire at the time on top, with a heat. The human misery and the people paid. I made land was very rich for the privilege.

01:00:43.000 --> 01:00:48.000
11, those congestions. So I think yeah it's lots of medieval.

01:00:48.000 --> 01:00:57.000
Yeah, , Okay, Well, thank you so much. for that.

01:00:57.000 --> 01:01:03.000
Julie, I really enjoyed that. I hope everybody else found that really interesting.

01:01:03.000 --> 01:01:10.000
What I found quite interesting. This is slightly slightly comedic, was to see actually some footage of the Duke of Wellington statue.
 

00:00:07.000 --> 00:00:16.000
Thank you very much if you can hear me and see me then We've made our first made our first step, and done that correctly.

00:00:16.000 --> 00:00:24.000
Good afternoon, everyone. Good afternoon. Good early evening. Happy International Dance Day in anticipation of of tomorrow.

00:00:24.000 --> 00:00:29.000
So. yeah, this is quite a timely little thing to do for dance day.

00:00:29.000 --> 00:00:38.000
I'm very interested in the craft of filmmaking That's kind of what I what I what I teach about, and it's you kind of what I what I write about.

00:00:38.000 --> 00:00:41.000
And think about a lot the nuts and bolts of filmmaking.

00:00:41.000 --> 00:00:46.000
And not too long ago I was having a

00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:53.000
A period of enjoying musicals as I often do I'm, never too far away from a musical, and I started to.

00:00:53.000 --> 00:01:04.000
I started to to kind of get attached to this idea that perhaps musicals are the the true birthplace of visual effects in cinema.

00:01:04.000 --> 00:01:12.000
When we think of special effects and visual effects and cinema, we tend to think of monsters, spaceships, etc.

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Fantastical things. but I started to think perhaps there's a case to be made.

00:01:16.000 --> 00:01:21.000
The musicals already started this, and it would stand to reason.

00:01:21.000 --> 00:01:28.000
The history and the development of musicals is intrinsically tied up with the development of film.

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Early film, the very first, the very first talky, was, in fact, a musical.

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If you think of the jazz singer there's as much singing and music in it as there is dialogue.

00:01:36.000 --> 00:01:50.000
The screen in some ways was as ready for music as it was as it was for speaking at the time, and then musicals occupied this very special kind of space in cinema in that they are sometimes realistic.

00:01:50.000 --> 00:01:56.000
Some. Sometimes they make excuses for having music and and dancing and performances in the film.

00:01:56.000 --> 00:02:07.000
There's lots of particularly early hollywood films that are that are about performance that are sort of backstage musicals or films that are about people putting on a show, and So we get to see the show and that's how

00:02:07.000 --> 00:02:20.000
the music is worked in, and then sometimes musicals are in the more sort of West Side story vein where carried but more operatic, and like a cinema version of opera wire characters will just bust into song and there'll be

00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:26.000
a number, and those ones are very interesting, because they ostensibly take place in the real world.

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But they but they sort of bend they bend the rules of reality somewhat in real life.

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People don't suddenly burst into song. and they son you don't start doing fantastic things.

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So I find those musicals. Those musicals are particularly interesting ones.

00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:54.000
To look at. so it's it's really exploring the idea, the idea today that perhaps the musicals of the true originators are special effects, and perhaps there's a kind of straight line.

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We can draw from some of the early musicals to 2 more fantastical things.

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Perhaps we need top hat. have star wars perhaps there's a very straight link of kind of fantastical filmmaking that joins the 2.

00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:14.000
And so to that End we're going to look at a small handful of films, and we're going to have a couple of a couple of Freda stairs and a couple of gene carries I don't want

00:03:14.000 --> 00:03:17.000
to pit the 2 men against each other because that would be nuts.

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We've got both, and we can enjoy both were very we're. very lucky. but they were both definitely during the sort of golden age of Hollywood.

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They were both definitely at the top of their game, both definitely about approaching.

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Approaching the whole idea of musicals in different in different ways.

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Gene. Kenny was much more of a craftsman, and was much more involved in Wanted to put new things on the screen himself.

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Furnace there. we just wanted to kind of affect the effect the dance, but it might be interesting to look at a few of these with this idea that just maybe you know make maybe there's there's something going on

00:03:55.000 --> 00:04:02.000
that's that that we that we haven't formally seen about musicals in their place as as special effects films.

00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:05.000
So let's start with one let's jump straight into a clip.

00:04:05.000 --> 00:04:13.000
I would like to show you a bit of a film called if I can find it called Cover Girl.

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Now. i'll bring this up and then I started in a moment cover.

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Girl is a Gene Kerry movie from 1,944, directed by Charles Vidor.

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It has a sequence. It that's normally referred to as the mirror dance it's let's bring it to the cover. That's the fun there in the sequence.

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Jim Kelly is having a moment of crisis and a moment of personal introspection, and it does one of those kind of slightly fantastical things that musicals do, and and certainly the gene county musicals do in that

00:04:49.000 --> 00:04:57.000
it all. all gets represented through the medium of dance, but not just any dance a dance that we hadn't seen on screen before.

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Jim Kelly was very keen to do a dance where he dances with a reflection of himself.

00:05:02.000 --> 00:05:10.000
And you put that idea to the director charles charles Vedar and the director said, no, that's not that's not going to be possible.

00:05:10.000 --> 00:05:13.000
We don't have the technology to have you dancing with your cell on the screen.

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That's nuts and he said no i'm i'm pretty sure I can do it, and he dropped up away himself that he that he that this could be done and they ended up giving him the studio giving him a camera man and

00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:29.000
giving him a skirt and staff for the weekend.

00:05:29.000 --> 00:05:40.000
Basically on this idea. they had come up with and said go for it. This is the results. So we're going to look at the clip, and then we're going to talk after It's about what approach you might have taken to do

00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:45.000
it bear in mind the bit of technology that he was missing and wanting to dance with himself is the thing that didn't exist.

00:05:45.000 --> 00:05:57.000
But he couldn't get his hands on in 1,944 would be some kind of device for recording how our camera moves, and then repeating it exactly if I would make a film with myself.

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I've got to do some kind of split screen but the camera's not going to stay still, So if the camera moves, and I then I film the other half with the camera moving again.

00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:10.000
How can I possibly get those 2 things to line up? There was no technology at the time to do it.

00:06:10.000 --> 00:06:13.000
So Jane had a a workaround and he had to think about how to do it.

00:06:13.000 --> 00:06:16.000
So i'm going to show you the click while we're watching it.

00:06:16.000 --> 00:06:20.000
Think about how you think he might have done it and then Well, I shall reveal after it.

00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:25.000
So I'm going to share the clip from the beginning obviously, if you you can, to, if you can.

00:06:25.000 --> 00:06:28.000
All you can all see this news if you can't see it and hear it.

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I'm sure this will work just scream and i'll and i'll solve it.

00:06:31.000 --> 00:06:46.000
But otherwise here is a Here is the mirror dance from 1,940 four's cover, though

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Beauty like rusty's the man's legs Huh!

00:06:49.000 --> 00:06:58.000
She loves me. I love her that's all 2 people need and why didn't she meet you at the oyster bar tonight?

00:06:58.000 --> 00:07:08.000
Something happened. She'll explain it tomorrow. wait a minute, Danny Mcguire.

00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:14.000
She stood you up and you know it she's out with waiting and you know that, too.

00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:21.000
So she's out with wheat what dimmers does it make penny

00:07:21.000 --> 00:07:29.000
Don't be such a hard-headed Irishman for once. if you really love Rusty, it let it go.

00:07:29.000 --> 00:07:34.000
Coder's right you have nothing to give her Wheaton has everything.

00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:45.000
Hey, Danny, you can't run away from yourself you got to make up your mind about this, and i'm gonna see that you do it.

00:07:45.000 --> 00:08:15.000
Now wait a minute! Stop!

00:10:19.000 --> 00:10:25.000
That's pretty intense stuff isn't it and quite as quite a destructive destructive little ending there.

00:10:25.000 --> 00:10:34.000
Now you're probably all dreaming up some sort of ideas about how we might have done that. when you see superimpose film, someone goes invisible.

00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:38.000
The person you. The film you you put on top goes goes not invisible.

00:10:38.000 --> 00:10:46.000
See through So he's really benefited from I mean he said to choreograph both parts for a start, and then block it out and decide how it's going to be filmed.

00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:51.000
But the real trick is, how does he get? How does he move the camera around and film both bits?

00:10:51.000 --> 00:10:56.000
Well, they they trained up a cameraman because the cameras were enormous, heavy things.

00:10:56.000 --> 00:11:02.000
They trained up a cameraman to move the camera on the according to the to the beats of the song

00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:05.000
And so he would be moving it, and someone would be counting.

00:11:05.000 --> 00:11:18.000
1, 2, 3, 4, move it back, 1 2 3 4 move it left, and that captures the second dancing gene, and the second dancing gene, as you saw, was was transparent, because he's filmed as as a

00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:23.000
superimposed character. Now the thing we couldn't do is couldn't line it up perfectly.

00:11:23.000 --> 00:11:30.000
He could move it so that the camera background is said so that the camera was moving almost exactly the same ways before.

00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:35.000
But human error means it'll never line up perfectly so why don't we see 2 backgrounds?

00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:38.000
Why do we only see? And the second superimposed bit why don't we?

00:11:38.000 --> 00:11:41.000
Why did we only see 1 one gene and not a background?

00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:48.000
If we could see the background you'd see all the background going out of focus as the 2 backgrounds blurred together as they didn't properly line up.

00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:53.000
This is the problem Gene had to solve. so his solution was incredibly practical.

00:11:53.000 --> 00:12:02.000
One. he got as much black velvet as he could possibly lay his hands on, covered the needs for the second run through, covered the entire set from tops of bottom with black velvet.

00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:09.000
So the second time round he was dancing in a completely blacked out room, so he couldn't see the stairs he couldn't see the pole to slide down.

00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:14.000
He couldn't see the gantry he runs across He had to do it all from memory, because it was like that.

00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:17.000
It was like being upside down or being in a sensory deprivation room.

00:12:17.000 --> 00:12:27.000
And so he had to dance all that in a complete blackout, and the camera man had to remember all his beats having someone behind him sort of pulling him and going now start turning right, now start turning left.

00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:31.000
So he would just pick up the the second the second dancing Gene.

00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:42.000
It's an incredible fate, I love it I mean it's a it's a majestic bit of a bit of a bit of choreography, and it is the original It sort of is the original blue screen

00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:51.000
it's black screen is blacked. out the whole background and of course he wants the the other gene to be transparent because he's a reflection.

00:12:51.000 --> 00:12:54.000
Only wish it was a true reflection. The other gene.

00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:58.000
His pocket is still on the left. It really upsets me every time I watch it.

00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:01.000
I think, could they know if they if he wasn't doing that by himself on a kind of spare?

00:13:01.000 --> 00:13:05.000
We can. A seamstress at Columbia would have just a move.

00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:14.000
That bucket for him quickly. but it's an amazing feat, and it sort of predates a lot of the technology that got invented in the seventys.

00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:22.000
So in the seventies they've been to something called a motion control rig which they used in films like star wars and science fictiony stuff.

00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:27.000
Perfectly replicate a camera move and they needed it for familiar star warscomes for filming special effects.

00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:40.000
Shots and emotion control rig is basically a camera on a big arm on a on a track, and it just moves where you send it, and then you press again and it moves exactly where you send it again and you can it's

00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:45.000
completely replicated, reputable, reputable. But again

00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:52.000
So if you have one of those at the time problem solved but he didn't, so he basically invented one from from scratch.

00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:57.000
And so it's the it's the original it's before blue screen technology existed.

00:13:57.000 --> 00:14:00.000
Otherwise he may have been tempted to do on a blue screen.

00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:07.000
But the the studio said, he couldn't do it so he had to do it himself, which is very very Gene Kelly.

00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:14.000
He just took the weekend and and and get it himself, and the result was amazing.

00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:23.000
The cameras weighed £500 at that point, so you can imagine how hard it was to get someone to move the camera and then to replicate that movement exactly.

00:14:23.000 --> 00:14:31.000
All had to be done or had to be an absolutely absolutely musicically So that's our first gene category.

00:14:31.000 --> 00:14:37.000
I hope you enjoyed that one it's it's it's a it's a very it's a very clever one.

00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:44.000
I want to show you something equally clever from around the same period, slightly later, 1,951.

00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:52.000
This next clip. so 90 51 I want to show you a clip from a film called Royal Wedding, which is a slightly lesser known Fred Stair, Musical.

00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:58.000
And You're lucky because i've just got hold of a very nice new copy of this it's a film that's in It's in the public domain.

00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:04.000
Unfortunately, it's it's copyright expired so almost any dvd you buy of it?

00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:12.000
Would be it's a horrible kind of Vh. jie copy, but I've got a lovely new copy to show you.

00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:17.000
So this sequence in royal wedding is quite well known but it's another one where we ship think about how it's done.

00:15:17.000 --> 00:15:27.000
Really we're going to see freddie's fred is in love, and it's another sort of fantasy sequence and furniture is going to dance by round at room up the walls

00:15:27.000 --> 00:15:34.000
across the ceiling and down again. Have a look at this one and it just as we go.

00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:40.000
Just have a think about let me find it. We have a think about exactly how how they might have done this. it's again.

00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:49.000
It's It can only be practical only the only practical technologies exist at this time, so here's a little bit from 1,950 one's.

00:15:49.000 --> 00:16:19.000
Royal wedding. let's bring it to the front and here it is

00:16:31.000 --> 00:16:42.000
Everywhere that you you are everywhere an orchid, rose. Whoa!

00:16:42.000 --> 00:17:01.000
Everything that's young and gay Brighter than a Holloway everywhere the you are your like Paris in April.

00:17:01.000 --> 00:17:12.000
May your cause day with South, as the sun grows fainter, your lot, Lowman.

00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:42.000
When autumn is fly all night, and get 3 looking out of the sea, you're all places that leave me, and no wonder you're all the world

00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:44.000
Fantastic stuff isn't it fantastic stuff they do not make them like that anymore.

00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:49.000
When you think about that one there's only really one way they could have done it.

00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:53.000
Fred is there, for all his talents and all disabilities could not defy gravity.

00:20:53.000 --> 00:20:59.000
At least not 100%. So what we're looking at is a set of room.

00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:11.000
Imagine a set of a room built inside a barrel and you roll the barrel, and you so I from attached to the room, is a is like a is a camera that's fixed.

00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:23.000
There's sitting on the same for sitting on the floor of the room, and then it's inside a barrel and it rolls, and when it rolls the camera rolls and the camera man rolls and the camera man and the camera and

00:21:23.000 --> 00:21:26.000
the room, and the floor, and the walls in the ceiling all turn upside down.

00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:32.000
They all rotate, but fred because he's a human being, and is affected by gravity.

00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:44.000
To stay standing the right way up so from our point of view We're staying still and Fred is moving from hit from but from the point of view of the film it looks like Fred goes up around the wall it's very

00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:48.000
clever isn't that it's a very it's just very well executed, that it looks like it's all one take.

00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:51.000
There are a couple of tiny hidden cups in it.

00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:58.000
I suspect they had to pause to. It goes in 90 degree increments, and I expect to make it a back the other way.

00:21:58.000 --> 00:22:11.000
They had to break. But fred is so good and so Well, choreographed that he he moves through that through the sort of hidden break You don't you don't really spot it it's it's a I mean it's you

00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:14.000
can you can see how it's done it's incredibly practical.

00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:16.000
The things that I like about it are there's lights hanging from the ceiling.

00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:22.000
So the whole. the room has electricity so that's wiring like providing electricity in the room.

00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:36.000
And there's that lovely moment where he's on the ceiling, and he reaches down and he picks the the frame photo off the desk, which is now in reality dangling upside down above him he picks it up and looks

00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:38.000
at it as if he's the right way up that was done with a magnet.

00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:47.000
It was magnetized to the desk I found it into Stanley Dunning, Director, who directed that race, said, That's It's sort of stuck on with a magnet, so you can go and just and just put

00:22:47.000 --> 00:22:59.000
it off brilliant stuff isn't it really very clever thinking about how all these special effects that were developed for musicals kind of had a long long tail and influenced other things that happened later.

00:22:59.000 --> 00:23:11.000
I thought it might be quite nice. so have a very quick look at this. I've already got a small copy of this this little sequence here from 2,001 a space.

00:23:11.000 --> 00:23:21.000
Odyssey so jump forward to 1,968 and we've got exactly the same special effect.

00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:39.000
You're saying it in and and it's a revealing how it worked as it as it were and i'll show you how it looks in the finished film as well. So that's your standard cubic loved a rotating

00:23:39.000 --> 00:23:43.000
set so that's kind of an approximation of how he of how he did that.

00:23:43.000 --> 00:23:54.000
If I stop sharing that instead. share this you can see what that looks like in the finished in the finished movie.

00:23:54.000 --> 00:24:24.000
It's exactly the same technology have a look at that

00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:46.000
So can we say without without royal wedding there's no 2,001 space, Obviously, maybe not.

00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:58.000
Maybe that's slightly overstating it but certainly so that you could have been loved to big a big practical set, and that was the only way to do that effect. and it's done exactly the way that it was done by Freddie There those

00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:12.000
kind of those 17 years earlier. So only dome and also directed a film in the eightys chord break into electric boogaloo, which is a breakdown movie, and i'm going to show you 15 s of it

00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:20.000
because it's just because it's international dance day, which uses exactly the same technology. So Stanley Donum was still doing this.

00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:26.000
Yes, lady, and he made it more sophisticated.

00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:32.000
But he You see, the camera is a bit more mobile.

00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:37.000
I can and pans and tracks around a little bit and it's not on a flat angle, but it's exactly the same technology.

00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:54.000
The room moves the dancing guy. Stay still

00:25:54.000 --> 00:25:56.000
Like ends with the few more clever little visual effects.

00:25:56.000 --> 00:26:24.000
The the guy's girlfriend comes in and and then, during this bit here she sort of uncomfortably bolted to the wall, first down

00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:31.000
That's it's a little treat for you just because it's international down today, tomorrow, you know, to go all the way from Freddis there to break into electric boogaloo.

00:26:31.000 --> 00:26:46.000
But it's the same technology, a rotating room, and people, the people staying still, but very effective, I think, and very, extremely extremely influential, as we saw in in the the 2,001 clip, as well, So we have one.

00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:58.000
Gene, and we've had one fred time for another Gene i'm gonna show you a little bit of a film called anchors away from 1,945 at some Mgm.

00:26:58.000 --> 00:27:10.000
Movie gene, Kenny being the being the the the film innovator, that he was, decided that he would really like to dance with a cartoon character in this movie.

00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:14.000
He wanted to have a number where he was dancing with a completely animated dance.

00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:27.000
Partner. His first idea was, he wanted to start. with Mickey mouse making mouse being the the the biggest and most recognizable cartoon character at the time the producers thought it couldn't be done.

00:27:27.000 --> 00:27:42.000
They said, No, there's no way we can combine lines action. and and an animation in a way that will in a way that's sophisticated enough you to actually dance and interact with a character so once again poral Gene was was

00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:49.000
was doubted. but Joe Pasanac, who was produced in the film.

00:27:49.000 --> 00:27:54.000
He liked it, and he asked Jean to speak to Walt Disney directly.

00:27:54.000 --> 00:27:59.000
Walt Disney love the idea. Just thought, Yeah. fantastic. More more more exposure for making mouse.

00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:11.000
But it was 1,945 it was the more years. Disney were having trouble, even distributing their own films at the time they couldn't spare anybody to do an animation of Mickey mouse for the

00:28:11.000 --> 00:28:16.000
film. So the idea looked like it was going to fall completely.

00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:28.000
Fact, but anchors away is mgm fell and Mgm had their own cartoon cartoon characters, their own cartoon properties, as it were, and they had Tom and Jerry so why not

00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:32.000
utilize them. they're well known enough people know who Thomas Jerry are so.

00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:39.000
The idea came, became that Gene would dance with with Jerry the Mouse, and so he does.

00:28:39.000 --> 00:28:51.000
So in the clip we're going to see it's this is a choreographed dance between very human gene, Kelly, and a very animated if I can just find the clip in a second a very

00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:59.000
animated. Jerry the mouse and it's how it's done is not hugely complicated.

00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:08.000
Oh, if you you may have seen animation cells at 1 point They're kind of painted on clear clear sheets of plastic, clear estate.

00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:10.000
Normally they draw a background for animation, and then they paint the characters.

00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:19.000
I a bit of clear plastic, so animation cells have a transparent background already.

00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:28.000
So if you wanted to superimpose one with a bit of live action footage that would actually work really well, because they're opaque, unlike film which is, see through.

00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:31.000
So you've already got an opaque medium with a with a with a clear background.

00:29:31.000 --> 00:29:42.000
So you can actually sound them with a bit of film and technically. It'll make a really nice and to make a really nice math. It'll just block itself out, and it should look really good together.

00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:47.000
The sophisticated thing in this central clip is that Jerry the Mouse has a really lovely reflection.

00:29:47.000 --> 00:29:52.000
Starting characters really have reflections, but have a look at how lovely and shiny is Reflection is here.

00:29:52.000 --> 00:30:11.000
So this is the dance number of a song called the king who couldn't sing from 1945 bankers of way,

00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:17.000
Tell me it makes the mirror

00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:27.000
Hello! hello! Just a sailor come of visiting. Why are you sad?

00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:36.000
Oh, yes, you will ourselves. Yes, you are love Well, you deserve to be lonesome.

00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:43.000
Lonesome's too good for you passing a law like that not letting people sing and dance aren't you ashamed of yourself?

00:30:43.000 --> 00:30:51.000
I haven't what do you mean you had it well

00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:58.000
Only better,

00:30:58.000 --> 00:31:11.000
I you can't so sick does anybody can well not anybody that's cracky and food being grumpy, but anybody whose heart is big and warm and happy.

00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:18.000
They can try it just for a minute. try being happy. If you were Re.

00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:25.000
If you worry if you bother you I do it won't help you with 4 won't help you it will hurt you instead.

00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:30.000
Growners, cranks and mowners they're so unfair.

00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:35.000
You can't be gay and merry lock yourself in solitary though it hurt you.

00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:42.000
Go. it hurt you. Be a pleasanter guy. you may even learn to like it if you give it a try.

00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:50.000
Good laugh at singing dances, Maybe as an help but don't expect to get much help if you don't help yourself.

00:31:50.000 --> 00:32:01.000
Will you try if you show me i'll show you i'll try Good! 1, 2, 3, 4, 1 2 3, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3 love along.

00:32:01.000 --> 00:32:31.000
You see,

00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:16.000
It's not brilliant that's great stuff. There was nothing technically impossible about that is just hard work.

00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:28.000
It's just he did someone's had to walk jean Kelly himself has had to really sort of grind to to choreograph that and make that and make that really work.

00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:40.000
He he's worked it all out and then they animates us coming and done that thing like I say animated characters don't normally have things like reflections or shine or anything so I think that's

00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:44.000
sequence, where he's kind of walking walking towards the camera and They're on a very shiny floor.

00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:53.000
It would look all for if jerry the mouse didn't have a shiny reflection in it as well, so they had to do an extra bit of leg work in kind of flipping the flipping the the image of

00:34:53.000 --> 00:35:00.000
Jerry upside down and making it transparent. so just an additional step to kind of blend him in with the live action.

00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:08.000
Now, of course, the legacy of live action and and animation together is films like Ufrain Roger Rabbit, which kind of takes that to the to the extreme.

00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:24.000
And there are. there are other examples but the legacy of that in in Jan Kelly's career is that he got really really into it, and for his first directorial credit, which is 11 years later, a phone called invitation to the dance

00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:35.000
1,956 it's a whole film of just dance numbers, and one of the sections isn't isn't done it using entirely, animation.

00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:41.000
So he took this idea, and just have worked it up into a into a Maxif into a massive project.

00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:52.000
So i'm got the i've got a trailer we can just look at quickly for invitation to the dance rather than the than the homobe and you'll get to see a sort of taste of it and

00:35:52.000 --> 00:36:04.000
you see how far he pushed this idea of interacting with the interacting with animated with animated characters,

00:36:04.000 --> 00:36:18.000
Ladies and gentlemen, this is George Peterson inviting you to a program preview of invitation to the desk hailed by those who know as one of the most imaginative productions ever conceived filmed and tech the color it

00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:36.000
stars. Gene Kelly, the incomparable young who thrilled you, and singing in the rain the superb Kelly, who starred in that wonderful production, an American in Paris

00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:42.000
Now the extraordinary gene Kelly brings to the screen a delightfully new and modern form of motion.

00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:49.000
Picture entertainment Invitation to the dance with this great star in his new picture.

