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Lecture 170 - Get to know the Winter sky

Wrap up well and you will be rewarded on a clear dark night with some spectacular sights in the sky - Jupiter, the mighty Orion and the brightest star, Sirius. The Geminid meteor shower should also be visible this December. We’ll consider the main constellations on view and learn some more simple ‘star-hopping’ techniques to help you find them, as well as some of the mythology behind these star patterns.

Join WEA tutor Ann Bonell to discover more about what’s in the skies above us this winter!

Video transcript

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Okay, thank you very much Fiona and good evening everyone. I'm going to share my screen with you now.

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So I hope everyone can see that.

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Yep, that's perfect end.

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Perfect. Okay, thank you. And so the title of tonight's talk then is to get to know the winter night sky.

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And I think that the winter night sky is the most sort of magnificent of the, you know, the seasonal skies that you can see.

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And you do have to wrap up well. Okay, and the, you know, Clear Dark Night has really got some spectacular sights.

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And tonight I'm just going to tell you how you can find the planet Jupiter.

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The constellational rhyme and some other constellations. And I'm going to show you.

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What are called star hopping techniques. That will enable you to sort of pop from one constellation to the other to find out how you can see these objects and we'll also discuss just a bit about the mythology behind these patterns.

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Right. Oh, that's sorry, gone a bit too far. There we are.

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Okay, right, yeah. So, what I'm going to talk about then, first of all, I'm going to tell you about, a meteor shower that will be visible next week.

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Although the weather will certainly have to be better than it is here today in Leicestershire to see that.

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I'll tell you about the styles and planets on view and also you know tell you to look out for some unusual events.

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Now, next week is, the peak of what's called the geminid meteor shower.

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And so first of all, just want to say a bit about what a meteor shower is.

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And it's probably true that most people at some time outside and looked up on a clear dark night and seen a shooting start dash across the sky.

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Well obviously this is a bit of a misnomer because it's not really a star. It's simply a very tiny speck of cosmic dust called a meteoroid which burns up as it sort of passes through the earth's atmosphere and it produces this streak of light which we call a meteor.

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So where does all this dust come from? Well, there's an awful lot of dust in space and that results from planetary, you know, collisions between bodies.

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In the past, but also comets are a great source of dust. As a comet orbits the sun it leaves a dust trail.

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And if the earth crosses this Then we might touch. Well, and that's what we call a meteor shower.

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I should say that if you go out on any night or shower. I should say that if you go out on any night of the year, if it's clear, if you look up for, you know, well, however, you know, few few minutes, half an hour or so, you'd probably be unlucky not to see a meteor, a shooting star.

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But that would almost likely be what we call a sporadic. At certain times of the year, we do see much higher numbers.

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And this is what I mean by a meteor shower. And you can see from this diagram here.

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The line here, little circle here. Represents the orbit of the Earth around the Sun. Comets have quite different orbits from the Earth.

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They're far more elongated. And they are often inclined to the orbit of the Earth.

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But you can see that you know there's a possibility that the orbit of the comet and the earth can intersect usually only once but sometimes it's sort of twice.

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But as the comment goes around, it leaves this trail of dust and over a period of time this, dust trail can spread out.

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And when the earth passes through that, that's when we can see our meteor shower.

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Now, the meteor shower takes its name from the constellation in which what we call the radiant is found.

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Now, if you were to go out and observe a meteor shower, you had a

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The plot trails of the meteors on the star map then if you dotted all those lines back to where they crossed it would cross at 1 point and that's what we call them the radiant okay so the point from which these meteor trails appeared to originate.

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And it's this point and they they come outwards because quite interesting this to all intents and purposes, as the earth plows its way through this stream of dust, these meteoroids, and then that, you know, attack coming into the Earth in parallel paths.

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And it's a perspective effect and I'm sure you're all familiar with this sort of effect.

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That if you've got a train track here now you know that those sides of the rails there are parallel But, and they're appear to get a point, don't they?

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And it's much the thing with this, radiant. And again, it's a bit like if you stand on a motorway bridge.

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Then those lanes there would appear to converge in the distance. And this is a photo of a, meteor.

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I think this was a Gemini that was taken. But you know, you can get a nice long streak across there.

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And the radiant itself of this meteor shower lies in the constellation of Jemini.

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And I'm going to say a bit about that in a minute. Gemini the twins.

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The 2 bright stars in Gemini are called Castor and Pollocks and I will tell you how you can find those.

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But just a bit of mythology, related to Gemini. In Greek mythology, Castor and Pollocks were the sons of Queen Leeda of Sparta.

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But, Pollocks was the son of leader and the gods use because use had seduced a leader.

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But Castor was the son of leader and the king of Sparta who was called Tindarius.

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So they didn't have the same father, but effectively they were, you know, brothers.

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Or twins as sometimes it's interpreted and they're very close but when Castro died because he was mortal because his father was the king of Sparta.

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Pollocks begged his father's use. To give Castor immortality and so that's how Castle came to be in the sky along with his brother Pollock's.

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But the radiant, lies very close to the, yeah, the style castor.

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And just to show you that in perspective. Now I'm assuming that a lot of people will know the constellation or Ryan and this is the view about 11 o'clock.

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In mid December so Orion is sort of slightly over to the southeast. But, and look, up then you've got cast and polyps and those 2 stars pretty much the same brightness and those 2 stars pretty much the same brightness and their It's very close together in the sky, so it's quite distinctive.

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And when you go out and look for these meteors and I'll tell you when and how to you know what sort of time you should be doing this.

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Don't just sort of focus on that area around Castor because remember that's just the point from where they meteors, appear to originate.

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In fact, these things can be streaking all the way across the sky. Like that. So the thing to do is yes, get those perhaps stars of, you know, Castron Pollock's in the center of your view.

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But keep on turning your head round and then you're more likely to see a lot of these meteors.

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Okay, what's the origin of these meteors then? Well, I mentioned earlier on that the origin of most meteor showers is in fact a comet, the comet dust, but the geminids are a bit different.

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Because an asteroid called 3 2 0 0 Python all asteroids have a number associated with them.

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That's believed to be responsible for the geminid meteor shower. So that makes it different from other meteor showers.

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First of all then, what's the difference between a comet and an asteroid?

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Now I'd love to be able to be a bright comment on view over the next month or so, but there's nothing in the offing, I'm afraid.

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And when we do see a comet, it has to be, but there's nothing in the offing, I'm afraid.

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And when we do see a comet, it generally has to be, you know, well, an unexpected visitor, shall we say.

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Now, a comet can be regarded as a sort of dirty snowball with a solid nucleus that's covered by a layer of ice and that ice sublime which means it turns from solid to a gas as the comet nears the sun.

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And as the gas is produced, then it does take off a lot of the dust with it. So that's how you see the tail of the comet.

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But an asteroid is just essentially a space, a space rock.

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That's the orbit of But there's the orbit of the earth there.

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And then I see all this comet again, so another one. So, you can see there that comets do have, you know, quite different orbits from planets.

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Now, Python was discovered back in 1983. By, 2 scientists, in fact, working at Leicester University, Simon Greene and John Davis.

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And they were discovered on images taken by, an astronomical satellite. And initially it was given that name.

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But once they'd analyzed the orbit, it became clear that this wasn't your typical comet.

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It was an asteroid and so it was given this name back in 1,985.

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That's a fairly small piece of rock about, you know, well under 6 kilometers in diameter and it takes about 524 days to complete one orbit of the Sun.

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So that's 1.4 3 years. And this diagram here. Shows the orbit of Python.

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Compared with the orbits of well there's there's Venus there. And the orbit of the Earth.

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Okay, so it comes in like this and you can see it sort of crosses. Yes, and then comes back out again.

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So it's at this sort of crossing point here that it would leave this dust trail that is going to give rise to the meteor shower.

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Now, Python, I said it's of interest. It approaches the sun closer.

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Than any other named asteroid.

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And it means that when it's at what we call perihelion, which is at the point in its orbit when it's closest to the Sun.

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It's only about 13 million miles, 21 million kilometers. All the other units that astronomers use for measuring distance is the astronomical unit which is in fact the Earth Sun distance and so when you express the distance of an object in terms of astronomical units, it's giving you some indication of the size of that.

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Orbit compared with the Earth. So you can see this thing. When it is close to the sun, it's point 1 4 of the distance of the earth from the sun.

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So it's very close.

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But when it's that close into the sun, the temperature could reach well over a thousand Kelvin or 750 Celsius.

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So it gets very hot and that's thought to be how or why it gives rise to this dust because the surface of this asteroid must get baked by the sun.

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It must loosen some of the material and any volatile material could be given off and takes any of this dust with it.

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So you can see it does it's got a very what we call eccentric orbit. When it's furthest from the summit, Appelian.

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It's 2.4 times the distance of the Earth from the Sun. Perry, it's point 1 4.

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What is closest, So anyway, get us the exciting bit. How can you view these? Well, you will need a clear sky, of course, and the Geminis themselves, and any time really about between the fourth and the seventeenth of December, the shower is is there the earth is passing through it but there will be times when it's predicted that there'll be more of these meteors than normal

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because the dust is more concentrated in certain parts of the stream. And the peak is around the fourteenth of December.

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So I would recommend that you perhaps look out on the evenings of the thirteenth, the fourteenth or the fifteenth.

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I've suggested those dates because well you just can't guarantee the weather can you? You know, so look out and they're pretty good on the weather forecast these days, that telling you when to look for meteors, aren't they?

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General myself. Is very high in the sky about one to 2 o'clock but in the morning but don't worry you don't have to get up that early to see it.

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And certainly before midnight you'd be able to see a few and of course if you're going out at this time of the year wrap up well you know hot drinks with you take a chair or recliner so that you can lean back.

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Because you know you will be out there for some time looking at these and you know maybe some blankets and obviously it's best not to go on your own but if you did of course tell someone where you were going but you know meteor watching is fun to do in a group.

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Because there's always someone who, sees. One bright meteor and everyone else doesn't doesn't and you know gives them a real feeling of one up and ship actually but anyway, you know, that's, that's what you need to do.

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So go out on a clear evening next week. And look for these meteors.

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Now you might see predictions, oh, 120 metres an hour. Well, that sounds a lot.

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But it still is only 2 a minute. So don't go out there expecting to see. Thanks coming at you right left and sense.

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I'm afraid you won't you do have to have a bit of patience for meteor watching.

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Good luck anyway.

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And there's the constellation of Gemini there then, okay, Caster and Pollocks that we mentioned, these are brothers.

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And they are to the if you're looking at online to the upper left but we've got a map that'll show you how to find them.

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And if you're just wondering about these stars, just a bit of interest about them. Pollocks, okay, which if you look.

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There is the, the sort of lower one. Okay. Pollocks is 34 light years away.

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Now where are we now? Well, we're nearly 2,024. So just to make the maths a bit easier, the mental arithmetic, if you go out and look at Pollock's the light left there in 1,990 to get to your eyes.

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Over, you know, next week or whenever. And castle the upper one well when you look at that with the naked eye it appears to be one star but in fact there are 6 stars that make up that system.

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But obviously they're so close that you can't resolve them except with specialist equipment. So just a bit of interesting facts there about Caster and Pollops.

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Now what planets are on view at the moment? Well, Jupiter is dominating the evening sky.

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As soon as it gets dark, go out there and have a look and that really bright object you will see will be due.

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And Jupiter is the largest of the planet. At the moment it's got 95 confirmed moons, but I wouldn't be surprised if that, you know, more would be discovered in the future.

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Now the 4 largest and indeed brightest moons are called I/O Europa, Ganymede and Calisto.

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And they are visible with binoculars. Although it's fair to say you might not see all 4 at once due to the fact that they're orbiting Jupiter, you know, sometimes one or 2 of them are behind Jupiter, etc.

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But, something you might like to sort of get involved in. Is that at the moment you can actually get your name put on a probe to Europa.

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This large moon of Jupiter. Because in October of next year a man called you Rupa Clipper is due to be launched.

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And Europa is a great interest because it's an icy moon. The diagram or the photo you've got on the right.

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Is water ice. And underneath that layer of water lice, we're not quite sure how thick it is, but probably, you know, tens of kilometers.

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There is believed to be a liquid ocean water and in fact this belief to be more water on Europa than on the Earth despite the fact that Europa is only about the same size as our moon.

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Anyway, what you can do is this probe is going to go off there and hopefully tell us a lot more about your Roper.

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And what you need to do is look in your search engine, just type in Europa Message in a bottle.

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But hurry because it closes at 1159 eastern standard time on December the 30 first of this year sorry i didn't mean to look up the conversion but if you do it tonight it's not going to matter but then you see there's my name on this.

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My name is along with loads of other people actually. Is, is on this spacecraft that will be Hello.

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It's a fun thing to do for children as well, isn't it? Anything you've got any youngsters who interested in science or space, you know, that would be good because it's not going to get there until 2030 so it's got 6 years so you never know if you've got any youngsters in your family they're not interested in space at the moment when it's 6 years

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time they might be so and get them on the Europa clipper. If I, lots of NASA missions do this, I've lost count of the number of missions that my name is on.

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But I think it's just a big kid in me that, that does it. Yeah.

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And anyway.

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Can be a stars then. Oh, by the way, just before the start, if you want to see a bright planet in the morning sky, then that is Venus.

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So if you get up and look out towards the morning sky, then that is Venus. So if you get up and look out towards the east, southeast, and look out towards the east, southeast, before sunrise, that bright object you see will be Venus.

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Right, so what about the sky then? What stars can we see? Well, Mitch January, 9 p.

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But that is also the same view you'd get round about 11 o'clock now.

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And just to close up, I'm just going to concentrate this afternoon on looking south. But there are styles of course that you see when you look north, but I'm going to concentrate on these.

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So let's stop off with all Ryan, the king of the winter sky, and we'll also mention some other constellations, Taurus, or Geminis, I've already done that, haven't I?

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And I'm going to mention these stars here. Serious and Procyon. Now, I think that, or Ryan, a lot of people can recognize that.

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And mainly Orion's belt is the prominent feature there. But Orion is very useful as a signpost.

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Earlier on, we were talking about Gemini. So we've got Kastron Pollocks up there.

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But if you've got Orion's belt So the top star in Orion's belt.

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And you draw a line from there. Up through the shoulder start back of Then you come to cast. So that's the first.

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But we'll also see that it's going to enable us to find a lot of the other stars that we're going to talk about.

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And there's a photograph of Orion. I think this was actually taken on film some years ago now with a, with a scan.

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There but we're gonna see that photo again but there there's the belt there and there's Battle Girls, so to find Catherine Pollocks.

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I would simply draw a line up there and follow that through the sky.

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I'll skip that for now. Now, Orion is the most magnificent constellation.

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I'll say discuss. I'm not going to now, but it is. It's absolutely splendid.

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And in a few months time, you know, come April when you know, Orion is disappearing from our skies.

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You feel something's missing when you go out and look there. The pattern that Orion makes is quite distinctive and it's been recognized by many civilizations.

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The belt and this sort of figure of a man. And in Greek mythology, or Ryan was a very, very, very strong hunter.

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But he was a bit boastful. Because he dared to say that he would kill every animal on the earth.

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And this upset the goddess Gaia and so she sent a scorpion to try and kill Orion and the scorpion bit Orion.

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Okay. And but that's also given us the reason why. Or Ryan and the consolation scorpion scorpion, and the scene in the sky at the same time.

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You see Scorpius in the summer sky. However, Orion wasn't killed by the, scorpion, because offeous, that's another constellation, off he is just a surf paint bearer, revived a line with an antidote.

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And off the use just was placed in the sky between Orion and Scorpion hopefully are keeping the peace and coming up with the antidote again if ever it's needed.

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So that's a bit of mythology, but you might find lots of other stories and lots of other civilizations.

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Have got their own stories. So there we are. This diagram here shows the names of some of these stars.

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But if I talk about the names again, I will put up another slide.

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Here is a representation of Orion with his club, remember he was a hunter. And he's got a line there.

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Right. No, I think this is interesting. Because when we look at the stars in the sky they just look like points on above us on what we call the celestial sphere.

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But the stars are all different distances from us. Now if you look in the top left hand side you can see we've actually got this diagram of All right, there's the belt.

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There's Becklegur's, the shoulder star. Yes, that's right, which is his knee.

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But is interesting to look at this diagram here. This looks a bit complicated, but it's, let me see, we can explain it.

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Now what we've got here at the front a screen. Or you can pitch that as a screen, okay?

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So that's the sort of view we get from the earth. Okay. And as far as we're concerned, you know, they they're all on this screen.

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But you can see the light from this star has to travel from here to get to the screen.

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Whereas the light from, say, the Orion Nebula. Has to travel a much further distance to get to the screen.

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So that's what it's showing. So, Bellatrix. Which is this right hand shoulder style there.

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That is about 252 light years away. So, where are we now?

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2,01750. So the light would have left there round about 1770. To get to your eyes.

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Whereas Becklegur's here, well, I think.

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Actually measuring the distance to stars is difficult. And I think people now think that battle girls may be about 600 light years away, so it be a bit further back here.

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And but you can see that all these styles are different distances and there's a rigel there.

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The knee star and he's about 800 odd, well, 800 900 light years away.

00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:12.000
So the lightest taken that length of time to travel to us. But the most distant start that you can see with the naked eye in Orion.

00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:25.000
Is actually one of the style belt. One on the right hand side, which is called Alni Lamb, and that is the best part of 2,000 light years away.

00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:37.000
Well, I'll say a bit more about that in a minute, but I quite like that diagram because I say we get when we look up at the sky we get the idea that you know the stars that just on this celestial fifth but they're not they're different distances away.

00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:45.000
Now, just say something about Bettle Girls itself, the shoulder star. It is in fact the seventh brightest star in the sky is seen from the UK.

00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:50.000
Second brightest start in a ride and it is one of the largest stars that's visible to the naked eye.

00:26:50.000 --> 00:27:01.000
It's what we call a red giant and it's 640 light years from, that is the modern estimate.

00:27:01.000 --> 00:27:08.000
And just to show you how big it is. You've got these 6 little screens here.

00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:20.000
Okay, we start off up here. This shows, So the smallest one is on the left hand side, the largest one on the right hand side.

00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:29.000
So we're going from Mercury to the Earth. And then when we go to the next panel, then the largest one in the previous panel is now the smallest okay and it works up like that.

00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:38.000
So we're going from Earth to Jupiter. And then we go from Jupiter. And then, there's the sun there.

00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:46.000
And this is a start called Serious that I'm going to mention later on. So you can see Sirius is quite a bit larger in diameter than the Sun.

00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:53.000
And then it goes on like this. Okay, there's Sirius there and there's Pollocks.

00:27:53.000 --> 00:27:58.000
There's Al Debra and that I'm going to mention later on. But, are we ever going to get to battle girls?

00:27:58.000 --> 00:28:06.000
Well, yes, we are. But you can see it is really one of the biggest stars that's known.

00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:16.000
So, I showing these relative sizes. So it is a very big star. And in fact, another way of looking at this.

00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:21.000
That's what an estimate of the size of Betelgurs, so that's its size.

00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:26.000
But on the same scale that's the size of the Earth's orbit. And that's the size of Jupiter's orbit.

00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:32.000
So if you put Battle Goes in the middle of our solar system. Well, it's good by Earth and goodbye Jupiter.

00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:42.000
It would probably stretch, you know, a significant fraction of the way out to Saturn. So it's a big star.

00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:49.000
Now, something very interesting happened with Becklegur's, 3 years ago now.

00:28:49.000 --> 00:29:02.000
We've had, yeah, no, perhaps 3, nearly 4 years ago. It's because normally Becklegur's really shines well in.

00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:08.000
Ryan and you can I said it was a red giant you can see the difference in color from the other styles in the constellation here.

00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:14.000
Well, in late, 2,019, early 2020, it suddenly dimmed and people didn't know why.

00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:26.000
At the time and that was a photo that was taken. So this is late 2019 early 2020 and you can clearly see that Becklegurse has dimmed.

00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:41.000
Now, what caused this dimming? Well, various series come up, but the dimming was probably due to a dust cloud passing in front of Bettle Girls rather than any sort of change in the star itself.

00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:51.000
This material was ejected from the start and it called. And blocked out some of the light.

00:29:51.000 --> 00:30:01.000
Now, but that's not to say that. You know, there won't be, yeah, some change in the star because Bettle G is a good candidate for what we call a supernova.

00:30:01.000 --> 00:30:16.000
Which is when the most massive stars literally implode and explode releasing fantastic amounts of energy. And so, you know, if this were to happen, then you know, Orion would actually look like that.

00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:22.000
Backglers would be extremely bright, could outshine the full moon, maybe be visible in daylight.

00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:30.000
But obviously if it were to happen, it would be 640 years before we knew about it.

00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:42.000
Anyway, just back to Orion then with Becktelgurs. There and Rigel, the knee star, again another very big star.

00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:52.000
This is very hot white star. So there's Rigel in comparison with the sun. And it's about 860 light years from the sun.

00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:56.000
So again, let's say 900 just to make the mental arithmetic and we pretend we're in the year 2,000.

00:30:56.000 --> 00:31:04.000
So the light would, lead, I've left battle girls to reach your ice tonight round about the year 1,100.

00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:10.000
So the Normans hadn't really been over here for you know for very long.

00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:32.000
Now, Orion's belt, everyone's heard of all Ryan's belt, there's a telescopic view of them and a lot of people in other cultures have recognized these they've been called the 3 Marys Jacobs Rod or Jacob staff our ladies wand the Magi or the Chinese referred to them as the weighing bean

00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:42.000
It's all here, okay. Mintaka is about 900 light years away.

00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:48.000
Alan, the one in the middle there, is about 2,000 light years away. And, only tech.

00:31:48.000 --> 00:32:07.000
Is about 800 light years away. So those 3 stars there are you know, some of the, some of the most distant styles you can see with your naked eye but the fact that they appear so bright is telling us that they're very luminous indeed, the sort of real powerhouses of stars.

00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:18.000
There they are sitting there like that. There's no physical association between those styles of I'm sorry, let me just go back there.

00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:25.000
On this photo here, you notice there's a little sort of red area there. Well, that is the Orion Nebula.

00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:32.000
Which you can see with The Naked eye from somewhere really dark. But probably best to look in binoculars, but it won't appear ready.

00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:56.000
It only appears red on a sort of photographic film. And to find it, you take the styles of the belt and just scan down with your binoculars and what's called Orion's sword and you'll see a clussy patch there but this is magnificent it is in fact about 1,340 light years away from us.

00:32:56.000 --> 00:33:09.000
But it's a big star forming region. You know come back in a few 1 million years time and that will be littered with stars and it's been very intensely studied by the Hubble Space Telescope.

00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:17.000
So stars are being born in this big cloud of gas and dust and a lot of what's going on at the moment is hidden from our, optical, eyes.

00:33:17.000 --> 00:33:21.000
By the gas and the dust, but things like Hubble and especially the James Webb Space Telescope.

00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:32.000
Are giving a really good look at this and is enable us to understand more about how styles form and how they evolve.

00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:36.000
Okay, so I've mentioned Becklegurz and Rigel and the belt.

00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:48.000
Starting with the Ryan's belt, we can find 2 other important stars. And the first one is if we go up and find.

00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:59.000
And then we come down find serious in the constellation of Canis Major. And then we've come down to find Serious in the constellation of Canis Major.

00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:06.000
Oh, sorry, I've done it the other way around. Okay. Well, to find Sirius, the dog star, you draw an imaginary line through the 3 stars of Orion's belt from the upper right going down to the left.

00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:12.000
Go towards the horizon and you meet Sirius, which is the brightest star in the, in the night sky.

00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:25.000
And in mythology, Canis Major or which is the constellation that it's in the larger dog represented the dog the lilaps which was a gift from Zeus to a Europa.

00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:32.000
There's Canis Major there. And Sirius is one of our nearest neighbours in space.

00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:46.000
The light takes just under 9 years to reach the earth from Syria. So if you're looking at it, you know, tonight in the next few nights, the light left there around about 2,014 to get to your eyes.

00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:52.000
Now if we follow the belt in the other direction coming up like that, then we come to our Deborah.

00:34:52.000 --> 00:35:02.000
Which is the brightest star in Taurus. So draw an imaginary line through the stars of the belt from left to right and extend it upwards.

00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:11.000
And then you've got, Al, And this is another giant style. But it's 65 like years away.

00:35:11.000 --> 00:35:27.000
So the light, would have left there in what round about 1960 ish. Or just before late 1950 s to get to your eyes tonight and again you can see the comparative sizes of algebra and the sun.

00:35:27.000 --> 00:35:32.000
Now in in mythology, tourists associated with use. I mean, he crops up everywhere, doesn't he?

00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:51.000
He adopted the form of a bull when he tried to abduct a princess. You This is one of the few constellations that actually looks a bit like what it's named after because you've got the horns of the bull there.

00:35:51.000 --> 00:35:55.000
Haven't you? Yeah, that both false. And there's Al Debra and there.

00:35:55.000 --> 00:36:06.000
And there's this little V-shaped grouping of stars there called the Hyades. And the plaid is Al Debra and isn't a member of that that group there.

00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:13.000
It's just what we call a line of sight effect. It lies between us and them. And there's, a photograph there.

00:36:13.000 --> 00:36:22.000
So there's the belt coming up to Orion. And then this V shape here is are the hybrides a star pasta.

00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:29.000
So all those stars there. I'm moving through space together and it's very interesting to look at them with binoculars.

00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:35.000
If you look at them with binoculars, you'll find that some of those styles are actually double styles.

00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:40.000
You've got the other 2 stars that make up the horns there, much further away.

00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:48.000
Okay, and then you've got the plaid ease or the 7 sisters there

00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:55.000
Sorry, I've just dropped mine. Just retrieve that.

00:36:55.000 --> 00:37:01.000
Sorry. Sorry. That's upset the mouse.

00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:15.000
And sorry. Okay, there's the photo then. Okay. So, and the Hyades and the Pleiades.

00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:20.000
Now in in mythology, the Hydeas were the daughters of the Atlas and the half-sisters of the plides.

00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:30.000
And they were placed in the sky after the death of their brother. And as I said, I'll Deborah and is not a member of this Hydeas cluster, it's a line of sight effect.

00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:38.000
And there's a close-up of the plaidies, the 7 sisters. And these are stars, they're very close together.

00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:53.000
In the sky but your eye is pretty good at picking them up and if you do go out there and have a look for them don't try and look directly at them look at them at the corner of your eye using what we call averted vision and you'll get a much clearer view.

00:37:53.000 --> 00:38:00.000
And, there they are there on the, on the map, okay? So we've got.

00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:11.000
Orion had serious. Before.

00:38:11.000 --> 00:38:20.000
There is another star, that you can find called Procyon. And this is in the constellation of Cannes Minor, the little, the lesser dog.

00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:26.000
And again, it's another one of our near neighbors. It's only 11 and a half light years away.

00:38:26.000 --> 00:38:38.000
And prosion is found by drawing a line. You know, you've got to battle girls and Bella tricks at the top of Orion draw a line directly across that you come to pro cyan.

00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:41.000
And prosion and becklegurs and Sirius are often lumped together as the winter triangle.

00:38:41.000 --> 00:38:57.000
I think astronomers do like to find a lot of these geometric patterns in the sky. When it's something like that and it's not a constellation, we call it an asterism.

00:38:57.000 --> 00:39:06.000
So that they're fine, that is very obvious. And, science serious and actually got a number of similarities which I won't go into tonight.

00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:15.000
Again, another pattern, the astronomers. To the sky is something called the winter hexagon.

00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:31.000
And we've got pollocks there and pro Sion and Sirius and Rajel and Al Debra and then there is another star which I haven't mentioned tonight but it's overhead during the winter months called capella and those 6 styles there make up the winter hexagon.

00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:41.000
No, so, there we are. So, there's Orion and the say, Orion is absolutely a magnificent.

00:39:41.000 --> 00:39:58.000
No, but in the sky you should always be prepared for a surprise. Now, over the last few months, there have been a few occasions when the Aurora borealis, the northern lights have been visible from, you know, quite a lot of the UK.

00:39:58.000 --> 00:40:10.000
Obviously the further north you are, the more chance you have of seeing it. Okay. How do you know when?

00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:16.000
The aura is caused when a stream of very energetic particles that's emitted by the Sun interacts with the gases in the Earth's atmosphere, the oxygen and the nitrogen.

00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:33.000
These charged particles collide with the oxygen and the nitrogen. It gives these molecules a bit of extra energy and these molecules, then what we call excited, they lose this extra energy by radiating it in the form of this colored light.

00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:46.000
So how will you know when a, might be seen? Well, this good website, It's run by the University of Lancashire.

00:40:46.000 --> 00:40:58.000
So just Google or other search engines are of course available. Aurora Watch. UK and they've also got a station in Shetland and you'll see something like this.

00:40:58.000 --> 00:41:04.000
If it's red, then that is good news. That means that an aurora could be visible from anywhere in the UK.

00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:07.000
If it's green, it means there's no significant geomagnetic activity. So don't wait up.

00:41:07.000 --> 00:41:14.000
And most of the time it is green. There is something else as well called the glendale app.

00:41:14.000 --> 00:41:23.000
Which is good for that so that would give you an indication when an aurora might be due but again the weather forecasts are pretty good at this.

00:41:23.000 --> 00:41:34.000
But now, often, you know, it might be cloudy where you are, but you know that they're seeing on a roar in other parts of the country.

00:41:34.000 --> 00:41:36.000
The number of good webcams. There's a couple of webcams on Shetland that I use.

00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:56.000
Once called cliff cam 3 and if you just Google that it'll come up with the link that looks north from sombre head you do get some distant lights but I know a couple of weeks ago from watching a magnificent display from there and there's one on a place called Borough Firth which is on Unst.

00:41:56.000 --> 00:42:07.000
And there's a very good camera there the skies are much darker than the cliff cam 3 and unfortunately it's undergoing maintenance at the present so But just keep an eye open for that.

00:42:07.000 --> 00:42:25.000
But again, a couple of weeks ago when it was active, yeah, that was great. And also when you wake up in the morning, if you haven't had a sufficient dose the previous night from the Shetland webcams then go on to this is one I use Northern Lights Cam in Churchill, Manitoba.

00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:37.000
And I think there's one in Fair Banks, Alaska as well. There's probably loads of them, but you know just find one and you can get your fix of the aurora like that even if you can't see it yourself.

00:42:37.000 --> 00:42:38.000
And some of you may have seen this a couple of weeks ago. On Saturday, sort of forgot to put the date in there.

00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:58.000
Wasn't last Saturday before, but a lunar halo was visible over many parts of the UK and this is due to the sort of presence of, and this is due to the sort of presence of, you know, ice crystals, the sort of presence of, you know, ice crystals, you know, high up in the earth's atmosphere, you know, high up in the earth's atmosphere, you know.

00:42:58.000 --> 00:43:16.000
refracting the light of the moon, but, Oh, it was the nice ones I see. So although, you know, we're able to predict, you know, when constellations and planets are going to be on view, astronomy is always full of surprises.

00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:29.000
Like maybe an aurora or a lunar halo and i think it's just a case of you know going out and looking up at the sky live looking up during the day as well because then you can get all sorts of atmospheric phenomena associated from the sun.

00:43:29.000 --> 00:43:51.000
With things like sun dogs which you may have heard of. And you can get things called Nacreous Clouds, which are quite rare in the UK, but I have seen them and they're the multicolored clouds that you do require very cold conditions for that.

00:43:51.000 --> 00:43:57.000
So I hope I've given you an idea of what you can see in the night sky and I hope I've sort of encouraged you in giving you the incentive to go and look out for these.

00:43:57.000 --> 00:44:07.000
As I said, I can't guarantee you an Aurora, but on a clear night you will get all Ryan and you know explore it with your binoculars.

00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:18.000
Go out with friends and p contact your local astronomical society as well because I'm sure they'd be very happy to give you a tour of the night sky.

00:44:18.000 --> 00:44:21.000
So thank you very much indeed. Thank you.

00:44:21.000 --> 00:44:25.000
Thanks very much and do you want to just take your presentation down and we'll go into a few questions.

00:44:25.000 --> 00:44:26.000
We'll take yes, okay. Yeah.

00:44:26.000 --> 00:44:33.000
We've got a few that have come in. And thanks very much for that. Really fascinating. Now.

00:44:33.000 --> 00:44:41.000
I'll just start from the top actually. This is a question from Frederick. Can you see Cassiopeia in the winter?

00:44:41.000 --> 00:44:42.000
At this time.

00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:45.000
Yes, you can. You can see Cassie appear at any time of the year because it's what we call a circular constellation.

00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:51.000
So it's fairly close to the pole star. Yes you can. And in the winter, Cassia pit is high up actually.

00:44:51.000 --> 00:44:59.000
So yeah, you can.

00:44:59.000 --> 00:45:06.000
Hmm, that we go, Frederick. Okay. And we have another question from David.

00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:07.000
Right, yeah.

00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:11.000
And this is about the International Space Station. And when is it we can see it sort of round about this time of year?

00:45:11.000 --> 00:45:19.000
Right, okay. Well, you've just missed the current series of passes. I think that ended last week.

00:45:19.000 --> 00:45:33.000
And the international space station you can either see it you know for a period of time after the sunsets in the evening or in the mornings before the sun rises.

00:45:33.000 --> 00:45:48.000
And I think that, what you need to do is, you know, perhaps get an app for your phone that gives you predictions.

00:45:48.000 --> 00:45:52.000
I think we've got a list of apps and things, don't we, and that we can share with people.

00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:53.000
Yeah. Yeah.

00:45:53.000 --> 00:45:57.000
Or you know the various websites that you can you can do this from and if you want I can I think we have actually, yes, I can put that down, but you won't see it from the UK at the moment, you'll have to wait a few weeks, I'm afraid.

00:45:57.000 --> 00:45:58.000
But again, that's spectacular as well.

00:45:58.000 --> 00:46:05.000
Hmm. Yeah. Okay, look, right. So, next from Madeline.

00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:10.000
Now, when we were looking at some of those stars. You know, some of them are quite red.

00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:12.000
Are they really red?

00:46:12.000 --> 00:46:23.000
Yes. Yeah. I mean, it stars our different colors and the color of a star gives us information about the temperature of the outer layers of the stars.

00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:30.000
And, you know, normally we think of blue being cold and red being hot. It stars, it's the other way around.

00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:38.000
The red styles have got the much cooler exteriors and the really hot styles are the white and blue ones.

00:46:38.000 --> 00:46:45.000
So get color is a very you can give us very important information about a star.

00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:52.000
Right. Okay. I hope that answers your question. And Madeline, now we've got another question here.

00:46:52.000 --> 00:46:59.000
This is an interesting one. Hold on, let me just find it again. And this is from Lesley.

00:46:59.000 --> 00:47:10.000
Excusing her ignorance but if some of these stars are really that far away so many you know light years away, how do we know they are still there?

00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:26.000
Well, I suppose, you know, one answer is that we don't, but I mean, we're pretty certain that they are because, you know, the lifetime, lifetimes of stars or most styles that you see in the sky are measured in hundreds of millions, billions of years.

00:47:26.000 --> 00:47:41.000
I mean, our Sun is 4.6 billion years old. And, you know, so the sort of distances that we can see with the naked eye are fairly, you know, trivial compared with the actual ages of the star.

00:47:41.000 --> 00:47:58.000
But you know she is quite right that something you know might have happened. I mean battle girls might have turned into a supernova but we won't know about it until 640 years after the event.

00:47:58.000 --> 00:48:00.000
Hmm. It's mind-boggling, isn't it?

00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:08.000
But yeah, but from what we know, you know, generally, I mean, astronomers have good, you know, theories about how stars are made, how they evolve.

00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:21.000
And we know that you know, some styles are much longer lived than others. So seeing what type of star it is, then that would give us confidence in perhaps suggesting that that style might still be there.

00:48:21.000 --> 00:48:31.000
Okay. Right, and here's a question from Mavis. Could a celestial event affect the Earth in any way?

00:48:31.000 --> 00:48:41.000
Well, yes, if you think about, in the past, you know, an asteroid striking Earth.

00:48:41.000 --> 00:48:42.000
Not sure.

00:48:42.000 --> 00:48:52.000
Is that the type of celestial event that's wanted or you know because I mean the earth has been struck many times in the past by you know, asteroids, you know, space rocks.

00:48:52.000 --> 00:49:04.000
And we know the same sort of thing has happened to the moon and the Mercury and Mars, but we see more of a history of that on those planets because they don't have an atmosphere and they're not You know, they don't have, you know, the geological activity that the Earth does.

00:49:04.000 --> 00:49:13.000
So, everyone's aware of the events that, you know, you know, supposedly saw off the dinosaurs.

00:49:13.000 --> 00:49:22.000
But you know, the actual, you know, crater that resulted from that is sort of buried under the earth.

00:49:22.000 --> 00:49:25.000
But there's the big meteor crater in Arizona. Which is, I think is about 50,000 years old, something like that.

00:49:25.000 --> 00:49:40.000
And that was a much smaller event. So things like that can happen. But it's that is that what's meant by a celestial event or is it perhaps another you know planetary line app in which case I would say no to that.

00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:46.000
Hmm. Okay. I hope that answers your question. Maybe now we've got something here.

00:49:46.000 --> 00:50:00.000
From Ken. Wondering if you could maybe explain or explain a little bit more about interpreting the Sky Map, you know, and tell us, tell people a bit more about the horizon, the Meridian, these kinds of things.

00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:05.000
Right, okay. Do you want me to go back into one of the maps? Would that help or not?

00:50:05.000 --> 00:50:06.000
You do that might, that might be helpful. Yes, but not too much trouble.

00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:14.000
Okay, alright, let me just see if I can share the screen again and.

00:50:14.000 --> 00:50:23.000
I'll just run back with so I find one of the

00:50:23.000 --> 00:50:28.000
It's not running backwards now.

00:50:28.000 --> 00:50:33.000
Oh, here we are. Yeah, that's works. Sorry, just click through. Right, yeah, that's a map there.

00:50:33.000 --> 00:50:44.000
I get this off a website called Heavens Hype and Above. Com. And it's free to you have to register but it's free to download and I like this because I think these projects nicely.

00:50:44.000 --> 00:50:57.000
Now this is the view looking south then, okay. And you know the map you produce the map for a given date and time.

00:50:57.000 --> 00:51:25.000
And you know the computer does all that for you. And so this is me looking south at this particular date and time and I can see that you know virtually due south is the start Al Debra and but Orion is slightly to the east of that okay because when you look at this the east is going round there Okay, so, and West goes around there, like that.

00:51:25.000 --> 00:51:40.000
And the term meridian. Refers to the it's basically what you know what's due south from an So if I was observing at this time.

00:51:40.000 --> 00:51:46.000
Then Al Debra and because tall intents and purposes it's due south that would be on the meridian.

00:51:46.000 --> 00:51:50.000
Okay. That you can get.

00:51:50.000 --> 00:52:00.000
What I don't like about these heavens above maps is that, when you go to the north, it doesn't put north at the bottom so it's not always quite so easy to see.

00:52:00.000 --> 00:52:23.000
But you can get apps on your phone that would have Sky Maps for you. You can buy devices called planispheres which are like little there's a map of the sky and again you there's a plastic sheet on top and you you put in the date and time that you're observing the date and time that you're observing the date and time that you're observing and what's visible in

00:52:23.000 --> 00:52:27.000
the oval, would be the stars that would be visible in the oval, and would be the stars that would be visible.

00:52:27.000 --> 00:52:42.000
And yeah, I know star. And would be the stars that would be visible. And yeah, I know star maps can be tricky to get used to and I think the thing to do is if you go on to a website like this there would be some explanation there for you.

00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:49.000
Okay. So that's the direction that you would face, okay? Cause that makes sense.

00:52:49.000 --> 00:52:50.000
It's a bit, I can perhaps find out a bit more detail. Yeah, carry on.

00:52:50.000 --> 00:52:56.000
Okay. Could you just explain? Yeah, yeah, could you just explain what the pink line is on that?

00:52:56.000 --> 00:53:01.000
Oh, the pink line. Yeah, the pink line is something called the ecliptic. Okay.

00:53:01.000 --> 00:53:10.000
And, that represents the path of the sun against the background stars over the course of a year.

00:53:10.000 --> 00:53:24.000
Okay. Or it's also, if you like the The Earth all bits the Sun, okay, and it's the projection of the Earth's orbit on the sky.

00:53:24.000 --> 00:53:48.000
And because all of the planets in the solar system they all bit in pretty much the same plane okay it's not exact but it's pretty much the same then if you want to find a planet or the moon you look towards this sort of purple line the ecliptic so there we are we've got Jupiter sitting bang on the ecliptic and the ecliptic marks out the constellations of

00:53:48.000 --> 00:53:57.000
the zodiac. So you can see we've got Pisces here, we've got Taurus here, we've got Gemini and Cancer and Leo.

00:53:57.000 --> 00:54:12.000
And as I said, it's, it marks out this. Because the part of the sun and the oldest v of course.

00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:16.000
You know, said, you know, the sun is in Gemini. The sun is in Taurus.

00:54:16.000 --> 00:54:31.000
Okay, but you know that that's essentially what it is. It's marking out the plane of the Earth's orbit on the sky or the path that the Sun takes against the background styles but of course in you know, when we're looking at this though, you think, well, where's the sun?

00:54:31.000 --> 00:54:42.000
Well, it's not there, of course. It's, you know, below the horizon and, so it's a bit difficult to explain actually but

00:54:42.000 --> 00:54:52.000
Yeah, it's yeah, over the course of a year, as I said, it marks out where the sun moves against the stars.

00:54:52.000 --> 00:55:01.000
That's that's where you look for a planet. Or the moon. I think we got the moon over there as well.

00:55:01.000 --> 00:55:02.000
Thank you.

00:55:02.000 --> 00:55:06.000
Sorry, I said I can find perhaps a better answer with a better diagram.

00:55:06.000 --> 00:55:12.000
Okay. Right. Let's have a look. I got another question here.

00:55:12.000 --> 00:55:20.000
Again, this is from David's, is Venus the brightest planet that we can see? From here.

00:55:20.000 --> 00:55:37.000
Yes, it is, yes. Yeah. I mean Jupiter gets pretty bright as well but it never reaches the you know the brightness that Venus does and it's reckoned that it's I mean obviously Venus is a lot closer to us than Jupiter so not further away but also the atmosphere of Venus.

00:55:37.000 --> 00:55:50.000
It's got a very thick atmosphere and it's supposed to have droplets of sort of sulfur type compounds in it which are very good at reflecting the light from the sun.

00:55:50.000 --> 00:55:57.000
Hmm. I actually saw a part I presumed to be a planet in Sky. It was a few weeks ago now, dark.

00:55:57.000 --> 00:56:10.000
In the east with the men and then there was something else that was very bright. Just I think it was down below it either to the I can't remember whether it was the left or the right, but I kind of thought that was probably Jupiter

00:56:10.000 --> 00:56:12.000
Will say in the evening.

00:56:12.000 --> 00:56:19.000
Yes, it was. Yeah.

00:56:19.000 --> 00:56:20.000

00:56:20.000 --> 00:56:25.000
Yes, yeah, yeah, that would have been Jupiter then, yeah, cause for the last few months, Venus is only been visible in the morning sky, although next year that will change and it will be comfortable in the evening sky again.

00:56:25.000 --> 00:56:33.000
Hmm, Okay, I think we're just about time folks. Thank you very much for that.

00:56:33.000 --> 00:56:44.000
And that was fascinating as always and kind of rounds off the little series of lectures that we've had about the night sky and the different seasons.

00:56:44.000 --> 00:56:45.000
Okay, all right.

00:56:45.000 --> 00:56:47.000
I think we've covered them all now man I think. So thanks again and I hope everybody enjoyed that.


Lecture 169 - Hollywood and The Hays Code - 1934-1968

For more than three decades during the golden age of Hollywood, the content of American movies was subject to Will H Hays' Motion Picture Production Code, a strict set of rules that stipulated what could, and more importantly what couldn't, be portrayed on screen. How did the code come about? Who made the rules? Who pushed back against them? And what brought about its demise?

Join WEA tutor, writer and teacher Christopher Budd to find out more!

Download the Q&A, list of books for further reading and forthcoming courses by the speaker here

Video transcript

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Thank you very much. Thank you for having me. Nice to see so many familiar faces. I can see a few.

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Good evening to everyone. So I'm going to speak to you about Hollywood and the Hayes code this evening, which you may have heard about.

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You may have heard about it being called the production code of the HAYES code. Well, look at what it is.

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How it came about and what the push back against it was. Why am I thinking about this now? Why did this weird topic jump into my head?

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I read an article in Screen rant a few weeks ago. Someone was talking about the sopranos, the TV show The Sopranos.

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And the the writer of the article said, The Sopranos was great, but when we look back on it, it's quite problematic.

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Because lots of the guys in the sopranos do quite bad things and they never get punished for them.

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And that's a problem. And I thought that's kind of that sort of the point of the sopranos, isn't it?

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But it made me think about This time in Hollywood when the the most the most important thing was that films have a moral, a moral center to them that films, that the baddies get punished, nothing untoward happens.

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And it made me feel like perhaps there's a move to push that sort of censorship back in that direction.

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The period we're talking about, the period where the haze code determined what could and couldn't be seen on screen lasts from about the early thirtys to the late sixtys.

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To show you what it is or sort of what it was. I want to Share with you this image.

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This image comes from

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This image comes from the, 1,941 Hollywood stills show, if everyone can see that.

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But it's made by a photographer would Al Whitey Schafer. He said the production code was in full effect at this time.

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He basically, rather than enter as still in the still show of a film they had taken he created this image to illustrate all the things that weren't allowed in cinema at the time.

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And he entered it in the in the still show as a as a kind of joke. But it backfired on him because of course it was pulled from the Hollywood still show and he was threatened with a fine.

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So it was which it sort of proves the point that these things weren't allowed. They're not allowed on the screen and they're not allowed, they're not allowed in the still show either.

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But it's as good as any item we've got that illustrates what the what was and wasn't allowed during this during this era.

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I think you can probably, you can probably read them. Law defeated. I won't, we won't do all of them.

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Lord defeated is a crucial one. There's a dead policeman down at the bottom there. Various types of weapons, gambling, exposed bosom, drinking and narcotics.

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It's a, it's a reasonably comprehensive list of things that weren't allowed on screen at the time.

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It's important to remember that at the time there was no other form of cinema certification.

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All films were for everybody. And so the attempts to create the code by which films would be allowed or not allowed, was a way to make every film accessible to any, to anybody, kids, adults, anything.

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There was no censorship as we as we know it. We had it in Britain, but in Hollywood they didn't.

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To examine, I think why Why the code was needed in the first place, I think we need to, we need to go back up to a few years before it began.