00:36:49.000 --> 00:37:09.000
He's a cast to international dan's favorites prevention, of view. Igor, you escape it Come on up to monitor Carol Haney, Claire Somber Belita and many more you are now witnessing

00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:17.000
a sequence from circus

00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:28.000
The music is played by the Royal philharmonic Orchestra, conducted by John Hollingsworth, of Sadler's Welles Ballet Faith, the celebrated French composer, Jacques Ebert composed the

00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:34.000
music. This tells the dramatic story of the unrequited love of a clown for a beautiful ballet.

00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:43.000
Answer. And just for variety, here is an ultra-modern presentation entitled, Ring around the Road.

00:37:43.000 --> 00:37:48.000
This is the amusing story of a jeweled bracelet which travels from one set of lovers to the next.

00:37:48.000 --> 00:38:05.000
Finally returning to its original owner on its merry-ground trail

00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:24.000
Andre Preven, recognized as one of our finest concert and recording artists, composed the unusual modern score, and also performs the piano songs

00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:32.000
Jean Kelly, who went, introduced the novelty, combination of live action and animation in Cinema Dripsy Court now achieves even greater stature in Sinbad.

00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:44.000
The sailor Rinsky Kosikovs, the immortal shares on sweet and riches, the magic of this cartoon venison, the full 100 piece Mgm Symphony Conducted by

00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:56.000
Johnny Green record of the music adapted by Roger Eden

00:38:56.000 --> 00:39:06.000
In invitation to the dance is a new endeavor in screen entertainment, combining the outstanding talents of the world of arts, music, and the dance.

00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:13.000
It is a project that is bold, ambitious, but most of all unprecedented.

00:39:13.000 --> 00:39:26.000
We recommend it sincere for a new adventure in motion, picture enjoyment,

00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:35.000
So you can see, by the time you got that whole thing out of his system he was with the lone human character in a completely animated world rather than rather than vice versa.

00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:40.000
That was definitely, I think he went through Sorry about the low slightly low quality copy of that clip that's the best I could find.

00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:46.000
I should have pointed out as well when I showed the the rotating 2,001 space.

00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:50.000
Odyssey clip the the corrected one where she stays still on the thing where it takes found I didn't make that I found that online.

00:39:50.000 --> 00:39:59.000
So if you're watching this and you made that thank you very much, I can't honestly heart number where I where I found it.

00:39:59.000 --> 00:40:01.000
Let's have one more i've got time to squeeze in one more click.

00:40:01.000 --> 00:40:04.000
I'm going to show you this one because I don't know how it's done.

00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:09.000
So this is a way to leave you with a little something to think about, and to ponder.

00:40:09.000 --> 00:40:18.000
I'm going to show you a clip from blue skies just 1,946. and this was originally talented as Frederick Stair's final movie.

00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:22.000
So they wanted to do something really big and majestic for his for his final dance.

00:40:22.000 --> 00:40:32.000
It turns out he was brought back out of retirement pretty quickly, but at the time this was going to be the last time we saw we saw Fred.

00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:35.000
You'll understand when you when you see it but There's some.

00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:47.000
There's a technology going on here that I haven't quite managed to figure out we're going to see Fred dancing with a multiple of threads in the background, and there seems to be a pretty seamless.

00:40:47.000 --> 00:40:51.000
Blend between the background threads and the front the front the foreground.

00:40:51.000 --> 00:41:04.000
Fred. Now there's a guy credited on this film called Fascio Edward, who was a process photographer who had developed an amazing technology for showing for rear projection, which is when you can show a big background

00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:14.000
a big animated background behind you on a screen and he's quoted on this, and I think it may be some kind of rear projection going on, but it's very, very, sharp, very crisp, much better than a

00:41:14.000 --> 00:41:21.000
rear projection normally is, I found an interview with Fred a stair where he said he danced it, and then he wasn't allowed to see it for months.

00:41:21.000 --> 00:41:31.000
So there was some post-production going on which wouldn't have been the case if it was rear projection, so maybe there's some blue sc If there's blue screen on This it's the shot those pin sharp lovely blue

00:41:31.000 --> 00:41:37.000
screen, especially for the especially for the time there's lots of little clues to look for.

00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:41.000
In theory. the background behind him is too big for a rear projection screen.

00:41:41.000 --> 00:41:51.000
But Farsio Edward had been working on this on using bigger screens by having other other projectors all synchronized together.

00:41:51.000 --> 00:42:04.000
And you he could synchronize 3 projectors together. and There's 9 Freds so part of me thinks 3 projectors per Fred lining them up that could have happened I Don't know I can't figure

00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:10.000
out by looking at it, and have not managed to find any particularly good research or interviews for the time. That really show how it's done.

00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:16.000
So it's really just here for us to for us to enjoy, and for us to then sort of ponder on.

00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:46.000
So here is what would have been for reads final dance from blue skies, and you're going to have to knock yourself out figuring out how this is done.

00:42:49.000 --> 00:43:11.000
Have you seen the well to do up and down Park Avenue, that famous thorough affairs with their noses in the air, high hats and arrow comeers, white spats, and lots of dollars, spending every die far a wonderful

00:43:11.000 --> 00:43:24.000
time with your and you don't know where to go to why don't you go where fashion sits button on the Ritz?

00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:29.000
Different types of wear redecoat pants with stripes and cut away coat.

00:43:29.000 --> 00:43:38.000
Perfect fits button on the writ, dressed up like a 1 million dollar.

00:43:38.000 --> 00:43:46.000
True, trying hard to look like Gary Cooper. so.

00:43:46.000 --> 00:44:16.000
But Duke Bert come let's mix for rock Thefelders walk with sticks or umbrellas in their myths along the Ritz

00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:05.000
And there you have it. What would have been fred's last dance on film, even watching that Now I look at that thing.

00:47:05.000 --> 00:47:10.000
There's any clues as to whether I can get any closer to how that was done.

00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:19.000
None whatsoever. have a lovely international dance day tomorrow, if one whenever you choose to do it, we've got time for questions, so you can.

00:47:19.000 --> 00:47:27.000
I'm sure you have questions whether I have answers on that is, there is another is another issue. But i'm happy to to field any that you've any that You've got I know if you want to make a guess as

00:47:27.000 --> 00:47:31.000
how that last one was done i'm always happy to chew that over with anybody.

00:47:31.000 --> 00:47:37.000
So. thank you very much. That was a bit good Christopher. I really enjoyed that one.

00:47:37.000 --> 00:47:42.000
I hope everybody else does and I think you've done everybody into silence a little bit.

00:47:42.000 --> 00:47:48.000
But We've got one question so let's click off with that, and we'll see here we go on.

00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:54.000
No, let me just find it. It was actually about cover, girl light at the start with, said Jean.

00:47:54.000 --> 00:48:01.000
Kelly and Sue is asking how many ticks were done for each gene.

00:48:01.000 --> 00:48:10.000
Do we know? Don't know for sure but I do know that they only had a weekend to film it.

00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:20.000
So I found an int i've got an interview with them with Jin's widow where she talked about it. talks about how that was done because for a long time people didn't didn't know it was only and he

00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:29.000
didn't really sort of talk about they're nuts and balances work at that time, and I know they had 3 weeks to work out the scene, and 2 days of shooting.

00:48:29.000 --> 00:48:39.000
So there's a lot of choreography to to to work out i it's one of those it's one of those train hard fight easy things I think.

00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:46.000
But you do all the choreography and you've got it all absolutely nailed when you go in, and you're actually kind of spending money on the on the weekend So if you've got 2

00:48:46.000 --> 00:48:57.000
weekend days to shoot that over that weekend you've got to wrap up the entire set in black velvet at some point, probably over the middle night, so they probably took a day to film each to film each part I

00:48:57.000 --> 00:49:05.000
would think that would have been hard to film the second ones because nobody because we wouldn't know where you are. but he found over quite a bit.

00:49:05.000 --> 00:49:14.000
I think he said At this interview I found he said it was it was like, Jean said it was disorientating like a pilot trying to fly a plane upside down.

00:49:14.000 --> 00:49:18.000
Because they But if you let's not be in a completely blacked out room.

00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:26.000
There's no there's there's no there's an and velvet is of course the reason they use that is, and i'm it's like my jacket it's it's there's no light at all there's

00:49:26.000 --> 00:49:35.000
no reflections. It reads us completely black on camera so you'd get so that enables him to be completely seed through and have no background at all.

00:49:35.000 --> 00:49:42.000
So yes. But so the answer to the question in a long, winded way is probably as many takes as you could do in a day.

00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:56.000
Which I mean knowing Jean kennedy would be quite a few. and then it would be a case of sifting through the in post-production and getting making sure that you've got the bright ones also moving the 500

00:49:56.000 --> 00:50:01.000
pound camera around, even though it's on it's on wheels would not be an easy thing.

00:50:01.000 --> 00:50:06.000
You don't want to have to do it too many times you know, and he only had a kind of skeleton crew doing it.

00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:11.000
So have a camera operator, and maybe one or 2 people even the cameras are like tanks.

00:50:11.000 --> 00:50:17.000
You start moving them, and it's an effort to move them and then they roll, and then you have to sort of stop them.

00:50:17.000 --> 00:50:19.000
So you wouldn't want to do it too many times when you look at that clip.

00:50:19.000 --> 00:50:32.000
You can see there's lots of bits where it does drift slightly, and you can see where you know the like the that. the reflection Gene moves line in the frame or the frame, starts moving and then and then it just

00:50:32.000 --> 00:50:35.000
catches up a little bit, so he's it's not perfectly syncs.

00:50:35.000 --> 00:50:37.000
He could have, you know you could just keep doing it forever.

00:50:37.000 --> 00:50:48.000
But within the tolerance of kind of human the human you know the human ability to repeat those actions. it's as perfect as you could have as you could have got it.

00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:59.000
Yeah, well, okay, very interesting. Lots of nice comments that I'm going to pass on to tomorrow Yeah, we do have lots and less questions.

00:50:59.000 --> 00:51:07.000
But i'm gonna ask you one and off of you know the the clips that you've watched these 2 guys and the innovation.

00:51:07.000 --> 00:51:16.000
What what's your favorite. I do not think Yeah, I do love that one from from blue skies purely, because I don't know how it's done.

00:51:16.000 --> 00:51:19.000
And I think that i'm always really intrigued by things that I can't.

00:51:19.000 --> 00:51:23.000
But I can't quite figure out I mean that that blue skies Clip is amazing even watching it.

00:51:23.000 --> 00:51:33.000
Then I was thinking if it's if it's a brier projection behind him onto a screen, he dances really really back, incredibly close to it.

00:51:33.000 --> 00:51:36.000
And there's there, There should be some if there is a re objection.

00:51:36.000 --> 00:51:44.000
There should be some kind of seam on the floor you should be able to see it, and you can't it looks like the floor just disappeared, and if it's it's blue screen again.

00:51:44.000 --> 00:51:55.000
There should be some kind of edge but he's got a shadow that's falling behind him towards the guys and that's as he moves back that his shadow kind of merges with their shadow and it's like it's

00:51:55.000 --> 00:52:04.000
really there. so i've watched that clip loads and loads and loads of times, and I've never quite got to the bottom of it, and it's a great bit of dancing I found a one of the few blues I found about

00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:07.000
that was in a Parkinson interview from the seventies. No.

00:52:07.000 --> 00:52:20.000
Parkinson interviewed everyone, everybody, those those parking lot. I hope one day they just make them all all available, because he really got a lot of those old Hollywood actors and and and directors.

00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:22.000
And so on. Just why were there some at the end of their careers?

00:52:22.000 --> 00:52:28.000
And they were, and they were feeling a bit talking and they kind of you know, a lot of them kind of talk their way through these these amazing.

00:52:28.000 --> 00:52:31.000
They're going with awesome Wells is amazing but they're the one with Frederick.

00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:37.000
He talks about it, and I was kind of doing something else. and I heard him say blue skies, and I was like he's gonna he's gonna tell us how he's done it.

00:52:37.000 --> 00:52:41.000
But he doesn't really mention it he mentions how the cane springs off the floor.

00:52:41.000 --> 00:52:52.000
Which is which you kind of think how on earth is that done There's a little hydraulic spring in the floor under the floor, and someone has to press a button and it flings the cave in. there.

00:52:52.000 --> 00:52:56.000
But they had to get a musician to do it because it had to be 1, 2, 3, spring.

00:52:56.000 --> 00:53:01.000
But it actually had to be 1, 2, 3, spring, like, so that it comes up on one.

00:53:01.000 --> 00:53:06.000
So you had to get someone that understood the meter of the thing to make in land in his hand.

00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:13.000
I bet they did that a few times. Yeah, just just talking about the blue screen about the blue screen. I've actually got a question from Anne.

00:53:13.000 --> 00:53:16.000
Could you explain a little bit more about exactly what blue screen is?

00:53:16.000 --> 00:53:24.000
So Blue screen is a technology that they they came up with when technical cameras were invented.

00:53:24.000 --> 00:53:34.000
So a technical camera records. it actually records 3 roles of black and white film, but through a prism and through 3 filters a red, green, and a blue.

00:53:34.000 --> 00:53:41.000
And so, if you imagine you filmed something bright red, it goes onto the black and white roll through the red prism.

00:53:41.000 --> 00:53:49.000
It will look really dark on the red roll, and then something really blue will look pretty dark on the blue roll, and so and and and so on.

00:53:49.000 --> 00:53:57.000
And then you combine those those those 3 black and white roles by dying them the opposite color, and put them together and project them.

00:53:57.000 --> 00:54:03.000
And that's how we get that's how technical It works. And that's why technical a film can be preserved, because it's actually 3 roles of black and white film.

00:54:03.000 --> 00:54:07.000
All you need is the right kind of filter to show it through, and we know what kind of filters are so they cut.

00:54:07.000 --> 00:54:11.000
They don't color fade technicolor prints because they're just black and white prints.

00:54:11.000 --> 00:54:24.000
Someone realized that you could that if you film someone against the against a completely blue background on the blue roll, that background would be completely black.

00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:28.000
And you could then make a negative of that, so that a high contrast negative.

00:54:28.000 --> 00:54:41.000
So then the thing in the foreground the person would be completely black in the background to be white, and then you can sound a but photochemically, you can then sandwich those together with a new background, which will print through because the background of the

00:54:41.000 --> 00:54:49.000
blue roll is black, the person will appear and they Won't be transparent because of the in-between map you made, making them black in the background.

00:54:49.000 --> 00:54:58.000
White. it's complicated It was complicated at the time and it's not as simple as green screens are now clicking up, you know.

00:54:58.000 --> 00:55:10.000
Just all done done digitally. It had to be done photochemically. so you would film against a blue background, and you can chemically remove that that blue and place it with with whatever you want prior to that There was black screen They

00:55:10.000 --> 00:55:15.000
did use to film things against black, but they did are using to just one role of black and white film.

00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:18.000
But they what would go wrong with that is, the person in the foreground would be transparent.

00:55:18.000 --> 00:55:22.000
So you see some early, you see some silent films and some early sound films.

00:55:22.000 --> 00:55:32.000
Where they do. they do experiments with that and they they're only ever on screen, very briefly, because there's no way to make the person in the front not transparent. and there was another method that used an orange screen.

00:55:32.000 --> 00:55:45.000
And Disney had yellow screen. Disney discovered a color yellow that got lost in the prism of the of the of the technical camera, and wouldn't appear on any of the 3 roles, and they built this a special prism that could

00:55:45.000 --> 00:55:55.000
then split the light into yellow, and not yellow but meaning you didn't have to make an in-between maps, and it could be incredibly sharp, and they used that for a few they use that for Mary poppins if you think about the bit of Mary

00:55:55.000 --> 00:55:59.000
Poppins, where she dances with the penguins and so forth.

00:55:59.000 --> 00:56:03.000
She's wearing like a lace pat with all veils and bets on it, and it's all really really sharp.

00:56:03.000 --> 00:56:10.000
It's sharper than blue screen should be because they and they had the only camera that could do it that could do yellow screen sodium vapor.

00:56:10.000 --> 00:56:16.000
They called it, and other people tried to make a prism that would capture this yellow color, and they could never do it.

00:56:16.000 --> 00:56:19.000
So there's only one sodium vapor process camera in existence.

00:56:19.000 --> 00:56:27.000
It still exists, and it hasn't been used for years and no one else ever made it was like a bit of like a magic thing that no one else was ever able to make again.

00:56:27.000 --> 00:56:31.000
So there's a brief history of blue screen for you black screen orange screen, blue screen.

00:56:31.000 --> 00:56:39.000
We use green screens now, because digital cameras are twice as sensitive to green light as to red or blue light.

00:56:39.000 --> 00:56:46.000
So you get a sharper edge. on a digital camera. If you if the background you want to remove is green, because it's looking at Green more closely.

00:56:46.000 --> 00:56:50.000
So that's why we move from blue to green very interesting ?

00:56:50.000 --> 00:56:59.000
I've got another question, for you yeah and I think sorry both people's skin is rarely green, So that's why we use blue.

00:56:59.000 --> 00:57:08.000
Because Mr. Strike, I suppose and no one final question, and I think we will wrap things up.

00:57:08.000 --> 00:57:18.000
This is a question from Patrick and I guess it's quite an obvious question to ask was there much competition between Gene and Fridge, and coming up with new effects.

00:57:18.000 --> 00:57:24.000
I'm, assuming there probably was I think there was a kind of a bit I sort of friendly arms race.

00:57:24.000 --> 00:57:37.000
Jean was by far the more involved of the 2 in the in. In that, you know, Gene was the one that went on to become a director, And was I was really hands on and putting us off the screen? Fred never was And he kind of left that

00:57:37.000 --> 00:57:43.000
a little bit to the to that, to the to the technical stuff, for his gene was very involved in it.

00:57:43.000 --> 00:57:51.000
Any of these kind of rivalries, friend here. or otherwise are always dreamed up by Pollywood publicity people, and, in fact, they were really good friends, and they really liked each other.

00:57:51.000 --> 00:57:59.000
If you've ever watched in the early seventys there's a couple of movies called that's entertainment one and 2 where they they both.

00:57:59.000 --> 00:58:03.000
They. they revisit musicals, and they go banded.

00:58:03.000 --> 00:58:09.000
The second one is presented by the 2 of them and that's sort of a bit friendly ribbon, but you can tell they really kind of love each other.

00:58:09.000 --> 00:58:19.000
It's just like an old guy and an even older guy kind of attracted chatting away about their lives. You can tell they really got on Fred, by the way, i'm going to point out in that in Royal

00:58:19.000 --> 00:58:24.000
wedding, where he danced up the wall fabulous 52 when he made that film.

00:58:24.000 --> 00:58:30.000
So there's hope for all of us. Am I still yet managed to dance on a ceiling.

00:58:30.000 --> 00:58:39.000
But there was There was, I think they were actually the best of friends, and I think it was more to do with studios wanting to create big spectacle films that we would go and see.

00:58:39.000 --> 00:58:49.000
And there was always room for both hmm i've actually just had one final question: that's come in, which we'll do this one, and then we'll definitely wrap up and this is from Ian.

00:58:49.000 --> 00:58:52.000
And was there much technical manipulation in the Berkeley movies?

00:58:52.000 --> 00:58:57.000
Now that's not something that i'm familiar with and the exactly B.

00:58:57.000 --> 00:59:03.000
E R. K. l y do you? It does. Do you mean the

00:59:03.000 --> 00:59:08.000
The buck is Broadway that's A that's a a later possibly yes, Oh, no.

00:59:08.000 --> 00:59:17.000
The best people the best people. no, so much, no, Most of those are slightly earlier, and that was all.

00:59:17.000 --> 00:59:25.000
They were all done really with big stages and lots and lots of identity.

00:59:25.000 --> 00:59:30.000
Dressed girls they were. Normally they were pretty good at creating a kind of he was.

00:59:30.000 --> 00:59:41.000
He was very much into this kind. of gometric spec because if you Think of those, you know the the the the buzzer back to comes from that from that thing They're they're quite good at having interesting camera angles so there's often

00:59:41.000 --> 00:59:52.000
a camera suspended, looking down, and the girls were always sort of going, and they'll you know that that was more about the kind of getting really interesting choreography and really interesting camera angles.

00:59:52.000 --> 00:59:58.000
It wasn't quite the era of thinking about of thinking about.

00:59:58.000 --> 01:00:07.000
How can we sort of what what tricks can we do to bump these up them, or there may be there may be ones that i'm that i'm less familiar with?

01:00:07.000 --> 01:00:11.000
Where he does a little bit of surveillance, camera trick, a real post-production trickery, but less.

01:00:11.000 --> 01:00:17.000
So I think more. just spectacle. Okay, lovely Well, I think we'll have to wrap it up there.

01:00:17.000 --> 01:00:27.000
That was absolutely fabulous.

00:00:07.000 --> 00:00:12.000
Thank you very much. I hope everyone can hear me. Okay?

00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:17.000
Yes, fungi, and the role they play in the planets ecology.

00:00:17.000 --> 00:00:30.000
It's a huge topic and obviously in the a little under an hour. we won't be able to cover all of that ground, but we will look at some fungi and explain a little bit about their ecology.

00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:38.000
How they work, and the role they play in nature firstly what's in a name.

00:00:38.000 --> 00:00:41.000
So you know it may call fungi mushrooms, or you may call them toadstools.

00:00:41.000 --> 00:00:47.000
To be honest, there is absolutely no difference between the word mushroom and toadstool.

00:00:47.000 --> 00:00:58.000
Some people use word toast to to describe something that's poisonous, and and the word mushroom to describe something that is, it is edible.

00:00:58.000 --> 00:01:13.000
But actually they're both fungi and the names come from many different cultures In Britain, we have about 20,000 species of fungi.

00:01:13.000 --> 00:01:30.000
That may seem a lot if you're out in the woods in autumn time or early wintertime. you're probably only ever likely to see at a maximum about 3,000. and these are the larger fungi many fungi are

00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:34.000
so small that we can't see them so if you're walking through the woods.

00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:37.000
You're likely to come across a toadstool a mushroom.

00:01:37.000 --> 00:01:44.000
But there's lots of other fungi doing very critical roles in the woodland ecosystem and worldwide.

00:01:44.000 --> 00:01:55.000
There are about 200,000 species, though that number is continuing to increase year on year, as more fungi are discovered.

00:01:55.000 --> 00:02:08.000
Nowadays the use of DNA analysis is used. and that is helping to establish relationships with fungi and work out which species of which they're not easy to identify.

00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:15.000
So there's a warning There This is a difficult area even for more experienced ecologists.

00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:22.000
Before we start on our woodland survey i'm looking at woodland fungi.

00:02:22.000 --> 00:02:32.000
Let's just think a little about fungi in our lives We probably don't realize what fungi I pray a major part in our in our lives, and particularly with medicines.

00:02:32.000 --> 00:02:38.000
They produce some important medicines, cheese, bread, and beer.

00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:53.000
All use Fungi of times turned to help with their manufacturer, and of course, in Britain not many of us go out on for fungi forests but abroad.

00:02:53.000 --> 00:03:03.000
This photographer talkings in Finland. You can see here that fungi are for sale in the market, and a lot of people, particularly in Europe.

00:03:03.000 --> 00:03:21.000
But around the world go out, and forage for fungi in the autumn, and and actively the so they've been used by humans for thousands of years, and today there's still an active interest in going out and looking for

00:03:21.000 --> 00:03:33.000
mushrooms to eat and enjoy. Fungi also play a role all in the light of the Marshall.

00:03:33.000 --> 00:03:41.000
Kit has got a link with fungi. the spores that are produced.

00:03:41.000 --> 00:03:47.000
Sorry. The seeds that are produced are very tiny indeed from the orchid.

00:03:47.000 --> 00:03:57.000
So when they land on the ground, they do need the fungus to work with them in a what is called a symbiotic relationship.

00:03:57.000 --> 00:04:05.000
Now what is a fungi Well, let's look above and below ground!

00:04:05.000 --> 00:04:20.000
So here we can see the very familiar cap and stalk of a fungi, and then below ground the mycelium, or the structures like cotton wall that are the real body of the fungus.

00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:26.000
Cap itself. The mushroom, if you like, is just the fruit is in body.

00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:35.000
The mind of the fungus is below ground that's comprised of very fine threads, called mycelium.

00:04:35.000 --> 00:04:52.000
So the body of the fungus is made up of high fee, which then joined together, tangled together called a mycelium, and these, as I say, a very fine threads indeed, and they're very hard to see with the naked

00:04:52.000 --> 00:05:04.000
eye. But if you go into a woodland and you scrape aside the leaf litter, sometimes you can see this white ghostly outline in the soil, no fungi.

00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:14.000
It's just been well very recently discovered also link trees together.

00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:27.000
That may sound fairly fantastic, but one tree is linked to another tree in a woodland or a forest by the fungi mycelium, and they that way trees can actually communicate with each other.

00:05:27.000 --> 00:05:31.000
Could say talk to each other, but that's taking it a bit far.

00:05:31.000 --> 00:05:51.000
What happens is the roots of the tree are either in contact with the fungi on the outside, or in some cases the fungi actually is living on the inside of the roots, and that forms what has been recently called the wood wide web connecting all

00:05:51.000 --> 00:06:15.000
the trees together across a woodland you can often see in a woodland, particularly if you walk in there in the autumn time the large black bootlace-like structures of things called root rider moths. you particularly get these on the fungus.

00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:23.000
That many of you may have heard of the honey fungus, and this was discovered.

00:06:23.000 --> 00:06:29.000
Here we go here's the photograph of the the rhizomorph actually actively decaying the tree there.

00:06:29.000 --> 00:06:37.000
Now, fungi do not produce a food on their own so they're unlike plants.

00:06:37.000 --> 00:06:44.000
They can't photosynthesize so food depends on them getting food from other sources.

00:06:44.000 --> 00:07:04.000
So they break down dead or rotten wood or dead animals That's all that some of the food is produced, or they can feed directly of living parts of the plants, in which case the actors parasites and a third group is

00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:11.000
this those associated with this microarizal association in the roots.

00:07:11.000 --> 00:07:27.000
How do they reproduce that's a complicated story which we don't have time to go into tonight, but the main thing you need to know is that spores are involved and spores are very small.

00:07:27.000 --> 00:07:43.000
They're mostly microscopic and I hope you can see from the illustration here that they come in different shapes and sizes, but pretty small here on the right. we have fungi actually discharge in the

00:07:43.000 --> 00:07:54.000
spores. This is a type of puffball, and you can see here, caught in the light, the spores floating in the air, and many thousands of spores will be produced

00:07:54.000 --> 00:08:05.000
And this one is puffing them up into the air so they will catch the air currents and float the through the forest over and travel many, many miles.

00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:13.000
They're dependent on landing on just the right Peter ground with just the right sort of chemistry moisture for them to.

00:08:13.000 --> 00:08:21.000
Then turn into another fungi. Each fungi produces millions, if not trillions, of spores in its lifetime.

00:08:21.000 --> 00:08:30.000
The colour of spores can be quite important as well when you're trying to work out what species of fungi you've got.

00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:37.000
So here we've got a print a spore print these are very easy to do, and good fun to do.

00:08:37.000 --> 00:08:40.000
So what did you do? Is you just take the cap of the fungi.

00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:50.000
You take off the the stem below it, and you place it on a piece of white paper, then leave it for a few hours, and when you come back, lift the cap up.

00:08:50.000 --> 00:09:06.000
Then you can clearly see the small pattern what's more important though, is, you can see the spore color small color is a one of the ways you can help identify a plant and that's a fungus and that's one of the first

00:09:06.000 --> 00:09:11.000
steps you can often say the spore color are surrounding the fungus.

00:09:11.000 --> 00:09:29.000
In some in some cases. Okay, we're, getting, too, technical there are 2 main groups of fungi that you're likely to be able to see in a woodland situation, and these are the so called Basidio my seats and asco

00:09:29.000 --> 00:09:33.000
my seats the that's a Major Division in the fungi kingdom.

00:09:33.000 --> 00:09:52.000
So with Basidio. My seats, What! you have the stalk and the gills underneath the underneath the cap a close stuff of that shows you the gills attached to those gills.

00:09:52.000 --> 00:09:57.000
Are these structures called basidium. The whole thing is made up of high feet.

00:09:57.000 --> 00:10:04.000
These have all joined together to produce the fungus, which is the fruit in body.

00:10:04.000 --> 00:10:25.000
And what happens is the spores are literally shot from these peridium at a very quick rate, and then they drift down between the gills, catch the air current, and are launched on their journey where they end up no one knows it's

00:10:25.000 --> 00:10:31.000
a huge chance that they end up somewhere there will they won't turn into another fund eye.

00:10:31.000 --> 00:10:43.000
So here are some common guild fungi that you're likely to come across fungi Color is quite interesting.

00:10:43.000 --> 00:10:54.000
No one quite knows why these toad stools or mushrooms are quite brightly colored, that doesn't seem to be any particular reason for that.

00:10:54.000 --> 00:11:03.000
But that you'll find a wide range of colors with them. So here we've got the tawny funnel, Bill, or funnel cap.

00:11:03.000 --> 00:11:15.000
You can see here the gills are those things under the cap of the A total that run right down to the stork stem.

00:11:15.000 --> 00:11:26.000
The spores will be produced from this area. Another thing that makes fungi interesting is the fact that as they you develop, they change shape.

00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:40.000
So you can see here you got round headed toadstools and young ones there, and by the time they start to age they change shape pretty often, so they can be quite difficult.

00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:51.000
They're not like a plant which keeps its shape as it grows here's another example of a guild fungi.

00:11:51.000 --> 00:12:03.000
So here, great against an oak tree is the oak milk, bug or milk gap bug milk cap.

00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:12.000
That's its scientific name lac terrace Cosineus. the Cassinus refers to the oak tree.

00:12:12.000 --> 00:12:16.000
And this is one of those fungus that we talk about.

00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:27.000
A little bit later that produce a white milky substance. But this may be some sort of deterrent for slugs or other predators trying to eat the fungi.

00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:38.000
So if you bite into this, you get a mouthful of sort of sappy liquid, not very pleasant tasting, so that may be a defense.

00:12:38.000 --> 00:12:48.000
It only occurs if the cap is is damaged, and that only occurs moist or damp weather.

00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:55.000
If the fungi dries out, then it is less likely to produce this latex type compound.

00:12:55.000 --> 00:13:03.000
So what we've seen so far are those gills that run from the stipe to the outside.

00:13:03.000 --> 00:13:09.000
But not all Basidio. My seats have this sort of structure.

00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:16.000
Here we got an example of what is called a bleetus, and instead of gills here we've got paws.

00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:20.000
So the mechanism is exactly the same as in the Guild Fung.

00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:23.000
But I but the outlet there is a is a round poor.

00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:34.000
So from the structures. Now you drift onto the air, Ralph, strangely.

00:13:34.000 --> 00:13:40.000
Sometimes you get these sort of fungi which are on they don't have pause.

00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:52.000
They don't have guilty they're sometimes called hedgehog fungi. and these are the have spines rather than these are tend to be relatively uncommon.

00:13:52.000 --> 00:14:00.000
Mushrooms. You can see this phone. The Tiered Fung Fungal.

00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:11.000
Here is actually growing on a stump of a tree You'll find Funga in many places growing on the soil, growing on dead wood, growing on living woods.

00:14:11.000 --> 00:14:18.000
A wide range of of places. They will grow in woodland in grasslands as well.

00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:23.000
You'll get to fungi most of them appear in the autumn time.

00:14:23.000 --> 00:14:28.000
But there are fungi, or mushrooms that appear at this time of year in spring.

00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:36.000
Quite often you'll find fungi as brackets on trees.

00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:51.000
So this one is turned over. this is the underside and you can see here that it's it's been broken off of the tree. and again, you've got a series of sort of pause that They spoils who come from they're

00:14:51.000 --> 00:14:57.000
grown on an oak tree. Sorry on a beach tree.

00:14:57.000 --> 00:15:13.000
You got these rather large, splendid brackets this is quite a common bracket fungi that you'll find on beach trees, and as you can see here, there's sort of a brown coloration to the top of these ones

00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:18.000
here. That's where the spores have landed on the top of that.

00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:24.000
And, in fact, if you look lower down, you can see this sort of spore dust right over the face of the tree.

00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:35.000
There now, unlike a toadstool, but comes up, opens up, releases its spores, and then long eyes quickly or relatively.

00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:39.000
Quickly. These can last for a year, or 2 or 3 or more.

00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:46.000
These are sort of permanent structures on the tree the tree isn't going to be very healthy.

00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:50.000
This is one of those fungal I don't actually rot in the tree down and killing it.

00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:57.000
But they will last for for a very long. time. and as I say that they're relatively common.

00:15:57.000 --> 00:16:09.000
So the the bracket fungi sometimes called artists bracket, because if you turn them over, break them off the tree and turn them over. you can actually make patterns in the spore layer below in this white small layer

00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:26.000
here, so that's a basidio my seats we now come on to the second group, which are the asco my seats, and instead of having gills or paws or spines, here, we've got a cupped

00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:37.000
fungi here, and these little structures are embedded in the top of the fungus, and they shoot out spores from these strong structures, called as sky.

00:16:37.000 --> 00:16:49.000
So the short sport is literally shot up into the atmosphere, where it shoots above the fungus, and then catches the breeze and moves on like other links.

00:16:49.000 --> 00:16:54.000
You can see here, the hold of the fungi is made up of mycelium.

00:16:54.000 --> 00:17:03.000
All bound together. a really common example, sometimes called Scarlet Elf Cap.

00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:07.000
This one will be shooting its scores into the atmosphere.

00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:13.000
Very pretty this, so, as I say, the color a fungo.

00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:22.000
No one really understands whether that pays plays a role or not that doesn't seem to be any particular reason why this is bright red.

00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:28.000
It doesn't have a function as far as we can tell but who knows?

00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:38.000
And as for color, this one has got to be one of the brightest and most stunning fungi to find this is for all in a crust, on the on a twig.

00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:53.000
Here on the hazel twig it's called cobalt crust, and that's not a doctored picture that is actually the color you find I've only found this 2 or 3 times in the last 10 years or so But

00:17:53.000 --> 00:18:09.000
when you find it You're always amazed but the bright coloration. other structures in the of these fungal. Here we've got something called Salaria Polymorpha.

00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:19.000
Its English name is dead man's fingers and they literally look in some cases like dead fingers coming out of a tree rotting away.

00:18:19.000 --> 00:18:30.000
There's also a closely related dead moles. fingers and this is the group that also contains the the quite common fungus that's called candle snuff.

00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:43.000
So these of will appear in autumn time we'll last for much of the winter, but then break breakaway break down a and be gone by springtime.

00:18:43.000 --> 00:18:56.000
But let's go back to our fungus so here we have the typical layout of a fungi.

00:18:56.000 --> 00:19:03.000
You don't have to learn many fancy words to understand fungi.

00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:10.000
So the cap which most people would would be well aware of as the name on top of that.

00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:23.000
Sometimes you get scales These stick to the top of the cap, and which can be sticky and slimy where they're coming from is when the fungus is young.

00:19:23.000 --> 00:19:28.000
It's it's a completely encased in a bag and as it expands.

00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:43.000
They don't grow they expand through water pressure that bag ruptures, and the bits they are stuck on this cap of the the scales are stuck on the top of that cap.

00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:50.000
And then, as you can see here, as i've already described there are either gills or in this example.

00:19:50.000 --> 00:20:00.000
Here we've got pause. as well so the color of the cap is a very important feature that you look for when trying to identify fungi.

00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:08.000
But beware! After a rainstorm some of the colors can actually be washed out, and they can change color.

00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:15.000
Another very common feature, but certainly not found on on all mushrooms or toadstores, is is a ring.

00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:21.000
This ring was once attached to the base of the cat of the Cap.

00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:30.000
Here protecting the gales or the pores as it grew up, and the remnants of that is an important feature that you have to look for.

00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:42.000
And then there's a stalk or the stipe. then at the bottom you may have some scales, and then, as I say, there's this bag called a revolver base. there.

00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:47.000
So those are the basic parts of a mushroom or a toad store.

00:20:47.000 --> 00:21:03.000
Each one of those can vary quite considerably so books will give you a range of illustrations of the type of tap. You've got all that shape of the stipe or whether they're rooting that's

00:21:03.000 --> 00:21:09.000
not rooting in the sense we understand it from plants, or whether the thing called riseoids under the soul.

00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:14.000
When you collect a sample you have to go beneath the soil.

00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:22.000
Just gently lift it up with a knife blade and and look at the entire structure of the other of the function.

00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:34.000
I. and then the cap below that are these rings so here you've got various types of ring, some in a very complicated group.

00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:50.000
You find there's a cobwebby type appearance, and that's critical to look for that cobweb can be bright, purple, or various different colors. and the gills themselves can be either sort of distantly

00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:54.000
spaced. They can be closely spaced. they can be crowded.

00:21:54.000 --> 00:22:00.000
They can go from one side to but other cap to the centre, or they can break halfway.

00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:08.000
So you have to observe these issues. And then the other thing to look for is how the gills actually connect to the stipe.

00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:14.000
And this is a question who quite often asked other girls free, or are they d current?

00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:23.000
For example, the current means so flowing down the stem cats of course, don't just come in round shapes.

00:22:23.000 --> 00:22:28.000
They come in a wide range of structures. so you get conical ones and bell-shaped ones.

00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:34.000
This one is. There is sort of a depressed in the in the center.

00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:40.000
Deeply, deeply depressed in the center. Sometimes I have a little bump on the top.

00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:50.000
Go to umbrella so it's quite a wide range of these, and don't forget there's about 3,000 species to look at.

00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:59.000
Not all will occur in all Woodlands You'll get special ones that go in Scotland or Wales, or Southern England.

00:22:59.000 --> 00:23:06.000
So one of the most commonly asked questions have but i'm leading a walk is, Can I eat it?

00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:28.000
Well, you can eat any fungi once someone won't told me. but you, if you did at this one, which is the the really deadly one, the death cap you even under modern medicines, you would not survive probably so if you do decide to

00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:34.000
go out foraging it. you must know what you're looking at, and what you're picking before you cook or eat it.

00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:40.000
It's really good practice is to be absolutely sure and if in doubt.

00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:48.000
Don't eat it. Ask an expert or go out on an organized fungus foray or meeting.

00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:57.000
So the death cap looks greenish on top here. You can see this ring, which is an important feature.

00:23:57.000 --> 00:24:05.000
You've got the gills you've got the remains of the bag here, so any fungi with those features?

00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:14.000
A bag, a ring, a colored cap they're likely to be ones that do you no good at all.

00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:27.000
This is one of very few deadly ones there's a few that will get kill people, and there are lots that will make you ill, and there are plenty that are really good to eat.

00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:40.000
So if you fill, on this one well here, we got the remains of the vale on the cap there these scales, but it's got a back, and it's got what's going to be a ring I've cut this

00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:46.000
in half to look at the fundra. So this is another one of that group, the Amanitas.

00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:50.000
So am Anita Floyd is is the death cap.

00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:55.000
This one here is is less less risky but it won't taste.

00:24:55.000 --> 00:25:04.000
Very nice fungi formed these amazing relationships with trees.

00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:11.000
So here we've got some of the examples that form This micrizer relationship with an oak tree.

00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:20.000
Oak trees are amazing. They have relationships with lots of insects, but with fungi in particular.

00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:38.000
You can see here that I brought me into 2 groups the the so-called milk caps and the rushler. go on to explain a little bit about those at the moment, and each tree can have a fungus that is associated

00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:43.000
with it. A really good example is the bright red fungi that you get.

00:25:43.000 --> 00:25:52.000
That is all in any blightened type books blier Garrick, and that's got an association with birch trees.

00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:59.000
But these ones here have got an association, and are only ever found in association with oak trees.

00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:13.000
So there is a large family called the Russia Lacy, and that contains 2 big genera like Terrace and Rachela, and in Europe there are about 160 species.

00:26:13.000 --> 00:26:28.000
This is quite a challenging group. we've lots of different species being found in Britain as well.

00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:35.000
Both of these, both general, are characterized by the brittle flesh and and the pale colored spores.

00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:40.000
So if you did a spore print on white paper you wouldn't see anything.

00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:45.000
So using this one, you would use a bit of colored paper, and then that would allow you to see it.

00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:53.000
See the color of the sports, which would be very pale indeed, we've come across this the oak milk bug.

00:26:53.000 --> 00:27:02.000
This is the one that produces the milk, so it belongs to a family called lacteria, which means the reducing milk.

00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:10.000
I lactate in the again. This one, as I say, is connected exclusively with with oak trees.

00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:22.000
If you break the gill, or then it will produce this fluid, this white fluid, So that's one very big family.

00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:29.000
The lact areas. Another very big and very common family is the rustler.

00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:34.000
The thing about Russellers is mostly they're all very bright colors.

00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:49.000
You can see this lovely, shiny yellow color here but rushler actually means red reddish, and many of them are of these brittle caps, as they're commonly called, have red cats.

00:27:49.000 --> 00:27:53.000
But they do come in a range of colors as well.

00:27:53.000 --> 00:28:03.000
So the gills here are very brittle. You just run your thumb over them, and they will break easily and crumble.

00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:11.000
So. this one, I think, is a is called a beachwood.

00:28:11.000 --> 00:28:21.000
Second You can see here. it's not quite perfect you hardly ever find a perfect fungi, because slugs and snails love them.

00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:30.000
Even the deadly poisonous ones, or deadly poisonous to humans. Slugs and snails will be eating them.

00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:36.000
You can see here that it's taken something's taken out a bite out of the cap there, and the stipe.

00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:49.000
Here is very characteristically eaten away. So, apart from the color, the other thing you have to look for is all detect is the smell.

00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:54.000
And many of these fungi, many of the rationalists.

00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:57.000
The brittle caps have a very distinctive smell.

00:28:57.000 --> 00:29:11.000
This one beach would sickener. is said to smell of pineapple, but others, for example, smell of crab meat, or Sam or Crabs smell is not a characteristic.

00:29:11.000 --> 00:29:17.000
That everyone I identifies and recognizes each one smell slightly different treatment.

00:29:17.000 --> 00:29:22.000
There's even one that's supposed to smell a bed bugs.

00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:35.000
Now, of course, many of us today do not know what bed bugs smell like, but it's a name that's come down, or I know the tip has come down through the ages, so that's the milk caps the

00:29:35.000 --> 00:29:40.000
milk, producing muns and the the brittle caps.

00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:53.000
And then another big group are the bleeders and this has got some really interesting fungi in there in that group some of the best edible ones, for example.

00:29:53.000 --> 00:29:58.000
So here we've got the pores where the spores come from

00:29:58.000 --> 00:30:12.000
This is one of the best edible fungi you can get the sep, or sometimes called the penny bun bleetus, edgeless, really large fungi.

00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:26.000
These are probably 4 or 5 inches in height and This group here was collected specifically for the purposes of eating, so they've only collected the very very nicest ones there.

00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:36.000
You take them home, you wash them off, obviously cut them in half. slice them up, cook them a butter, or bake, and not on the other, and they're very nice.

00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:41.000
Throw away any slug eaten months, you don't want to be tempted to be eating those.

00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:51.000
So that is the sep. with a penny bum now i've shown this on grass, but actually it's a woodland woodland spaces.

00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:58.000
So here's another 2 types of belita's actually going in a woodland or a woodland edge.

00:30:58.000 --> 00:31:11.000
Here. they've got these very characteristic broad almost thick stipes or stems, and the caps are different.

00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:15.000
So there are 2 different species here. This cap surface is dry, as you can see.

00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:32.000
This is a birch bleat, and this cap species Here is sticky, and that's a feature that you quite often have to look for another really interesting point about this bolitas group is this bleitis error throws here.

00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:43.000
You can see my thumb print. So what happens is when you press your thumb or you touch it, and you somehow break the the surface of the fungal.

00:31:43.000 --> 00:31:54.000
It will go undergo a very dramatic color change as you can see here, it's a blushing bright blue hill, a wonderful color of blue.

00:31:54.000 --> 00:32:02.000
It's even better if you cut It in half and this chemical reaction happens almost instantaneously.

00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:05.000
This is an extract from one of the the fungi books.

00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:17.000
There are multiple books one can look by and look at. and you can see here that this color change is one of the characteristics things that people look for.

00:32:17.000 --> 00:32:25.000
This bleatus that's not in the bleatus genus.

00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:41.000
It's good solius, but it it's a large it grows on large trees, large Isn't. a native tree in the British Isles, but presumably when the impacted large, they accidentally imported some of the fungi that

00:32:41.000 --> 00:32:48.000
associated with it as well, and you can see here it's slightly bruising reddish color.

00:32:48.000 --> 00:33:05.000
But when when it rains the top of this large bleat that goes very sticky, slimy, rather horrible to the touch, and that's another feature that one would look look for, and and these are these are attractive, little

00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:11.000
things. Most of these bleeds is quite big actually they're 3 or 4 inches in height, and quite thick sight.

00:33:11.000 --> 00:33:16.000
So here the feature to look for is the the color of the cap.

00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:24.000
Any structures or patterns on the stipe and you can see here, it's sort of a scaly structure.

00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:31.000
There other funga that formed these microorizal relationships.

00:33:31.000 --> 00:33:37.000
Are these tooth fungi? these are these are quite uncommon.

00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:45.000
So this isn't my photograph that's taken off the Internet from a reliable source there called Archive.

00:33:45.000 --> 00:34:04.000
You find these occasionally. So the the spores come from the sort of structures, and, as I say, they're sometimes called hog fungi. so these will have this relationship with a particular type of tree not found on any other tree so when you're walking through the

00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:07.000
woods you see an oak tree or a large tree.

00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:10.000
Then you look under the under that tree, and that helps you track down.

00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:17.000
The tried to work out the particular type of fungi you got.

00:34:17.000 --> 00:34:24.000
Not all fungi are friendly, not all are useful.

00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:37.000
And not all are are native. So this thing that you quite often find in autumn time called a white maoju oak maldew.

00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:46.000
And it was accidentally, I assume, first found in England in 1,908, and it comes from the United States of America.

00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:55.000
So again. that must have been imported by mistake it doesn't kill the tree, but it does weaken the tree.

00:34:55.000 --> 00:35:10.000
Somewhat big row of fungi, particularly in woodlands as as recycling, recycling the dead and other organic matter. We walk through a woodland at the moment, you like you'd find a carpet of

00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:23.000
bluebells below that you'll find a huge number of last year's fallen leaves, all of those are being broken down by fungi in the ground.

00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:31.000
It's also breaking down the dead wood the dit carcasses of dead animals.

00:35:31.000 --> 00:35:36.000
And of course this is all recycling the nutrients back into the the soil.

00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:48.000
So the the onward grown-up of o other work continues so here, the poor old dead badger there.

00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:54.000
But he's been recycled back into the into the woodland soil.

00:35:54.000 --> 00:36:14.000
There they play a very important part in breaking down timber, broken trees, fallen woods, rotting them away, and because they do that, then they pay a very important part in the lives of many invertebrates insects that actually live on the on the

00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:24.000
rotten wood themselves a very complex relationship in many. In many cases these are ink caps and breaking down the trees.

00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:35.000
There are 2 species here as the fairy ink cap which grows. that's quite small. but they grow by the 1,000, as you can see colonizing this fallen tree here.

00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:44.000
Another species here now in caps, are very interesting mechanism, by which they disperse their spores, instead of them floating on the air.

00:36:44.000 --> 00:36:53.000
The whole cap and girls tend to melts down into a sticky black fluid.

00:36:53.000 --> 00:36:59.000
Hence the name ink cap, and then there strips onto the floor of the woodlands.

00:36:59.000 --> 00:37:03.000
But both of these are decomposing the tree.

00:37:03.000 --> 00:37:07.000
In this case. Here we've got something called a pizza.

00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:18.000
There are numbers of these, but so just can't identify exactly to the species, and this is breaking down this wood chip.

00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:30.000
I found this at the side of the road, where someone looked kindly, dumped the rubbish, and through the through the 3 or 4 months that this was a breaking down 4 or 5 different fungi I came along and out break

00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:50.000
down these wood chips. They play a critical role in in woodlands, and if you find a really nice old tree, maybe an oak tree that could be 6 or 700 years old, and fungi will be paying a major role in the

00:37:50.000 --> 00:38:00.000
ecology of that tree, some positive, if it got a micrise or relationship, some negative if it's starting to break down the dead wood.

00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:04.000
In fact, fungi can actually hollow out the center of an oak tree.

00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:13.000
And one of the species that does that is this so-called beef, steak, fungus, and And this is one of the few fungi that can actually rot away.

00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:20.000
The heartwood of oaks could be because of the color of the other cap.

00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:28.000
All the color of the fungi generally. If you cut into this, it does actually drip a red liquid which looks a little bit like what you get.

00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:38.000
If you cut over a state and some fungi are parasites. So this means that they're not helping the tree at all.

00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:46.000
They're attacking the tree, and They will eventually kill the tree and probably the best example of this.

00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:52.000
The one that gardens hate to hear the word of is the honey fungus.

00:38:52.000 --> 00:39:09.000
So this is the honey fungus. There are 3 or 4 different types of honey fungus, but they all got a They smell a bit like sweet a bit like a honey smell.

00:39:09.000 --> 00:39:22.000
They have a ring that's one of the features they tend to grow upwards so sort of form a sort of dish on top.

00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:32.000
There they're always together, always trooping together. so some fungi grow independently in ones or twos and other fungus.