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There was always feeling as soon as as soon as the film industry moved out to Hollywood, there was always feeling that it might be a lawless and awful place.

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The film industry started in New, in, in New York in New Jersey just across the river and place called Fort Lee.

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Very quickly the filmmakers decided that California would be a better place. Let me get rid of this image.

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So you can see my lovely face. Very quickly they thought California would be a better place but because you get year round sun and the Edison company protected its patents on filmmaking equipment in New York and you had to pay dues to the Edison people if you were going to make a film but they wouldn't pursue you to Hollywood.

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So the filmmaking people all went out to Hollywood. And it began to get a reputation for being a bit lawless.

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There was nothing there when they moved there. They were just orange groves and they built this built Los Angeles sort of from nothing.

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In the early twenties we get there's a few scandals that begin to feed into this public perception that Hollywood itself is a dangerous and lawless place.

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First of all, there's this guy. William Desmond Taylor. Who is a popular actor and director from the silent period he seems to have a mysterious past that people don't know much about.

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He seems to have abandoned his family years earlier and reinvented himself. He's killed. He's murdered under really mysterious circumstances in Hollywood in 1,922.

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It's Unbelievably, it's still an official cold case to this day, the William Desmond Taylor murder.

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He may have been, He may have been helping the actress Mabel Normand with her cocaine addiction and her drug dealers may have may have killed him.

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He may have been having an affair with a young actress called Mary Miles Minter and her mother may have she was in the frame for potentially having killed them at 1 point loads of loads of theories loads of scandal none of it proven but it doesn't look good this guy's just got randomly killed and his bungalow in Hollywood.

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That's 1,922. Just before that. There's a more.

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There's a. A better known scandal. I think here's a face that you may recognize.

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This is the face of Roscoe Arbuckle, who was also known as Batty Arbuckle, which he hated.

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So we try and remember him as Roscoe. Roscoe Arbuckle was accused in the end of 1,921.

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Of killing a young actress called Virginia Rappee. The story was that he had thrown a party in a, in a hotel in Hollywood that she had gone to and the story was that then that had attacked her, potentially raped her, she then died of abrupt bladder and peritonitis.

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And it didn't look good. For Roscoe, apart from everybody around him said, that's not what happened.

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There was multiple witnesses to prove that actually she was taken ill at the party and He tried to help her.

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And but of course, no good deed, goes unpunished. He's, he's on trial for murder 3 times.

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They can't make it stick to him because, well, because it's seems he didn't do it.

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But there's at the end of the third trial the jury actually right give him a handwritten apology saying your name's been tracked with the Mard and we hope you can get your career back and so forth but of course He's never going to get his career back.

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He's ruined heavily in debt, never really works again. And then, would die of a heart attack aged just 46 in 1,933.

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But it's an absolute media forore. The press go wild. This big fat Roscoe has squashed this young girl, you know it's a it's sensationalist it's it's it's awful it's the awful low stand of journalism.

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So there's this perception. That maybe, that maybe Hollywood is this law, law, lawless, amoral place.

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And it needs cleaning up if the people are this awful maybe the movies are awful too. So in, 1921.

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37 states introduced film. Censorship bills. Almost a hundred in individual bills in that year alone.

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Now the Supreme Court had ruled as early as 1,915 that the first amendment the right to free speech didn't apply to movies So you couldn't just say, I'm saying I'm doing this in my movie.

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It's First Amendment can't stop me. It's important that they didn't think that.

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So when if a movie was objectionable to one of these Yeah, we've got these 50 states and the movie is objectionable to one of the boards in one of the in one of the states it won't get shown in that state.

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So you're in a position where you may possibly have to re-cut and resubmit movies.

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In every single state where you want them to be shown. And if you think of America of the early twentieth century, those 50 states are more like 50 different countries with very different moral positions on all sorts of different things.

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It's still a segregated country. It's there's, there's all sorts of divisions.

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Big chunks of the country are very religious, big chunks of the country aren't.

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You can see Also, of reasons why the individual states might have very different reasons for wanting some things to appear in films and some things not wanting, not to bear in films.

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There's been calls during this period for there to be. Federal censorship of films send the Senator Henry Myers of Montana says in in the Senate he says that Hollywood is a colony of these people where debauchery, riotous living, drunkenness, rivalry, dissipation, free love seem to be conspicuous.

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This i think this thing that he says is this is the link between the people the place and the films I think.

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This idea in the public consciousness that Hollywood itself is somehow amoral and that may make the films amoral.

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So the industry doesn't want to deal with 50. 50 different states and 50 different, different censorship boards.

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They decide what they're going to do is beat everybody to the punch and set up their own self regulation system where they will Look at their own films and they will create a code that they will that they will then decide.

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The So I'm just, someone's got a completely black screen. I hope I've just taken that image off but hopefully you can see me.

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I'll respond to.

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Okay. Okay. So they decide that, The thing to do is self-censorship.

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They create a code and then they Well, put someone in charge who will then look and say, yes, these films are obeying the code and this film is good and that way these films are all suitable for everyone and everyone from kids to grandma's can all come in and see the film because It's the dominant in dominant entertainment industry.

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You don't want to be cutting off half your potential audience. So they establish the emotion picture producers and distributors of America, the MPPDA, and they appoint this fellow who I will show you.

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Where is it? Here is.

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Their point this fellow, Will H Hayes, as. As the, as the head of the MPPDA.

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Here's the former postmaster. He's a Presbyterian elder. And he's a former head of the Republican National Committee.

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He was President Harding's campaign manager. He's delivered the White House for the for the Republicans.

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So it doesn't quite look like he's got it in him does it but he's done all those things He gets paid $100,000 a year, which is the equivalent of about 2 million dollars a year today.

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So it's a serious, serious job.

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One of his first acts as the head of the NPPDA is he institutes a lifetime ban on Roscoe Arbuckle.

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Says his films can never be shown again. Roscoe Arbuckle has just been in court.

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For murder 3 times and has been completely exonerated. It's been found completely innocent. But so much mud has stuck to him.

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That they decide. No, we'll have a lifetime bound on him. It's all about the perception of cleaning, of cleaning house.

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In in his autobiography much later, Hay said that it was the studio's idea to sacrifice Roscoe Arbuckle.

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But to make it without it having to come from the studio. So he's put there to give absolutely give the impression.

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To, that he's cleaning house. The ban on Roscoe is lifted 8 months later.

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Under protest, but local film boards around the country enforce it voluntarily. Roscoe's damaged goods.

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So in 1924. He develops the formula, the haze develops the formula. This isn't quite the haze code yet.

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The haze code is a few years in the future. But the formula is 13 elements that should be avoided.

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Films. They're not saying Definitely avoid them, but these are things that should be avoided in films.

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They're quite broad, so the formula includes films that deal with sex in an improper manner. Not sure what is a proper or improper manner.

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This one is crucial. Films that make vice attractive. Films that make gambling and drunkenness attractive films that might instruct the week in methods of committing crime.

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It's almost a ridicule public official. Films that offend religious beliefs.

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There's a few more, but those are the those are the crucial ones. You can see these are very broad.

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And not everybody has the same religious beliefs, not everybody has the same view of public officials perhaps. It's The whole code is based on a morality.

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But it's a very broad generalized morality. There are things in it. We're not supposed to have nakedness or prolonged passionate love scenes.

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There are things that are that are sort of matters of taste, I suppose, to some degree. But a big part of it is this is this, this moral imperative that films and certainly the one about that might instruct the week and methods of committing a crime.

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They were absolutely adamant that if that you might see a film and the film might actually teach you how to be a criminal and it might lower your morals and you might go and become a criminal because you'd seen someone in a film, you might become a criminal because you'd seen someone in a film do it.

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So that's the formula. That sticks for a while and then in 1,927 Hayes proposed a list of don't and be careful.

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The committee that put this together include representatives from MGM from Fox and from Paramount Fox aren't twentieth century Fox yet by this point.

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They're just Fox and Paramount. So Top industry guys are getting involved and the same and they are all guys as well unfortunately and they're saying yes we'll join in with this and then we will we will have all signed up.

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To, to, to the list. So the don't and be careful is a much longer list.

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Don't think, but it's broadly based on the same. The same list of the of the formula.

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So it includes things like profanity as in their Any sort of licentious or suggested nudity, they say, even in silhouette, any any inference of sex perversion.

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Which is an interesting sentence in and of itself because what one person considers perversion is there's going to be gray areas.

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Any sex relationships between the white and black races and I stress that that is a quote So this is a really important, a really important part of it.

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We're still dealing with a segregated America at this point. So there is not to be Even the hint of a relationship between a black person and a white person on the screen.

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And certainly not a love scene, even even a tame one. That is not going to be. That is not going to be in movies at all because that's not going to wash.

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And that's not going to wash. Well, where's that not going to wash in the south?

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And move so that's not gonna that's not gonna happen for movies under under the code. Ridicule of the clergy is in there as well.

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That's an important one. And then the Be Careful list includes things that you should be cautious about showing and that includes things like the use of firearms, theft, robbery, safe cracking, dynamiting of trains, mines, buildings, and they've added to that having in mind the effect which a too detailed description of these may have upon the moron.

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So the more running question is the person that might watch it be stupid and think I could dynamite a train.

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Techniques of committing murder. Simpathy for criminals. Be careful about making synthetic criminals.

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Of course, this is a moral code. Attitude towards public characters and institutions. Titles or scenes having to do with law enforcement or law enforcing officers.

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So there's clearly a really practical element to the, to the, to the Dumps and Big Air Force.

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Much concerned with the idea that people may copy. I mean, it could be criminals that they saw on screen.

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But it's also one of Quite conservative morals, it's an attempt to stop the films.

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Being having any sort of license element to them, that may reflect on the people that made the films and that may lower the moral tone of anyone that sees them.

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Let's get rid of hayes i feel like he's been staring at us from the corner of my screen.

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Watching over me to make sure I don't bridge the code. The full code, the full haze code.

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Is implemented in 1,930. So what happens is, the editor of the trade paper motion picture Herald, who's a guy called Martin Quigley. He's a Catholic layman.

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And he gets together with a Jesuit priest. I know this sounds like the beginning of a joke, but I promise it's not.

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The brilliantly named father Daniel A. Lord, he's a Jesuit priest. So he and Martin quickly get together and they write a code of standards and submit it to the studios.

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Father Lord is particularly worried about sound and the effect that the the arrival of sound may have. He writes later, Silent Smuck had been bad.

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Vocal smut cried to the senses for vengeance. So quickly and, quickly and Lord, meet with Studio Heads and there's some revisions, but then finally the MPDAA and the studios agree to implement.

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The code. They are afraid that if they don't implement it, someone will come up with an even stone or a more stringent code and they'll have to implement it.

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Now I've got an image of the text of the code. The full code is quite long. Let me I've got a page a bit here which I can show you which might be quite interesting.

00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:12.000
So the full code itself is quite long. It's got the, the document has a list of reasons for the code and so forth.

00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:24.000
It's basically based around these 3 general principles. No picture shall be produced that will lower the moral standards of those who see it, hence the sympathy of of the audience should never be thrown to the side of crime, wrongdoing, evil or sin.

00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:32.000
That's part one. Part 2 is correct standards of life subject only to the requirements of drama and entertainment should be presented.

00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:45.000
Well, correct standards of life. Who's correct standards of whose life? I'm the third one is law, natural or human shall not be ridiculed nor nor shall sympathy be created for its violation.

00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:51.000
So the code is emphasizing traditional values. Sex outside marriage always had to be. Presented as bad.

00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:57.000
Any any same-sex activity that's totally not allowed, that's off the table.

00:19:57.000 --> 00:20:05.000
All crime has to be punished without sympathy. All authority figures have to be respected, judges, policemen, etc.

00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:12.000
They can be individually corrupt as long as the film makes it clear that they're the exception to the rule that the institution is good.

00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:22.000
The clergy can't be made fun of. Or be bad is. The audience should always know right from wrong and they should and they should feel that they know that.

00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:28.000
Now of course, almost immediately there's a push back.

00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:33.000
And almost immediately there's non-enforcement. The board have to look at 500 films a year.

00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:40.000
They've only got a very small staff. One of the very first films that they look at is and I'll share a few posters here.

00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:46.000
And one of the very first films they look at

00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:53.000
Is the Blue Angel. Monday and Dietrich in the Blue Angel.

00:20:53.000 --> 00:21:04.000
And, they pass it intact. The MP, the NPDAA, NPDA, the California sensor takes a look at it and says no it's indecent.

00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:13.000
So right from the very beginning you've got you've got the code not even actually working to deter to deter in the individual censorship boards in individual states.

00:21:13.000 --> 00:21:20.000
Lots of filmmakers flout the code initially and several publications speak out against it. So there's a magazine called The Nation.

00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:31.000
And they point out they say if law and justice are presented as the same thing. Then you couldn't make a film about the Boston Tea Party.

00:21:31.000 --> 00:21:37.000
Because all those guys that tipped with that T in the sea, they were all breaking the law. So under the under the code they should all be punished.

00:21:37.000 --> 00:21:44.000
But actually they don't get punished. They create a nation, the nation in which we're now watching this film.

00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:47.000
Likewise, you wouldn't be able to make a sympathetic film about the suffragettes, for example.

00:21:47.000 --> 00:21:53.000
The suffragettes were all, were all criminals, so they all have to be punished at the end of the film.

00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:59.000
So this idea that law and justice are the same thing is something that filmmakers have trouble with immediately.

00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:08.000
In 1931 a screenwriter who's anonymous says in the Hollywood reporter the Hayes moral code is not even a joke, says in the Hollywood reporter, the Hayes moral code is not even a joke anymore, it's just a memory.

00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:14.000
Notice that he calls it the hay's moral code. It's, it's not Gorbachev, it's just with the hayescope, but he knows.

00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:21.000
They know it's an open, it's an openly discussed thing that it's a that it's a code based on morality.

00:22:21.000 --> 00:22:32.000
Now, even before it gets really implemented, some filmmakers go to go to some lengths to sort of protect themselves against it.

00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:41.000
I want to show you a very short clip. This clip is from the beginning of the movie Scarface, the first Scarface.

00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:46.000
This is, 1,932, the first Scarface by Howard Hawks.

00:22:46.000 --> 00:22:50.000
It's based on the novel Armitage Trail, which is the Life of Al Capone.

00:22:50.000 --> 00:23:01.000
So it's about a bunch of gangsters doing a bunch of gangster stuff and they they're well-dressed and they're cool and they're sexy, they're everything you want gangsters to be.

00:23:01.000 --> 00:23:05.000
Under the haze code, gangsters can't be cool and sexy and get away with anything.

00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:17.000
They can't be brave. We have to come down hard on them So. There's an absolute moral panic about this film, and it's heavily cut.

00:23:17.000 --> 00:23:47.000
Even to even to screen it in, 1,932. And Hawkes has to put this little disclaimer at the beginning of the film.

00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:31.000
That's quite high handed stuff isn't it when you read that the movie is essentially retrospectively re-pitching itself as a social conscience picture.

00:24:31.000 --> 00:24:36.000
Look at these criminals, aren't they awful? What are you going to do about it? The film never takes that tone for an hour and a half.

00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:43.000
It's a load of gangsters with Tommy guns shooting stuff up. It's exactly what you want from a 1930 s gangster picture.

00:24:43.000 --> 00:24:45.000
But Hawks has had to stick that card on at the beginning of the, at the beginning of the film.

00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:56.000
As a way of, as a way of basically saying, we're not We don't sympathize with this guy.

00:24:56.000 --> 00:25:14.000
And, and if you do, you're the baddie and basically right to your right to your congressman and say I want these gangsters out of course it's complete it's can't it's it's it's awful he doesn't really believe that it's he sees the code coming and he's getting his defense in first.

00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:20.000
But he has to also change. Make an important change. To what happens to the main character in Scarface eventually.

00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:33.000
So at the very end of the film, he is he's holed up in his hideout and you're surrounded by the police.

00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:42.000
All his gang members are all dead. And this is how this is this is the denumont of the movie.

00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:59.000
And that

00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:05.000
No suit! There's your gun! Look at him, I'm all over. I can no gun.

00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:13.000
See, I, give me a, what you got, I know. Who you ever respect to? I got nobody, I'm all alone.

00:26:13.000 --> 00:26:18.000
Little boy's gun. Thank you, Lord God.

00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:24.000
Steel showers don't work. I should have to bet. I come back, give me a breakaway.

00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:27.000
You haven't covered the, I can't do that.

00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:35.000
Give me papers. I told you you shop this way Get you in the jam without a gun.

00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:38.000
Yes, we like a yellow rat.

00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:51.000
Gram in the bed.

00:26:51.000 --> 00:27:00.000
The crucial thing about his death is that he dies a coward. He loses his nerve and he dies a coward so that we absolutely don't respect him.

00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:05.000
At the end, he has to be proven that he's been a coward all along. And that's the the code insists on that.

00:27:05.000 --> 00:27:09.000
He can't he can't go out in a place of glory like in the Scarface remake.

00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:15.000
So it's really, it's a really good bit of instruction that in how the code is working.

00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:24.000
I around the same sort of time a year later in 33, it's slightly, a slightly different approach to the code on screen.

00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:29.000
This is a moment from the Marx Brothers film, Duck Soup. This is a very short clip.

00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:40.000
They're having They're having a little bit of fun here with the fact that married couples in movies when the code comes in aren't allowed to have aren't allowed to share a double bed.

00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:58.000
So the Marks Brothers squeeze in a little joke at the expense of the code.

00:27:58.000 --> 00:28:03.000

00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:16.000

00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:26.000
Chico can't share a bed with his wife, but he can share a bed with his horse is essentially what the Marx brothers are telling us at that point and it's a it's a bit of fun being poked at the at the code.

00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:41.000
There's a 1933 bit of research done by the pain fund who are private organization they analyze the effect of movies on children and it leads to the publication of a book called our movie made children by Henry James Foreman.

00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:51.000
Which concludes that the movies have a massive effect on children. But it's written in quite an emotional style and it's, it's not easy to read.

00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:58.000
But this is, there is very much this concern about kids seeing movies, and the effect might have on them.

00:28:58.000 --> 00:29:13.000
And then by mid 1934, the production code has grown teeth. You have to, by 34 you have to get a seal from the production code administration and products the PCA seal looks like.

00:29:13.000 --> 00:29:19.000
Whoops, looks like that. All films will have to have 1 one of these.

00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:35.000
And without it, you won't be able to release your, release your film. The studio's own all the cinemas at this point, so it's a it's it's exactly they can they can make that happen and it's it's still an important part of self-pleasing.

00:29:35.000 --> 00:29:49.000
In 1934, Joseph Breen becomes head of the production code administration. Here's a picture of Joseph Green looking Quite stern.

00:29:49.000 --> 00:29:54.000
So Breen becomes head of the, of the PCA at this point. He's known for his sternness.

00:29:54.000 --> 00:30:10.000
So it's important to remember that the scheme is always voluntary. But the industry stick to it to avoid having anything more harder and more harder, harder and more draconian imposed on them from outside.

00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:18.000
So lots of films. Lots of films have to be, have to be altered. Going into the, into the forties.

00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:20.000
The film Rebecca and I've got I can share posters as I do this bit.

00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:37.000
The film Rebecca comes out in 1,940. That's it's Adapted from the novel, of course, in the novel, Maxim De Wenter killed his first wife and got away with it.

00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:48.000
In the film adaptation that would breach the code. So it's changed. So that, she died in an accident and he merely covered it up, which is not quite as much of a crime and permissible.

00:30:48.000 --> 00:31:02.000
Under the code. What about What about Casablanca? I, which everybody knows, from, 1,942, Michael Cartiz.

00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:19.000
Breen insisted that the idea that Captain Renault was a sexual predator and exploited the young women in Casablanca be made less explicit and he also insisted that Rick the idea that Rick and Elsa may have slept together in Paris because she was still married to Paul Henry's character, couldn't be in the film.

00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:21.000
And because of the code, the ending has to be the way it is. Rick and Elsa could never be rewarded for their extra marital relationship.

00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:43.000
That she has to go off. She has to go off with the husband. Probably the most famous bit of pushing back against the against the code is this movie, which is not worth looking at a clip of.

00:31:43.000 --> 00:31:52.000
Poster kind of tells the whole story. This is Excuse me, just make this a bit smaller so you can see it.

00:31:52.000 --> 00:32:00.000
This is the outlaw. From, 1943, directed by Howard Hughes.

00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:05.000
It was, they made it in 1,941, but it's not released widely till 46.

00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:06.000
Howard Hughes deliberately stirred up controversy, made the film seem like it was going to be much sexier than it was.

00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:21.000
It's actually a pretty tame retelling of the Billy the Kids story. But Hughes knew that if he advertised it with quite a lot of Jane Russell's cleavage, he would make the film seem much more scandalous than it actually was.

00:32:21.000 --> 00:32:30.000
He himself tried to get it banned at the same time that he was trying to get it released because he knew that all publicity is good publicity.

00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:40.000
And at 1 point it was released in 43 without a production code seal.

00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:46.000
Well, that eventually RKO release it and it makes them over 5 million US dollars, which is a, which is a pretty tidy sum.

00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:57.000
But it's, It's the beginning of filmmakers really pushing back I think against the code and sort of manipulating what they can and can't get a filmmakers really pushing back I think against the code and sort of manipulating what they can and can't get away with.

00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:06.000
Also going into the, Going into the into the forties, there's also an influence from British movies.

00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:15.000
So the the otherwise tame Gainsborough pictures, we have the wicked lady from 1,945 and I've got a very I can show you a very brief clip from the wicked lady.

00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:21.000
The wicked lady is the top British film, the top film of the British box office, the top British film at the British Proxopus in 1,946.

00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:31.000
Still one of the best performing British films ever to adjust for inflation. Gets in massive censorship trouble.

00:33:31.000 --> 00:33:41.000
One, because the costumes display too much cleavage. And the piece the production code administration notes on the wicked lady is the first time the word cleavage is used to refer to a woman's bust.

00:33:41.000 --> 00:33:50.000
That's an interesting fact for you, but also because the main character is quite immoral and enjoys it.

00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:56.000
And it's a huge problem and big chunks of it have to be big chunks of it have to be re-shot.

00:33:56.000 --> 00:34:04.000
Let me. Show you a little bit of the wicked lady so you can see what I what I mean so a sequence like this where she shows how How immoral she is.

00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:14.000
It's very troublesome for the American market.

00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:21.000
Come in.

00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:26.000
Morning, Barbara. Oh, you. I gave orders I wasn't to be disturbed.

00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:31.000
You have to get up sometime.

00:34:31.000 --> 00:34:40.000
I want to speak to you about Ralph. Not first thing in the morning, please.

00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:44.000
There's a meeting downstairs about the highwayman. What about them? They're blaming Ralph.

00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:50.000
For Why? For being too lenient on the bench.

00:34:50.000 --> 00:35:01.000
What am I supposed to do about it? Barbara, he needs your help and understanding if you took a little interest in his work.

00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:05.000
What's happened between you and Ralph?

00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:16.000
Nothing. That's just the trouble. I'm sick to death of entertaining his dreary guests, of listening to their endless discussions on the quarter sessions, poachers, tenants, crops.

00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:21.000
I'm sick of hearing the same family prayers morning after morning of sitting in the skeleton pew every Sunday of the year.

00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:25.000
Most of all, I'm sick of Ralph.

00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:31.000
You mean you don't love him anymore? I never have.

00:35:31.000 --> 00:35:42.000
But you took him from me. I knew. Could resist anything that belonged to somebody else. I thought it would be amusing to be Lady Skeleton to have money, jewels, lead a gay, exciting life.

00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:49.000
What Ralph thinks about is his duty. I hate him for it. And you pretended to love him.

00:35:49.000 --> 00:35:52.000
You knew how I loved him. Yet you took him from me. He let me humiliate myself at your wedding.

00:35:52.000 --> 00:36:03.000
He persuaded me to stay here when, when every instinct urged me to go away. I'm getting a little tired of having you remind me of mistakes I'd sooner forget.

00:36:03.000 --> 00:36:18.000
I think the point with the wicked lady is The immorality is more a problem than the cleavage, although both get written about extensively in the in the PCA notes, production code administration notes for that particular film.

00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:28.000
Bob, British films are making their way into the American market at this point. There's also going into the forties and fifties All this all the film studios are weakened.

00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:37.000
TV has come along and people aren't going to the cinema as much. There's a court case in 1,948 that says that the studios have to sell off their cinema chains.

00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:44.000
It's a they've got they've become too much of a monopoly. Now they don't own their cinema chains anymore.

00:36:44.000 --> 00:36:50.000
Those cinemas go independent, those cinemas now don't need to insist on there being a PCA seal attached to the film.

00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:54.000
They can scream whatever they want. The problem is now the studios, not the cinemas.

00:36:54.000 --> 00:37:03.000
So that changes everything. Also, foreign films aren't bound by the code. So there's an Italian anthology film called The Ways of Love.

00:37:03.000 --> 00:37:13.000
That comes out I can show you a poster of that the ways of love comes out in that 19 in 1,950.

00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:15.000
And it's it's distributed in the US and it has one sequence in it that seems to mock the nativity.

00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:35.000
So the New York censorship board ban it. And there's a core case and the court case overturns the 1,915 ruling that says films aren't protected by the first amendment and decides that films are protected by the First Amendment after all.

00:37:35.000 --> 00:37:54.000
So that really weakens the production code. And and all arguments for censorship really so so attached to that to the to the second amendment are the British films, come through, we get a film like

00:37:54.000 --> 00:38:05.000
Like victim, from 1,961, Basil Deerden, or, at the same time, a taste of honey, the Tony Richardson film.

00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:06.000
They both portray sympathetic homosexuals. They both portrayed sex outside marriage even childbirth outside marriage.

00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:28.000
So I mean victim in its in its presentation of a of a gay character. It can't. It can't go that far, but it's clearly what the what the story is about and it's breaking taboos and it's showing things on screen.

00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:34.000
And presenting storylines that are sort of prohibited by the code. But it's going to get released in America.

00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:47.000
American filmmakers start to push back as well. Amazingly, some like it hot isn't given a production code seal because of it's themes and it didn't really hurt the film.

00:38:47.000 --> 00:38:56.000
But the guy that pushes back the most is Otto Preminger. He pushes back, the man with the golden arm in 1,955, portrays drug use.

00:38:56.000 --> 00:39:06.000
In a some semi-sympathetic way. Anatomy of a murder from 1,959 talks quite openly about murder and rape.

00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:28.000
In a way that is that has not been not permissible on the screen up to that point. And then Sydney Lumette makes a film in 1,964 called The Pawnbroker, which is a film about the Holocaust and it's and it's quite dark and quite difficult to watch in places, but it's the It's the first one of the very first American

00:39:28.000 --> 00:39:33.000
films. To contain any sort of nudity. And it's given special dispensation.

00:39:33.000 --> 00:39:41.000
By the MPAA because of its artistic merit because it's about a serious topic it's allowed to break the code.

00:39:41.000 --> 00:39:54.000
In other places. So by 1963 the the head of the the NPBDA and now just the MPAA.

00:39:54.000 --> 00:39:59.000
And the new head of the MPA is Eric Johnson. He's, he's liberalized things a bit.

00:39:59.000 --> 00:40:06.000
But he dies in 63 and there's a bit of a power struggle and he's eventually replaced by a guy called, a guy called Jack.

00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:20.000
Jack Valenti, Jack Valenti. And the outcome of the power struggle is very much going to be the outcome of whether the code carries on and whether whether it can still work in the new world.

00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:27.000
One of the things they do is they create the the suggested for mature audiences label. So when.

00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:34.000
So when who's afraid of Virginia Wolf, the Mike Nichols fell, comes out in, that's that same year.

00:40:34.000 --> 00:40:44.000
That's the first film to have suggested from a your audience says nobody is tasked with actually enforcing that and making sure that only mature audience is going to see the film.

00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:59.000
It's just a suggestion. It's the beginning of a sort of admitting that that the things things are changing and that we're gonna there's going to need to be different classifications of films something they've been really reluctant to do up to this point.

00:40:59.000 --> 00:41:07.000
The same year, 66, so they come up with a list of of 11 points, 11 things that will mean you get you get suggested for mature audiences.

00:41:07.000 --> 00:41:18.000
The same year Michelangelo and Taoni directs, blow up.

00:41:18.000 --> 00:41:24.000
I was going to say the British film blow up, but is it a British film? It's, it's US financed.

00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:32.000
Italian directed made in Britain block, but crucially the money has come. The money has come from MGM in the States to make blob.

00:41:32.000 --> 00:41:40.000
Now blow up is one of the, it's one of the first films, screened, if not the first film screened in America, to contain full frontal nudity.

00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:48.000
Very briefly, but it's there. So it's denied a production code sale. It's denied a sale and, and they say this isn't, and this isn't going to be screened.

00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:57.000
So what MGM do? Is they create a special subsidiary called Premier Productions.

00:41:57.000 --> 00:42:06.000
Premier Productions aren't a member of the MPAA. So they can release blow up and they can release it into a cinema or cinemas that they don't own.

00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:09.000
And I mean that's it's such an obvious loophole. It's crazy that someone hasn't thought of doing that before.

00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:24.000
But the fact that it works is I think a sign of of, of changing. Of changing times and how the public are beginning to want.

00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:30.000
Different, different fad that beginning to one things, the type of stories that were told before the code.

00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:37.000
The public are beginning and again to sort of have a hankering for more serious stuff and the code is just not gonna it's not going to be able to deliver that.

00:42:37.000 --> 00:42:47.000
So that's 66 very rapidly after that the whole thing sort of collapsed and in 1,968 the whole code is abandoned.

00:42:47.000 --> 00:42:55.000
And the NPA, instead of having one code that all films need to adhere to, they create, their system of film.

00:42:55.000 --> 00:43:06.000
Ratings, which is G for everyone, M for suggested mature. For no accompanied under 16 s and x.

00:43:06.000 --> 00:43:18.000
Which is which is for over 18 s only x is the only strict one the rest are all optional the rest you can ignore the x for over 18 is the is the one that you absolutely have to have to abide by.

00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:30.000
And the very, the following year, just just a year later, we get this film, Midnight Cowboy.

00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:36.000
Which is released in it's released in 68 and it's a recent 69. I think it wins the Oscar.

00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:46.000
It's raised in 69 and it wins the Best Picture Oscar. So it's the very first Oscar Best Picture Oscar winner that's X rated.

00:43:46.000 --> 00:43:57.000
Of course. There haven't been any x rated problems up to that so it's a bit of it's a It's an almost meaningless accolade, but it just goes to show that.

00:43:57.000 --> 00:44:12.000
Okay, with that rating. And therefore that limited audience can still win can still win best picture. Important to remember that this new system of film ratings that should the G's, the M's, the A's and so forth.

00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:29.000
That is the system. The We and Britain have had since the 19 teens. So they, the Americans basically spent the best part of 50 years trying to implement this code and trying to, trying to sort of accommodate.

00:44:29.000 --> 00:44:52.000
All the questions of taste and morality. And they end up with a solution which we've had all along which is that some films after some audiences and other films are for other audiences and it's probably better not to mix them, which seems like an incredibly simple solution and it's the one they finally arrive at at the end of the sixties and at that point the code is no more.

00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:57.000
And that's pretty much the end of the story. I promised Fiona that I would, draw to a close at quarter to so that we can take questions and I've seen loads of questions popping up.

00:44:57.000 --> 00:45:08.000
So. I'm happy to field them now. I think I think managed to time that quite right.

00:45:08.000 --> 00:45:09.000

00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:12.000
It's a we spent a lot there. So thank you for your thank you for your attention. Across that whole story.

00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:18.000
There's a there's a lot gone on so maybe we can dig into some more of it with the questions if I know the answers and those that I don't I promise I'll go away and try and find out.

00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:27.000
Yeah, thanks very much Christopher. We will go straight to some questions. Now, I'm going to start from the top.

00:45:27.000 --> 00:45:35.000
No, this was a question from Sue. Obviously the code started to evolve, thought was it, 1,930 you said?

00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:40.000
Was this still the time of silent movies?

00:45:40.000 --> 00:46:04.000
It's the code comes in just after, silent pictures. So you've got your, the first one is the, the first kind of Inkling of the code is the the the the formula which is 1,924 silent movies really lasted about 27 You get that very, very rapid transition to sound pictures in 27 because nobody wants to be left behind.

00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:30.000
Still producing silent films the public the moment the public see talkies in 27 almost every film in 1928 they're almost no talk is released it happens happens really fast the transition happens happens really really quickly so the formula the 13 elements to avoid he introduces that in 24 the Dunston be careful is coming in 27 which is the sort of transitional point The code comes in in 30.

00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:35.000
But it's not really enforced till you have to have the production code seal, which is 34.

00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:44.000
So we kind of measure the real implementation of the code from from from 34 so it's definitely the beginnings Do do take place, during, during silent pictures.

00:46:44.000 --> 00:47:00.000
Yeah, it's, it's a, it's a great concern. Like I said at the beginning, the concern doesn't necessarily stem from the fact that the films are the evil or salacious or immoral.

00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:09.000
It really starts with the idea that the film makers and the film stars are out there in California doing a moral things and maybe that makes the films immoral.

00:47:09.000 --> 00:47:17.000
It stems from a kind of fear of the fear of the new to some degree. But there's definitely a whole sort of tranche of.

00:47:17.000 --> 00:47:24.000
More, more sort of grown-up. Dramas that are referred to as pre code, pre code films.

00:47:24.000 --> 00:47:37.000
And they're normally all talkies, so there's a period from 27 to 34 that's sort of as precoat cinema where they can get away with a bit more and there are stories about infidelity.

00:47:37.000 --> 00:47:51.000
There's a very famous movies about, well, lots of them are about, simply about women having jobs, women in the workplace because of course the code when it comes in really reinforces the idea of traditional values.

00:47:51.000 --> 00:48:02.000
I think I think Betty Davis in an interview I'd sold up recently she says that what the code did was it took it took women away from being lawyers and judges and turned them all into housewives again because it's its traditional values.

00:48:02.000 --> 00:48:08.000
So there's a lot more interesting stuff happening in those precoat pictures for sure from the end of the science.

00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:13.000
I know that wasn't quite the question I've deviated a bit, but I always do.

00:48:13.000 --> 00:48:14.000

00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:19.000
Yeah. Thank you. Now a question from Ruth.

00:48:19.000 --> 00:48:26.000
Where any other of Hitchcock's films apart from Rebecca Sina's problematic?

00:48:26.000 --> 00:48:27.000
It's them to the

00:48:27.000 --> 00:48:36.000
Oh, that's a good. That's a good question. Not off the top of my head!

00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:41.000
Can I think of one really? I think Hitchcock was always quite good at playing the studio game.

00:48:41.000 --> 00:48:55.000
Oh yes, the someone just said the notorious kiss there is. So in what's the phone with with a Nazi hunting someone's gonna help me out with this no So that's great.

00:48:55.000 --> 00:49:04.000
I'm glad someone said the case because that's absolutely right. In the Hitchcock film notorious there's a Ingrid Bergman and Carrie Grant, they kiss.

00:49:04.000 --> 00:49:14.000
But the the haze code had said that a kiss can only be 3 s on screen maximum So H.Cop wants them to have a longer, a longer kiss.

00:49:14.000 --> 00:49:16.000
So the way they do it is they have lots of tiny little kisses and it goes on for about 10 min.

00:49:16.000 --> 00:49:32.000
They're sort of talking, guessing, talking, kissing, talking, kissing and it's really unnatural but it's hitchcock basically saying there you go not one of these kisses is more than 3 s long so he's having a little bit of he's having a little bit of fun with the with the code at that point.

00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:38.000
I think Hitchcock was clever enough to know. How to circumvent it and knock himself in too much trouble.

00:49:38.000 --> 00:49:44.000
He worked for so many different studios, Hitchcock was always considered a sort of a reasonably safe pair of hands.

00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:47.000
But I'm glad someone said that in the chat. All they said was the kiss and I knew exactly what they meant.

00:49:47.000 --> 00:49:58.000
So yeah, that's notorious, which is, it's just after the war actually 46 i think because it's about it's about escaped nazis.

00:49:58.000 --> 00:49:59.000

00:49:59.000 --> 00:50:04.000
Hmm. Okay, right, I've got a couple of questions from Stuart that I'm gonna sort of put to you together.

00:50:04.000 --> 00:50:08.000
So the first one is

00:50:08.000 --> 00:50:16.000
Well, it's a question. What is it? Was it possible to avoid the code by claiming a film was educational?

00:50:16.000 --> 00:50:27.000
And also, are you aware of any substantial move back to tighter control in the U.S.A. today.

00:50:27.000 --> 00:50:35.000
I think, so to take the first, take the first part of that. I don't think so.

00:50:35.000 --> 00:50:53.000
I think there are cases where a film would be where the code would be applied more likely on films. If they, if they NPA thought they had particular merit and I think we get that with the, with the porn broker because it's that has a bit of nudity in it, but the nudity is not, it's not supposed to be.

00:50:53.000 --> 00:51:13.000
Titilating nudity for one of the better work. It's it's it's quite dark nudity and the whole film is about the Holocaust so it's like the sense of drop, it casts a slightly blind eye to that little bit and passes that and that's That's very much like the system we had in the UK, particularly when John Trevelyan was in charge

00:51:13.000 --> 00:51:17.000
of the BBFC, he would often give a film. Be more lenient with a movie.

00:51:17.000 --> 00:51:33.000
If he thought the movie was had artistic merit. Rather than you know rather than it just being it just being something cheap and cheerful entertainment.

00:51:33.000 --> 00:51:39.000
Certainly a few of the, of the more explicit. Swedish movies things like I am curious yellow and stuff that come through at the end of the sixtys.

00:51:39.000 --> 00:51:52.000
That are sort of ostensibly sort of educating about sex and so forth. But they don't really pop up until the code is kind of on its knees anyway.

00:51:52.000 --> 00:51:58.000
So it's hard to know if somebody would have made an I am curious yellow kind of 5 or 10 years.

00:51:58.000 --> 00:52:08.000
Or 20 years previous. So I don't think there was an exemption for educational, but there were exemptions for some unofficial exemptions for artistic merit I think to some degree.

00:52:08.000 --> 00:52:09.000

00:52:09.000 --> 00:52:14.000
Last question I've, I've made.

00:52:14.000 --> 00:52:15.000

00:52:15.000 --> 00:52:21.000
And it was let me just find it are there any are you aware of any substantial move back towards tighter control in the U.S.A. today.

00:52:21.000 --> 00:52:31.000
I think in some ways with streaming and the fact that so many people watch movies at home now I think in some ways with streaming and the fact that so many people watch movies at home now, I think in some ways the the genie is well and truly out of the bottle.

00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:39.000
I mean, like I said at the beginning, this I got thinking about this because of a young, a young reviewers or a young kind of article writer's piece.

00:52:39.000 --> 00:52:47.000
About the sopranos, you know, saying the sopranos is problematic saying, isn't it problematic all these guys in the sopranos have got these young girlfriends and nobody ever comments on it?

00:52:47.000 --> 00:52:51.000
It's like, yeah, it's because they're It's because they're gangsters.

00:52:51.000 --> 00:52:56.000
It's because they're all from Mobs. We don't, the show doesn't need to take a moral stance on it.

00:52:56.000 --> 00:53:06.000
And I think there, I think there is a sense. In some circles that the our entertainment.

00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:21.000
Should should have a moral element to it and that we shouldn't see things that offend us or upset us but i don't think that's going to take hold across a sort of across a the sort of broader world of Hollywood because I just think It's impossible.

00:53:21.000 --> 00:53:31.000
The real, the real money is with streaming services now. And your Apple and your Netflix and so forth and your Disney Plus are so much more powerful.

00:53:31.000 --> 00:53:38.000
So I don't think they'll be. A push back to sort of say, well, yeah, that's right.

00:53:38.000 --> 00:53:49.000
The, the, you know, the bad is always need to be punished. Interestingly, it's in Chinese, and, and in Hong Kong cinema, that's always been the case.

00:53:49.000 --> 00:54:06.000
If you watch I know it's a silly example but if you watch any of the sort of Bruce Lee films and things from the from the seventys even though Bruce is a sort of campaigner for justice if he breaks the law he has to go to jail at the end you're like not Bruce Lee he's the good guy but it's it's sort of imperative that he go to jail.

00:54:06.000 --> 00:54:12.000
I don't think we're there anymore and I think the I think the moral certainty has gone out of it to some degree.

00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:22.000
I think it was always difficult. To maintain a code based on a set of morality because, like I said, during during the talk.

00:54:22.000 --> 00:54:36.000
You know, who's morality? Mine may be different to someone else's. It has to be you have to be able to make the claim that you're speaking on behalf of a nation and I think that is I think we're ever more polarized and ever more split up these days.

00:54:36.000 --> 00:54:38.000
I can't imagine anyone being able to take that position.

00:54:38.000 --> 00:54:47.000
Hmm, okay, thank you. And a question from David and what about sweating and films? Where certain words and breach of the code.

00:54:47.000 --> 00:55:01.000
Oh yeah, as early as the formula. Well, in the formula, which is 1924, so it's still in the silent days, one of the things that should be avoided is salacious sub titles.

00:55:01.000 --> 00:55:13.000
So I, I imagine, I imagine, Any kind of profanity in would be included in the 1927 Don't and be careful.

00:55:13.000 --> 00:55:21.000
The number one in notes and be careful is number one in dotes is pointed profanity by either title or lip.

00:55:21.000 --> 00:55:38.000
This includes the words God, Lord, Jesus and Christ, unless they be used reverently in connection with proper religious ceremonies, Hell Dam, God, spelt GAWD, and every other profane and vulgar expression, however it may be spelled.

00:55:38.000 --> 00:55:39.000

00:55:39.000 --> 00:55:41.000
So every other profane and vulgar expression. So Yeah so that's very much out.

00:55:41.000 --> 00:55:54.000
I It's not film, it's TV, but there's a there's an early episode of Star Trek on American TV where something awful has happened to Captain Kirk and the show has to end with him saying, let's get the hell out of here.

00:55:54.000 --> 00:56:09.000
And they got a massive push back on by the he was out to say hell or not and whether that could be whether that episode could be shown in the Bible Belt and whether people would push back and say, can't be shown in the Bible belt and whether people would push back and say, Captain, can't say hell on TV.

00:56:09.000 --> 00:56:15.000
And so if that's TV in the sixties you can imagine how much more strict the movies of the decades prior to that are.

00:56:15.000 --> 00:56:16.000
So for sure, yeah, absolutely.

00:56:16.000 --> 00:56:27.000
Yeah, and just coming back to the court again, this is from Ruth. Was there, did there seem to be more concern about sexual behaviour than the use of guns and violence.

00:56:27.000 --> 00:56:38.000
I think people have always said this about American. Films, I've heard it said. American sensors are they're much more, they're much they come down much heavier.

00:56:38.000 --> 00:56:53.000
On sex in films than they do on violence. And some people have suggested that it's because American films are broadly No very sexy and quite violent, whereas European films are broadly not very violent and quite sexy.

00:56:53.000 --> 00:57:01.000
And so it's actually a kind of industrial protectionist thing where they ski to keeping European films out of the American marketplace but actually That doesn't really stand up because where did that start?

00:57:01.000 --> 00:57:17.000
Americans aren't by nature. That way, nor, you know, it's so there is there is concern over The use of weapons and violence in the in the code but it's far more to do with the fact that people might.

00:57:17.000 --> 00:57:23.000
That people might copy it. It's far more to do with the fact that kids or the people that they love that they that they say is that they're called morons.

00:57:23.000 --> 00:57:37.000
And the more on may see this and then go and try and blow up a train themselves. So they're far more concerned that the violence may be maybe, instructional and that you might, you might learn something from it that you shouldn't really be learning.

00:57:37.000 --> 00:57:46.000
Which I suppose isn't quite the same as sex and nudity.

00:57:46.000 --> 00:57:55.000
Hmm. Okay, thank you. And a question where we're just about time folks. I think we'll take this question and then have to start wrapping up.

00:57:55.000 --> 00:57:56.000
This is from Jill. How far do you think all of this that we've just been talking about today?

00:57:56.000 --> 00:58:07.000
Correlates to the present concern over internet and social media content and influence. It's quite a big question.

00:58:07.000 --> 00:58:10.000
Gosh, that's a huge question.

00:58:10.000 --> 00:58:14.000

00:58:14.000 --> 00:58:21.000
I don't know, that's hard to answer because Like I say, the code was always, the code was always moral.

00:58:21.000 --> 00:58:31.000
And so in the years of the code, they were really keen to preserve cinema. As a place where where anybody could go and see anything.

00:58:31.000 --> 00:58:49.000
And the idea that Sinema was was for all ages, something that particularly in Hollywood, or in America more than in the UK, that they really How long to and that primarily for for economic reasons they don't want to even now You don't really want your film to have an NC.

00:58:49.000 --> 00:58:58.000
17 or an R rating because it means that a lot of film goers who would have seen the film won't and you you simply won't make as much money from a film that has a higher rating.

00:58:58.000 --> 00:59:08.000
Some filmmakers now kind of want it as a badge of honor. But this idea that cinema was entertainment for everyone is kind of crucially important to how the how the code worked.

00:59:08.000 --> 00:59:09.000
We've got to make everything palatable for every conceivable audience. And that's obviously a really hard thing to do.

00:59:09.000 --> 00:59:23.000
And I think You know, I send them all progresses. You, you might hang on to that as a utopian idea or film should be viewable by everyone.

00:59:23.000 --> 00:59:34.000
Kind of you might hang on to that as an idea, sort of You know, and until you've got kids and they want to watch sore and then suddenly you might think, no, all definitely all films aren't everyone.

00:59:34.000 --> 00:59:40.000
There's definitely some things that are, that for various reasons are like absolutely. No, not suitable.

00:59:40.000 --> 00:59:47.000
And so we, it makes, I think it does make sense the way we do it now to kind of to stratify.

00:59:47.000 --> 00:59:55.000
S might say, yeah, you're up to this, you have to be this age. To see this it seems like the only pretty fair way of doing it.

00:59:55.000 --> 01:00:01.000
Can you do that with the internet? Can you do that with online material? It's very hard, isn't it?

01:00:01.000 --> 01:00:09.000
It's a the internet is a is a massively changing target. Can you even do it with, can you even do it with film material that you stream through the internet to your house.

01:00:09.000 --> 01:00:27.000
How, you know, if I, I can put on any film I want and I can, and any any of my any of my nests or nephews can come and gladly watch any awful horror film that I that I download from Netflix literally nobody can stop me.

01:00:27.000 --> 01:00:28.000

01:00:28.000 --> 01:00:37.000
It's up to me to not make that happen. And so I guess with the rise of streaming and the rise of our home viewing, it's kind of the same as the internet.

01:00:37.000 --> 01:00:43.000
You sort of need to be aware. If people are, if people that you're in charge of are looking at things that they shouldn't.

01:00:43.000 --> 01:00:48.000
Look at, but if they're smart, they'll find a way to do it.

01:00:48.000 --> 01:00:59.000
And so you have a bit of an arms race I suppose. I don't really think there's any way to say you certainly can't say the whole of the internet should be safe for everyone of all ages to look at because Man, it's really not.

01:00:59.000 --> 01:01:07.000
It's horrible. So by that token, I suppose we need. We, other, we need other checks and we need, we need other things.

01:01:07.000 --> 01:01:13.000
But then the internet was built. On that utopian idea that it's the free flow of information.

01:01:13.000 --> 01:01:22.000
It's just people have filled it with. Violence and pornography, especially pornography. So in some ways we kind of, it kind of speaks to our.

01:01:22.000 --> 01:01:25.000
Our ability to kind of ruin all the nice things we're given. That's probably a slightly different topic.

01:01:25.000 --> 01:01:31.000
So. Yeah, the 2 things aren't comparable in quite the same way, but they do have that link.

01:01:31.000 --> 01:01:36.000
And I think the point where those 2 things meet is definitely this idea of streaming films and watching them at home.

01:01:36.000 --> 01:01:48.000
It's very, and yeah, it's very easy to just use someone else's Netflix or just a lie or just have a family login and not set up parental controls who really knows how to sell the parental controls on their Netflix if they've got kids.

01:01:48.000 --> 01:01:52.000
No one. So it's a That's a changing world, I think. Check in with me in a couple years time.

01:01:52.000 --> 01:01:55.000

01:01:55.000 --> 01:01:58.000
I'm not a position on that. We all might have who knows.

01:01:58.000 --> 01:02:02.000
Okay, well thanks very much for that Christopher. I think we'll need to wrap up there.

01:02:02.000 --> 01:02:11.000
That was absolutely fascinating and really interesting to hear how the code came about and what ultimately led to its demise and kind of how we've ended up.

01:02:11.000 --> 01:02:18.000
Where we are now and the code is certainly something that I knew absolutely nothing about until today I had never even heard of it.

01:02:18.000 --> 01:02:27.000
So, so thanks again.


Lecture 168 - Discover the Bremen Cog: 14th century merchantman ship

The discovery of the Bremen Cog in 1962 brought to light the then only physical remains of this once numerous class of medieval merchantman. Since then, pioneering conservation and display work on the ship at the German Maritime Museum in Bremerhaven has revealed its complex construction technique whilst its likely sailing characteristics have been determined by the construction of three modern replicas. Several other examples of partly preserved cogs have been found in North West Europe since the Bremen Cog was discovered.

Join WEA archaeology tutor Simon Tomson for a fascinating insight into the discovery, conservation and display of this remarkable late medieval merchant ship and its 643-year long (so far) history!

Video transcript

00:00:02.000 --> 00:00:11.000
Right. Thank you Lauren very much indeed. Good evening ladies and gentlemen and friends. I know some of you, I can see a few faces there, the guilty, you know who you are.

00:00:11.000 --> 00:00:18.000
Nice to see you all. So good evening and welcome to this evening's lecture. If I knew it was.

00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:25.000
Okay, so what we're gonna be talking about for an hour, well I'm gonna be witching about at least is the Bremen cog.

00:00:25.000 --> 00:00:29.000
I will be wittering about at least is the Bremen cog. I will explain my nomenclature as we go on through.

00:00:29.000 --> 00:00:36.000
So let me meet at this share screen. And bring up the WA slide just that we know who we are and where we are.

00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:40.000
That's great. Done. Take the blocks. Thing.

00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:48.000
Right. Is a mature, late medieval form of mercantile vessel. It's built like a barrel.

00:00:48.000 --> 00:00:56.000
It's got a flatish. Right bottom, I'm afraid there's no other way of getting around that word.

00:00:56.000 --> 00:01:13.000
Ships have bottoms end off. This is a half scale recreation of a cog and the cob was the workhorse of the medieval shipping industry of the Hanseatic League.

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Now this is a still from the Smith field, Dakar rules, a manuscript to about 1,300, showing piracy on the high seas and the victim, victims are manning a cog.

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So I single mastered. Mercantile vessel, so built like a barrel. They usually stay built, but they sometimes have carvele bottoms.

00:01:37.000 --> 00:01:44.000
I'll explain those terms in a second. They were crude by between 8 and 10 mariners.

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They had cargo capacities of between 50 and about 300 tons depending on the size of the vessel.

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So that's what they are. They are built for the conditions of the North Sea and the Baltic Sea, which is where they primarily operated the trading network of the Hansa.

00:02:04.000 --> 00:02:05.000
So you've got to feel sorry for the poor bloke is being seasick over the side.

00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:12.000
While his mates hitting him with a sword, but hey, that's what piracy is all about.

00:02:12.000 --> 00:02:22.000
That's not very funny really if you were in Somalia these days. We see imagery of cokes on town seals.

00:02:22.000 --> 00:02:36.000
That's splat in the ceiling wax. Not a seal. So on the left we have a 13 century steel of windchill sea and with the seconds new town he built in in Sussex, Kent, I think it is Kent.

00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:44.000
Which the sea has since retreated from. And the example on the right hand side is the wax impression from a town seal.

00:02:44.000 --> 00:03:01.000
From Strasland dated 1329 which is in Denmark as far as I understand it. There are loads of town seals that have cogs on them which includes Bristol amongst others that I know off off the top of my head.

00:03:01.000 --> 00:03:13.000
Oddly and then usually when she'll see has a steering or whereas the definition of the cog is he has a fixed tiller as you could fix rudder operated by a tiller.

00:03:13.000 --> 00:03:19.000
And and a stern castle and sometimes a forecastle as in single single great mast and a whacking great sail hung from it.

00:03:19.000 --> 00:03:34.000
You can see what I mean by being built like a barrel. It really is very rounded on the base and it has a flat underside with no projecting keel.

00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:48.000
I'll explain why in a moment. Now these vessels and there were thousands of them are the work or where the walkhouse were the workhorse I should say of the Hanseatic League.

00:03:48.000 --> 00:03:59.000
Of which all of the red dots are the principal towns of the Hansa. Now the Hansa was a sort of pre-EU.

00:03:59.000 --> 00:04:15.000
Free trade network of medieval trading cities and their territories around them. Running all the way from Novgorod over in in what is today Russia all the way down both sides of the Baltic.

00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:23.000
Through the Skagarat and round the North Sea. So the red dots are all the preincipal Kansas cities.

00:04:23.000 --> 00:04:29.000
You can see Bremen is right there in the heart of this. So it's mostly northwest European.

00:04:29.000 --> 00:04:39.000
The black dots are allies or members of the Hansa which run from Leith. All the way down to Beverly.

00:04:39.000 --> 00:04:43.000
Oh, so Newcastle's under the the England bit, but Beverly, Powell.

00:04:43.000 --> 00:04:53.000
Kings Lynn Boston and rounds to the steelyard in London which was the principal trading station within Britain.

00:04:53.000 --> 00:05:03.000
Now, these are all. If, have pay no relevance whatsoever to the particular Polity.

00:05:03.000 --> 00:05:12.000
Country. Whatever that they belong in. This is a mutual treaty between trading cities. Townships and harbors.

00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:24.000
So this is all about shifting all sorts of things around this whole trading network from Le in Britain, up to Bergen, way up.

00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:28.000
Into the Gulf of Bosnia and the whole of the Baltic and the North Sea.

00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:40.000
But not beyond. However, the links go beyond with overland trade and transport and with trade of course comes prosperity.

00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:48.000
So as you see from Edinburgh all the way down to London, Ipswich, Yarmouth, Boston, King's Lynn, Hull, York and so on are all parts of this integrated trade network, which includes pack horse trains crossing the Alps.

00:05:48.000 --> 00:06:05.000
And so on to get down to Genoa and Venice. So on. So this is a way of international trade distribution.

00:06:05.000 --> 00:06:21.000
So that requires these tubby ships to shift stuff around with. Now, the cargoes we're talking about is a very long exhaustive list, which I do not intend to go through, but principal cargo is probably grain.

00:06:21.000 --> 00:06:27.000
Followed by timber because of course the Baltic is stuffed with timber and not a great deal else.

00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:41.000
And the third product is probably beer. Which will cheer some people up I'm quite sure. Now, Bremen here is one of the centers of the North German brewing industry.

00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:51.000
And something very interesting happened there about between 1250 and 1,300. And that is we change over from A.

00:06:51.000 --> 00:07:03.000
Which is a barley brood condiment which was flavored with bog myrtle and the bog myrtle acted as a preservative of the ale in the barrow in the barrel.

00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:23.000
At some time between 1215 1,300, some bright spark discovered that if you put hops in the brew instead of bog myrtle you've not only created bitter beer as we used to in this country but it lasts 3 months long in the barrel.

00:07:23.000 --> 00:07:26.000
Thus if you're chugging All the way from let's say Bremen right round the top of Denmark.

00:07:26.000 --> 00:07:44.000
5 knots, whatever, dropping into all these ports on route, even by the time you get to your furthest extent of transportation up the Baltic, your beer is still fresh and saleable.

00:07:44.000 --> 00:07:51.000
So that's why we have beer as opposed to ale these days. Just a little tail which illustrates what we're talking about.

00:07:51.000 --> 00:08:02.000
So, what we need to understand now is Raymond. A major medieval town. And port on the river Visa.

00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:12.000
And the Visa discharges north into the Jade Gulf here just at the bottom of the intersection of Denmark and Northern Germany.

00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:21.000
Sits on the river Vasa down here. Below we can see a town plan. This is the medieval These are the Renaissance defenses.

00:08:21.000 --> 00:08:27.000
It's a star for here with a moat running around the core of the medieval town.

00:08:27.000 --> 00:08:35.000
And the medieval time was a center of the shipbuilding industry as well as the of the brewing industry.

00:08:35.000 --> 00:08:52.000
It was a bit of a mess after 1945 as you might imagine. And the Germans between 1962 and 1,965 in order to make the river more usable for launched shipping from the shipyards.

00:08:52.000 --> 00:09:06.000
Decided to carve out a lump of the bank here and dredge the river bed to make it deeper for more more modern vessels and to try and give a renaissance to the ship building industry within Bremen.

00:09:06.000 --> 00:09:14.000
And in the process, they carved away a large lump of the bank there. Out of which popped.

00:09:14.000 --> 00:09:22.000
A whole load of timbers. Now in the background you can see the bow of the dredger.

00:09:22.000 --> 00:09:40.000
It's not just a dredger, it's a huge great mechanical underwater set of rotating Toothed wheels which gouge away at the bank and at the river bed and then suck up all the sand and so on hence deepening the channel and widening it.

00:09:40.000 --> 00:09:48.000
So the once they hit this lot, they sort of, better stop, I think. And just review the situation.

00:09:48.000 --> 00:10:00.000
So the port authorities have started taking soundings from the museum world. But they carried on dredging in different places all the way through through until 1965.

00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:12.000
By which time the museum authorities have woken up. And large lumps of vessel These are all the frames you can see sticking up here with intact planking.

00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:19.000
Were left isolated on the sandbank in the river. Pending full archaeological excavation.

00:10:19.000 --> 00:10:23.000
And as you see, I be Tom Dick and Harry turned up in the rowing back to have a jolly good look.

00:10:23.000 --> 00:10:39.000
Hey hope this will be some prime with you know whales washed up on the coast today. The museum authorities, as I say, swung into action and a decision was eventually made that the an attempt would be made to recover.

00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:48.000
All this timber work because clearly there is an intact vessel here isn't there? It's not just a pile of timbers washed up in a heap.

00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:59.000
Oh no. In the background you can see the big ocean going steamers which of course were being built and launched in Bremen and this is why all this improvement work on the River Vaser was being carried out.

00:10:59.000 --> 00:11:17.000
So we can see the the plankage here, the typical overlapping strikes of planking. Which is the definition of clinker built overlapping planks nailed on the bottom edge and we can see the frames clearly through the side of the vassal here.

00:11:17.000 --> 00:11:23.000
So it does a look a little bit like a stranded whale doesn't it? But it has 3 dimensional structure.

00:11:23.000 --> 00:11:35.000
It has the bottom of the hull. It's got both sides and we can see on the frames themselves where they've been cut and lapped for each of the planks to fit onto them.

00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:46.000
And you can see the lines of nails still preserved running down the side here. So the decision was made to lift in as much as possible in one piece.

00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:59.000
And to then dredge the rest of the river bed and the river bank. To get the rest of the plankage which had clearly fallen off or been disturbed by the dredger of course not being the kindest way of finding something like this.

00:11:59.000 --> 00:12:10.000
So very long story short, it was brought ashore, sometimes in pieces, and several very, very large blocks and after a consultation program.

00:12:10.000 --> 00:12:22.000
Was put into colisine bags and tanks. Of clean water to preserve. Now as you see all this took place back in the days of black and white.

00:12:22.000 --> 00:12:33.000
However, since then Mr. Axford came along and invented color. So now we have a whole set of disassociated timber plankage.

00:12:33.000 --> 00:12:54.000
And the main body of the howl. And there was a plan within the West German government as it was then of course to create a ship museum, a maritime museum, not in Bremen, but in Braemar Haven, which lies at the mouth of the river Basa, is today the major container port.

00:12:54.000 --> 00:13:02.000
And it's where most of the shipping in that part of northern Germany now originates. You can't get up the vaser anymore, it's super, sediments, so on.

00:13:02.000 --> 00:13:11.000
So, ocean going shipping all calls in at Raymer Haven, the haven, the anchorage at the mouth of the River Vaser.

00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:20.000
Now the idea is we're just sort of crystallizing in the in the West German government's mind about this ship museum when the cog came to light.

00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:27.000
Very quickly, it was established, it was indeed a medieval ship and therefore as rare as hen's teeth.

00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:37.000
So, a dedicated program was put together, the designs of the ship museum were Shanged to accommodate this vessel.

00:13:37.000 --> 00:13:50.000
Which was going to be its star. Exhibit. So while the museum was being constructed, the remaining hull with brought into the museum which is still being built.

00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:58.000
And you notice the rebate in the floor. Let me find my kisser. Here we are down below here.

00:13:58.000 --> 00:14:09.000
And the entire structure is suspended with stainless steel cables. From the roof beams which was specifically designed to hold its weight.

00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:27.000
This meant that you could now take conservation could now take place on the hull. So as a result The shipyard workers were brought in from the shipyards and they put together 170 tons of steel plates.

00:14:27.000 --> 00:14:40.000
Around underneath the hull. And around it and eventually surrounded it. And pumped in. 800,000 litres.

00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:48.000
Distilled water. With 5 tons. Of polyethylene glycol dissolved in it.

00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:54.000
And they connected it up to the heating system. So like had an underwater radiator inside it.

00:14:54.000 --> 00:15:03.000
To keep it moving and to keep the polyethene glyco dissolved. This is the very rubbish slide, so I'm just going to go back to that one because it's much more fun to look at.

00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:17.000
So imagine instead we've got a glass front on here. So you've got this. Unholy bubbling mixture of warm polyethylene glycol which is a water soluble wax.

00:15:17.000 --> 00:15:25.000
And that wax gradually impregnates the, molecular. Structure of the timber cells.

00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:39.000
Removing the water and crystallizing out instead wax inside the cellular structure of the timber thus stabilising it and making it solid enough for eventual display.

00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:47.000
Now it took from 1,965 until 2,000 when the ship was eventually opened and shown to the public for this process to take place.

00:15:47.000 --> 00:15:59.000
So it's a long, long process. There were all sorts of negotiations of how to dispose of all the solution afterwards and so on.

00:15:59.000 --> 00:16:07.000
Long story short, however, we go straight past that one. Thank you very much. We end up with the ship's hull.

00:16:07.000 --> 00:16:17.000
Still suspended by those stainless steel cables from the roof. With a false floor stuck underneath it and the set of steel jacks.

00:16:17.000 --> 00:16:31.000
Holding the shape of the hull together. So the whole hull was introduced in a single piece. And then gradually each conserved piece of timber was then added back to it.

00:16:31.000 --> 00:16:44.000
And the the jaws if you like of these steel braces that hold it together were put in under stress in order to create the correct angle of the hull as it would have been.

00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:52.000
How do we know that angle? Well, quite simply, because the whole was reconstructed. Without the frames.

00:16:52.000 --> 00:17:05.000
The frames were, conserved separately and lowered into the hull. So that the planks of the hole were then pressured up and against the internal frames.

00:17:05.000 --> 00:17:14.000
To make the whole structure rigid. Now, no ship of course is ever rigid. It has to give in the waves and so on and the timbership is no no different.

00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:23.000
So what has to happen is The frames were then dropped in, as you can see, they are very large pieces of timber indeed.

00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:32.000
Were dropped in in order that the whole could be pushed under gentle pressure back against them to lock the whole structure together.

00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:49.000
And you can see the bits of modern timber which we put in to support it. While this process goes on, you can also see the curvature of the hull here and it's very it's relatively flat bottom going right down to the line of the keel.

00:17:49.000 --> 00:18:06.000
So that's how the boat was put back together again. It is still undergoing a certain degree of pressure and stress from those frames, those steel jaws around it, in order to lock and bring the whole structure back together again.

00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:07.000
No, I'll explain what happened and how the ship got to be where it was in a moment.

00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:18.000
But this is all about the conservation. To So freshly polyethylene glycol impregnated timber.

00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:34.000
Has the consistency. Of rather stiff blotting paper. Thus it can be resentively easily put under pressure and squeeze back into unite with the internal frames of the ship.

00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:44.000
This is how it was built. The shell of the hole was constructed. First and the frames like this, you know, it's going number number number here, were introduced afterwards.

00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:45.000
So this is by way, no means alien to the history of the ship and the way it was physically put together.

00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:57.000
You have to understand how the ship building works in order to conserve the product. The end of the day.

00:18:57.000 --> 00:19:07.000
Now, because the ship had sticking up bits and I don't mean the mast, This is in fact the stern and this is the deck.

00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:17.000
Up at Stern level. So clearly some damage had taken place. During the preservation of the ship in the river bank.

00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:24.000
And bits have got knocked off. So it was up to the marine archaeologist to work out what bits go where.

00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:30.000
There's still a piece down here, look, looking for a home.

00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:40.000
Right, quick slove of T. We can see within the frames the juggle joints here onto which internal structures and decks were going to be fitted.

00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:42.000
You can see all the square cuts in here. For the decking as we go up the level of the thickness of the ship.

00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:50.000
And this is the deck level on the stern. And that's a huge great piece of framing.

00:19:50.000 --> 00:20:03.000
We kind of look down into it. You can see the modern pieces of timber which are holding the deck plates in place.

00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:10.000
Whole base of the hull. The complete absence really of anything you could describe as a keel. Just the flush boards down below here.

00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:19.000
So these are the overlapping boards on the side of the hole. And then these are the flush.

00:20:19.000 --> 00:20:37.000
Boards on the base of the hull. It's easier to make a waterproof hole from flush planking and each of those planks of course when built had corking materials, CAU, LK, ING, waterproofing materials embedded in them, which was sheep's wool.

00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:46.000
Soaked in lland which is the natural wax that's in sheep's wool to Be squeezed between the planks under pressure.

00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:53.000
And to make a waterproof. Naturally, like all ships, this ship was built on land.

00:20:53.000 --> 00:21:03.000
But of course as soon as you put the ship into water The timbers swell, locking all the planks to together, creating a waterproof hole.

00:21:03.000 --> 00:21:13.000
And look at the size of these frames they are massive pieces of oak as you can very clearly see and these are the deck beams.

00:21:13.000 --> 00:21:23.000
Which is separating the cargo hold below from the third deck down inside the vessel itself. That third deck down is incredibly important.

00:21:23.000 --> 00:21:39.000
Why? Because this huge piece of timber running right the way across here. We'll see my cursor and it's got big holes cut in it at 45 degree angles around its entire circumference.

00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:50.000
This is the winch or the windless. With which the main sale was raised. Was going to be raised.

00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:58.000
We'll come to that in a moment. This is the main capstone, socket on the top of the stern castle here.

00:21:58.000 --> 00:22:03.000
And there was one bit which had kind of got a bit knocked off.

00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:07.000
But you'll all recognize what that is.

00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:17.000
Yes, it's the lavatory seat. So here's the heads But instead of being in the bow, they're over the stern.

00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:26.000
All sorts of rugby songs about that, wouldn't go there. So there was a proper heads built into the stern structure.

00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:34.000
Certainly, of privacy, I guess, for the user. But the crew, you know, they're not, they have to go to the loo as well.

00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:42.000
So looking from the bowels Right along the level of the ship from the

00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:52.000
Terraces, no. I think the viewing floors, there are several being clauses you go up in the in the thickness of the BC proper.

00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:58.000
And you can see it from from DECK level at the bow. So here's the main frame coming down at the bow itself.

00:22:58.000 --> 00:23:05.000
And that disappears and does not become a keel. It becomes something else which is called a keel sun.

00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:16.000
And the KEAL cities where the Planks of the hull are jointed between 2 sick blocks of oak and locked in position.

00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:23.000
So there is not a projecting keel underneath the hull at all. It has a flat bottom, quite literally.

00:23:23.000 --> 00:23:34.000
So we can see the whacking great frames here in the foreground. And we can see the area on the side of the ship here where damage had occurred after its burial.

00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:50.000
And come back to that in a moment. And there is the enormous great windless at the back. Each of those holes of course is to put a big long wooden bar into 3 or 4 in line and the crew to stand on the planks of that deck.

00:23:50.000 --> 00:24:06.000
And probably singing some sort of obscene sea shanty. Will also give way together and pulling around on that windless pulling the ropes through the sheaves and pulling the main cell up on its great pole in the middle of the vessel.

00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:20.000
However, you will have noticed there ain't no main whilst they're at all. Instead what we have are all these steel jacks around the side all exerting carefully monitored little bits of hydraulic pressure.

00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:34.000
Pushing the hole back very gently against the mainframes inside the vessel. It's a very slow and painstaking and sophisticated process.

00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:43.000
So one side of the hole survives. Pretty well, almost up to deck level, and the other side has been eroded away.

00:24:43.000 --> 00:24:53.000
So in burial position this is the side where the river currents were ripping into it. Probably other shipping that collided with it was it sat in the riverbed and on the river bottom.

00:24:53.000 --> 00:25:02.000
But nevertheless, the bear is that great windless. Huge big log. Absolutely massive. So that's what that's for.

00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:15.000
You probably want to go to the low after you'd use that I expect. Looking down from the highest gallery into the vessel itself, the first thing that we see are all those stone stainless steel cables.

00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:23.000
You can now see what I mean about this being the principal exhibit. Inside the ship museum. This is the ship hall.

00:25:23.000 --> 00:25:33.000
Translate it from whoever is in German. Do not go to attempt. And you can see all the galleries around it where there are exhibits about it and so on all the way through.

00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:42.000
It still suspended on those stainless steel cables. And we can now look down. On the vow or whether vow is up here.

00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:53.000
And the repositioned Stern Castle. Boards of the actual deck itself. And then the next deck down.

00:25:53.000 --> 00:25:58.000
And the height they would have been. Now you're thinking, oh they've run out of planks to put in there.

00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:05.000
Wrong. This is to allow seawater to walk, yeah, Baltic water to escape.

00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:11.000
When this thing rolls like a drunken duchess on the sea. It's to let water escape out of it.

00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:28.000
There's another deck below that. So these are structures designed for rough seas. In a rough part of the world carrying Heavy, deadweight, dry cargoes, apart from things in barrels.

00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:36.000
Now this is a woodcut showing ship building in a slightly later period. Now I should first of all say, no, I won't.

00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:46.000
I'll come to that the moment. So here we see on a major river in a northwest European town, a ship's hull under construction.

00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:56.000
So these are all the shipwrights working off the pontoon here on the side with barrels of corking material, carpenters, chippies all working away.

00:26:56.000 --> 00:27:01.000
We can see it's got a very developed stern castle. It's going to have a rudder eventually.

00:27:01.000 --> 00:27:07.000
There's the horse pipe for the anchors and this has got a folks or forecastle as well.

00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:18.000
This is how ships were built. Effectively speaking right way through to the nineteenth century. This is a seventeenth century woodcut, however, from that this part of the world.

00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:28.000
And this is the point to explain. The reason that the Bremen cog does not have a mast is it was still in this condition.

00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:38.000
When it was wrecked. It looks as if there was a major flood episode, maybe a tsunami, something like that, that came up the Visa.

00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:45.000
Or a major flood event from the inland area of Germany came down the visa and she was washed.

00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:52.000
Off the slipway or off her mooring if she'd already been launched. Propelled across the river.

00:27:52.000 --> 00:28:02.000
Wrecked and embedded in a sunbank on the far bank and buried by the amount of sound this great flood event brought down in this sort of deluge.

00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:07.000
So the mast had never ever been positioned. It wasn't there. There was no sign of any cargo and part of the ship is in fact incomplete.

00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:16.000
There's no bowsprit for instance. That's what that's about spread there.

00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:20.000
Planking of the deck doesn't appear to have been completed either. So it was a hull in the process of conversion into a ship.

00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:32.000
And it never made that conversion. Because it was wrapped and sunk and I think turned over in the river.

00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:39.000
Vesa when he hit a sandbank and was then buried effectively by this mass of sand that was washed in on top of it.

00:28:39.000 --> 00:28:48.000
Now, that means A, that the wood of which that hull is constructed had was completely fresh.

00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:59.000
Brand new. And secondly, it meant that the ship had never ever been to sea. Thus, the wood had only ever seen fresh or brackish water.

00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:03.000
So she'd never had shipworm.

00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:13.000
Attacking her. Click her planking as anything out in the sea would have done. And this affects how well she was actually preserved.

00:29:13.000 --> 00:29:21.000
Which brings us to the next question of when did this occur? Now, there's the hull above.

00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:30.000
And these are 3. Trees which have been reconstructed from the color coding planks you can see.

00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:37.000
Now ships planks were taken of course from mature trees, oak trees in this case. And some of them had been very badly twisted in life.

00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:49.000
In other words, they were grown on the edge of a hill with a prevailing wind twisting and then blowing them.

00:29:49.000 --> 00:30:06.000
Some had not grown in nice tall straight lines and have big branches so the planks were cut away from the branches and some planks were relatively short because the trunks of the trees themselves weren't very tall before they fought and became unusable for making ships timbers.

00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:17.000
Now these are all the products of medieval woodland or forestry management. Where you encourage your oak forests to grow.

00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:25.000
You thin out all the little weedy saplings in between and you are now allow enough light into the canopy for your oak trees to grow tall.

00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:45.000
And straight. So effectively these 3 are absolute runts as far as tree growing is concerned. Which suggests that by the time she was built the stocks of DC ship building timber had been pretty much exhausted.

00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:53.000
And the other thing of course is we can take samples out of these timbers, look at the cross-section and count the rings.

00:30:53.000 --> 00:31:02.000
So we can use dendro chronology to date when those timbers were felled. And all the timbers which have been sampled.

00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:10.000
From the hull of the Roman cog. Were felled in either 1379 or 1,380.

00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:20.000
Thus her date of construction has to be 1380 and no later. You can't build with seasoned oak.

00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:35.000
Because it's like iron. You have to build with unseasoned sappy oak. In order to create the chips timbers and bend them to shape in a steambox and so on to create a ship's hull.

00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:44.000
What happens if you have seasoned timbers? You end up with the shambles in York. Not a straight line, not a 90 degree.

00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:52.000
Angle because all of those timbers in the shambles in the medieval butchers quarters of York How then seasoned in situ.

00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:59.000
No, the twists and growth stresses have come out. So there's Bremen on the River Visa.

00:31:59.000 --> 00:32:09.000
And the ship, the sorry the timber growing areas are labeled A, B and C which coincides with A, B and C on the previous diagram.

00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:17.000
So we can see the regions from which they came, which are all up in the headwaters. Mountain is region here.

00:32:17.000 --> 00:32:30.000
I don't know what it's called. And the the vera and the folder which are 2 of the tributaries of the Visa have been used to send those logs.

00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:37.000
Just like we see in British Columbia and so on today. So they've been sent down the river as bunches of raft as logs.

00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:57.000
Those logs have arrived in Bremen at the shipyard where they've been converted by being split into planks, into radial sets of plankton, each log and the chip rights are going, well this is rubbish, they're too sure, you know, not long enough they've got twists in them and that's because all the decent trees had already been used so they are

00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:17.000
scraping the barrel. As far as new timber is concerned. And the pole point with dendal chronologies not only does it allow us to date the timbers to the precise year, but also it allows us to match the tree ring growth profile from year to year to year of specific locations.

00:33:17.000 --> 00:33:23.000
Because of course the rainfall and sun and so on changes from regions through Yeah, through the annual growing cycle.

00:33:23.000 --> 00:33:34.000
So by matching the sequence of tree rings as well as the dating, we can say the areas from which they physically came.

00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:39.000
Which is really, really useful, isn't it? An archaeological science wonderful So that's how these things are understood.

00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:51.000
So, 1,380 is the construction date for the Bremen cog. Now this is part of the computer generated.

00:33:51.000 --> 00:34:06.000
Research program looking at the pressure that's been necessary to put the conserved timbers under in order to force them back into their original positions.

00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:23.000
And these are all moneting stations and stress gauges on those steel support jaws into which the hull sits and is very gently being squeezed and compressed and that's the location of every strain gauge on the entire ship's hull.

00:34:23.000 --> 00:34:35.000
So this is a very, very carefully monitored scientific procedure. Now, due to the wonders of computer aided design, we can measure.

00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:43.000
Pinpoint with lasers all the principal positions of the ship's timbers relative to each other.

00:34:43.000 --> 00:34:57.000
And we can create a 3D digital model and in some cases we can put back things like the vertical winch here on the stern and various pieces of timber with in the stern castle deck.

00:34:57.000 --> 00:35:06.000
As well as these huge great frames. That supported the deck and protected the hull, the hold underneath.

00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:14.000
And when you can see what you haven't got, You can then use that same 3D model in the computer.

00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:21.000
To replace in a different shade, a different tone here, what you haven't got to what you have got.

00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:30.000
Thus we can actually create a picture of what the ship would have looked like. Were she completed. She clearly didn't ever do.

00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:55.000
So we can snick her socking great mast in, we can put the rigging up and so on and we can complete the rest of the stern castle running right the way around here with that windless up on deck the little one and of course down below in here we still got that huge great windless to which these ropes, quite, quite clearly anchored to get the sail up and down.

00:35:55.000 --> 00:35:59.000
So a small crew is shown. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, Chap the cabin boy or something, 7 8.

00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:08.000
So relatively small crow that don't settle terribly fast, but they do hold a lot of cargo.

00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:19.000
So, using that computer design, we can then fully rig it. Put the sale on, put the anchors on and and use various marine.

00:36:19.000 --> 00:36:39.000
Design computer programs to work out the displacement. The white, the way she would have worked in the sea and the speed at which she could have been sailed as well as the number of degrees port and starboard that she could have caught the wind with a single sail.

00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:51.000
And the answer is 7 degrees each side of prevailing wind she could have caught. She's reckoned to do a maximum of between 7 and 8 knots.

00:36:51.000 --> 00:37:01.000
And this particular vessel would have a capacity between 90 and 130 tons deadweight car cargo and she would have displaced.

00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:09.000
55 tonnes in the water. With a crew of about 8. But she never set sail of course on the high seas.

00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:19.000
She became embedded in the river bank instead. Shame, but brilliant for us because she had not been attacked by shipworm, which what anything that's gone to see will have had.

00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:26.000
And she's never had the rigors of going to sea, stressing the wood and corroding it and so on.

00:37:26.000 --> 00:37:35.000
As a result of having her exact measurements and the rudder and the tiller beam and the loo on the back and all the rest of it.

00:37:35.000 --> 00:37:46.000
Various shipyards in northwestern Europe have made facsimiles. Now this is a two-thirds scale, facsimile of the Bremen cog.

00:37:46.000 --> 00:37:57.000
Several, 3 or 4 be built and you can see how the main frames Patrude through the deck.

00:37:57.000 --> 00:38:11.000
Timbers here, you can see the curvature of the, of the, whole timbers coming all the way down and that prominent 4 peak the framing in it and there's the til bar on the back here.

00:38:11.000 --> 00:38:25.000
So she's very obviously in a very modern setting. The Germans were so pleased with what they've managed to do and to sort of show us the wonders of the ship museum, they issued a postage stamp.

00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:30.000
Showing the Bremen cog. There she is. In German, the Bremen Cog.

00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:35.000
Hanciatic glossshift.

00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:41.000
So that's shift is shipped obviously, so it's a cargo ship. And there's the date, 1380.

00:38:41.000 --> 00:38:45.000
So official, you keep non postage stamps. You can't argue with that, can you?

00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:51.000
I mean it's rather wonderful. So from the phylatic world, right the way back to our map.

00:38:51.000 --> 00:39:16.000
And the roots that these vessels took. Now the obviously the prominent roots with our beer laden ships leaving Hamburg and Hamburg and the Bremen and so on here are going round the whole of the Danish Peninsula through the Skagarat all the way along to Shetin and Danzig and Connysburg and Riga.

00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:24.000
And all the way up to Tallinn and all the way to the edge of Novgorod on the outskirts of Petersburg as it is today.

00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:29.000
Bergen in Norway, those ports on the east coast of England I've already mentioned.

00:39:29.000 --> 00:39:39.000
If I go further along those cargoes Great is probably the most important. But we have wrecks which show us the cargo is contained.

00:39:39.000 --> 00:39:52.000
Cast brassware, including church bells, from the Merse Valley in Belgium. Cast iron pots and pans and from the iron producing areas.

00:39:52.000 --> 00:40:09.000
We have Antler from Reindeer coming down from up here. We have Amber, we have Arctic furs, trapped animals in the north, and we have fish products of course coming in from places like Bergen and Trondheim on the Norwegian coast as well.

00:40:09.000 --> 00:40:19.000
So, Salt was also a principal material that was carried for the salting of fish. In this sort of part of the world and to transport salt fish in by the barrel full around all this sort of area.

00:40:19.000 --> 00:40:29.000
Because we're still talking about the late medieval Europe and the whole of late medal we are is still Catholic.

00:40:29.000 --> 00:40:44.000
So there's a huge market for salt fish. Inland as well as on the coast. So if a huge variety we even have records Written records that is and I'm speaking to you from my home in Grimsby here.

00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:51.000
Is that the rental for the king's ships to use Grimsby Harbour were gear falcons.

00:40:51.000 --> 00:40:57.000
In trapped in the world and imported from Scandinavia and they must have come in Hanciatic ships to land them here in Grimsby to be paid to the King as the rental for the docks.

00:40:57.000 --> 00:41:15.000
The Medieval Dock complex. Same in Kingston upon Hull and so on. Now, since 1962, when the Roman cold was recognized, we found a few more.

00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:22.000
This is in Tallinn in Estonia. So here we can see the slightly flattened out.

00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:31.000
Level less intact. Shell of the whole of a cog with people on the side to give you some idea of scale.

00:41:31.000 --> 00:41:35.000
Okay, there's those massive mainframes. Was the built first shell of the howl and the frames then dropped into it.

00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:46.000
Now in this case it's not a wreck at all. Most shipwrecks we think of actually are not.

00:41:46.000 --> 00:41:53.000
She has been beached. Deliberately. She was old. Her deck fittings have all been stripped.

00:41:53.000 --> 00:42:00.000
Salvage, recycled. And the abandoned shell of the hull, which was probably damaged by shipworm and a few collisions and so on, was literally abandoned.

00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:14.000
This little creek and left to rut. However, it's become flooded because it's this pale white sand as you can see and she's come to light.

00:42:14.000 --> 00:42:21.000
They are attempting to conserve her and lift her. I've been telling for their ship museum.

00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:32.000
Places like Shet in which is now Stretching, gonna be called it, which is now. Like Ruen the territory.

00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:41.000
It was a principal Hanciatic port. This painting from a little bit data about 1,500 purports to show the successors to the cog.

00:42:41.000 --> 00:42:49.000
This is Carvell. And by famously it still got its medieval crane. That's still there on the docks today.

00:42:49.000 --> 00:43:00.000
This was the center of the export of Amber from the Baltic. But this painting gives you some idea of all the other things which are being shifted around.

00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:09.000
Now the ship Museum in, in, as now as I open to the world on the millennial year in 2,000.

00:43:09.000 --> 00:43:19.000
It's a glorious excess of steel and glass and all the rest as you can clearly see. This is a whaling ship no longer in use.

00:43:19.000 --> 00:43:31.000
And there's a sea going catch on the side here. There are all sorts of vassals that are both experimental and on the side here.

00:43:31.000 --> 00:43:36.000
There are all sorts of vessels that both experimental and commercial, which have been laid up in the ship museum, which are still afloat, including

00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:50.000
The only type 21 U-boat. It's ever been allowed to float. In 1,945 these were Hitler's what late wonder weapons that will never be deployed and never fired at torpedo and anger.

00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:58.000
But at the surrender in 1,945, Admiral Dennett gave the order to scuttle them and they were they were all scuttled This one was fished out.

00:43:58.000 --> 00:44:10.000
Refloated and used as a training vessel for the new West German now general German Federal Navy until she was retired.

00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:21.000
And this vessel, there were several others which were captured and carried across to the states and so on. Were the basis for the modern nuclear boats.

00:44:21.000 --> 00:44:29.000
Things like the USS Nautilus that went under the poll were based on this Weber design.

00:44:29.000 --> 00:44:32.000
It's when the old Nazi designs, which were so advanced for its day, that it was still used in the 1950 s for the first generation of nuclear submarines by NATO.

00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:53.000
You'll notice she has a completely smooth Hi, dynamic casing. Covers go over the torpedo tubes the hydro planes here deploy back into the side of the hull so she is as smooth as possible.

00:44:53.000 --> 00:45:05.000
She's the first genuine submarine which can move faster under the water than on it. So she's a very important vessel in many respects.

00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:30.000
But The absolute center of the German ship museum is the Bremen Cog and here she is in all of absolute glory to be visited and wondered at while she is still undergoing conservation work and the odd plank is still being fixed back onto it and it'll never be complete because it's also like every jigsaw this bound to be a few busy bits aren't there but there she hangs for us to literally go and

00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:39.000
see and wonder at. She is magnificent and there is no other way of describing her. She's a brilliant piece of marine archaeology.

00:45:39.000 --> 00:46:05.000
So she hangs there suspended so we can We can wander at her bottom, her stern, her bow, her plankking and the fact that she's smooth planked on the bottom of the hole where she would have sat at little muddy harbors up and down the British and the Baltic shore at low tide and then floated off again as the tide came in and those decks would literally

00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:15.000
have been a marketplace. It would have been trading and haggling going on on those decks as she sat there moored to the side.

00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:22.000
And then as the tide comes in she'd rise up again and the same technique and technologies used in the Humber.

00:46:22.000 --> 00:46:31.000
Up until about about 1,900 with Humber Keels and Humber sloops which do exactly the same thing.

00:46:31.000 --> 00:46:38.000
They're designed to be beached on flat bottoms, hence they've got a flat bottom and to become trading stations.

00:46:38.000 --> 00:46:47.000
From the middle ages right the way through to about 1,900. So there she lies in her steel jaws, which one day will be removed.

00:46:47.000 --> 00:47:02.000
All the weight is still taken on those stainless steel cables from which she's suspended and this is not part of the cargo but it gives you a very good idea of the sorts of medieval barrels that she would have had stacked in her hold.

00:47:02.000 --> 00:47:07.000
She would have rolled with absence of a keel of course like And, a slug on white grass is sometimes how they're described.

00:47:07.000 --> 00:47:17.000
She would have rolled quite horribly, sometimes how they're described. She would have rolled quite horribly if you were not a, you would have rolled quite horribly.

00:47:17.000 --> 00:47:26.000
If you were to roll quite horribly, if you were not a master marrow and used to it, you would have been horribly seasick, und It's something you've got used to because the Mariners, principal job was keeping her in a straight line.

00:47:26.000 --> 00:47:38.000
Master's job was doing all the haggling and the trading and horse trading quite literally and this is that enormous great Hawser used to haul the main soul up that mast.

00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:46.000
Without it, she would have been nothing. So it's an integral part of the framed structure set within the hold of the vessel.

00:47:46.000 --> 00:48:00.000
So whatever nationality of mariners would have been on boredom it probably would have been a multinational crew they would have all stood on that deck those planks right there with their great poles stuck into the olds.

00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:06.000
And Hey, and hauling away on this rotating windless to drag that mainsail up.

00:48:06.000 --> 00:48:12.000
Or carefully to lower it in the case of you know the windows were too great or once you're in harbor and so on.

00:48:12.000 --> 00:48:19.000
So that's a principle, an integral part of the structure of the vessel. Without it, she is nothing.

00:48:19.000 --> 00:48:26.000
Think of a modern vessel today. Without a windlass. To haul up the anchor cable.

00:48:26.000 --> 00:48:31.000
Now you try to do that by hand. It ain't gonna happen, is it? So that's the same piece of equipment.

00:48:31.000 --> 00:49:00.000
The same that it kicked. So viewed from the bow, we can see literally with modern steel books holding it together here but these are part of the frame structure to hold it together and eventually when that whole hull has been squeezed very gently back together again she will be self stable she won't require any props around her at all and you'll be able to see the sheer.

00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:08.000
Space of the Hull as it would have met the water when she was being built and was designed to go into that salty environment.

00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:16.000
The briny. And if we go around to the other end. We can see here, we have the stern.

00:49:16.000 --> 00:49:26.000
And there are iron pints which are still being conserved that will be put back into position on here which are the hinges.

00:49:26.000 --> 00:49:35.000
On which the, tiller. Yeah, the rudder, which is still undergoing conservation and being put back together again, will eventually been hung.

00:49:35.000 --> 00:49:41.000
We actually saw the in the exhibit. So the iron work is there and all we put back on again.

00:49:41.000 --> 00:49:49.000
So the the road will be replaced when she's finished being put together. Wonderfully on the wall of the ship.

00:49:49.000 --> 00:50:12.000
Position, the the, the, occupies is this painting. Put together with all the known scholarship and so on that we know about various cogs and there are several others both in wrecked states One was fished out in, Kempen in Holland recently.

00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:19.000
Which sank in 1421. When the Rhine flooded and changed its course. And this poor thing was just driven to the bottom where she stayed and she was recently found and recovered.

00:50:19.000 --> 00:50:35.000
With the whole hull in one piece. A huge great hydraulic train was set up and struck past underneath her and she was lifted out.

00:50:35.000 --> 00:50:43.000
And even the galley stove is in position on the Kempen example. Again, it's going to take 20 years to conserve it.

00:50:43.000 --> 00:50:59.000
Before we can, you know, go and see it. But this is what the vessel would have looked like at sea, quite low in the water as you can see, deeply laden because of all that cargo with those horses on the side here for the water to escape off the deck.

00:50:59.000 --> 00:51:06.000
As she rolled in the in the in the sea. So she's a tubby. Well built.

00:51:06.000 --> 00:51:23.000
Solid vessel for solid trading across the North Sea and the whole of the Baltic. We go back to our wonderful illustration from the Smithfield Daporals of 1,300 we can now see the whole thing which is fighting cogs.

00:51:23.000 --> 00:51:35.000
One called attacking another and of course piracy did happen. And in some cases these were used as troop transports for shifting people around.

00:51:35.000 --> 00:51:49.000
Henry Prince of Wales, later Henry the Both took a small crusade from the port of Boston. Across to Estonia in about 1345 or something like that in a fleet of cogs.

00:51:49.000 --> 00:52:01.000
So they were full of soldiers going on a little crusade. So that's gives you a kind of good idea what these things would have looked like.

00:52:01.000 --> 00:52:08.000
So from sitting in that poor poor. Sandbank in the side of the river to being conserved.

00:52:08.000 --> 00:52:16.000
Re-erected and now able to be seen open in the millennial 2,000 year we get the Bremen cog.

00:52:16.000 --> 00:52:19.000
Isn't she utterly utterly gorgeous? Now ships aren't your thing. Okay, I'm less understand.

00:52:19.000 --> 00:52:28.000
But this is Marine Archaeology, Maritime Archaeology, Done Read in Tooth and Claw.

00:52:28.000 --> 00:52:32.000
And in order to understand how people and cargoes and ideas moved around the ancient world, we need to know about ancient shipping.

00:52:32.000 --> 00:52:57.000
And that's exactly what the Bremen cog did. So we are really really pleased that the museum authorities back in 1,964 made the decision that she would be conserved, an international panel of museum specialists were assembled and the best method of doing so was agreed.

00:52:57.000 --> 00:53:04.000
We end up with her in that. Great big tank, a polyethylene glyco, and that's what did the trick.

00:53:04.000 --> 00:53:13.000
That's why she's there with us today. Otherwise she'd be a part of rotting timbers on the side of the river vasa and nobody will be any the wiser.

00:53:13.000 --> 00:53:22.000
So that is the story of the discovery, the conservation and the display of the Bremen cog still to be seen today in Braema Haven.

00:53:22.000 --> 00:53:25.000
Don't get on the wrong train.

00:53:25.000 --> 00:53:26.000
Okay, there you are.

00:53:26.000 --> 00:53:34.000
Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Simon. That was so interesting. And I've been but noting down a few questions that we can try and get through, and before we finish up today.

00:53:34.000 --> 00:53:36.000
Of course. Yep.

00:53:36.000 --> 00:53:44.000
And so the first one is from Wendy who asked why was it preserved in water and not seawater.

00:53:44.000 --> 00:54:00.000
Cause she never saw seawater. There was no salt contamination on her at all. The river water by the time you get upstream to to Bremen is brackish it does not contain salt so she's never been conserved and therefore see water wasn't an issue.

00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:07.000
And that's why the oak was preserved so, so well. She never had had seawater attacking her a plankage.

00:54:07.000 --> 00:54:09.000
So that's an easy one. Thank you.

00:54:09.000 --> 00:54:17.000
Thank you. And then I've been kind of combined to now. And Which were, about the same thing.

00:54:17.000 --> 00:54:22.000
So did the conservation of this ship and the Mary Rose learn from each other. And, and then Marilyn added.

00:54:22.000 --> 00:54:25.000

00:54:25.000 --> 00:54:29.000
It seems different. She thought it seemed different from the Mary Rose. And if so, why?

00:54:29.000 --> 00:54:42.000
Yep, sure. Yeah, right. The Mary Rose is conservation was absolutely, taken from the pioneering techniques that we used on the Bremen cock.

00:54:42.000 --> 00:54:50.000
Now the Mary Rose is considerably bigger. Therefore, you couldn't couldn't build a tank big enough to to make waterproof to set around the hull.

00:54:50.000 --> 00:54:56.000
So in the case of the Mary Rose she was just sprayed with a polyethylene glyco solution.