00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:46.000
Will go in in large groups, so this one is a parasite and honey fungus. if you if you get it in trees in your garden it's pretty bad news in most cases i'm afraid it will slowly kill many

00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:52.000
trees. The old joke is, if you want to get rid of honey Fungus in your garden is to move house.

00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:58.000
But there are other fungus parasitic as well.

00:39:58.000 --> 00:40:03.000
Killing trees, this one that's rather attractive or chicken of the woods.

00:40:03.000 --> 00:40:14.000
Here. we got it on an oak tree, and here from above. this is actually one of those ones that people like to eat as well, occurring in early early autumn time.

00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:21.000
And this is this is bad news, as a tree will slowly kill the tree.

00:40:21.000 --> 00:40:26.000
Birch trees are prone to a fungus as well.

00:40:26.000 --> 00:40:37.000
Birch trees live a relatively short period of time. They normally only live something like 80 years at the most, and they quite often are attacked by this.

00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:42.000
The so-called birch polypore, very common fungus.

00:40:42.000 --> 00:40:49.000
In the old days, when men use cutthroat raises, This is what they would drop their razor on the top of this Fung.

00:40:49.000 --> 00:40:58.000
Really lovely fungus growing on Beach. here it's called the Porcelain fungus, and the top of this is really sticky and gooey.

00:40:58.000 --> 00:41:05.000
So if you touch of it you'll get a thread of gooey liquid coming out, and it's got a characteristic ring on it as well.

00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:11.000
Once a tree is dead, then other fungus start to rot it away.

00:41:11.000 --> 00:41:20.000
Very common is so called king alfred's cakes or cramp bulls would legend as you put it in your pocket.

00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:25.000
Then you'd never get cramped you will get a black pocket, because it produces a black spores.

00:41:25.000 --> 00:41:28.000
Don't know where that comes from don't understand that at all right.

00:41:28.000 --> 00:41:38.000
This strange looking thing. it's called black bulgar and again. It's rotting down the tree, really really common one, is.

00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:52.000
It's got the new. the English name turkey tail and if you look at this, you can with with the eye of face, see what that looks like tale of a turkey growing on the ground.

00:41:52.000 --> 00:42:10.000
We've got jelly babies very small 2 or 3 inches in height, not very common actually, but growing underground mostly on the beach trees, and coming to the end of the talk.

00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:20.000
Now one of the fungi that it's It's easy to find, because it smells so bad is Cisco called stinkhorn.

00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:37.000
This is the same fungi. It starts as an egg type structure just under the soil, then expands into this strange structure here with a black, smelly, very smelly substance on the top.

00:42:37.000 --> 00:42:47.000
Here, and that, as she can see, attracts flies and in this case, ants and the ants and the flies will have the stores stuck to their feet or parts of the body.

00:42:47.000 --> 00:42:53.000
And that's how that distributes its spores if you want to learn more.

00:42:53.000 --> 00:43:01.000
The thing to do is to join a local group, the National Trust, The Wildlife Trusts, and others have fungus forays.

00:43:01.000 --> 00:43:20.000
They are great fun, and they're they usually attract quite a few people along to them, and get the advice from experts as to what fungi you found, and the critical point about whether they're edible or not this fellow here is a

00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:27.000
102 now, and still going strong. So going up for fungi is obviously good for you as well.

00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:45.000
There are multiple books you can buy and I would recommend Miss Collins Complete Guide to British mushrooms and toadstores, and that with that you stand a good chance of being able to identify many of the fungus you'll

00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:53.000
find in the autumn time. So with that I thank you for listening, and I'll hand back from Fiona for any questions.

00:43:53.000 --> 00:43:57.000
Thanks very much for that, Stephen. that was creek fascinating.

00:43:57.000 --> 00:44:03.000
I love the dead man's fingers by the way I like those and stop sharing, and we'll we'll go into some questions.

00:44:03.000 --> 00:44:11.000
We've got quite a few for you so let me start near the top.

00:44:11.000 --> 00:44:20.000
Now question from Brian. You were talking just lateral there about parasites, parasite fungi.

00:44:20.000 --> 00:44:32.000
Yes, and this is a question from Brian, and maybe you can expand a little bit on that is parasite, a fair label these days giving. Given that the end of dependent relationship with trees.

00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:39.000
And this communication rule that you said to play this with white web that you've referred to.

00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:47.000
Yes, so So something I can believe broken into 3 groups, those ones that are mutually working with each other.

00:44:47.000 --> 00:44:52.000
This might realize a relationship you've got those ones that are roughing down dead trees.

00:44:52.000 --> 00:45:00.000
And then you've got this third group the parasitic group which are breaking their attacking and actively killing the tree.

00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:06.000
So I think the term parasite is probably still applicable to that that group of fungi.

00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:10.000
Okay, brilliant. Thank you. Hope that answers your question.

00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:26.000
But I and kind of related to that. There was a question that came in just a couple of minutes ago, actually, and from Elizabeth. which kind of relates to this we were, she's saying we're planting many trees now for co 2

00:45:26.000 --> 00:45:32.000
absorption. Yes, yeah. Do we need to be thinking about inoculously trees?

00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:42.000
Oh, that is a really good question, a really good question in an ancient woodland, the woodland that's been there for a long time.

00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:45.000
The fungi will be in the soil and and there pay it.

00:45:45.000 --> 00:45:57.000
It will play a critical part in in the trees growth. Now, I know gardeners nowadays have started using mycelium to help trees and other plants grow.

00:45:57.000 --> 00:46:06.000
It really depends on where your plants in the trees and whether there's been woodland close by, or whatever in the past.

00:46:06.000 --> 00:46:12.000
It's not something i've ever heard people say about when they're planting numbers of trees.

00:46:12.000 --> 00:46:19.000
But it certainly would be beneficial in some cases. Okay, and check interesting questions.

00:46:19.000 --> 00:46:37.000
Okay, question here from Judith and she's asking are the flat, gray kind of rosette type things that you see appealing on Garden pass. Are they fungi, or they something else know that where they are a fungi their

00:46:37.000 --> 00:46:43.000
lichens, and what I couldn't include was with the part of the story about lichens.

00:46:43.000 --> 00:46:57.000
So lichens are quite complicated. organisms there are a mixture of a fungi and an algae, and it's even thought nowadays that there are other components to them as well so like can you quite often.

00:46:57.000 --> 00:47:01.000
See on trees, Ruth tops if you look a chimney of your neighbor's house.

00:47:01.000 --> 00:47:15.000
You're quite often see yellow staining around that and that's a lichen, and on the footpath you get something that people sometimes called the chewing gum lichen cause it looks like chewing gum

00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:23.000
that's been trodden into the pavement and that's a lichen, as I say that's a that is a fun, guy, but it's working with others.

00:47:23.000 --> 00:47:28.000
There are some fantastic lichens and there that's a talk in its own right?

00:47:28.000 --> 00:47:36.000
Yeah, interesting I didn't know that one okay question from Elizabeth.

00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:39.000
Is there a fungal equivalent of a seatbank?

00:47:39.000 --> 00:47:49.000
Do you mean in the ground, or do you mean as taken into entirely? sure?

00:47:49.000 --> 00:47:53.000
Maybe, Elizabeth, you can tell us we can maybe come back to that one.

00:47:53.000 --> 00:48:01.000
Okay? Well, our answer in 2 ways. Firstly, obviously, Funga, are some of the longest-lived organisms on the planet.

00:48:01.000 --> 00:48:10.000
And some of the biggest organisms on the planet, so that they're mycelium stretch for hundreds maybe, and thousands of miles.

00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:15.000
In in some cases. So there does not seed bank as such.

00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:20.000
The mycelium are there for for a long time.

00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:30.000
Once a once a spore lands on the ground it doesn't have very long to germinate and turn into a mycelium. so it won't be there long lasting.

00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:41.000
Now, if you mean, is there a sea bank like they have a queue where they take plants into control conditions to store them for the future?

00:48:41.000 --> 00:48:48.000
I don't think there is but I may be wrong on that interesting Thank you, Stephen.

00:48:48.000 --> 00:48:55.000
Question from Sue you were talking about, you know, fungi being eaten by insects.

00:48:55.000 --> 00:49:05.000
Yes, are they eaten by birds or other animals so presumably mammals? They're certainly eaten by mammals.

00:49:05.000 --> 00:49:13.000
Badges, dear, will take fungi scrolls I think will take fungi.

00:49:13.000 --> 00:49:24.000
I'm not sure about birds I i've not come across any evidence, particularly in this country of birds eating fungi. it's not something I've ever seen either.

00:49:24.000 --> 00:49:37.000
It's not something node it would happen very often So no, I I don't think they're eaten by birth, but they certainly are eaten by a wide range of mammals including ourselves. across okay.

00:49:37.000 --> 00:49:45.000
She also asked another question, which was now this is a film that I don't know, will have to say but she's asking, What do you think about the film?

00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:53.000
Intelligent trees. I don't know if that's one I've not seen it. So I don't know I'm afraid no no problem.

00:49:53.000 --> 00:50:04.000
Okay, right? Next question. this is question from an yeah, my old fun guy, protected by law, are people are like to peck them.

00:50:04.000 --> 00:50:10.000
We do. but oh, well, another good question actually.

00:50:10.000 --> 00:50:13.000
So there are some fungo that are protected by law.

00:50:13.000 --> 00:50:22.000
They are protected under various parts of the wildlife and countryside, that so it would be illegal to pick them and eat them.

00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:30.000
Or even to hold them to have them in your house under your possession.

00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:34.000
Is it illegal to go foraging for fungi?

00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:52.000
I think the answer is, No, but I there say so. I think because you really should have the landowners permission to go foraging on their lands came across an example on the Quantox, which is a small hill range in somerset.

00:50:52.000 --> 00:50:59.000
Fairly recently, where commercial people had gone out in lard.

00:50:59.000 --> 00:51:10.000
A large van turned up in the car park. Help got about 20 people, and they all went off in different directions and collected every fungi they could find.

00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:23.000
Then, when they got back to the van, someone there who must have known what they were looking for was then sorting them between edible and in edibles, and all the in intervals were discarded, and all the ones that were slightly

00:51:23.000 --> 00:51:37.000
damaged were discarded and this was for we've found out in the end. It was for a large restaurant chain somewhere in London. so they travel quite far, because there's quite a market for wild Fungi.

00:51:37.000 --> 00:51:46.000
Well mushrooms talking to the the landowners, which actually is the the contract ranges, they said.

00:51:46.000 --> 00:51:55.000
It is a problem and that there's no permission given for that natural England have produced guidelines on far foraging.

00:51:55.000 --> 00:52:02.000
So you are allowed to go forward in providing you have the landowners consent, and don't take too much.

00:52:02.000 --> 00:52:08.000
Just take what you need really so that it's a complex reasons.

00:52:08.000 --> 00:52:18.000
But if you're on a site, a special scientific interest and you wouldn't be allowed to collect unless you had a specific collection permission to do so.

00:52:18.000 --> 00:52:23.000
Yeah, Okay, thank you. And I hope that answers your question.

00:52:23.000 --> 00:52:32.000
And okay, question from Kim. If you break off bracket fungi, does it help the health of the horse tree?

00:52:32.000 --> 00:52:43.000
Or will it just regrow from the highway. so the bracket fungi is just like an apple not apple tree, or a goosebury on a gooseby?

00:52:43.000 --> 00:52:48.000
Bush. it's just the fruit if you if you just remove that bracket.

00:52:48.000 --> 00:52:57.000
You're not the fungus is still inside of the tree, so it does nothing to stop the fungus at all.

00:52:57.000 --> 00:53:12.000
Really okay? no. here's, an interesting one from Madeline. She was once in a supermarket in Belgium, and so small, stringy little mushrooms on sale where the caps were glowing

00:53:12.000 --> 00:53:16.000
purple and the artificial light from a neon tube.

00:53:16.000 --> 00:53:26.000
Why would that be note she didn't buy any well it's a very good observation, So top marks for that.

00:53:26.000 --> 00:53:33.000
Some of the chemicals react to ultraviolet light or to different wavelengths of light.

00:53:33.000 --> 00:53:43.000
So they are likely to glow as you say in fact, some fungi actually do glow in the dark.

00:53:43.000 --> 00:53:47.000
They don't beacons are up you can't see them from miles off.

00:53:47.000 --> 00:53:53.000
But if you get quite close in a very dark night, there are fungi even in Britain.

00:53:53.000 --> 00:54:00.000
That glow in the dark very, very faintly. So they do term biolumines.

00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:08.000
In that case. But so in the case of the neon light. then that's some sort of reaction with the chemicals in the in the funders.

00:54:08.000 --> 00:54:18.000
Mom Gap Interesting. Okay, what do we have next question from Philip?

00:54:18.000 --> 00:54:26.000
He's saying, some varieties like cartoons will have flies and saves, unless they're pecked, only do the flies attack.

00:54:26.000 --> 00:54:37.000
Many species means a certain ones that they go for yes, so it's not uncommon to find maggots, which is the the younger flies.

00:54:37.000 --> 00:54:45.000
In mushrooms, and they lay their eggs pretty young when that when the fungus has just expanded.

00:54:45.000 --> 00:54:59.000
So yeah the best thing to do is to if you're picking for the pot is to just squeeze the stite squeeze the stem and see if it's hollow, because if it's hollow there's a good sign

00:54:59.000 --> 00:55:10.000
that the maggots have already got there there are a whole group of flies called Fingers. Thank fungus nats specialize in in eating fungi.

00:55:10.000 --> 00:55:19.000
So there's a very complicated ecology there But yeah flies love them, and you got to get them before the before the flies do.

00:55:19.000 --> 00:55:30.000
Yeah, okay. Now let me see what i've got next right pulled on 1 s.

00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:35.000
Here we go question from Marjorie talking about edible mushrooms here.

00:55:35.000 --> 00:55:40.000
Do they actually provide a range of nutrients which are beneficial to humans?

00:55:40.000 --> 00:55:45.000
Or do we just eat them because we like them. Oh, do they actually do us any good.

00:55:45.000 --> 00:55:51.000
I don't know if that's our question not a question i'm qualified to answer.

00:55:51.000 --> 00:56:03.000
I don't think but I well my guess is that they do provide some vital nutrients there's a wide range of of chemicals in in fungi.

00:56:03.000 --> 00:56:07.000
So that they probably do that, and of course some are hallucinogenic.

00:56:07.000 --> 00:56:16.000
So. so that that creates another effect. Somebody that's asked about yeah, , magic mushrooms.

00:56:16.000 --> 00:56:22.000
Okay, Yeah. yeah. yeah. So so magic mushrooms. They They do produce side effects.

00:56:22.000 --> 00:56:31.000
Apparently, that change your behavior or angel the way you think or feel.

00:56:31.000 --> 00:56:34.000
But lots of mushrooms have have that sort of effect.

00:56:34.000 --> 00:56:41.000
But the flyer garret that the mushroom I ended up with the bright red one with the white spots on.

00:56:41.000 --> 00:56:52.000
That is also has an effect on you so there's a whole chemistry of chemicals in there that can affect your behavior as well.

00:56:52.000 --> 00:57:02.000
Excellent, right? Okay, What else have we got for you Oh, yes, no, we've got from clear? What about truffles?

00:57:02.000 --> 00:57:14.000
Where do they fit In the truffle was a fungi, and, unlike the caps that you see above the ground or the brackets on the tree.

00:57:14.000 --> 00:57:24.000
Then truffles live underground, and they fruit underground, and they do have the fantastic smell and taste.

00:57:24.000 --> 00:57:35.000
We do get some truffles in Britain, but I guess the most famous ones are the Italian truffles, where they get the truffle hounds out to to search them, and the truffle hound

00:57:35.000 --> 00:57:50.000
is there for searching by smell. When it found that smell it will dig it up, and hopefully the the travel hunter will take the truffle away from him before the hound eats it, but they also use

00:57:50.000 --> 00:58:05.000
pigs, and I suspect that the way that the travel actually spreads its spores is by delt release men in very nice the text will dig that up wild ball of dug it up in the woodlands, and and then

00:58:05.000 --> 00:58:13.000
it will pass through the gut of the other pig or the boar and be deposited with somewhere else in the woodlands.

00:58:13.000 --> 00:58:24.000
So yeah, they're fungi they're wonderful tweet, but they occur underground, so they have a specialist mechanism for spreading their sports.

00:58:24.000 --> 00:58:32.000
Interesting right, and we've just got a couple more questions of things I think we're just going to carry on and get get these them.

00:58:32.000 --> 00:58:41.000
And so so, and a question from Andrew, he said, an experience with honey fungus destroying a peer tree.

00:58:41.000 --> 00:58:49.000
And is there any way of getting rid of it, or reducing its effect, except for choosing plants with greater resistance than others?

00:58:49.000 --> 00:58:56.000
And if so, what plants would you recommend that would resist best?

00:58:56.000 --> 00:59:03.000
Yeah again. of one i'm not really qualified to to answer

00:59:03.000 --> 00:59:08.000
I did have honey fungus on one of my trees.

00:59:08.000 --> 00:59:28.000
It it did die, but a part of it lives so I wouldn't automatically cut a tree down unless it becomes unsafe. but it's not something I feel i'm qualified to answer. assume if you go to your garden center they

00:59:28.000 --> 00:59:32.000
will, without doubt, selling some expensive chemical to kill it off.

00:59:32.000 --> 00:59:37.000
There are lots of fungicides sort of thing yeah it's really difficult.

00:59:37.000 --> 00:59:51.000
I mean I think most most professional gardens will say if you've got it. Then it's it's a problem whether some species of tree or shrub or plant are more resistant to it I i'm unaware

00:59:51.000 --> 01:00:02.000
i'm afraid. Okay, right. One final question and this is from sue do fungi die after they have after the shot.

01:00:02.000 --> 01:00:07.000
They're spores, or whatever it does with their scores do they die?

01:00:07.000 --> 01:00:25.000
No, because what you're seeing on the surface just the fruit in body, and that dies so as soon as the first frost come along, they many of them in the autumn die that the actual mushroom or toads or dies itself but under the

01:00:25.000 --> 01:00:33.000
ground. The fungal mycelium will live and It can live for many years, as I say in in the United States.

01:00:33.000 --> 01:00:39.000
Apparently there's fungi that they've lived for thousands 8,000 or 10,000 years.

01:00:39.000 --> 01:00:49.000
So So They're very long-lived, organisms okay, And actually, just one final final question: Yeah, what's your favorite mushroom to eat?

01:00:49.000 --> 01:01:05.000
That comes from pete to eat. Oh, right i'm not very adventurous, because I read all these books about how dangerously can be when it enough I don't I don't forage that often I do go out and enjoy them

01:01:05.000 --> 01:01:19.000
look, look at them and love them. I guess my favorite wild mushroom is the set or the penny bun that is, that is, by far the nicest thing I've ever tried.

01:01:19.000 --> 01:01:26.000
I think i've had truffles graded on to food in in fancy restaurants.

01:01:26.000 --> 01:01:34.000
But I think my favorite would actually be the set for the Punnett penny bun Belitus Angelus great.

01:01:34.000 --> 01:01:44.000
Well, I think that's us Stephen thank you so much for that. That was absolutely fascinating, and I think I think everybody else thought so too, and by some of the comments that are coming in.

00:00:23.000 --> 00:00:34.000
Yes, this is the title which is the title of a book that I've produced.

00:00:34.000 --> 00:00:43.000
Wojtek the bear who went to war and well start with a statue which Fiona would be familiar with.

00:00:43.000 --> 00:00:47.000
I don't know. Perhaps some of you might have been to Edinburgh, and come across this fine statue of boy.

00:00:47.000 --> 00:01:02.000
Check the bear with his mind who are assumed as Peter prendis, and that was the erected in 2,015. The reasons it's in Edinburgh will come to but certainly it's not the only

00:01:02.000 --> 00:01:05.000
statute, for I check. There is another one in Wheels B.

00:01:05.000 --> 00:01:14.000
Wood in Grimsby, erected in 2,011, and another one in duns in Berkshire and the Scottish border region.

00:01:14.000 --> 00:01:21.000
So 3 statues for our bear and you'll notice carrying a shell.

00:01:21.000 --> 00:01:37.000
So Let's find out a little bit about it to start with He's a Syrian brown bear, or was versus up to Syriacus, and he was born I would guess probably something like about February of 1,940

00:01:37.000 --> 00:01:45.000
2, and was adopted by post soldiers who were in transit to Palestine, probably sometime in late March or April.

00:01:45.000 --> 00:01:55.000
Of that, and he went to war with them he ended up serving in Italy, where he famously carried shells up to the guns at the battle of Monte Casino.

00:01:55.000 --> 00:02:01.000
And he finished his life in Britain. so that's his life in a nutshell.

00:02:01.000 --> 00:02:12.000
I will just stop the screen. share for a moment. So how did I come to get involved with voice?

00:02:12.000 --> 00:02:18.000
Check the bear. Well, I can remember what you know. television clip on a daytime program where it talked about.

00:02:18.000 --> 00:02:26.000
This bear adopted by Polish soldiers and all his. These antics he got up to, and how he ended up the battle of Monte Casino.

00:02:26.000 --> 00:02:32.000
You know, and I told my wife about it with my wife, a writer, and we sort of thought.

00:02:32.000 --> 00:02:35.000
Oh, that would be an interesting story to maybe work on as a project.

00:02:35.000 --> 00:02:45.000
And so I did a bit of googling because I couldn't remember the names I just googled bear Monty Casino, not in Wikipedia came this entry from the check the bed.

00:02:45.000 --> 00:02:56.000
So we had the basics of we knew who he was, and I think, as we sort of thought about doing a project together, initial thoughts was, it could be almost like a fairy story for children.

00:02:56.000 --> 00:03:01.000
But there were a couple of questions we needed to sort of answer.

00:03:01.000 --> 00:03:06.000
Firstly, who were these Polish soldiers? Why were they in the middle of Persia?

00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:12.000
Whatever? What were they doing? Where were they going, and why was this bear so significant to them?

00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:26.000
And as we done, dug deeper and particularly if I about finding out about the Polish soldiers, we we came across a somewhat darker story, which has echoes with what's going on today in Eastern Europe with

00:03:26.000 --> 00:03:32.000
Ukraine. Well, we want well too much on that.

00:03:32.000 --> 00:03:44.000
So we kind of found out a bit more, and we realized that if we were going to tell the story of Wojtek, We needed to tell the story of these Polish soldiers as well, because they're intertwined, and the reasons why

00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:55.000
they took him on. and the reason the whole thing to do with the Second World War, and and how the polls they would end up in Britain, and they will bring Wojtek with me.

00:03:55.000 --> 00:04:07.000
And so, with that in mind, we started sort of put together some ideas as to how, where our book would go.

00:04:07.000 --> 00:04:20.000
The research showed that high proportion of these Polish soldiers that went on to become part of what was second Polish corps, and served part of the British Eighth Army came from Eastern and particularly South Eastern Poland.

00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:27.000
As it was before the war, basically what we would call Galicia the Carpathia Mountains district.

00:04:27.000 --> 00:04:44.000
So i'm going to go back into screen share we'll start with that map.

00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:48.000
So you can see along the bottom there this area of Galicia.

00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:55.000
So Poland, going back to the Middle Ages, have been a kingdom, and it had sort of vanished.

00:04:55.000 --> 00:05:10.000
The country the latter part of the eighteenth century, when the surgeon powers Imperial Russia to the east, the Habsburg Empire to the south, and this emerging power of Prussia to the East so basically divided it up It

00:05:10.000 --> 00:05:20.000
was partitioned amongst them, and so Poland disappear, or that disappeared, although there were sort of Polish Nationalists striving to try to create a Poland.

00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:36.000
So modern Poland really emerged in the in the sort of chaos that came out of the the First World War, where these dynastic empires disappeared, and under the treaty of Versailles, provision was made that a Poland should

00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:44.000
exist an independent country for Poland. There was a quite simple as that to the East Russia.

00:05:44.000 --> 00:05:58.000
They've been the Russian revolution, and the sort of the new Bolshevik Government had try to sort of seize these sort of Eastern territories here, and initially they pushed all the way.

00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:07.000
The red arm. it pushed virtually to war. so before it was defeated and driven back, and the stand down on top and push the red army all the way back.

00:06:07.000 --> 00:06:14.000
Eventually the Bolshevik government decided it was immersed in a civil war with the with the white Russians.

00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:24.000
They decided to make peace, and under the treaty of Riga we this is the Poland that was sort of came into being, but it meant that Polish Eastern Front.

00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:28.000
It was much much further to the Eastern than originally been anticipated.

00:06:28.000 --> 00:06:37.000
Under the treaty of their side. So it did mean that it was unfinished business for the Russians.

00:06:37.000 --> 00:06:43.000
Certainly so. In sort of creating our book we needed a character.