00:54:56.000 --> 00:55:05.000
For 15 years. And that did the same trick. But she was too big to a nurse in one sit one single tank as it is the simple answer to that.

00:55:05.000 --> 00:55:15.000
So yes, one does inform the other. So best practice was followed from 1,965 with the Bremen Cog and that technique was then refined further when it came to the Mary Rose.

00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:20.000
So they are absolutely related, yes.

00:55:20.000 --> 00:55:24.000
Oh, thank you. And I spotted there's actually another question there about the mirrors as well.

00:55:24.000 --> 00:55:30.000
So that's kind of ticked off. And so James asked, can you recommend any books or?

00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:33.000
Booklet on the subject to learn a bit more.

00:55:33.000 --> 00:55:44.000
I only saw a couple of books but they were all in German in the museum itself. However, what I will say is quite simply if you google the Bremen you will find a big entry on it and you'll find several other references at the bottom.

00:55:44.000 --> 00:55:57.000
So reports on the conservation and some of the committee work that went into it. And the design of the museum around it.

00:55:57.000 --> 00:56:03.000
So there's quite a lot of online literature to be had.

00:56:03.000 --> 00:56:14.000
Thank you very much. A few more. So where any car was constructed in Britain asks Elizabeth and all are there any remains found?

00:56:14.000 --> 00:56:15.000
In this country.

00:56:15.000 --> 00:56:20.000
Yeah. There probably were. And no, there are no remains.

00:56:20.000 --> 00:56:25.000

00:56:25.000 --> 00:56:35.000
LIDAR surveying of the east coast of England in Lincolnshire where I live in particular shows we have a whole number of dead medieval ports.

00:56:35.000 --> 00:56:49.000
Like Dunich for instance in Suffolk. Which are no longer there and we have huge Sediment filled former estuaries I would lay money.

00:56:49.000 --> 00:56:58.000
That there is a rect cog hull somewhere in one of the East Coast clogged up estuaries under meters of sediment, I would think.

00:56:58.000 --> 00:57:11.000
Another as a linker I can name about 4 or 5. Medieval port down the coast just south of May here in Grimsby Like Salt League for instance, which were once thriving medieval ports.

00:57:11.000 --> 00:57:21.000
We know that from the documents of ships manifest going there and so on. Today, the It's a piece of environment agency anti flooding North Sea Bank.

00:57:21.000 --> 00:57:25.000
It's gone completely. There's no sign of the rivers that float out of them either or the estuaries.

00:57:25.000 --> 00:57:42.000
They're all filled in with sediment. So yes, I'm pretty sure in my archaeological opinion there will be the odd hull somewhere sitting on the East Coast but I can't tell you exactly where but I can pinpoint about 5 or 6 locations which are possible.

00:57:42.000 --> 00:57:48.000
We don't know if any were built here because we don't have medieval ship building records.

00:57:48.000 --> 00:57:58.000
From places like Kings Lynn or Boston. If they did survive however I would imagine I would only imagine that yes, we probably were building them.

00:57:58.000 --> 00:58:08.000
We have a long proud chip building industry in this country using domestic timber obviously. So yes, I'm pretty sure we were.

00:58:08.000 --> 00:58:12.000
Thank you, much. Anne asks, what were her measurements?

00:58:12.000 --> 00:58:25.000
Oh, I have a measurements in gross tonnage rather than actual length. However, I've got a note somewhere for dimensions. It's not on this.

00:58:25.000 --> 00:58:32.000
I here we are. Right, she's 24 meters long. She's 8 meters high to the beam.

00:58:32.000 --> 00:58:45.000
And there's 4 metres of freeboard above the water line. When fully lighten. So she would have behaved a little bit like a barrel at sea with a mastucker at the top of it.

00:58:45.000 --> 00:58:47.000
But she's built like a barrel. That's just the point. She's robust. So she could be laid down onto the dry seabed when the tide goes out.

00:58:47.000 --> 00:58:57.000
On a flat muddy or sandy bottom. So she's got a pretty much flat bottom herself and therefore she can sit firmly down on the seabed in the ports.

00:58:57.000 --> 00:59:10.000
There are no medieval lock gates so all the ports would have been titled. End of.

00:59:10.000 --> 00:59:28.000
That's why she's built like she is. Now I participated in for myself my sins in my archaeological life on the excavation of a couple of Humber Keels on the river air and they are the direct successors of the way in which the Bremen cog was constructed and I can tell you They are put together very well indeed.

00:59:28.000 --> 00:59:35.000
That's all I'm going to say.

00:59:35.000 --> 00:59:43.000
Great stuff. I've just got a couple more and then we'll wrap up. So do you happen to know the, the U-boat design number?

00:59:43.000 --> 00:59:44.000
Jackie asks.

00:59:44.000 --> 00:59:49.000
It's a Type 21 and it's the only one that SILL survives afloat.

00:59:49.000 --> 01:00:04.000
I think this one on a memorial somewhere. All the others I'm aware of are all type 9 a BCD fs But this was the the last Brilliant design by Dr.

01:00:04.000 --> 01:00:13.000
Weber. So, Dr. Verner, begg his pardon, who These were put together in factories in different parts of Germany, all connected by rivers.

01:00:13.000 --> 01:00:17.000
They were brought to the shipyards in pieces and they were welded together. So they were going to be the war winning weapon.

01:00:17.000 --> 01:00:27.000
But unfortunately, most of the photographs of them show them knocked over on their sides in various dry docks after the RAF and had a go at them.

01:00:27.000 --> 01:00:40.000
Very few ever put to see, no, none of them ever fired a torpedo and anger and the few which were afloat were surrendered and or sunk at the surrender.

01:00:40.000 --> 01:00:49.000
The Americans picked a couple of them up, took him back to America, took him apart and then designed their new generation of nuclear boats based on the design criteria for them.

01:00:49.000 --> 01:01:03.000
So they were more winning weapons had the war continued for several more years. Mercifully it didn't and we were able to use the design for postwar naval use but not for German naval use.

01:01:03.000 --> 01:01:12.000
But it's the only one. According to the Google page, it's the only one that still survives intact in one piece.

01:01:12.000 --> 01:01:21.000
Thank you. And then one to finish up on from the read. How would they have known when, it's stable enough to remove the support?

01:01:21.000 --> 01:01:28.000
Oh, when the wood stays where it was put, this is short answer. You have to understand that those planks were bent.

01:01:28.000 --> 01:01:42.000
In the ship building process in steam boxes. Who used all the wood shavings from the ship building process to burn and to create steam in a sealed wooden vessel in which the planks were placed.

01:01:42.000 --> 01:01:52.000
They were then taken out when they became pliable. And that's when they were then nailed into position to take on the curvature of the hull.

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Now that could of course, the timbers trying to get back out of it again but it's been steamed into that position.

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It's a bit like ironing, I believe. I don't do it myself, but, you know, putting a pleat into something that stays there.

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Under under heat. So the woods trying to get back to its original position but it's being locked in it in its new position because of the pressure.

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Then as the polyethylene glyco crystallizes out into the cells of the wood, it locks it into that new position.

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IE. The original position that the steam box bent it into. And the nails of course then hold it together.

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Now the nails have all gone quite obviously. So once the whole hole becomes stable and doesn't ping apart, effectively speaking, at the millimeter level, that's when it will be finished.

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It may never be finished. I don't know. That's one of the unknowns. So it's a big conservation experiment, if you like.

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Which the Mary Rose continues in the same tradition of. For the course the Mary Rose had put to see.

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And had got shipworm in a hole which had weakened the hull. And pretty much every wooden ship rack that has been in saltwater has been attacked by Taredo or shipworms.

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Little sods. And that's why we end up with in the seventeenth century we have copper bottom ships.

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As in a copper bottom promise because the shipworm couldn't penetrate the copper sheathing on the hulls.

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Particularly in tropical waters where they're more vigorous than they are in temperate waters around our island shores.

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Thank you. I think we will. We'll wrap that up there on the questions. Thank you everybody for those.

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So I'd just like to say a massive thank you, Simon, for your really fascinating talk today.

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And just been it's just been so interesting so thank you very much thank you all for your really interesting questions as well and then and thank you for having me today as well as the host.


Lecture 167 - The evolution of religion: from ape to humanity

In this introductory talk with WEA tutor Jacob Cohen, we’ll explore the definition of religion and its constituent ‘areas of life’ before considering the various evolutionary explanations of religious practices from Freud through to more modern thinkers such as Matt J Rossano and Chris Knight.

We will also attempt to establish a wider theoretical context in which to understand the dynamic of human activity, evolution and consciousness in general in its relation to 'religion'.

Due to a small technical hitch, the slides did not show correctly - you can down load a copy of the slides here

Video transcript

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Okay, thank you. So, just to introduce, well, my course, So I teach a course 2 courses on the history of religion.

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This first one is the introductory. Session to my first course which covers the period from the evolution of humanity up to the period of Moses.

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And so On the front cover here we have a few images I just wanted to talk about 2 of them.

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Sorry, Jacob, could I just interrupt for a second? Do you want to go into slide show please?

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I thought I did. Is it not? Has it come up now?

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No. Nope.

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Let's check it.

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So, open it up into slice. I should come up.

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Do you want to stop shearing and then try sharing again?

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Okay, okay.

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Let me to stop sharing for you and then.

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. Just Oh, share it. Yeah, if you can do that, sorry.

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Okay, apparently some people can see it. Anyway, I'll do it again. Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, just try again. It wasn't showing on my screen.

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Okay, alright, here we go. So, to start again. Is that okay now?

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Not for me, but if it's okay for everybody else, then that's fine.

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Okay. I'll start and if, too many people can't see it, we can try again.

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So to the images that I want to look at that I've put up here One is the dancing sorcerer on the bottom right hand corner.

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The the kind of anthropomorph of a dear human hybrid. This is something that goes kind of to the core of what this course is all about in some ways in the sense that Trying to understand religion.

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As it relates to the development of humanity and its relationship to nature and to the animal. In side of us and to the animal realms and so on in particular one of the sessions is on shamanism which is focused on this idea.

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Of the transition between human and animal and how that relates. To the kind of the conscious and the unconscious and and this is something that we try to look at.

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Throughout as we go. The next image here in case I'm sure there's a lot of people that won't be aware of it.

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This image that looks like slightly like stone hinge is actually a place called Gabekly Tepee which is a ancient site.

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Probably the oldest temple in the world, although there are some sites nearby it which are also being discovered now which may end up rivaling it but dates back.

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Hey, I'm so sorry. Can I interrupt again? And we're not, there are people that are not seeing your screen properly.

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Okay. I can go out and try and go in again. If you want to, if you can take, take it off.

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Sounds great. I'll go in again and. I don't know what else to do after that.

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Yeah, it's showing your normal PowerPoint view rather than the slide show.

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Okay, Wi-Fi. Is it change for you now? No, it's not.

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No, I think you will have to unshave and share it again.

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Sorry about this folks.

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Do you mind unsharing it? I can't.

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Since I'll stop share there, sorry.

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Okay. Go back in. Okay.

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Okay, so we'll try that one more time. How is that?

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I, Yeah, yeah.

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Have you hit the slide show button on PowerPoint? Oh, this is very strange.

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I think we just need to keep going folks and just bear with it. Okay, thank you.

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Should I just Keep going or. Yeah. Apologies for technical issues. So yeah, go back to, I won't say too much about it, but there is one of the sessions that goes quite in more detail about it.

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But it is one of the earliest temples built by hunter-gatherers about 12,000 years ago and it seems to be a very important site.

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For the beginning of agriculture. So it seems As if the the domestication of wheat for making both bread and beer seem to be intimately linked to the building of this site and and so the A lot of the ceremonies involved in the beer but also to feed the people to make it.

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That they kind of developed agricultural techniques at this time in order to be able to keep people in large enough numbers to build something on the on this scale.

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And we'll we'll come back to that possibly as we go now The question of what religion is, is obviously a good place to start.

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And as we see on the definition here, action or conduct indicating belief in obedience to and reverence for a God gods or similar superhuman powers.

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Now this is one interpretation. Obviously it falls short in some ways, you know, Buddhism for example doesn't require belief in God or God's and there are other religions which don't necessarily require belief in God or gods.

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Humanism being one but more importantly I would say Huntter-gatherer religions Whether or not God's can be said to exist in hunter-gatherer religions is also a big question.

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And I would argue that there is a fundamental difference between the ancestors. And spirit beings which are presented in in most hunter-gatherer societies.

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And later ideas about God's which develop in more city, state, civilizations. And generally the relationship becomes much more of a relationship of hierarchy and separation whereas Hunter Gavra religions are fundamentally based on a kind of kinship.

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So everything is related. And also everything is about relationships. So everything is built on relations rather than ideas of fundamental objects.

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Everything can change. Into something else. And there's a clear understanding on some level that the animals and all the spiritual beings are our ancestors.

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In some way so that we in in aboriginal religions for example they there is the idea that in the dream time We become our ancestors.

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So we are also our ancestors and we realize this through the rituals and through particularly dances and shamanic practices.

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Which we'll get to in more detail as we go. The other. Idea, a definition of religion that we've got here.

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Yeah. Not yet. Oh, sorry. Yes, yes, we should be.

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Hey, should we be on the next slide? Right, okay, thank you. No.

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Yes. I can sometimes go in yeah coming out and then going in works but can everyone see it now when it's in not a slideshow form.

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Okay, so if I go into slideshow, is it now? Visible as the second slide.

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It's visible, Jacob, let's just keep moving. It's just we haven't moved on, that's all.

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Okay. Okay. Okay, okay. So a set of symbolic forms and acts that relate men to the ultimate conditions of his existence.

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Now this one I think has a bit more merit in the sense that it shows a global understanding of what religion could be said to be.

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This is an idea that all human cultures, all human societies. Present their view of the world and their understanding of their cosmology if you like.

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In symbolic form and that this symbolic form is fundamental to the every aspect of that society to some degree that there is an underpinning mythology.

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And logic and a underpinning view of the world and the understanding of the world that is both created by the society with its particular structures, particular modes of life and and so on.

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But also in some sense create those modes of life and this is something that we'll we'll look at as we go but Again, I think both definitions have weaknesses, and even the term religion.

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Can be a difficult one because when we think of religion we tend to think of hierarchical organized religions with priesthoods.

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And kind of holy books or things like that which doesn't apply to Hunter-gava society.

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So that that is something to also bear in mind. So I would say that instead of trying to necessarily define it you know definitively I think it's better to look at the constituent parts that make up what we can think of as at least the basis of religion or something that gives shape and structure to what becomes religion.

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Area later in life and this I think is useful to think of as 4 key areas of life. So first of all, We're going to be looking at ritual and ritual obviously can be diverse in its forms.

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But it has to do with enacting social beliefs and reinforcing social beliefs. Through repeated actions of some sort.

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And we're gonna we're gonna go into more detail about what that means, but it also has a key aspect of symbolic.

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Understanding and symbolic culture which is something that is very important. The next area again, I think morality.

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There is no human society without some form of morality. And it is a fundamental building block of of all cultures and all societies but all societies also have fundamental differences in the morality and that this is built by and builds their society and this is something as we go we're going to look at as a key moment or a key shift.

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From the the animal to the human and it's something that we'll look at in possibly the most detail of these 4.

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Areas in this session. Myth again. Extremely important. As a way in which The unconscious or the If you like the underpinning meanings and under underlying ideas about society life and humanity's place in the world and so on.

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Is is presented and in which a the generations are educated and the beliefs, morality and so on are in instilled and installed in to the the members of society.

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So this is again a very central focus that we'll look at. And lastly, altered states of consciousness, which again runs throughout all human religions or human societies.

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Have all practiced to some degree and in one way or another I attempts to alter this their consciousness to to find different types of consciousness and experience reality in different ways.

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And this is something again that goes to the heart. Of culture and religion. And just to add to this as we go through all these areas of life Clearly they're not completely, separate.

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They, they do interact and they do kind of blend at times, myth and ritual, morality in particular, but altered states of consciousness, you know, often underpins lots of these ideas as well.

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So it's important to understand they're not necessarily separate, but I think it can be useful to break it into these 4.

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Areas. Also As we're going to see, I think it's very important to understand that all of these areas of life and all these aspects are not just unique to humans.

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They do exist among animals to one degree or other and that's what we'll look at. But they are also fundamental to what differentiates humans from animals.

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So there is a qualitative change when it comes to the evolution of humanity and that this is something that we will be looking at.

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Just to add on to that one last point that

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The view of evolution, I will be trying to present. Is one in which There are feedback mechanisms between the kind and dynamic relationships between human action and action in general.

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And the kind of if you like natural evolutionary process so they there is they act on each other in a in a kind of dynamic way and that's something that we're going to we're going to look at.

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Okay, so. The first area we're going to look at is ritual. And now this is really important.

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Again, as I said, ritual clearly exists in other species. You know, bird mating rituals are, you know, very famous example, very detailed, amazing, Amazingly complex rituals at times that that take place and The question that comes to mind though is what differentiates human rituals?

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First of all, when looking at bird rituals. Now, obviously mating rituals with humans gets very complicated but If we look at the all human societies throughout history have had some form of marriage.

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And this is Fundamental in that. Is involving the entire community that the entire community is somehow involved in either upholding the the relationship.

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And accepting the relationship. And that is a fundamental aspect of a difference between human ritual and animal ritual.

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That the the degree of collectiveness, the degree that there is a collect the entire collective community is somehow involved in the in the ritual and this is fundamental to to what differentiates humans particularly from our ape ancestors which is something we'll look at in more detail.

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As we go.

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The other interesting area of ritual, being area of death, which, you know, for humans is fundamental, our knowledge of death is again something that to a large degree separates us.

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From the the other animals if you like to to some degree that our we have a certainty or a a greater consciousness.

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Of death. Then, other animals now. There are clearly indications that animals do have some concept of death.

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Now this has been shown time and time again with many different species. Elephants famously returning to the site where their loved ones may have died.

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Even putting branches and leaves and so on over over their loved ones when they have died. Monkeys there's a famous example in my session I would show a video of where they mourn a robotic monkey that was placed in to their community that they believed to have died.

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And you see them gathering around you see them clearly consoling each other But what differentiates humans, human funerals from these acts.

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First of all is the organized nature of them and this reflects a higher degree of consciousness in the sense that humans have an awareness of death.

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From the beginning and have practices and processes that are known to be in place. When someone dies. So they're not just reacting kind of instinctively there is there is a cultural element that goes beyond anything that we find in nature.

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And this is this is really important. But one of the other things that differentiates human ritual from animal ritual.

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It is just the amount of energy that humans put into these rituals. Seemingly for no other reason than the ritual themselves and we have a quote here from a member of the Hueto tribe in South America, saying, Yeah, our traditions are always alive among us.

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And this is something again we'll return to in a second that the idea that humans always have their traditions, their culture, they kind of follow them wherever they go.

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They can't you can't escape having some basis in a culture. But the next part is the part I want to focus now that We work only that we may dance.

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So this is the idea that

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We, the human beings, particularly in Hunter Gavra societies. The the rituals and the dance in particular.

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Takes up an awful amount of of people's energy and an awful amount of their their social time is is dedicated to to rituals And this not only consolidates the community and plays other roles that we can we can say you know it plays a function but it seems to be something that people do for their own sake.

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And this is something again, what I'm going to develop. As we go. Just to add to that.

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The importance of mimasis and mirror neurons in in humans. Just quickly on that that The collective nature of dance, song, everything that humans do.

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Is based on this higher degree of well the Greater amount of mirror neurons in in our brains compared to all other animals monkeys have a greater amount than most but but nowhere near as much as we do and this idea of learning from doing learning from copying those around us and trying to embody.

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The ideas that we see. This is a fundamental idea. So this brings us on to this idea of play.

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Now there's been a lot of Attempts to give a evolutionary kind of solution to the public what's called the puzzle of play that they you know why do animals and humans in particular spend so much time at play now.

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I've given 4 of the main, arguments here. So there's the idea that it's to develop motor skills, so it's to develop coordination.

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For kind of serious aspects of survival and so on later on in life. Okay, this again is similar to the adult skills hypothesis.

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I'll just come out and go back in and case people didn't can't see it.

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That the adult skills that will later be used are being trained into the young of the various species. This is definitely, you know, an aspect of it and it's something that is important to try to understand.

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Bonding again fundamental to human rituals is bonding the community bringing people together and and trying to kind of bring everyone to having a common belief and a common idea.

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Of what they're doing and why they're doing it. To relieve stress I think this one is Personally, one of the weakest.

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Arguments in the sense that. I think it made it kind of essentializes a an idea of stress that is more particular to our society than anything else but it does There's an element of truth to it.

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In so in the sense of excess energy and and so on that may exist but that is in itself I think, limiting in some way to say that to argue that there can be such a thing as an excess of energy kind of goes along with an idea that there's a kind of finite amount that you need for the basic survival and that that anything past that is somehow.

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In excess which again, doesn't seem to be how life works. There isn't a kind of survival is an all that life is for.

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I would put it that way. So How does this relate to religion? First of all, as I've said, ritual is fundamentally religious in the sense that it reins dates and, kind of extenuates the, the beliefs of the society society.

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So it makes the society's beliefs concrete. And unifies the belief in those. This is something that is fundamental just just to add aspect or an example of that with music.

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You know, birds sing. You know, animals. Even fish apparently they found out to sing.

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But they don't sing the same notes, for example. They don't sing the same words.

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They don't all sing together at the same time. The same exact rhythm and notes and so on.

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So this again shows a degree of collectiveness that is fundamentally on a another level with human beings than any other species.

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And it's a conscious, collectivity, which is the, the key. So this quote here from Marx is, So give a kind of broader understanding of what we're talking about here because Mark saw what he called free creative activity.

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Well, he defined as labor and it's kind of pure sense as he as he saw it. As the fundamental human activity.

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And that this I think is important for understanding humanity. That We, as he, he argues here, humanity produces in a, in a human way when it is free, fundamentally free of the need to produce.

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Now you could say, you know, again, the dichotomy between the 2 producing for need and when you don't need to.

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You know, you could argue against that. But overall, I think the point still stands that there is something fundamentally human about creating.

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New objects, new worlds, new meanings and new ideas that this is fundamental to the human being and this is something we're gonna go into more detail now.

00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:36.000

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For morality. To take on its fundamentally human form. There has to be a cultural element. There has to be a degree to which humanity has is setting itself.

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Goals and trying to create its own reality in some to some degree. So this is I think a fundamental aspect of understanding religion because religion is based on this idea that there is truth to the world that humans supposed to both fit in too but also in some way some active way to create And this is fundamental to the the point about morality.

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That if we look at the book that I have on the slide here. A book called Supernatural Selection.

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By a kind of evolutionary psychologist, Matt J. Rosano. He argues that religion develops.

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Fundamentally because in part of this hyper moral state that human beings live in. Now what he means by this based on some experiment experiments.

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That human beings will act in a moral way. Often. When even when they're not being watched.

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And even when there's no necessary consequence to what they're doing. And so this is the idea that we carry around in us.

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I said the community if you like the community is never completely we're never completely separated from the community especially once we have language and so on there we carry around with us the the whole of the community.

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And in particular Rosano argues that the ancestors played this role fundamentally that they were the ancestors are the moral rules that are always with us and we are kind of we live in the site of the ancestors in that sense.

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And this is a fundamental aspect of it. And it also links to the expansion of, of community that human beings Although, you know, hunter-gatherers have to hunt to live in their religion.

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They are fundamentally see it as a reciprocal relationship. They see it as IA kinship relationship that is agreed to that Although they punt and kill.

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They are both thankful. And there is a very widespread belief that not only are they thankful to the animal, but they see the animal as giving themselves to them.

00:28:43.000 --> 00:29:01.000
And often the ancestors were the totem animal that gave themselves to either the particular tribe. And or 2 different drives will come to the the idea of the totem in a second.

00:29:01.000 --> 00:29:12.000
So this is fundamental. As I say, morality clearly does exist among animals. There's been experiments with monkeys.

00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:20.000
Again, there's a quite a funny video of a monkey, being given grapes.

00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:31.000
So 2 monkeys one that is given grapes one is giving cucumber for the same task And when the monkey who sees the other monkey getting given grapes.

00:29:31.000 --> 00:29:43.000
And he keeps being given just a cucumber, eventually he gets very angry with this situation and froze the cucumber back at the human and refused to take part in the experiment anymore.

00:29:43.000 --> 00:30:02.000
A fundamental sense of fairness but morality goes wider than that and you know mothers and and fathers and so on looking after their young is an example of morality I would argue you know caring for others and so on this is the basis of of morality.

00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:13.000
But with human morality, we have something again that takes on a new form. And I want to just talk a bit about 2 key theories.

00:30:13.000 --> 00:30:35.000
That have to do with this. So Christopher Bum again is an anthropologist. And he, argues that fundamentally The difference between human societies and ape societies that human societies are based on what he calls reverse dominance.

00:30:35.000 --> 00:30:48.000
So all Ape societies are based on an alpha male system with a hoard and very very little coordination collaboration between the males in that society.

00:30:48.000 --> 00:31:00.000
There's a kind of very high level of male competition and there is a higher degree of domination of of the females.

00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:12.000
Now, in human societies, in Hunter Gavra societies, this is reversed because they're Oh no alpha males in in the in Hunter Gavre societies.

00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:26.000
In fact, this is fundamentally kept in check by the community. So for example, one of the, one of the very common practices is something called the mocking of the meat.

00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:37.000
Where if a hunter will hunt and be be particularly successful. When he comes back, he will have to under play his, his achievements.

00:31:37.000 --> 00:31:48.000
Otherwise, he will be mocked, particularly by the older women. And, and that is a way in which They keep in check any kind of.

00:31:48.000 --> 00:32:01.000
Ego developing and sense of superiority of any particular male in particular. And so this is a fundamental difference between human society and and ape society.

00:32:01.000 --> 00:32:16.000
And there are different theories for how this change came about. Chris Knight develops the theory of the human revolution, which he sees the female females of the species playing a leading role.

00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:33.000
In what he calls a sex strike. Basically, which means that human hunters can no longer go out, just kill something and eat it themselves or fight over it as chimps do.

00:32:33.000 --> 00:32:40.000
They there's a rule in all hunter-gatherer societies to some degree there is a rule called the own kill rule.

00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:49.000
And it functions differently in different societies, but fundamentally the rule is that you can't just go out, kill something, eat it yourself.

00:32:49.000 --> 00:32:58.000
You have to bring it back to the community and there are established rules for how you share it out and who you can share it out with.

00:32:58.000 --> 00:33:24.000
So, so this brings me to some of the key aspects of morality. Which we're gonna look at Freud briefly because Freud in his kind of style, he came up with an idea that There was some Prime what he called the primal crime, which was the killing of the alpha male.

00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:49.000
And that this laid the foundation for human culture and human society that somehow this crime Freud's view, typically he focused on the guilt from this crime that he felt that The guilt felt by the by the brothers as he calls them in in in killing the primal father.

00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:56.000
The basis for him for religion. So he sees religion very much as a neurotic defense against this guilt.

00:33:56.000 --> 00:34:13.000
Now there's definitely an element. Of truth to this in the sense that This movement from animal to human in which morality plays a key role in which There seems to be.

00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:23.000
I repression if you like of the drive towards the kind of alpha male system or some of the aspects of the alpha male system which are collectively decided.

00:34:23.000 --> 00:34:40.000
Against and controlled that this can be seen as Laying a foundation for the problems of guilt and so on that there are found among human beings more than any other species.

00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:48.000
But We're not going to go into too much detail of that, but I think it's an important idea to understand because it relates to this idea of taboo.

00:34:48.000 --> 00:35:11.000
And Freud argued and I would say in Overall, there's a central truth to this idea that So, Boo lies at the heart of, of human nature or human culture, that the idea of certain things being taboo, certain things being right and wrong and that the community decides these things is fundamental.

00:35:11.000 --> 00:35:23.000
This brings me to the incest to which again Freud was correct and seeing as universal. It is a universal taboo to some degree.

00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:37.000
Although differently understood. Chris Knight links this to their own kill rule and I think that is fundamentally right that there is I fundamental connection between the incest taboo and their own kill rule.

00:35:37.000 --> 00:35:43.000
Fundamentally in terms of how we spread out the goods. Of society. I'll go into more detail on that, but I think we need to move on.

00:35:43.000 --> 00:36:06.000
But fundamentally, it's One important point about hunter-gatherer religion the the totem all clans have a totem animal which kind of represents their clan or their tribe.

00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:23.000
And that one of the key rules often with this is that the tribe Oh, clan, sorry. Under this particular, but this particular totem are not allowed to eat the meat of that animal.

00:36:23.000 --> 00:36:32.000
Unless or apart from on very particular occasions and very particular rules and so on will

00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:41.000
Well, general point. Again, this brings us on to myth. So why do I say myth also exists among animals?

00:36:41.000 --> 00:36:55.000
This is one that, you know, it might be more surprising to people. So. Animals are born all animals to some degree are born with innate ideas if you like.

00:36:55.000 --> 00:37:05.000
Or in night responses to certain stimuli and an innate picture of the world. So one example given by Joseph Campbell.

00:37:05.000 --> 00:37:17.000
Is turtles. That they, when they're born, they have an innate sense of heading towards the sea, the importance of the sea and the horizon of water that that is where they need to go to.

00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:30.000
Now this is again a very simple example of what Jung would call an archetype. So it's in a nice picture, something that teaches and drives.

00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:37.000
Animals in this case, turtles. But also forms their understanding of the world to some degree.

00:37:37.000 --> 00:37:46.000
Again, chicks also had seem to have these innate ideas or innate images. So there is an experiment.

00:37:46.000 --> 00:37:58.000
There is done with, hawks, or hawk shaped objects. In particular, I think the the image you see here if you do see it.

00:37:58.000 --> 00:38:13.000
Is of a wooden object shaped like a hawk. And interestingly, if it is dragged the correct direction, so the direction in which the beak shape is in the front and it goes it follows that direction.

00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:20.000
The chicks will hide and will become frightened. If it goes the other way, they won't do.

00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:32.000
So this again shows that there is a kind of innate inborn understanding. Of of the world and and the stimuli and stimulus that will be encountered.

00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:45.000
So. Think it's important to then see myth as an organization of these type of images. So these are fundamentally what archetypes come down as.

00:38:45.000 --> 00:39:07.000
But the issue with humanity is that their social World is so complex. And so, multifarious that there is need for a very extensive set of archetypes but also a molding and a continual changing, a continual adaptation of these archetypes.

00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:35.000
And this is fundamentally what the history of religion. Allows us to see is the shift of the shifting forms of these archetypes and the way in which these archetypes relate to the and and develop and are developed by the social reality and the historical reality that they both give impetus and drive us for in our history.

00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:49.000
But they are also changed by our history. And this is again a fundamental aspect of. What I'm trying to achieve with this course in terms of understanding humanity, human religion and human society.

00:39:49.000 --> 00:40:01.000
I'm not going to go too much into the theories of language now. The main division being between nativist and social, forms.

00:40:01.000 --> 00:40:07.000
Nativist being the idea that we are born with a kind of set syntax our brain is set for syntax basically and that our brain is made for language.

00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:31.000
In an important way. Dan Everett Knight and another, Engels as well as well as others argue more that it's a product of, as well as others, argue more that it's a product of human activity, that it's something that emerges through a kind of interrelationship, that it's something that emerges through a kind of interrelationship with humanity and the

00:40:31.000 --> 00:40:48.000
world. I would argue if I had to choose I would argue in favor of the social but I think obviously the the nativist view particularly developed by Chomsky has its power for a reason and and it is, you know, is a, it is convincing in as far as it.

00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:57.000
Goes, but I think it has to be understood. Dialectically as part of a long-term process and an interaction between a kind of dynamic of human labor and reality.

00:40:57.000 --> 00:41:11.000
Again, just to make it clear that there is a theory which is gaining more and more ground that language actually develops out of music and singing.

00:41:11.000 --> 00:41:22.000
Again, this relates to the concept of ritual, but also relates to the next one, which is altered states of consciousness.

00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:33.000
So music is fundamentally one that is one of the main ways in which, humans have altered their consciousness throughout time.

00:41:33.000 --> 00:41:46.000
Again, there is a video of dolphins, taking puffer fish into their mouth and passing them among themselves and seeming to have a very good time as they do this.

00:41:46.000 --> 00:42:01.000
So this is again shows that there are roots of these activities among animals but the No animal. Has developed it to the degree that humans have.

00:42:01.000 --> 00:42:21.000
Now humans across the world, all cultures, especially Hunter Gavra cultures across the world have developed means for altering consciousness and shamanism is fundamentally aimed at Not only altering consciousness, but trying to understand what the altering of that consciousness means and what it tells us about reality.

00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:44.000
And this is something fundamental to to all these forms of human attempts or to their consciousness, whether be music or whether it will be ingestion of certain herbs and and other mushrooms and so on.

00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:59.000
So again, this is fundamental to to the religions of of early human societies and it has a fundamental role in developing.

00:42:59.000 --> 00:43:14.000
And illustrating. The the beliefs of those societies. And just to add to music again, like play, social cohesion is, is clearly an important part of music.

00:43:14.000 --> 00:43:44.000
And worship. But it's it can't be the only. I, but fundamentally because The union that it brings is not only a union with the community that Music and altar state of consciousness Again and again around the world everywhere you go are used to form a sense of community with the cosmos, with reality and in particular going beyond the sense of separation that humans have have generally felt and this sense of some degree of

00:43:51.000 --> 00:44:03.000
alienation or loss of the spontaneity of the animal world. And again, won't go into too much detail about the Terrence McKenna stone date theory.

00:44:03.000 --> 00:44:13.000
Obviously it's one of those theories that can be really ridiculed at times. And clearly the way it's sometimes presented is very simplistic.

00:44:13.000 --> 00:44:26.000
But I think it is fundamental that these activities would have played a role. From very early on and whether or not that it played a role in the transition.

00:44:26.000 --> 00:44:41.000
From ape to human. We probably won't ever know for sure, but I, I would imagine that it my argument would be that it must have done to some degree that the music the rituals and so on.

00:44:41.000 --> 00:44:46.000
They must have played a role in this and they would have probably been linked. To this to many forms of altered consciousness.

00:44:46.000 --> 00:45:03.000
Just to finish on this quickly before we go into questions. As I've mentioned throughout, but I just wanted to explain a bit more kind of clearly.

00:45:03.000 --> 00:45:13.000
One of the key aims of my course. To develop what I would call dialectical approach to both evolution and history.

00:45:13.000 --> 00:45:26.000
And the history of religion within that. To understand. The history of religion, I think it's fundamental to understand the history of consciousness in general.

00:45:26.000 --> 00:45:39.000
And as that relates to The emergence of humans on the planet, that humans fundamentally are an expression of a development of consciousness of and in the universe.

00:45:39.000 --> 00:46:02.000
And that this is a fundamental, fundamental to understanding what Religion is trying to achieve but also why it's important to understand the history of religion because It is the only way we can see the inside, if you like, of the historical process, that the historical process among humans is projected.

00:46:02.000 --> 00:46:32.000
Into its religion and and that what is happening on an instinctual and unconscious level is projected out onto the religious forms which which again can take many forms, but I think it's important to view it within this framework and these 2 books are 2 books that I think are very important in that sense and also the time that they were written and they're both written at the early twentieth century.

00:46:32.000 --> 00:46:33.000
Okay, okay, sorry.

00:46:33.000 --> 00:46:36.000
You just need to move your slide on again to the last one. Thank you.

00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:50.000
And that these 2 books life against death on the one hand written by Norman O'brien which he calls the psychoanalytical meaning of history is an attempt to understand the role of Death.

00:46:50.000 --> 00:47:12.000
And life instincts understood from a Freudian perspective. As a motivating factor in in the history of humanity but also as a fundamental aspect of culture of all cultures and that the Attempts of humans to come to terms with death.

00:47:12.000 --> 00:47:23.000
Is a fundamental aspect of what produces the historical course if you like of humanity needing or feeling the need to change the world.

00:47:23.000 --> 00:47:38.000
Around itself and to change reality in fundamental ways. And Telead Chardin again was a Christian a Jesuit scientist, the theorist who tried to connect evolution to this development of consciousness.

00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:53.000
And to the idea that There was a drive towards the overcoming of contradictions through the the development of consciousness.

00:47:53.000 --> 00:48:02.000
In. As part of evolution and that that is what I'm quoting here. We've from Joseph Detskin.

00:48:02.000 --> 00:48:12.000
Just to finish off, he was, a a working class man living at the same time as Mark so independently of Marx.

00:48:12.000 --> 00:48:19.000
Came up with this the same idea of dialectical materialism. And I just think this quote is very important who says.

00:48:19.000 --> 00:48:49.000
Darwin is an ingenious interpreter of Hegel's theory. And what he means by this fundamentally is that Darwin shows the biological aspect of evolution but I think it is important to understand that biology is part of a wider universe and that that the evolution whether we call it that or not There is a movement within the universe and that consciousness, the development of consciousness has to be understood within a

00:48:49.000 --> 00:49:02.000
cosmic. Framework and I think that's the that's where I'll stop and take questions.

00:49:02.000 --> 00:49:06.000
Hello, sorry, my camera wouldn't come on there for some reason. That was a bit strange.

00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:12.000
Thank you very much, Jacob. We're going to go straight into some questions. Do you want to stop shading now?

00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:13.000
Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah.

00:49:13.000 --> 00:49:22.000
Or I'll do that for you actually. Here we go. And okay, so let me start with one now.

00:49:22.000 --> 00:49:30.000
Question from Jill. Do you see a difference between the religion and spirituality?

00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:45.000
Yes, in the sense that I think religion as we understand it tends to be, yeah, we tend to understand it as I said it again as organized religion.

00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:58.000
My only difficulty with that distinction between religion and spirituality. Would be that spirituality. Always has a social component.

00:49:58.000 --> 00:50:20.000
And how we understand that I think makes the distinction very difficult between between the 2 and to understand say in Hunter Ga religions as as a as as a example of a fundamentally different type of society and fundamentally different type of religion quite unquote.

00:50:20.000 --> 00:50:31.000
Is that the social basis and practices are part of the ideas so it's not there isn't a separation between the 2.

00:50:31.000 --> 00:50:40.000
And so that's why I use the word religion in this in this sense just because it has more of a broader understanding.

00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:48.000
Thank you. And we have another question from, Miranda. That's quite big question.

00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:51.000
It's religion. A way of controlling the masses?

00:50:51.000 --> 00:51:10.000
Definitely becomes that. Over time. But interestingly all the religions so particularly the Abrahamic monotheistic religions they all start as social movements at the beginning and they all start as rebellions.

00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:21.000
Of the the ordinary people, to varying degrees. So What becomes of them later?

00:51:21.000 --> 00:51:33.000
It is in some ways a different question to what motivates their their birth. And I would argue that Just as religion and ideology.

00:51:33.000 --> 00:51:46.000
Tends to reinforce the structures of the society. It's in. So religions in a fundamentally hierarchical society will be higherierarchical and will reinforce that.

00:51:46.000 --> 00:52:07.000
Wow, ideology changes as humans change and when there is social movements, they are generally put in. History so far they've generally been put in some kind of framework of a religion so I would say it's more complicated than just one or the other.

00:52:07.000 --> 00:52:12.000
Okay, right. Now here's our question from Elizabeth. Does morality affect attitudes to alter altered states of consciousness?

00:52:12.000 --> 00:52:25.000
Many religions appear to disapprove of the use of music, drugs, etc.

00:52:25.000 --> 00:52:42.000
Yes, again that is a much more recent development in terms of the history of religion. Nearly all religions start out with much more acceptance of these kind of practices.

00:52:42.000 --> 00:53:00.000
I would argue that There is a If we look at the history of religion, there's a growing tendency towards a kind of mistrust of the spontaneity in particular of these altered states of consciousness.

00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:19.000
Particularly as religion becomes more dogmatic. But Even those religions which oppose the use of these things prayer and so on is still used in order to attain some other some altered state of consciousness in some way.

00:53:19.000 --> 00:53:26.000
So again, it's never quite so simple as one or the other, but,

00:53:26.000 --> 00:53:35.000
Okay. And a question from Sylvia, this is quite an interesting one. And do you see a distinction between religion and magic?

00:53:35.000 --> 00:53:48.000
Again, depends when we're talking about, in terms of Hunter Gavre of Society's The division is minimal with if they exist at all.

00:53:48.000 --> 00:54:05.000
The idea of a distinction between religion and magic I would say develops. With what could be called The axial age when there's a greater focus on rationality.

00:54:05.000 --> 00:54:24.000
And so on but also the the most important moment probably is the beginning of well, in the Abrahamic religions have always had a kind of whereiness of magic.

00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:31.000
And to some degree but magic always does reappear in these traditions as well. So it's it's a difficult one to necessarily answer.

00:54:31.000 --> 00:55:01.000
I would say that the the main and-magic period probably is our modern period in fact. The secular or the enlightenment period and Protestantism was when the, you know, the main witch burnings for example were the beginning of modernity at the beginning of modernity and that was when the power of the community and particularly the women in the community was fundamentally broken by a kind of professionalized

00:55:05.000 --> 00:55:12.000
He is and so on and that is when the biggest attack on on magic. Really took place.

00:55:12.000 --> 00:55:27.000
Okay, interesting. And, a question here from Margaret. Have your own views or affiliations to a religion changed as your knowledge of the subject has grown?

00:55:27.000 --> 00:55:36.000
Hmm. I've never I've never been a I've never been religious in the sense of following a religion.

00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:51.000
So in that sense, it's difficult to say. I would say my views. When I was very young, I had very simplistic kind of anti-religion views in general.

00:55:51.000 --> 00:56:00.000
As I've developed and understanding I think I've become more open to the underlying ideas of religion.

00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:09.000
But I wouldn't say I've I mean the closest I think I went for almost Buddhist phase but that's that's about it.

00:56:09.000 --> 00:56:14.000
Okay. Right. No, the final sort of comment here from Allen actually and you can see what you think about this.

00:56:14.000 --> 00:56:28.000
And Alan is saying, I think perhaps something is missing. Most religions established by very charismatic individuals.

00:56:28.000 --> 00:56:31.000
Jesus Buddha. Discuss. Do you think?

00:56:31.000 --> 00:56:44.000
Again, this clearly is an aspect of the development of religions. But I would again argue that

00:56:44.000 --> 00:56:59.000
Those religions Christianity Buddhism and so on develop at a particular time in history and when they develop is a time where there is a need for questioning.

00:56:59.000 --> 00:57:23.000
The kind of social reality and and and kind of reframing the world if you like. And these people represent that attempt to a degree that others didn't but I would be wary of saying that it's all down to that those individuals that the religions themselves come out of a social reality.

00:57:23.000 --> 00:57:34.000
And the response to these individuals. Is always linked to a wider wider context. In terms of the further back you go.

00:57:34.000 --> 00:58:04.000
There's a tendency for religion to become less human-based, if you like, that the beings that are worshiped well if we look at the other way religion has become more and more focused on human-like gods and human-like beings, whereas the further back you go, the more animal and non-human, those beings are so I would say it's less likely to be connected necessarily to to individuals.

00:58:09.000 --> 00:58:14.000
Okay, right folks, I think we need to leave it there. We're pretty much out of time.

00:58:14.000 --> 00:58:20.000
Thank you very much for that Jacob. Really fascinating stuff. I guess it's quite a debate, isn't it?

00:58:20.000 --> 00:58:26.000
So I hope everybody sort of enjoyed that and got a little bit of food for thought.


Lifelong Learning Week lecture - Thomas Hardy: then and now

In partnership with our friends at the Learning for Work Institute and City Lit, we hosted a special lecture focusing on Thomas Hardy, a man regarded by many as the elder statesman of literature. Join us as we explore what the world looked like in the 19th Century and the parallels we can draw with today.

Indeed the challenges people faced are similar to now. Hardy’s parents scrimped and saved to pay for his education to the age of 16 and he never lost his thirst for knowledge. He developed strong views on many of the topics of the day including equality, education and class, many of which are still very relevant today. 

As we celebrate our 120th anniversary, in this talk, we’ll consider Hardy the man rather than the writer and what was happening in his life towards the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th century. Join us to explore the evidence Hardy left us about his views on the issues that concerned him and others, and their significance to our world of today.

Video transcript

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Thank you very much, Fiona, and thank you, Simon. And I'd just like to say welcome.

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To everyone and I hope you enjoy the lecture on a man I find absolutely fascinating, Thomas Hardy. So, yes, match of party concerns over a hundred years ago are still around today and Hardy was very committed to many many things but one of the things he was committed to for the whole of his life was education and learning.

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He never stopped learning. He truly believed that learning is for life. So I think he'd have a lot in common with the WA.

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So, thomas Hardy. Yeah, the journey. Was absolutely incredible that took Thomas Hardy, novelist and poet as he later became and and certainly much loved in both of those spheres.

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It took him from a cottage. In higher Bock Hampton just outside Dorchester, Dorset in the West Country of England.

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To not one but 2 funerals at the end of his life. One was in a country child child.

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In his home village. And the other one was. In Westminster Abbey with the great and the good.

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Yeah, I, my screen went a bit funny there. I do apologize.

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You guys just said to everyone, please don't hit the screen share button please because that means you're going to share your screen with everybody.

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Thank you.

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Yeah, thanks everyone. I will tell you when I go on to the slides and I will tell you when I've changed the slides.

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Thank you. Yeah, so he made a remarkable journey. Born on the second of June, 1840.

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And that journey took him from his birth in a humble cottage in higher botan to 2 funerals, one in London in Westminster Abbey.

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And they other one in his home village. What was the reason behind that? Well, how do you express wish at the end of his life was to be buried in dogstick?

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He was a doorstep man. Dossip blood ran in his veins. He loved Dorset.

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It was his his county and that's where he wanted to be buried. However, by the time he died on the eleventh of January, the 1928.

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Of course he was famous, not only in Britain, but all over the world. And the public acclamation of him was such that they demanded that he have a funeral in London.

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So a comprise was reached. I search and came in, I'm removed Hearty's heart.

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And his heart was buried in St. Michael's Church, Stimford, Stensford. Very near higher Bock Hampton, his home village.

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And the rest of Hardy's body was cremated and buried in Poets Corner. And what's the happy?

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He had a huge national funeral and a measure of his status at the time of his death, and a measure of his status at the time of his death was that the pallbearers of his status at the time of his death was that the time of his death was that the pall bearers of his coffin were the pallbearers of his coffin were the Prime Minister.

00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:10.000
The leader of the opposition and leading scholars and academics. Of the dye. I'm fellow authors.

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Ratchard Kipling was won. So I think we get an idea of, reputation by then.

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He was a very private man, intensely private, and he destroyed many of his letters and notebooks.