00:06:43.000 --> 00:06:57.000
Who would be the narrator? Someone who would be part of what was the 20 s supply company that adopted Wojtek, and for reasons I don't think i'm gonna have time to go into it in this talk today, we settle

00:06:57.000 --> 00:07:10.000
down when you come in from the town of jhabit, which you can see mark there, which is something like about 50 kilometers to from present-day lavieve or evolve as it was at the time and I've been known as

00:07:10.000 --> 00:07:20.000
Lemburg and when it's part of the Austro-hungarian Empire, and you could see the district generally that polls predominate over here.

00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:28.000
But over here It's very much a mixed sort of nationalities, and a lot of people, particularly in the countryside, would have been known as Ruthenians.

00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:35.000
So they were essentially slugs in the towns and cities you would have had a much higher proportion to polls living.

00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:42.000
So Johabit would have been a mix, probably a equal numbers of Poles and and Athenians.

00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:49.000
The the religious mix would have been similar. you would have had probably about third of the population.

00:07:49.000 --> 00:07:55.000
Jewish third would have been sort of Eastern orthodox, and a third of and Catholic.

00:07:55.000 --> 00:08:04.000
So all you know, a strange kind of mix. So our character grows up into hobbits and means part of this this area.

00:08:04.000 --> 00:08:11.000
Galicia, and this Poland comes to a sticky end.

00:08:11.000 --> 00:08:16.000
On the first of September the nineteenth 39 when it's invoked invaded by Germany.

00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:29.000
And the Germans. The Blitzkines makes quick advances, and for very long war, sir, is surrounded in the Polish armies.

00:08:29.000 --> 00:08:34.000
On the on this, at this side, on the sort of the northern and western side of Poland, are heavily defeated.

00:08:34.000 --> 00:08:40.000
To the south a second German offensive aim towards the Viv

00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:52.000
So flounder somewhere and publish the poles. The Polish army in this sector is mainly from these Eastern Galician areas.

00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:57.000
However, 17 September the nineteenth, 39.

00:08:57.000 --> 00:09:14.000
The Soviet Union under the nun, the trap, the pact that they made with Nazi, Germany, move in from the East, and so the poles that have been resisting around Laviev love eventually they fall prisoner to the

00:09:14.000 --> 00:09:23.000
Red Army. you can see what happens. Slow: Yeah, Nazi Germany.

00:09:23.000 --> 00:09:27.000
So Communist Soviet Union had it all stitched up.

00:09:27.000 --> 00:09:37.000
They were pre agreed what would happen. So these areas here are taken over by the Soviet Union, who they then march into Republic.

00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:59.000
States like attack over Finland as well. So our character, along with a lot of the other units from this area of Galicia, who have been sort of serving and fighting around love of full prisoner to the red army and a

00:09:59.000 --> 00:10:09.000
marched off to compounds. Their officers are separated out and they go off separate camps, and that's turns out to be quite sinister.

00:10:09.000 --> 00:10:17.000
Now the polls are the Polish soldiers generally might have thought the war's over, We might be sent home.

00:10:17.000 --> 00:10:21.000
We might be able to just go home. Go back home. we demand, and go home.

00:10:21.000 --> 00:10:28.000
Not a chance. What happens to them is that the So think.

00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:39.000
From these compounds. they heard it down to railway set centers put onto trucks, and they start being sent eastwards.

00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:43.000
They're going to be sent to labor terms now this part of the story.

00:10:43.000 --> 00:10:52.000
What happened to the Polls I've Highlight I've used quite extensively, a book called the Long Walk by a Slavomere.

00:10:52.000 --> 00:10:55.000
Ral Ralphitch, who was a Polish officer.

00:10:55.000 --> 00:11:05.000
He, he actually was serving on the western side of the Poland against the Germans, that he managed to sort of avoid being captured by them, and made his way back eastwards.

00:11:05.000 --> 00:11:12.000
But he them, and arrested by the Nkvd Russian equivalent of the to the Ss.

00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:22.000
And he was sent as a prisoner. In this way he was put onto a train and went sent to a camp in Siberia, and so a lot of what I must.

00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:31.000
My wife and I. When we made our story out we used heavily a lot of the incidents he describes particularly this one here where 2 trains clearly, you know, both made them.

00:11:31.000 --> 00:11:41.000
These cattle trucks pull alongside, and on the one of a load of soldiers, and on the other one they can tell that they're civilians that are being transported.

00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:47.000
And what was basically happening is that Soviet Union was not just moving prisoners eastwards.

00:11:47.000 --> 00:11:52.000
They were basically sort of ethnically cleansing the distance they taken over of poles.

00:11:52.000 --> 00:12:03.000
And so women and children were being likewise taken to camps in deep into into Russia, and they could have gone anywhere.

00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:17.000
They There were numerous camps spread across the soviet Union, and as Ralph Ralph found in his horror that when the train arrived at its destination, you were still probably nowhere near the camp, that you're going to be sent to

00:12:17.000 --> 00:12:28.000
and in this case he had march. and now these transports will be indone. As autumn of 1,939 was going into the war.

00:12:28.000 --> 00:12:35.000
40, and it's a bon lot and piano they were marching through of deep snow, and having to sort of survive in the own.

00:12:35.000 --> 00:12:39.000
Them, so, needless to say, loads of them died on route.

00:12:39.000 --> 00:12:53.000
They were by large shame together, so they would be chained in fours and then connected to a central train chain, was connected to a lorry which worked by on its Woodburn stove.

00:12:53.000 --> 00:12:58.000
Basically was not powered it, and eventually they would arrive at a camp.

00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:07.000
And as Ralph it sounds to his horror, it there they were to be held in in hearts, but they weren't enough huts.

00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:12.000
So the first job was to actually go and build the huts that they would be staying in.

00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:19.000
So a further few nights in the open, trying to sort of make sure they got all the wood together to make their hearts.

00:13:19.000 --> 00:13:27.000
So these camps, and there were dozens and dozens of them spread right across the Soviet Union.

00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:35.000
They were administered by the Nkvd, and we have the word goo lag, which is a sort of an acronym

00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:42.000
It. Gulags more were for internal prisoners of political prisoners, common criminals.

00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:55.000
Even polished soldiers would have ending up really what would have been these which were camps for foreigners and prisoners of war?

00:13:55.000 --> 00:14:02.000
The worst camp I came across was Coal mine, which was way way across right across the other side of Siberia.

00:14:02.000 --> 00:14:18.000
The statistic there showed you how bad it was. There were 12,000 Poles were sent there, where they would have mainly been doing mining, open course mining, and only 583 survive down to about 20,000 12,000

00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:25.000
so they could have been anywhere, these camps. But yeah, not easily accessible and not really escapable.

00:14:25.000 --> 00:14:35.000
Now man, Slava Slavmir, about Rochester. He actually managed to escape one of these camps and made his way to India would have been a rarity.

00:14:35.000 --> 00:14:43.000
I used a lot of these images there by an unknown artist courage.

00:14:43.000 --> 00:14:51.000
Artists who survived this time in these camps, and did a lot of drawing subsequently, and on this this on virtual museum.

00:14:51.000 --> 00:15:02.000
But they were. They were incredible to sort of give me the reference to sort of illustrate the story, and you can see a lot of their work would have been involved with logging producing word.

00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:18.000
So in the winter they were cutting the trees down process them the planks, and then, when rivers and things on froze as you went into spring and summer, they could be transported, they would also be used to make log roads there weren't

00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:22.000
too many tarmac roads that could the Soviet Union.

00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:27.000
But log roads were quite common. it's called a roy road stuffing.

00:15:27.000 --> 00:15:38.000
The German invading forces found them very strange and so I use these pictures and see, that's how I use that particular one, you know, the story of Wojtek.

00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:50.000
Check. So 2 winters went past the poles in the activity in these work camps being worked to death.

00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:57.000
And then suddenly the world changed on the 20 s of tune, one with the start of operation.

00:15:57.000 --> 00:16:07.000
Barbarossa and the German invasion of the Soviet Union and the German Army that they're mark number of so stunning victories.

00:16:07.000 --> 00:16:18.000
In the early weeks of the war, whole Russian armies which just destroyed in these opening and what it meant was stuck.

00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:40.000
The the Soviet Union decided to offer up polls and amnesty, whereby, if they were prepared to serve, fight against the Germans, they would be released from these these camps.

00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:43.000
I think the polls were a bit miffed by this.

00:16:43.000 --> 00:16:47.000
This idea of an amnesty suggesting that they've done something wrong.

00:16:47.000 --> 00:16:51.000
I mean they were being held prisoner and well as prisoners.

00:16:51.000 --> 00:17:05.000
They were. They had libraries in these camps, and there were sort of political sort of ideological talks whereby to sort of try to instill in them sort of, and the first of communism.

00:17:05.000 --> 00:17:08.000
But by large I mean they're only crime as far as they could was being polish.

00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:14.000
So the idea that they would have an amnesty releasing them from the camps and the bit well.

00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:22.000
But anyway, most of them accepted this, and before long they will be in release in the camps and making their way with these documents here.

00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:30.000
This is This is an amnesty document. I like 1,000 to travel Russian trains to go and serve in the war.

00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:39.000
My name is See them come! and they made their way to a camp near a little a town called Buzzer.

00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:53.000
Look which is sort of east of Moscow, some 100 200 miles east of Master going into the Ural Mountains 2, and they gathered that, and nothing happened, and they just sat there.

00:17:53.000 --> 00:18:04.000
And in some ways they were actually worse off. and they were in the camps that now they're only accommodation more intense, and the rations were so pitiful.

00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:13.000
Really and they just. the weather was getting worse, and this war was getting worse as well.

00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:22.000
Russia was the Russian. The Germans were now advancing on Moscow and landing grad, and they were just abandoned and used to work out what was going on.

00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:30.000
I just stopped the screen share there a bit of a mystery because they volunteer to fight.

00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:35.000
Now? did the Russians want them to fight? Why were they not being news?

00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:41.000
It was something like 300,000 new total that were now, and they were experienced soldiers by long.

00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:47.000
Why did the Red Army not want them? Well, there were 2 main reasons. as far as I can work out.

00:18:47.000 --> 00:18:50.000
One of them was that they have no very few offices.

00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:55.000
The officers had marked, been marched off the separate camps by the

00:18:55.000 --> 00:19:09.000
The Soviet Union in these Camps, the Nkvd. try to instill in them ideas of Communism, and to make them super sense to the cause, and had not had much success.

00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:15.000
So in the end the Nkvd decided to shoot them. Something like 20.

00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:21.000
2,000 of these officers had been been shot along with policemen and intellectuals.

00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:35.000
So it meant that once these Polish soldiers were gathering, there were no offices anymore, or very few, and I think the other reason was the fact that the Red Army was essentially an ideological element.

00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:54.000
It had an officer structure, a command structure, but it had a parallel system of political officers, commissars to in instill and inspire and educate the common soldier, but also to keep an eye on the officer You can

00:19:54.000 --> 00:20:03.000
understand how officers were constantly being watched. They It kind of meant that Russian officers felt they couldn't use any kind of initiative.

00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:11.000
They would give them an order. Attack that machine gun post, you would carry it out any kind of like making a tactical retreat, or anything like that.

00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:25.000
You would probably be arrested. And so it had a crippling effect on the Red Army, and they were fighting a highly professional army in the vehicle. who instilled an idea that officers should use their

00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:31.000
initiative. they should be resourceful I suppose it's a it's ironic that as the war progressed.

00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:36.000
Yes, the Red Army became more professional. what Whereas the Vermont became more ideological.

00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:46.000
So by 1,945 they were much the same, but in 1,941. They were still clinging to this idea of the political commissar system.

00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:57.000
What they didn't want was load, of poles turning up at the front, who were not stimuli ideologically inspired. so they hadn't no officers, and they had no missiles.

00:20:57.000 --> 00:21:09.000
And so by and large. Yeah, these these Polish soldiers were just left a rock, despite the fact that by the end of the year Soviet Union had lost something like 4.3,000,000 soldiers.

00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:20.000
Already as casualties, staggering number. So how did they get out of this back to the screen?

00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:39.000
Share well, rather than being sent to the front in ash of fact, what the polls polls were done. They they were marched off somewhere else to Tash Kent, which at least wasn't you know.

00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:53.000
This is now deep into the winter, so at least they weren't exposed to quite the same level of snow and ice, and but they were even further from the front, and there seem to be no resolution to this as to what would be happening to

00:21:53.000 --> 00:22:03.000
them. They did, at least by now, have a commanding officer, General Anders, and some other officers.

00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:13.000
And is He was lucky He He had been arrested by the Ankvd, and now on the right there you can see his mug shots, and he was quite brutally tortured.

00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:22.000
But eventually he was released rather than shot, and so that he was the one that senior commander that the the

00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:28.000
The Red Army had that they could turn to to take a moment of these Polish soldiers.

00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:44.000
Still nothing was happening. so Anda seems to have been out to negotiate a deal whereby, if the Red Army was not prepared to use these parish soldiers, they could be transferred to the British forces serving in the Middle East

00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:50.000
and the the British in the Middle East were desperate for manpower.

00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:55.000
And so they agreed with this. And so basically this is what would happen.

00:22:55.000 --> 00:23:10.000
About a 100,000 of them were transported. They were taken by trains to Krasn of Adoits, and then put on to ships and transported across the Caspian Sea. to Persia.

00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:17.000
Modern-day Iran. When they arrived the British were waiting for them, and were absolutely aghast at the State.

00:23:17.000 --> 00:23:33.000
When these men were turned up, I mean they were like living skeletons, and they most thousands of them had to be hospitalized before they could do anything at all, and a lot of them were just beyond you know they could they were no longer fit for

00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:46.000
for active service, so it took several weeks to sort of build up their strength, get them fit, well fed, and then provide them with uniforms, and eventually they were ready for transport.

00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:58.000
And so, as we go into the spring of man, 42, they are gradually so taxied across Persia to

00:23:58.000 --> 00:24:16.000
The this, What would be Palestine, I suppose? Trans. Jordan, as it was under British Government, mandated from the first war, and it was while they were on their way, and about a group of soldiers designated to become 20 s supply

00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:21.000
company adopted a little bear cub. Different stories are still.

00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:26.000
How they got in. The name. one is that they were up in somewhere.

00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:40.000
Briefly. a young boy would approach them, begging for money or something, and they noticed the other bad, and the bags seem to be moving around, and they were curious. And then he said, Well, we pulled out this bear cub which he obviously found the mud

00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:48.000
had always been shot, and he wanted the backup, and he was clearly going to try and sell the bear cub, so it would be used for entertainment somewhere.

00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:52.000
The polls, you know, and I think they just thought well we'd like it.

00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:56.000
We'd like to have him We'll look after him and he can become our company.

00:24:56.000 --> 00:24:59.000
Mascot, so you can see some nice pictures of him there.

00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:10.000
And in his early days they have to sort of feed him sort of powdered milk by some kind of improvised bottle.

00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:16.000
They gave you strength up, and they decided calling Wojtek, which basically means warrior.

00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:28.000
So you can see I had great fun for this bit. The story, and our Polish soldiers, together with voicemail, completed their journey.

00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:44.000
They came to Tel Aviv this amazing white city, gleaming white city rising out of the desert, this Jewish city, and, to be honest, a lot of the prisoners actually were Jewish and a lot of them decided to stay here they opted

00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:48.000
out of the army. it's not right now this is it but staying here.

00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:55.000
Many more stayed in the army to, and they were then sent out to a camp just now.

00:25:55.000 --> 00:26:07.000
Side, Til avi gadara, where they now underwent the process of being turned into a functioning arm unit, so they would have received their British lorries.

00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:15.000
They've got their British uniforms and now start to operate as intended to be a supply company mainly to supply the artillery.

00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:23.000
The and areas. Wojtek and boy check very quickly.

00:26:23.000 --> 00:26:29.000
Sort of got into this routine of army life even very often go out in the trucks.

00:26:29.000 --> 00:26:33.000
I love going love traveling so he'd be up there in the driver's cab with them.

00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:38.000
And you know they obviously were delighted with their new mascot.

00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:42.000
And yeah, they would sort of take him out in about there.

00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:45.000
He is on a visit. I to leave the souk.

00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:52.000
So. yeah, he was so he became very quick I don't know if domesticators is the right word when you're a war.

00:26:52.000 --> 00:27:02.000
But but clearly very tame. I mean he was like a highly intelligent dog that had a very strong sense of being part of a family group.

00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:09.000
The Okay. This family is like probably about a 100 men in total, but he he was familiar with all of them.

00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:22.000
So the war. At this stage the polls have now joined the rich and common world forces.

00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:37.000
Serving in the Middle East. there were already a Polish units, so they serve the distinction as the siege of Cherbrook, and and it was a war that was not going very well at this point to be

00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:46.000
honest. The British forces in the Middle East had some spectacular successes early on, when they were fighting just purely against the Italians and the Vc. French.

00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:52.000
So they've been out to take Syria which was a French had been on the French control.

00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:59.000
They want some spectacular victories in the horn of Africa against the Italians there.

00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:09.000
But particularly in Egypt and libya where a huge Italian army, had tried to invade invaded Egypt, trying to seize the Suez Canal.

00:28:09.000 --> 00:28:15.000
And are a British and Commonwealth army, just 36,000 men, and one a spectacular victory.

00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:19.000
And then the taking about a 100,000 prisoners, you know.

00:28:19.000 --> 00:28:27.000
So like 3 times the number of their own army. and they driven amendments of this Italian army all the way back to Tripoli.

00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:32.000
Hitler by now was given up in the italians and he thought right.

00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:45.000
We're gonna have to bail them out and So the Panzer force was hurried across to Tripoli, under the command of General Rommel, and he soon put paid to this British advance.

00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:52.000
The British by now, had also sent a lot of troops to Greece, and to try and stop the the Germans and Italians.

00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:58.000
There unsuccessfully, And so Rommel was able to advance all the way back towards Egypt.

00:28:58.000 --> 00:29:07.000
He was eventually stopped by Tre Brook and driven back by the the new general joint, looking like.

00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:16.000
But as we went into 1,940, so a new offensive by Rommel and the some broken the British, and was now advancing.

00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:21.000
Alexander, Andrea and Cairo and the Suits Canal.

00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:32.000
And so there was a real panic. the polls, when by no means ready, they they could not function as an army unit back this time.

00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:38.000
So thankfully awkin. Lake was able to sort of rally his troops and stock.

00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:41.000
The Germans and the Italians of Llamo.

00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:47.000
Nevertheless, he was replaced, and a new team of General Alexander and Montgomery.

00:29:47.000 --> 00:29:54.000
We came in. As we go towards the autumn things change again.

00:29:54.000 --> 00:30:11.000
Montgomery wins the battle of La Maine, while American forces have dropped land at the other end of the North African coast in Morocco, and very soon the Axis forces in North Africa are facing defeat the

00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:14.000
Mediterranean is going to come under Allied control.

00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:23.000
So our polls might have thought we can join this Western advance to finish off the Germans in North Africa.

00:30:23.000 --> 00:30:43.000
But in actual fact they sent the other direction. They were sent to Iraq, and they were sent there to guard oil fields, which were sort of owned by British and American companies.

00:30:43.000 --> 00:30:48.000
And obviously right, that key element in mechanized warfare.

00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:54.000
And of course there was Wojtek now. the size of a sort of medium-sized dog medium to large.

00:30:54.000 --> 00:31:02.000
So It's dog coming on and enjoying life in the Polish army.

00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:09.000
So Christmas, 1,942, and our Polish soldiers would have enjoyed their first traditional Christmas.

00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:12.000
I think well all have been since 1,938.

00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:24.000
So, and star of the party, with life and soul of it, was Wojtek going round, and we by now I adopted a habit of drinking beer and smoking cigarettes.

00:31:24.000 --> 00:31:27.000
Apparently he would just take one puff on a cigarette and then eat it.

00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:36.000
But but he liked a beer definitely like to be a and so he, I think you know, he would have delighted the soldiers at this point.

00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:46.000
Apparently when they got to the end of their Christmas feast, and they went off because this wouldn't want Christmas Eve, they went off to midnight mass and void check was now a little bit tiddly went off to the kitchens

00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:51.000
and just ransacked. The kitchens were more grubs in trouble.

00:31:51.000 --> 00:32:01.000
The following morning. It was as well they were in Iraq that the polls nearly lost 4 check twice.

00:32:01.000 --> 00:32:14.000
Once was when he just disappeared. He just went off and you can only assume that he was now back a lot closer to where he'd been born, and some kind of home in instinct.

00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:21.000
Have kicked in. So you went wandering off into the desert, and the so the polls are desperate.

00:32:21.000 --> 00:32:29.000
And what they did. They got a water wagon together, and they managed to find some spot in where he was, and one of his key creature.

00:32:29.000 --> 00:32:37.000
Comfort was showers. He loved the shower, the and so they they lured him back to the camp by providing him with a shower.

00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:44.000
The second time they nearly lost him was when he got stung by scorpion.

00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:52.000
His nose, and he was close to death for several days, and I think both of these instances it.

00:32:52.000 --> 00:33:01.000
The palms are absolutely bereft, you know. I mean they they were really cut up where they might lose their bear, and you clearly give them identity.

00:33:01.000 --> 00:33:05.000
Remember that they are the supply, and they are basically part of the baggage train.

00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:11.000
They're not part of some glamorous camera unit Well, something or regards unit.

00:33:11.000 --> 00:33:16.000
They're just to supply people and I think Wojtek had given them an identity with a many with the bear.

00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:20.000
They were not the only soldiers to have a bear as a mascot.

00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:25.000
There was another company, but this pair was a bit of a nutcase, and apparently when they tried to put him together.

00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:39.000
If we just went for it, and eventually that to get rid of this pair there's Wojtek become very much comrade who was a colleague who, as much as anything else, they really just saw him as one of them and

00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:43.000
I think when they nearly lost it they were heartbroken.

00:33:43.000 --> 00:33:48.000
His most famous expert was when he captured a spire.

00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:57.000
So the in Iraq and the British presence in Iraq was not that welcomed by a lot of Iraqis?

00:33:57.000 --> 00:34:11.000
And I think the polls who were by proxy British probably could identify the some of your feelings, and in their country their own country have been occupied by foreign armies, and now they were part of an army occupying someone else's.

00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:25.000
Country. There it had been an attempt to sort of overthrow the the King of Iraq and replace him with an anti-British government, and the British had stepped in and put back down so there, were the sort of anti-British

00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:32.000
sentiment still rife, and so a spy apparently broke into the the compound and the within.

00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:39.000
He was going to try and see whether it be possible to attack or in this compound in any way.

00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:45.000
He crept in, and he decided for some reason to hire hide in the shower block.

00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:54.000
Now Wojtek was on the prowl, as he usually was overnight, saw someone open in the shower block and thought, Oh, goody, I can go and have a shower.

00:34:54.000 --> 00:35:04.000
He was banned from the showers he'd learned how to turn them on, and was often to sit there for it for our ages, just, and, you know valuable water pouring off them.

00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:11.000
So he obviously crept in, and this guy just suddenly was confronted by a bear. a fairly large bear by now and obviously talk like me.

00:35:11.000 --> 00:35:14.000
They don't have guard dots here they have guard bears anyway.

00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:30.000
The all the cafesal a century turned up, and the rest of this bloke is But, yeah, boy, check, stop the spy as we get Towards the autumn of 1,943.

00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:45.000
The polls finished, this didn't in their arm and make their way back to Palestine, where we get another fabulous little incident involved in Wojtek that was left to prowl again and came across the laundry being hung up by the women

00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:56.000
alluxiliary as the polish woman a zealous in the nearby camp, decided to go and play, and seems to have turned up back at the camp, looking something like that it's the best.

00:35:56.000 --> 00:36:00.000
Work at illustrating. and so in a piece of excellent Pr.

00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:14.000
Peter Premise and the other polls decided that they would relawn to this stuff that they got wrecked by Wojtek and rushing round talking, apologize in person to the female auxiliaries You can see there

00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:18.000
this lovely photo of them all. How many? They were just charmed by him!

00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:22.000
We were, you know it was apparently a real charm in that respect.

00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:37.000
December 1,943 they're now fully constituted, published second core prepares to move to Egypt and prepare for embarkation.

00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:45.000
Then there is a problem, because the British Navy has said that it will not allow wild animals to be taken on board.

00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:51.000
Clearly. there are a lot of mascots when these Polish tunics, and they said no wild animals.

00:36:51.000 --> 00:37:00.000
And again the Polish soldiers in company 20 supply company 22 so there's no way we're not leaving out there behind.

00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:04.000
And so what do they do? They officially enlist him.

00:37:04.000 --> 00:37:10.000
So we now becomes private Wojtek, and on full army pay as well, and he gets a number.

00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:15.000
They managed to blag on getting on board that way.

00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:27.000
Then he later becomes promoted to corporal by the way and with the pose he heads off to join the front line by Monty Casino.

00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:34.000
The British and Americans had successfully invaded Italy and they got stuck.

00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:41.000
They've managed to get as Far as Naples They got beyond Naples, but on the route to Rome they came up against German defensive.

00:37:41.000 --> 00:37:46.000
One Augusta line pivot of which was this high point.

00:37:46.000 --> 00:37:54.000
Here, Monte Casino, the town, and then the famous monastery perched on the mountain above it, and nothing they could do could shift it.

00:37:54.000 --> 00:38:03.000
The Americans have tried. the British had drive New Zealand's have tried the Indians a tribe that Gurkhas have tried, and now it's going to be the polls.

00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:07.000
Term the polls were given. They were now fresh troops in the line.

00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:21.000
Clearly their commander, General Landers, had pushed this. I think he saw that if Poland was to have any real say in negotiations about what Europe would look like afterwards.

00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:29.000
Polish blood on have to be spilled. And so I think he wanted this this chance to show what the Polish forces could do.

00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:47.000
And so there was a build-up, and then, finally, on the fifth of May, huge artillery Barrage and the German positions, Monte Casino left the nest out there makes it look They become gambling and in

00:38:47.000 --> 00:39:02.000
the morning Polish army attack, and it was while they were on a resupplying run they took Wojtek with them, but he famously started helping the soldiers to carry the shells up to the guns.

00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:13.000
And after that this became a regular event. So the Polish attack on the Casino failed.

00:39:13.000 --> 00:39:21.000
Heavy losses, but a second attack, and later in the month, finally took the town of Montreal.

00:39:21.000 --> 00:39:27.000
To be honest. By this time a non frontal assault by the French and French units.

00:39:27.000 --> 00:39:33.000
Fighting had got in behind Monte Casino, and the Germans, pregnant effectively evacuated the position.

00:39:33.000 --> 00:39:40.000
They would have been cut off on the wise but nevertheless the polls, the to the credit, the polls.

00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:44.000
They finally managed to raise their flag on what remained with a monastery on the top of A.

00:39:44.000 --> 00:39:50.000
But it had taken a terrible toll. There were no natural replacements to them.

00:39:50.000 --> 00:40:01.000
Apart from German prisoners of war. the germans were now in the habit of forcibly enlisting Poles into the into the to the Vermont.

00:40:01.000 --> 00:40:06.000
And obviously they didn't say but in any great enthusiasm and surrender as quickly as they could.

00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:23.000
So the replacements they got were actually sold in fighting in the German army, proposed the post second core, recuperated, then was transferred onto the right flank of the British Eighth army on the Adriatic coast and then

00:40:23.000 --> 00:40:29.000
took part in the various attacks, as the Germans gradually driven back.

00:40:29.000 --> 00:40:36.000
So the by, about April they were so serving in taking part in the offensive capture.

00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:40.000
Bologna Wojtek was in his element in Italy.

00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:44.000
Oh, my God! yes, very much the gourmet there.

00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:54.000
There are all sorts of things, particularly in the autumn, with the bin yards and the fruit, and all the kind of Italian food Salami fish you name it.

00:40:54.000 --> 00:41:06.000
He would be need to really enjoying himself. and things were going very well, and the polls of company to supply company 22.

00:41:06.000 --> 00:41:12.000
We're thinking Where are the wars coming to an end the Germans are on the brink of defeat.

00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:17.000
And they could start to think about maybe going home, going back to Poland.

00:41:17.000 --> 00:41:23.000
And then this happens more of this briefly stop the share.

00:41:23.000 --> 00:41:37.000
Yes, the the conference that the altar where the 3 main powers got together to sort of make some decisions about what your looks.

00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:44.000
Yes, Germany was there's no option other than a complete surrender.

00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:59.000
But what what would come out of the war? One of the things that came out of the comforts at Yalta was that the America Britain acknowledged that the Soviet Union would hold on to the Territories

00:41:59.000 --> 00:42:02.000
that it took as part of their agreement with the Russians.

00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:12.000
Back in our and 39, you know. In other words, Lithuania, the Baltic States and eastern parts of Poland were the remain part of the Soviet Union.

00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:26.000
That meant that for a lot of the soldiers serving in this 20 s supply company and other units as part of the Second 200 published call mainly from Galicia.

00:42:26.000 --> 00:42:32.000
It meant with that we're now going to be in Soviet Union.

00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:39.000
One thing. To go back to Poland, which they could see quite obviously would be under the control of the Russians.

00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:45.000
It would be a proxy state that was taught that there would be elect free elections, but they knew that that wouldn't happen.

00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:50.000
The Poland, such as it exists in, would be a property statement.

00:42:50.000 --> 00:43:02.000
The Soviet Union but in fact the town's litrehavic like love. they would now be part of the Soviet Union, and you can understand the reluctance, after what they've been through and that they wouldn't want to go

00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:17.000
back there, so back into the screen share to bring them to a hope fairly soon.

00:43:17.000 --> 00:43:35.000
So the war ended this the polls they didn't know what to do. For a time they were just they just remained as occupation, and eventually they, the British Government, decided to bring them back to Britain.

00:43:35.000 --> 00:43:42.000
This is a map I did for the book which showed the root that our character have been on.

00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:47.000
So you can see it's quite an odyssey and on this final leg.

00:43:47.000 --> 00:43:51.000
To Britain and the come the Supply Company 22.

00:43:51.000 --> 00:43:57.000
They decided they're not leaving boy check behind he came with them so you can see the attachment.

00:43:57.000 --> 00:44:06.000
So Wojtek comes to Britain, and they transferred to Winfield Camp, which had been set aside for Polish resettlement.

00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:20.000
By now the British Government had accepted that the polls were not going to go back to Poland; that it existed, or to their hometowns now in the Soviet Union, and offered all of them right of residents in Britain

00:44:20.000 --> 00:44:24.000
so reset one camps they would be marked and they could then learn properly.

00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:40.000
They could learn English if they Couldn't speak in English they could train whatever. And I suppose there came a point where the polls were now going off into new lives in Britain less and lesser than the the decision about Wojtek in the meantime yeah

00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:46.000
he'd been around even to barrack upon tweed He used to go out and enjoy the local night life.

00:44:46.000 --> 00:44:50.000
He loved music, to sit down the front and watch with a bottle of beer.

00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:59.000
But there was only one. Ultimately one solution. Deal was reached with Edinburgh for him to go there.

00:44:59.000 --> 00:45:12.000
The director, Gillespie, who sent the Zoo up in the first place, very self advanced in these ideas about the how animals should be held in zoos and so forth.

00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:23.000
So. yeah, he looked out his life until 63 He was briefly famous in the late fifties on Blue Peter.

00:45:23.000 --> 00:45:28.000
I'm, still alive, but with his death he disfaded into obscurity.

00:45:28.000 --> 00:45:34.000
Until now there's certainly been a massive upsurge of interest in more statues.

00:45:34.000 --> 00:45:45.000
One Casino, another one across of and with the end of the Cold War. Poland has been finding out about this national hero, and he has become quite enough.

00:45:45.000 --> 00:46:02.000
Quite a make figure now. So if you go online, and Google voice check you'll have no end of a range of stuff merchandise to buy from Teddy bears t-shirt cups, and there are books and I would particularly

00:46:02.000 --> 00:46:10.000
recommend Eileen. all's book she was Instrumental in in the wrenching from the statue in Edinburgh.

00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:19.000
That's a board game on the right here and that's the children's put their apart from mine, and my wife's effort as well to school.

00:46:19.000 --> 00:46:29.000
No doubt come up, and that basically is that pass you back to Fiona.

00:46:29.000 --> 00:46:32.000
Thanks really much for that, Bob. What story and what a journey!

00:46:32.000 --> 00:46:41.000
And I think everybody we agree. No, what we shall do i've got a couple of questions, so if anybody's got any other questions?

00:46:41.000 --> 00:46:53.000
Certainly send them in. but we've got a couple here Now you you you've talked about some of the illustrations that you have in your book that you're based on some illustrations from from other places did you have to get

00:46:53.000 --> 00:46:59.000
permission to sort of use those illustrations no because I wasn't using them directly.

00:46:59.000 --> 00:47:07.000
I was just using those source material so I mean we credit them in the book. but they're buying an anonymous artist.

00:47:07.000 --> 00:47:22.000
To be honest. So they're They're just online but And so this question from Miranda. So I hope that answers your question, Miranda, and there's another another question here, from Anne, this is an interesting one she says

00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:28.000
there is an armored bear in philip pullman's novels, his dark materials.

00:47:28.000 --> 00:47:34.000
Yeah, I wonder if he is based on I doubt it.

00:47:34.000 --> 00:47:40.000
I doubt it. But yeah, interested. Yeah, I know I know the bad.

00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:50.000
I know what you mean. Yeah, I wouldn't have thought So what you have known about boy check unlikely. Hmm.

00:47:50.000 --> 00:47:56.000
Okay, and we've got some other questions and i's asking how can we get you a book?

00:47:56.000 --> 00:48:06.000
Don't worry. Everybody will have details of that posted up on it will, and it work shopping.

00:48:06.000 --> 00:48:12.000
If you go into shopping I think it'll almost certainly come out, it's available from all sorts of different outlets.

00:48:12.000 --> 00:48:21.000
Amazon foils you name. It Okay, was disable we'll get some details.

00:48:21.000 --> 00:48:25.000
A question from Anne. I don't know if this is one that you'd be able to answer.

00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:30.000
But let's let's ask anyway how come the beer wasn't dangerous?

00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:40.000
Why do you think he was so? became? Sultan wondered about that, because, as I said, there was another bow of another unit, and they just.

00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:47.000
He was just uncontrollable, whereas Wojtek for some reason was very I mean, you know, he, because I used to wrestle with him.

00:48:47.000 --> 00:48:53.000
If you look if you go at Google and just see photos and they're wrestling with him, you're thinking blindly, wrestling with the bed.

00:48:53.000 --> 00:48:57.000
So he kind of knew his own strength, and he knew he was playing.

00:48:57.000 --> 00:49:03.000
And these just seems to have been highly intelligent and just it's like dogs.

00:49:03.000 --> 00:49:08.000
I mean, you know, some dogs are amazing. Family pets and other dogs are like nutcases.

00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:13.000
We were just talking about dogs last week and their last lecture.

00:49:13.000 --> 00:49:21.000
So yeah, interesting and Elizabeth's asking did the bear ever have a mate?

00:49:21.000 --> 00:49:29.000
Not that i'm aware of he certainly had friends he was very friendly with a dog.

00:49:29.000 --> 00:49:35.000
There was a the the British. It was a British officer, attached a liaison office.

00:49:35.000 --> 00:49:41.000
We had a dog and Wojtek and the dog was to play a lot, but i'm not sure he had a mate.

00:49:41.000 --> 00:49:45.000
So he missed out on that one, I think. Thank you.

00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:53.000
And Jane's asking what sources did you use to research the story, because I would imagine you probably had to go to quite a lot of places.

00:49:53.000 --> 00:50:09.000
Yeah. Oh, unbelievable amount I mean the there's 2 folders down there on this case behind with reference material that's just downloaded from the Internet almost every panel.

00:50:09.000 --> 00:50:18.000
You know there's. a there's a degree of reference just I mean, draw the number of trucks I it to draw these British army trucks.

00:50:18.000 --> 00:50:25.000
But yeah, i've cited in terms of the story the Eileen, or book was was kind, quite good.

00:50:25.000 --> 00:50:28.000
There were other accounts, I mean, that was very good, in fact.

00:50:28.000 --> 00:50:37.000
And then for things like i've cited this one the long walk. that that was invaluable to give us an idea of what it was like going through these camps.

00:50:37.000 --> 00:50:42.000
But that that online website as well was very good the one where I found the pictures.

00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:49.000
There's a lot of testimonies on there because it's devoted to polls from these eastern areas.

00:50:49.000 --> 00:50:54.000
That sort of suffered at the hands of the Soviet Union, so that that was a major source of read.

00:50:54.000 --> 00:51:00.000
So they're all there are all cited in the book Okay,

00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:08.000
Another question here from Diana. Did the bears former comrades ever visit him in the Zoo?

00:51:08.000 --> 00:51:17.000
They did, and he used to they reckon he recognized them and they taught him they he'd learned how to salute the Polish salute. You probably see it in the book they it's like that it's like boy.

00:51:17.000 --> 00:51:22.000
Scouts that, and he learned how to do that. So yeah, they would go.

00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:30.000
They would do a lot of them would make regular visits to see them, and you would salute them, and all sorts of things. whether they went into the compound with them. I don't know.

00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:33.000
I don't think the Zoo would have allowed them by that time.

00:51:33.000 --> 00:51:38.000
But yeah, certainly he had a lot of you know. They were clearly cut up, but they did. You know.

00:51:38.000 --> 00:51:42.000
What can you do? You can't keep a bear you the house, you know?

00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:50.000
Not really okay, Thank you. Now we've got a question here from Susan.

00:51:50.000 --> 00:51:59.000
And who's asking what is the connection? with good newsby and so that And then I've got another comment from somebody else that want to chop enough.

00:51:59.000 --> 00:52:17.000
Okay, so, Grimsby, that that park was another one of the Port Polish resettlement centers, and I think you can see how Wojtek had grown from just being a mascot of this one particular company to become a more general mascot for

00:52:17.000 --> 00:52:23.000
the Polish Second Corps. so I think a lot of the polls have kind of adopted him. so he had nothing.

00:52:23.000 --> 00:52:31.000
Whatsoever to do with Grimsby and that particular unit, the men that were there were

00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:34.000
They were so other other units in the post second call.

00:52:34.000 --> 00:52:39.000
But yeah, Yeah, I was just gonna say Linda has put in a comment.

00:52:39.000 --> 00:52:48.000
Just sort of You know She's from grimsby and she's saying, This is also the story of my late uncle, who was in the Carpathian lancers. They were there.

00:52:48.000 --> 00:52:56.000
Yeah, I know my wife had an uncle who was, I mean Grimsby. So I mean, I found out about the statue through A. W. A.

00:52:56.000 --> 00:53:01.000
Session was doing an online one and present to me session and a woman we lived in.

00:53:01.000 --> 00:53:05.000
She stabbed the mention about voyeur and she said, Oh, we got statue.

00:53:05.000 --> 00:53:11.000
They don't know what yeah yeah and grimsby this one. So yeah, that was.

00:53:11.000 --> 00:53:14.000
But there may be others, for all I know and dotted around the country.

00:53:14.000 --> 00:53:17.000
But yeah, well, they had quite a long journey didn't they Yeah,

00:53:17.000 --> 00:53:30.000
I'll just pop in another comment from Stephen he says his loving cousin is one of the last remaining civilians that was kidnapped to Russia, and it was a baby when his mother and sister were transported to

00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:39.000
Psychedelia, and it's alive, and well and living in South London of interesting Yeah.

00:53:39.000 --> 00:53:48.000
So there we go, right. Oh, by the way, I have got a guest. Very good.

00:53:48.000 --> 00:54:02.000
Oh, I check! Thought he would join us. Important question from Peter Was Wojtek still allowed beer in the Zoo.

00:54:02.000 --> 00:54:09.000
Do we know? Was he well sorry, still allowed beer in the Zoo?

00:54:09.000 --> 00:54:16.000
Oh, Crush, I very much doubt it. but yeah I really don't know.

00:54:16.000 --> 00:54:18.000
I don't know you know I was trying to find out about this.

00:54:18.000 --> 00:54:25.000
I mean. they know he was quite up on guard, Gillespie, the the director of the Zoo. but we extended it to that.

00:54:25.000 --> 00:54:31.000
I don't know. I doubt it, but I know he wasn't allowed to roam around, not like the penguins.

00:54:31.000 --> 00:54:39.000
So there was a penguins haven't done their walk any time I've been to Edinburgh zoo all right.

00:54:39.000 --> 00:54:43.000
There's one pandemic besides whether they're gonna do it or not.

00:54:43.000 --> 00:54:51.000
Yeah, what's up to them to to whether they do make some which is good and okay, digressing there slightly.

00:54:51.000 --> 00:54:55.000
And the question from Elizabeth, Where are you interested in military history?

00:54:55.000 --> 00:55:04.000
Before you started to research into wikipedia Well, funnily enough, over the last few years I've completed a trilogy of war.

00:55:04.000 --> 00:55:16.000
Animal, true life, war, animal stories. Now why did I used to with a friend of mine?

00:55:16.000 --> 00:55:19.000
We used to do a lot of things in schools about world war, one from 2,014.

00:55:19.000 --> 00:55:22.000
That was a lot of it. So we actually did a world war.

00:55:22.000 --> 00:55:25.000
One day where we dressed up. I was an officer.

00:55:25.000 --> 00:55:37.000
He was a sergeant major. We go in and out of that I used to tell a story, and I did a load of drawings about a cat that was found in a German dugout by a soldier from the Manchester.

00:55:37.000 --> 00:55:43.000
Regiment, and I thought it's just a delightful story I just did some illustrate, and i'd turn that into a book as well.

00:55:43.000 --> 00:55:51.000
And then I got a commission from the D-day Museum in Portsmouth to illustrate a story about a pigeon.

00:55:51.000 --> 00:56:03.000
Do one Dickens Medal It was like the animal equipment. The Victoria Cross for bringing word of the successful landings at Dede back to Portsmouth.

00:56:03.000 --> 00:56:24.000
So yeah, that was a children's book. so I ended up I've done 3 stories Now one about a cat, a pigeon and a bear
 

00:00:34.000 --> 00:00:37.000
So. this is the wolf in your dog, which little presentation.

00:00:37.000 --> 00:00:46.000
I've written very brief run down of how much wolf there is still is is in the modern dog really.

00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:58.000
So we've got a wolf here and a dog. You can tell them apart very easily, and the reason we can do that is because of the changes from the evolutionary.

00:00:58.000 --> 00:01:01.000
You know, ancestor of the wolf into the modern dog.

00:01:01.000 --> 00:01:06.000
So we have almond shaped eyes on the wolf and stick up ears.

00:01:06.000 --> 00:01:13.000
A long muscle, a particular, you know, texture and type of fur on the dog.

00:01:13.000 --> 00:01:26.000
You see they're rounded eyes and there's a there's a 2 colour eye in this dog floppy ears, different colours, different texture, and type of fur so we can all tell a wolf from a

00:01:26.000 --> 00:01:43.000
dog these days, but they are essentially the same animal. inside so let's have a look how So people a lot of people consider a dog a subspecies of grey wolf. so Canis lupus familiaris is the domestic dog

00:01:43.000 --> 00:01:49.000
the modern dog. They only differ from wolves very, very slightly.

00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:54.000
So 1.8% of their genes differ that's all.

00:01:54.000 --> 00:02:05.000
But it is worth noting. You know that that we share a lot of genes with animal other animals, as well so, although it doesn't sound like much at all.

00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:08.000
It just does make quite a lot of difference. nonetheless.

00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:18.000
So the Grey Wolf today the grey wolf that we know today evolved about 2.7 to 3,000,000 years ago.

00:02:18.000 --> 00:02:24.000
So the dog didn't appear the dog proper that we recognized today.

00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:31.000
Modern dog until about 15,000 years ago. but there are some new studies.

00:02:31.000 --> 00:02:37.000
That's just it's possible that there was something like a dog up to 135,000 years ago.

00:02:37.000 --> 00:02:43.000
But they are the only solid evidence that we have is for 15,000 years ago.

00:02:43.000 --> 00:02:58.000
Really So dogs and wolves are close closely related enough to breed together, and you can see this in the coloration of a black wolf, because you don't get black wolves.

00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:09.000
If you see a black wolf, at all it's because it's bred at some point with a dog, it's some point in its ancestry, it's spread with a dog because the black coloration is not

00:03:09.000 --> 00:03:19.000
seen in pure wolf so breeding with domestic dogs is is relatively common.

00:03:19.000 --> 00:03:31.000
They don't will since seek out dogs to breed with but if they come across them often enough, and there aren't enough other wolves about, they will we'll boot together quite readily.

00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:49.000
So it's possible that wolves were rather domesticated in lots of places that different times there was one main domestication event, followed by you know, several sort of 1,000 years of of add mixture, which is you know, dogs and

00:03:49.000 --> 00:03:55.000
wolves breeding together. and again. the data is a bit woolly on that.

00:03:55.000 --> 00:04:03.000
We don't know how many times wolves and humans got together and initiated domestication.

00:04:03.000 --> 00:04:10.000
So here's some dogs you can see there's an enormous differences.

00:04:10.000 --> 00:04:13.000
Big floppy ears, different coloured fur, you know.

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Smooth coats, hairy coats, little tiny dogs with squashed up faces.

00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:27.000
You know, long-legged, really fast little dogs that are very, very light boned, and so on.

00:04:27.000 --> 00:04:38.000
But they are all the same basic structure and build. They may not look like it, but scales speaking, and so so so on.

00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:43.000
There are the same inside, but they do vary quite a bit from wolves in.

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I've seen their body forms. We humans have bred dogs for you know lots of reasons, you know.

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Things that people have found a appealing. So fighting dogs for examples have sort of short-ish muscles.

00:04:59.000 --> 00:05:04.000
The bridge with really good bike power, would belong to their opponents.

00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:09.000
You get those dogs with really, really crinkly wrinkled faces?

00:05:09.000 --> 00:05:17.000
This is something that allows other other dogs to sort of grab a mouthful of wrinkles, if you like, without really injuring.

00:05:17.000 --> 00:05:20.000
You know minor injuries to the face, if you like.

00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:27.000
These kind of really wrinkly dogs also. you know, filters blood away from the eyes.

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The trap sent molecules so sniffing dogs have lots of wrinkles, and they can lose heat better through the surface area of the all those wrinkled bits of face.

00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:43.000
A dog. Dogs tend to be sort of, you know, big and muscular.

00:05:43.000 --> 00:05:48.000
They don't have great Stamina for running or anything because they don't need to anymore.

00:05:48.000 --> 00:05:57.000
Wolves can run for a very long time. wolves can run at top speed for about mile, which, in terms of K.

00:05:57.000 --> 00:06:14.000
9. stana is amazing. but guarding dogs can't really run fast or far, but they don't need to, because we've bred them, for you know, guarding and we feed them in a afternoon excuse me so all kinds of

00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:30.000
domestic dog have been created. you know which kids with all kinds of adaptations from the initial kind of wolf body and wolf form and we've you know we've held on to all the the characteristics

00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:48.000
that we liked, or one did, for various reasons. So this is a picture of a dog, as you probably know, if you've got a dog who has rolled in something vaulting, and has it looks very very happy about it.

00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:55.000
Dogs really love novel smells, and they will often roll about in them and come home covered in.

00:06:55.000 --> 00:07:01.000
You know fox or badger, or whatever and these are the things that we kind of wish they wouldn't do.

00:07:01.000 --> 00:07:06.000
But this is very wolfy. This is a wolf trait rolling in a novel scent.

00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:11.000
Taking it back to the pack. you know game look what I found you know.

00:07:11.000 --> 00:07:16.000
Here's a really interesting smell. Oh, possibly to cover the scent of dog as well.

00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:21.000
So it's all covers up the fact that they've been there.

00:07:21.000 --> 00:07:28.000
But you see lots of wolf behaviours still in the the modern dog body postures.

00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:32.000
Some of the facial expressions and ear positions, and so on.

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And obviously things like that, you know the play bow as you'll be familiar if you've got a dog when they're playing or play biting, or whatever they'll do this kind of exaggerated bow with the front legs

00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:51.000
down and the back legs up, which is a strong indication let me know.

00:07:51.000 --> 00:07:58.000
I'm playing with you dogs and walls do that in exactly the same way, Oops.

00:07:58.000 --> 00:08:13.000
Sorry I jumped to slide so we have a this concept of neotany with dogs.

00:08:13.000 --> 00:08:17.000
We keep dogs them. Obviously they're puppies when we get them.

00:08:17.000 --> 00:08:22.000
They grow into adults as obviously, but they tend to in terms of comparison to a wolf.

00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:25.000
They retain a lot of juvenile behaviour and morphology.

00:08:25.000 --> 00:08:31.000
And this is what we call Neiltony staying playful.

00:08:31.000 --> 00:08:46.000
Staying needy, you know, and adult direction that in terms of from the adults being the humans, the dog owners. puppy proportions, puppy facial characteristics which humans find appealing you know this there's

00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:52.000
nothing cuter than a puppy face, but a lot of adult dogs retainer a poppy like face as well like, you know.

00:08:52.000 --> 00:09:08.000
Think of pugs and sausage dogs, and that kind of dog wagging tails, you know, playing with toys, running for a ball, and fetching things like that being very strongly tied to family members you know that

00:09:08.000 --> 00:09:13.000
human family. I mean all the things about domestic dogs that we love.