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So we we luckily have other documentary evidence. But he gave all just to his executives on his death they were to be destroyed.

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He left us a new name. For the area in which he was born, bred, and grew up.

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Wessex and he took that name from the name of the old Anglo-saxon kingdom.

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Before England was unified as one kingdom.

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And he grew up with stories of working class rebellion working class.

00:05:11.000 --> 00:05:41.000
Pressure for a better way of life. He was sympathetic to the, to the Working class calls, he grew up with stories, he grew up with stories of charges, and with stories of the swing riots and she grew up with stories of the So working class rebellion and struggle for a better way of life was very much bred into him.

00:05:42.000 --> 00:06:03.000
He saw the countryside economy changing from agricultural to mechanical. So from agriculture to mechanization and industrialization, he was concerned about the deskilling of rural workers and a hundred Plus years later.

00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:15.000
Some of these concerns are still around today. I'm now going to share my screen. And hope you'll be able to see my slides.

00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:21.000

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Okay, so there we are. Thomas Hardy then and now. I'm just going to move on from the title slide.

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Yeah, sorry, I'm having a few problems. With moving my slide.

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That's better. Yeah, these are just some of the books that He wrote and many of these titles may be very familiar to you.

00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:34.000
160 years ago, where Hardy was born was one of the poorest counties in England but he loved his home county passionately and of course today we can see the links between some of these concerns that I've mentioned and some of the topics that he brought into his books.

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Industrial unrest amongst the workers. Economic problems bringing about completely new and new way of working, completely new jobs.

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Some jobs disappearing forever, some jobs changing, bringing disruption to people's lives, hardship and changes in working practices.

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All of this hard you grew up with because of course The latter part of the nineteenth century that we're going to be looking at was no different to when Hargi was born.

00:08:11.000 --> 00:08:31.000
These were still the concerns and they are still concerns today. Hearty hertails at his mother's knee, as they say, of the working classes and local folklore, local legends.

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And hey was deeply interested in the lives of rural folk. He was no misery or kill joy.

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Anyone who thinks that Hardy's books concentrate on the miserable, the dull side of life are very, very wrong.

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Yes, certainly some of them are harrowing to read in places, but Hardy is a writer that brings us joy, pleasure and enjoyment of everyday things.

00:09:06.000 --> 00:09:13.000
He loved the world. He loved nature. He loved animals. Sea, sky.

00:09:13.000 --> 00:09:24.000
And he drew pleasure from life. Later in life, he wrote a poem called Great Things. And in the poem he says, Music is great, dancing is great.

00:09:24.000 --> 00:09:44.000
Horse riding is great. Nature is great. Cider drinking is great. So hearty or was stressed the good things in life as well, dancing, singing, drinking cider horse riding, enjoying yourself.

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A music above all, he was passionate about music. But he recognizes a class written system and he recognizes in justice, sadness, disadvantage and he acknowledged it.

00:10:02.000 --> 00:10:09.000
But he didn't succumb. To these things. Hey, addressed some of the sacred cows.

00:10:09.000 --> 00:10:25.000
Of the nineteenth century in his work and letters. To fellow authors, but what is going on into the 18 nineties and the early 19 hundreds in houses life.

00:10:25.000 --> 00:10:33.000
So we're going to be looking at what he was doing between the 18 nineties and up to his death in 1928.

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Obviously I'm not going to be able to bring in every aspect but I'm just changing my side now.

00:10:37.000 --> 00:10:49.000
I'm going to try and bring in as much as I can. So in the 1890, s where do we find Hardy?

00:10:49.000 --> 00:10:58.000
Well, he's married. He's, living in a house in, Oh, call Max Skype.

00:10:58.000 --> 00:11:10.000
Just outside Dogger. A house he designed himself. He was formerly an architect in his early life, studied architecture, became an architectural draftsman.

00:11:10.000 --> 00:11:25.000
And went into being an architect. This was very much an up and coming profession then because wealthy Victorians were having houses built and houses altered.

00:11:25.000 --> 00:11:32.000
But the 18 nineties, he's established, he's written some of his best known works.

00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:46.000
Such as a pair of blue eyes. He's written, the mayor of Castbridge. In which he mentions the criminalization.

00:11:46.000 --> 00:12:05.000
Off poor people for simply being poor. Now this was very topical. The time because in the 18 eighties 18 nineties It was beginning to be felt that if you were poor, if you were unemployed, it was somehow your fault.

00:12:05.000 --> 00:12:29.000
So in 1886 he writes the mayor of Casterbridge and on this slide that I hope you can see on your screen that's the second book along these are some of the books that are best known to us far from the matching crowd written in, 1,874 very early work.

00:12:29.000 --> 00:12:47.000
Thomas Hardy writes the Mayor of Casterbridge in 1886. Where he talks about criminalising people because they're out of work on their power and we might think, well hang on, that's not unlike some of what goes on today.

00:12:47.000 --> 00:13:01.000
Tess of the D'urbervilles. An app standing success book of the year in 1891 he's addressing things like illegitimacy.

00:13:01.000 --> 00:13:15.000
People living together before their marriage. He's tackling topics. The Wafe, very hard for Victorian authors to tackle and still retain a readership.

00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:26.000
Judith Stuer that he wrote in 1895. And Jude tackles all of the things I've mentioned and a few more.

00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:38.000
So by this point in time. Party is the eldest statesman of English literature. He's the voice of the coming century.

00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:49.000
In the 18 nineties into the 19 hundreds. So briefly, where did it begin? Well, with his mother, certainly, his father was a stonemason.

00:13:49.000 --> 00:13:58.000
And builder. And his parents were forced to get married when Jemima becomes pregnant. She was a maid at a local house.

00:13:58.000 --> 00:14:13.000
Tom Thomas Tommy as he he was always known in the family. What's that first child? They would go on chat 3 more children.

00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:26.000
The following year, a talk to Mary was born in 1,851 and now the son Henry was born and a couple of years after that Catherine or Kate, as she was known, was born.

00:14:26.000 --> 00:14:36.000
Mother was a formidable lady and I hope you can see her on screen in the slide. Jemima Hand was her maiden name.

00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:52.000
She was passionate about education. She was widely ready. She worked as a humble maid. I saw, but she believes strongly in education, not just for her eldest son, but for all 4 of her children.

00:14:52.000 --> 00:15:01.000
She also believed that none of them should marry. But that they should stay together and look after each other.

00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:10.000
And this is hardest birthplace, the cottage, higher Bob Hampton, about 3 miles outside.

00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:20.000
Dochester in Dorset and this was a family home that had actually been built by Hearty Thomas Hardy's.

00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:24.000
Great grandfather.

00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:25.000
And this is the bedroom in the house in which Thomas Hardy was born. He was a very frail child.

00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:38.000
They thought he was dead. But it said the baby was put on the chest of drawers thinking that he was dead while the midwife attended to his mother.

00:15:38.000 --> 00:16:04.000
Then they heard a cough and realized that little Tommy was actually alive. He was quite a frail child, but fiercely intelligent child, he absorbed all the stories that his mother told him and learned to read and write very quickly.

00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:13.000
And, his parents script and saved to pay for a good education for all 4 of their children.

00:16:13.000 --> 00:16:15.000
This is where he went initially to the village school at Lower Bock Hampton. This was run by Mrs. Julia Martin.

00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:37.000
Who was the lady of the manor, but he very quickly outbrew this school. And his mother insisted that he be sent the 3 miles to Mr. Last's Academy.

00:16:37.000 --> 00:16:49.000
In Dorchester so every day 10 year old Tommy walked 3 miles into Doncaster and 3 miles back again at the end of the day.

00:16:49.000 --> 00:17:01.000
At school, his passion for education matched his mother's. There was only enough money available to pay for his education.

00:17:01.000 --> 00:17:13.000
Until he was 16. But how he made the most of his time at the school. He learned Latin, he learned Greek and healer mathematics.

00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:31.000
And he's real passion for education was started here. Here's holiday. At about 18 on the left and Thomas Hardy aged about 25 on the right.

00:17:31.000 --> 00:17:39.000
At 16 he left school. He was apprenticed to an architect in Dorchester as an architectural draftsman.

00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:49.000
He worked hard at his profession. In fact, he would win medals. For his architectural drawings.

00:17:49.000 --> 00:17:58.000
And, after about 5 years working in Dorchester, what for an architect called John Hicks?

00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:13.000
After about 5 years, he was ambitious to move on. So he took himself to London. And this is the commemorative plaque on the outside of the building.

00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:25.000
It's a bank. Today where, Thomas Hardy. Actually worked.

00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:29.000
I'm moving to the next side of Wessex. His beloved Wessex.

00:18:29.000 --> 00:18:41.000
It was while working for Hicks that he starts to write stories. He was passionate about reading and passionate about writing.

00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:52.000
And poetry at this stage in his life is his first love. And the story, he, he begins to create.

00:18:52.000 --> 00:19:06.000
Center around what he knows. Stories of rural working folk. And their lives in Wessex as he would very quickly rename Dorset.

00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:21.000
And later when asked where he got his inspiration for the locations in his novels, he would say that his Wessex was a partly real partly dream country.

00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:29.000
But he's love of Dorset was constant and remained with him for the whole of his life.

00:19:29.000 --> 00:19:37.000
So in 1860, s London hardy encounters A busy bustling city. He called it a city of 4 million people with 8 million eyes.

00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:49.000
He hated it. It's noisy, it's polluted, it's dirty.

00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:53.000
And party can't. A bide rubbing shoulders with people in crowds. All his life he would have a phobia about being touched.

00:19:53.000 --> 00:20:10.000
So he walks in the road mainly to avoid them. He sees squalor, he sees that probation alongside wealth.

00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:18.000
And this would inspire. Some of the plots of his novels. Hardy is second by what he says in London and after 5 years he becomes quite ill.

00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:36.000
He's very successful in London. He goes to work for an architect, famous architect called Blumfield, Arthur Blufffield, whose office is a near Trafalgar Square.

00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:41.000
But in London, he hates the noise. He hates the dirt and the bustle.

00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:59.000
So he comes back home again to While he's in London, however. He takes advantage of everything London has to offer and his passion for learning takes him to external classes at King's College London.

00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:07.000
It takes him to museums to art galleries where he is absorbing as much as he can.

00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:16.000
Later on, Hearty would embark on a very structured plan of self-improvement rating.

00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:27.000
Helped by his first wife. And, yeah, London's opportunities for education. He, He loved.

00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:44.000
And the Push Museum was another one of his songs and I hope you're able to see the slide of part of the British Museum here and he would he would spend hours studying there.

00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:52.000
Coming back to Dorset, his work as an architect. Takes him next to Combo.

00:21:52.000 --> 00:22:00.000
Where he's employer asks him to do architectural sketches for the renovation of St.

00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:13.000
Juliet's Church near And it's here that he meets the rector of the parish, the clergyman of the parish sister-in-law, Emma Lavinia Gifford.

00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:27.000
Emma was the same age as Thomas Hardy, born the same year so they're both they're both in there like twenties and this is in 1870.

00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:40.000
And, he will see Emma as a young woman when Harty first knew her and over on the right hand side we have Emma in later years, 1,905.

00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:49.000
She died in 1912. The marriage at first was extremely happy but later it gradually, deteriorated.

00:22:49.000 --> 00:23:06.000
Emma Lavinia had ambitions herself to be a writer. She like Hardy was passionate about reading, she was passionate about poetry.

00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:25.000
And she gets up her own ambitions to further his I's to be a writer. He's already written one novel called Poor Man and A Lady but unfortunately couldn't get it published.

00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:34.000
Because subject matter was thought to be too contentious. So no publisher will touch it. So she helps him.

00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:44.000
She acts as she's secretary. She acts as his researcher and she basically puts her own writing ambitions on hold.

00:23:44.000 --> 00:24:01.000
But the marriage that was so happy initially would deteriorate rapidly. They really grew apart hearty success as a writer took him into a very masculine male dominated world.

00:24:01.000 --> 00:24:21.000
And Emma begins to feel pushed out. She begins to feel resentful. She had a strong religious faith and hardy as she brought her gradually begins to lose his religious faith and to see the flaws in religion.

00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:32.000
And so, their marriage deteriorated. It never broke up completely. They lived under the same roof but they virtually lived separate lives.

00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:45.000
And she was very much aware that Hardy had infatuations for other ladies. Now this is, this slide shows, part of the first draft.

00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:56.000
Of Hearties, 1891 bestseller Tess of the D'urbervilles, where he addresses so many of the contentious issues of the D'urbervilles, where he addresses so many of the contentious issues of the day.

00:24:56.000 --> 00:25:04.000
Poverty. And people's lives because of poverty. Hey, Trust is illegitimacy.

00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:18.000
Hey addresses the inequality. Of the sexes and the fact that it's expected that women will conform to certain stereotypes.

00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:28.000
And that women will not want to go into higher education. The role is as a support, an adjunct of the man.

00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:38.000
It isn't about becoming educated yourself. This is something that he would protest about very strongly.

00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:47.000
Tess, subject matter of, a country girl who gives birth to an illegitimate child.

00:25:47.000 --> 00:25:55.000
Was very contentious, very contentious. In its day but nevertheless people book the book.

00:25:55.000 --> 00:26:12.000
And in 1891 it was declared the book of the year. How's first success would come much earlier than this in 1874 he publishes far from the matching crowd.

00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:23.000
I'm with far from the matching crowd the money begins to come in. He begins to become up there with some of the heist earning novelists.

00:26:23.000 --> 00:26:32.000
In fact, at 1 point in his career, Hardy was the highest earning novelist in Britain.

00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:55.000
This is the book that caused an absolute sensation. In 1895. In the 18 nineties, has become, we could say darker, certainly test deals with some really contentious issues of the day.

00:26:55.000 --> 00:27:15.000
But in 1895 the publication of Judy obscure covers so much that people were concerned about in the latter part of the nineteenth century and would be concerned about going into the twentieth century.

00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:25.000
Hearty by now is also involved and so was Emma. His wife. In the course of women's suffrage.

00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:38.000
Hard to support cheap women's suffrage. He, from his letters that he wrote, people like Millicent, Garrett Fawcett, who was a formidable force.

00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:47.000
In the women's suffrage movement. He protests about the role that society has allocated to women.

00:27:47.000 --> 00:28:01.000
And if we're looking at links between Yes, and today, hardy then and our world now, well we can find so many in June.

00:28:01.000 --> 00:28:05.000
It's about inequality of opportunities in education. Jude is a humble stone mason, but he longs to go to university.

00:28:05.000 --> 00:28:24.000
All he can do is look over the wall. He can't get in. He receives a letter from the University Authority saying, no, we won't accept you as a student.

00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:30.000
You're a working man. Basically stick to being a working man. You're not an intellectual, you never will be.

00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:50.000
So just face it. He's elbowed off the pavement by millionaire sons who are undergraduates at the university for the simple reason that he's a working man in working men's clothes.

00:28:50.000 --> 00:29:04.000
And in Jude, Hardy protects strongly about this inequality. He says education. Opportunity should be there for everyone, not just the privileged few.

00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:12.000
Hearty supports in showed the non-typical the non-stereotypical family unit.

00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:23.000
A guy in his letters, he says, why should there only be one family unit that is the proper family unit.

00:29:23.000 --> 00:29:36.000
Father, mother, children. He says why are mothers of illegitimate children discriminated against? Why are their children discriminated against?

00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:48.000
He's tackling this and many other issues in June. And also as well as people living together without marriage, having children and they're unmarried.

00:29:48.000 --> 00:30:02.000
He's also tackling, how society Discriminate against anyone who is poor, who is unemployed, who is not able.

00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:11.000
Just support their family for whatever reason it might be. And again, if we look at this parallel between then and now.

00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:23.000
We can see that there is still discrimination. In the world. There is still an implication sometimes that if people are out of work it's their own fault.

00:30:23.000 --> 00:30:34.000
There are places in the world where women are being denied an education where women and girls are forbidden from getting an education.

00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:49.000
So we can see the links between hardest time and our own time and hearty campaign vociferously against injustice.

00:30:49.000 --> 00:31:14.000
Hardy was critical of we might think of much of the world he inhabited. Along with his love of the world his love of the natural features of the world there was a realism with Hearty that although we I'm not happy with what is happening in our world.

00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:24.000
So Sometimes there are forces outside our control. There are things beyond our control that we cannot change. Hearty admits this.

00:31:24.000 --> 00:31:39.000
He said I've got a voice. Meaning himself. I can speak out but ordinary people often feel they cannot speak out about these things.

00:31:39.000 --> 00:31:51.000
But Hearty says you must. It's your duty to speak out. He says even if they are forces beyond your control, you still must make your voice heard.

00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:59.000
I know I suppose linking that to our own times. You know, it's about making sure that we vote.

00:31:59.000 --> 00:32:10.000
And, that we are not frightened to speak out if we think something is wrong. Hearty said to think about something.

00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:21.000
And protest about something. Even if you know that you are powerless on your own change, it's no reason not to do it.

00:32:21.000 --> 00:32:33.000
So here's some of the things that Hardy was critical. I'm from the left hand side we have rural workers hardy as I've said protested strongly against the deskilling of rural workers.

00:32:33.000 --> 00:32:46.000
He was an anti mechanization at all. He accepted that in a changing world, mechanization is coming.

00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:57.000
Whether we like it or we don't. But he felt that more care should be taken over the huge disruption to rural people to lives.

00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:01.000
And in this painting, you have, husband wife and 2 children and the husband is walking the country roads because he's looking for a job.

00:33:01.000 --> 00:33:15.000
He's out of work. And of course, with mechanization, more people were being put out of work.

00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:24.000
Religion, Hardy lost his religious faith and we can date it from the time he went as a young man to a church service.

00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:34.000
At his local church. And the clergyman preached a sermon criticizing the working classes for daring to aspire to the professions.

00:33:34.000 --> 00:34:01.000
Now Hardy considered himself working class and he had dared to become an architect. And Hardy said, so much of religion is harsh, it's cold, it's sympathetic, it's not giving people support, it's actually pigeon holding people.

00:34:01.000 --> 00:34:22.000
Into a set. Frame. If your working class you fit in this box. If your upper class you fit in another box and hardy said that isn't right there should be equality of opportunity and people should be encouraged to better themselves.

00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:31.000
Votes for women, women suffrage. He was a great promoter of women's suffrage.

00:34:31.000 --> 00:34:55.000
Hey. He certainly wrote letters and campaigned on behalf of women and he went on record just saying that he believed that actually men need to feel no threat from women's suffrage because women given the phone would actually encourage a motivate men to speak out more.

00:34:55.000 --> 00:35:08.000
On various issues, privilege and class. Yes, Hardy. Was very critical of privilege and class.

00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:17.000
She said, why is education so elitist? Why is higher education reserved for certain sections of the community?

00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:30.000
Why not for everyone? And and learning. College. He believes that everyone should have the means to aspire to higher education.

00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:43.000
So yeah, moving on to the next slide. Some of the farm workers that Hardy would have seen in the fields around.

00:35:43.000 --> 00:35:56.000
And, he protested, as I said, strongly about their conditions of work. And the fact that nobody seemed particularly bothered that they were being put out of work.

00:35:56.000 --> 00:36:12.000
And one reviewer commented that Hardy's work perclaims the voice of the working classes speaking more clearly and distinctly than ever before.

00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:30.000
Now, Hardy in the latter part of the nineteenth century, early part of the twentieth century. Was very much, as I said, the eldest statesman, the, the voice of the new century.

00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:39.000
Hearty's work is incredibly popular, not only in Britain, but all over the world. Hence it gave him a platform.

00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:44.000
For speaking out about things he didn't agree with.

00:36:44.000 --> 00:36:55.000
After the publication of Jude, Hardy was pilloried. By some sections of the literary press and certainly some sections of the public.

00:36:55.000 --> 00:37:06.000
Because they regarded it and the subject matter and the way He dealt with this contentious issues. As a step to fall.

00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:22.000
So. Hearties reaction was to become very depressed at that point, but gradually, certainly with the dawn of the new century in 1,900.

00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:34.000
Things begin to change. There's a more liberal outlook. Coming. And, party's work is re-examined.

00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:43.000
People change their opinion. He might stop the ground that he's lost, the obscure.

00:37:43.000 --> 00:37:48.000
Hardy never believed that he shouldn't have published you. Jude is a very moral story and very sympathetic to the working classes.

00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:59.000
Yes, it's a book that is very difficult. 3 because it's quite harrowing in places if you've read it you'll know what I mean.

00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:22.000
I will say no more on that. But in of course, 1899. Up until 1902 Britain is involved in the ball war what was hardy's attitude to the ball war and the first world war where Hardy was an anti war.

00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:38.000
He certainly believed that the First World War had adjust calls. And he wasn't in opposition. To Britain declaring war at all.

00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:49.000
However, Hardy becomes increasingly disillusioned and horrified. As the First World War proceeded.

00:38:49.000 --> 00:39:01.000
And he says that The reason for this is because the war is being taken over by kings. Princes, rulers!

00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:11.000
Politicians, the top brass of the military. And they're making it about them. There he goes.

00:39:11.000 --> 00:39:19.000
They're promoting themselves, they're using it as a bit of self-promotion and Hearty says, that's not what it's about.

00:39:19.000 --> 00:39:29.000
It's about the rank and file soldiers. It's about the men in the field. Who are doing the fighting who are doing the dying.

00:39:29.000 --> 00:39:45.000
Hearty sympathy was always with the soldier and the suffering of the soldier. His war poetry. Is Absolutely on a par with any of the war poets whose names we recognize.

00:39:45.000 --> 00:40:04.000
People like Rupert Graves. Sorry, Robert Braves, Rupert Brooke, Siegfried Sassoon, the names that we recognise, Thomas Hardy, needs to always appear alongside them.

00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:18.000
And in a letter to right to John Goesworthy in 1918. Hardy's phoneulated his own ideas about the future of the world.

00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:34.000
He's sickened by how little progress. Mankind has made. He's tried in his books to show mankind progressing towards changing the wrongs of the world.

00:40:34.000 --> 00:40:42.000
But he regards the Boer War and particularly the First World War. As a step backwards. He said, what happened to humankind working to improve things?

00:40:42.000 --> 00:40:58.000
When will we ever learn that war really doesn't solve any problems. Isn't it about human nature?

00:40:58.000 --> 00:41:16.000
About mankind progressing, not taking. Steps backwards. And in his letter to John Goldsworthy, he says the exchange of international thought is the only possible salvation for the world.

00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:39.000
Hardy's work was taken to the trenches by The soldiers, they loved his work. Because, in the environment they're in, they're looking for something that reminds them of home that reminds them of I rural, more gentle way of life.

00:41:39.000 --> 00:41:49.000
And they love his work and they love his poetry. And after the first world war, Party's home at Maxgate.

00:41:49.000 --> 00:42:07.000
Becomes a mecca. For the young men who were poets during the first world war. People that I've mentioned like Robert Grave, SICK FREE SOUND, they come to eulogize, not that he wants you to be eulogized.

00:42:07.000 --> 00:42:21.000
But, but certainly, they are grateful to him for producing the, the wonderful poetry that has helped them through some of their darkest days.

00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:51.000
And Hardy's poetry carries on protesting. And Christmas, 1924 on this slide very short very brief On the side you can see he writes this at Christmas, 1924 after the first world war is over but he's very much thinking of the first world war And he's also protesting against religion.

00:42:54.000 --> 00:43:04.000
How little religion has done. Where did religion stand during the 4 war and the first world war. He's asking that question.

00:43:04.000 --> 00:43:15.000
Peace upon earth was said. W sing it and pay a million priests to bring it. After 2,000 years of mass.

00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:28.000
We've got as far as poison gas. And of course we know that poison gas was used as a weapon of warfare for the first time in the First World War.

00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:49.000
So the first world war. Seconds hardy. And it takes him a long while to recover. He regards it as a complete waste of human life because the nations of the world have learned nothing from what's gone on before.

00:43:49.000 --> 00:44:01.000
This is Hearty's home at Max Gate, the one he designed himself. She signed by Hearty and built by his father and younger brother Henry.

00:44:01.000 --> 00:44:16.000
In 1912 in November of 1912 party's first marriage ended with the death. In November of that year of his wife Emma.

00:44:16.000 --> 00:44:25.000
And, Emma's death. Brings about a complete Change in outlook of hardy.

00:44:25.000 --> 00:44:38.000
Hearty. Was very depressed by the reception given to chew the obscure. And he turns away from novel writing to writing poetry.

00:44:38.000 --> 00:44:51.000
An accuracy. From 1898 when he publishes his first volume of poetry. And till his death in 1928.

00:44:51.000 --> 00:45:03.000
He produces. The most marvelous poetry. Suddenly after Emma's death, Emma's death seems to inspire him.

00:45:03.000 --> 00:45:12.000
To produce even better poetry. Because It's as though he's fallen in love. With the woman.

00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:21.000
Who was she's partner in a marriage with so much went wrong. Where he was to blame. She was to blame.

00:45:21.000 --> 00:45:29.000
They were to blame. Why didn't they sort you out when they had the chance? How could it have been changed?

00:45:29.000 --> 00:45:40.000
Could what happened have been avoided. He's asking all these questions in his poetry. And his poetry this period in his life.

00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:48.000
It's the most moving poetry of love and loss. So again, he's examining his life.

00:45:48.000 --> 00:46:00.000
Hearty marriage, a kind. In February of 1914 he married a later called Florence Dugdale shown on the slide here.

00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:23.000
She was 39 years his junior. And she had been working for him. As secretary and researcher There is quite strong evidence that they were involved in an intimate relationship before Emma's death.

00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:30.000
Hearty and Florence, again, photographed at Maxgate in the 1920.

00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:46.000
And hearty with Wessex. He's terrier. And, of course, as I've said several times before, he's in the twenties, he's the voice of the new century and, the, he's still campaigning.

00:46:46.000 --> 00:47:02.000
He's campaigning against inequality on what he perceives is wrong. With society. And how G and Florence again, only 3 years before hardy's death.

00:47:02.000 --> 00:47:13.000
And of course as an eldest statesman of English literature, today a bronze bust of him produced and you can see this.

00:47:13.000 --> 00:47:22.000
At the. Certainly the museum in Dorchester.

00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:33.000
Hardy died. On the eleventh of January, 1928. And he died of heart failure.

00:47:33.000 --> 00:47:43.000
He was 87 years of age. And, this is the final resting place of Haj's heart.

00:47:43.000 --> 00:47:53.000
He wanted his heart or he wanted his body, I should say. Buried with his first wife.

00:47:53.000 --> 00:47:56.000
But the public outcry. That he must have a funeral where he's buried in Westminster Abbey.

00:47:56.000 --> 00:48:10.000
Was so strong. That this compromise is reached and his heart It's buried. This is Thomas Hardy.

00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:24.000
And both of his wives would be buried with him. Emma who predeceased him and Florence who died in 1937.

00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:29.000
Some. 9 years after him.

00:48:29.000 --> 00:48:38.000
And you'll notice on the grave it says Thomas Hardy O. He was awarded the altar of merit in 1910.

00:48:38.000 --> 00:48:51.000
By King George the Fifth. It said he was offered a knighthood. But he refused because he's relationship was so bad with his first wife, Emma.

00:48:51.000 --> 00:49:00.000
He didn't want her being made Lady Hardy. Now, that sounds incredibly harsh, a rather cruel.

00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:03.000
But that's the story.

00:49:03.000 --> 00:49:26.000
And this is where the reminder of Harty's body was interred. He was he was cremated and his ashes in turn in poets corner and subsequently Rachel Kipling's grave would be very close to his and Thomas Hardy lies alongside Charles Dickens.

00:49:26.000 --> 00:49:36.000
Now I'm going to finish. At this point. So I'm very conscious of the time.

00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:43.000
And I'd like to finish if I may with a quote from Jude the Obscure. Hearties, 1895 novel.

00:49:43.000 --> 00:50:05.000
That caused such a sensation but mentioned so many topics that are still being discussed in our own times. And he says, as for Su and me, when we were at our best long ago, when our minds were clear.

00:50:05.000 --> 00:50:17.000
And our love of truth fearless. The time was not ripe for us. Well, can I finish by saying?

00:50:17.000 --> 00:50:40.000
So I hope the time will be ripe. For you to consider joining a WAA course. I think Simon, summed it up very well at the beginning of this lecture when he said we have a whole gamma of courses that you can join.

00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:49.000
And, we would love you to do so whether you want to join online or a face to face venue based course.

00:50:49.000 --> 00:51:01.000
Rest assured you will be made warmly welcome. So our close by saying thank you very much for joining the talk today.

00:51:01.000 --> 00:51:10.000
And I will be very happy to answer any questions that you might have. So I'm going to stop sharing now.

00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:14.000
And I'm going to come back.

00:51:14.000 --> 00:51:17.000
Thank you very much, Margaret. We're going to go straight to some questions now. We've got quite a few for you.

00:51:17.000 --> 00:51:22.000
So what we'll do is we'll try and get through as many of them as possible and I'm going to ask them kind of in the order of their popularity.

00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:32.000
I know you've all been voting for the questions. So first of all, most popular question, Margaret.

00:51:32.000 --> 00:51:41.000
Was Hardy considered to be on the autistic spectrum? Guides at his cottage in Dorset thought so.

00:51:41.000 --> 00:51:45.000
Sorry, if you could say the last bit, the owner, that went a bit blurry.

00:51:45.000 --> 00:51:57.000
Okay, guides his cottage in Dorset thought he was.

00:51:57.000 --> 00:51:58.000

00:51:58.000 --> 00:52:06.000
Yeah, sorry, I've still got a problem with my sound at this end. Yeah, I'm really, really sorry.

00:52:06.000 --> 00:52:07.000

00:52:07.000 --> 00:52:10.000
Okay, let me say again, do we think Hardy was on the autistic spectrum? The guides that his cottage in Dorset thought thought that was the case.

00:52:10.000 --> 00:52:29.000
Yeah, I think he may well have been. I think he may well have been yes. There are certain things about hardy that do seem to follow the pattern, yes, but of course we can't know that for certain.

00:52:29.000 --> 00:52:33.000
And, yeah, it's very difficult at this. Point in time to be absolutely sure on that.

00:52:33.000 --> 00:52:58.000
But I do suspect that there was. Some if it wasn't autism it maybe was something else but I do suspect I mean other people have mentioned that he had problems with his attention span.

00:52:58.000 --> 00:53:08.000
And, you know, all sorts of things. But yeah, I, think that's a very strong possibility that he was.

00:53:08.000 --> 00:53:17.000
Okay, thank you. Next, Do, do we know which of his books was his favourite?

00:53:17.000 --> 00:53:28.000
Well, I'm going to say. Tess of the Durbervilles. He never actually said that himself.

00:53:28.000 --> 00:53:46.000
But what he told us was he fell in love with Tess. As she wrote the book. He fell more and more in love with Tess and he always held a very special place in his heart and he would go back.

00:53:46.000 --> 00:53:55.000
She's talking about tests, time after. I mean, it wasn't only about the topics that test covers.

00:53:55.000 --> 00:54:07.000
It was Tess as a character because it is believed that the character of Tess was based on his maternal grandmother Betty.

00:54:07.000 --> 00:54:08.000

00:54:08.000 --> 00:54:16.000
So I'm going to say Tess. But if Thomas Harvey were here, he might be furious with me.

00:54:16.000 --> 00:54:22.000
Okay. Right. Here's another question here. Another quite a popular question.

00:54:22.000 --> 00:54:28.000
Who would you say are Hardy's literary descendants writing today?

00:54:28.000 --> 00:54:37.000
Oh, that's, that's a really hard one. Janel, I can't think the the only sounds off top my head.

00:54:37.000 --> 00:54:49.000
I can't think of one. Today because when I look at what Hardy wrote about and how the way He writes.

00:54:49.000 --> 00:54:58.000
Hey, gives us despair 1 min and then he gives us joy in the next sentence and he uplifts us.

00:54:58.000 --> 00:55:10.000
He is, I can't think. Of a writer that has hardy's ease. I'm going to use the word ease, it's probably inadequate.

00:55:10.000 --> 00:55:15.000
But to describe it, but it just seems to and I honestly can't think of anyone that I've read.

00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:30.000
From modern time, for more modern times from our own times. That. Equal holiday.

00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:35.000
There are, if you're looking at, novelist who wrote at about the same time as Hardy.

00:55:35.000 --> 00:55:49.000
One that springs to my mind that has a similar gift. But not so pronounced was Flora Thompson.

00:55:49.000 --> 00:55:54.000
Of Lark Rice to Kangalford F.

00:55:54.000 --> 00:55:59.000
Mottentai? No, I don't think I can think of anyone.

00:55:59.000 --> 00:56:12.000
Okay. Right, here's another popular question amongst our participants today. Did Heardi actually become explicitly politically active?

00:56:12.000 --> 00:56:24.000
Not that we know of. He never, he was a J. He was certainly a JP in the area, but as a man of substance.

00:56:24.000 --> 00:56:37.000
And most people of substance were asked to become JPs. No, he never showed any inclination.

00:56:37.000 --> 00:56:50.000
Take up politics directly to become directly involved. Certainly he wrote letters to politicians. And both in his books.

00:56:50.000 --> 00:56:58.000
And in the letters he wrote to friends. To, people who just wrote fan letters to him.

00:56:58.000 --> 00:57:15.000
To, family members to fellow authors. Fellow poets. He, Ups, absolutely stresses the causes that he believes in and what he thinks is wrong.

00:57:15.000 --> 00:57:20.000
With the society that we live in at the moment and how mankind really is making a mess of things.

00:57:20.000 --> 00:57:33.000
He's very honest, he's very frank. But he shows no inclination to become directly politically involved.

00:57:33.000 --> 00:57:42.000
Okay. Right, here's a question for you here. Obviously you talked about, and Hardy being a big supporter of women's suffrage, etc.

00:57:42.000 --> 00:57:51.000
Etc. This is a question. Why did, why did Hardy in turn his second wife upstairs in his home at Max Gate.

00:57:51.000 --> 00:57:56.000
Doesn't seem to be in keeping with his support for women's rights.

00:57:56.000 --> 00:58:05.000
No, it was Emma, his first wife. Now, I'm, in hardest defense.

00:58:05.000 --> 00:58:13.000
Hearty aits in his poetry that they were both wrong. She was wrong, he was wrong, how?

00:58:13.000 --> 00:58:29.000
But he blinds himself. But he's very honest in his examination of what went wrong. Now when Mac Skype was built and the marriage was rocky by 1885.

00:58:29.000 --> 00:58:42.000
But the marriage deteriorated over a number of years. One of the reasons is probably when Florence Dugdale becomes secretary researcher.

00:58:42.000 --> 00:58:50.000
The other reason exteriorated was the publication of Jude the obscure. Emma was religious.

00:58:50.000 --> 00:59:10.000
She believed strongly in religion. She regarded Jude as a personal attack. On her. Now what she then did when Harty had an extension built to Max She asked Hardy and this came from Emma herself.

00:59:10.000 --> 00:59:24.000
Would he? Create 2 roads in the attic. Where she would withdraw to in practice. She moved into these 2 rooms.

00:59:24.000 --> 00:59:28.000
Oh, she didn't tell her, Joe.

00:59:28.000 --> 00:59:41.000
She asked her to do that. She wanted to distance herself. From his writing. She was upset by 2 obscure.

00:59:41.000 --> 00:59:50.000
She was upset at the criticism of religion. She recalled it as a personal. Attack on her.

00:59:50.000 --> 01:00:01.000
And then the advent of Florence Stockdale, I think, finished the job. And she withdraws from him and effectively they start to lead increasingly separate lives.

01:00:01.000 --> 01:00:13.000
But the decision to withdraw into the 2 attic rooms was Emma's. It wasn't hardies.

01:00:13.000 --> 01:00:25.000
Right, there we have it then. Okay, now another question. This is an interesting one. And are there parallels between dickens and hardy?

01:00:25.000 --> 01:00:36.000
I, I think. I think there are, yes. I mean Dickens. Addresses boldly.

01:00:36.000 --> 01:00:48.000
Some of the wrongs of society and so did Harding. So yes, I think so, but 2 very different styles of writing.

01:00:48.000 --> 01:00:58.000
Hearty-tout-story Dickens Waves. Some very complex plots within plots.

01:00:58.000 --> 01:01:06.000
Hardy sets out to tell the story, I think. But there are similarities.

01:01:06.000 --> 01:01:22.000
Oh, definitely. They're both concerned about what they perceive are the wrongs of society and also the fact that mankind is not progressing in kindness, in generosity.

01:01:22.000 --> 01:01:32.000
In caring for their fellow human beings. And I think Dickens makes this point very, in much of his writing.

01:01:32.000 --> 01:01:42.000
You know, where is the progress? That should be going on and hardy takes up the torch and says where is the progress?

01:01:42.000 --> 01:01:49.000
Why are we going backward instead of forwards? So yeah, I think there are similarities there.

01:01:49.000 --> 01:01:59.000
Okay, right another question. Did Hardy know George Elliott? Do we know if he liked her work and or was influenced by it?

01:01:59.000 --> 01:02:10.000
I, as far as I know, he never met Julia. I mean, again, the mistress of the realist novel, Definitely.

01:02:10.000 --> 01:02:23.000
As far as I know, they never met. But I'm going to take a gamble here and say that I would be very surprised if he hadn't read.

01:02:23.000 --> 01:02:32.000
At least some of her work. Middle March, I will think he had read.

01:02:32.000 --> 01:02:33.000

01:02:33.000 --> 01:02:40.000
But I can't put my hands on my heart and say I know that. Because he told us so.

01:02:40.000 --> 01:02:52.000
Okay. Question here. Is there any possibility that Jemima's husband was not Hardy's father?

01:02:52.000 --> 01:02:53.000

01:02:53.000 --> 01:03:03.000
Well, there is a possibility. Absolutely. I mean, Bye, they were married in December.

01:03:03.000 --> 01:03:17.000
1839. She married Thomas Hardy Senior because his father was also called Thomas. And young Tommy makes his appearance on the second of June, 1,840.

01:03:17.000 --> 01:03:37.000
They had been keeping company to use a nineteenth century term with each other for quite a long while because the story behind their meeting is that he came Thomas Senior with his uncle and his father to play the violin.

01:03:37.000 --> 01:03:51.000
He loved music, he could play the violin, he a love that he handed down to Thomas Hardy because Thomas Hardy also learned how to play the violin and love music like his father.

01:03:51.000 --> 01:04:04.000
And they Thomas Senior, his father. And his uncle, come along to some micro church at to play the fiddle.

01:04:04.000 --> 01:04:14.000
For the church service because no organ in the church it was very common in the nineteenth century for a church not to have an organ.

01:04:14.000 --> 01:04:28.000
So they relied on travelling musicians. And, apparently she, made an absolute Beeline for the young.

01:04:28.000 --> 01:04:32.000
We're musician Thomas Hardy.

01:04:32.000 --> 01:04:41.000
So yeah, it's possible. It is possible, of course. We will never know.

01:04:41.000 --> 01:04:55.000
But, it seems unlikely. Because You know, they were courting each other. More or less steadily.

01:04:55.000 --> 01:05:03.000
And then she announced she's pregnant and as far as we know, there were no other.

01:05:03.000 --> 01:05:15.000
My friends. In in the offing but of course we can't know that for certain but certainly Thomas Senior did the decent thing.

01:05:15.000 --> 01:05:20.000
And when she announced she was pregnant, he married her.

01:05:20.000 --> 01:05:26.000
Okay, right. And I'm just conscious of time a little bit, folks. So I think we're going to have another couple of questions and then we'll need to start wrapping up.

01:05:26.000 --> 01:05:36.000
And so here's a question here. We're hardy's books thought to be shocking by Victorian readers.

01:05:36.000 --> 01:05:50.000
Bye, absolutely, I think less the early books like, a pair of blue eyes, which is an early book that he published.

01:05:50.000 --> 01:06:00.000
And, certainly far from the magic crowd, it's one of his early books, published, 1,874.

01:06:00.000 --> 01:06:16.000
That caused some comment. Because subject matter, you know, this very dashing army sergeant who's conducting 2 simultaneous love of their and makes the servant girl pregnant.

01:06:16.000 --> 01:06:29.000
But he's not more and more contentious. And particularly from the time of.

01:06:29.000 --> 01:06:38.000
Tess, 1891. Definitely. And Mayor of Casterbridge, 1886.

01:06:38.000 --> 01:06:46.000
Yeah, people were saying that he's beginning to look. At the deeper, darker.

01:06:46.000 --> 01:07:00.000
Side of life and human nature. About the sale. Of a man of his wife. You know, he's selling his wife to another man.

01:07:00.000 --> 01:07:08.000
So yeah, some contentious issues there, but. I think the 2 that were really thought to be.

01:07:08.000 --> 01:07:18.000
Darker and more controversial, a test in 1891 and of course Jude in 1,895.

01:07:18.000 --> 01:07:30.000
Okay, thank you. Now we'll have one more question and it's kind of wrapping up a kind of couple of questions that people have asked which is kind of really Do we know for the impact?

01:07:30.000 --> 01:07:34.000
Wars of him speaking out on the various issues that he felt strongly about. Was there any impact on the people in power?

01:07:34.000 --> 01:07:43.000
Was there any impact on legislation? And what do we know?

01:07:43.000 --> 01:07:54.000
I think it's very difficult if not impossible. To attribute any direct impact on legislation.

01:07:54.000 --> 01:08:10.000
So I deal with that part first. Certainly know of no evidence that tells me. The women. Oh, some women were given the vote in 1918 because of Thomas Hardy.

01:08:10.000 --> 01:08:19.000
And that the Frankice was widened. To other women in 1928 because of Thomas Hardy.

01:08:19.000 --> 01:08:26.000
I can't claim that and I think if Thomas Hardy were here, he won't claim that either.

01:08:26.000 --> 01:08:32.000
It's like dripping on a stone, isn't it? He's keeping up! The pressure.

01:08:32.000 --> 01:08:48.000
Hey, and in the same way in the First World War Hey makes his fuse about how much the politicians And, the military.

01:08:48.000 --> 01:09:01.000
The top ranks in the military are taking the credit for themselves. And he says this is wrong, you know, it's not you doing the fighting and the dying, it's young men.

01:09:01.000 --> 01:09:09.000
And he said the same in the ball war. He wrote a wonderful poem called Drama Hodge.

01:09:09.000 --> 01:09:17.000
That talks about this young country boy who dies in South Africa. I'm in the Army in the Ball War campaign.

01:09:17.000 --> 01:09:31.000
So I think it's virtually impossible to say that legislation change because of Thomas Hardy but I feel sure that and I'm sure Hardy would agree with me.

01:09:31.000 --> 01:10:01.000
But it's like One voice. Crying out how much more powerful are you if you're one of many crying out And one thing that Hearty always said was Even if you are unable to directly influence what is going on because the forces outside your control that does not mean you should not be speaking up.

01:10:02.000 --> 01:10:20.000
About it. And he believed that with whatever. Whatever levels of society you came from, it was your duty to speak up because he said only by doing that will change come.

01:10:20.000 --> 01:10:25.000
Thank you, Margaret. Thank you so much for that. Hardy was clearly a forward thinker of his time and there is so much that he talked about then.

01:10:25.000 --> 01:10:35.000
That is still so relevant today. So thank you very much for that, Margaret.

01:10:35.000 --> 01:10:46.000
Thank you everyone. Thank you very much. I'm passionate about Thomas Hardy and I hope I've made a few converts if you weren't before.


Lecture 166 - Symbolism in art: the hidden meanings in paintings

Can you read the hidden meanings in paintings? For centuries artists have relied upon symbols to convey their intentions, but how do we find out what lies behind some of the most well-known works of art?

In this extensively illustrated talk with WEA tutor David Brindley, we’ll explore the wealth of symbolism in western art from the Renaissance and Baroque periods, the Impressionists to Surrealism, and from contemporary abstract art and offer an interpretation of the hidden meanings within these pieces.

Download the Q&A here

Video transcript

00:00:05.000 --> 00:00:16.000
Thank you Fiona and good afternoon everyone. And I shall immediately share my screen so Hopefully everyone be able to see the slides of my lecture.

00:00:16.000 --> 00:00:17.000
We can.

00:00:17.000 --> 00:00:23.000
Here we go. So we need to talk about symbolism in art. I'm going to explore first what we mean by a symbol.

00:00:23.000 --> 00:00:31.000
And then look at some very specific paintings which have got a real depth of symbolism and some of them really quite puzzling symbolism.

00:00:31.000 --> 00:00:40.000
And try to work our way through what they're about of what the artists were trying to say. So Let's start with What is the symbol?

00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:53.000
Well, we'll recognize this symbol, don't we? McDonald said on 3 or 4 years ago I read this that the golden arches as they called are the most recognizable symbol in the world.

00:00:53.000 --> 00:01:01.000
Well, I'd like to think the Christian Cross or perhaps the Muslim Crescent is more recognizable than McDonald's Golden M.

00:01:01.000 --> 00:01:10.000
But it's more than a symbol, it's a symbol and a sign somehow. Because when I see that, I know that I can go in there and get a burger and chips.

00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:27.000
But also it says something about the spread of American culture. Then because there's one of those in Paris and in Amman and in Jerusalem and all over the world it says something about the way American culture spread.

00:01:27.000 --> 00:01:36.000
This is just a sign. This means that ladies can go to the loo there. And it's a sign which is understood in our culture.

00:01:36.000 --> 00:01:44.000
But not necessarily in all cultures. I suspect if you go in the Amazon jungle are looking for a loo, you probably wouldn't see that sign.

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It's not something people there use or recognize.

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But these are symbols. If I were to outside the American Embassy in London and burn this stars and stripes, you would know I was saying something symbolic.

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Saying something about my dislike of America, perhaps, and their policies. And so what is really quite an ordinary bit of colored cloth?

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Takes on a huge amount of meaning. When it becomes a stars and stripes or a union jack or a tricolour or whatever.

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And this is quite an important symbol. I wearing one of those bands of gold on my finger.

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And it's a band of gold that's been there for over 40 years. Now, if I lost it.

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I could easily buy another one for I don't know a couple of 100 pounds worth of gold I guess.

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But it wouldn't be the same would it? Wouldn't be the same as this one on my finger now that my wife put on my finger when we got married.

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So that bit of that bit of metal. In a sense has changed its meaning. Because it went through the wedding ceremony.

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And it is a special significance to me.

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This is a symbol that King Charles was given. In his coronation earlier this year. It's the orb.

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And it's symbolizes in that service, symbolizes the world. Over which Christ's cross reigns.

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It's a reminder to the monarch that actually he or she is not the ultimate authority. There is something even greater than the monarch.

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And how about this for a symbol? Now this is by Zerberan. It's obviously a sheep tied up.

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And if I were to show you this and say, what's that about? Where you'd say it's a tied up sheep.

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But the title gives us a clue. Because Zerberan entitled this the Lamb of God.

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A highly symbolic comment, and in, in the book of Isaiah in the Old Testament, The the prophecy refers to the Lamb of God who will be slaughtered.

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And that was applied to Jesus in the New Testament. So if you can read that sort of symbolism, you begin to understand what Zerbran was trying to do.

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When he painted a symbol such as this.

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So what are the beginnings of symbolism in art? Well, the beginnings are actually quite difficult to read.

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Because we haven't got any texts. We haven't got any oral traditions. We have not people around who know what some of these objects or some of these paintings were for.

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So this ivory lion man for example. Between 30 and 40,000 years old. Found in Germany.

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It's been calculated that it would taken someone about 6 weeks to carve this piece. And also has been quite smooth by handling.

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So it's been handed around perhaps. Perhaps people sitting around around the fire. Or in a large hut.

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One in a cave and it's clear that he held some significance for them. That it symbolized something.

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But we don't know what. We don't know what it's about because we've got nobody to interpret the symbolism of it for us.

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And how about this this rock art in Australia? This piece is perhaps 8 to 10,000 years old. The archaeologists say.

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Now, is this the community? All holding hands is the family. Is it meant to be the whole of humanity?

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Is this symbolising something? About living together in harmony and peace. You see what I'm trying to do now is tease out some meaning.

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From pieces of art to tease out some meaning from bits of art which is no explanation for us. We don't really know what it's about, but we can we can perhaps make good guesses.

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So what do very early art suggest? Well, it might suggest as that one seems to the relationship between people and animals and spirits.

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And it is perhaps an attempt to make sense of our place in the world. Who are we? What are we doing here?

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How do we relate to each other? That's always underlying much of art that's made. It might be about an element of control.

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Some of the paintings that you might know in the caves in France where there are a bison and deer being painted is that about controlling them?

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He said, art about controlling the weather? And perhaps some art and this might come into that category. Is about connection with one's ancestors.

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It's not just the family now, it's the family stretching back through the ages that they're wanting to commemorate.

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He is a similar one. These are handprints. They presumably made by putting your hand in some sort of pigment, pressing it onto the wall.

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But I'm going to go now to some. What we might call proper art. Art that you may have seen.

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Or that is clearly symbolic. And is often really quite difficult to read. And I get I could talk about 3 pieces of what between the National Gallery in London.

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This is the ambassadors painted by Holbein in 1533. They the French ambassador and the French bishop.

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Holbein was well known for his portraits of the Tudor Court. And indeed we probably view the Tudor Court through Holbein's eyes more than anyone else's eyes.

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And this famous portrait of Henry, for example. We know what Henry looked like because Holbein told us or rather Holbein showed us.

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So here are the ambassadors. What do we see? Well, we see 2 clearly very well off gentlemen.

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Imagine how much that coach cost him. And this fur coat. But we see them. Leaning on a table.

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And this table has lots of slightly odd things on it. I can see and a quick look, I see a loot.

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And an open book and perhaps a globe. Various mathematical instruments here that I don't quite understand.

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They're standing on quite a rich carpet. There's a green curtain behind them. But the curtains just drawn aside there to show something.

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Behind the curtain. We'll look at that in a moment. And there's this very odd shape here.

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What's that about? Well, there's the globe. And remember, you know, in 1533, the world is just opening up.

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It's, it's barely 50 years since Columbus failed to America. The world is being discovered.

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Always saying these 2 men are men of the world. Literally. They understand places to understand the globe.

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And that odd thing there If you were to look at this painting from down in this corner Good at the National Gallery.

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Look, look up from that corner and squint at it. You see a skull. What's that?

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Well, is it a reminder? To these clearly very well off. Well-traveled men of the world renaissance men that actually you know you don't possess all this stuff.

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One day you're going to end up like this because everybody does.

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And behind that curtain? There's a half of a crucifix. The crucifix just being hidden, either that curtain is just being pulled across.

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To hide it was just been pulled open to reveal it.

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And there's a hymn book. It's a hymn book. Scholars tell us, is in book of hymns by Luther.

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One of the founders of the Reformation. And there's an arithmetic book. And the arithmetic book is open interestingly.

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At a page about division.

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So, on there's a loot. And the lute if you look very closely as a broken string.

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You just see the string there that I'm outlining.

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No, are all those? Symbols of religious. And political division. That's the suggestion.

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The crucifix is half obscured by Green Curtain. Symbolizes the division of the church.

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The broken string on the lute. Is about ecclesiastical disharmony during the Reformation.

00:11:01.000 --> 00:11:07.000
The open book of music is Lutheran. And the book of mathematics is open our page of division.

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Now, all that seems to suggest that when Holbein painted it, He was painfully aware. Of the way Europe was being divided by the Reformation.

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And he's putting all of that into his painting in in really quite obscure symbolism. Which is really rather difficult to read.

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But that's not all this other stuff.

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So there's a shepherd's dial. This is what a shepherd takes into the fields to read the time.

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There is a universal equinoxial dial. Goodness knows what none of those is. I haven't got a clue.

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But it is used to show something about the movement of the moon and the stars. There's a polyhedral sundial.

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Which will tell you the time at various places. On the planet. And there's torquitum.

00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:01.000
Designed to take and convert measurements made in 3 sets of coordinates. So you calculate where you are.

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You calculate the horizon, the equator and the elliptics and tells you where you're.

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What are all those about?

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Well, clever people who handed them all up. Say the instruments indicate the eleventh of April. 1533 at 1030 a.

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M. Wonder if anybody put into chat what happened at that time on that day. Well, surprise, surprise, that's the day and the time.

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That Henry VIII married Anne Boleyn. That was their public marriage. They had a a private marriage some months before that no one knew about.

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But that was the day they got married. So is Holbein saying The date these people got married is the date all these divisions.

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Coming apart. That the known world is breaking up into bits.

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This guy Penovsky, a Jewish emigre writing in America in the 19 fiftys and 60.

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I talked about symbolism in art and tried to understand it. He said, imagine that you're walking in the park.

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And you see a friend come towards you who raises his hats. Why is she doing that? What's that about?

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What do you know because you're part of the same culture? That this is your friend and he's raising his hat in greeting.

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But there's it another layer going on, says Penovsky. Why does he raise his hat?

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Why is that a symbol of greeting? If you dig a bit, you discover that in medieval times Medieval knights in armor when approaching each other, if they were friendly.

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Would both remove their helmets. Because when you do that, you're vulnerable. You're open to attack.

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So you only do it to a friend. So says Penelope, there are 3 layers going on.

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Let's look at a painting. With the strata in mind. So this primary subject matter. As the natural form. What is this?

00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:18.000
This is a man raising his hats. Secondary, what does it mean? My cultural knowledge tells me that he's my friend, so he's greeting me.

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Thirdly, what does it mean? Well, this is derived from medieval knights who raised their helmets in greeting.

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Let's supply it to this Leonardo da Vinci. What do I see? I see a mother and her child.

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An obvious ubiquitous image isn't it? But my cultural knowledge suggests. Because it's painted in the Reformation in Western Europe and because I've got a background in theology, my cultural knowledge suggests this is Mary and Jesus.

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It's a Madonna. But let's interpret it further. What is the child doing? He is reaching out to a red carnation.

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A red coronation the color of blood. The child is reaching up to it. He's accepting his destiny.

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Is saying that I know that one day I'm going to die.

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Not quite sure where the red streak has come from across the screen. I think I put it there.

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Paul Tillick, a philosopher writing in America. Said that while signs are invented and forgotten symbols are born and die because symbols are complex.

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I'm certainly not doing that. Simples are complex. Their meanings can evolve. As the individual or culture evolves.

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So all that makes us ask, how do we read art? Reread it because we got a cultural background.

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We bring to it stuff we already know. And we bring to it our experience. But also we need to understand some of the symbols in order to read the art.

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So do we need an interpreter? We need someone to tell us what these symbols mean. Well, it looked with that very ancient art I was showing you, that lion man.

00:16:17.000 --> 00:16:24.000
But yeah, we need someone to tell us, don't we? Take us by the hand and say this is about so and so.

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And also we need a certain degree of artistic and spiritual sensitivity in order to read what's going on.

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And there may be class issues as well. If you ask a Marxist about art, they say it's all about class division and struggle.

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I't get into that tonight. So here's another one. Also in the National Gallery.

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Bye, Jan Van Eyck. Painted in about the 14 twenties probably. It's called the Arnold Feeny portrait.

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So what's going on here? Well, we know that this guy is a rich Flemish merchant.

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Sorry, he's an Italian merchant, but he's in low countries painted by the Flemish painter, Jan Van Ike.

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You know this is his wife we know their names We see these 2 people we see. Puzzling me a pair of outdoor clogs there.

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We see a little dog, well the dog is easy. A dog is usually a symbol of faithfulness.

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You see a mirror? We see a chandelier. If we look at this closely we see that on this side it's got lighted candles.

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And on this side the candles have burned out. Is she pregnant? That's quite a part of the debate.

00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:59.000
Really. Is it a marriage portrait? And engagement portraits. Is it a portrait to Celibate that she's about to give birth?

00:17:59.000 --> 00:18:10.000
If we look in the mirror, which is between them there. You see something very strange. We see the backs of these 2 people whose portrait is being painted.

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And in the door we can see 2 or maybe 3 figures. Is that the artist? Is it me and you?

00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:30.000
Is that the viewers of the painting? Is it witnesses to a wedding that's going on? How do we begin to unpick all of that?

00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:36.000
And understand what's going on there. And there are loads of suggestions about this portrait.

00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:42.000
One even. Is that she has recently died. Which is why the candles on this side are out.

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And the candles on this side alighted. And if we look closely. At the mirror we find that it's it's all scenes from the life of Christ around this side He's still alive.

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Loads part the passion story. And on this side, he's died. Now, I'm not convinced by that.

00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:11.000
I don't think it's a portrait showing this girl after she's died. Is she pregnant or not?

00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:17.000
Well, one suggestion is she died in childbirth. Again, I'm not convinced by that.

00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:23.000
Some people are suggesting, well, he's a cloth merchant. Look at how much cloth she's got here on her dress.

00:19:23.000 --> 00:19:28.000
So she's just lifting it up so she can walk. You take your pick on that one.

00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:37.000
What do you think is going on? We can probably never get to the bottom of it. But it's a really interesting puzzle.

00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:43.000
To try and struggle with what's going on. Here's another piece in the National Gallery in London.

00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:51.000
Botticelli the mystical relativity painting 1,500. Now here We know perhaps a little more.

00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:59.000
About what's going on. But you had Botticelli helpfully. Gives us a paragraph at the top of the art.

00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:08.000
It's sensitivity. He is married in Jesus. With Joseph, we got a wonderful garland of angels dancing around.

00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:16.000
And some very funny business going on down here. Let's have a closer look. There's Mary and the baby.

00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:26.000
The oxen the ass as usual. Of Joseph has fallen asleep. Of Joseph's had a hard night of this so he deserves to sleep clearly.

00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:36.000
Here's some angels. Here. It looks like one or 2 people. Actually being dragged up out of their graves.

00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:47.000
We're a bit closer. Here the dancing angels. Each of them holding a scroll. Saying things like, hallelujah, welcome the newborn king and so on.

00:20:47.000 --> 00:20:59.000
These 3 angels here who are reading a book. And that book is probably Books of prophecies about Jesus.

00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:09.000
Down below? Well, I just love, see a little demon there. And little demon there. These demons are are running away.

00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:17.000
Because of the birth of this child. The angel here. Who was pointing these shepherds.

00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:25.000
Towards the birth and the same happened this side. And here are angels dragging people up out of the earth.

00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:32.000
Out of their graves. The symbol of resurrection, obviously. So what's it all about?

00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:40.000
Well, along the top Botticelli paints this. This picture at the end of the year 1,500 in the troubles of Italy, Italy's just been invaded by France again.

00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:52.000
I, Alessandro Botticelli, Now, there's a puzzling bit in the half time after the time.

00:21:52.000 --> 00:22:05.000
Painted according the eleventh chapter of St. John. In the second war of the apocalypse during the release of the devil for 3 and a half years, then he shall be bound in the twelfth chapter.

00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:14.000
And we shall see him buried. As in this picture. What on earth is that about? We go back to the picture.

00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:24.000
What do we looking at? Well, there was a sort of theory around it 1,500. That the world was about to end.

00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:31.000
Because there's a very odd bit in the book of Revelation the last book in the New Testament about the devil being let loose.

00:22:31.000 --> 00:22:41.000
For a time and half a time. But after that A woman will give birth to a baby. And the devil will be defeated.

00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:52.000
So bodyicelli is painting something to do with that. Whether we could decipher it any further, we certainly see hints of resurrection in it.

00:22:52.000 --> 00:23:00.000
We see hints of these devils here being defeated. But Botticelli has given us and it's a small painting, it's only 1820 inches across.

00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:09.000
Has given us a real puzzle in this. I'm challenging us really to go and stand in front of it.

00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:16.000
And work out what it's about from the clue that he's given us.

00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:26.000
Get a fast forward 300 years or so. To the Pre-raphaelites. Because the Pre-raphaelites absolutely love symbolism.

00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:29.000
There's a huge amount, the Pre-raphaelites, are almost embarrassingly rich in symbols.

00:23:29.000 --> 00:23:33.000
It drips out of them. And Holman Hunt is one of the biggest culprits of overdoing symbolism.

00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:42.000
This is the Highland Shepherd.

00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:45.000
It's in I think it's in Manchester in Manchester or Liverpool.

00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:53.000
I can't remember Hmm. And here is the bad shepherd. You might remember Jesus described himself as the good shepherd.

00:23:53.000 --> 00:23:58.000
This is the bad shepherd. Because the bad shepherd, is ignoring his sheep.

00:23:58.000 --> 00:24:07.000
They've got bloat. Here's the lost sheep wandering off into the distance. Why is the bad shepherd doing all of that?

00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:16.000
Because he's been distracted by a pretty girl. A little bit closer. Well, there's there's a half an apple here.

00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:27.000
Isn't that interesting? Is Holman Hunt suggesting that this is really mirroring? What happened in the Garden of Eden.

00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:33.000
When Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit. That's half an apple is always a clue in paintings.

00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:41.000
He's holding, which we can't see properly here. He's holding what's been identified as a death's head moth.

00:24:41.000 --> 00:24:49.000
Why is he showing this pretty girl the death said moth? What's that about? So obviously it's something about.

00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:56.000
The nature of the bad ship and the good shepherd. What distracts someone and turns them into a bad shepherd?

00:24:56.000 --> 00:25:02.000
What happens to the sheep when they when they're neglected?

00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:09.000
And this is Holman's wonderful painting the scapegoats. Holman Hunt was struggling with belief.

00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:19.000
In the mid 18 fiftys and so as you do took himself off to the Holy Land for a couple of years to paint out there to see if he could rediscover his faith.

00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:25.000
And the scapegoat is one of the sacrifices in the Old Testament.

00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:34.000
And in the Old Testament the high priest on the day of Atonement puts his hands on the head of a goat.

00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:44.000
And symbolically transfers the sins of all the people onto the goats. They then tie a red ribbon around the goat sawns.

00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:51.000
And send the goat out into the wilderness. Carrying with him the sins of the people.

00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:57.000
He doesn't last very long because he is last year's goat and there's the year before goat and is another goat.

00:25:57.000 --> 00:26:07.000
But ritually symbolic. And see the care with the Cholman hunters painted this. Each hair of the goat lovingly painted.

00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:14.000
And you can see the weight of the people sins on the goat's shoulders, can't you?

00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:20.000
This is a very famous Holman hunt. You've probably seen this on all sorts of cards. The light of the world.

00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:26.000
But Jesus says, look, I'm standing at the door and knocking. And I'll come in if you let me in.

00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:34.000
And the interesting thing about the way Holman Hunters painted this, there's no handle on the outside of the door.

00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:43.000
It's a bit like Downing Street. No handle on the outside. You can only open that door from the inside.

00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:51.000
And this is by Millay, another of the Pre-raphaelites. This one is, embarrassingly dripping with symbolism.

00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:55.000
I've stood in front of this way, it's in the Tate Britain in London.

00:26:55.000 --> 00:27:04.000
And tried to count the symbols in it just just too many to counter really Here's the boy Jesus.

00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:13.000
With his mother Mary. And his father, Joseph. The boy Jesus has hurt his hand on a nail.

00:27:13.000 --> 00:27:20.000
He's pierced his hand with a nail that's obvious bit of symbolism There's the nail having been pulled out of his hand.

00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:28.000
Joseph is making a door. Jesus said, I am the door to the sheepfold. Here's a boy with a ball of water.

00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:36.000
John the Baptist is a ladder. Jacob Ladder leading the angels up and down from heaven with a dove sitting on it.

00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:51.000
The dove being of the symbol of the Holy Spirit. Here are a load of sheep. Re see better out of that window there's a vine out of that window so everywhere you look there's this sort of riches of symbolism.

00:27:51.000 --> 00:27:53.000
But the critics at the time said, This is just too obvious. There's just too much of it.

00:27:53.000 --> 00:28:04.000
He's so overdone the symbolism. There's a triangle there symbolizing the Trinity for example.

00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:11.000
But the other sort of symbol, I've talked I've talked really about symbols so far that you have to decipher.

00:28:11.000 --> 00:28:18.000
Symbols that are puzzles for you to work at. Some of which you might recognize quickly, like in that one.

00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:25.000
But some of them, and like in that Arnolphini portrait, that need a lot of deciphering a lot of work.

00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:33.000
Some of them are meant to pass on information. If you see a saint with a key, You know it's Saint Peter.

00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:39.000
Why is it Peter? Because Jesus says to Peter, behold, I give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven.

00:28:39.000 --> 00:28:43.000
You can let people in let people out.

00:28:43.000 --> 00:28:54.000
And this is the book of Kells. Held in Trinity College Dublin. Produced some time in the late eighth century probably.

00:28:54.000 --> 00:29:03.000
And this is the the front page as it were. These beautiful, beautiful medieval. Illustrative manuscripts.

00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:12.000
And each of these is symbolizing one of the 4 gospel writers. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, each of them has a symbol.

00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:17.000
Showing who he is.

00:29:17.000 --> 00:29:32.000
The same figures are here. In this tapestry in Coventry Cathedral. When the old Coventry cathedral was bombed in 1941 The cathedral was rebuilt and reopened in 62 or 63.

00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:39.000
And many of you have probably been to it it's a wonderful a repository for great works of art.

00:29:39.000 --> 00:29:46.000
And this is the written Christ. With those 4 symbols. Of the 4 gospel writers.

00:29:46.000 --> 00:29:56.000
Same as those. Good updated in modern art around him. And the most moving thing about this is look here.

00:29:56.000 --> 00:30:08.000
There is a human being. Showing both our insignificance. Also the protection that there is in Christ offers.

00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:15.000
Which saint is this. Which saint would be pictured with a wheel. Well, it's near Bonfire Night.

00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:20.000
It's St. Catherine. That's Catherine's real Catherine's wheel.

00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:31.000
But how about this? Well this guy has got 3 balls of gold. 3 balls of gold which became the porn broker's sign.

00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:41.000
And the legend is that this bishop in the fourth century A. Noting that those a very poor man in the town.

00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:49.000
This poor man had 3 daughters. And that 3 daughters, because the man was so poor, couldn't afford a diary.

00:30:49.000 --> 00:31:01.000
3 daughters would be sold into prostitution. So the bishops secretly on 3 successive nights went to the house and dropped a bag of gold.

00:31:01.000 --> 00:31:07.000
Down the chimney or a gold ball down the chimney, depending on which between the legend you believe.

00:31:07.000 --> 00:31:14.000
He is of course Saint Nicholas and that's the beginning of our St. Nicholas for the Christmas legend.

00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:25.000
He's he was a real man who is a bishop in Turkey at the beginning of the fourth century.

00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:30.000
Any of these in art, particularly in Renaissance arts.

00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:41.000
Does this wonderful George and the Dragon? By Ucelo. Paolo Ucello painted in around 1460, 1450, 1460.

00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:51.000
And George and the Dragon was a very frequent symbol. Of the fight between good and evil. In Renaissance Italy.

00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:59.000
Here's George on his white charger. Here's the princess looking remarkably medieval.

00:31:59.000 --> 00:32:08.000
Is a wonderful dragon good enough to be in Harry Potter. There's sunrise just coming up over the hills.

00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:21.000
There's a violent storm here. Almost threatening to overpower George. There's a bit more going on than that because There's quite a bit of sexual implication here as well with this girl.

00:32:21.000 --> 00:32:34.000
Chained to the dragon or tied to the dragon with the lead and it's George's long sharp hard spear that rescues her.

00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:40.000
This is the same subject. Interest if you get the National Gallery in London that's in one room in the Sainsbury wing.

00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:48.000
You walk through to the next room into the old gallery and this Jacob, just George and the Dragon is there by Tintoretto.

00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:58.000
Don't in Venice almost exactly a century later. This is just to show you really the contrast between very early Renaissance art.

00:32:58.000 --> 00:33:06.000
And Venetian. Renaissance, high renaissance it's called. And the differs the princess in this one.

00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:16.000
Is. A snack. The dragon has put aside for later. Is George and there he's piercing the dragon again.

00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:22.000
But this is why my favorites is my altar time favorites. This is by Hieronymus Bosch.

00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:26.000
It's in the Prado Museum in, in Madrid. I'm called the God of earthly delights.

00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:36.000
And it's in the shape of a triptych. An altarpiece you can close the doors of this.

00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:41.000
It's got a left hand panel, a center and a right hand panel. The left hand panel is the Garden of Eden.

00:33:41.000 --> 00:33:54.000
Everything is perfect. Adam and Eve, here they are. Unashamed to be naked. Or sitting down have your conversation with God.

00:33:54.000 --> 00:34:09.000
And around them Everything is getting on harmoniously. An elephant. And the giraffe looks as if Bosh has actually seen an elephant giraffe lots of painters painted them having clearly not seen them.

00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:18.000
A couple of unicorns here drinking from this lake. And the theory at the time was that unicorns really existed.

00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:25.000
But you and Conn didn't make it into Noah's Ark. And therefore didn't exist after the time of the arc.

00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:34.000
But there's one little hint that not everything is perfect. There's a cat carrying off a dead mouse.

00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:43.000
There is some sort of conflict, some sort of violence even. Underlying all of this perfection that we see.

00:34:43.000 --> 00:34:50.000
And that fountain at the heart of the garden is where life comes from.

00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:58.000
In the central panel everything goes wrong. In the central panel, human beings get up to all sorts of things they shouldn't do.

00:34:58.000 --> 00:35:03.000
Is a man making love to a mermaid. People of different colours. Consorting with each other.

00:35:03.000 --> 00:35:08.000
People going in this secret tunnel here to get up to no good. The consequence of it says Bosh is this.

00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:23.000
The consequence is a dystopian world, a world in which everything is on flame, a world in which everything is crumbling.

00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:34.000
Another symbol of good and evil is David. And the fight between David and Goliath. This is Michael Angelo's David in in Florence.

00:35:34.000 --> 00:35:42.000
This is kind of Caravaggio's David. Kind of Agios David is just slain Goliath and has cut off his head.

00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:56.000
And whose portrait is the head? This is Carabaggio himself. Bizarrely, very oddly putting his own his own self-portrait in the place of Goliath.

00:35:56.000 --> 00:35:59.000
Just been slain by David.

00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:10.000
And then were symbols of death. Death in the Middle Ages, was often portrayed by artists, partly because it was all around.

00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:16.000
Partly because the effects of the plague as well admit the death was so common.

00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:20.000
Got to find a way to deal with it.

00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:27.000
So we see something like this. This is the Earl Arundel in Sussex. I'm here he is in his full armour.

00:36:27.000 --> 00:36:37.000
The But underneath him is his own cadover. Stripped of his armor stripped of his dignity.

00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:45.000
Is this saying when you walk into this chapel? Yeah, you think you're strong, you think you're well armored, but one day you will end up like me.

00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:49.000
One day you'll end up under here.

00:36:49.000 --> 00:36:55.000
This is a horrific portrayal, is in Belgium. It means the man with the worms.

00:36:55.000 --> 00:37:01.000
And you can see these worms are eating away. This is on, on the guy's tomb top.

00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:14.000
And the worms are consuming his body as he lies there seemingly in agony. Hmm. And this was a very popular medieval theme called the dance macabre.

00:37:14.000 --> 00:37:20.000
This one is in Tallinn in Estonia. And it was a common theme.

00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:26.000
And this this this piece was originally about 40 panels long, although, and only about 7 of them.

00:37:26.000 --> 00:37:32.000
Here is the Empress. And the Empress is being taunted by these skeletons.

00:37:32.000 --> 00:37:38.000
Who are saying, oh you think you're rich and beautiful, you think you've got wonderful clothes.

00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:45.000
You could any day end up like me. And underneath is a long poem in Latin. Here's a quote from it.

00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:56.000
This is the cardinal. He's next one down from the Empress and the Cardinal's poem says this, have mercy on me Lord, now it has to happen.

00:37:56.000 --> 00:38:04.000
There's no way from me to escape from you. Whether I look before or behind, I always sense death close to me.

00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:14.000
Of what use can the high rank be to me which I attained? I have to leave it behind and instantly become less worthy than a foul stinking dog.

00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:23.000
This art is not meant to make you feel joyful. This art is not meant for you to stand there and say, oh isn't that lovely?

00:38:23.000 --> 00:38:35.000
What a pretty pain. It's actually to make you reflect on your own mortality and it does that really quite brutally and disturbingly.

00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:41.000
This is the same theme, but this time in a book. This is in Lambeth Palace Library in London.

00:38:41.000 --> 00:38:54.000
Really interesting because These are printed properly as we know it with movable type. These pieces were printed with A woodblock.

00:38:54.000 --> 00:39:01.000
And then they were hand colored. So here for instance is the monk. There's the monk's poem.

00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:07.000
There's the monk's skeleton reminding me of his death. Here is the money lender.

00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:14.000
I look at the way the skeleton is picking the money lenders pocket as the money lends money to a poor beggar.

00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:24.000
But it's showing us 3 different types of production with movable type. Woodblock print and hand coloring.

00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:32.000
And I got finished last 5 min with the surrealism. Which is again dripping with symbolism.

00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:41.000
Serialism was a movement which you probably know in the middle of the twentieth century. And it was influenced by Sigmund Freud.

00:39:41.000 --> 00:39:55.000
This is Freud on the right, a cigar is sometimes just a cigar. And what surrealism was trying to do was to access your unconscious mind or the artist's unconscious mind.

00:39:55.000 --> 00:40:10.000
Freud had this theory that 80% of our mind is below the surface. So I'm not spelled unconscious wrongly sorry about that so down below what you know is going on is all the other stuff which is driving you.

00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:19.000
All the hidden memories of childhood, all your sexual desires which are not good enough to be let out into the public and so on.

00:40:19.000 --> 00:40:26.000
All your hates and your desires are down there somewhere and they're driving what you do all the time.

00:40:26.000 --> 00:40:32.000
So here's Max Enst in 1922, Edipus Rix.

00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:44.000
What's that about? Well, it's dripping with symbolism. There's something in it about a walnut is a testicle.

00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:51.000
Because we remember Eddie Pusx kills his father and marries his mother. Is that what's going on in that?

00:40:51.000 --> 00:40:58.000
Is that the effect of a dream? Is he showing us one of his own dreams as soon as he wakes up?

00:40:58.000 --> 00:41:09.000
So art is becoming Not so much about what I see out there in the world. It's becoming much more to do with what is here in the artist's head.

00:41:09.000 --> 00:41:23.000
Or the artist subconscious or the artist's heart. And much twentieth century art and we could do a whole session on surrealism and twentieth century art, much twentieth century is not about the outside world.

00:41:23.000 --> 00:41:31.000
It's about the inside of the artist or the inside of the viewer. Here's the best known surrealist Salvador Dali.

00:41:31.000 --> 00:41:37.000
In, in many ways, himself, he was a work of art.

00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:53.000
This is the persistence of memory. When I was a student in London in the 19 seventys, pretty much every self-respecting student had a poster on their wall of a work of art by Dali.

00:41:53.000 --> 00:42:03.000
And Dolly tells us about this one in his diary. You had a dream and he woke up and tried to paint what was in the dream.

00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:14.000
But he said it was obviously related to things that were going on the day before. Because the day before he'd been reading about Einstein's theory of time.

00:42:14.000 --> 00:42:19.000
And you might remember, Einstein says that time is flexible. Time isn't fixed.

00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:38.000
It varies with the speed that you're travelling. So here are flexible timepieces. But Dali also said that last night I was eating a particularly runny camon bear.

00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:44.000
And that camon bear was almost sliding off the edge of the table.

00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:53.000
And in his dream world He's putting together the flexibility of time. With a runny camon bear.

00:42:53.000 --> 00:43:00.000
But some pretty horrendous bits this watch here. He's covered with ants, you can't see him very well in this production.

00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:17.000
These ants are squat scrawling over this time. This tree is bare and broken. Well, that's an image that a lot of First World War artists used when they were showing the devastation in northern France, for example, at the battlefields.

00:43:17.000 --> 00:43:26.000
And Dolly's world here. Is devoid of human beings. It's almost as if he's floating around.

00:43:26.000 --> 00:43:34.000
A depopulated world. And again, that's a theme that often crops up. In the aftermath of the First World War.

00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:44.000
Because artists are saying to themselves, Given the devastation of the First World War and then of the Second World War later.

00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:59.000
What can I paint now? I can't paint pretty pictures any longer. I've got to paint something about the horror of the destruction that human beings have brought upon themselves and upon their world.

00:43:59.000 --> 00:44:14.000
And here on the seashore. Is a dead whale. So it's a pretty horrendous picture, really, of the sort of world that Dali thought he was inhabiting and we are inhabiting.

00:44:14.000 --> 00:44:21.000
So I'm going to stop there. And hopefully I can see numbers of things in chatter going up.

00:44:21.000 --> 00:44:26.000
So hopefully Fiona will be able to feel some of the questions. I shall stop sharing.

00:44:26.000 --> 00:44:31.000
I certainly will. We've got a few questions here, so I'm just going to launch in everybody.

00:44:31.000 --> 00:44:32.000

00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:38.000
And now, in fact, I'm going to start with one of the questions that's just come in just just now actually.

00:44:38.000 --> 00:44:39.000
Did the person, this is from JM, sorry, I don't know your proper name.

00:44:39.000 --> 00:45:02.000
And did the person, this is kind of quite a general question, did the person who commissioned the painting discuss and agree with the painter the type of symbols to be used or did they have autonomy and secondary to that, Caroline is asking Who commissioned the whole bind?

00:45:02.000 --> 00:45:04.000
And might it help to say for some meanings?

00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:07.000
Hmm. Bye, Tipboard, sorry.

00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:17.000
Might help if you know who commissioned the Holbein might it help decide for the the meanings by you know knowing who who had commissioned it in the first place.

00:45:17.000 --> 00:45:24.000
We don't know who commissioned it. That's the first thing to say. Second thing to say about the Holbein.

00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:37.000
Is, I think it's quite a dangerous painting. I think I think painting a painting that that presumably Henry 8 would see Well, if we knew who'd commissioned it, we wouldn't know when he'd seen it or not.

00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:54.000
We would know where to see it a lot. And saying in effect that the marriage of Henry and Boleyn was part of all those splits, maybe even causing some of those splits that are happening in Europe during the Reformation is a pretty dangerous thing to be saying.

00:45:54.000 --> 00:46:00.000
And maybe Holbein is betting. That Henry won't be able to read the Symbols.

00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:08.000
And are they just private symbols for him? And the 2 presumably it was commissioned by the 2 characters who sat for it.

00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:13.000
And because their friend he was the French ambassador, he might have gone back to France with him.

00:46:13.000 --> 00:46:14.000
We don't know the history of that painting. Until it appeared in about the 18 fifties again.

00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:25.000
So, so we don't know is the answer to that, but it was it was some pretty dangerous symbolism.

00:46:25.000 --> 00:46:31.000
Would the commissioner have agreed the symbolism with the artist? I think it's a yes and no answer.

00:46:31.000 --> 00:46:43.000
In some cases, yes. So in some cases if, for example, your commissioning Leonardo da Vinci to do a mother and child.

00:46:43.000 --> 00:46:56.000
You'd probably have talked through exactly what he's going to do. And interestingly, a medieval artists workshops because they all work together in little groups in guilds.

00:46:56.000 --> 00:47:07.000
The medieval artist workshops we know in Florence had books of symbols. So when they're putting a saint in a painting, they could look through their book of symbolism.

00:47:07.000 --> 00:47:12.000
And find out, you know. How, how do you give a symbol of Saint Athanasius?

00:47:12.000 --> 00:47:17.000
But, but, but, but it was all there for them. And so was other things.

00:47:17.000 --> 00:47:26.000
So, we know, for example, that in, we know, for example, that in, in Delph, where Vermeer was painting, in the seventeenth century.

00:47:26.000 --> 00:47:36.000
There were books of symbols of what all the flowers and leaves meant and what all the animals meant. So the artist to assigned a meaning to each animal.

00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:47.000
And each flower. So when you when you're commissioning a painting you might say well I'm a bit sad at the moment because one of my children has just died.

00:47:47.000 --> 00:47:49.000
Can you put in something about that child as well as it being slightly upbeat? So they did did perhaps discuss what was going into it.

00:47:49.000 --> 00:48:00.000
But, but a lot of it is worth saying as well. Lot of it was subliminal by the artists.

00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:08.000
In other words, I don't think that they all the time. Knew exactly what they were saying when they used the symbols.

00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:15.000
It's a bit like, did Shakespeare understand all of Hamlet? I don't think he did probably.

00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:19.000
It's all coming out of his subconscious.

00:48:19.000 --> 00:48:24.000
Hey, I hope that answers your question, folks. No, I've got another one.

00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:33.000
It's this is in on the whole bind as well. Actually got a couple of questions about the the whole bind.

00:48:33.000 --> 00:48:34.000

00:48:34.000 --> 00:48:38.000
You talked about in the whole bind that the partially covered crucifix. But I think is related to the question I'm about to ask from Karen.

00:48:38.000 --> 00:48:46.000
And hopefully I'm right, Gavin. And if that represents Catholics trying to hide the religion.

00:48:46.000 --> 00:48:47.000

00:48:47.000 --> 00:48:59.000
Yeah, could well be. I mean, there are a number of paintings and there's some Bible, one by Vermeer as well, about the nature of the Catholic faith.

00:48:59.000 --> 00:49:08.000
In Protestant countries. An obviously what they were doing was hiding it. Now in 1533

00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:15.000
The split hadn't yet occurred with Rome in England. So you didn't really have to hide it in England.

00:49:15.000 --> 00:49:23.000
There were, there were moves towards Protestantism going on. But the Actors Click with Rome wasn't until I think 2 years later.

00:49:23.000 --> 00:49:31.000
And Henry wasn't excommunicated until 1538. So nominal at least, Henrietta Catholic.

00:49:31.000 --> 00:49:44.000
The other, the other really interesting fact about England in that period. You might know that the Mary Rose, the ship, the flagship of Henry's, Navy, which sank in the Solomon and was brought up.

00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:56.000
Sank in 14 for 1445 say 1545 70 40 victories which was a number of years after Henry's break with Rome.

00:49:56.000 --> 00:50:03.000
The the the most common item on the Mary Rose. Can you guess what that was Fiona?

00:50:03.000 --> 00:50:06.000
What was the most common item on the major roads which it brought up?

00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:11.000
I'm trying to remember. You remember it from quite some time ago. Okay.

00:50:11.000 --> 00:50:15.000
It was the knit though. There were more nitcomes than there were sailors. Isn't that interesting?

00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:17.000

00:50:17.000 --> 00:50:23.000
Just tell, show you what life must be like. Second most common item was the Rosary.

00:50:23.000 --> 00:50:26.000
In a Protestant England.

00:50:26.000 --> 00:50:27.000

00:50:27.000 --> 00:50:35.000
Okay, so which suggests that although Henry and the court might have become Protestant by 1545.

00:50:35.000 --> 00:50:46.000
The ordinary guys hadn't. You ordinary guys still prayed with their rosary. So, so trying to read what the division was at the time is really difficult and it may be.

00:50:46.000 --> 00:50:54.000
That Holbein is saying even in 1533 in that painting you know actually got to hide you Catholicism.

00:50:54.000 --> 00:50:59.000
You can't you can't have it out in the open and maybe that's what they're currently saying.

00:50:59.000 --> 00:51:15.000
Hmm. Okay, I hope that answers. Your question Karen another question from Stuart when did Holbein actually do the painting retrospectively was it evident at the time what the impact of the marriage be.

00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:23.000
Hmm. I don't know. It's a simple answer. I don't I don't think we know the actual data it was painted.

00:51:23.000 --> 00:51:33.000
Hmm. Okay. Right. Now we have another question from, I think this is, this is in connection with the Botticelli.

00:51:33.000 --> 00:51:34.000

00:51:34.000 --> 00:51:40.000
Could think Joseph be bowing in adoration, that's from Eileen.

00:51:40.000 --> 00:51:43.000
Well, maybe. Yeah, okay. That, that, that's, that's a nice comment for Jersey.

00:51:43.000 --> 00:51:56.000
It could be. But having said that, there are lots of medieval paintings in which Joseph is clearly asleep.

00:51:56.000 --> 00:52:05.000
And it's almost as if they're saying Joseph has no part in this. And they might be saying theologically Joseph has no party.

00:52:05.000 --> 00:52:15.000
This is just between Mary and God. You know, Joe Joseph, that there's one, there's one painting that I know that in Cambridge, I can't remember the artist.

00:52:15.000 --> 00:52:22.000
In which Joseph is holding the baby. And I've never seen another painting which Joseph holds a baby.

00:52:22.000 --> 00:52:27.000
Which is really quite sweet. But in a lot of, lot of those Renaissance paintings, he's asleep.

00:52:27.000 --> 00:52:30.000
So I go with him being asleep in the Botticelli.

00:52:30.000 --> 00:52:32.000
Okay. Okay.

00:52:32.000 --> 00:52:38.000
As I said, you had a tough night, hasn't he? The man finds it really hard work.

00:52:38.000 --> 00:52:40.000

00:52:40.000 --> 00:52:47.000
Okay, we've got another question from Carol. We've obviously looked at a lot of symbols within paintings.

00:52:47.000 --> 00:52:54.000
She's asking and are there also symbols on artifacts? She's thinking about things like pottery and frescoes.

00:52:54.000 --> 00:53:04.000
Yeah. Very much so. And, and I mean, you can find those sorts of, I mean, I've concentrate on paintings today, obviously.

00:53:04.000 --> 00:53:05.000

00:53:05.000 --> 00:53:14.000
But you can find equal symbolism really in textiles for example. And textiles will a major medieval art form.

00:53:14.000 --> 00:53:20.000
Although they fell out to fill out of popularity. So, so in tapestries.

00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:29.000
Investments. You can find them certainly on pottery. If you look at some pottery by Picasso, for example, and pick up Picasso was a very able potter.

00:53:29.000 --> 00:53:39.000
Was a painter. Lots of them are covered with symbols. I love those symbols. Are borrowed from African art because Picasso was a collector of African art.

00:53:39.000 --> 00:53:47.000
I would say yeah it's on pottery as well it's on tapestries lot in stained glass windows.

00:53:47.000 --> 00:53:51.000
So any art form really is is dripping with symbolism.

00:53:51.000 --> 00:54:01.000
Hmm. Now, actually this is probably more of a comment than a question, but I thought I would put this one too because it's quite interesting.

00:54:01.000 --> 00:54:12.000
It's reminder call. I hope you don't mind. I hope you don't mind Andrew.

00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:13.000

00:54:13.000 --> 00:54:16.000
And he's saying Resumably, symbols and arts become more difficult to read with the passing of time because we're longer soaked in the culture from which they emerge.

00:54:16.000 --> 00:54:17.000

00:54:17.000 --> 00:54:22.000
Conversely, there are no doubt symbols in modern art that we just take for granted because we're part of that culture.

00:54:22.000 --> 00:54:30.000
Yep, absolutely right, I think, Andrew. I mean, you know, look at some of those very old pieces of art I put up.

00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:34.000
For example, Australian cave art.

00:54:34.000 --> 00:54:43.000
There's there's a bit of a possibility of reading the Australian stuff because aboriginal people still talk about what that art is.

00:54:43.000 --> 00:54:49.000
So there's some sort of moral tradition. But the lion man, there's no way we know what that was about.

00:54:49.000 --> 00:54:57.000
So you need, you need an interpretative text or an interpretative tradition. Within which to interpret the art.

00:54:57.000 --> 00:55:06.000
The further away you get from that. Either culturally or in time. The harder it becomes to interpret.

00:55:06.000 --> 00:55:16.000
And I think we're now in a situation in much of Western Europe. In which much of the renaissance art doesn't really make much sense to us in terms of symbolism.

00:55:16.000 --> 00:55:28.000
We just haven't got the the language with which to read it really and yeah I mean modern or if you look at If you look at modern art meaning, twentieth and 20 first century art.

00:55:28.000 --> 00:55:37.000
That's also full of symbolism. Dripping with it. But we I mean, I sometimes say a symbol is like a joke.

00:55:37.000 --> 00:55:46.000
So if I tell you a joke, Fiona. And you don't laugh. I then explained the joke to you tediously.

00:55:46.000 --> 00:55:55.000
And a joke that explained is not funny. Is it? You know, and a symbol that has to be explained.

00:55:55.000 --> 00:56:08.000
Doesn't quite work as a symbol. In other words, the symbol ought to work. Without me saying this means so and so and so and so, you ought to see it and take it all in subconsciously.

00:56:08.000 --> 00:56:14.000
As you do, you know, maybe when you watch Hamlet or something. But yeah, I mean, I think that there is.

00:56:14.000 --> 00:56:20.000
There's a real issue when we go to somebody like the National Gallery of trying to read the paintings.

00:56:20.000 --> 00:56:24.000
Because mostly we don't have the equipment with which to read them.

00:56:24.000 --> 00:56:25.000
Hmm. Okay, very interesting. Okay, we've got a question from Stuart.

00:56:25.000 --> 00:56:37.000
Now, if you forgive me, I'm not entirely sure if this is in relation to one of the specific paintings we looked at but He's asking.

00:56:37.000 --> 00:56:47.000
And so are the chalk cliffs to do with the enormity of time? I wonder if that's the Dally.

00:56:47.000 --> 00:56:48.000

00:56:48.000 --> 00:56:51.000
That's in that last Dolly, isn't it? Yes, I like that.

00:56:51.000 --> 00:57:02.000
You're good with that. Yeah. I mean, I, When I've looked at that page, I've sort of, on, you know, the white cliffs of Dover.

00:57:02.000 --> 00:57:11.000
Is it about the edge of the land and the sea or whatever but I like I like the time thing if you if the painting is is mostly about time which it clearly is.

00:57:11.000 --> 00:57:20.000
He's perhaps saying something about the permanence of the earth and the cliffs. That you know we sort of overwhelmed by it or whatever yeah I'd buy that.

00:57:20.000 --> 00:57:36.000
Hmm. Okay, this is from Karen and Andrew. Do some artists have symbols that they use in different paintings almost like a signature symbol.

00:57:36.000 --> 00:57:49.000
Yeah. A good example is, anonymous boss who we're looking at. In almost every Bosch painting you see there's Owl.

00:57:49.000 --> 00:57:55.000
Sometimes a tiny owl in the corner. Sometimes quite a significant owl.

00:57:55.000 --> 00:58:06.000
And if I ask you what the owl symbolizes Fiona, what do you think the owl symbolizes?

00:58:06.000 --> 00:58:08.000
I don't know, a wise person. Let's see.

00:58:08.000 --> 00:58:12.000
That's what we, that's what most of us would say, would say, symbolizes wisdom.

00:58:12.000 --> 00:58:13.000

00:58:13.000 --> 00:58:18.000
Cause we've read many of the poo, haven't we? And it's, you know, the wise old ours in Winnie in the Pooh.

00:58:18.000 --> 00:58:25.000
For Hieronymus Bosch. The owl symbolizes. A brooding evil presence.

00:58:25.000 --> 00:58:26.000

00:58:26.000 --> 00:58:33.000
Because for Bosh the owl is a creature of the knights. Is a creature of the dark.

00:58:33.000 --> 00:58:39.000
And always for Bosch there's there's evil even if not on the surface this painting just underneath.

00:58:39.000 --> 00:58:44.000
There's something disturbing underneath. And so the owl becomes for him a signature which is also a symbol or symbol which also a signature.

00:58:44.000 --> 00:58:58.000
And there are other examples. I mean there's a there's a stained glass maker. In that the end of the nineteenth century in England.

00:58:58.000 --> 00:59:05.000
I can't remember his name that'll come back while I'm talking and that, maker and his firm.

00:59:05.000 --> 00:59:12.000
In every bit of stained glass by them. There is a little wheat sheaf. Just a little, little thing of corn.

00:59:12.000 --> 00:59:17.000
And if you're going round to church and you look at stained glass, you see a little wheat chief, you know that it is by.

00:59:17.000 --> 00:59:20.000
Got to remember his name. Yep, yep.

00:59:20.000 --> 00:59:30.000
That's one for Google. Okay. Right. No, I have another question from Martin.

00:59:30.000 --> 00:59:31.000

00:59:31.000 --> 00:59:40.000
Now this is. This is a very interesting one. Some symbols. Swastika, for example, have changed the meaning.

00:59:40.000 --> 00:59:43.000
Can they ever be redeemed?

00:59:43.000 --> 00:59:44.000
It's quite a big question.

00:59:44.000 --> 00:59:52.000
Bye. The swastika originally. Was an Indian symbol of peace and harmony.

00:59:52.000 --> 01:00:00.000
And interestingly, there is. In the Vatican Museum in Rome. There's, a nativity.

01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:08.000
And tippity on on a tombstone. Says the baby Jesus on a tombstone with the ox and the ass so we know tenativity.

01:00:08.000 --> 01:00:14.000
And all along the top There's a seas of swastikas.

01:00:14.000 --> 01:00:22.000
Obviously borrowed from India. How he got into a Roman child's probably tombstone.

01:00:22.000 --> 01:00:28.000
Goodness knows. But there it's clearly still symbolizing. Peace and harmony.

01:00:28.000 --> 01:00:39.000
The Nazis. Not only took the symbol over. But changed it and devalued it, didn't they?

01:00:39.000 --> 01:00:47.000
And I doubt whether Anyone could now use the swastika. As a symbol of peace and harmony.

01:00:47.000 --> 01:00:58.000
And indeed if I were to, you know, where a swastika on my t-shirt and going walk down the high street, it would probably provoke some pretty bad reactions.

01:00:58.000 --> 01:01:12.000
So, yes, symbols do change their meaning. And in that sort of extreme case. Doubt whether the original meaning can be redeemed really.