00:09:13.000 --> 00:09:20.000
I think as humans are, They domestic dogs don't have you know they don't need to hunt for food.

00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:24.000
They, they don't need to necessarily run long distances or you know.

00:09:24.000 --> 00:09:28.000
Be particularly skilful or strong or good at problem solving, or whatever.

00:09:28.000 --> 00:09:35.000
But they have you know Well, they've sort of shrugged off the need to survive.

00:09:35.000 --> 00:09:45.000
You know, the the instincts to survive. what they have taken on us are more social ties and more social skills, different social skills.

00:09:45.000 --> 00:09:58.000
Wolves are very socially skilled but they're socially skilled with other wolves, both done if one which is being very highly socially skilled with another species, which is humans, and that's that's

00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:12.000
the amazing thing about dogs really I think that they've been able to across the the species barrier in terms of sociality which other animals have not done, not as much, anyway.

00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:33.000
Not all animals. So if you have a look at working dogs you see individual wolf behaviours which humans have chosen on purpose and is selected aren't bred them in territoriality, so that's what

00:10:33.000 --> 00:10:51.000
you want in a good guard dog, a guard of that that wants to guard a property or a space, a scent dog who's, you know, incredibly good at scenting incredibly good at following a smell We use these dogs to sniff out

00:10:51.000 --> 00:10:56.000
drugs and money, and all sorts of things don't we now, even medically.

00:10:56.000 --> 00:11:01.000
You know, dogs have been trained to to send cancer cells, and so on.

00:11:01.000 --> 00:11:11.000
These are all things that wolves can do but we have chosen them in dogs in such a way that they don't really do anything else.

00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:23.000
So, for example, a guard dog is territorial it barks when it sees people or strangers coming in, and that's what you want for a guard dog of you to warn you that someone's coming.

00:11:23.000 --> 00:11:28.000
But they don't do a lot else. no so they've chosen that skill from wolves.

00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:33.000
But but guard dogs you know didn't run long distances they don't hunt.

00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:41.000
They don't you know do many wolf behaviours beyond the barking and guarding and territoriality.

00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:49.000
So what we've done is select traits and then remove the dogs need to have any other sort of warfare traits.

00:11:49.000 --> 00:11:56.000
Really so. Guard dogs don't do much more than God whereas obviously wolves do all of these behaviours as a natural.

00:11:56.000 --> 00:12:08.000
And all living in the wild. So this is a hunting dog on point. Oops.

00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:13.000
Gosh! I am skipped a slide again touching the mouse.

00:12:13.000 --> 00:12:29.000
This is a dog on point. so this this dog has been bred and selected for this habit of raising a pool, sticking the tail out, nose towards the prey, indicating where it is but without actually lunging

00:12:29.000 --> 00:12:37.000
forward and getting it so it's an indicator rather than a hunter, as it were, very specific behaviour.

00:12:37.000 --> 00:12:46.000
Wolves don't do pointing by the way This is something that only dogs really do, and humans have picked up that, you know.

00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:50.000
If you get a dog that does a bit of pointing, and you breed it with other dogs at point.

00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:55.000
The you end up with a breed like like this one a pointer dog!

00:12:55.000 --> 00:13:04.000
You have a sight-handed or see their bread for their good vision, ability to detect movement.

00:13:04.000 --> 00:13:08.000
Usually they're usually good at detecting things that are running running away.

00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:14.000
Really, you know, closely following a scent trail like a bloodhound.

00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:24.000
That kind of thing again selected especially for human use by via you know the breeding of domestication.

00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:32.000
It's it's very probable that the first things that human sol in wolves I thought would be really useful and helpful.

00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:41.000
But their ability to hunt, and their guarding and warning skills because wolf's are very good at those obviously very, very good hunters.

00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:50.000
I'm very good at warning you know looking at pups and warning when strangers approach or other wolves approach, or whatever.

00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:59.000
So there's a probably the things that humans went for first and they came into proximity with wolves.

00:13:59.000 --> 00:14:08.000
Could stop, they actually feeling if you wanted if there are any questions at that point.

00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:25.000
Yes, we've got one from Eunice you talked sort of quite near the start when we were looking at the first picture of the wolf of the dog together that the shape of the eyes had changed or it's different and Eunice is asking

00:14:25.000 --> 00:14:31.000
How How did that change happen? I don't know if you can enlighten us a little bit about that, I think.

00:14:31.000 --> 00:14:44.000
That's a very good question and I think the answer is that it's simply a side effect of selecting other attributes, and it's had the side effect of changing the eye shape.

00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:53.000
I don't think that was necessarily something that humans chose selected It's a side effect of other other points of breeding.

00:14:53.000 --> 00:15:03.000
If you like, in the same way that you know, if we, if we choose, dogs with very crinkled up muzzles, crinkle up faces like pugs.

00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:08.000
You will say that the side effect of they tend to have breathing problems.

00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:19.000
They look, cute they look sort of wrinkly and cute and you know, quite unusual, and have boggly eyes, don't they sort of gofish eyes, but they have troubles breathing it's a side effect it's

00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:26.000
not something that humans wanted, but it comes along with a very squint squashed up face.

00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:33.000
I think the eye shapes the same. Ok. But not another question here from Anne.

00:15:33.000 --> 00:15:40.000
You were talking about hunting dogs in point. Could you just explain what that means?

00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:44.000
What is pointing. Yeah, sure, this this do on this slide.

00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:51.000
Here is in point and what he's doing is he sends very good sense of smell.

00:15:51.000 --> 00:16:07.000
He scented the prey. A bird probably, in this case a pheasant or something like that, and his reaction to scenting the prey is to lift a leg in the direction of the prey and keep his head forward so the

00:16:07.000 --> 00:16:12.000
nose, they will say the nose points to the prey. straight out.

00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:18.000
Tail is at the back of the prey to, so that the praiser was ford of the dog.

00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:34.000
And some dogs do this when they see something interesting they lift a leg, and they'll point their head towards it. and it's that tendency that humans have picked up on and thought well that's really useful I could you know if I see

00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:45.000
a dog doing that, i'll know that there's you know a bird in the next bushes, or whatever and that's what it's telling you that that there's a bird or whatever is your hunting It's nearby

00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:50.000
you What they don't do is lunge forward eat the and kill the prey.

00:16:50.000 --> 00:16:55.000
Eat it, because you don't want that you actually want you know them to just show you where it is.

00:16:55.000 --> 00:17:02.000
Really don't you so unusually you know given that this is a subspecies of wolf this animal here.

00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:20.000
It doesn't act, hunt, or take prey itself is it. the result of thousands of years generations and generations of dogs who may have had a slight tendency to lift a leg when they saw prey and humans have thought well I want that dog that does

00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:26.000
that and bread them together, and eventually genetically speaking you get a dog who's habit.

00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:31.000
It is to do that when they sniff the prey but they never go and attack it.

00:17:31.000 --> 00:17:37.000
But that's that's kind of been bred out of them that the tendency to kill and eat and what they find.

00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:49.000
Sorry I keep doing that. Okay, and We've got some more questions. And this is a question from what Miranda do.

00:17:49.000 --> 00:17:53.000
Some dogs still have pointy up ears I guess subdue don't they?

00:17:53.000 --> 00:17:59.000
They do that's right of course and in some cases you know other parts.

00:17:59.000 --> 00:18:08.000
The other breeds. sorry if dog have had floppy ears, and then people have decided I wanted them pointing, and actually had them operated on to stick them back up again.

00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:14.000
Haven't they ear pinning you know and so on which is not legal anymore.

00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:20.000
It's it's not considered ethical but Yes, of course there are breeds with pointy up here.

00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:35.000
Still. You know lots that the breed various breeding habits, you know you have full pointy ears, or little ears or ears that flop down, or enormous ears that touch the ground so ear sort of

00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:42.000
positioning and type is again something that humans have chosen in certain breed types isn't it.

00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:55.000
So if you have a you know a basset hound what you what you're looking for, there, if you like breeds of dog as his ears that touch the ground, and if you having a you know with a doberman, you

00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:59.000
want more pointy up being as I guess don't you the particular look of the dog.

00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:02.000
But yeah, of course, you get pointy up ears.

00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:11.000
Yeah, Yeah, Okay, and right, we have a couple of other questions which I think we've probably just about got time for it.

00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:19.000
And this is a question from Angela she's saying there seems to be a trend in feeding dogs raw meat, as Will stood originally.

00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:38.000
The science support the trend that's a good good question I think wolves definitely eat more meat. but you have to remember that that as evolution moves on domestication has changed the the the wolf into a

00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:53.000
dog. it's, also changed the way the at least partially the way that the gut functions, too. so dogs will happily eat raw meat, but they're also happily processed meat in the form of you know

00:19:53.000 --> 00:20:05.000
dried feeds, and so on. so I I I can't see any particular benefit to raw feeding compared to any other kind of feeding.

00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:12.000
I think the key is is a varied diet It's it's probably very boring for a doctor.

00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:20.000
You a bowl of exactly the same food every single meal and I think it's easy to forget that dogs like all kinds of food.

00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:32.000
There are omnivorous really you know their leak fruit and vegetables, and you know all kinds of cereals and all kinds of meats, so I don't see any advantage to do it being a raw meat

00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:39.000
diet per se But as research moves on in nutrition, I may be proved wrong on that.

00:20:39.000 --> 00:20:44.000
I guess. Okay, and right we'll do one more question and then we'll move on.

00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:48.000
But rest assured everybody will get to the the rest of the questions at the end.

00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:54.000
No, this is a question from elizabeth and she's saying, it's interesting.

00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:58.000
Her dog behavior has become so specialized regarding human needs.

00:20:58.000 --> 00:21:06.000
Is there any difference in brain structure? So I guess that's between dog and and wolf?

00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:12.000
Sure in terms of in gross terms there isn't very much difference at all.

00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:20.000
But it would be equally I could say that the brain of a chimpanzee, and a human doesn't differ very much at all, either.

00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:27.000
So the similarity is kind of along those lines, because humans and chimpanzees are also divided by less than 2%.

00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:38.000
Dna. What is different is how much of the brain is voted social activity.

00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:53.000
How much of the frontal cortex that's the front of the brain, the forehead, If you like how much of that cortex is is used in social behaviors, how much is it as devoted to bonding

00:21:53.000 --> 00:22:00.000
and attachment, and there's a greater level of activity in those parts of the brain.

00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:06.000
It's very difficult to assign bits of brain to function.

00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:18.000
You know, even if you do a brain scan you can't sort of get all look there's you know there's the bit that does this, and there's a bit that does that because brains don't work in

00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:21.000
that way, you know they don't have separate little chunks it's completely interrelated.

00:22:21.000 --> 00:22:39.000
Body of neuronal tissue so it's it's a difficult question to answer, but dogs have attributed more brain power. Shall I say to some social aspects of life that wolves don't use Okay, right I

00:22:39.000 --> 00:22:46.000
think we'll move move on no Joanne and as I say we'll get to the list of the questions at the end.

00:22:46.000 --> 00:23:07.000
Everybody. Okay, thank you. So if humans observing wolves in the wild, you know our ancestral past, remember in an evolutionary time moves very slowly.

00:23:07.000 --> 00:23:15.000
So thousands of years ago, 15,000 years ago, we have evidence of the first actual dogs.

00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:24.000
So the process of domestication would have started long before that, because 15,000 years ago is the first evidence of dogs.

00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:30.000
Obviously they didn't pop out out of nowhere so the process began long, long before that.

00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:43.000
So if humans had spotted behaviours, in wolves that they thought would be really useful, that really good hunters, and they're really good guards, and they're you know the good at giving warnings How How would

00:23:43.000 --> 00:23:51.000
you begin to take a wolf and think I like those attributes, and how would you make them into an animal that you can actually share your home with?

00:23:51.000 --> 00:24:05.000
You know your family life with. So if I go to the next slide, you can see this is a cave painting from a cave in France.

00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:13.000
I believe depicting clearly depicting humans and some kind of bovine animal.

00:24:13.000 --> 00:24:30.000
Here is one of the very first known images of what must be a dog, and I say must be a dog, because it has a curly tail, and wolves never have curly tails. short proper worlds Wild wolves never

00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:36.000
have code tails. So this has to be a dog we can see as well.

00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:51.000
From this image. it's got quite long legs it looks like a good runner, quite a slim body, but with a quite a big rib cage, so a big sort of hollow, if you like where the organs contain the

00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:59.000
heart. probably a very good runner, was long, long, slender legs, the long, slender muzzle as well.

00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:03.000
No sign of big floppy ears. here. these are little tiny pointers.

00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:13.000
If you look seriously. So we we have to assume that the first dogs look something like this, because it's it's the first bit of evidence that we have.

00:25:13.000 --> 00:25:19.000
There may be other other parts of evidence that we don't yet have we haven't seen yet, but a curly tail on a cave.

00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:24.000
Painting must be a dog, cause you don't get curly tails on wolves.

00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:33.000
I think it's really interesting, so why did wolves become dogs, as it were.

00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:45.000
Again it's a difficult question so there's a lot of different ase about this and the answer to this Why lose you know why?

00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:56.000
And how would you lose wild reactions to humans? And have this formation of really strong bonds and devotion that we see in dogs today?

00:25:56.000 --> 00:26:03.000
Because it is a and unusually strong bond, such that you only see in.

00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:08.000
You know mothers and offspring of, you know parents and offspring.

00:26:08.000 --> 00:26:24.000
To be honest. Excuse me so. The probable start of this process is that humans were novel to wolves.

00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:28.000
Wolves found humans interesting rather than the other way around.

00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:38.000
So the humans, with the novel environmental fact it's unlikely that humans could have made wolves come to them because they're very dangerous.

00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:46.000
Much bigger animals than they are today. Even and I think humans would have actually been on the menu rather than

00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:53.000
You know the notion that they might be somebody you'd like to bond with, or be a family member with.

00:26:53.000 --> 00:27:01.000
So it must be more likely that the curiosity of the wolf brought them closer to humans rather than human curiosity.

00:27:01.000 --> 00:27:07.000
Taking them close to wolves. The danger would be very great at that time.

00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:20.000
In the the evolutionary past. So the first stage, the relationship between dogs and all the wolves and humans, he became dogs was probably that wolves found humans quite interesting.

00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:40.000
Apart from anything else, they would have, left food remains and although wolves are not naturally scavengers in in terms of stress, it's they would, you know, seek out any any possible food stuff that they could

00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:47.000
and human settlements might will have had, you know, food remains around that they could just scab in Job.

00:27:47.000 --> 00:28:00.000
So here again, this is another cave painting again. you see the curled over turn, which we don't see in a wolf.

00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:11.000
Took quite a long lucky body isn't it with that fairly long legs, long snout, and again we still got the little pointy ears.

00:28:11.000 --> 00:28:18.000
We don't have any flop years yet we don't have any, you know, unusual body form or anything at this point.

00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:24.000
This is about 15 I would tell I think it's about 12,000 years old.

00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:37.000
This painting. So the wolf at the dog sorry at that point still looked very wealthy, that'd say to

00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:42.000
So the chances are must be the chances are because we don't absolutely know this.

00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:49.000
The process was probably determined by by the wolves.

00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:54.000
They pre-existing flexibility and adaptation?

00:28:54.000 --> 00:29:00.000
You know, changing environments, Wolves are very good at keeping with change.

00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:13.000
So they've moved for example into cities fairly easily. they've changed how they hunt for food, you know they'll they'll hunt livestock if it's available.

00:29:13.000 --> 00:29:19.000
Sometimes and it's very different hunting process hunting a sheep or a cow.

00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:22.000
Very different hunting process to hunting something that runs very fast.

00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:32.000
She and cows don't run very fast at all so they are absolutely sitting ducks for the war.

00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:44.000
So they wills are very adaptable. They can change their habits, their behaviours, and how they exist, if you like, in human settlements.

00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:53.000
So the chances are the ancestral wolf had this tendency to, and so was able to change its behaviour slightly.

00:29:53.000 --> 00:30:00.000
Maybe follow humans around a little bit to benefit from the food scraps that they left.

00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:10.000
But humans would only be one factor at this time. it wouldn't just be humans that caused changes in the wolf.

00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:22.000
There would have been other factors. Evolution tends to work in favour of things that help animals to survive, and long enough to reproduce.

00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:31.000
So anything that makes survival more likely, and reproduction more likely, is going to continue into the subsequent generations.

00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:35.000
So you know, let's say there's a harsh harsh winters.

00:30:35.000 --> 00:30:43.000
If they could exist by living on the scraps left by humans and follow humans around a little bit to get extra little bits of food.

00:30:43.000 --> 00:30:54.000
They probably lived longer, they probably reproduced slightly better. So there was an advantage in terms of evolution as an advantage to following humans around a little bit.

00:30:54.000 --> 00:31:08.000
In in half times. and then as soon as people for reason had some kind of wolf in their midst, if you like.

00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:16.000
Then the process of domestication where humans would choose the wolves that were gentle and didn't bite them, you know.

00:31:16.000 --> 00:31:23.000
Perhaps Hadn't a slightly unusual fur texture maybe had you know a nice temperament, you know.

00:31:23.000 --> 00:31:29.000
Humans would have chosen the wolves that had things they liked and bred them together.

00:31:29.000 --> 00:31:46.000
And then, hopefully, the next generation would there be a little bit more placid and have a little bit more unusual fur, or maybe a different color, and eventually things like floppy ears would come short muscles curly for

00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:52.000
curly tails. You know all the things that have changed from the wolf to the dog.

00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:56.000
These are things that humans would have chosen in those in slight forms.

00:31:56.000 --> 00:32:04.000
You know a wolf that was slightly different, slightly different color, slightly less aggressive.

00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:19.000
That kind of thing. So it's very slow process remember evolution So these are images of wolves and ravens.

00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:26.000
Some of you might know that whatever you have wolves, you have ravens.

00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:31.000
They tend to. ravens and wolves hang about together quite a lot. you can see here.

00:32:31.000 --> 00:32:40.000
This is a wolf on a kill. Lots of ravens nicking little bits of food, but the wolves never ever take advantage of the fact.

00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:46.000
The ravens. They never kill them, and they're never pouncing them and kill them because they have a mutualistic relationship.

00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:53.000
If ravens see something, some prey, they fly about overhead.

00:32:53.000 --> 00:33:04.000
They indicate to wolves that there's prey beneath them, and then the wolf will go down. maybe rip open a carcass or kill whatever it is That's there. and then the ravens benefit

00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:13.000
as well. So they have a mutualistic relationship again. This is a wolf tendency to set up mutualistic relationships.

00:33:13.000 --> 00:33:23.000
It's part of the social habit of rules it is possible, Raymond, I should say Raisins very intelligent birds.

00:33:23.000 --> 00:33:32.000
It is possible that both began such a mutualistic relationship with humans in the same way that they do with ravens today.

00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:39.000
So so humans again might follow wolves around a little bit because they would follow prey.

00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:51.000
Wolves might have followed humans around a little bit, because sometimes they had prey and bits of food left over, and at some point you can see how the 2 might come together.

00:33:51.000 --> 00:34:03.000
So wolves chasing prey. if humans were there at the same point that the prey was taken down, humans are probably able to kill that prey a bit quicker than the wolves could.

00:34:03.000 --> 00:34:10.000
The walls would avoid injury. Humans would kill it and then you know you'd both benefit.

00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:24.000
They would both get a bit of that kill and it's likely given what we know about hope hunter gatherer and tribal cultures today.

00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:33.000
Even it's like that. this kind of mutualism occurred because humans are very social wolves are very social.

00:34:33.000 --> 00:34:41.000
We vote we're both very good at taking advantage of the cues and indicators in the environment that are more likely to help us to survive.

00:34:41.000 --> 00:34:47.000
So chances are we set up a mutualistic relationship with wolves.

00:34:47.000 --> 00:34:51.000
And it's really difficult to work out which way round that might have happened.

00:34:51.000 --> 00:34:56.000
It's possible that it just came together because we're both hunting species.

00:34:56.000 --> 00:35:05.000
But again fairly slowly. So, you know, evolution moves very slowly.

00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:10.000
These changes happened over thousands of years, not not over a couple of years at all.

00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:22.000
So very soprano process so it's you know here's the adoring face of a modern dog.

00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:34.000
You see the absolute focus in the eyes round eyes again, flop years I've said this one coloration that you don't see in a wolf.

00:35:34.000 --> 00:35:38.000
Is this very kind of whitey, you know, pet cream colour.

00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:46.000
This is this is what we like. is this kind of facial expression is what we like.

00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:52.000
The this kind of adoration. Oh, sorry you keep doing that adoration.

00:35:52.000 --> 00:36:12.000
Oops. So I bet that sorry that's me leaning on the mass pass side.

00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:18.000
So this bond that we see this is this facial expression that we like so much.

00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:27.000
The of the evil research indicates today that that dogs can actually judge facial expressions of humans.

00:36:27.000 --> 00:36:33.000
They can tell the difference between lots of different facial expressions and body postures and body language.

00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:41.000
Despite the fact, there are completely different species, and they have to translate, You know their body to your body, and so on.

00:36:41.000 --> 00:36:48.000
So, for example, they walk on fall legs, we walk on 2 legs.

00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:52.000
So when we use an arm, you know what's the dog actually doing there?

00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:59.000
Was he thinking was that he's using a front leg or Was he able to work out that you humans only walk on 2 legs?

00:36:59.000 --> 00:37:10.000
It's actually a complex cognitive task you know dogs are actually in translating what human body posture and body language actually means.

00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:21.000
So we've chosen in the past we've chosen things like colour temperament, and you know size.

00:37:21.000 --> 00:37:29.000
Let's say probably floppy ears long fur short, for whatever you know, attributes we were after.

00:37:29.000 --> 00:37:40.000
But in the process of choosing those body parts or those bits, colours whatever, because lots of attributes are poly genetic.

00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:46.000
They're governed by more than one gene obviously they're governed by lots and lots of genes.

00:37:46.000 --> 00:37:52.000
What we've inadvertently also bred in lots of other side effects.

00:37:52.000 --> 00:38:13.000
Lots of other behaviours and abilities. so What we have probably bred in is this sociality, this disability to read the human face, the human body to set up a meaningful relationship with another social species, even though we're completely

00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:27.000
different, you know. very, very different. in Some ways you might expect this sort of relationship to for the humans and chimpanzees an animal that's very, very similar, because dogs and humans are very very different species.

00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:39.000
We've only really started you know this whole kind of breed champions and you know animals breed types.

00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:47.000
They've got to be this colour this size, this shape you know they've got 12 ears that do this and the nose must only be this long and so on.

00:38:47.000 --> 00:38:55.000
All these criteria set down by there's an you know club dog clubs, and so on.

00:38:55.000 --> 00:38:59.000
There's only actually happened in about the last 400 years.

00:38:59.000 --> 00:39:08.000
Before that breeding, you know actual what we call today breeds of dog wasn't wasn't really something that humans did.

00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:12.000
What humans did before. That was just breeding things that they wanted.

00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:18.000
So you know a nice colour the right size. you know.

00:39:18.000 --> 00:39:25.000
Nice temperament, good at hunting or you know good at guarding or whatever it was that you chose.

00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:31.000
It's only in the last 400 years we've actually started the whole breed business.

00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:39.000
If you like. and people, you know, spend amounts of money on on.

00:39:39.000 --> 00:39:52.000
You know what we call breeds of dog now don't They somebody told me the other day that they paid £5,000 for mit Ctl, and for you know a pure bred golden retriever. and I said well, there's

00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:56.000
no such thing Really, you know not the most popular thing i've ever said to be honest.

00:39:56.000 --> 00:40:09.000
But It's True, you know breeds are human constructions, you know they you know they're not sort of natural animals at all.

00:40:09.000 --> 00:40:18.000
They're bread purely for whatever it is humans have chosen, and you get lots of nasty side effects with that kind of reading.

00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:32.000
As I said, dna dogs with short faces like pugs have breeded breathing problems. talks with really really wrinkled skin have skin problems, don't they?

00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:39.000
It's pretty well known, you know animals Alsatians have hip problems, and so on.

00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:49.000
And these are these are not breading on purpose. This is just, you know, on wanted side effects of breeding for other things in reading, for colour and size.

00:40:49.000 --> 00:41:03.000
And you know visual type, and so on but they're all, some dog breeds even today there are still really very wealthy. Aren't.

00:41:03.000 --> 00:41:12.000
There. So for my mind the what that works called the primitive breeds are the ones that look most wealthy.

00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:15.000
Is it ironic that they're called the primitive breeds?

00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:25.000
I always think so huskies and malamutes look less like dogs are more like wolves really don't know they're they really retain a warfare.