01:01:12.000 --> 01:01:13.000

01:01:13.000 --> 01:01:21.000
Yeah. Okay, right, got a question here from Mike. And we are going to run on very slightly folks.

01:01:21.000 --> 01:01:25.000
I'm going to give it another couple of minutes just to see if we can get through some more questions.

01:01:25.000 --> 01:01:35.000
This is from Mike. What do the symbols on your cello's dragon convey?

01:01:35.000 --> 01:01:36.000

01:01:36.000 --> 01:01:42.000
But in the painting. I think, I think the storm. He's obviously conveying.

01:01:42.000 --> 01:01:54.000
The darkness and the evil and the scariness of the scene. I think the the rising sun behind the hills is conveying a new dawn.

01:01:54.000 --> 01:02:06.000
And that new dawn is being brought about by St. George killing the dragon. The the dragon is a symbol of that which holds human beings.

01:02:06.000 --> 01:02:16.000
In in in a sort of prison really. You know, we're held in prison to evil for the medieval.

01:02:16.000 --> 01:02:26.000
Be held in some sort of some sort of contract with evil. So along comes George. The poor princess is a symbol of humanity.

01:02:26.000 --> 01:02:38.000
So long comes George kills the dragon in the storm. With. With the mountain showing dawn behind them and sits the girl free.

01:02:38.000 --> 01:02:47.000
And so the symbolism is primarily about setting the maiden princess. Equals humanity. Free from the bonds of evil which hold us.

01:02:47.000 --> 01:03:07.000
And behind the dragon notes is in that you cello is the almost black mouth of the cave. And that's symbolizing the the really scary bit that's it with something something even more scary than the dragon is in that cave and we don't know what it is.

01:03:07.000 --> 01:03:13.000
Hmm. Okay. Right, one more question and then I think we'll need to wrap up folks.

01:03:13.000 --> 01:03:21.000
I will be looking at the chat later. So if I have missed anything, and David, I'll get them sent on to you so you can have a little look at them.

01:03:21.000 --> 01:03:38.000
But, this is from Judas. And which current artists use symbolism and one of our other members, Miranda, has has mentioned Banksy which is one which spring to my mind.

01:03:38.000 --> 01:03:39.000

01:03:39.000 --> 01:03:44.000
Yep. Yeah, and Banks is a really good example. And you may have seen some of the art which Banksy has done.

01:03:44.000 --> 01:03:56.000
In Israel. Banksy has made at least 2 trips to Israel. And in Bethlehem, for example, there's, the, the 2 or 3 Banksy pieces.

01:03:56.000 --> 01:04:02.000
One of which is a dove of peace wearing a flak jacket.

01:04:02.000 --> 01:04:09.000
You know, you don't need to explain that, do you? Another one is too little angels.

01:04:09.000 --> 01:04:19.000
Pulling apart. The wall between the Israeli and the Palestinian bits of Bethlehem. So, Banksy uses it very cleverly and very simply.

01:04:19.000 --> 01:04:35.000
And he's brilliant. I mean, other other examples. Certainly certainly Gormley uses symbolism.

01:04:35.000 --> 01:04:36.000

01:04:36.000 --> 01:04:39.000
I mean the Angel of the North is a very powerful symbol really. And when they angel the north was first put in.

01:04:39.000 --> 01:04:46.000
I think a lot of people thought I don't know about that really but people love it now and it's become a really important symbol of the North, hasn't it?

01:04:46.000 --> 01:04:52.000
When you go past it driving up the A one M one. You sort of think, wow, I've arrived, you know, really important.

01:04:52.000 --> 01:04:54.000
You would see it from the train, you know, when you're passing through.

01:04:54.000 --> 01:04:59.000
We, and, look, if you're on a train with me, everybody looks for it, don't they?

01:04:59.000 --> 01:05:01.000

01:05:01.000 --> 01:05:05.000
It's really interesting. So yes, I mean, it's still loads of symbolism around.

01:05:05.000 --> 01:05:07.000

01:05:07.000 --> 01:05:14.000
Okay, right folks, I think we're going to have to wrap up the roast at 10 past 6.

01:05:14.000 --> 01:05:15.000
Thank you.

01:05:15.000 --> 01:05:24.000
And David, that was fabulous. Fascinating, thought-provoking, fascinating, thought-provoking and I think we've probably all come away with a little bit of extra knowledge for the next time we visit an art gallery.

01:05:24.000 --> 01:05:29.000
And one thing I would say is actually in the summer we had the Banksy exhibition in Glasgow and which ran through summer and I went and it's one of the best things I've ever seen.

01:05:29.000 --> 01:05:35.000
Oh, for the local. After seeing that, fantastic.

01:05:35.000 --> 01:05:43.000
And it gives you, he tells you, he, I think is he, he tells you how he actually does.

01:05:43.000 --> 01:05:44.000
Oh, wonderful. I'd love to.

01:05:44.000 --> 01:05:53.000
Thanks. So anyway, and thanks so much for that. I hope everybody really, really enjoyed that. And, yeah.

01:05:53.000 --> 01:05:58.000
Thank you.

4 hands holding an image of a human head with jigsaw inside
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Lecture 165 - Psychology: who do you think you are?

Most people wonder what makes people ‘tick’ and how we come to be ‘ourselves’ and folk and popular psychology has offered many explanations and ideas to provide the answer.

In this talk with WEA tutor Jill Arnold, we hope to dispel many myths and introduce ideas from recent psychology and brain-science that provide alternative and much more interesting ways to understand how we come to be and know ourselves. We’ll consider how our identity is more than a matter of the forces of Nature or Nurture and how a ‘sense of self’ develops in each of us as we grow up in particular times, places and circumstances and hope to come away with an enhanced understanding of ourselves and others around us.


Lecture 164 - The Ethels: the ‘Munros’ of the Peak District

As the Peak District National Park celebrated its 70th birthday in 2021, 95 of its significant high points were designated as ‘Ethels’ in recognition of the vital work undertaken by Ethel Haythornthwaite in preserving the landscape and helping to establish the National Park as Britain’s first.

In this talk, WEA tutor Alastair Clark takes us on a pictorial journey around these hill tops and shares the highs and lows of his own quest to clock-up all 95 Ethels, and along the way we'll hear a little of the history of the National Park and the woman to helped establish it.

Download useful links for further reading and forthcoming courses by the speaker here

Video transcript

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Well, thank you very much, Fiona. Yes, I think you've introduced me in a nutshell.

00:00:11.000 --> 00:00:18.000
Let me say that I was speaking to you from Worksworth in Derbyshire one mile from the boundary of the Peak National Park and I'm going to be talking about that particular national park.

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And in addition to the career background that Fiona's mentioned, I do quite on a walk leading and I'm just back from a two-week stint in Portugal leading walks for an organization called HF Holidays.

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So walking in the outdoors is very much in my blood. Right, I we have a title today which is the ethos, the monroes of the pig district.

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Now, it seems a bit of an audacious title, I know, and I'll go on to talk about how we got to that.

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I am thinking back to August that the, 30 first to 2,021.

00:01:09.000 --> 00:01:12.000
I don't know if you can remember what you were doing then, but I can remember where I was.

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It was a momentous day from me. I was here. On this rocky hilltop.

00:01:23.000 --> 00:01:43.000
The stones are a kind of, a sad stone that we call Millstone grit in this part of the world and I'm standing next to the trick point and the trick point is the first of the hills called ethyls that with a group of friends we set out to climb.

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This was the first one that we climbed and it's called West Nap but it's exactly 500 meters above sea level which is very very convenient.

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We knew that just taking a picture of a standing at the top wouldn't mean much to people because the top of a lot of these hills looked like the top of a lot more of them.

00:02:04.000 --> 00:02:16.000
So we actually decided we come along with a piece of paper saying where we were. And this is an outline of the Peak District National Park.

00:02:16.000 --> 00:02:45.000
And you could see from the circle at the top. That we were right at the most northerly extreme of the peak national park and the place we were at oh let's just have a look at this here we have the map of the national parks in England, Scotland and Wales and you can see that we're kind of towards the middle of the country and There's that funny sort of shape with with a bit of

00:02:45.000 --> 00:02:55.000
a bite taken out of it and I'll say something more about the the bite taken out. So, we were at this place called West Nab and just to put it in its context, you'll have heard home first last of the summer wine territory.

00:02:55.000 --> 00:03:13.000
And so we were just to the west of here, and, on West Nap, there we are, 500, now just in case anybody is ever thinking of going there, here's a little bit of advice.

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On the map it shows this orange line which is called the concessionary footpath, taking you all the way to the top.

00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:31.000
Well, don't bother. When we got there, we discovered it's no longer there. And we had to go up by a different route which was this one showed by the by the green line.

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I guess, this was, a foretaste of things to come. When we arrived at climbing these hills, they, they weren't always quite what we expected.

00:03:41.000 --> 00:03:56.000
But that's West Nab, most northerly in the Peak District. And, I was with my friend, Andy who's to the right and my wife, Suzanne, who's to the left and you can see they're holding up the first Ethel sign.

00:03:56.000 --> 00:04:01.000
That wasn't enough. We were still on the 30 first of August, 2 years ago, and we were on the Pennine way.

00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:10.000
And we knew we could actually clock up a few more. So we set off a little bit south along the Pennine way, beautiful walk.

00:04:10.000 --> 00:04:18.000
You see the heather without and we crossed over that little stream at the bottom. The brown is not because it's polluted it's the it's it's because of the peat that the water flows through.

00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:26.000
So crossing the gurgling stream. Can even see the the brown color in that moving water there can't you?

00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:48.000
And we got to this rather wobbly trick point. Some of you might have been to my earlier talk about trick points and you could see this one is definitely looking a bit drunken but it's been reurrected on on there and There we are.

00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:53.000
We're standing next to it and we've got another of our little signs telling us that we're a place called Black Hill.

00:04:53.000 --> 00:05:02.000
Little bit higher actually. How it happens. But an obvious peak. There it is on the map with all the footpaths arriving at the Black Hill.

00:05:02.000 --> 00:05:11.000
We carried on a little bit further and we got to this place. My goodness. There's no, there's no pile of rocks.

00:05:11.000 --> 00:05:20.000
There's no trick point. It's just A kind of grassy hill. But it was indeed, another of the ethos.

00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:30.000
It was a high point and it was called white low 530 meters. Now there it is on the map and I have to say it's that one of the least prominent of the hills but it's quite high.

00:05:30.000 --> 00:06:00.000
Though we were rather delighted we set off back as we came past this little Bluff or or or Valley on the way back to the car and then we saw These fellas here with, can you see they've got White things with them, this particular one, see this guy's got a, a white, they're actually large, fertilizer bags and to our surprise, we haven't come across

00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:05.000
these these actually before and more these were beaters and they were brightening the grouse deliberately to put them into the air.

00:06:05.000 --> 00:06:35.000
So there was grouse shooting going on, not our favorite sport I have to say. Anyway, we moved on from there and may now weigh back to the signpost for the Pennine way and the one of the jobs that the National Park takes on really is is the management of fairly demanding use of the area and we rather like this sign.

00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:50.000
Be nice, say hi. Horse riders, walkers, cyclists because there are there are piles that, cyclists and all ciders are allowed to use and just, just actually saying hello to people as you go past really can.

00:06:50.000 --> 00:07:01.000
Just, make things, reduce the tensions that they sometimes are. And this was asking for a photograph framing the landscape.

00:07:01.000 --> 00:07:13.000
So, my 2 colleagues here are standing in the the frame for the picture. And we had downloaded an app.

00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:37.000
From the website of the countryside charity the CPR and we were able to clock up on day one that we done 3 of the nut of 95 ethos And, this is what it looks like on the app with like clutters of, of all of the hills on here and the first 3 that we've done were at the top.

00:07:37.000 --> 00:07:40.000
Oh, I now, black kill and white low. So what's this all about? You might ask, well, it's about this lady here.

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Ethel Haythorne's weight. Those were her dates, 1,894 to 1986.

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She was very involved in the, in the work to, have a special areas in Britain designated as national parks.

00:08:00.000 --> 00:08:30.000
You might know that actually, the notion of national parks is really first promoted by a Scotsman called John Muir who went over to live in the States and there the national park became nationally owned lands that's not the case in in Britain the lands remains in public ownership but it has it has particular restrictions on development so that the landscape of particularly high value can be preserved both

00:08:43.000 --> 00:09:02.000
for its own value and also for recreation. And here's the map and I kind of just pointed out earlier there's a sort of chunk of land around Buxton and Dove holes which is excluded from the National Park because there's a lot of extractive industries in there.

00:09:02.000 --> 00:09:09.000
So This actually defining where the limit should be was one of the tasks that Ethel took on board.

00:09:09.000 --> 00:09:21.000
That our journey today will find out a bit about the peak. Find out about the ethos and a little bit about my quest because I think there's some stories there.

00:09:21.000 --> 00:09:51.000
Let's just talk a little bit about geology. The peak district which is as you've seen from the map before is right in the middle of what of England really and is in simple terms a dome with different blales layers of rock notably the whiter limestone which is overlaid by some shale which is a kind of weak version of slate really and sandstone on the top which we call millstone

00:09:54.000 --> 00:10:04.000
grip is used to making millstones and that's the way it is. Up by high Neb, where I've already shown you the photographs.

00:10:04.000 --> 00:10:24.000
But in the southern part of the Peak District, closer to where I live in fact the the top player has been eroded away and we actually expose the limestone with the which is much much lighter in color with the which is much much lighter in color with the which is much much lighter in color with the darker grit stone which is much much lighter in color with the darker grit stone being

00:10:24.000 --> 00:10:45.000
just visible in color with the darker grit stone being just visible at the edges This means that we have 2 parts to the peak district and is recognized by the the ordnance survey so they have 2 maps they have the dark peak which is the northern higher section and the white pick peak which is the the more southerly and limestone section.

00:10:45.000 --> 00:11:01.000
And though those 2 parts of the of the Peak District have their own distinctive landscapes and distinctive flora and fauna.

00:11:01.000 --> 00:11:07.000
This is a very distinctive limestone hill. It's actually an old reef. It's called Thorpe Cloud.

00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:10.000
It's right at the entrance to a very famous valley called Dove Dale. It's not particularly high.

00:11:10.000 --> 00:11:17.000
Only 287 meters. But very, very distinctive. And so this has been included as one of the ethos.

00:11:17.000 --> 00:11:31.000
Definitely peaky, definitely pointy, seems like it's right for somewhere called the Peak District, doesn't it?

00:11:31.000 --> 00:11:39.000
Let's have a look at these ethyls. Here we are further north. And, we've got one Ethel over here called Ashway Moss.

00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:46.000
One called Featherbed Moss and one just underneath here called Alphin Pike. Much higher.

00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:53.000
541 meters and a little bit less but bubbling around 500 meters. But look rather different don't they?

00:11:53.000 --> 00:12:05.000
So I do wonder Did they make a mistake when they gave the name to this place? Should it really have been this?

00:12:05.000 --> 00:12:14.000
Because in actual fact an awful lot of the landscape is high. But not necessarily peaky and pointy.

00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:22.000
Well, the true story behind this is that in fact the name comes from this word, Peck Satan.

00:12:22.000 --> 00:12:43.000
Now the Peck Satan's were a group of Anglo-saxons who colonized the area in the in the dark ages and they gave their name to the area where they lived so that the main peak actually comes from the Pexatans not from pointy bits.

00:12:43.000 --> 00:12:50.000
Although there are some pointy bits but they're not all. Well before it was a national park.

00:12:50.000 --> 00:13:02.000
People thought that the peek was a great place to visit and this book was written, in the seventeenth century, by, Thomas Hobbes.

00:13:02.000 --> 00:13:19.000
Famous philosopher and he he lived in the area and this book actually appears in a glass case at the Buxton Museum and I've been in several times and every time I say to them, Is there any chance you could turn the page so we can see what it says?

00:13:19.000 --> 00:13:41.000
I'm sure it will be possible but the curators not here this week come back another week. So I've not been able to look at the following pages but understand it's basically a poem and it's written in English and Latin The Latin is written by Thomas Hobbes of Malmsbury, but the English is by a person of quality.

00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:51.000
And can you just have a careful look now at the name given to this by the person of quality when they gave it the name in English.

00:13:51.000 --> 00:14:07.000
I always think that's quite funny remembering that these funny things are so, what we're really saying here is that this has been by many people regarded as a very special place for a long time.

00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:21.000
And this book is called The Wonders of the Peak. But not everybody took that view. Daniel Defoe visited and he had to say it's the most desolate wild and abandoned country in all England.

00:14:21.000 --> 00:14:27.000
Well, good luck, Daniel. Off you go, mate. And will those of us who enjoy it will stay here.

00:14:27.000 --> 00:14:33.000
Having access to this countryside, I wish most people actually appreciated, has been an ongoing issue.

00:14:33.000 --> 00:15:03.000
A lot of the lands in private ownership, many of the malls as you've seen are used for for grouse shooting and we had a whole series of basically legal actions and campaigns to to maximize well that affected our access so first of all the the enclosure acts which went on for a Really?

00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:29.000
More than 200 years. Feds off half of the countryside. By the late nineteenth century there was a real interest in the outdoors and outdoor clubs were beginning to campaign for football and for access.

00:15:29.000 --> 00:15:33.000
To the wild moorland. And, parallel with that, we have the first national park established in the U.S.A. in 1870.

00:15:33.000 --> 00:15:59.000
And as early as 1,884 there was an attempt to introduce an access to the mountains bill in great Britain and it failed and again in 1,908 and in 1,926 so the long history of trying to give people what we now call the right to Rome.

00:15:59.000 --> 00:16:11.000
So, 1926 interesting year, it was then called the council for the preservation of rural England was formed and Ethel Hathon's weight was very involved in that establishment.

00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:25.000
And about that time. The Sheffield, and Ramblers held a famous mass trespass in the winners pass which is not far from Castleton.

00:16:25.000 --> 00:16:39.000
And Then, these characters, emerged. You may very well have heard of the Kinder mass trespass in 1,932.

00:16:39.000 --> 00:17:09.000
And these pictures are actually taken from the National Park information center in a place called Dale and Benny Rossman is credited as having been the leader of the the group who decided that they would defy the gamekeepers and they would walk onto the moors and they they came from Manchester that was a similar group coming from Sheffield and the plan was to meet on the top.

00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:20.000
So there's a lot of, publicity, a lot of air time, if you like, given to Benny Rothman and that mass trespass.

00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:34.000
And it'll often get some mentioned in the in the press and certainly it was a very important his rucksack you see is even on display.

00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:40.000
I think some people would say what actually. Iided their cause was the very high and unreasonable sentences that they were given.

00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:58.000
They were actually given imprisonment for the for the trespass that they did. And I think now actually had the effect of raising public sympathy for them.

00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:12.000
However, there are historians who feel that this is a little bit overblown. That, oh, there's a picture of the trespasses setting out from Hayfield.

00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:19.000
And here's a historian David Hay who's written the history of the peak district Moores.

00:18:19.000 --> 00:18:48.000
And, this is what he has to say about it. That many of the existing organizations were angry that these young Manchester communists How does they saw it ruined their lobbying work by coming in and it's certainly the case that after Benny Rothman and his friends actually came out of prison, which it was it was a several I think was several weeks in prison but they didn't actually return particularly

00:18:48.000 --> 00:19:00.000
to the countryside access. campaign but called involved in other campaigns. Meantime, however, this is what David Hay has to say.

00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:09.000
That in the thirtys Ethel and Gerald Paith of the Pathon Sweet led the campaign for the designation of national parks in Britain.

00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:18.000
So with rather less razzmatazz, less publicity, SL in particular. Was working very hard.

00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:27.000
In the campaign to argue for designation of national parks. And Gerald was her second husband.

00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:34.000
If you remember, she'd actually lost her first husband in the First World War.

00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:58.000
So she lost her husband in the First World War. Her. Way of dealing with this lost really was to she came from Sheffield so she actually spent a lot of time walking in the landscape and it helped her grief and had a profound effect on her and that really inspired her.

00:19:58.000 --> 00:20:10.000
To work for countryside access for everybody and and here is Ethel Haystorm Sweet speaking at one of those rallies in the women's past.

00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:17.000
She was very involved in setting up what the predecessor of what we now call the CPR, the campaign section of rural England.

00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:29.000
The Peak District and Yorkshire branch and that was her starting point and she had this important role in helping to define the peak park boundary.

00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:41.000
We are expecting a full, a biography to be published of, of Ethel's life next year.

00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:49.000
And actually I'm really looking forward to that because up to now there's only so much information that's available.

00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:54.000
How this plaque was, unveiled, a couple of years ago now.

00:20:54.000 --> 00:21:03.000
It was the. The site of the house she was born in which is now on the campus of the University of Sheffield.

00:21:03.000 --> 00:21:06.000
So it's actually in the grounds of the University of Sheffield is the location where she was where she was born.

00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:21.000
So she's beginning to get, rather more recognition. This National Trust property near to Sheffield called Longshore.

00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:32.000
That was her first great project was to raise the money to buy this so that it wouldn't be developed and as soon as they bought it they gave it straight to the National Trust.

00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:51.000
The, National Parks of Britain, were launched by this Act of Parliament, the Act of Parliament in 1,949 and I have a little personal story which is that my parents were both keen walkers and my dad took my mum on a date.

00:21:51.000 --> 00:22:03.000
To And that date was to the Strangers Gallery in the House of Commons in 1,949 to see the passing of this bill to becoming an act Parliament.

00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:10.000
Now I'm delighted to tell you that had some more romantic dates after that otherwise I probably wouldn't be here.

00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:18.000
But we My dad remembered. That, on that, the list of national parks, at that time was the South Downs and it was very long long time before the South Downs was finally designated.

00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:42.000
So in his in his eightys and his ninetys he continued being a campaigner. And was delighted that the national part of the South Downs were designated as a park before he died at the age of 103 so he was I was happy.

00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:51.000
But the first one of all of the national parks to be designated was the peak. And here's a group of the early, they were called wardens rather than ranges.

00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:52.000
We call them rangers now, but setting off, you can just imagine that they were all told to pose, weren't they?

00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:59.000
This guy at the front was told to point up to the hill that everybody was told to look up there and look interested.

00:22:59.000 --> 00:23:22.000
But import important and a bit of a pioneer. So, 1951 the peak park and the countryside rights and way act which gave us the ultimate right to Rome that we now enjoy that was actually only passed in 2,000.

00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:28.000
So And there's the famous Check funny shape at the peak part I've shown you before.

00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:35.000
Okay, so I want to talk to you a little bit about how we we came to the title that Fiona dreamt up for today which I think is very good and appropriate.

00:23:35.000 --> 00:24:03.000
First of all there are groups of hills in Scotland named the Monroe's and there are 282 of them and they are defined as having a height of over 3,000 feet and you may know people I said you know people who are going round and climbing them all and ticking them off.

00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:11.000
So in the late district there's something quite similar. The Wainwright's named after Alfred Wayne Wright, 214 of these and they all lie within the Lake District National Park.

00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:34.000
You may have heard of Marilyn's, they're not necessarily so high, but they they're hills that have to have prominence they they can't be plateaus they have to be a bit a bit peaky and pointy and there's also something called the tump so there's there's quite a few sort of defined kind of hills that are around.

00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:44.000
But what about the Ethels? Well, here's me standing by a waterfall on one of the ethos near a place called the cat a pub called the cat and fiddle which some people might know.

00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:54.000
Very high. And, it inspired really by something that happened during Locke down.

00:24:54.000 --> 00:25:11.000
A lockdown light bulb moment from this fellow here. He said it crossed my mind. That it would be a good idea to have something like the Wayne rights of the Lake District and the Monroe's of Scotland.

00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:31.000
And the same day he settled on calling them the Ethels to raise the public profile of the countryside access the of the hate Ethel Hayson's weight had worked so hard and she was the driving force but between behind the Uk's first national park.

00:25:31.000 --> 00:25:37.000
And he this guy is called Rob Colton. I've never actually met him but I have found this photograph of him that we are standing up there.

00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:45.000
So it was it was his. Project really during lockdown and the result was that he launched the idea of this as being a challenge which would be easier.

00:25:45.000 --> 00:26:02.000
And less remote than the Monroe's and the Wainwrights. To encourage people to be more active for their physical and mental well-being.

00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:12.000
And to encourage visitors to explore less well-known parts of the National Park being good for local business and take the strain away from hot spots.

00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:23.000
Spaces like the Hope Valley and Topdale. And to encourage residents of the Peak Park to stay local and to lessen their car journeys to the lakes and Snatonia.

00:26:23.000 --> 00:26:28.000
So, he created this wonderful app. There's a bit of a joke in the name of the website.

00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:41.000
Because it's called Ethel Ready. Rather taking the, the name of Ethel Red the unready, the medieval king of England.

00:26:41.000 --> 00:27:01.000
But, You could download the this and click off the ethos that you've climbed and you see this one somebody has done 22% that's 21 of the 95 And here's somebody who's, clicking up, an Ethel while she's having something to drink.

00:27:01.000 --> 00:27:11.000
Nice cup of coffee. Welcome all the ethos. Well, there's something called the sixes, they're 4 hills, over 600 meters, they're quite famous well-known.

00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:21.000
Can the scout people will have heard of bleak clo Hiire shell stones of grin low Then there's a 27 over 500 meters.

00:27:21.000 --> 00:27:31.000
And then I love this, the sub 5 as they're called. 37 over 427 prominent hills under 400 metres.

00:27:31.000 --> 00:27:39.000
But with character, I like that. I like the notion of hills with character. And we'll see some of these characters.

00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:47.000
The whole project was Rob's idea, but it was promoted by the, the countryside charity.

00:27:47.000 --> 00:27:59.000
What's that called the CPRE and they, they've embraced it and the people who, who download the, the apps free, but you're encouraged to put a donation.

00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:07.000
I just thought I take you briefly around some of these. We've seen the most, one that's where the I got sucked into this quest.

00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:13.000
Let me take you to the most southerly one, right? Down here at the bottom. It's called Must and Low.

00:28:13.000 --> 00:28:18.000
And, there's my mate Andy being blown around the bit with a sign.

00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:33.000
Let's go to the most easterly one. This I have to admit is a bit problematic and I am slightly aware about going public about this but in the interests of complete honesty I want to tell you about this.

00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:36.000
Here we are. This is what it looks like. It was the highest point on this bit of plateau, but it was really quite difficult to find.

00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:47.000
And we actually, if you look very, this, this is the symbol for a trick point, a triangulation point.

00:28:47.000 --> 00:28:56.000
And that's at 367 meters and the actual top is through some very very thick heather.

00:28:56.000 --> 00:29:03.000
At 371 so it's only 4 metres higher So, this is what we did.

00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:11.000
We client on the trick point and got our hands up to we reckon we were, we, reached the height.

00:29:11.000 --> 00:29:16.000
And we work gonna go through all that Heather and get lot there was nothing to see at the top.

00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:43.000
So, call us cheats if you like. Let's look at the most westerly one which is on the boundary with Cheshire and this was got it's actually just called the cloud cloud comes from an Anglo-saxon word clutch meaning a hill so yeah but and this is quite we've never been there before and I think that's one of the things we we found was really nice.

00:29:43.000 --> 00:29:52.000
We we know the area quite well in the places we go to quite often, but this actually took us to places we wouldn't we had not otherwise visited.

00:29:52.000 --> 00:30:00.000
So there we are. We actually started by doing the extremities the most northerly, southerly, easterly and western one and they're filled in the gaps really.

00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:08.000
I'm not going to take you through all the other night. 90, don't worry. But just to give, if we, we kind of teamed up with other friends.

00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:17.000
This is somebody called Sally who did this one with me. Many people will have heard of Stan Age, so I thought I'd put a few pictures of that in.

00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:26.000
This is very close to Sheffield, famous climbing area. And I just thought this was one of the most gorgeous days actually as I set off.

00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:43.000
You can see the temperature inversion where the clouds are in the valleys. There and again this is called Millstone grit and guess what some of the stone had been quarried to turn into millstones and they'd never actually bothered to take them away.

00:30:43.000 --> 00:30:52.000
So you come across these. And then this trick point that's actually firmly fixed on the top of a piece of rock.

00:30:52.000 --> 00:31:13.000
It's on, it's, it's really on. Standard judge but the particular high point is called white path moss and it's one which really is quite a flat area but there's this this pole Standage pole and it's I mean it's been reelected recently but it was always a poll there.

00:31:13.000 --> 00:31:21.000
It's on a route that was used by pack horses, but also, it was a marker for shepherds and other people up there in the, a marker for shepherds and other people up there in the poor, visibility.

00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:30.000
This is an old causeway that goes just right past Spanish pole, which I think is quite interesting.

00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:52.000
This is definitely medieval originally with these slabs just to take wheel transport. And then at the far end of Stan Age, the 3 of them along this long piece of, grit stone edge, we have this, hill that's called, we get these kind of, this is definitely Definitely the sandstone, the grit stone.

00:31:52.000 --> 00:32:14.000
Type of landscape here. First of December, 2,022 this time last year and here's the valley of Edale some people might have been there and absolutely full of a temperature inversion.

00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:18.000
Quite wonderful. And, a place called Lord Seat, but it's, it's near somewhere called MAM T that you may have heard of.

00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:31.000
And the temperature inversion just went on and on. And there's my wife at Lord's seat, absolutely full of cotton wool.

00:32:31.000 --> 00:32:34.000
And taking pictures just went on and on and then I thought I'd just show you exactly the same value.

00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:53.000
Another day with this is where the camera was top right hand corner and looking down into the valley of detail quite a well-known spot and in fact this is the beginning of the Pennine way the Pennine way starts from this valley.

00:32:53.000 --> 00:33:03.000
Okay, just, just a few quirky hills. This one has got a really strange name of Sir William Hill and guess what?

00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:24.000
It's got its own pub called the Sir William Hotel. As my daughter with us there and there's even a Sir William Hill road and nobody knows who Sir William was and there's all sorts of theories but they don't really know who the Sir William was who got a hill named after him.

00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:33.000
And then his another hill, closer to Glossop really called lantern pike. Why am I showing you this one as well?

00:33:33.000 --> 00:33:39.000
Because it's the other one that's got its own pub. There's a pub called Glanton Pipe just opposite.

00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:45.000
This was actually a course that I, it was now the Ed course on Ethel.

00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:57.000
And, but we did it on the move. So we, we climbed the hill and learned about Ethel's life and all these people, had joined in.

00:33:57.000 --> 00:34:03.000
Now this one is probably the This is my least favourite of all the hills. Because it's, that is the summit. Right.

00:34:03.000 --> 00:34:22.000
In amongst all those trees, this is not peaky. This is not pointy, but it is a high point not far from the Chatsworth estate but mmm yeah I'm not gonna dwell on that one I don't think we had a good laugh when we got there we brought Andy's wife came along.

00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:24.000
There were 4 of us that day. This one on the other hand, you might guess that this bunch should all come by bike.

00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:37.000
It's called Alec Low in the Mist. And they're wearing their high vis because we cycles to the bottom and then climbed up.

00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:56.000
This is quite a famous hill. Which some people might know, it's it's always pronounced chrome not chrome hill and often known as the the dragon's back it's another one of those limestone reefs and again that's quite pointy isn't it?

00:34:56.000 --> 00:35:04.000
Looking at it again from the side, but I had to capture the, the rainbow that day.

00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:16.000
This is another strange hill where this is actually on the side of the Kinder Plateau with this wonderful mushroom shaped rock.

00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:23.000
And coming down with the, the stream clattering down very, very few streams on the limestone.

00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:32.000
The limestone is pervious and the water goes through but actually on the grit stone like this you will have the surface water.

00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:44.000
And here we are, but it's just the map coming down into Edale. And, beautiful little bridge at the bottom as we, as we came down with my wife on the bridge there.

00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:51.000
This is another one with the unfortunate name of lost lad. We weren't lost that day, but we did go up and go through the mist.

00:35:51.000 --> 00:36:08.000
And again this is not a trick point but it's got a an orientation table but on the day that we went it wasn't much used to us because we couldn't see anything but and this is very near Buxton.

00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:12.000
This is really a folly. It's not, it's quite a low. Hill here.

00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:17.000
It's, called grin low. Just outside Buxton. That was a quick walk up to get there.

00:36:17.000 --> 00:36:29.000
Oh, can you see the rays of the sun coming out in every direction here? It's rather nice.

00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:33.000
It's called Shining Tour. Couldn't be a more appropriate picture, could it?

00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:44.000
Shining Tor. This is, on that road that really crosses between Macclesfield and Buxton pass the pub called the cat and fiddle And now this is the hottest day of the year, 2,022.

00:36:44.000 --> 00:36:56.000
Do you remember it went up to 40 degrees? We were a bit bonkers but we were determined to go we left home at 5 o'clock in the morning.

00:36:56.000 --> 00:37:02.000
We went and did this walk and we finished it, finished it at 9 o'clock in the morning.

00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:07.000
So we we did a very early walk. But it was the hottest day and we went to.

00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:16.000
The other one or the other of the sixes, the bleak low, I don't know what had happened to our writing that day. It's not very clear, is it?

00:37:16.000 --> 00:37:18.000
But that was, Bleak Low, which is one of one of the Ethel's over 600 meters.

00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:48.000
And it's an interesting place to go to. It has a bit of a sad association because there is still the the remains of an aircraft wreck from the Second World War and it wasn't shot down or anything it was just a mistake in navigation they thought that they were somewhere over Manchester I think and didn't realize how high the land was underneath them.

00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:51.000
So there's bits of the plane there. Let's go to the other end of the spectrum.

00:37:51.000 --> 00:38:02.000
Same year, just last year, but the tenth of December. And there we are. This is an Ethel in a different condition.

00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:09.000
Plowing through the

00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:22.000
So through the mist and funnily enough i was teaching a French course online at that time and through the mist came a voice from somebody saying Are you are you the French teacher?

00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:29.000
I've never met you but you look like the French teacher and sure enough. It was somebody from my French class.

00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:39.000
But, this trick point actually has got rather nice called Bradwell more. It's got a quite a nice little seat that some of these are constructed and put round there.

00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:44.000
That was the other end of that spectrum. Now I've come up with a notion of pops.

00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:54.000
I'm a little bit cynical about some of these. So-called high points. And I, this is I think is a pop.

00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:57.000
That is actually black chew head and 542 meters above sea level. Well, it actually is the highest point.

00:38:57.000 --> 00:39:15.000
But not by much. And I'm afraid I call pops pimples on plateaus. And there's some of these which really are, I'm just going to show you that again.

00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:22.000
There's nothing peaky or pointy about that. The best bit of this is actually the walk on the way up, not the arriving at the top.

00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:36.000
Now, good travel stories are supposed to contain a bit of conflict. And I have to say I have remained friends with my with my fellow walkers but we we did take very different views on this.

00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:45.000
Andy here was very, very determined to get ticks in boxes and he wanted to do all 95 of them in a year.

00:39:46.000 --> 00:40:03.000
I was much more interested in getting to know the hills and on one occasion I said to him, do you fancy coming and doing this this particular ethyl like no can't waste any time on that need to go on and get the rest of them Where as I said, I think I just want to know these hills better.

00:40:03.000 --> 00:40:11.000
You'll see really what I did in a minute. This is some of the ethyl antics that I got involved in because I just thought I wanted to know them well.

00:40:11.000 --> 00:40:19.000
I client this is at 1 point I climbed 89 I've had 16 breakfasts on the lethal and 12 sleeps.

00:40:19.000 --> 00:40:26.000
That's my book that records it all. So this is Cat's Tour, which is not far from Shining Tour actually.

00:40:26.000 --> 00:40:47.000
What an evening meal I had there. Once I, once I got the matches to work, you could just tell by the number of matches that are left lying around there that they work, they got a bit damp, took me a long time to get, get the Stover light but that was a really nice breakfast and that was the sunset over Manchester and those sunsets are just special.

00:40:47.000 --> 00:40:50.000
The view from the tent. This is another one place called Pillsbury Hill and this was on the autumn equinox.

00:40:50.000 --> 00:41:03.000
A autumn solstice. No, automatically not. That's wrong. That's wrong. It's the autumn equinox.

00:41:03.000 --> 00:41:10.000
Yeah, I mean breakfast. They're not solstice. And, this was rather nice.

00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:15.000
This was, I've shown you Muslim low already, but this was Muslim moonshine. My daughter wanted to come up and do this so we went and camped there together.

00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:37.000
In fact, we didn't even camp. We just slept out. This was that was the moonshine and this was this was the moon sunrise the following morning and that was the first view from the sleepy bag as the as the sun just came over the edge.

00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:48.000
And there we are, that's the next view as the sun was just beginning to burn even more and then this was the view we really wanted because we had a really nice breakfast with some lovely yoghurt.

00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:51.000
It was really quite something. Okay, this is nonsense again. Winter solstice, winter solstice, wearing the hats.

00:41:51.000 --> 00:42:05.000
None of us slept on this one actually, but we did go up early in the morning and we all have breakfast and porridge and with the trick point behind us.

00:42:05.000 --> 00:42:10.000
And it became a bit of a habit. That was 2021, 2022. We did the same thing.

00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:21.000
We went to have the solstice breakfast, a place called ravage. And you can see people have come again in

00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:24.000
Appropriate festive clothing. And that was the breakfast. The eggs, eggs taste so much nicer in places like this.

00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:36.000
Now this guy here, Ray, didn't come to sleep with us on top of this Ethel.

00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:51.000
In March because he had something to do the night before but you know what he is carrying a set of hot cossiles for us up from the car park and so John who was with me we enjoyed the Quasiles.

00:42:51.000 --> 00:43:00.000
It was long stood more equinox breakfast. And, we got the fire going and some coffee going and had that, but that was really misty and moisty.

00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:10.000
Now, you can see the castle's in the panorama, there and special little wood burner, which I think is a bit of a gem really, we can take it with you and you don't.

00:43:10.000 --> 00:43:18.000
It's not like making a fire, but you could cook on wood, which we really liked. What do we take away from these things?

00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:28.000
Well, I take away photographs. I like to take the pictures, but not everybody does photographs and I just wanted to share what my wife does.

00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:30.000
She writes haikus every time she does a hill. And my friend Andy is a great writer.

00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:50.000
And he's come out with some some wonderful phrases. He's really written up a lot of the ethos, the washed out colors, and weathered winter sky helping exaggerate the scale of everything.

00:43:50.000 --> 00:44:04.000
And. A trick point standing lost amongst the moors huge, muted hues. We reign in our sociability lengthen our stride and fix concentration on this.

00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:08.000
The only landmark. So I've, loved reading there. reactions to the trips.

00:44:08.000 --> 00:44:13.000
And I'm not sure about this one. Actually, I'm not really too sure about this.

00:44:13.000 --> 00:44:30.000
Is not somebody I know. But on quite a few of the ethos we've come across people somebody has been painting stones and leaving them on the top.

00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:37.000
Now on the face of it, quite nice, but if everybody did that, Then the tops would become quite littered.

00:44:37.000 --> 00:44:44.000
So, more recently, I've been back to some of the, some of the tops where I've seen these before and they've been collected.

00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:51.000
So, maybe it was, it was, it seemed like a nice idea, but probably not to be left.

00:44:51.000 --> 00:45:04.000
Where we usually have the rule take nothing but memories and leave nothing but footprints. So there we are.

00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:15.000
I think I just want to thank you very much for taking part and I'll hand back to Fiona in case there are any questions.

00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:23.000
Thank you very much, Alistair. Yes, I have some questions for you. So I shall just crack on straightway.

00:45:23.000 --> 00:45:30.000
I'm just going to start from the top everybody and this is a question from Sue.

00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:37.000
Is there much evidence of glaciation in this particular landscape? We see lots of that up here in Scotland.

00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:41.000
Lotsots and lots of evidence of what about in the peak district?

00:45:41.000 --> 00:45:55.000
Yeah, there is and that's that value of e-dale that I did show the picture of the one that we had previously had the had the temperature inversion then that's a you shape, Valley.

00:45:55.000 --> 00:45:56.000
We don't get corries in the way that you get in Scotland though it was there was much more sort of sheet ice and then, glaciers in the way that you get in Scotland though.

00:45:56.000 --> 00:46:09.000
It was there was much more sort of sheet ice and then, glaciers in quite lower valleys than Scotland.

00:46:09.000 --> 00:46:10.000

00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:12.000
Hmm, interesting we see so much of it up here, quite spectacular. And this, so that was a question from Sue.

00:46:12.000 --> 00:46:19.000
I hope that helps you right there. And another question from Angela. This is an interesting one actually.

00:46:19.000 --> 00:46:25.000
Are there any ancient carvings or engravings on any of the rocks in the ethos.

00:46:25.000 --> 00:46:26.000
Did you see anything like that?

00:46:26.000 --> 00:46:39.000
I did. Yes. And there's one particular place, which is called Bertrand Edge and it's not actually on the top but it's below the top.

00:46:39.000 --> 00:46:46.000
And it's something which we call rock art. And it is basically cup and ring circles.

00:46:46.000 --> 00:46:58.000
I don't know if people have come across cup and ring circles. They basically look like targets, so there's a smaller ring and a bigger ring beyond it and then they'll a little bit further away, there might be an indentation.

00:46:58.000 --> 00:47:05.000
Sometimes that one's got a ring around it. Sometimes it hasn't. And I've seen these in different places.

00:47:05.000 --> 00:47:20.000
But the one there's a virtual edge, is, is great. You have to, you have to go in on a compass bearing because it's not on a footpath and you get there and it's great and the people you've brought with you are just they gobsmacked and they think it's fantastic.

00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:33.000
And then you sit on it and you tap it. I need hollow! Is hollow because the University of Sheffield took a cast of the original one.

00:47:33.000 --> 00:47:50.000
Made a copy and the copy is so so believable from a distance they covered up the original and then they left the the cup and ring circles or the rock art as it sometimes called and it looks real from a distance but it's not

00:47:50.000 --> 00:47:51.000
Okay, there we go.

00:47:51.000 --> 00:47:56.000
Okay, can I just add to that? Yeah, I think you're particularly asking me about carvings.

00:47:56.000 --> 00:47:57.000

00:47:57.000 --> 00:48:03.000
And there are a couple of hermit's caves which have got carvings in them as well.

00:48:03.000 --> 00:48:20.000
One that's got a rather impressive crucifix but it's you know it's very very old you have to look carefully to find it and then the other thing that we've got plenty of as there is all over the country really is stone circles.

00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:34.000
And in the nineteenth century there was a very keen amateur archaeologist called Thomas Bateman and he investigated a lot of these.

00:48:34.000 --> 00:48:53.000
He died actually quite young. And strangely, his grave. Is now worth visiting because although he was a I think it was a Christian he wanted to be buried on the top of it on the side of a hill not in the cemetery So his grave is quite quirky.

00:48:53.000 --> 00:49:06.000
Okay, well there we go, Angela. I hope that answers your question. Now we've got another question from let me just scroll back again from Bridget.

00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:13.000
Our MAM Tor and the Hill in Castleton, the site of Peveril Castle, are they both Ethel's?

00:49:13.000 --> 00:49:26.000
MAMTOR is the Peveril Castle isn't really prominent. I mean, the castle bits prominent, but it's really on the edge of a ridge.

00:49:26.000 --> 00:49:38.000
Hmm. And Louise was also asking, I think it's related to that question. Wonder whether there's any links with the tour in Glastonbury

00:49:38.000 --> 00:49:44.000
Mantor, Glastonbury tour.

00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:45.000
Or is it?

00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:50.000
So that's not an Oh, the tour. Okay. No, I mean, there are lots of That it's quite a common name to for, the top of a hill.

00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:57.000
And, and of course in, in Dartmoor, we have lots of piles of stones that are actually called Tours as well.

00:49:57.000 --> 00:50:10.000
So I'm, I'm not. That there are important religious sites in the area in particular somewhere called are below which is sometimes called the Stonehenge of the North.

00:50:10.000 --> 00:50:19.000
The difference between our below and Stonehenge is that are below the stones of forward over. So when you get there you can see them but that they're horizontal.

00:50:19.000 --> 00:50:25.000
I'm not aware of a particular link with

00:50:25.000 --> 00:50:29.000
Okay, thank you. Okay, now we've had some questions from Teresa and from Andrew.

00:50:29.000 --> 00:50:42.000
And I'm going to kind of roll these 2 together. And Tsa's asking Have you walked the Pennine way and how many ethyls have you completed?

00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:50.000
And Andrew is asking. Did you do all 95? And which was the most challenging.

00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:58.000
Right, okay. So, let me, answer the pen on way one is not all of it.

00:50:58.000 --> 00:50:59.000
It's a long way.

00:50:59.000 --> 00:51:04.000
Yes, to that one. But It's a long way. No. And it's not top of my list.

00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:10.000
I mean, West Highland Way and one or 2 other long distance paths. Okay.

00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:19.000
I have I done all of the, okay. Now this is something which is important domestically for me.

00:51:19.000 --> 00:51:27.000
My wife has done 93 and I have done 94. And the plan is for us to both do 95 together.

00:51:27.000 --> 00:51:37.000
So we just hanging on. She's gonna do her 94 and then we're gonna go up and the last one will do will be called Mill Hill and it's on the side of, it's very close to Kinda.

00:51:37.000 --> 00:51:41.000
So that's the plan there, but it will happen. Yeah.

00:51:41.000 --> 00:51:46.000
Which is well so far. Which has been the most challenging one.

00:51:46.000 --> 00:52:00.000
Which was the most challenging. Yeah, that's, let me just, well, I think the day that I went up Greensborough Noel There was, it was, it was blowing a hooley.

00:52:00.000 --> 00:52:07.000
And it's quite steep anyway but when we got to the top you know it was one of those tops where you have the sit down or you'll get blown over.

00:52:07.000 --> 00:52:18.000
So it was to do with the conditions that we did it in. And I don't know if you remember the picture of me with the mushroom.

00:52:18.000 --> 00:52:27.000
Rock in the background that was that day so I would my answer is the day we did Kensburg Noel but on another day that would be easy.

00:52:27.000 --> 00:52:45.000
Okay, right. And I have another question here from and Tim. So from the most challenging to Which is your favorite one?

00:52:45.000 --> 00:52:48.000
Quite difficult and amongst 94, isn't it?

00:52:48.000 --> 00:52:50.000
It's, it's like when you've got kids, you know, you can't.

00:52:50.000 --> 00:52:52.000

00:52:52.000 --> 00:53:11.000
Well, I'm extremely fond of, Thorpe cloud which is it's the baby it's the baby of the family it's not but it's very peaky it's very pointy and it's the beginning of a very beautiful walk through Dovetail.

00:53:11.000 --> 00:53:20.000
And interestingly, Alfred Wainwright, of whom we've mentioned before, believed it was so nice that it should be the beginning of the Pennine way.

00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:26.000
He didn't get his way, but I could see his point. So I'm going to say Thorpe Cloud.

00:53:26.000 --> 00:53:34.000
Okay, there you go, Tim. No, I actually think we have come to the end of the questions.

00:53:34.000 --> 00:53:37.000
I think I've covered everything for everybody. So, I think we'll, we'll start to, to wrap things up there.

00:53:37.000 --> 00:53:50.000
So thanks very much for that, Alistair. And quite an adventure you had over quite a period of time in a very beautiful part of the country.

00:53:50.000 --> 00:54:03.000
And really interesting to hear about the history of the National Park. And how it all came to be. And you know, I guess it was a spearhead for, all the other national parks that, have come after.

00:54:03.000 --> 00:54:12.000
And funnily enough, I was quite pleased to hear a little mention of John Muir. Cause funnily enough, just not last weekend I walked a section of the John your way.

00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:34.000
At the weekend from South Queensberry to in Lithgow and Scotland so and it was very nice and it was very nice weather for a change so and so for anyone that's interested the John your way runs from West to east right across the middle of Scotland from Helensborough to in the West to Dunbar in the east.

00:54:34.000 --> 00:54:44.000
And it's fabulous. So, and I think that's us for tonight, so thanks again.


Lecture 163 - Pins and needles! a social history

We might not think of pins and needles as much as our ancestors did. Unless you are a crafter of some kind, you may not even be aware there are some in your house. But, for hundreds of years the humble pin and needle were valuable tools and symbols of female financial independence.

In this talk with WEA tutor Alison Warren, we'll explore how pins were used through time, how they were made and at what cost, and consider the importance of needle making to industrial development. Do you know what Jane Austen used pins for? It's not what you think!

Download the Q&A, useful links for further reading and forthcoming courses by the speaker here

Video transcript

00:00:05.000 --> 00:00:22.000
Hello, good evening everybody. So we're going to be spending bit time thinking about pins needles and I don't mean the sort that you get in your missiles and nerves they're a different kind of thing but they are obviously inspired by the action of being pricked between things and needles and will We'll have a look at why that might be in a little while.

00:00:22.000 --> 00:00:39.000
But let's start at the. With a beginning thought shall we?

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So This is a quote from of course, the wonderful Samuel Peaks and he is talking about.

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The fact that Pins were so very much part of the costume of what people wearing at the time.

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That it was very easy for them to be used to weapons of self-defense. Now, Samuel Peep says those of you who know his work, his diary, never he liked a pretty lady and was not a not averse to patting somebody on the bottom or trying to behave in a way that perhaps wouldn't be entirely appropriate for us now.

00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:39.000
But he certainly, got his come up in this particular case and she, Threatened she, he was threatened with these pins and he was, He was quick not to get pinned by her but he he was very much aware that they were there and this was kind of like the common occurrence.

00:01:39.000 --> 00:01:49.000
That people using pins as a defensive weapon because it was the one thing that women had on them at all times and this was kind of a thing that was going to exist for had already existed for 200 years and was going to exist for another 300.

00:01:49.000 --> 00:02:04.000
Most people kind of wandered around with their their clothes being held together with pins in many ways. But let's start the beginning.

00:02:04.000 --> 00:02:21.000
So we know from, some of the, archaeological. Bodies that have been found, the bodies that the peat bodies that sometimes Thorns were used to hold pieces of cloth together because that's the purpose of a PIN.

00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:25.000
A PIN is to hold 2 particular pieces of cloth together. And one of the advantages of a PIN of course is that it can hold together.

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Piece of cloth for a short period of time or for a long period of time and it can be different sorts of cloths.

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So you can PIN velvet to fur. You can PIN something quite fine like, lawn to silk.

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And and hold it in place. But we know from some of the archaeological research that's been done that this was something that was happening that we started by using the long thorns of trees to all things together and eventually as we get closer and close to Western history people start developing their own pins.

00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:28.000
Pin making is a very difficult craft. So, when the, the ancient Egyptians first started acting making pins, they were making them from the softest metal they could for the actually to work which was from bronze because drawing out the thread that you need to make pins is very difficult process.

00:03:28.000 --> 00:03:32.000
And, as we get into the medieval period, you start to see pins that are ornate and decorated.

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The examples that I've got for you there on the right are both, and one of them is Early medieval.

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And the beautifully carved one, which is an ivory PIN, is around about thirteenth century.

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And of course you can see that the intention is that the head of the pinch should be seen and that people people should know that you've got one.

00:03:59.000 --> 00:04:05.000
And that's why that's there.

00:04:05.000 --> 00:04:11.000
So we come into the Middle Ages and Pins became an obsession. Of the higher quality people in the in the realm.

00:04:11.000 --> 00:04:25.000
Because they were often You're beautifully produced, as you can see from the examples I've just shown you.

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And they were also. Could sometimes they were dual sometimes they were addicted but they were high value so they were sometimes listed in funeral.

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Passages in wills as an inheritance to be passed on from one person to another.

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As something that was really valuable. And in medieval France, they were they were highly priced.

00:04:52.000 --> 00:05:06.000
But Rich the Third. Decided that he was going to do something that a lot of kings did at the time, which is to try and control them monopoly that was coming in from another country and banned.

00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:16.000
French imported pins. In 1514, 83 to make sure that the English PIN makers had a chance.

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The Tudors took off with the whole PIN making process of holding together all sorts of garments with their pins and you can see They're on the right.

00:05:27.000 --> 00:05:37.000
The number of pins that are holding together are rough. Now, some of these pins will be left in place, some of them were there whilst the rough was being starched.

00:05:37.000 --> 00:05:47.000
So you'd be using a goofy line to get them into that particular shape. And then you would hold it in place with the pins and you would starch it.

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But they would still be held onto the neck of the shirt or with pins. There would be pins that would be holding, other parts of the clothing together.

00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:07.000
So there was a you know quite a lot of pins that went into. Making sure that they they were holding things in the right place.

00:06:07.000 --> 00:06:18.000
And and, Henry VIII. Was very interested in pins and was concerned about the quality of them because one of the challenges for the pins that were being made.

00:06:18.000 --> 00:06:31.000
Was that they were being made from drawn wire. And then the heads would be put on separately. So if they weren't connected properly, what you ended up with was a piece of sharp metal that was somewhere in your clothing and you couldn't find it.

00:06:31.000 --> 00:06:40.000
I haven't got the head. So he, had a law passed in 1543 about the standard of pins.

00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:53.000
So that we can make sure that they are absolutely the best quality that they can have. So he's talking about making sure that that they have nice soldered headset they will stay together.

00:06:53.000 --> 00:07:03.000
That this shank of the pins, the actual stem of the PIN as it were. Should be smooth so it doesn't snag on your clothing.

00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:09.000
That it should be well sharpened. So that it passes through the fabric easily as well.

00:07:09.000 --> 00:07:13.000
And this is this is a standard, and that is required before anybody could sell the pins. So this was, you know, really important part of what was being.

00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:26.000
Being talked about at the time.

00:07:26.000 --> 00:07:44.000
So I mentioned several times back their whole idea about making them so The way the paint were made, in the kind of in this early Not, any modern history period is, by the drawing of wire.

00:07:44.000 --> 00:07:50.000
So you take a piece of, a metal and draw it out as thinly as you possibly could.

00:07:50.000 --> 00:08:03.000
And then it would be they'd be divided up into different lengths. And. You would find yourself in this situation where you've got a piece of pinnaz bone.

00:08:03.000 --> 00:08:15.000
Now, Pinus bones at some point are sometimes mistaken for something that is much older because you can see from the picture on your left that it's, it's a piece of knuckle bones from this particular case.

00:08:15.000 --> 00:08:20.000
It's a sheep's bone. And it would be strapped to the PIN maker's leg.

00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:27.000
And then smoothed and sharpened by rubbing into the grooves that are created on the edge of the PIN.

00:08:27.000 --> 00:08:37.000
I'm on the edge of the bone. And you can see and the kind of definition of that in the more detailed picture on your right.

00:08:37.000 --> 00:08:46.000
So that would be really put then the the pinheads would be attached to that once it was smoothed.

00:08:46.000 --> 00:09:02.000
Sometimes what happens is these things that these, are kind of dug up in people's gardens or as part of archaeological digs and there is this part of archaeological digs and there is this assumption that because they are clearly some part of and there is this assumption that because they are clearly some part of some kind of industrial process that it is something to do with food but it's not is to do with food but it's not to do with food but

00:09:02.000 --> 00:09:11.000
it's not is to do with the making of pins.

00:09:11.000 --> 00:09:16.000
We seem to have skipped it. No, no I haven't. Go ahead for a second.

00:09:16.000 --> 00:09:28.000
So to begin with we got pins that were being sold loose So you kind of go and buy a way to the pins.

00:09:28.000 --> 00:09:37.000
And then they'd be wrapped in penny paper, they'd be wrapped in a heavy paper, and then So, you know, put in the box and sold that way.

00:09:37.000 --> 00:10:00.000
So you would go and ask for, you know, half an hour's pins. Around about 1785 somebody had the clever idea that perhaps what we needed to do was to try and keep them from being rest free because the danger of buying loose pins was the first thing you had to do when you took them home, sort through them and sort out the rusty ones and the ones that lost their heads because it wasn't

00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:18.000
up to the the seller to look after those kind of things. So in your. Could be a lot of things that you couldn't actually use that will rescue that would damage your fabric, that had no heads on them so they wouldn't damage your fabric, that had no heads on them so they wouldn't stay in your in your clothing or they just disappear.

00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:36.000
So it was necessary for something else to be done. And somebody had the idea of putting them into. PIN papers so that you could buy a smaller amount of pins but you could guarantee that all the pins you were buying were of decent quality and that you could use them straight away.

00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:58.000
So on the right here we've got an example of it and very early. PIN paper and this is for a hundred pins and you could see that when you bought these you could see that they all had their heads on you could see they weren't rusty and you could keep them in these PIN papers and keep them dry and therefore make sure that they were safe.

00:10:58.000 --> 00:11:07.000
From any other damage that might occur to them. And they. 2, very popular it proved to be the thing to do because the other thing that you could do was of course is that you could actually take a paper of pins with you.

00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:19.000
In your bag in your pocket. In your ridicule and make sure that you have always had them with you.

00:11:19.000 --> 00:11:31.000
And this made it possible for people to carry pins around with them and this is really important. And

00:11:31.000 --> 00:11:44.000
Because the nature of costume was such that you needed to PIN things down by the eighteenth century when people are wearing fish you a little scarf over there, over there.

00:11:44.000 --> 00:11:49.000
Neckline. gentlemen wearing crevats. Sometimes these things are pinned onto your clothing.

00:11:49.000 --> 00:12:00.000
Lace was pinned onto shirts in order that it can be removed and washed separately. So it could be protected.

00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:08.000
So the idea of having pins upon your person was important. The other thing was that when you get this a lot in, Regency, is people having their code, the ladies particularly having their clothes stepped on.

00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:18.000
So you'd get some you have some clumsy gentlemen would come and step on your skirt.

00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:26.000
And your skirt would tear. And you would find yourself with a hole in your dress. So you would then retire somewhere private and PIN up your frock.

00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:37.000
To make sure that you could carry on doing whatever is social activity that you were involved with without having the embarrassment and of course the further damage to your garments.

00:12:37.000 --> 00:12:46.000
And these, this idea of having pins always around you was something that became very much part of the insight.

00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:55.000
But they wouldn't just one sort of PIN. There were many different sorts of pins. And they were used for different, purposes.

00:12:55.000 --> 00:13:11.000
And planned to to be so. And also they will give you different names. So the standard PIN, the PIN that we in probably would be the one that we would recognize was called a short white.

00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:18.000
Sounds a little bit like a pig and they were just over an inch long and we were quite thin. And they were covered with a layer of tin oxide to make them white.

00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:23.000
Again, the whole idea being that you would know they were there, but other people couldn't see it.

00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:35.000
Without the tin layer, they were known as red pins and they were cheaper. So you could afford to have them, but of course they could be seen amongst your clothes.

00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:46.000
There was another sort of white PIN which was called the midlings or long whites and they were slightly longer and slightly thicker than the short whites and they were used for heavy adjudic duty fabrics.

00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:52.000
I mean, I mentioned at the top of my talk, the idea of pinning fur to velvet.

00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:59.000
We'll pass Bellwick to fur. That would have been required. A middling PIN in order to carry the weight.

00:13:59.000 --> 00:14:07.000
A small white wouldn't have been able to do it. And then they were double long white or blanket pains.

00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:12.000
And they were about 3 inches long and were very heavy duty.

00:14:12.000 --> 00:14:21.000
And were intended to hold really heavy things together. And to keep, perhaps to keep your cloak closed.

00:14:21.000 --> 00:14:26.000
Perhaps to PIN part of your coat together, that's to PIN part of your skirts together and they'd be required to be a bit longer.

00:14:26.000 --> 00:14:37.000
And these particular pins that we, they were also sometimes used for furnishing fabrics, dealing with curtains.

00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:50.000
And they had a glorious set of names depending on what part of the country you were in. So, blanket pins are also known as, and core kings and corking pins.

00:14:50.000 --> 00:15:03.000
And a kind of contraction of the whole thing, and you will find people talking about these in sort of letters about being having bought them or having used them or were still having lost.

00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:09.000
And, They were, yeah, you could get quite a lot of pins for your money.

00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:15.000
And it was sixpence a thousand in 1607. And pins were really important particularly in the wardrobe of Elizabeth.

00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:32.000
First she had her own pinna. His name was, Roberts Careless. And she ordered from him in October, 1565.

00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:52.000
18,000. I'll say that again, 18,000 Farthingale pins. 20,000 great velvet pins, so the middling type, 9,000 small head pins and 19,000 small headpins all for our great wardrobe.

00:15:52.000 --> 00:16:10.000
So we're talking about thousands and thousands of pins and this was just one order. Towards the end of the year that Elizabeth required this number of pins to hold together her fabulous costumes.

00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:20.000
What of the other things that is interesting about pins, of course, is that, they are connected very firmly to economic theory.

00:16:20.000 --> 00:16:27.000
Adam Smith, the great Scottish economist and philosopher, to say Scottish because of the West funeral checked at me.

00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:32.000
Produced a book in 1776 Significant year of course is the year of independence in America as well.

00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:40.000
The book called The Wealth of Nations, which I'm sure many of you have heard of.

00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:49.000
It was the produce of 17 years of thinking about the way that. Humans work and how we create money.

00:16:49.000 --> 00:17:02.000
We sometimes referred to as the father of capitalism. In his book he describes the work of a PIN factory that he visits or he claims to have visited.

00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:15.000
And the idea being each worker specialized in different part of the process. So you've got one person who's drawing the wire, one person is straightening it, one person, and so on.

00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:28.000
Ball down the process. And this PIN factory was producing right around about 5,000 pins a day so they would have been able to provide Elizabeth the first with her pins within a matter of days.

00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:38.000
And he uses the PIN factory. As a model for the idea of specialization. So he's saying that, you know, if each worker specializing in one thing gets really good at it.

00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:50.000
So the one that draws out the wire gets really good at drawing out the wire. And then passes it on to the next person.

00:17:50.000 --> 00:18:00.000
And then goes back to the job. That is a way of improving productivity. And that you can produce better goods at a far higher rate.

00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:11.000
Now this idea of course doesn't really kicking until we get into the nineteenth century and Henry forward comes up with the production line, which is kind of we know it.

00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:19.000
But this is what Adam Smith is arguing for. It's not entirely his own idea. I think I should point out at this point.

00:18:19.000 --> 00:18:29.000
Dennis DD. Do, produced a similar idea also talking about a PIN factory in 1775.

00:18:29.000 --> 00:18:31.000
And so a year before this This book was published. So it seems like a lot of people were thinking about the process.

00:18:31.000 --> 00:18:45.000
Of their PIN making as being important to the economy of the nation.

00:18:45.000 --> 00:19:07.000
And since we're talking about economies, let's talk about PIN money. Ping money was, traditionally one part of the marriage settlement between a man and a woman and their families that was particularly for the woman herself.

00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:18.000
The idea was that she would get a specified amount of money that was identified as being PIN money.

00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:32.000
Which would be her own. She didn't have to account to anybody for how it was spent. She didn't have to, demand that to be given it wasn't kind of like housekeeping that you know you need to buy this because of this.

00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:42.000
The PIN money was hers and hers and and it was often very much part of the process of writing up the settlements, which was so essential to.

00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:51.000
The marriage arrangements. 4 people in the seventeenth, eighteenth and even in the early nineteenth century.

00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:59.000
And this money was kind of ring fenced. You know, once he was there, it was there for them to have his their excuse exclusive use and they could use it as they chose.

00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:10.000
And that independence with money is really important to the way that women start thinking about about having their own money moving forward.

00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:17.000
It was also a practice at the time to, to add a few extra coins to the merchant, and that you might have purchased something for or maybe that given good service.

00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:26.000
You know, if you if you'd had a I particularly good, we all right, make you some very fine wheels.

00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:40.000
Then and the bill came in, it might be possible that you might round up. The amount that you were paying as a kind of tip.

00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:50.000
But the tip would also would be same, would be aimed at the woman. So it would be labeled on this on the accounts as PIN money for your wife.

00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:59.000
And that would be passed on to. To the lady. The idea being that it's close that no man is successful in business without a good wife.

00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:18.000
The idea was that the women would be, it was intended to buy flipperies. The not only would the number of pins that you would need it because everybody need a lot of pins would be part of the you know your purchase but Rubens gloves fans and perfume and all sorts of bits and pieces.

00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:30.000
Stockings. Would be part of that. But careful women found themselves husbanding this money and doing other things with it.

00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:41.000
Women buying books. Women buying paper to write books. Women buying artist material so they could paint.

00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:54.000
Or write music. And they were using their PIN money to start just to kind of in help with creating these endeavors that were perhaps slightly out of the sphere of the wife or the daughter.

00:21:54.000 --> 00:22:02.000
But they were using the money because it was their own and it was really important to see how that, process.

00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:05.000

00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:14.000
Of having the many change the way that people started to think because they had their own money. It was theirs and independent.

00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:17.000
And by the time we get into the Victorian period and pins are being made much more cheaply because they're not being made by hand anymore.

00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:30.000
PIN money starts to be, the kind of Pocket money. Many that you might use to cover trivial expenses.

00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:40.000
But it also at this time starts being used by by women to support other things. To pay for membership.

00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:57.000
Of libraries, of societies. Of political organizations. So because it can't be questioned because it's not anybody else's money that theirs.

00:22:57.000 --> 00:23:09.000
And, this is lovely. You won't hardly ever see these. But, at one time, because book binding takes a long time and it's very expensive.

00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:19.000
And beautiful work but sometimes you have manuscripts that needed to be kept together particularly if they were going for publication.

00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:30.000
He was sending them off for a. And, if you wanted to hold something together because you were going to read from it, then you would often PIN them together.

00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:37.000
And you can see here that what's happened is that they've taken it. A section of the paper of.

00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:47.000
Different parts of the document and ping it together. And this was one of the purposes for which.

00:23:47.000 --> 00:23:54.000
The red pins, the non oxidized pins would be used. And we know that it was common to be good.

00:23:54.000 --> 00:24:03.000
You know, we found we found some examples in, in sermons. We also know that Jane Austen bought pins for the purpose of holding together her manuscripts.

00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:15.000
We don't know whether or not that was how they would arrive at the publisher but it was certainly how they were being used when the practice was in the Austin household that Jane would read her stories allowed to the family, that that's how her books were held together at that point.

00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:25.000
Because they certainly couldn't have afford them afforded for them to be banned, at that particular point.

00:24:25.000 --> 00:24:31.000
Unfortunately there are very few excellent examples we can see now because lots of librarians have been through these books, removed the pins, had them properly bound.

00:24:31.000 --> 00:24:50.000
So we've lost a lot of the construction of these pins being held together. With the with the, the, the, the, cute approach to it.

00:24:50.000 --> 00:25:03.000
I'm actually also met you very carefully around your manuscripts because you might get picked by the pins and you do when you get blood stains like, you know, when you work.

00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:15.000
So we're gonna move on. To needles. And We know that the whole idea is, is it's a very simple one.

00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:21.000
That it's something sharp at one end and hold at the other to have some kind of.

00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:28.000
Of thread. I'm gonna use the word thread in its looses sense which could be a grass.

00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:36.000
It could actually be animal guts or sinew to try and Placing 2 pieces of material together.

00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:51.000
But the Needles that were being made way way back in time. The ones at the top there which come from 7, 17,500 BC.

00:25:51.000 --> 00:26:13.000
Yeah, incredibly ancient, look pretty much like, and I went into taping point at the other and they would be made from materials that were available and that will easily worked bones and antlers as in the examples that are on the lower section there on the left.

00:26:13.000 --> 00:26:23.000
And we, have this approach.

00:26:23.000 --> 00:26:27.000
When they start to become.

00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:43.000
Steel. We start to work in steel. They come into Europe through Spain. And the, it's the Spanish inherit the wonderful ability which is still very much a part of some North African craft work.

00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:58.000
Of. Certain Islamic groups being able to use metalwork to create incredibly fine needles. It's that business about drawing the thread out that your needs and then you have to pace it with the whole.

00:26:58.000 --> 00:27:08.000
Without splitting the without splitting the metalwork. And this particular find skill was something that was very well known.

00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:18.000
And it, came into Europe through Spain from various refugees who came into Europe that way.

00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:41.000
In fact the only needle acre in the London of Henry VIII time who could who had a license to draw his own steel which meant that of course he can make everything from and therefore not have to cut out the middle have to pay somebody to draw the wire for him was actually a Spaniard.

00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:46.000
And he had learned his trade in this particular way.

00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:59.000
Generally speaking the needles that were available to a great many people at this time were very crude in manufacturer and we're Yeah, usually made by the village blacksmith.

00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:17.000
And so if you could get hold of something that was a little bit more, fancy that was better made then you would find yourself in the delightful position of having something that you would use and you would hang onto.

00:28:17.000 --> 00:28:23.000
Needle making became a very, therefore became a very big industry. You know, it was something that a lot of people wanted to do.

00:28:23.000 --> 00:28:44.000
And It was calculated that this time, through the seventeenth, eighteenth, nineteenth century, even the early twentieth century, that most households would need something in the region of 3 to 4 hands sewing needles per year.

00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:49.000
And that's not for fancy selling, that's not the kind of sewing that we do for leisure purposes.

00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:55.000
That's the kind of sewing that. That is necessary. That's the dawning.

00:28:55.000 --> 00:29:04.000
That's the doing your repairs that's making your own shirts. That's putting a patch on your trousers kind of activity.

00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:14.000
And, so these are really important to the whole process. Of. Of people's daily lives.

00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:29.000
So if you've had a needle, then you would make sure you looked after it. And that's why, you know, pincushions, which they call pincushions, but they were called pincushions, but they were also their tolding needle, are often very elaborate things.

00:29:29.000 --> 00:29:37.000
And because they were very precious. And very important. And they were a way of keeping the needles and the pins dry.

00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:43.000
You say to avoid the rest.

00:29:43.000 --> 00:29:54.000
But because, with, you know, when we're getting particularly into the, eighteenth century and then sort of early Victorian.

00:29:54.000 --> 00:30:04.000
We then sort of early Victorian. We start seeing very elaborate clothing that requires a lot of elaborate clothing that requires a lot of elaborate embroidery clothing that requires a lot of elaborate embroidery that requires a lot of elaborate embroidery, which means that there is a great demand for a huge range of needles.

00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:14.000
And. It was mostly being produced in London. Those refuge those Spanish refugees I mentioned earlier were being based there.

00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:22.000
But eventually, and there were a number of guild restrictions that were put on the on the idea of including machinery.

00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:30.000
In the seventeenth century. So a number of firms, particularly mill wards and morals, decided that they would move out of London and that they would move to.

00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:44.000
And all places, Redditch in Worcestershire. And, It was all done so that they could introduce levels of machinery.

00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:57.000
And reddish rapidly became world famous for the high quality manufacturing of its hand sewing needles. So much so that there is a small town outside Tokyo in Japan that is called Redditch and it was deliberately created.

00:30:57.000 --> 00:31:10.000
So that a Japanese manufacturers could put made in redditch on their needles. Without actually breaking the law.

00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:22.000
So you're in Tokyo going looks for English. Because of course the needles were needed from just more than

00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:32.000
And sewing. By this time we're starting to see the being used in medicine. We started to see the being used in clockmaking, Goldsmithing.

00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:42.000
Itching all manner of things that they're being used for and so the amount of needles that are required is increasing rapidly.

00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:51.000
At its peak, Redditch was producing 90% of the world's hands sewing meals, not just Britons, the world.

00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:59.000
And it was the mass employer in that particular corner of Worcestershire. Pretty much everybody worked there.

00:31:59.000 --> 00:32:10.000
And by the time that World War II hit and Redditch,s needle making was of course affected by the war effort.

00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:21.000
They were, 45 million needles were coming out of budget every and redditch every every week which you know covered the whole, the whole of the world.

00:32:21.000 --> 00:32:26.000
You know, if you didn't buy a needle that wasn't from Redditch then you had found a rare thing.

00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:30.000
And I thought I would mention, if you, if you happen to have the time.

00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:35.000
The Forge Mill Needle Museum, which is at, which is in Redditch, is a fascinating place to go and it will be open.

00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:46.000
And until the end of this month and reopens again in March. And those of you kind of slight.

00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:54.000
Factoid to go with it. Some of you may remember a very famous show jumping horse called Penwood Ford Mill.

00:32:54.000 --> 00:33:04.000
And Penwood Fort mill was named for the forge mill in Reditch. It's on the site of a medieval Abbey as well, so you get 2 for one.

00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:16.000
It's quite a nice day out. But slowly but surely we were getting into a situation where the needles were being manufactured by machine.

00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:23.000
There is only one kind of the needle now that is being made by hand and you might be relieved to know that they are surgical needles.

00:33:23.000 --> 00:33:28.000
So that the needles that are used to, to show you up after an operation or to put stitches in you are still made by hand.

00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:43.000
Because that gives them the finest quality.

00:33:43.000 --> 00:34:02.000
It wasn't all plain sailing though. And needle makers life. Was As with so many industrial products that they were limited to their lifespan because of the the nature of the work they did.

00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:23.000
And What you're talking about is fine metal and fine stone. In the air. So something was developed that was called pointed rot and pointed rot was, that kind of

00:34:23.000 --> 00:34:38.000
Disease that resulted in as a consequence of people breathing in all of this fine powder. Stone desk of limestone and steel that they would that they were doing from grinding the number of needles that they were doing.

00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:51.000
It was peace work. So you were paid according to how many needles you produced. So a good point could produce 10,000 needles in an hour.

00:34:51.000 --> 00:35:01.000
But that meant that all that time that they were working way on the grindstone that they were breathing in the, the effects of the, what they would.

00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:10.000
Of what they were creating. And there are certainly, a number of records of these grindstones breaking.

00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:19.000
And when they broke they exploded. In in you know under pressure. And they would produce, you know.

00:35:19.000 --> 00:35:30.000
Sure, and people would be killed. But the point is rot was the thing that was killing more people because they're growing sounds breaking was a rare thing.

00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:38.000
And the result was that and a pointer, sharpener the needles, their life expectancy was usually under 35 years old.

00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:48.000
And they were earning quite a lot of money. Yeah, a guinea day was a lot of money and therefore it was considered that the risks to your health was worthwhile.

00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:55.000
But it was still, still not a great, a great age to live to even in the Victorian period.

00:35:55.000 --> 00:36:19.000
Added to that, this challenge of trying to keep the needles and pins rest free was that a lot of eighteenth century needle, certainly the ones that were being imported from France, were packed in Aspen, And of course we now know how poisonous that is and to add to a situation where you've got people who are already.

00:36:19.000 --> 00:36:24.000

00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:36.000
Material that is contaminated, tried asbestos in it as well, must have had some kind of effect on on the pointers rot.

00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:42.000
The other. Sad thing about needles, of course, is the lot of the seamstress.

00:36:42.000 --> 00:37:05.000
Being a seamstress was one of only 2 jobs that was open to a woman. That would have a certain class if you were kind of Hello, a middle class you were educated working class then you could either become a governess if you had the right kind of skills or being a seamstress, they were the respectable things to do.

00:37:05.000 --> 00:37:19.000
Rather than becoming a prostitute. But they were paid. By piecework. So they were, horribly abused.

00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:34.000
They were paid. To sew in their own homes. So that they would. Go to the shop go to the millionaires go to the dress makers.

00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:40.000
To collect their work and then they would take it home with them. So it would be in their own conditions.

00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:49.000
Whether and you know if there wasn't enough light if there was enough heat if it was dry. And it would be what they could provide for themselves.

00:37:49.000 --> 00:37:57.000
And very often these women were raising children as well. So they would be doing their selling during the day.

00:37:57.000 --> 00:38:02.000
They would be having to do it late at night. And the idea was you go and collect your sewing in the morning.

00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:09.000
You go and do your sewing and then deliver it again in the morning and certainly they became an awareness of the plight of these women.

00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:28.000
And the misery that was being caused by by this process. And this particularly became, during the sort of 18 forties, 18 fifties.

00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:46.000
When people were wearing clothes that were elaborately embroidered. If you, visit costume museums and you look at the beautiful crinolines and and waistcoats that were being worn by the middle and upper classes at this time.

00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:54.000
They are all hands own and they would have been hands on by somebody sitting in a garret somewhere trying to hold her trying to keep body and cell together.

00:38:54.000 --> 00:39:11.000
So do people became very interested in trying to improve the lot. These these poor women and one of the blows for it was there was from artists So Thomas Hood, wrote a long poem called The Song of the Shirt.

00:39:11.000 --> 00:39:25.000
Well, he, to, to describe the life that, that these, women were leaving and, paintings like the one on the right here, it became almost a common trope.

00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:34.000
There are lots and lots of examples of painters painting this picture. All the steam stress at her work.

00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:43.000
I mean partly of course it's to do with the artistic quality of what you've got is a female form with a single opinion.

00:39:43.000 --> 00:39:52.000
We to light which of course is always very pleasant to paint. You know it's a good way of showing off your skills, but it was also a way of trying to draw people's attention to it.

00:39:52.000 --> 00:40:02.000
And in particular. Early cartoonists in punch started to draw attention to it by using these cartoons.

00:40:02.000 --> 00:40:17.000
That where you've got people having purchased and an item that has been sewn by one of these, and that interestingly, reflects.

00:40:17.000 --> 00:40:36.000
The damage that has been done by including some pretty groomy elements of it. The image on the top left hand side there is by John to Neil who did the illustrations for Alice in Windland and is quite a famous image and this woman is very beautiful dress.

00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:52.000
With the. Had the employer with this the seeing the dressmaker behind her going on madam you look beautiful that when she looks in the mirror she can see the exhausted woman who's actually sewn it all together.

00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:58.000
And the idea of shirts with skulls on. That you were.

00:40:58.000 --> 00:41:06.000
That by wearing one of these shirts you are also wearing the the bodies of the people who have created it.

00:41:06.000 --> 00:41:21.000
And then the skeleton delivering the the dress, in the bottom right hand corner. And you can see that the bottom right there is also making a reference to the, the drawing rooms.

00:41:21.000 --> 00:41:27.000
To the presentation of young women to It's usually the Queen. And that to the monarch as the start of their.

00:41:27.000 --> 00:41:39.000
Their first season. And join in the marriage market and the the feathers were expected to be part of your dress.

00:41:39.000 --> 00:41:51.000
So, and you can see the crime there. So they're drawing, attention to the fact that in order for women to fulfill the season to have all the clothes that they need.

00:41:51.000 --> 00:42:02.000
And eventually in 1,843 the Children's Employment Commission who were investigating these kind of issues.

00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:10.000
Created the investigation paid for by the government into the millinery in dressmaking trades and they concluded.

00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:24.000
That and I'm quoting now there is no class of persons in this country living by their labor this happiness and health and lives are so unscrupulously sacrificed as those of the young dress makers.

00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:35.000
And it led to the series of laws. Some of the first labour laws that were ever passed in this country to encourage people to to consider where they had purchased things from.

00:42:35.000 --> 00:42:52.000
And also, put limits on the amount of work that could be done at home. It indicated the conditions to in which people could could sit.

00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:58.000
The kind of lighting levels and all of those kind of things. It didn't, eradicate it completely.

00:42:58.000 --> 00:43:13.000
I mean, we know this to be true that clothes and the sewing of clothes in sweatshops is now something that is still very much part of our lives and still something that we need to to guard against.

00:43:13.000 --> 00:43:27.000
But it is something that, still needs thinking about. And, If we can, yeah, think about these skills on these shirts, then we might want to think about how we also managing for it for ourselves.

00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:33.000
And. I'm going to leave you with that thought, something penny to contain with.

00:43:33.000 --> 00:43:38.000
So if you are interested, this year I'm playing spending a lot of time with my culinary history, which is my main hat.

00:43:38.000 --> 00:43:56.000
And so, I'm doing 2 more courses this in this academic year. Of social history related things so one of them will be in the spring which is about important cooks in their cookbooks.

00:43:56.000 --> 00:44:10.000
So if you want to know about, Delia Smith's hero, or, the former curry, the first cookbook, probably published in English, then that's the course for you.

00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:15.000
And then in the summer I'm going to be looking at the history of individual foodstuffs.

00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:21.000
With tea and coffee and bread and also thinking about junk food and where does the hamburger come from?

00:44:21.000 --> 00:44:29.000
Cause they're quite interesting stories. And I look forward to taking all your questions now.

00:44:29.000 --> 00:44:32.000
Thank you very much, Charlie. We've got I've got quite a lot of questions for you.

00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:33.000

00:44:33.000 --> 00:44:34.000
I can see the number ticking up there so I

00:44:34.000 --> 00:44:45.000
I'm gonna just start from the top. So of towards the start of the presentation we could see the word pins spelt quite differently from how we spell it now, PY, to Blenhei.

00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:47.000

00:44:47.000 --> 00:44:51.000
Do we know when the spelling changed?

00:44:51.000 --> 00:44:52.000
That being roughly.

00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:53.000
It's Dr. Johnson. So that's, what is it?

00:44:53.000 --> 00:45:04.000
It's a, 1710. Somebody correct me if they if they like. Because.

00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:09.000
Up until that point, up until. Dr.

00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:17.000
Johnson sat down. And 10 years he spent creating the dictionary there was no common way of spelling anything.

00:45:17.000 --> 00:45:25.000
So you spelled it the way you said it sounded. I mean, if you look in Shakespeare, you'll see that Shakespeare makes up words.

00:45:25.000 --> 00:45:30.000
Makes up lots and lots of words. So and and he doesn't always spell in the same way.

00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:40.000
And it's because nobody, there was no common way of saying it. There was no common way writing it and it's only until somebody actually writes it down and codifies it which starts with.

00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:46.000
Document with Dr. Johnson that somebody goes okay the way we spell this word in this language is this.

00:45:46.000 --> 00:45:48.000
That's why it happened.

00:45:48.000 --> 00:45:56.000
Okay, interesting. I hope that answers your question. That was from Karen. So another question from Andrea.

00:45:56.000 --> 00:46:05.000
All these pins that people had in their clothing. Do people just have to put up with injuries because of that?

00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:06.000
Just, every day.

00:46:06.000 --> 00:46:13.000
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, haven't asked, I mean, when you mentioned the beginning of the talk, that I'm a, reenactor.

00:46:13.000 --> 00:46:24.000
Well, as a reenactor you find yourself using pins in this way. And you just get used to the fact that your You learn to move so that they don't.

00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:35.000
Scratch you. I mean in when I'm in seventeenth century dress I always, I know because I'm a, I represent a respectable, of last lady.

00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:42.000
I have a A kerchief and that is fastened with pins a bit handmade that are authentic.

00:46:42.000 --> 00:46:49.000
And you just get used to the idea that they're there. You very careful about hugging people.

00:46:49.000 --> 00:46:52.000
You can see why there wasn't a lot hugging went on. Because if you do this very good chance that you'll get stuck by a pain.

00:46:52.000 --> 00:47:08.000
I mean, anybody who's been at the tell at the making end of dress making. As I was as child standing on a chair whilst my mother pinned things to me will know how painful it can be.

00:47:08.000 --> 00:47:19.000
But you just get very careful. And the, the trick with the rough, I mean, you saw how many pins they were in the rough is that you have a high shirt collar.

00:47:19.000 --> 00:47:33.000
That goes up underneath it and the rough is pinned to the collar. A lot of the pins that Elizabeth the first would have been using would have been to hold bits of clothing together.

00:47:33.000 --> 00:47:40.000
So to make, you know, when you see a portrait of Elizabeth the first and she's got the beautiful flat stomacher.

00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:44.000
Then that would have been laced into place and then pinned them so it was flat. But of course it's over the top layers of stuff.

00:47:44.000 --> 00:47:57.000
And nobody's going to approach the Queen and give her a hug. So it's probably quite safe from that point of view, but you learn to kind of keep your hands away from where the places where they are.

00:47:57.000 --> 00:48:05.000
We just we are not used to the discomfort in our food, you know, in our clothing that our ancestors took as granted.

00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:12.000
Yeah, interesting. Okay, I hope that answers your question, Andrea. Leading on from that.

00:48:12.000 --> 00:48:18.000
And a question from Elizabeth. When we're safety pins introduced.

00:48:18.000 --> 00:48:32.000
Safety pins are 20 century. Invention. Did toy with talking about safety pins but you know there's a limited amount of time I go on about pincushions a lot as well.

00:48:32.000 --> 00:48:36.000
If you want to start a collection, PIN cushions is called quite a lot of fun.

00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:48.000
But they are a twentieth century invention and there was a patent for them in and I'm going to have to look it up for you because it's gone out of my head.

00:48:48.000 --> 00:48:53.000
But it's round about 1920 something.

00:48:53.000 --> 00:49:01.000
Because obviously it's, if you think about a safety PIN, it's quite a complicated bit of technology.

00:49:01.000 --> 00:49:05.000
You know, you think about that straight wire.

00:49:05.000 --> 00:49:11.000
And you, so what you're doing is straining out a piece of wire, putting in head head on it.

00:49:11.000 --> 00:49:19.000
The safety PIN is a complicated piece of wiring. So it wouldn't have occurred to anybody to join and fix it.

00:49:19.000 --> 00:49:25.000
You can see why, you know, somebody thought that's a good idea. Let's do that.

00:49:25.000 --> 00:49:26.000

00:49:26.000 --> 00:49:31.000
You will say probably need to think about all those babies. We went through like having nacies cleaned to them.

00:49:31.000 --> 00:49:36.000
Probably a 2.

00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:42.000
Prior to the creation of the safety PIN. That, to talking about nappies is a whole different conversation.

00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:45.000
Okay. Right. And

00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:49.000
If you're very good, I'll tell you why they're called diapers. Okay.

00:49:49.000 --> 00:50:07.000
And. And I've got a question from Jin. This is quite an interesting one. How much overlap was there between the making of pins and the making of nails?

00:50:07.000 --> 00:50:08.000

00:50:08.000 --> 00:50:25.000
Very little. I know that you you think you can I can see why you would think that and of course The the corner of the Midlands that we're talking about with with Redditch is part of a whole industrial complex where there was chain making and there was nail making.

00:50:25.000 --> 00:50:36.000
But they're 2 very different skills. Now making about bashing a piece of metal into a particular shape.

00:50:36.000 --> 00:50:43.000
Needle making is about drawing out wire. You're using different sorts of metal at different sorts of levels.

00:50:43.000 --> 00:50:46.000

00:50:46.000 --> 00:50:52.000
There was very little crossover between the workmen that did these things.

00:50:52.000 --> 00:50:53.000
Oh, absolutely. I can understand why somebody's asked that question.

00:50:53.000 --> 00:50:59.000
Hmm, interesting, cause you can't see why. Yes. Okay, there's your answer, Jean.

00:50:59.000 --> 00:51:07.000
No, we're gonna talk about pen money. So a couple of questions. I' both of them at the same time.

00:51:07.000 --> 00:51:08.000

00:51:08.000 --> 00:51:15.000
From Sue, was there any redress if the husband did not provide the agreed PIN money?

00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:20.000
And what size were the PIN money bottles? Cause that was kind of, you know. Let us know kind of how much.

00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:23.000

00:51:23.000 --> 00:51:31.000
In there, how much people go.

00:51:31.000 --> 00:51:32.000
. One

00:51:32.000 --> 00:51:38.000
Right, so the redress was the husband could be taken to court. By father or brother because it would be part of a legal settlement.

00:51:38.000 --> 00:51:42.000
So if you imagine.

00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:48.000
I am, I'm in, I'm in eighteenth century gentleman. I'm back to marry off my daughter.

00:51:48.000 --> 00:51:54.000
And so I am going to give with my daughter her dowry.

00:51:54.000 --> 00:52:01.000
But, and along with that, we'll come in agreement about how much PIN money she's going to, she's going to get.

00:52:01.000 --> 00:52:08.000
Thank you very much. The person you just looked up safety pins by the way. Thank you. Much early and I remember.

00:52:08.000 --> 00:52:18.000
And, It is part of the legal document that both parties are going to sign. So the father.

00:52:18.000 --> 00:52:30.000
Brother, guardian of the future bride and the husband to be, they're going to have a legal document just drawn up that includes, I am going to give her so much pain money.

00:52:30.000 --> 00:52:39.000
Usually in that document as well, you would find. Indications of what was gonna happen if the husband died.

00:52:39.000 --> 00:52:44.000
Yeah, who was responsible for the children? What kind of money would be left for all of that kind of thing?

00:52:44.000 --> 00:52:53.000
So it was a legal document and therefore if the money wasn't paid. Then it would be something that you could recourse to law for.

00:52:53.000 --> 00:53:02.000
The woman couldn't do herself because women had no. Right in law. But you, you know, it was because it was quite a big deal.

00:53:02.000 --> 00:53:13.000
It was quite often that you might go to law to, get that sorted out. The 2 money bottles, they're quite quite sweet and they are, they're Victorian, they're about the size of jam jars.

00:53:13.000 --> 00:53:22.000
And there are not many of them out there. And I've never actually physically seen when I outside a museum.

00:53:22.000 --> 00:53:31.000
Pin money was very much more kind of something you get in a little bag. You know, you be handed it, use a few shillings in your opinion.

00:53:31.000 --> 00:53:40.000
In some cases, there is certainly evidence to suggest that women would, would be given it alongside housekeeping money.

00:53:40.000 --> 00:53:46.000
So you'd have your housekeeping money and begin your PIN money at the same time and it would be cash.

00:53:46.000 --> 00:53:58.000
The one the jars I think I'm intended to be tips you know, as I mentioned about if you If you had good service, then you might leave a penny or 2 for the wife of the man who produced it.

00:53:58.000 --> 00:54:05.000
Okay. We'll hope that answers your questions, and Suzy. Now, got another question.

00:54:05.000 --> 00:54:16.000
I've got a question from Elizabeth. Do we know the original origin of the name Bodkin for a thick needle?

00:54:16.000 --> 00:54:22.000
I don't actually I'm gonna make a note of that because that's something I'm fairly certain that I can, I can.

00:54:22.000 --> 00:54:29.000
Flying out. But it's one of those, it's going to be a contraction.

00:54:29.000 --> 00:54:37.000
Some kind of something else. You remember I mentioned the names of the long double whites, the blanket pins.

00:54:37.000 --> 00:54:44.000
That some of them are called corkins and they

00:54:44.000 --> 00:54:51.000
So I'm gonna guess that Bob Kin, Ken is usually one of those things like, at in France.

00:54:51.000 --> 00:55:03.000
You know, if you, yeah, when we. Talk about something being smaller. It's what it's used in KIND, it's the same thing, it's, you know, it's connected to child, but it must be something.

00:55:03.000 --> 00:55:04.000
That's maybe a question we can maybe take a and have a look. Yeah.

00:55:04.000 --> 00:55:10.000
Yeah, okay, that one away. Because I mean, that must be somewhere in my notes, but, I've made, I've made a note for my homework, Miss.

00:55:10.000 --> 00:55:21.000
Okay. Okay, now let me see what else we have. We've got lots of lots of comments here that I'll make sure get passed on to you, Ali.

00:55:21.000 --> 00:55:31.000
Lots of interesting things here. Let me just see if there is anything I have missed. In terms of questions.

00:55:31.000 --> 00:55:41.000
And. I, oh, here we are. Right, some cattle. And well, I think we'll finish up with this one.

00:55:41.000 --> 00:55:48.000
We have the expression pins and needles when we get that feeling in our fingers and toes with circulation.

00:55:48.000 --> 00:55:58.000
Was this coined by the garment workers? Or PIN in needle makers. In terms of the, you know, origins of that.

00:55:58.000 --> 00:55:59.000
Seeing, cause we see it a lot, don't we?

00:55:59.000 --> 00:56:08.000
I I wouldn't imagine so I would imagine that it has more to do with what we were talking about earlier about the feeling of being hit picked by pins.

00:56:08.000 --> 00:56:09.000

00:56:09.000 --> 00:56:13.000
He's everybody had that experience. So when. A medical person saying, well, what is it you're feeling?

00:56:13.000 --> 00:56:17.000
There tell what it's like. When I'm being pricked by pins and needles.

00:56:17.000 --> 00:56:28.000
And so I imagine that's probably, I don't think the This seems to season millennis.

00:56:28.000 --> 00:56:31.000
Would have come up with that race. Yeah. No, I don't think so.

00:56:31.000 --> 00:56:34.000
Okay, right. We are just about out of time, folks. And thanks again, Ali.

00:56:34.000 --> 00:56:50.000
And that was really, really fascinating and who knew it was such a back story to. You These everyday items that you have in the back of a drawer somewhere that you don't really think that hard about.

00:56:50.000 --> 00:56:51.000
Most of the time.

00:56:51.000 --> 00:57:00.000
Well, it is one of the reasons why I got into this was thinking about those things because You do take some things for granted.

00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:11.000
And then when you kind of follow up on it do you think hang on a second that's really interesting I found out a really interesting fact about T for my.

00:57:11.000 --> 00:57:19.000
My course in there in the summer. Which I I will share with you because it's so interesting.

00:57:19.000 --> 00:57:26.000
Do you know when you're when you're being posh and you're drinking your tea, why you stick your little finger around?

00:57:26.000 --> 00:57:36.000
Well, the reason is that Queen Anne, who was one of the first noted pee, the tea drinkers in history, and broke her finger in, you know, hunting accident.

00:57:36.000 --> 00:57:45.000
So when she picked up a teacup she could only do it holding one finger out. So of course everybody had to copy because she was the queen and then that's how it's stuck.

00:57:45.000 --> 00:57:47.000

00:57:47.000 --> 00:57:50.000
Was there you go, and an extra little fact for you there everybody.