00:41:25.000 --> 00:41:38.000
Look, and that's that's why they're so popular today. because there's a you know a big following of course lots of people absolutely love wolves, and you know i'm one of them so if we have a

00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:48.000
look chosen huskies and malamutes, because just to illustrate that, despite the fact, they look very similar, and they look very wolfy.

00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:58.000
They can be completely different. kinds of animals, so and you know appearances can be deceptive, is really one saying here on the next slide.

00:41:58.000 --> 00:42:10.000
So you've got that's a husky this one's a malamute as a husky that side Malam is side.

00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:16.000
The so very similar, very healthy looking. I think you can tell the difference.

00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:22.000
But they've got very sort of similar attributes I think so.

00:42:22.000 --> 00:42:27.000
The similarities of those 2 types of dog they're both really friendly with people.

00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:32.000
They're really people oriented they seek out people more than they see her.

00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:39.000
Other dogs actually they have a double layered coat so they're both really good at enduring the cold.

00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:46.000
They shed their fur twice a year in like enormous handfuls.

00:42:46.000 --> 00:42:51.000
People actually, you know, save all the fur and spin it and make it into clothing.

00:42:51.000 --> 00:42:57.000
And also of these breeds and the really high energy.

00:42:57.000 --> 00:43:05.000
They need lots and lots of exercise. every single day. Otherwise they you know they start to rip up the house and do all kinds of damage.

00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:17.000
They're really high prey drive which means that they will chase if they don't have appropriate prey to chase, they'll they'll just chase whatever moves really and that could be cats or

00:43:17.000 --> 00:43:35.000
bicycles or cars you know ever and because of that they can't easily be kept with other pets, small pets, especially the fairies like you know, rabbit and things they naturally just kill those they

00:43:35.000 --> 00:43:41.000
need a strong owner who they respect and fight by that I don't mean

00:43:41.000 --> 00:43:49.000
The old-fashioned sense of anyone who's you know dominant to for them, and you know punishes them or harms them in any way.

00:43:49.000 --> 00:44:03.000
That's That's not what I mean at all a strong owner is just somebody who's very consistent that you know the dog is very clear how how how life works and so on this there's a routine.

00:44:03.000 --> 00:44:16.000
Some things are not allowed and so on so that's that's what I mean by a strong owner, and then, when I say not allowed I mean things likeising people and ripping up the the furniture it's not allowed you know

00:44:16.000 --> 00:44:22.000
There's kinds of things, but it's the differences that I think are most interesting.

00:44:22.000 --> 00:44:31.000
Say, Malamutes really love time with humans. huskies.

00:44:31.000 --> 00:44:36.000
Okay, they don't they're good with humans but they're completely happy to be left as well.

00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:41.000
They're independent and much more aloof than malamutes don't live very long.

00:44:41.000 --> 00:44:48.000
They have much more health problems that they look similar. But a Malamute is a much less robust animal.

00:44:48.000 --> 00:44:53.000
Husky is a sort of pack family member, if you like.

00:44:53.000 --> 00:45:05.000
And Malamute is like one person they tend to latch on to one person. Have a bond there, I mean it's much bigger and heavier, although physically, you know, to look at.

00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:13.000
They look similar sizes. Malamutes are much, have much heavier, thicker bones, so there might be similar in size, as it were.

00:45:13.000 --> 00:45:23.000
But the build is very different. Dusk is a light and fast husky stuff to live with people, but other dogs as well.

00:45:23.000 --> 00:45:30.000
Mala meets perfectly happy just to stay with humans huskies tend to live longer.

00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:36.000
They don't have many health problems and some people it's difficult one.

00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:43.000
This is difficult to test, but some people think the huskies are much more intelligent and cunning compared to Malamutes, who were considered a little bit dopey.

00:45:43.000 --> 00:46:03.000
So I've just chosen those 2 indicate really how, however wolfy and similar, you know, some dogs may look, they've actually lost quiet a lot of wolf traits and wolf abilities, and they even

00:46:03.000 --> 00:46:07.000
differ between each other, even though they're the same subspecies of wolf.

00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:18.000
There are very different attributes because of domestication, and how people have chosen to breed particular things in and breed out other things.

00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:25.000
So one of the things, for example, is this little, this shape, here, this heart shapes or forehead.

00:46:25.000 --> 00:46:43.000
The fur somebody somewhere has thought that that's nice and that's kind of that's a desirable attribute attribute rather the that nice little kind of eyebrow shape there, and the pay lines somewhere in the

00:46:43.000 --> 00:46:52.000
ancestral past dog wolf let's say would have been born, perhaps, with one blue eye, and humans immediately being humans sort of were like that.

00:46:52.000 --> 00:46:58.000
That's unusual and nice and try and get another one of those breath, those together.

00:46:58.000 --> 00:47:05.000
They are unusual and nice. We know we like novelty Don't we like different things?

00:47:05.000 --> 00:47:22.000
So whatever actually happened in terms of you know how did humans and wolves come together and have this incredible bond and social shared social.

00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:29.000
So. shall it's a fascinating subject is fascinating process.

00:47:29.000 --> 00:47:35.000
I think, domestication. it causes all kinds of changes that were never intended.

00:47:35.000 --> 00:47:42.000
There's tired effects of being lots of traits being poly genetic, having have been governed by lots and lots of different genes.

00:47:42.000 --> 00:47:57.000
Not just one gene but if you have a little bit of wolfy knowledge and dog knowledge, and you realize you know where you're you know where some of your dogs behaviors are coming from, think you can probably

00:47:57.000 --> 00:48:09.000
appreciate the similarities and the differences, because I think dogs are an amazing novel animal, and they are the most popular pet in in the Uk.

00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:14.000
So that you know we are dog lovers. We really are a nation of dog lovers.

00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:20.000
So on this slide. Obviously, this is half a wolf, half a dog.

00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:24.000
You can see the differences. This is a wolf.

00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:28.000
You see the old mandy eyes point up ears.

00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:34.000
The coat that's familiar, familiar coloration and first kind there.

00:48:34.000 --> 00:48:39.000
But these on this side are wolf dog hybrids.

00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:50.000
I think if you look closely, you can see that they are can't you, you can see this this kind of half dog, half wolf, and this one, too.

00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:55.000
These are fairly popular, these half, you know. dog dog, hype.

00:48:55.000 --> 00:49:02.000
Sorry wolf hybrids fairly popular in America and that extraordinarily dangerous.

00:49:02.000 --> 00:49:09.000
So don't be tempted ever because they are neither wolves nor dogs. They're really unpredictable.

00:49:09.000 --> 00:49:15.000
They find themselves. you know. unsure of how to behave in the social situation.

00:49:15.000 --> 00:49:22.000
They find themselves in people's, houses, and so on So yeah, these wolf dog hybrids are another matter.

00:49:22.000 --> 00:49:31.000
Another matter altogether. very far cry from the sort of domesticated dog evolved from walls.

00:49:31.000 --> 00:49:39.000
These these half and half animals, you know we we don't fully understand although they're very really quite popular in some places.

00:49:39.000 --> 00:49:52.000
But I wouldn't have that is the end there for you to say if there are any more questions that would be fine. Yeah, thanks so much for that.

00:49:52.000 --> 00:49:59.000
I don't know if you want to stop shooting we can we can see you again, and yes, we've got quite a lot of questions actually.

00:49:59.000 --> 00:50:02.000
So i'm just gonna launch and that was really really fascinating.

00:50:02.000 --> 00:50:12.000
And now let me just start from the top you see we've got lots of questions right.

00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:26.000
But here we are, so it's. so picking up from where we left off earlier. We've got a question from June, and this is a favourite subject of mine. she's talking about border collies me I used to have

00:50:26.000 --> 00:50:40.000
one of those fabulous, too, and she's asking how to board. A collies have the tendency to bring sheep together, she's saying our collie would round up humans in the evening whenever we were walking along the beach and they do do

00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:49.000
that they do. I think because wolves you know they they will hump it to hunt a hurt of animals.

00:50:49.000 --> 00:50:53.000
They will. The tendency that they have is to to work as a pack.

00:50:53.000 --> 00:51:07.000
You know the cooperative hunters and they will round up for her first, you know, so they get an indication of who's the oldest and weakest, or the you know the youngest to round them up a bit make them

00:51:07.000 --> 00:51:21.000
run around a bit and see which ones fall behind. and then those are the ones that they actually kill off, which is why people say, you know, wolves are important in the ecosystem, because they actually kill off the sick and diseased animals you know you keep

00:51:21.000 --> 00:51:29.000
keep populations healthier, and I think colleagues are, or an example of one of those wolf behaviours.

00:51:29.000 --> 00:51:40.000
You know that herding that rounding behaviour? again, some human at some point has thought, know when when farming became something that humans did.

00:51:40.000 --> 00:51:48.000
Somebody has thought that would be really handy, because actually you know, Bring them all around, bring them all together in a bunch, and that's essentially what colleagues do.

00:51:48.000 --> 00:52:01.000
So they round that you know they actually can't resist rounding things up come in. I've seen collies rounding up chickens, and you you know children and you know all kinds of animals, because they actually can't resist

00:52:01.000 --> 00:52:10.000
the grouping things together. in that way it's it's definitely a wolf behaviour that's been been carried forward in domestication.

00:52:10.000 --> 00:52:19.000
Okay, well hope that answers your question, Gin. And now a question here from Ian, and I guess we kind of possibly touched on this a little bit at the end.

00:52:19.000 --> 00:52:22.000
When you were talking about the wolf dog hybrids.

00:52:22.000 --> 00:52:32.000
Can will be domesticated. No he's a quick answer to that.

00:52:32.000 --> 00:52:39.000
Yeah, you can tame a wolf. But taming and domesticating are completely different things.

00:52:39.000 --> 00:52:43.000
So you can have a tame wolf that will come to you and eat out of your hand.

00:52:43.000 --> 00:52:48.000
Let's say you might even be able to put it on a lead and take it for a walk.

00:52:48.000 --> 00:53:06.000
But given the right stimuli that that wolf will will turn its back and not look back at you, does not need you, is perfectly capable of living independently, hunting alone, living in the wilderness, and so taming

00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:21.000
and domestication of very different domestication, takes thousands of years and changes the morphology and the genetic makeup of an animal, whereas taming only changes.

00:53:21.000 --> 00:53:33.000
Behaviour taming. is just gaining a little bit of an Animal's trust, and so that it will you know come to you in a way that it perhaps it wouldn't normally come to you.

00:53:33.000 --> 00:53:45.000
Okay, Thank you. Okay, we've got a question here from if on no, We're obviously talking about you know the modern dog descending from the Grey Wolf.

00:53:45.000 --> 00:54:02.000
If one's asking is it possible. to trace dog genetics back to the desert or timber wolf, so I didn't put the connection between the the ancestral wolf is is often put down

00:54:02.000 --> 00:54:10.000
as canis lupus oxidant tarlets the the Latin but you're absolutely right.

00:54:10.000 --> 00:54:15.000
There is some genetic lineage to the timber wolf.

00:54:15.000 --> 00:54:24.000
And also It's confusing because there are many kinds of wolf cylinder extant species which means they're still living today.

00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:31.000
We tend to think of dogs being descended from the wolf as it is today.

00:54:31.000 --> 00:54:35.000
But dogs are descended from the wolf. as it was 350.

00:54:35.000 --> 00:54:47.000
Missions years ago you know so it's not the same animal, and that's that's the difficulty, I think, said there is some some genetic in evidence.

00:54:47.000 --> 00:54:54.000
If you like, for the for the lineage of the timber wolf but it's difficulty.

00:54:54.000 --> 00:55:00.000
It's mitochondrial to its past set down only from females, from the mother's.

00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:08.000
So we have mitochondrial Dna evidence, and that obviously reduces the amount of evidence that you have, because you only have the evidence from females.

00:55:08.000 --> 00:55:15.000
So i'm not absolutely sure of the answer to that in short, but you're you're absolutely right.

00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:25.000
There is some evidence there, some genetic evidence. Okay? And there was a related question from Avon's whale, and she's talking about in India.

00:55:25.000 --> 00:55:29.000
You've got the yellow wild dog in Africa you've got wild dogs.

00:55:29.000 --> 00:55:35.000
Australia as well, and also the Us. are of these canines genetically exclusive?

00:55:35.000 --> 00:55:53.000
Or have they evolved from domestic dogs they haven't evolved from domestic dogs for sure at some point very far back they may share a common cann ancestors but actually that those what we call wild

00:55:53.000 --> 00:56:01.000
dogs sometimes. aren't really dogs at all and they you know they are their own lineage.

00:56:01.000 --> 00:56:08.000
If you like. they actually are not part of the family tree of can asleep us at all.

00:56:08.000 --> 00:56:23.000
And I the confusion. I think is in the name sometimes so for example, there's there's an African dog that called a doll, not you know. we don't know very much about the doll they're called African dogs but they're not really dogs.

00:56:23.000 --> 00:56:27.000
At all. they're they're another form of canid so.

00:56:27.000 --> 00:56:31.000
No, those those animals are not descended from dogs.

00:56:31.000 --> 00:56:42.000
And they are only just ended in the very very distant evolutionary past to other ancestral animals like the wolf very long time ago.

00:56:42.000 --> 00:56:52.000
If if there is a connection, very, very long there and this then touches on a question from Ian which is about and what's the report?

00:56:52.000 --> 00:57:02.000
What's the relationship between dogs and foxes again. Foxes are kind of look like, but they're not dogs at all.

00:57:02.000 --> 00:57:12.000
They share some attributes, they share, some, you know, appear, and you know appearance wiser anatomically, and so on.

00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:15.000
Their mammals, and you know they're social and they you know, chess.

00:57:15.000 --> 00:57:23.000
Some of those elements like, and then not dogs. foxes of foxes and dogs are dogs.

00:57:23.000 --> 00:57:34.000
They they're just similar animals in the same way that you might Say, you know something that's not related. but looks similar.

00:57:34.000 --> 00:57:43.000
They're nothing to do with each other they just have sort of similar attributes, because evolution works on solving evolutionary problems in similar ways.

00:57:43.000 --> 00:57:52.000
And so it comes up with animals that you end up looking quite similar. But Aren't actually related that's true of the fox and the dog.

00:57:52.000 --> 00:57:56.000
Right. Okay. He was an interesting question, and I don't know if this is when you can answer.

00:57:56.000 --> 00:58:00.000
But I'm going to ask it anyway. This is this is from Rith.

00:58:00.000 --> 00:58:10.000
Talking about domesticated cats here, so domesticated cats seem to have retained more of the wild characteristics than dogs have.

00:58:10.000 --> 00:58:14.000
You know they they still hunt there, and they're very much more independent?

00:58:14.000 --> 00:58:19.000
Do we know why that is? we do know why that is

00:58:19.000 --> 00:58:27.000
The same answer to why that is is because cat domestication is only about 7 or 8,000 years old.

00:58:27.000 --> 00:58:33.000
And said: Dogs have had twice as long to evolve with humans.

00:58:33.000 --> 00:58:45.000
So cats absolutely retain more of their w wild habits, because that there are only half halfway through the process compared to dogs.

00:58:45.000 --> 00:58:52.000
Cats have just not been domesticated for anything like as long as dogs, Right?

00:58:52.000 --> 00:58:57.000
Well, that is quite a simple explanation to go cat cats tend to be rather independent, Don't they?

00:58:57.000 --> 00:59:02.000
You have a sense that the patterns you don't you and you don't own the cat, and so on.

00:59:02.000 --> 00:59:08.000
That's why? Because they they are essentially perfectly capable of living mild on me.

00:59:08.000 --> 00:59:15.000
Okay, i'm gonna keep going with the questions because we've still got a few, and I think it's worth sort of carrying on for a bit longer.

00:59:15.000 --> 00:59:20.000
So question from, sir, You know we have you talked about you know you don't see a curled tail and wolves.

00:59:20.000 --> 00:59:28.000
That's a dog treat it. how does that come about I mean is that is that evolution, or is that bleeding

00:59:28.000 --> 00:59:38.000
That would be what happens. You will know, if you know, from an more and more offspring of it all kinds.

00:59:38.000 --> 00:59:41.000
Every now and again a mutation, a genetic mutation, occurs.

00:59:41.000 --> 00:59:46.000
Genetic mutations can be negative, you know, have bad effects.

00:59:46.000 --> 00:59:49.000
They can have good effects, or they can have neutral effects.

00:59:49.000 --> 00:59:56.000
So at some point in the domestication of wolves, dogs got a bit smaller.

00:59:56.000 --> 01:00:01.000
They got a bit lighter they got a kind of temperament.

01:00:01.000 --> 01:00:06.000
They got softer fur and cell, and in the process they they also.

01:00:06.000 --> 01:00:14.000
Some of them got curly tails, and it will be a genetic mutation which occurs often.

01:00:14.000 --> 01:00:21.000
Mutations are very common. They happen they occur all the time mostly we don't even know what they are, because they're neutral.

01:00:21.000 --> 01:00:26.000
They don't have any effect on us and this would be a neutral mutation.

01:00:26.000 --> 01:00:42.000
It doesn't really cost it doesn't cause any problems it doesn't really confer any benefit either it's a fairly neutral mutation of the tail shape to Do the gap between the ligaments the small gaps from the

01:00:42.000 --> 01:00:50.000
ligaments causes curling but again. probably a human somewhere. Saw a slightly curly tail, and thought I like that.

01:00:50.000 --> 01:00:58.000
I'll keep that one. And breed that with another curly one, and maybe i'll get curly tails and of course we did get curly tails.

01:00:58.000 --> 01:01:04.000
So yeah, okay. Now we've got a question here from Sally, which actually is quite an important one.

01:01:04.000 --> 01:01:13.000
I think. Can you trust your domestic? pit not to shore will flake instincts, I guess in a lot of ways.

01:01:13.000 --> 01:01:24.000
You hear a lot harder stories wouldn't you sure you I think you maintain a guard, and not yeah, the problem is that we only hear the you know.

01:01:24.000 --> 01:01:37.000
So the fabulously awful stories don't we we don't tend to hear the of all the thousands and thousands of dogs that don't attack their owners or don't kill a child or you know whatever it is we only hear

01:01:37.000 --> 01:01:43.000
about the very rare occasions where they do so it's a rare occurrence.

01:01:43.000 --> 01:01:51.000
But I would say, you know, leaving a big dog alone with a baby or a little child, is not a great idea.

01:01:51.000 --> 01:02:02.000
Is it because, whichever way you look at it, this is an animal with strong bike power, shop teeth sucks, and so on.

01:02:02.000 --> 01:02:08.000
And this is a helpless child, or a baby Putting the 2 together is not a great idea.

01:02:08.000 --> 01:02:25.000
Whatever the dog is like, I would say And you know there have been stories I have come across stories where Dobs have been absolutely fine for years, and then something has, you know, been done to them?

01:02:25.000 --> 01:02:37.000
Usually they've usually been pushed to the limit in some way and they've absolutely turned and attacked somebody, so I would say it's it's always in them there are a subspecies of wolf that they

01:02:37.000 --> 01:02:45.000
don't stop being a subspecies of wolf no matter how cute they look, or or how soft they have become with you.

01:02:45.000 --> 01:02:50.000
There are still stimuli out there that could set them off.

01:02:50.000 --> 01:02:57.000
Usually negative things that have been done to them i'd have to say you know, says so.

01:02:57.000 --> 01:03:08.000
Lots of children get bitten, for example, because they they do things to dogs that they don't like you know, like they pull their ears or pull their fur, or something, or make us a loud noise in their face.

01:03:08.000 --> 01:03:12.000
They don't like it. but but obviously children don't know that you know.

01:03:12.000 --> 01:03:20.000
So I just say, but potentially bitey, dangerous animal, and the little child, or whatever is just not a good combination on their own.

01:03:20.000 --> 01:03:27.000
Yeah, okay, like we're going to take one more question and then I think we'll need to to stop them freed forks.

01:03:27.000 --> 01:03:32.000
But any questions that We haven't answered we're certainly going to round them up, and we'll get them answered afterwards.

01:03:32.000 --> 01:03:41.000
But this is an interesting one from sue and it and It's one that you know is talked about here in Scotland, and where I am.

01:03:41.000 --> 01:03:50.000
Do you think we shouldn't reintroduce the wealth to the wild, and particularly talking about that in Scotland in the Highlands?

01:03:50.000 --> 01:03:59.000
Weird it was native. Yes, of course. Well, i've had the privilege of working with them wolves.

01:03:59.000 --> 01:04:07.000
And the one thing that I was absolutely clear to me I was in was in a wolf pack, you know.

01:04:07.000 --> 01:04:11.000
I had to sign away my life. they said if they kill you and eat you.

01:04:11.000 --> 01:04:14.000
It's not our fault, and so I had to sign away in my life to do it.

01:04:14.000 --> 01:04:20.000
But they they're not interested in people I would say they're absolutely humans.

01:04:20.000 --> 01:04:24.000
Have very little interest to wolves. They sniff you over they come and look at you.

01:04:24.000 --> 01:04:29.000
You're just not very interesting species to them they don't see you as food.

01:04:29.000 --> 01:04:37.000
They don't see you as that interesting to be honest so so I would say, Yes, i'd love to see them reintroduced into the world.

01:04:37.000 --> 01:04:43.000
They're not a danger to humans on the whole if you've heard about any wolf attacks.

01:04:43.000 --> 01:04:51.000
You're probably in Canada or somewhere like that usually very unusual circumstances of something very old for Saturday.

01:04:51.000 --> 01:05:04.000
So going? yeah, i'd love to see them in the wild. I think the issue would not be them harming people at all. that the issue would be in how to keep them and livestock apart.

01:05:04.000 --> 01:05:09.000
I think I was just about to see that. I think the farmers might have slightly different.

01:05:09.000 --> 01:05:17.000
Yeah, Yeah, Okay, well, right well, i'm afraid folks we're going to have to leave it there.

01:05:17.000 --> 01:05:23.000
That was absolutely fascinating. Thank you so much Joanne and I hope everybody else enjoyed.
 

00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:43.000
Welcome everyone, and yes, just Fiona's already said, This is a a lecture about the parents of Oscar Wilde, and there used to be a saying.

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If you were studying English literature. If you want to know about us, the world just take a look at his parents.

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So you can perhaps decide for yourself today whether you think that is a fair comment.

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I'm glad to use. sites for the presentation so I will be sharing my screen now, and how that everyone can view these.

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Okay, okay. These are the parents of Oscar Wilde on the left hand side.

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Father of Cold William, while later Sir William Wild he was knighted in 1,864, and on the right hand side his wife, Jane, formerly Jane Lg.

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And i'll be talking a bit about their early lives what we know about their early lives, and hopefully some of their influences on Oscar

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William Wild or William Robert, while to give him useful name, was on on the twelfth of November, in Sorry was married to Jane, I should say, on the twelfth of November the eighteenth.

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51. He was falling in March of 1,815.

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She was born on the 20 seventh of December, in 1,821.

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So she was slightly younger than her husband. and they were married as I've said, on the twelfth of November 1851 some Peters church in doubling how they met where we're not quite sure they probably

00:02:50.000 --> 00:02:58.000
met a social gathering somewhere, and I don't know whether their parents and knew each other.

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Her father, at the time of their marriage, was actually dead. He died when she was no more than 4 years old.

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But nevertheless, you grew up to have a very good at.

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She had a very good education, and it's believed that she spoke numerous languages.

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The figure of 10 languages has been banded around I don't know whether that is a substantiated figure.

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But she was a clever woman and she growled as we'll see she was interested in and involved with a multitude of things, everything from women's rights to Irish history, and primarily she became known as a poet a

00:03:54.000 --> 00:04:01.000
revolutionary it The Both of them were Anglo Irish.

00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:07.000
She had Italian ancestry in her family.

00:04:07.000 --> 00:04:12.000
William Wilde had Dutch ancestry in his family.

00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:21.000
It said that one of his ancestors was a colonel in Cromwell's army I again.

00:04:21.000 --> 00:04:27.000
I I don't know whether that has been wholly substantiated.

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But certainly, he said, to have had that ancestry, and she Italian.

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She wrote poetry in revolutionary Poetry for which as We'll say she did get into some trouble later on she wrote unto the name of Sparanza, and those of you who' Italian is much better than mine

00:04:52.000 --> 00:04:57.000
will know that Speranza is the Italian word for hope.

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So to their marriage. He So William Wild brought 3 illegitimate children, 2 daughters, and one son.

00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:16.000
Will, it will be incorrect to say he brought them to the marriage.

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He had 3 illegitimate children, and he seems to have made no secret.

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Whatsoever of that Jane insisted that the children did not share the family home, so he's 3 illegitimate children, one son, Henry, born 1,838, a doctor, Emily born 1,840

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7, and a daughter, Mary, born 1,840.

00:05:47.000 --> 00:05:59.000
9 were brought up by relatives, and the son Henry would follow his father into the medical profession.